Tanks are not required for any current content and slow you down.

steinernein

You do plenty of DPS with bash, and puncture adds to overall damage, and if the tank is the one absorbing most of the damage the healer can swap in more DPS. It's pretty hard to tell until everyone has ran all the dungeons and done benchmarks. I just think that pure tanks who do nothing but survive and taunt are more or less extinct.

Xanxarib16_ESO

and yet that one taunt gives a 43% armor and spell res reduction on the boss! so why not use it? sure you can kite,hell you can even go without a healer and just 4 man dps them but then again, why would you, all i hear here is we dont need a tank, for tanks are bad at there job, well maybe dont pug a tank, like you dont want to pug a healer and you dont want to pug dps, for pugs are just that not worth it...

Varivox9

Xanxarib16_ESO wrote: »

and yet that one taunt gives a 43% armor and spell res reduction on the boss! so why not use it? sure you can kite,hell you can even go without a healer and just 4 man dps them but then again, why would you, all i hear here is we dont need a tank, for tanks are bad at there job, well maybe dont pug a tank, like you dont want to pug a healer and you dont want to pug dps, for pugs are just that not worth it...

It's not that they are bad, it's just that they aren't necessary. Puncture is great and all, but with current mechanics, why bother when you can get another full dps and do as well, if not better?

Gwarok

I run a DK also it's all about group Focused Fire with my Crowd Control using combination of Ferocious Leap, Empowering Chains, Choking Talons, Stone Giant, Ash Cloud, Shattering Rocks etc. "Tanks" (for lack of a better meaning) are a totally different breed of animal in ESO. I'm still at low(er) level, but I'm trying to build my character some what upon/around This Build w/ 2-2-1 set up I found.

Kayira

The typical tank is not needed in this game, however you definitely need one player with heavy armor, or the entire run is a waste of time.
A few days ago I went to do tempest island, and I was in a group with 2 nightblades and 1 sorcerer DD. This groups was not in the least viable, we wiped three times on the second boss until I called it quit, because none of these people could survive more then 3 hits and as a healer it was impossible to keep them alive.
A few hours later I ran it with 2 dps and a tank and we didn't even wipe once. Tanks are definitely useful and decrease the difficulty of a dungeon loads. You can't really say other players don't want tanks, or why do I see a lot of shouting in zone chat for tanks (and healers obv).
So dear tank players don't give up, because I love healing you compared to this medium armor people with no trait increasing the amount they get healed or damage taken.

zaria

Phranq wrote: »

This thread makes me want to cry, hehe. I have put all my time so far into playing a heavy armor, sword and board, dk tank and I've been thinking, sure it kindof sucks leveling up, but I will be needed when I get to high level dungeons... *sigh*

Tank is an role more than an specialized build, your task is to hold agro of the main boss so he don't go after less protected team members while not taking so much damage that the healer goes out of magica.
Secondary objectives is to do damage and hold agro on adds.
Same way as the healers job is to heal the party, doing damage is secondary.

If you have multiple melee fighters in heavy armor in group they will be able to do without an dedicated tank as long as one hold the boss.

Wifeaggro13

rdfarley89 wrote: »

Phranq wrote: »

This thread makes me want to cry, hehe. I have put all my time so far into playing a heavy armor, sword and board, dk tank and I've been thinking, sure it kindof sucks leveling up, but I will be needed when I get to high level dungeons... *sigh*

I have been playing a DK sword and board and as I said before I fully agree with this thread. I also don't have any trouble leveling, I could level up fairly quickly if I wanted to but I make it a goal to explore every single nook and cranny lol. Anyway I hate to hear that you feel that way and are having trouble but, do not feel too badly about it as I said tanks are a VERY useful utility, but not 100% needed. I think that makes it easier for people to group when they cannot find a tank or do not have a tank friend.

Quick tip, max out shield bash passives, and use shield bash a loit, it will tear things up, too bad they will probably nerf it at some point

the point is that DPS is 100% needed and heals are 100 % needed but the tank role though every class has access is not.Add in that a DK with a destro staff cant do the DPS a sorc or a NB does and the theory will become quite transparent if the encounters in craglorn require DPS checks. its a design flaw and not boding well for the longevity of this game for the community that likes the tank role.though it may not be as bad as GW2 its dancing the line way to close.

Wifeaggro13

Eccentric wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

Eccentric wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

Taunts last for maybe two hits.

Both Puncture and Inner Fire taunts for 15 seconds. Some bosses are immune to taunt though.

I like ESO's combat system, but boss/elite immunities are the biggest BS thing about it. Lack of cc abilities against bosses is the main reason tanks are largely ineffective. It's all about dps and group support.

This is the very essence in a Action Combat game. Instead of having an elite or boss locked onto a tank like most MMOs, they will telegraph their movement and your party would have to dodge and avoid the attacks. The tank can still either CC adds and debuff hostiles, or swap to 2nd skillset and do dps/heal/support.

Imho, this is the best way to play. If you don't like it, you should probably play another game, with a combat system more in line with what you like.

Unfortunately i think your right . and sadly quite a lot of people will. No one is saying the combat mechanics should be changed . what we are saying is make all of the roles useful not an after thought. CC is required, heals are required, DPS is required. tank is not thats a big difference from saying make it like wow. which is the usual fanboi response to the community wanting the game to get better

Sarius

biggest problem is armor/spell resi is, it is just ineffective in PvE a boss hits u for hm let s say 600 with u at armor softcap he still hits you for 550 one HoT or insta heal heals more anyway so noone cares what / how much armor u wear

mitigation is too low / u can get easily armor capped with light armor with the right spells of ur supporter/healer just block heavy attacks and interrupt casts and u have a easy life in any dungeon even without a tank

yes a DK "tank" makes trash a lot easier as of massive AoE dmg and Talons
but its more about his spells in general then having him wielding a shield

problem is in the current combat system u cant give heavy armor/spell resi a much stronger mitigation without making it OP in PvP

luna21560

Phranq wrote: »

This thread makes me want to cry, hehe. I have put all my time so far into playing a heavy armor, sword and board, dk tank and I've been thinking, sure it kindof sucks leveling up, but I will be needed when I get to high level dungeons... *sigh*

Same here - when i first started reading, i did a little *sigh* too..
I usually play a healer in other games, but for ESO i wanted to try something new.. so i decided to make a tank.
So far though I really like my 18 Temp. tank - she can take a beating and heal herself/the group a little if it's needed.
I think i'll keep going with this set up. One of the things i really enjoy about this game is you can really play however you want, and still be useful in a group.

Getorix

This is why I quit playing NWO shortly after getting to end game on my tank, all tanks were building for dps and very little damage reduction. Its a problem with all action combat games.

driosketch

Eccentric wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

Eccentric wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

Taunts last for maybe two hits.

Both Puncture and Inner Fire taunts for 15 seconds. Some bosses are immune to taunt though.

I like ESO's combat system, but boss/elite immunities are the biggest BS thing about it. Lack of cc abilities against bosses is the main reason tanks are largely ineffective. It's all about dps and group support.

This is the very essence in a Action Combat game. Instead of having an elite or boss locked onto a tank like most MMOs, they will telegraph their movement and your party would have to dodge and avoid the attacks. The tank can still either CC adds and debuff hostiles, or swap to 2nd skillset and do dps/heal/support.

Imho, this is the best way to play. If you don't like it, you should probably play another game, with a combat system more in line with what you like.

@Eccentric‌ I guess the part at the beginning where I said I like the combat was too subtle then? :P

I'm a TES player, not an MMO player, as well as a PTS beta tester. If I didn't like ESO's action based combat, I wouldn't be on the live game. It's not even the cc immunities by themselves, but you combine the box like collision they added late in development with the narrow FOV of first person mode and I run into a few issues. But one of those fixes is in the work already, and beside the point.

A tank's role is to impede the damage the rest of the team receives. I don't think allowing the effects of a skill, specific to the boss's type, to actuallly have an effect, or even just being able to snare it so a group member can retreat to heal is asking too much. (And I don't even play a tank. I'm a support/healer.)

Maverick827

This is why I quit GW2. I'm really not a fan of "action" or "trinity-less" MMOs. The group contnt just isn't challenging.

I've noticed tanking not being terribly required when random puggers would run ahead and charge in before I pulled. "Great, Johnny Impatient is going to get himself killed rushing in like that, and maybe the rest of us along wi - oh he lived fine. Ok..."

I'm not sure what end game I'm supposed to be looking forward to in this game if dungeons are facerollable. Like someone else said, we'll have to see what Craglorn brings.

Phranq

I just wanted to thank the guy that told me to use shield bash more often... I went back to the mini-dungeon I was having trouble with lastnight and I was able to plow right through it.. didn't even need to use ultimate on the boss.. You sir are a life saver.

Xanxarib16_ESO

man im lost at how bad the tanks are you have with you, a DK tank can if he want to dish out alot of dps in heavy armor and provide 43% spell res reduction and 65% armor reduction on bosses, on top of that he can pull around 500+ dps at veteran 10.

and saying a sorc or a NB can do more dps then a DK or templar is a joke. try and look at what a Templar dps in Medium or light armor can do and try and look at a DK in light or medium armor can do and you will start crying for a nerf, hell ppl all ready call for a nerf when it comes to the DK.


a tank makes everything easy, a lasy tank dont, but then again a lasy healer or a lasy dps do the same damage to a group, stop your pugs if its that bad, join a guild and play with you new guild members ...

problem fixed.

BKTHNDR

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

BKTHNDR wrote: »

As someone said above, the trinity isn't necessary. As long as every one in the group plays offensively and defensively when neccessary, you should have no problem clearing out any dungeon.

not what i was hoping for GW2 sucked . cheers and enjoy

Having played GW2 for about a year, I can safely say that dungeon runs in this game are nothing like those of GW2. The classes in this game allow for players to swap roles fluidly based on the situation. I play a Templar Mage. When the enemies aren't too tough, I'm in DPS mode with my destruction staff. When ish starts hitting the fan, mid-combat, I can switch to resto staff to keep the team alive.

GW2 doesn't offer that type of combat fluidity. It's mostly just a cluster-f with everyone dying their way to the end. This game handles dungeons way better.

Hearts

Theres one thing you should not get mixed up.. A tank is maybe not necessary but a Heavy Armor + Sword and Board is still a very good party member to have.
Not only can they absorb damage, making it easier for the healer, they can also taunt the boss away from the puny light armor pure sorcerer that is doing too much DPS and who will get one shotted / two shotted if attacked (basically me). They also decreases the enemy's armor and spell resistance, allowing DPS to do more damage.
Dont think of the tank as A tank in this game, hes more of a support guy, the guy that keeps the group organized when sh*t could have gone to hell.

Tanks arent useless here, youre saying that people who asks for tank are inexperienced, I might agree on that, but im also going to say that YOU are inexperienced.

Shaun98ca2

I think some GOOD tanks need to get together and create a TESO tanking guide. A lot of bad players are probably slotting a lot of defense and little to no DPS+CC. I think a good tank need 1/2 Defenses and then DPS+CC. How they go about filling that is up to the player. Tanks should also be ready to weapon swap to a DPS stance for a quick burst of DPS then back to tanking for bosses.

That's just me as a healer's perspective. The lack of a "GOOD TANK" in the dungeons is VERY noticeable and I have to spend more time healing and saving my own ass.

I guess the DPS need guides for grouping in dungeons too. Its not all about the DPS, CC is VERY needed.

Keiffo

Hearts wrote: »

Theres one thing you should not get mixed up.. A tank is maybe not necessary but a Heavy Armor + Sword and Board is still a very good party member to have.
Not only can they absorb damage, making it easier for the healer, they can also taunt the boss away from the puny light armor pure sorcerer that is doing too much DPS and who will get one shotted / two shotted if attacked (basically me). They also decreases the enemy's armor and spell resistance, allowing DPS to do more damage.
Dont think of the tank as A tank in this game, hes more of a support guy, the guy that keeps the group organized when sh*t could have gone to hell.

Tanks arent useless here, youre saying that people who asks for tank are inexperienced, I might agree on that, but im also going to say that YOU are inexperienced.

Just cleared 2 of the VR 6 to 10 dungeons without a single wipe and without a tank in the group. I was DPS, my friend was heal/DPS hybrid and there were 2x strangers who were also DPS. We had 2 deaths in both dungeons combined, the third dungeon was glitched so we couldn't enter a door past the first boss. Even without knowing the boss mechanics, absolutely no need for a tank.

You are trying to say the tank is the guy who keeps the group organised? I guess you must have a tank friend you admire, and think he is doing something useful. Everybody has CC, that is all anybody needs for trash, and the boss fights only require a defensive skill SOMETIMES thrown on the bar, like Bone Shield, it wins every fight. Taunts are useless. Sure, with the melee taunt you can reduce an opponent's armour, but it's not a better bonus than simply replacing the tag-along meat shield with a decent DPS.

Not a single fight in this game requires a tank, I've just proven it by clearing the first 3 dungeons so many times I went from VR1 to VR6, and now I'm going to clear the next 3 over and over without a tank until VR10.

If anybody happens to die because they get surprised by a boss mechanic, they resurrect and if they're not a complete idiot, they will know exactly what to change in order to continue through the dungeon.

Oh and nobody 'holds a group together' in this game, it's so easy in every aspect. No group falls apart, except for the ones that happen to consist of 4 people making threads about the veteran dungeons being 'hard'.

Keiffo

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

I think some GOOD tanks need to get together and create a TESO tanking guide. A lot of bad players are probably slotting a lot of defense and little to no DPS+CC. I think a good tank need 1/2 Defenses and then DPS+CC. How they go about filling that is up to the player. Tanks should also be ready to weapon swap to a DPS stance for a quick burst of DPS then back to tanking for bosses.

That's just me as a healer's perspective. The lack of a "GOOD TANK" in the dungeons is VERY noticeable and I have to spend more time healing and saving my own ass.

I guess the DPS need guides for grouping in dungeons too. Its not all about the DPS, CC is VERY needed.

But for every single veteran dungeon (the highest level content currently in the game) the only 'tank' anybody ever needs is a DPS who puts a defensive utility skill on his bar for a VERY small amount of boss fights. That is it. The healer could even turn the whole group into tanks with Bone Shield. Tanks are not needed here. Nothing PVE wise is strong enough to warrant a tanky player, when you can overcharge your armour/resistance by activating one of the many defensive buffer skills.

Medwin

Tanks have shield bash which is crazy strong, you can have a tank that does pretty good DPS. However I was doing the level 35 dungeons as a Nightblade healer without a tank and we actually dropped to 3 party members yet we did fine, my NB is pretty tanky so I was able to out heal most of the agro I got with ease. Honestly I just prefer having someone there that is a "tank" even if they are not really a tank.

Xanxarib16_ESO

Keiffo wrote: »

Hearts wrote: »

Theres one thing you should not get mixed up.. A tank is maybe not necessary but a Heavy Armor + Sword and Board is still a very good party member to have.
Not only can they absorb damage, making it easier for the healer, they can also taunt the boss away from the puny light armor pure sorcerer that is doing too much DPS and who will get one shotted / two shotted if attacked (basically me). They also decreases the enemy's armor and spell resistance, allowing DPS to do more damage.
Dont think of the tank as A tank in this game, hes more of a support guy, the guy that keeps the group organized when sh*t could have gone to hell.

Tanks arent useless here, youre saying that people who asks for tank are inexperienced, I might agree on that, but im also going to say that YOU are inexperienced.

Just cleared 2 of the VR 6 to 10 dungeons without a single wipe and without a tank in the group. I was DPS, my friend was heal/DPS hybrid and there were 2x strangers who were also DPS. We had 2 deaths in both dungeons combined, the third dungeon was glitched so we couldn't enter a door past the first boss. Even without knowing the boss mechanics, absolutely no need for a tank.

You are trying to say the tank is the guy who keeps the group organised? I guess you must have a tank friend you admire, and think he is doing something useful. Everybody has CC, that is all anybody needs for trash, and the boss fights only require a defensive skill SOMETIMES thrown on the bar, like Bone Shield, it wins every fight. Taunts are useless. Sure, with the melee taunt you can reduce an opponent's armour, but it's not a better bonus than simply replacing the tag-along meat shield with a decent DPS.

Not a single fight in this game requires a tank, I've just proven it by clearing the first 3 dungeons so many times I went from VR1 to VR6, and now I'm going to clear the next 3 over and over without a tank until VR10.

If anybody happens to die because they get surprised by a boss mechanic, they resurrect and if they're not a complete idiot, they will know exactly what to change in order to continue through the dungeon.

Oh and nobody 'holds a group together' in this game, it's so easy in every aspect. No group falls apart, except for the ones that happen to consist of 4 people making threads about the veteran dungeons being 'hard'.

and you sir. dont get what a "Tank" brings to the table, if you cant get that a SnS taunt can give your dps 43% more damage from either class or weapon skills then you really should take a look at the skills again...

a dk can bring 43% and 40% armor reduction to a fight toal it to ~60% armor reduction and 43% spell res reduction. your two dps and your healer should now do the same damage as 3 dps classes would do. and you still have the tanks damage to take into account! thats the dps alone. then you have the to get that the boss are more or less locked down in one place making it better for the dps to keep there smal rotation up and not waste resources on stupid *** like block and dogde and sprinting.

not to mention the healer dont have to conserver all the mana for healing but can dps on top of that.

so instead of pointing fingers and raise yourslef to a great player saying tanks are slowing down content maybe you should L2P and stop this nonsence


PS. if you farmed Vr1 to VR6 by completing dungeons you are full of ***. you can abuse boss add mechanic like Darkshade. and that is not runing dungeons

PPS. Questing is the fastest way to xp in VR content unless you want to abuse the dungeons like Darkshade.

the rest of you dont listen to Keiffo, he dont know what a "tank" brings to this game. a tank is not just a meatshield, its a support that will increase the groups dps and reduce healing required, the tank will also control the boss and most of the adds with Taunt and CC.

Hearts

Keiffo wrote: »

Hearts wrote: »

Theres one thing you should not get mixed up.. A tank is maybe not necessary but a Heavy Armor + Sword and Board is still a very good party member to have.
Not only can they absorb damage, making it easier for the healer, they can also taunt the boss away from the puny light armor pure sorcerer that is doing too much DPS and who will get one shotted / two shotted if attacked (basically me). They also decreases the enemy's armor and spell resistance, allowing DPS to do more damage.
Dont think of the tank as A tank in this game, hes more of a support guy, the guy that keeps the group organized when sh*t could have gone to hell.

Tanks arent useless here, youre saying that people who asks for tank are inexperienced, I might agree on that, but im also going to say that YOU are inexperienced.

Just cleared 2 of the VR 6 to 10 dungeons without a single wipe and without a tank in the group. I was DPS, my friend was heal/DPS hybrid and there were 2x strangers who were also DPS. We had 2 deaths in both dungeons combined, the third dungeon was glitched so we couldn't enter a door past the first boss. Even without knowing the boss mechanics, absolutely no need for a tank.

You are trying to say the tank is the guy who keeps the group organised? I guess you must have a tank friend you admire, and think he is doing something useful. Everybody has CC, that is all anybody needs for trash, and the boss fights only require a defensive skill SOMETIMES thrown on the bar, like Bone Shield, it wins every fight. Taunts are useless. Sure, with the melee taunt you can reduce an opponent's armour, but it's not a better bonus than simply replacing the tag-along meat shield with a decent DPS.

Not a single fight in this game requires a tank, I've just proven it by clearing the first 3 dungeons so many times I went from VR1 to VR6, and now I'm going to clear the next 3 over and over without a tank until VR10.

If anybody happens to die because they get surprised by a boss mechanic, they resurrect and if they're not a complete idiot, they will know exactly what to change in order to continue through the dungeon.

Oh and nobody 'holds a group together' in this game, it's so easy in every aspect. No group falls apart, except for the ones that happen to consist of 4 people making threads about the veteran dungeons being 'hard'.

Did you read anything I said?
A tank in this game is not the same thing as a tank in other games.
A tank CAN keep the group organized if stuff are going to hell, if the Daedroth in Banished Cells starts casting his fire spell on the caster in the middle of the dungeon, that part of the dungeon becomes forever unusable, the fire will spread inconsistently and things will get disorganized, thats just one example. If the Boss is coming for me and punches me once then im dead/almost dead, I cant tank that and if theres no one to taunt the boss away from me then im definitely dead.
The "tank" makes things easier for the healer and increases DPS for others, a Sword and Board is a very valid use for DPS, if you know how to weave that is.
Also I dont have any "tank friend" who i admire... I just realize that the tank in this game isnt like a tank in WoW...
Ofcourse you can beat the dungeons without a tank, but a tank isnt necessarily useless here, a tank is still helpful, you just have to get rid of the "tank" stereotype from your head and re-evaluate what a tank does in this game.
And I have a question, do you have the 20 minute achievement for the dungeons? Or have you gotten the final boss achievement that is different from the rest?

Divayith

You all must be finding uber pro groups. I'm VR4 and spent close to 3 hours yesterday just trying to run Grotto. Every group I was in had the same problems. Multiple wipes on trash and bosses. With the group finally falling apart in WoW style arguments, name calling and rage quits. When I cleared Banished Cells there were many wipes and the run took close to 2 hours, same with Spindleclutch. The last time I did Spindleclutch the group spent close to an hour working on the final boss alone. Now the mechanics of the bosses are not terribly complex, and can easily be figured out. What I enjoy is the fight mechanics, what is starting to wear thin is my patience for 2-3 hour dungeon runs with 4-5k repair bills. Maybe I'm just that unlucky in finding groups. Or I'm just not in the right guilds.

Wifeaggro13

Hearts wrote: »

Keiffo wrote: »

Hearts wrote: »

Theres one thing you should not get mixed up.. A tank is maybe not necessary but a Heavy Armor + Sword and Board is still a very good party member to have.
Not only can they absorb damage, making it easier for the healer, they can also taunt the boss away from the puny light armor pure sorcerer that is doing too much DPS and who will get one shotted / two shotted if attacked (basically me). They also decreases the enemy's armor and spell resistance, allowing DPS to do more damage.
Dont think of the tank as A tank in this game, hes more of a support guy, the guy that keeps the group organized when sh*t could have gone to hell.

Tanks arent useless here, youre saying that people who asks for tank are inexperienced, I might agree on that, but im also going to say that YOU are inexperienced.

Just cleared 2 of the VR 6 to 10 dungeons without a single wipe and without a tank in the group. I was DPS, my friend was heal/DPS hybrid and there were 2x strangers who were also DPS. We had 2 deaths in both dungeons combined, the third dungeon was glitched so we couldn't enter a door past the first boss. Even without knowing the boss mechanics, absolutely no need for a tank.

You are trying to say the tank is the guy who keeps the group organised? I guess you must have a tank friend you admire, and think he is doing something useful. Everybody has CC, that is all anybody needs for trash, and the boss fights only require a defensive skill SOMETIMES thrown on the bar, like Bone Shield, it wins every fight. Taunts are useless. Sure, with the melee taunt you can reduce an opponent's armour, but it's not a better bonus than simply replacing the tag-along meat shield with a decent DPS.

Not a single fight in this game requires a tank, I've just proven it by clearing the first 3 dungeons so many times I went from VR1 to VR6, and now I'm going to clear the next 3 over and over without a tank until VR10.

If anybody happens to die because they get surprised by a boss mechanic, they resurrect and if they're not a complete idiot, they will know exactly what to change in order to continue through the dungeon.

Oh and nobody 'holds a group together' in this game, it's so easy in every aspect. No group falls apart, except for the ones that happen to consist of 4 people making threads about the veteran dungeons being 'hard'.

Did you read anything I said?
A tank in this game is not the same thing as a tank in other games.
A tank CAN keep the group organized if stuff are going to hell, if the Daedroth in Banished Cells starts casting his fire spell on the caster in the middle of the dungeon, that part of the dungeon becomes forever unusable, the fire will spread inconsistently and things will get disorganized, thats just one example. If the Boss is coming for me and punches me once then im dead/almost dead, I cant tank that and if theres no one to taunt the boss away from me then im definitely dead.
The "tank" makes things easier for the healer and increases DPS for others, a Sword and Board is a very valid use for DPS, if you know how to weave that is.
Also I dont have any "tank friend" who i admire... I just realize that the tank in this game isnt like a tank in WoW...
Ofcourse you can beat the dungeons without a tank, but a tank isnt necessarily useless here, a tank is still helpful, you just have to get rid of the "tank" stereotype from your head and re-evaluate what a tank does in this game.
And I have a question, do you have the 20 minute achievement for the dungeons? Or have you gotten the final boss achievement that is different from the rest?

completely understood but i think what we need to shine the light on is there is an imbalance that needs to be addressed . in all the Veteran dungeons you can go in without a tank and be successful. But you could not go in with out a healer and be successful, you could not go in with out DPS and be successful just remove healing and call it Guild scrolls 3 online. Its a matter of mechanics and design that needs to be tweaked a bit. Group encounters should be a well balanced and require team work from all rolls. the beauty of ESO is that any class can fill any the role or at least thats what they advertised. I for one have adjusted to the tanking style in ESO its very active . lots of CC and moving from mob to mob , lots of aoe. The problem is from what ive seen once players aquire end game gear and the DPS is through the roof all thats required is DPS and avoiding mechanics Traditional tank builds do not put out DPS that can compete .the gap gets a bit wider when you compare some of the classes abilites being melee only . proper DPS dynamics require a mix of weapons and class abilities. you cant go and DPS with just weapon skills alone.No one is saying make tanking like WOW what i am saying is make the role viable and useful in the end game mechanics. Either up spike damage for the fully geared DPS and reduce it for the heavy plate wearers or put some CC that bosses cant resist in some of the tanking skill lines.something needs to be adjusted before we have the No rogues allowed like rift did at launch by not properly balancing the trees and combat dynamics.

BrassRazoo

I like the fact that a specialist Tank or Healer or anything for that matter may not be required.
There is nothing worse than playing a game that makes it basically impossible to complete a raid unless you have a specific class / build.
This is what ends up holding games back or forcing smaller Guilds / Groups to either stop playing or join a bigger crew who can monopolise gear / end game loot.
This game seems to enable a "Plan B" in your character that is still very effective depending on skills you have unlocked, rotations, and player skill, and I find it rather refreshing.

Wifeaggro13

BrassRazoo wrote: »

I like the fact that a specialist Tank or Healer or anything for that matter may not be required.
There is nothing worse than playing a game that makes it basically impossible to complete a raid unless you have a specific class / build.
This is what ends up holding games back or forcing smaller Guilds / Groups to either stop playing or join a bigger crew who can monopolise gear / end game loot.
This game seems to enable a "Plan B" in your character that is still very effective depending on skills you have unlocked, rotations, and player skill, and I find it rather refreshing.

There are some severe imbalances at end game that need to be addressed. its not perfect and will get worse if the community does not speak up. no one is saying the game sucks. No one is saying make the game like wow. What is evident is there are imbalances and some holes in their end game design on a few different lvls and this is one of them.VR dungeons dont work the way you describe. You cannot do VR dungeons with out a dedicated heal. nor can you do them with out dedicated DPS. You can do them with out a dedicated tank though

Thechemicals

I have been able to do these dungeons without dps. Myself and wife play shield tank templars with healing and have had all tanks groups and all tank+1 healer. Dps is not essential since tanks are only using puncture and active blocking (or should be). The rest of the skills are dps based (or should be). Even if you added puncture and 3 defensive skills in your bar- you still have 2 slots and an ultimate for dps. I think dps is less needed than a tank. Everyone does dps through magicka, not everyone can taunt a monster away from someone who gets in trouble. Food for thought.

However, healing is still a requirement in pve and pvp.

Wifeaggro13

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

BrassRazoo wrote: »

I like the fact that a specialist Tank or Healer or anything for that matter may not be required.
There is nothing worse than playing a game that makes it basically impossible to complete a raid unless you have a specific class / build.
This is what ends up holding games back or forcing smaller Guilds / Groups to either stop playing or join a bigger crew who can monopolise gear / end game loot.
This game seems to enable a "Plan B" in your character that is still very effective depending on skills you have unlocked, rotations, and player skill, and I find it rather refreshing.

There are some severe imbalances at end game that need to be addressed. its not perfect and will get worse if the community does not speak up. no one is saying the game sucks. No one is saying make the game like wow. What is evident is there are imbalances and some holes in their end game design on a few different lvls and this is one of them. You cant do VR dungeons with out Dedicated or so called specialist healer. and you cant do them with out pure DPS or specialist DPS. but you can do them with out a dedicated tank. VR dungeons dont work the way you describe. you need specialized roles and it actually makes it a challenge. if you could go in there and everyone do crappy DPs with some light healing how fun would it be.

Veakoth

You state tanks are not required for any current content, well i'd like to see 3 dps and a healer down Bogdan the Nightflame on hard or normal without a tank. Also you will get a shock when you do craglorn with no tank i guarantee it, so you may as well gear one up now rather than later