Please Stop Trivializing Content

ex0.f00kb16_ESO

Can't agree more with the threat starter *cheers*
Tbh. the dungeons are wayyyyy to easy xD ok forgett bout the standard dungeons.
But not even the Veteran Dungeons are close to a challenge i have only done the first 3 V1 - V2 yet with 5 V2 Players and it wasnt to hard of a challange, some nice mechanics but over all pretty usual.
I realy realy hope that the Raidcontent is harder to Master.

AngryNord

I see nobody really read my last post. Oh well, didn't really expect that either.

Lanatireb17_ESO

AngryNord wrote: »

I see nobody really read my last post. Oh well, didn't really expect that either.

Of course they dont react to what you write, for several reasons.

a) the 'dont nerf anything, make it harder'people are too selfish and selfabsorbed to accept any reasoning against their own. Especially when they cant argue against it, like in your case. If they would start to argue against you and your disabilities it would make them look bad, so they rather ignore it.

b) They usually just keep writing without reading counterarguments anyways. Remember our common friend in the other thread, and how i did prove to him that he didnt even read the thread before he started insulting me?

Shaun98ca2

Coming to an MMO LOOKING for a challenge to me seems like going to a single player game LOOKING for a social element.

MMO's need to appeal to a VERY wide variety of people. The forced solo content needs to be doable by EVERYBODY.

With that said they need to make the rest of the content IE Public Dungeons, Elites, Dark Anchors, Group dungeons the REAL challenge in the game. These you can get away with being harder and almost uncompletable due to the fact that you DONT need to complete them to progress so they SHOULD be harder.

Forced Solo content SHOULD = easy
Rest SHOULD = HARD

Sut4sueb17_ESO

I agree 100% with what OP wrote. I havent been in CB, only on few weekends, but I decided to give ESO a go because of challenging PvE I've encountered. It felt good and refreshing. It wasnt HARD, it was Normal difficulty, when sometimes you have to think which skills to use and adapt to an enemy.

And now you are nerfing stuff down, I dont want to play another 1-win-button MMORPG, its boring, fast and not rewarding in the end.

Lanatireb17_ESO

Funny how the people arguing against nerfs consistently keep ignoring ALL arguments against their case. If i had 10 bucks for all the people just jumping in here posting the same crap without reading one post of what was written before them i could play ESO for free the next 5 years.

mlstevens42_ESO

Sometimes for some things there just isn't a way to win. I for one do not think I have to win at everything. If I get so frustrated that the game is no longer fun it is time to put it down and do something else.

I am starting to get old I can not do some of the things I used to be able to do. Life just doesn't make these things easy so I can do them. Whether it is climb mountains or go for a run,see well whatever however. Life isn't always easy or fair. I suppose I should quit trying and yell at God for making things to hard. Demand changes ect...

The devs will do whatever they feel is best for the game. If it is not to my liking I can vote with my wallet and go else where. It would not be the first time certainly will not be the last. I just wish instead of complaining incessantly others would do the same.

Milanna

@‌AngryNord

I get what you are saying, I am at that point myself. I went in, got killed by Mannimarco and his ***** skeletons a few times at level 21.

I decided I need a few more levels before tackling him again. I have nearly finished Grathwood at 24 and I am giving Manni another go at 25.
I believe I have improved my gameplay and I hope I will do better this time.

Why not do the same? You dont HAVE to do it at lvl 20-21.

AngryNord

@Milanna Thanks for the tip, but it isn't just that the mobs are (way) overpowered that is the problem, if you read my initial paragraphs - there's just too much at once. Confusion just gets too great, I mispress buttons, or just "lose it", and voila: Dead in seconds. Now with one more person, I am fairly confident it would take away enough of the strain to go through this quest. So why won't Zenimax let me?

Alandauron

AngryNord wrote: »

@Milanna Thanks for the tip, but it isn't just that the mobs are (way) overpowered that is the problem, if you read my initial paragraphs - there's just too much at once. Confusion just gets too great, I mispress buttons, or just "lose it", and voila: Dead in seconds. Now with one more person, I am fairly confident it would take away enough of the strain to go through this quest. So why won't Zenimax let me?

Look I sympathize with you, I really do. My mom has a friend with the same issues. But I want a challenge, the current state of things is NOT challenging.

You want to play the way you want and roll over everything the first time you play, good for you, now that they're just hitting all PvE bosses with the nerf bat you'll get that. So that leaves me out in the cold not getting what I desire, well who cares right?

@Lanatireb17_ESO‌, you are completely correct in several cases. And then there's also the fact that some people have posted that they have severe arthritis and still had no issues with the current state of these "OP bosses". So one with a disability has no issue and another does...one perfectly healthy has no issue and another does. I personally think it's just that the game isn't working as intended in many cases, but sure take the extreme road to try and force your point home. Using someone with a disability to get your point across is worse than ignoring them in my opinion.

The last thing I'll say is this, I understand the frustration because these "OP bosses" are in the main story line that is required to move on to other areas. I don't want to see the game dumbed down to the point of facerolling everything on the first try, but if they can't get the mechanics working properly then I guess that or group play is the only solution...?

Anyway, I'm done weighing in on this thread, hopefully in the end we'll end up with a game that is enjoyable and still challenging to some extent.

Vorpedagel

I love this post. Captured my thoughts and emotions regarding this game 110%.

Maybe there should be an option to complete the game at a higher difficulty on the same megaserver, but present the player with an easily identifiable badge/insignia/chat icon/rank that show's this. I don't know.. we need something

demonlkojipub19_ESO

I agree with this post as well. I remember the first time fighting a harvester during the EP side of fighters guild quests. I died the first time cuz I didnt know about the orbs, but as soon as I learned to move out of the way of disastrous attack and kill the orbs I won. Soon after they reduce the power of that monster and I wonder why. That was totally doable with the strength it was at.

I hope they don't continue nerfing fights that don't need to be nerfed. Now there are some that needs to be nerfed, but there aren't that many at all.

Aenra

Just to (shamelessly bump) voice my agreement as well

Abigail

I have a somewhat severe neurologic disorder; without macros on my mouse and keyboard the game would not be fathomable for me. That said, I continually encounter circumstances where twitchy button mashing is necessary -- PvP, for instance.

Just so, I wouldn't expect the game to be dumbed down for me. I take no satisfaction in conquering something that has been made purposely easy. I'm only too happy to die a couple of times while I develop a strategy to overcome.

To the point, even I think a lot of the content is too easy, and that's saying a lot.

qwertyburnsb16_ESO

I really hope they don't make it all easy kill. It might be too easy now as I'm very lazy when it comes to interruption, block and rolling out of the red zone and still win against most mobs except bosses.

Might be worth someone clever making a few training videos to show players how to fight properly. Seen a good one has been done by someone for Doshia, but she has now been nerfed

Those that lose all the time, questions for you?
What are the stats on your weapons or armour? If you need better then buy or make it, preferably the later.
Are you finger tired? Try having a break then get rolling and run about a bit more.
Are you high enough level? No shame on running away to levelled up more to come back to fight another day.
Have you collected enough sole shards for those skill points? If not go explore.
How have you spent those skill points, more crafter than combat? Go respec if need be, combat comes first.

Last of all no shame in asking for help where possible and in a public dungeon wait for more to come your way (Done this myself a few places.). I'm not being elitist as there are a lot better players than me out there, but this is not hard. If fact substantially more easier than beta in my opinion. As the OP says please don't trivialise the content.

AngryNord

qwertyburnsb16_ESO wrote: »

Are you high enough level?

You DO know we are talking about the Main Quest here, right? You don't get those quests until you are a certain level.

Kendaric

qwertyburnsb16_ESO wrote: »

Last of all no shame in asking for help where possible and in a public dungeon wait for more to come your way (Done this myself a few places.). I'm not being elitist as there are a lot better players than me out there, but this is not hard. If fact substantially more easier than beta in my opinion. As the OP says please don't trivialise the content.

The issues people have are mostly related to the enforced solo bosses (main quest for the most part). It's less of a problem early on when they can easily be overleveled and finished without issues at two or four levels higher.

One of the few boss fights I actually enjoyed was the last part of the fighters guild questline. That fight was actually fun and felt a lot fairer than some main quest fights. I might have enjoyed Fildgor as a boss (Eastmarch questline), if he hadn't bugged out seven times in a row and wouldn't be much easier for ranged combatants than melee.
The main quest bosses so far all leave me with a "I'm finally done with it and don't need to do it again" kind of feeling rather than any sort of satisfaction.

Lanatireb17_ESO

And once again. Noone. is asking for a nerf. but to make the final monsters of quest chains only soloable will break the game for people who are not able to do things like that alone. We are asking for an option to take someone along with us. nothing more.

qwertyburnsb16_ESO

AngryNord wrote: »

qwertyburnsb16_ESO wrote: »

Are you high enough level?

You DO know we are talking about the Main Quest here, right? You don't get those quests until you are a certain level.

I'm responding to OP's overall feeling of the game. As far as the main story goes. Well last week I got frustrated with "Mannimarco". However, I was finger tired and took a break and watched TV for a while. Came back and got my revenge. Anyway you don't have to do a main story quest at that level, you can always come back to them.

ZOS_JasonI

Hey there, everyone. Just a reminder to please keep the conservation on this thread constructive and on-topic. While we allow users to disagree, we require all posts to be respectful and constructive, per our Code of Conduct. Thank you for your understanding.

wastelanderer

Everything can be made instanced, and so does a challenging modes, why not make different challenging modes and reward them accordantly, instead of nerfing or making harder for everyone? which will not sell well.
Just my point of view.

NordJitsu

I suppose it wouldn't be an issue to allow people to bring one at level friend along. You can already trivialize the content yourself by overleveling everything.

But if you do over level everything you get "punished" by earning rewards which are no longer level appropriate and thus less useful to you.

Completing these quests solo and at level should be rewarding.

I also like the idea of a higher difficulty (option) that yields some greater reward or recognition (title, ect.).

Morgha_Kul

Something of note here. Most often (and it is a generalization, I know), the people complaining about how easy the game is are the same people who have minmaxed their characters to the point that they have the absolute best gear, the most powerful skills and so on.

Here's an idea for you, something I've done myself from time to time, when I found things too easy.

Don't equip yourself with the best of the best gear. Wear white-level armour. Use skills you don't always use. Don't minmax.

I know it kind of rubs against the grain, but it can work.

SuperScrubby

Sadly the moment you add those title's you'll get people complaining about not being able to get those title's because it skill gates them off for "elitists".

It's the state of the mmo community has these days. They trivialized content in FFXIV for levels 1-50 because the dev's wanted people to focus on "end game" however since people were using garbage gear, didn't actually know how to play their classes many people just couldn't ramp up to meet the "skill level" required for end game content. Made pugs incredibly awful to the point that I quit.

Sadly to say that while I would want everyone to be included in terms of the ability to play a game, some people will always be left out. By trying to create a game for "everyone" you will ultimately never capture everyone. Making content accessible to everyone is a nice idea, but if it means that you have to water down the content so much that it alienates the majority of players then what's the point. By pandering to the smallest % of players while at the same time ruining the game for the rest is just not the best solution.

I agree that the minority opinion should be heard but give the games bugs and lack of resources there are issues that are more pressing and are a better use of the time. In a perfect world I would hope that everyone is catered to, but we don't live in that world...not until the Matrix is created.

Alandauron

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

Something of note here. Most often (and it is a generalization, I know), the people complaining about how easy the game is are the same people who have minmaxed their characters to the point that they have the absolute best gear, the most powerful skills and so on.

Here's an idea for you, something I've done myself from time to time, when I found things too easy.

Don't equip yourself with the best of the best gear. Wear white-level armour. Use skills you don't always use. Don't minmax.

I know it kind of rubs against the grain, but it can work.

Not even remotely the case, at least not for me. I'm no min/maxer by any means and run with whatever gear I pick up along the way. No point in getting the best gear available at every level.

So with that being said, why is the content still so easy for me when I'm at level? Also another thing, what you're saying is that those min/maxers shouldn't be able to "play the way they want" as seems to be the argument coming from the other side here.

Grenoir

It is really hard to get through all the *** people put on here! But I still want to put my 5 cents in:

1. To those who want challenge: I want it too! I am all about it and I love the sense of accomplishment so yeah!
2. To those who say i don wanna dieEe! its not fffun: well I am sorry there are three main reasons for dying in games: l2p better than there`s silly game design (100 enemies on you at the same time an all that) and of course the most common one - you are not trying to learn! S if ESO is the one where you have to l2p than I am more than happy to die 100 times;
3. For those who say games are mindless entertainment: well buddy too bad for you
4. Ohh and most importantly for those who say I have some syndrom or i am too old to play: well DONT play then!!! There are always games for likes of you, no offense. This is ridiculous! This game was not made for mentally challenged old or outright *** people. I am sorry I fail to see it stated anywhere. What you ppl basically ask for is as if a cripple would say to change the rules of soccer cos he/she cant run that fast!

Ok I think thats it

NordJitsu

Grenoir wrote: »

4. Ohh and most importantly for those who say I have some syndrom or i am too old to play: well DONT play then!!! There are always games for likes of you, no offense. This is ridiculous! This game was not made for mentally challenged old or outright *** people. I am sorry I fail to see it stated anywhere. What you ppl basically ask for is as if a cripple would say to change the rules of soccer cos he/she cant run that fast!

Yup. Its sad and hard to argue with those people because it pulls your heartstrings, but ultimately that's the answer. There's plenty of games that don't require refelxes and the like. Go play those.

aRealClassAct

Where to begin....

Yes, this game needs to do a better job of preparing players for veteran content before they suck it up and get everyone killed. There are, however, many players (myself among them) who don't use a conventional build and actually do have difficulty with some of the regular content. I like my Templar WW that is very heavy on stam, medium health, and hardly any magicka. I don't want to change that because the way I play makes mobs challenging. Sure at end game I probably wont top DPS meters, but I don't think I will get anyone killed either.

Maybe ZOS should take a page out of The Secret World's book. For those of you who never played TSW, it had end game elite and hardcore versions of the normal dungeons, but the only way you could unlock this content was to solo a boss called "the Gatekeeper". There were even three different versions of the boss that you would fight depending on your role (healer, dps, tank). It required you to perform your role very well in order to clear the content and it did a pretty good job of making sure that people in the Veteran content actually knew what they were doing.

I doubt Zenimax will read half of the great ideas that get thrown around on this forum, but I have faith that they will get everything right eventually. Right now I think they are running around with their hair on fire trying to resolve the botting, spamming, and duping issues, which I hope is top priority.

Lanatireb17_ESO

Grenoir wrote: »

It is really hard to get through all the *** people put on here! But I still want to put my 5 cents in:


This game was not made for mentally challenged old or outright *** people. I am sorry I fail to see it stated anywhere.

Ok I think thats it

why are you playing then?

kirnmalidus

I beat Molag Bal last night. I’m not sure if he’s been nerfed yet, because this was the first time I fought him.

It took me two tries to beat him, so not super difficult to the point that I was dying repeatedly and about to give up, but not a total pushover either. I was so close on the first try I buckled down and made another run at him right away.

When I beat him I felt like I had actually accomplished something, that I had overcome a serious challenge. I had so much adrenaline coursing through me I was literally shaking (and had been during the fight too, which made getting actives off in time a bit difficult). I had a couple of friends over who also play the game and they were watching me fight and cheering me on. And that’s how beating a game should be.

At this rate we are going to have VR players who point out “I beat boss XX before date YY when they nerfed him.” And when it comes down to teaming up with players to run group dungeons, those are the guys I want on my team.

To everyone suggesting they just allow grouping for these quests, no. Just no. As many people have pointed out (and you have mostly ignored), whether you make it mandatory or not is irrelevant. If taking a friend to fiend Molag Bal had been an option I would’ve been stupid not to. If something isn’t mandatory, but it is foolish to the point of stupidity not to do it, it is basically mandatory.

Finally, I play a Nightblade (and have bought every available skill to date in two crafting lines), so everyone crying about the class is too difficult or broken/bugged… nope. I think everyone complaining about this has probably never looked at the Siphoning skill tree and the self heals available there.