Please Stop Trivializing Content

SuperScrubby

But tons of bad players are struggling and calling for nerfs. Everyone's skill level is different and will be, that's fine. But you can't set content to be so easy that there's no sense of accomplishment when you win. Beating Molag Bal naked is no different than me beating him twice while inebriated. It was such a disappointment that I could to it 2 times (first time bugged at the end) that once I hit VR1 content I didn't feel the drive to keep grinding since even that content is just mind boring quests with some decent writing mixed in. I'm hoping the game evolves to something better, but as of right now I'm super bored playing my DK even in PvP.

Content has become so easy that it's taking away from the game. VR content just means I can't leroy jenkins in like an *** and walk away unscathed, but by no means have I said "wow this is hard".

GreySix

Some of us want to play games like this for the fun of adventuring and conducting quests, vice the "brutal challenge" of facing horrendously tough bosses.

Many of us get sufficient challenges facing brutal bosses in day to day life, so we turn to games like ESO to ... you know ... have fun. Getting curb-stomped by or barely beating forced-solo bosses after lengthy fights isn't our idea of fun.

GreySix

Lanatireb17_ESO wrote: »

I have this friend who can solve abstract mathematical problems concerning quantum physics without a calculator. That totally proves that quantum physics is easy and everyone that doesnt understand it needs to get a grip, seriously.

That gets my nomination for Post of the Year.

RangerChad

I think every zone dungeon should have a difficulty option. Anybody here ever play Dragon Nest? It allowed you to choose from various difficulties in its more difficult dungeons that involved farming set gear for that level cap. Perhaps add something like this to every zone dungeon, that way people who are above average can have a hard battle with reward.

LonePirate

RangerChad wrote: »

I think every zone dungeon should have a difficulty option. Anybody here ever play Dragon Nest? It allowed you to choose from various difficulties in its more difficult dungeons that involved farming set gear for that level cap. Perhaps add something like this to every zone dungeon, that way people who are above average can have a hard battle with reward.

This is an excellent idea which I would extend to the solo player instanced bosses at the end of some quests. Let players choose their difficulty, perhaps by giving three options: Easy, Moderate and Hard. Then have rewards such as increasing amounts of gold, XP and loot tiers (green, blue and purple where applicable) which are based on the difficulty level chosen. People who want the hardest challenges would have that option while also helping people who just want some fun or a chance at defeating an enemy who has been mopping the floor with them. Everybody wins in this scenario.

LonePirate

Duplicate post. Sorry about that.

Tarrin

Agree with topicstarter.

I have 1 suggestion for dev.team:

Why not make choosing of "game difficulty" in mmorpg. It would work as server mirror, and players, who choose "hard" can play with Veteran difficulty at once.

With better rewards (buffs/additional skillpoints/loot/achievs/titles or smth. else) of cause.

1-50 lvls are very easy now

NordJitsu

Different difficulty levels is a great idea and could actually work with the mega server phasing (I hope?).

As long as higher difficulty gets better rewards, I'm down.

nicholaspingasb16_ESO

As someone who finds Dark Souls 2 easy, this game is a cakewalk (despite having a very different combat system). It's simply not difficult enough. Especially after they nerfed the guild questline bosses (Doshia and that clanfear) who were the only REMOTELY difficult enemies in the game.

UnderKingRhun

Levels 1-50 is pretty easy, with a few peculiar difficulty spikes here and there, which seem to come out of left field at times. Vet is a challenge, but once again, enemies with more HP and dps output does not equate to "more challenging" the Teso creed of "play like you want" goes out the window, where the build you have worked on , which was perfectly fine all the way to 50 goes out the window. Or is that just me?

NordJitsu

@UnderKingRhun‌

Vet rank content isn't really challenging at all any more...

nudel

So ZOS slipped some interesting info about difficulty scaling, suggesting it might come in future updates. Take a gander at The Road Ahead if you haven't seen it yet.

Anywho the text in question is "Auto-leveling dungeons that level to your group leader". Interesting means of scaling difficulty, though it would require piggy backing off of someone higher level in order to come by that difficulty. So in the future players who like a challenge may for instance run a dungeon with a friend who has a character 10 lvls higher in order to scale the dungeon up. After the run, they could swap places so that each could have the fun of taking on overpowered content.

Curious as to whether this would only affect group instanced dungeons or if they would somehow force difficulty phasing on public dungeons and delves as well.

@NordJitsu‌ @tarindiseb17_ESO‌ @RangerChad‌ Thoughts on this?

NordJitsu

@nudel‌

I do really like the idea, though I don't consider it an answer to this thread.

I think the good thing about auto-level dungeons is it keeps the content relevant and repeatable, since you won't overdo it.

But requiring me to group with a high level player to forcibly gimp our group, thus making the game hard, isn't really an answer.

Right now, I can go to higher VR zones and do the group public dungeons solo. That can be a challenge, kinda...

But the game is designed so that the majority of your time is spent questing. That's the part that needs to be engaging imo.

GreySix

nudel wrote: »

So ZOS slipped some interesting info about difficulty scaling, suggesting it might come in future updates. Take a gander at The Road Ahead if you haven't seen it yet.

Saw this:

•A system that allows grouped players to see each other even when they’re in different phases

Really interested to see if they'll enable grouping within main quest dungeons. If they do, I'll happily re-subscribe.

nudel

Fair point Nord. How would you prefer to see a difficulty slider implemented? Would if affect only dungeons/ delves or overworld content as well? Selected upon entering the zone or toggled in the Settings?

My one concern regarding wholesale difficulty phasing is that it would further fragment the community across zones. I really like bumping into other players through the course of playing, helping them or being helped. If everyone can choose difficulty, I fear some phases would be really underpopulated. Some already complain about feeling anonymous and alone in this game.

I do really want a more challenging experience though. Scaling based on the number of players present or combat active could be nice or it could turn into a brand new way to grief people. And really it wouldn't fully address the vastly differing desires for difficulty. "One size fits all" created this thread in the first place after all.

Iunno just spitballing here.

NordJitsu

@nudel‌

Ya...idk.

I know some people complain about feeling alone, but I really think that's more about the way the quests are set up. Most of the game is designed to be done essentially solo, apart from group publics, instanced dungeons, world bosses, and PvP. So its not the number of players in a phase that's leading to that feeling, its pure game design which I don't see changing. Hopefully the new dungeons, Craglorn, ect. will satisfy them though.

Personally, I think the game is at its best when there are a few but not many people around. So for me, I'm not overly concerned about fragmenting the phases.

Honestly I leveled quickly to get away from the bulk of the player base. The rolling zergs of 20 people on every Dark Anchor and in every Public Dungeon ruined the experience for me. The quest bosses are easy enough for me without 15 other people there.

At that point the only challenge is trying to get a hit in so you don't have to wait for the next respawn.

I think like 3 different difficulty levels Easy, Medium, and Hard would be great for the game. They wouldn't even necessarily have to add more phases, just designate the existing ones (though again, my preference would be for fewer players per phase.)

nudel

Good point Nord. Hadn't thought of them just designating existing phases. I do agree that content seems to have a critical mass for participants beyond which it gets stupidly easy. Two other people in a public dungeon... not so bad. Fifteen...where the mobs at yo?

I guess I wouldn't want it to be completely devoid of life like on the PTS, but it could probably stand to have fewer people than it allows now.

Sakiri

I have no problem with difficulty levels. I just want my terrible player of a friend to be able to ask for and get help without forced solo or crap phasing screwing it up.

Rad

GreySix wrote: »

nudel wrote: »

So ZOS slipped some interesting info about difficulty scaling, suggesting it might come in future updates. Take a gander at The Road Ahead if you haven't seen it yet.

Saw this:

•A system that allows grouped players to see each other even when they’re in different phases

Really interested to see if they'll enable grouping within main quest dungeons. If they do, I'll happily re-subscribe.

I want ... no I need ... a combination of both. A autolevel system in the open world so I can play with my RL friends and not just random Joe who happen to have the same level and quest as me. It's been done in other games 10 years ago, and it worked fine. I can not see a reason for it to not be a reality.

Together with a more easily managed quest tracker (Leader chooses quest from his own, and all members get the navpoints, killcounts etc even if they don't have the quest themselves) this would make me stay in the long haul. As it is now I'm more or less ready to leave.

Corithna

GreySix wrote: »

Some of us want to play games like this for the fun of adventuring and conducting quests, vice the "brutal challenge" of facing horrendously tough bosses.

Many of us get sufficient challenges facing brutal bosses in day to day life, so we turn to games like ESO to ... you know ... have fun. Getting curb-stomped by or barely beating forced-solo bosses after lengthy fights isn't our idea of fun.

In time, if you stick with this title you will find that encounters you found to 'curb-stompingly' hard are only this way when you fail to understand the mechanics behind the fight. Once you understand how things work most bosses are simple to beat if you don't panic and try to 'spam' you way out of a tough spot. Waiting until the right time to block or interrupt and then exploiting the stunned mob can have a huge effect on a players perception of difficulty. There are also attacks by some bosses that you just need to ignore/eat due to their repetitious nature and minimal effect on your health. The Manimarco fight comes to mind in this respect. They are meant to introduce the player to mechanics that will be prevalent in many fights later down the line.

One thing I can offer you is that for most if not all of the fights you might run into issues with, youtube offers many examples of how to beat these fights using various methodologies. If you watch, and rewatch these a few times you'll probably get the point and then go in and own the boss, his Mercedes, Rolex, and maybe even his pretty wife too!

GreySix

Corithna wrote: »

In time, if you stick with this title you will find that encounters you found to 'curb-stompingly' hard are only this way when you fail to understand the mechanics behind the fight. Once you understand how things work most bosses are simple to beat if you don't panic and try to 'spam' you way out of a tough spot.

Look, I know you're trying to help. But you're answering a question I didn't ask.

I don't care about mastering the keyboard and mouse mechanics of this particular game to beat a mega-boss after a grueling fifteen minute pixel fight.

What I play this game for is the immersion of exploration and questing with my wife. Really ... that's all. So all I'm requesting is the option to do so ... not to take away from you solo-only players the ability to solo the same instances, but to provide those of us who don't want to solo the ability to group. It's that simple.

Elyna

Mannimarco was a complete joke when I fought him. I was actually wondering if the game was bugged because he did so little damage.

GreySix

Elyna wrote: »

Mannimarco was a complete joke when I fought him. I was actually wondering if the game was bugged because he did so little damage.

When my character fought him, he simply glanced in Mannimarco's direction, who then lost control of his bowels and then died of fright, collapsing pathetically to the ground. My character then relieved himself on Mannimarco's corpse, before stalking away to seek a more worthy foe.

Really, if it takes more than three seconds for your character to beat Mannimarco, you've no business playing this game, at all.

SilentFox22

A few levels later and after a lot of cussing, I finally beat Doshia and I remember how Great it felt when I finally took that @#$&% down! Please don't take that away from us. Challenges are what make our in-game experiences interesting and more memorable. I'm disappointed as well to hear about the Mannimarco nerf. I would totally expect a boss {like Mannimarco} to be a great challenge. Please give him back some of his mojo.

LonePirate

@Elyna‌
@GreySix

You battle Mannimarco during two different quests. The first is around level 20 where he is merely a human sized ghost. This is the version that is the easy one to defeat. This is obviously the one you are thinking of as most people have no problems dispatching him.

The real Mannimarco appears in a level 40 quest and he is an absolute behemoth with thousands and thousands of HP and some significantly damaging spells he casts. This is the version people are struggling to defeat - the version which you evidently have not fought yet as he is not an easy kill by any means. Please check in once you defeat this level 40 version of Mannimarco.

NordJitsu

@LonePirate‌

No. We're talking about the level 40 Mannimarco.

He's a joke.

Kendaric

NordJitsu wrote: »

@LonePirate‌

No. We're talking about the level 40 Mannimarco.

He's a joke.

Certainly not impossible to beat, but hardly a joke for a good number of players. He was certainly easier than some of the area story bosses for me, but the fight sure was annoying as hell due to it's length.

Sakiri

Hes a joke to the guys that want raid boss difficulty out of mandatory content.

Elyna

LonePirate wrote: »

@Elyna‌
@GreySix

You battle Mannimarco during two different quests. The first is around level 20 where he is merely a human sized ghost. This is the version that is the easy one to defeat. This is obviously the one you are thinking of as most people have no problems dispatching him.

The real Mannimarco appears in a level 40 quest and he is an absolute behemoth with thousands and thousands of HP and some significantly damaging spells he casts. This is the version people are struggling to defeat - the version which you evidently have not fought yet as he is not an easy kill by any means. Please check in once you defeat this level 40 version of Mannimarco.

I was referring to the lvl 40 one. That battle was just a war of attrition.

Heraclea

Whenever I hear people complain about "trivializing content" and making games too "casual friendly", the phrase "50 DKP Minus" starts running through my head.