This game DOES NOT need an auction house....

Drachenfier

Aemesh23 wrote: »

Drachenfier wrote: »

Aemesh23 wrote: »

I notice nobody mentions that the 'global auction house' economies in other games are notoriously abused (and later left to fester and rot as carcasses) by large gold-farming rings, greedy nitwits and silly rabbits, who buyout everything, increase the pricing and toss them back on the auction block.

Then you didn't read the thread, its been mentioned many times, and it's utterly nonsensical. It's the most common mentioned excuse, and the least common occurrence in reality. The real reason people don't want a global economy is so that they can continue to artificially inflate prices by limiting supply to small markets.

Utterly nonsensical... Kind of like staying in a guild that allows its members to inflate prices (and that's a choice in this game, not an economic absolute) by limiting supply to small markets.

And no I didn't read through the whole thread, I skimmed it (sorry to all those who mentioned AH abuse, I really do try to read 5 pages a minute, but I'm only 1/10 that good). But I did it to avoid the inevitable groan that comes from reading posts by people who sterilize the content of other people's posts by presenting counterarguments based on supposition, and presenting them as facts. You can bet your head and every gold tooth that the vast majority of AHs on other games have major inflation problems the longer they run. How can you deny it? Anyone who's played those games has seen the evidence first hand! I even gave a prime example in Diablo3, would you like more examples? Actually, I'm sure you've read about it elsewhere, you can argue with those people if you like.

On the other hand, let's say I agree, for a moment, that limiting supply in small markets is the REAL reason people don't want a global economy... and not because I personally don't want to see all the crazy gold-farming, and/or gold purchasing shizbirds out there to be running around will a full set of gold gear because mommy (/spouse or /you) has a big wallet, and ESO's terms be damned! Wait a second, no, I really do disagree. I've seen this process happen, indirectly and directly, in a great many games, and *startling correlation* those games had global AH! And no I am not the kind of profiteer that you mention, I get all my gear and gold from pvp and dungeons (in cyrodiil)

IF I agreed for a moment, that the guild store needs improvement, I'd say that yes, the guild bank/store interface should probably be expanded on.... OH WAIT! I did say that. I forget, I barely read my own posts, let alone everyone else's. Shoot.

You misunderstand. The members themselves aren't inflating prices, they're keeping a pricing model that wouldn't be as high if the supply were higher. Therefore, the prices are artificially inflated by the lack of supply. Those same items would sell for a lot less in a global market, because the supply would be exponentially higher, which is what some people want, because they'll make more money. Those that want more money for their wares, crafted or otherwise, see it as being in their best interest to fight the institution of a global or even faction wide market because they all know that they can't charge as much for their stuff when more people are selling the same stuff.

Glurin

crush83 wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

If by "dirt cheap" you mean the only people who can afford it don't need it, then yeah, you're right. Just because Bill Gates can use his lunch money to buy a new yacht does not mean the yacht is "dirt cheap" to anyone but him though.

But how many yachts is Bill Gates going to buy? When Bill Gates stops buying yachts, then the price of yachts will fall until:

• The price of the yachts meets the price to produce the yachts, at which no profit is made, and thus no benefit in producing the yachts.
• Someone else starts buying the yachts at whatever price they have descended to.

Ah, but we're not talking about yachts, are we? We're talking about the wood to build them. Goldfarm Lumber Company bought out everyone else and is selling the wood, which is easy to collect, at exorbitant prices. Artificially inflating the price of both the wood and the yacht and preventing anyone who is not already wealthy from getting either. Nobody can compete with them because there is no other market to go to. Your only choice if you want wood but don't want to pay three years salary for it is to grab an axe and cut it yourself.

crush83

Glurin wrote: »

Ah, but we're not talking about yachts, are we? We're talking about the wood to build them. Goldfarm Lumber Company bought out everyone else and is selling the wood, which is easy to collect, at exorbitant prices. Artificially inflating the price of both the wood and the yacht and preventing anyone who is not already wealthy from getting either. Nobody can compete with them because there is no other market to go to. Your only choice if you want wood but don't want to pay three years salary for it is to grab an axe and cut it yourself.

So, are you suggesting that price regulations are the answer? For example, ZOS implementing a price ceiling for each item in the game? Iron Ore can no longer be sold for more than 10 gold per unit. High Iron Ore can be sold for no more than 15 gold per unit. (Those prices are probably too high)

That sort of thing?

What you end up with then is ZOS having to monitor the economy, and adjust these price ceilings with what they deem is fair given the current state of inflation.

drake1980

Sorry but guild stores is a joke for making sells and the sort now it would be a ok if it was just for guildies to supply other guild mates with items and gear for a price, but it being a excuse for a replacement for a proper auction house is bad.

In the long run if this does not get fixxed things will get way worse, heck right now I see more people trying to blow up zone chat with selling advertisements instead of selling it though guild stores. Whats even more sadder is that with a proper auction house this would not even happen.

Also to note that I can understand a listing fee but the total fee for guild stores is insane it makes people who are like me who even do whole sale ( because I gather all my stuff by hand, hey I like being a gather kinda person its a favorate playstyle for me ) we have to sale like iron ingots for 600 gold just to make 450 out of it when we should only really have to sale it for maybe 480 to make it. This in turn has taken people like me who spend hours playing in what most would find boring to do and resort to using zone chat for sales, while I want to keep my prices low I do not want to lose gold just to keep them low ( aka if i can sale 100 ingots for 400 gold to npc why would I list it on guild stores just to make maybe 300 would be counter productive. )

Also I am in two differnt guilds that do trading and yea i have had items in both stores just sit there like those iron ingots I had to price at 600 just so i can net a profit of 450 for the 100 ingots, pretty much 500 people in a guild and can see this store is to darn limited the point of sales is advertising to a mass audiance.

I can only stress and beg something else outside of guild stores happen, heck I would totaly be willing for a house system with vendors I have to pay a upkeep on as long as I can widely have it avalable for the masses to come in and look at what I am selling. Heck I would like a house system with vendors better would feel kinda like Ultima Online when I used to play all over again as I could use my house as my store heheh.

This is just my input on this though, but really I really hope everyone can at least understand where I am comming from with this.

Jeremy

Drachenfier wrote: »

Aemesh23 wrote: »

Drachenfier wrote: »

Aemesh23 wrote: »

I notice nobody mentions that the 'global auction house' economies in other games are notoriously abused (and later left to fester and rot as carcasses) by large gold-farming rings, greedy nitwits and silly rabbits, who buyout everything, increase the pricing and toss them back on the auction block.

Then you didn't read the thread, its been mentioned many times, and it's utterly nonsensical. It's the most common mentioned excuse, and the least common occurrence in reality. The real reason people don't want a global economy is so that they can continue to artificially inflate prices by limiting supply to small markets.

Utterly nonsensical... Kind of like staying in a guild that allows its members to inflate prices (and that's a choice in this game, not an economic absolute) by limiting supply to small markets.

And no I didn't read through the whole thread, I skimmed it (sorry to all those who mentioned AH abuse, I really do try to read 5 pages a minute, but I'm only 1/10 that good). But I did it to avoid the inevitable groan that comes from reading posts by people who sterilize the content of other people's posts by presenting counterarguments based on supposition, and presenting them as facts. You can bet your head and every gold tooth that the vast majority of AHs on other games have major inflation problems the longer they run. How can you deny it? Anyone who's played those games has seen the evidence first hand! I even gave a prime example in Diablo3, would you like more examples? Actually, I'm sure you've read about it elsewhere, you can argue with those people if you like.

On the other hand, let's say I agree, for a moment, that limiting supply in small markets is the REAL reason people don't want a global economy... and not because I personally don't want to see all the crazy gold-farming, and/or gold purchasing shizbirds out there to be running around will a full set of gold gear because mommy (/spouse or /you) has a big wallet, and ESO's terms be damned! Wait a second, no, I really do disagree. I've seen this process happen, indirectly and directly, in a great many games, and *startling correlation* those games had global AH! And no I am not the kind of profiteer that you mention, I get all my gear and gold from pvp and dungeons (in cyrodiil)

IF I agreed for a moment, that the guild store needs improvement, I'd say that yes, the guild bank/store interface should probably be expanded on.... OH WAIT! I did say that. I forget, I barely read my own posts, let alone everyone else's. Shoot.

You misunderstand. The members themselves aren't inflating prices, they're keeping a pricing model that wouldn't be as high if the supply were higher. Therefore, the prices are artificially inflated by the lack of supply. Those same items would sell for a lot less in a global market, because the supply would be exponentially higher, which is what some people want, because they'll make more money. Those that want more money for their wares, crafted or otherwise, see it as being in their best interest to fight the institution of a global or even faction wide market because they all know that they can't charge as much for their stuff when more people are selling the same stuff.

It is more profitable to sell something for 5 dollars to 100 people than it is to sell something for 100 dollars to 1 person.

The increase in demand will more than make up for these prices drops you are referring to.

Glurin

crush83 wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

Ah, but we're not talking about yachts, are we? We're talking about the wood to build them. Goldfarm Lumber Company bought out everyone else and is selling the wood, which is easy to collect, at exorbitant prices. Artificially inflating the price of both the wood and the yacht and preventing anyone who is not already wealthy from getting either. Nobody can compete with them because there is no other market to go to. Your only choice if you want wood but don't want to pay three years salary for it is to grab an axe and cut it yourself.

So, are you suggesting that price regulations are the answer? For example, ZOS implementing a price ceiling for each item in the game? Iron Ore can no longer be sold for more than 10 gold per unit. High Iron Ore can be sold for no more than 15 gold per unit. (Those prices are probably too high)

That sort of thing?

What you end up with then is ZOS having to monitor the economy, and adjust these price ceilings with what they deem is fair given the current state of inflation.

What?! Where in the world did you ever get the idea that I wanted ZOS to regulate prices?

No no no. That would be really, really bad. Not to mention a lot of extra work on ZOS's part.

No, I'm suggesting that having separate markets is a better idea than having everything forcibly lumped together in one gigantic Gold-Mart Super Center. All we really need right now is a way to open the guild stores to buyers in the general game population. Right now all you have is basically isolated villages trading with themselves. We need to let outsiders buy goods.

crush83

Jeremy wrote: »

It is more profitable to sell something for 5 dollars to 100 people than it is to sell something for 100 dollars to 1 person.

This is what you aren't understanding. The increase in demand will more than make up for these prices drops you are referring to.

Gold farmers don't care about turning a profit immediately though. That's why in WoW they buy up all of the reasonably priced cloth, and re-list it for exorbitant prices. It's an investment for them. They invest 500 gold to buy all of the cloth that's reasonably priced. They know eventually demand will come along and need cloth to level. So they let it just sit there until someone comes along and buys that cloth for 10x the price at which the gold farmer purchased it.

So, right now, the market would work great if it was open to everyone. You have a bunch of sources of supply and a bunch of sources of demand. What happens when you don't have a bunch of suppliers anymore, and the occasional source of demand trickles into the game trying to level up, only to find that Iron Ore costs 50g/ea.

Since gold farmers are making an investment when they list that Iron Ore, they don't care if it turns a profit immediately. They are willing to wait a week, 2 weeks, a month because their bots automatically re-list auctions until they are purchased.

And if anything, they will just keep re-listing it higher and higher to help recoup the cost of the auction fees that they lost waiting for someone to finally give in and buy it at the outrageous prices.

The worst part is that the gold farmers are helping themselves because that poor chap is likely to also buy gold from the gold farmers in order to buy the items the gold farmers have listed on the auction house. It's a cycle that severely benefits the gold farmers.

Greydog

crush83 wrote: »

Drachenfier wrote: »

Honestly, I can't believe some of you are so stubbornly arguing against a basic principle that is as sure as water is wet.

In some games, they are cheap, in others they are not. For example, last time I played WoW, basic leveling mats were outrageously expensive. Things like Linen Cloth, and Silk Cloth were more expensive than the mats that were dropping from the new zone.

But stop to think about why for a second. They were more expensive because the supply wasn't meeting the demand...

You had a bunch of new players coming to the game (or old players with new accounts possibly). They wanted to level their professions, but were power leveling through the content. Since fewer players were playing the low level content for a normal amount of time, there was a small supply of low level crafting mats, but the demand was extremely high.

This drove up the price of things like Silk Cloth and Linen Cloth. However, the price of the new Panda cloth was pretty much in line with Linen Cloth because everyone and their brother was getting it while doing the new content (which you couldn't really power level because Recruit-A-Friend bonus didn't apply to it).

Another reason they were so high was that veterans had boat loads of gold to spend, and weren't afraid to spend it to level up that new Panda character. While 5 gold might be an outrageous amount for a newcomer to the game, 5 gold is dropped off a single mob at the end-game content.

So yeah, basically Drachenfier is right.

I've never charged or paid more than 75 silver per unit for any basic lv 1 mats in WoW. The reason you see those kind of prices are because people are just dumb enough to pay it ..and are too lazy to collect them themselves.

Same goes for the "flooded market" issue ...If there are so many on the market then they must be easy to acquire. If that's the case, why buy it ..get it yourself.

This game needs a better trade system. Reposting all the same debunked arguments won't change that.

Drachenfier

Jeremy wrote: »

Drachenfier wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

Virtually every single other MMO out there with a global AH system proves you wrong.

On the contrary, they all prove me right. Basic crafting mats are dirt cheap in Rift, SWTOR, and GW2, which are the only ones I'm actively playing or have actively played within the last few months (aside from ESO). The only way a scenario that you describe could be possible is in a game with a tiny player base (kind of like small limited markets!), in which case the basic economic rule of supply and demand is being met by the other end of the spectrum, where supply does not exceed demand.

Honestly, i can't believe some of you are so stubbornly arguing against a basic principle that is as sure as water is wet.

No on the contrary they all prove you wrong.

SWTOR and GW2 both had functioning economies where I could buy and sell with success. GW2 in particular had the best economy I have ever seen on the game. It worked amazing, and I could always sell and buy almost instantly. I could make money. I could spend money.

I never played rift, but judging by your other comments I would say that one probably worked rather well too. It seems you just have a problem with economies that work.

I think you misread what I posted. I'm all for an AH and absolutely agree that those economies work, and work well, because they have a server wide economic model. If you didn't misread it, well...what you just said makes no sense and has left me utterly baffled.

Drachenfier

Supersomething wrote: »

Drachenfier wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

Virtually every single other MMO out there with a global AH system proves you wrong.

On the contrary, they all prove me right. Basic crafting mats are dirt cheap in Rift, SWTOR, and GW2, which are the only ones I'm actively playing or have actively played within the last few months (aside from ESO). The only way a scenario that you describe could be possible is in a game with a tiny player base (kind of like small limited markets!), in which case the basic economic rule of supply and demand is being met by the other end of the spectrum, where supply does not exceed demand.

Honestly, i can't believe some of you are so stubbornly arguing against a basic principle that is as sure as water is wet.

I cannot comment about Swtor since I haven't played that after the first month after its initial launch. GW2 however I can comment on.

That game has an AH that spans all of it servers and because of this it deflates the inflationary value of gold which is a good thing. The reason being is because the rarer materials within that game such as Orichalcum, Legendary precursors, etc. were worth more by comparison to everyday mats. This idea that the game economy would instantly tank because of a singular AH is absolutely false because GW2 has already proved it could be done and it works exceptionally well.

Yes I know, that's what I've been saying all along. You guys need to read what you're replying to.

Jeremy

Glurin wrote: »

crush83 wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

Ah, but we're not talking about yachts, are we? We're talking about the wood to build them. Goldfarm Lumber Company bought out everyone else and is selling the wood, which is easy to collect, at exorbitant prices. Artificially inflating the price of both the wood and the yacht and preventing anyone who is not already wealthy from getting either. Nobody can compete with them because there is no other market to go to. Your only choice if you want wood but don't want to pay three years salary for it is to grab an axe and cut it yourself.

So, are you suggesting that price regulations are the answer? For example, ZOS implementing a price ceiling for each item in the game? Iron Ore can no longer be sold for more than 10 gold per unit. High Iron Ore can be sold for no more than 15 gold per unit. (Those prices are probably too high)

That sort of thing?

What you end up with then is ZOS having to monitor the economy, and adjust these price ceilings with what they deem is fair given the current state of inflation.

What?! Where in the world did you ever get the idea that I wanted ZOS to regulate prices?

No no no. That would be really, really bad. Not to mention a lot of extra work on ZOS's part.

No, I'm suggesting that having separate markets is a better idea than having everything forcibly lumped together in one gigantic Gold-Mart Super Center. All we really need right now is a way to open the guild stores to buyers in the general game population. Right now all you have is basically isolated villages trading with themselves. We need to let outsiders buy goods.

While this approach would be better that what we have now, it would still be tedious having to browse through so many different markets to try and find the best deal on what you are looking for.

Final Fantasy 14 tried a similar approach, and it bombed. But I would be willing to give it a chance.

crush83

Jeremy wrote: »

Final Fantasy 14 tried a similar approach, and it bombed. But I would be willing to give it a chance.

Yet, it was considered perhaps the best part of SWG (before global vendor search).

Drachenfier

Jeremy wrote: »

Drachenfier wrote: »

Aemesh23 wrote: »

Drachenfier wrote: »

Aemesh23 wrote: »

I notice nobody mentions that the 'global auction house' economies in other games are notoriously abused (and later left to fester and rot as carcasses) by large gold-farming rings, greedy nitwits and silly rabbits, who buyout everything, increase the pricing and toss them back on the auction block.

Then you didn't read the thread, its been mentioned many times, and it's utterly nonsensical. It's the most common mentioned excuse, and the least common occurrence in reality. The real reason people don't want a global economy is so that they can continue to artificially inflate prices by limiting supply to small markets.

Utterly nonsensical... Kind of like staying in a guild that allows its members to inflate prices (and that's a choice in this game, not an economic absolute) by limiting supply to small markets.

And no I didn't read through the whole thread, I skimmed it (sorry to all those who mentioned AH abuse, I really do try to read 5 pages a minute, but I'm only 1/10 that good). But I did it to avoid the inevitable groan that comes from reading posts by people who sterilize the content of other people's posts by presenting counterarguments based on supposition, and presenting them as facts. You can bet your head and every gold tooth that the vast majority of AHs on other games have major inflation problems the longer they run. How can you deny it? Anyone who's played those games has seen the evidence first hand! I even gave a prime example in Diablo3, would you like more examples? Actually, I'm sure you've read about it elsewhere, you can argue with those people if you like.

On the other hand, let's say I agree, for a moment, that limiting supply in small markets is the REAL reason people don't want a global economy... and not because I personally don't want to see all the crazy gold-farming, and/or gold purchasing shizbirds out there to be running around will a full set of gold gear because mommy (/spouse or /you) has a big wallet, and ESO's terms be damned! Wait a second, no, I really do disagree. I've seen this process happen, indirectly and directly, in a great many games, and *startling correlation* those games had global AH! And no I am not the kind of profiteer that you mention, I get all my gear and gold from pvp and dungeons (in cyrodiil)

IF I agreed for a moment, that the guild store needs improvement, I'd say that yes, the guild bank/store interface should probably be expanded on.... OH WAIT! I did say that. I forget, I barely read my own posts, let alone everyone else's. Shoot.

You misunderstand. The members themselves aren't inflating prices, they're keeping a pricing model that wouldn't be as high if the supply were higher. Therefore, the prices are artificially inflated by the lack of supply. Those same items would sell for a lot less in a global market, because the supply would be exponentially higher, which is what some people want, because they'll make more money. Those that want more money for their wares, crafted or otherwise, see it as being in their best interest to fight the institution of a global or even faction wide market because they all know that they can't charge as much for their stuff when more people are selling the same stuff.

It is more profitable to sell something for 5 dollars to 100 people than it is to sell something for 100 dollars to 1 person.

The increase in demand will more than make up for these prices drops you are referring to.

I'm not sure how you got my replies twisted, but you're replying to me as if you're arguing with what I'm saying, when we're both saying the same thing. In what you quoted I was giving an example of how the small localized markets cause artificial inflation that doesn't exist in a global market.

Pristia

drake1980 wrote: »

heck I would totaly be willing for a house system with vendors I have to pay a upkeep on as long as I can widely have it avalable for the masses to come in and look at what I am selling. Heck I would like a house system with vendors better would feel kinda like Ultima Online when I used to play all over again as I could use my house as my store heheh.

I said this same thing, DAoC had this as well and as in UO, you can put your items on the vendor and he will stand there rain or shine selling them for you.

crush83

It seems to me that the synopsis here is that outsiders should be allowed to buy goods, but still have to travel to the village in order to buy them. (as a metaphor)

Jeremy

Drachenfier wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Drachenfier wrote: »

Aemesh23 wrote: »

Drachenfier wrote: »

Aemesh23 wrote: »

I notice nobody mentions that the 'global auction house' economies in other games are notoriously abused (and later left to fester and rot as carcasses) by large gold-farming rings, greedy nitwits and silly rabbits, who buyout everything, increase the pricing and toss them back on the auction block.

Then you didn't read the thread, its been mentioned many times, and it's utterly nonsensical. It's the most common mentioned excuse, and the least common occurrence in reality. The real reason people don't want a global economy is so that they can continue to artificially inflate prices by limiting supply to small markets.

Utterly nonsensical... Kind of like staying in a guild that allows its members to inflate prices (and that's a choice in this game, not an economic absolute) by limiting supply to small markets.

And no I didn't read through the whole thread, I skimmed it (sorry to all those who mentioned AH abuse, I really do try to read 5 pages a minute, but I'm only 1/10 that good). But I did it to avoid the inevitable groan that comes from reading posts by people who sterilize the content of other people's posts by presenting counterarguments based on supposition, and presenting them as facts. You can bet your head and every gold tooth that the vast majority of AHs on other games have major inflation problems the longer they run. How can you deny it? Anyone who's played those games has seen the evidence first hand! I even gave a prime example in Diablo3, would you like more examples? Actually, I'm sure you've read about it elsewhere, you can argue with those people if you like.

On the other hand, let's say I agree, for a moment, that limiting supply in small markets is the REAL reason people don't want a global economy... and not because I personally don't want to see all the crazy gold-farming, and/or gold purchasing shizbirds out there to be running around will a full set of gold gear because mommy (/spouse or /you) has a big wallet, and ESO's terms be damned! Wait a second, no, I really do disagree. I've seen this process happen, indirectly and directly, in a great many games, and *startling correlation* those games had global AH! And no I am not the kind of profiteer that you mention, I get all my gear and gold from pvp and dungeons (in cyrodiil)

IF I agreed for a moment, that the guild store needs improvement, I'd say that yes, the guild bank/store interface should probably be expanded on.... OH WAIT! I did say that. I forget, I barely read my own posts, let alone everyone else's. Shoot.

You misunderstand. The members themselves aren't inflating prices, they're keeping a pricing model that wouldn't be as high if the supply were higher. Therefore, the prices are artificially inflated by the lack of supply. Those same items would sell for a lot less in a global market, because the supply would be exponentially higher, which is what some people want, because they'll make more money. Those that want more money for their wares, crafted or otherwise, see it as being in their best interest to fight the institution of a global or even faction wide market because they all know that they can't charge as much for their stuff when more people are selling the same stuff.

It is more profitable to sell something for 5 dollars to 100 people than it is to sell something for 100 dollars to 1 person.

The increase in demand will more than make up for these prices drops you are referring to.

I'm not sure how you got my replies twisted, but you're replying to me as if you're arguing with what I'm saying, when we're both saying the same thing. In what you quoted I was giving an example of how the small localized markets cause artificial inflation that doesn't exist in a global market.

Oh. My bad then if we agree. I may have gotten mixed up with your quote vs what you were responding to. I am still new at these forums and probably putting in the wrong quotes.

Apologies, and sorry I unfairly targeted you

blueline

Besides sheer quantity and/or instant gratification, what would a guild store or a global AH have that I couldn't go out in the game world and obtain on my own?

Jeremy

blueline wrote: »

Besides sheer quantity and/or instant gratification, what would a guild store or a global AH have that I couldn't go out in the game world and obtain on my own?

Well for starters, a good economy would help me buy enough diamonds, honing stones, and dwarf oil to upgrade my gear to blues with the traits I want while I level up. If you want specific examples. Because I am unable to collect enough of these on my own in a reasonable time span.

That is the whole purpose of a MMORPG economy Blueline. To help you gain things you can't reasonably get on your own.

Jeremy

crush83 wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Final Fantasy 14 tried a similar approach, and it bombed. But I would be willing to give it a chance.

Yet, it was considered perhaps the best part of SWG (before global vendor search).

I didn't dismiss the notion out-right. Perhaps if done right something along these lines could work.

Glurin

Jeremy wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

crush83 wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

Ah, but we're not talking about yachts, are we? We're talking about the wood to build them. Goldfarm Lumber Company bought out everyone else and is selling the wood, which is easy to collect, at exorbitant prices. Artificially inflating the price of both the wood and the yacht and preventing anyone who is not already wealthy from getting either. Nobody can compete with them because there is no other market to go to. Your only choice if you want wood but don't want to pay three years salary for it is to grab an axe and cut it yourself.

So, are you suggesting that price regulations are the answer? For example, ZOS implementing a price ceiling for each item in the game? Iron Ore can no longer be sold for more than 10 gold per unit. High Iron Ore can be sold for no more than 15 gold per unit. (Those prices are probably too high)

That sort of thing?

What you end up with then is ZOS having to monitor the economy, and adjust these price ceilings with what they deem is fair given the current state of inflation.

What?! Where in the world did you ever get the idea that I wanted ZOS to regulate prices?

No no no. That would be really, really bad. Not to mention a lot of extra work on ZOS's part.

No, I'm suggesting that having separate markets is a better idea than having everything forcibly lumped together in one gigantic Gold-Mart Super Center. All we really need right now is a way to open the guild stores to buyers in the general game population. Right now all you have is basically isolated villages trading with themselves. We need to let outsiders buy goods.

While this approach would be better that what we have now, it would still be tedious having to browse through so many different markets to try and find the best deal on what you are looking for.

Final Fantasy 14 tried a similar approach, and it bombed. But I would be willing to give it a chance.

Just like shopping in RL though, you only go for as long as you have the will/patience for. You may not find the absolute best deal anywhere in the world for what you want, but you did get it cheaper than you would have if you only shopped at one store.

Crumpy

"This game DOES NOT need an auction house...."

Yes, it does.

Jeremy

Glurin wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

crush83 wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

Ah, but we're not talking about yachts, are we? We're talking about the wood to build them. Goldfarm Lumber Company bought out everyone else and is selling the wood, which is easy to collect, at exorbitant prices. Artificially inflating the price of both the wood and the yacht and preventing anyone who is not already wealthy from getting either. Nobody can compete with them because there is no other market to go to. Your only choice if you want wood but don't want to pay three years salary for it is to grab an axe and cut it yourself.

So, are you suggesting that price regulations are the answer? For example, ZOS implementing a price ceiling for each item in the game? Iron Ore can no longer be sold for more than 10 gold per unit. High Iron Ore can be sold for no more than 15 gold per unit. (Those prices are probably too high)

That sort of thing?

What you end up with then is ZOS having to monitor the economy, and adjust these price ceilings with what they deem is fair given the current state of inflation.

What?! Where in the world did you ever get the idea that I wanted ZOS to regulate prices?

No no no. That would be really, really bad. Not to mention a lot of extra work on ZOS's part.

No, I'm suggesting that having separate markets is a better idea than having everything forcibly lumped together in one gigantic Gold-Mart Super Center. All we really need right now is a way to open the guild stores to buyers in the general game population. Right now all you have is basically isolated villages trading with themselves. We need to let outsiders buy goods.

While this approach would be better that what we have now, it would still be tedious having to browse through so many different markets to try and find the best deal on what you are looking for.

Final Fantasy 14 tried a similar approach, and it bombed. But I would be willing to give it a chance.

Just like shopping in RL though, you only go for as long as you have the will/patience for. You may not find the absolute best deal anywhere in the world for what you want, but you did get it cheaper than you would have if you only shopped at one store.

If they limited it to a reasonable number of competing markets everyone had access to it might work out alright. But I doubt many people would have to patience to sift through the hundreds of different guild stores in the game right now.

Crumpy

There's so much bollocks talk just have a *** AH

Jeremy

Crumpy wrote: »

There's so much bollocks talk just have a *** AH

That would be the easiest and most effective way to solve it.

Greydog

While it's true that a "global" AH may not be needed most of us agree that it is too fragmented and restrictive.

Here is a suggestion I made in another thread that uses what is in already and expands upon it.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/comment/620679/#Comment_620679

link fixed

Jeremy

crush83 wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

It is more profitable to sell something for 5 dollars to 100 people than it is to sell something for 100 dollars to 1 person.

This is what you aren't understanding. The increase in demand will more than make up for these prices drops you are referring to.

Gold farmers don't care about turning a profit immediately though. That's why in WoW they buy up all of the reasonably priced cloth, and re-list it for exorbitant prices. It's an investment for them. They invest 500 gold to buy all of the cloth that's reasonably priced. They know eventually demand will come along and need cloth to level. So they let it just sit there until someone comes along and buys that cloth for 10x the price at which the gold farmer purchased it.

.

I think I understand what you are saying.

They could take a loss for a while to dominate the market then raise prices. But that should only be a temporary problem because as soon as they were to raise the prices it would invite competition again. They can't take a loss forever, or they will go out of business.

Those tactics only work long-term if the gold farmers are able to take over the source where those items are acquired. And if they could do that, it would likely be done rather a public auction house exists or not.

Aemesh23

Look, the acquisition of materials and gear at some point needs to be LESS convenient. Your conveniences will have a heavier cost than you think. What will the endgame content be when you can just buy the rare and magnificent sword of doom? It'll be like diablo3. "Oh wow! This is the sword of the heavens, its might is unmatched, .ehhhh except by this other sword of the heavens, this one has +1 stamina more than that one. Oh man, howw much is it selling for? 300000g? I need it!"

So long as everything is readily available to everyone, the people with the money get all the powerful goodies. When did these mmo's, as a standard, become about making money to have the best toon, rather than who plays their toon the best, or just going out there and finding the item you want for yourself? (it is after all, a game, and "game" implies equal footing for all parties. Not "equal footing, and then those people without gold"). If this were not true, then why in RIFT- a game i've heard is supposed to have a fair economy - are all the pvp brackets terrorized by ridiculously OP twinks? Why isn't everyone in pvp rocking enchants in every slot, on high end crafted greens? Because they're exorbitantly expensive, in a system that has evolved to reward players with an overabundance of gold.
(can that be fixed in ESO? probably not, but it is -at least currently- curbed)

Besides, I think I understand the important part here just fine, and so do a lot of others apparently; somebody said something about "the people who could afford it don't need it anymore?" Totally true! Who needs linen cloth at level 60? But why is it 1g a stack? because @ssholes who buy gold from farming sites keep paying for it and keep the prices bloated. Why do proponents for easy-access economy never acknowledge this point? Because they want to make more gold selling their wares, and they don't care who buys it. Or because they're the @ssholes buying gold. To be fair, some people genuinely "earn" the gold by farming it themselves (sigh) over and over with their aoe build, smashing hordes of mobs. Does this mean you should therefor be able to conveniently buy whatever you like, at the expense of other player's enjoyment of the game? Undoubtedly, there will also be people who will enjoy the loot you sell on AH. But then again, two months from now, when you own every item you could possibly want, and you already have three alts, and the game has become soooooo tediously dull, you will leave this game for some new game with a burgeoning economy, and those of us you leave behind will have to deal with your bloated precedents.

Regardless, wait a month, and see those prices on ESO's level 50 mats. Im not saying youre wrong, now, it might be a friggn bake sale. Just saying, let's do this! Bring on the AH! And in a month or two, if all goes well, I'll say, wow! You folks were right.

Probably not, but, I swear, I'll admit it if I was wrong, if you're still here.

Humor

Tiyamel wrote: »

@Mortelus +1 trading posts would tie in with current system nicely, as stated in original post I agree the current guild trading system needs refinements.
@Vorpedagel
@Humor @KerinKor @Thunder thanks for your opinions, we may disagree but that's the nature of discussion, I am looking for positive comments on how the current system could be improved without resorting to removing the entire system for a global AH, thank you.

Alright, here's a thought a "positive" thought on how they can improve the system... Instead of just having guild stores to guilds only, how about we open up Guild Stores to everyone in the entire game, and we can even add the addition of other players who do not wish to join a Guild, to post their wares across the very exact same "Guild Store", which let me remind you once again, is OPEN to EVERYONE.

This would vastly increase the amount of players who would use a "Guild Store".

Greydog

Humor wrote: »

Tiyamel wrote: »

@Mortelus +1 trading posts would tie in with current system nicely, as stated in original post I agree the current guild trading system needs refinements.
@Vorpedagel
@Humor @KerinKor @Thunder thanks for your opinions, we may disagree but that's the nature of discussion, I am looking for positive comments on how the current system could be improved without resorting to removing the entire system for a global AH, thank you.

Alright, here's a thought a "positive" thought on how they can improve the system... Instead of just having guild stores to guilds only, how about we open up Guild Stores to everyone in the entire game, and we can even add the addition of other players who do not wish to join a Guild, to post their wares across the very exact same "Guild Store", which let me remind you once again, is OPEN to EVERYONE.

This would vastly increase the amount of players who would use a "Guild Store".

But how would players access the stores. The bank interface? You think those npc's are busy now just imagine how full those building will be

The suggestion I posted above addresses that also.

KanedaSyndrome

To answer you subject line.

Yes the game needs a proper auction house or several. Perhaps several, but they keyword here is that they need ot be public so your customer base isn't locked to the same 499 people.

It's just a terrible implementation of the economy, it's not even an economy at the moment.