Why ESO did not turn out to be what people wanted.

rawne1980b16_ESO

txfeinbergsub17_ESO wrote: »

And I say you are WRONG! I have played almost every MMO that has come out, and after the first month a bunch of whiners are gone. That itself improves the game immensely without even having to make a change to the software.

Allow me to elaborate.

Ultima forums ... actually not too bad.
Everquest forums ... full of whining and moaning, has been since day one.
DAoC forums ... meh, they were okay.
Everquest 2 forums ... bwahaha, they are terrible.
WoW forums ... have always been awful.
AoC forums ... the less said the better.
Rift forums ... full of whining since beta.
SWTOR forums ... full of whining since beta.
WAR forums ... well, I think they had one maybe 2 good days in the whole time before they shut. Other than that, full of whining since beta.
TERA forums ... oh look, more whining.
Aion forums ... whining.

I see a pattern forming.

I had to stop using some of those forums, I just couldn't force myself to read them anymore. Some I still hover around on for giggles.

And I just noticed the double post, I do apologise.

Laura

rawne1980b16_ESO wrote: »

txfeinbergsub17_ESO wrote: »

And I say you are WRONG! I have played almost every MMO that has come out, and after the first month a bunch of whiners are gone. That itself improves the game immensely without even having to make a change to the software.

Allow me to elaborate.

Ultima forums ... actually not too bad.
Everquest forums ... full of whining and moaning, has been since day one.
DAoC forums ... meh, they were okay.
Everquest 2 forums ... bwahaha, they are terrible.
WoW forums ... have always been awful.
AoC forums ... the less said the better.
Rift forums ... full of whining since beta.
SWTOR forums ... full of whining since beta.
WAR forums ... well, I think they had one maybe 2 good days in the whole time before they shut. Other than that, full of whining since beta.
TERA forums ... oh look, more whining.
Aion forums ... whining.

I see a pattern forming.

I had to stop using some of those forums, I just couldn't force myself to read them anymore. Some I still hover around on for giggles.

And I just noticed the double post, I do apologise.

I agree with all that except original EQ. Back in the early days it was amazing and people actually use to have detailed political and philosophical debates that were actually thought provoking. I didn't play DAoC and I didn't play EQ2 enough to care to get on the forums so I can't speak to that. Everything else you said was right on target.

I always felt it was because WoW made MMOs more accessible and thus you had a larger pool of people interested in these games. Of course the whiners and idiots are going to post more so because there are more of them you will see more.

Greydog

Actually, I place the blame on the anonymity of the internet itself. When there is no personal recourse people revert to who they really want to be. I don't think it really matters what the debate is actually about.

rawne1980b16_ESO

Laura wrote: »

I agree with all that except original EQ. Back in the early days it was amazing and people actually use to have detailed political and philosophical debates that were actually thought provoking. I didn't play DAoC and I didn't play EQ2 enough to care to get on the forums so I can't speak to that. Everything else you said was right on target.

I always felt it was because WoW made MMOs more accessible and thus you had a larger pool of people interested in these games. Of course the whiners and idiots are going to post more so because there are more of them you will see more.

I admit I was incredibly late to the Everquest party so I didn't see it in it's glory days.

I know the UO forums weren't too bad so i'll assume EQ was okay when MMO's were still niche, going by what you say.

So it probably did have a lot to do with MMO's being opened up for a hell of a lot more people.

Plus the internet was still pretty new.

BrassRazoo

I think this game is a great Elder Scrolls game.
I am enjoying it, and I see many online that are as well.
I guess we all have our own opinion.

Mortelus

BrassRazoo wrote: »

I think this game is a great Elder Scrolls game.
I am enjoying it, and I see many online that are as well.
I guess we all have our own opinion.

Agree, good game, that, as long as Zeni don't cave-in to pressure, will only get better. It's still a newborn MMO.

SuperScrubby

Yea but news flash they have been giving in since the game launched even before launch they gave in.

Mortelus

SuperScrubby wrote: »

Yea but news flash they have been giving in since the game launched even before launch they gave in.

What have they given into?

SuperScrubby

Dungeon exp was nerfed pretty quick, and I believe the kill 20 in PvP was either nerfed in early access or right at launch. They gutted the UI before the game went into early access to "even" out the playing fields. There are more examples, but the point is that EA was great aside from some bugs and from there they've been bumbling through "fixes" like a blind possum in a maze.

Mortelus

SuperScrubby wrote: »

Dungeon exp was nerfed pretty quick, and I believe the kill 20 in PvP was either nerfed in early access or right at launch. They gutted the UI before the game went into early access to "even" out the playing fields. There are more examples, but the point is that EA was great aside from some bugs and from there they've been bumbling through "fixes" like a blind possum in a maze.

I was in EA and haven't really seen anything other than them trying to fix broken things, or adjust some numbers or difficulties here and there.

The Major mechanics they have stuck by.

Point being, as long as they don't cave to the masses of 'make this wow' or anything and keep inline to what they originally said with, crafting, immersion etc... I can only see good things for this game.

Greydog

Mortelus wrote: »

The Major mechanics they have stuck by.

lol ...and that bugs me

txfeinbergsub17_ESO

Mortelus wrote: »

SuperScrubby wrote: »

Yea but news flash they have been giving in since the game launched even before launch they gave in.

What have they given into?

Starter islands being too "linear" so changing game to skip them.

Mortelus

txfeinbergsub17_ESO wrote: »

Mortelus wrote: »

SuperScrubby wrote: »

Yea but news flash they have been giving in since the game launched even before launch they gave in.

What have they given into?

Starter islands being too "linear" so changing game to skip them.

Yeah that was a strange decision I agree. Starter Islands are meant to be, well a tutorial place.

fredarbonab14_ESO

This yet-another 'State of the Game Discussion" thread is under
1.General Discussion - English;
2 Player Helping Players;
3-New Player Questions (being used for General Discussion because there is no other place to go with it).

This convoluted path gives total license for chaos.

I mean ZOS who named and designed these structure and headings? Could you do us a little favor; ~ORDER~ whomever is in charge of these forums to change these nonsensical headings and structure tomorrow morning, before they go to lunch. It will only take them but 1 hour.

No sense fighting the obvious - they are awful and the fact it went through someone's brain there as a good structure, should speak volumes of how far their brain is from basic common sense. Besides they are bad for business!

/my first and last tantrum I promise

phoenixangel

It all boils down to paying monthly. With it comes a certain set of expectations that "free" games do not have. Immediately maintenance times draw fire, the way the game is designed draws fire, questing and dungeons draw fire, everything is under scrutiny because players feel that in some way that $15 a month must be justified. Sure, servers need cost, but these are the last items on the consumer's mind.

So I personally feel that the devs are doing a great job, but they won't get credit for it precisely because people start comparing, and rightfully so because $15 a month will always be on everyone's minds. So I think the devs have to think about how to move forward in the future. I have confidence they will find the right way out.

Meanwhile crazy players like me will continue enjoying the game regardless of all the qq out there [While having a 250ms ping from halfway across the world lol, with half my play time cut off due to maintenance. So before you claim you can be worse off than me in terms of quality of life in game.......]

Mortelus

But you see this kind of complaining in F2P games also, not enough content, content not what I wanted, etc...

Agree maintenance times could be better for those of us on the other side of the globe. But that's not entirely Zeni's fault.

Maintenance is a must, and they have to be more compliant with where their servers are located. But they could push the times to earlier in the morning say 4am-7am or something. Least then being 8+ hours in Beijing, I could have some evening time.

But either way it's never going to be ideal for us until the create more servers over here.

txfeinbergsub17_ESO

phoenixangel wrote: »

It all boils down to paying monthly. With it comes a certain set of expectations that "free" games do not have. Immediately maintenance times draw fire, the way the game is designed draws fire, questing and dungeons draw fire, everything is under scrutiny because players feel that in some way that $15 a month must be justified. Sure, servers need cost, but these are the last items on the consumer's mind.

So I personally feel that the devs are doing a great job, but they won't get credit for it precisely because people start comparing, and rightfully so because $15 a month will always be on everyone's minds. So I think the devs have to think about how to move forward in the future. I have confidence they will find the right way out.

Meanwhile crazy players like me will continue enjoying the game regardless of all the qq out there [While having a 250ms ping from halfway across the world lol, with half my play time cut off due to maintenance. So before you claim you can be worse off than me in terms of quality of life in game.......]

I guess you have a point. I mean I expect f2p games to be complete and utter crap, and I have not been disappointed in that view.

Lalai

Greydog wrote: »

But are they really "haters" ..or is it possible that they come here to simply voice their displeasure because this is supposed to be the place for such discussion?

You said your self that this is a problem on both sides and I wholeheartedly agree with that. Why place the label, why suggest that they leave or be ignored?

I can guarantee you that while life may be easier, it is certainly not better without opposing viewpoints.

Not everyone that voices criticism is a hater, but that doesn't mean the "haters" don't exist (though honestly I kinda hate labeling people, I'd rather say there are quite a few people who aren't being constructive at all).

I'm often here and there defending the game but I've had criticisms of it as well. The things I'm defending are aspects I find fun and don't want to change. I don't mind people offering suggestions or saying aspects they don't like. All to often though the negative threads are something along the lines of "this game sucks, it's going F2P, it's not a TES/MMO game, you guys should hate it as much as I do" with nothing really constructive in them.

I've seen a good many threads where most people will be civil, and folks just say they disagree but don't name call or anything.. until the negative person turns around and starts calling people fanboys because they don't agree with his opinion, or because they expressed that they personally did not run into a bug being discussed. Likewise, I've seen threads where people are calling a constructive person an idiot for disagreeing and the like (though admittedly I see less of those than I do of folks throwing around the word fanboy by a long shot).

I haven't really seen any actual discussion from either side. It's just a whole lot of people stating their opinion, often times as if it were fact. Everyone wants the game to fit their idea of fun, which is understandable.. and no one wants to sacrifice what they consider fun for another person, which is also kinda understandable.

zaria

Mortelus wrote: »

SuperScrubby wrote: »

Dungeon exp was nerfed pretty quick, and I believe the kill 20 in PvP was either nerfed in early access or right at launch. They gutted the UI before the game went into early access to "even" out the playing fields. There are more examples, but the point is that EA was great aside from some bugs and from there they've been bumbling through "fixes" like a blind possum in a maze.

I was in EA and haven't really seen anything other than them trying to fix broken things, or adjust some numbers or difficulties here and there.

The Major mechanics they have stuck by.

Point being, as long as they don't cave to the masses of 'make this wow' or anything and keep inline to what they originally said with, crafting, immersion etc... I can only see good things for this game.

The kill 20 in PvP was supposed to be daily but was unlimited as in beta.
Now they increases xp gain in PvP and some other places. Might be they wanted to slow down VR leveling until the we get an real endgame.

Mortelus

zaria wrote: »

Mortelus wrote: »

SuperScrubby wrote: »

Dungeon exp was nerfed pretty quick, and I believe the kill 20 in PvP was either nerfed in early access or right at launch. They gutted the UI before the game went into early access to "even" out the playing fields. There are more examples, but the point is that EA was great aside from some bugs and from there they've been bumbling through "fixes" like a blind possum in a maze.

I was in EA and haven't really seen anything other than them trying to fix broken things, or adjust some numbers or difficulties here and there.

The Major mechanics they have stuck by.

Point being, as long as they don't cave to the masses of 'make this wow' or anything and keep inline to what they originally said with, crafting, immersion etc... I can only see good things for this game.

The kill 20 in PvP was supposed to be daily but was unlimited as in beta.
Now they increases xp gain in PvP and some other places. Might be they wanted to slow down VR leveling until the we get an real endgame.

I see. Was the XP really low in PvP then? I heard people complaining about it, and I guess it is fair enough as people may want to level purely by PvP. Do they have an option to turn of XP in PvP?

XP is fine in PvE, I like the fact that you can farm mobs for hide (and you need to do that a lot to get any) and not really level much.

Makkir

If you don't like TESO, can I have all your stuff?

NextGame

The game feels more like Daggerfall to me than the subsequent 3 games, and that's good with me.

However the number of progression blocking bugs that simply shouldn't have been there for launch, the fact that 1 class is best for 2 roles and can do the third (sorcerer) and nightblade might as well not have bothered even turning up for the party, along with some absurdly pathetic design decisions across the board (No AH, 5 skill slots, this forum layout etc), as well as customer disregarding operational decisions in prime time maintenance outages, are serious detractors from this game.

zaria

Mortelus wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

Mortelus wrote: »

SuperScrubby wrote: »

Dungeon exp was nerfed pretty quick, and I believe the kill 20 in PvP was either nerfed in early access or right at launch. They gutted the UI before the game went into early access to "even" out the playing fields. There are more examples, but the point is that EA was great aside from some bugs and from there they've been bumbling through "fixes" like a blind possum in a maze.

I was in EA and haven't really seen anything other than them trying to fix broken things, or adjust some numbers or difficulties here and there.

The Major mechanics they have stuck by.

Point being, as long as they don't cave to the masses of 'make this wow' or anything and keep inline to what they originally said with, crafting, immersion etc... I can only see good things for this game.

The kill 20 in PvP was supposed to be daily but was unlimited as in beta.
Now they increases xp gain in PvP and some other places. Might be they wanted to slow down VR leveling until the we get an real endgame.

I see. Was the XP really low in PvP then? I heard people complaining about it, and I guess it is fair enough as people may want to level purely by PvP. Do they have an option to turn of XP in PvP?

XP is fine in PvE, I like the fact that you can farm mobs for hide (and you need to do that a lot to get any) and not really level much.

You don't get much xp for each kill but in large fights in.a large group you can easy be credited hundreds of kills. Pretty unbalanced they should change it so large fights gave less but small ones more than today.

mutharex

Sidney wrote: »

txfeinbergsub17_ESO wrote: »

This is the New Players Helping Players forum. So coming here to voice their opinion isn't exactly constructive or to the purpose of this forum and immediately turns off a lot of new players that just need help.

Good point on scaring off new players. How do we get a green to move the thread over to CS?

If 50 people report the thread and OP, it will be moved. Instead of feeding trolls and whiners

Archie

While there are some MMO aspects that really need to be implemented. ESO is an excellent MMO with fast and challenging combat, open combination skills and unique character builds, groundbreaking graphics on medium systems, deep and beatiful crafting system, etc. It has taken the stuff that worked in past MMOs and combined them for best player experience IMHO.

What is sorely missing is dps reports (this missing is totaly unacceptable), rp reports (I am clapping but it doesn't say what I am doing on local status, seriously?), buffs and dots reports (I can not see anything until I open character but when I do so I can not see numerical), hotbar limitation, quick round bar is pathetic, etc. Team loot system is missing, everybody takes everything?

Knootewoot

Odd title this topic had, since TESO is become what i wanted

Phantorang

Why is it that some think you want Skyrim Online just because you are disappointed in certain aspects of the game?

Why is it that some claim its to hard to put interesting solo play into an MMO?
It is possible to add solo content similar to a solo game, its been done in other MMOs and from a game in 2014, one would think it would take many steps beyond what was possible with MMOs launched 10 years ago.
Why would it be so hard to make the quests actually make you feel an accomplishment, except the story quests?

Just because it is an MMO, it doesnt mean certain aspects have to be bad, and just because someone is disappointed, it doesnt mean they expected Skyrim Online.

There is no officer chat, and it is no way to mail the whole guild, thats other features one would think should be in place before they launch an MMO.

Lalai

Archie wrote: »

What is sorely missing is dps reports (this missing is totaly unacceptable), rp reports (I am clapping but it doesn't say what I am doing on local status, seriously?), buffs and dots reports (I can not see anything until I open character but when I do so I can not see numerical), hotbar limitation, quick round bar is pathetic, etc. Team loot system is missing, everybody takes everything?

There are addons available from Curse and esoui that give you the reports you're looking for as far as meters for things, or having say.. buffs listed on your screen. There are also addons that change what show up in chat (so you can see things that were looted, or emotes). Personally I don't like dps reports because they usually get abused.. and this game is more about interrupting/blocking then just pwning everything with dps. I also like my UI minimal, in every other game I've downloaded addons to shrink/remove things.. so it's nice that this game starts minimal and then lets folks add what they want to personalize.

Hotbar limitation is an aspect of game play. Have to pick what you have access to prior to a fight starting. I actually prefer it this way to having 4 different hotbars on my screen and all. Just a personal preference though.

As far as loot goes, aside from chests (which is being addressed) everyone's loot is individual. So the stuff you see on a mob is instanced to you, and team members will have stuff instanced to them. After patch 1.1 (the one adding Craglorn) dungeon chests in group dungeons will also net loot for all party members instead of just whoever loots them.

mutharex

Funny how most of the stuff that is 'sorely missing' is exactly what others want to avoid and why they like TESO....

Some people like to have fun, 'incredibile dictu', and their fun is an immersive experience, not some soul sucking minmaxing hell.

Phantorang

Mortelus wrote: »

But you see this kind of complaining in F2P games also, not enough content, content not what I wanted, etc...

Agree maintenance times could be better for those of us on the other side of the globe. But that's not entirely Zeni's fault.

Maintenance is a must, and they have to be more compliant with where their servers are located. But they could push the times to earlier in the morning say 4am-7am or something. Least then being 8+ hours in Beijing, I could have some evening time.

But either way it's never going to be ideal for us until the create more servers over here.

The day ESO goes f2p is the day the game is judged a total failure in my opionion.

Someone has to pay for new content, the staff, and other general upkeep which applies to all MMOs.

I prefere to pay a monthly fee of 1 pack of cigs instead of paying for clothes, gold etc. F2P favours the players spending the most money, thats a bad system.