Please remove the drops from public dungeon bosses

Anthony45122

rawne1980b16_ESO wrote: »

You made a silly comment, I mocked it. You tried to retort (putting me in my place ... that I laughed at ... delusions of mediocrity flows through you) and I mocked you again.

I see a pattern forming. Although I am highly amused that you seem to think you are "putting me in my place" ... that made my night.

I made a comment stating my opinion that I would rather have the public dungeon bosses drop no loot rather than have loot stay the way it is now. You made a false comment trying to mock me about if I can't have it no one can. Failing to read other comments I had written that clearly state I have no problem getting loot from the public dungeons. Yet you just continue to make senseless comments simply to try and mock me, contributing nothing to the thread. You really have nothing better to do than sit on your computer and try to mock people? I just feel sad for you and it's really not worth my time responding to your comments anymore. Enjoy your night, I truly hope you find something better to do with it.

rawne1980b16_ESO

Anthony45122 wrote: »

Enjoy your night, I truly hope you find something better to do with it.

It's 3.40am .... nothing much else to do at this time.

LilBudyWizerub17_ESO

I'm not sure what some of those people are doing. I was going to start a collection. Each has a special drop with a chance of it being rare. So I thought get one of each rare version and move on. I play with my wife and questing when she isn't on causes a bit of a problem helping her. So it was something to do while she isn't on. Even as just a way to kill time it just wasn't worth it. Some drop a variety of junk, but some drop nothing at all in 2:3 kills. It wasn't worth it to complete a collection and there are far better ways to level/make money. I don't really understand what they are doing.

As such I see little reason to stop them. I guess they're a waste of CPU. Just get them out of sight ought to be good enough because it's really hard to believe they actually have any impact on the economy.

knightblaster

People are farming the 100% drop rate soul gems, which, if you farm them relentlessly for hours, add up to a tidy sum of gold. Also the other drops are being farmed for mats, which is likely the lesser motive.

ShinChuck

Upcoming Patch Notes

Unfortunately, rather than taking time to actually look at the situation, let the playerbase smooth out, level, leave and so forth, they're already looking at putting loot timers on the public dungeon bosses.

In other words, in a month or two, when nobody is doing them anyway and there is no competition, the people who do want to farm them won't have that option. Essentially, the group complaining now will have moved on, and the other group who wants to farm will be out of luck.

We have missing items and bank slots that they're still deciding if they want to compensate people for, and yet, they're working on fixing an issue that's only related to it being the busy early days of an MMO and almost certainly will be pointless within a month or two.

Ah well. It's not that serious, I'm not even one of the farmers, it's just the principle of it.

rager82b14_ESO

Public Dungeon & Delve Boss Monsters – Also based on feedback, we will be placing a timer on how often you can get loot from public dungeon and delve boss monsters. This timer is shared across all boss monsters in public dungeons and delves. This will not impact loot timers for quest-specific monsters or overworld group bosses. Watch the patch notes for news on when this change will go live.

Thank you for continuing to share your feedback and concerns with us. We’ll continue to read and listen, and update you on known issues and their status.

NICE glad our feedback got listen too. Thank you team for understanding the problem.

Thanks all for the support! Glad they read the forums.

ShinChuck

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

NICE glad our feedback got listen too. Thank you team for understanding the problem.

Thanks all for the support! Glad they read the forums.

But the thing is, they *didn't* understand the problem. The problem is simply busy early days, will be a non-issue in a month or two. This will essentially only permanently punish people who enjoy farming while offering zero long term benefit to people who are angry it's hard for them to tag the boss a week into an MMO's life!

But I am happy for you, and happy they listen, even if misguided.

knightblaster

I think they're concerned not so much about people being interfered with as they are with the loot pump. That loot pump doesn't go away once the player zerg levels out of the content. People are farming them now for soul gems, which, when added up, generate significant gold even when vendored. I think that's what the motive for the change is -- not the temporary issue of people being irritated at the boss camps.

rager82b14_ESO

ShinChuck wrote: »

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

NICE glad our feedback got listen too. Thank you team for understanding the problem.

Thanks all for the support! Glad they read the forums.

But the thing is, they *didn't* understand the problem. The problem is simply busy early days, will be a non-issue in a month or two. This will essentially only permanently punish people who enjoy farming while offering zero long term benefit to people who are angry it's hard for them to tag the boss a week into an MMO's life!

But I am happy for you, and happy they listen, even if misguided.

Non issue? as long as you can get crafting mats and easy Soul Crystals it is going to always be a problem. Not only did this make a whole skill tree pretty pointless with how easy it is to farm crystals, but it also broke the balance of crafting.


In the end this was the right choice

rawne1980b16_ESO

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

In the end this was the right choice

However, announcing it wasn't the right choice.

Now people know it's going to be removed they will farm more than they have been to squeeze whatever they can out of it.

ShinChuck

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

Non issue? as long as you can get crafting mats and easy Soul Crystals it is going to always be a problem. Not only did this make a whole skill tree pretty pointless with how easy it is to farm crystals, but it also broke the balance of crafting.


In the end this was the right choice

Then nerf that specific loot. Or, as many, many people have noted, make the HP scale to the amount of people present, as is fairly standard in a lot of MMOs. There are many better ways to handle this than an archaic loot timer, so I stand by my assertion that the team *does not* understand the issue.

Ultimately, you win some, you lose some. I'm not trying to pick on your or anybody, simply keeping my (and many others') voice heard, so hopefully they'll reconsider their handling of this and decide on one of the myriad of better options.

Besides, isn't the right choice the choice that makes the most people happy, a middle-ground compromise that doesn't completely punish/alienate one group? I'm sure we could all get behind that!

zaria

knightblaster wrote: »

I think they're concerned not so much about people being interfered with as they are with the loot pump. That loot pump doesn't go away once the player zerg levels out of the content. People are farming them now for soul gems, which, when added up, generate significant gold even when vendored. I think that's what the motive for the change is -- not the temporary issue of people being irritated at the boss camps.

Decent chance for this or it would just be the quest bosses who would be an issue.

rager82b14_ESO

While I understand people defending it, it did give way to much loot too fast. It made power leveling crafting and just too much crystals. Nerfing the drop rate or how much we can get from it was the right call. You can't make every one happy in the name of balance.

Sojan

I cannot add much more to this than what has already been said, however, eliminating the drops is extreme.

Becareful who you report as being a BoT though, the person you may be trying to communicate with could be AFK, a non-English speaker, an introvert or simply not feeling like replying back to you; just because they do not reply does not make them a BoT.

For me, it is hard to make an "immersion" arguement versus anything else. So, I just grin and bear it and come back later to complete my quest. Game On!

Razzak

I saw my first bots in a game yesterday. Two groups of 5 chars, all dressed in their prison gear with a sword, running back and forth between the dungeon boss and one other respawning enemy.
Who do you report among those bots? I couldn't get all their names as they were standing so closely together.

Phantorang

Agree, diminishing returns on the bosses, or let us only loot it a few times, few enough to make it a waste of time for bots.

So what if the bots move to farming something else? Bots are a sickness, they will find weaknesses in the game, so wherever they move on to, we will need an adjustment there too.

Loot farming bots ruins the economy, takes away the value of the loot for those of us not using bots. That is more than a good enough reason to introduce diminishing returns.

Adernath

Imo the only way to deal with the bot issue is to make dualboxing impossible. Sorry if there are people who like to do it, but imo it ruins the game.

Lanatireb17_ESO

since the dungeon bosses are literally the ONLY way to get the soul things you need to rez and enchant stuff, taking loot away from the bosses will simply break those 2 mechanics.

Phantorang

Lanatireb17_ESO wrote: »

since the dungeon bosses are literally the ONLY way to get the soul things you need to rez and enchant stuff, taking loot away from the bosses will simply break those 2 mechanics.

So introduce Soul Stone loots from other mobs too, easy adjustment.

Korusus

Lanatireb17_ESO wrote: »

since the dungeon bosses are literally the ONLY way to get the soul things you need to rez and enchant stuff, taking loot away from the bosses will simply break those 2 mechanics.

You can buy soul gems from any Mages Guild (assuming this is what you're referring to).

Syzmicke

Some people i have seen doing this are not bot's or just there for the loot.They are there for the XP to level up faster loot is just a bonus to them.

snigernissen

Anthony45122 wrote: »

cromica81_ESO wrote: »

He'll let's remove the treasure chests and resource nodes so bots can't get them either

Do you see bots camping and taking every chest/resource node? No, because it doesn't happen. Do you see bots camping every public dungeon? Yes, because it does happen. There is a problem here and to deny it or make absurd comments like this does not help anything. As one person stated they have already changed the loot to them because they were aware this is a problem. The change they implemented is not enough though because it is still a problem. Just because you like something in the game doesn't mean that it is good for the game.

im sry but yes it does, ive reported several bots farming nodes around different places and they just ran in circles over and over and cleared out the entire place.. so yes it does happen

ShinChuck

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

While I understand people defending it, it did give way to much loot too fast. It made power leveling crafting and just too much crystals. Nerfing the drop rate or how much we can get from it was the right call. You can't make every one happy in the name of balance.

From what they've said, it's a timer on getting any loot from any dungeon bosses, rather than a nerf to the drop rate. So, we agree then that the right call was NOT what they did, and there are better ways to handle it? I had a feeling we'd agree when we got down to it!

Hopefully they'll listen and understand there's a better way to do it than planned! As so many others have said, there are better ways to do, and it'd be nice if they'd meet MMO standards.

badmojo

The stupid thing about all this is the other enemies in the dungeons give just as much loot (minus the soul gems) as the boss does. Arguably they give more loot since there are so many more of them. I've gotten countless blue items off regular mobs while waiting for the boss to spawn.

Removing the ability to get loot from a boss seems like a fix to stop people complaining about camping, it has nothing to do with improving the game. You'll notice they say "based on feedback" rather than saying they were addressing design flaws or balancing issues.

They made the game, some people complained and acted like it was ruining their experience. So they had to do... something.

byghostlightrwb17_ESO

cromica81_ESO wrote: »

The day I can't farm loot in an mmo(one of my favorite things to do) is the day I quit.

I like how people have issues with this but nobody wants to stop the people that constantly log in and out to loot motifs.

yet the very thing that allows you to farm a boss, allows all those nasty farmers farm the boss. I wouldn't go so far as to say remove all loot from a boss. Not many gamers would ever say that but I do believe there should be a timer on loot and/or dungeon itself. Id rather have one good chance a loot every hour or so, than to see the hideous system we have now. Not only is it stupid, but kills the fun of the game dead. If I have to sacrifice some loot to make it better, then so be it.

PS in a perfect world I would love to see those Motifs bound. Anything to stop seeing another WTS message about them.

badmojo

I don't understand how they can implement this timer on public dungeons, but not group dungeons.

If farming a group dungeon is perfectly fine, why not balance the public dungeons accordingly. If a group dungeon can farm (for example) 5 items an hour, the public dungeon better reflect that same ratio. Or else this is just going to gimp public dungeons to the point of "once and done" status and group dungeons will be the place to farm.

Or maybe that's their plan, stop people bitching about loot farming by moving the farming to behind closed doors(group dungeons) where we won't see others doing it, therefore they won't complain as much about it.



I just want them to fix up public dungeons so I'm not forced into groups all the time. As a player I enjoy running solo sometimes, but if they gimp solo dungeons, I'll be forced to do quests if I want to progress at all. But, I rather enjoy doing quests coop with friends.

So, what are my options after this fix? Join groups? What if they only want to do it once, what if they want the loot? What if I have to log off for a few minutes suddenly? My point is the solo dungeons offered solo players a place to go and farm/boost/grind for XP and gear. Nobody asked for solo dungeons to be so easy or the loot to be so plentiful, but that's how they made it.

Instead of balancing the solo dungeons according to the other parts of the game, they simply throw a timer on it. So, if I'm not interested in doing quests, and I've already done a solo dungeon, what then? Log off and wait until tomorrow? That's not how an mmo works. I shouldn't be punished because I have time to devote to gaming. I shouldn't be held to timers because other people don't want to do repetitive tasks, so they don't think I should be able to either.

It's the exact same as the bounty missions in Cyrodiil. Rather than scaling back the rewards, they applied a timer. Thing is, people weren't doing bountry mission after bounty mission just for the reward, they were doing it because they enjoy killing people over and over. If that goes along with a mission that pays out, of course they're going to take advantage. It's the same with me and solo dungeons, I actually enjoy spending hours defeating bosses and their grunts in dungeons. Sadly, they only offer very small dungeons and very easy bosses, so why am I being punished for trying to enjoy the little bit of solo content they've offered?

/rant

Korah_Eaglecry

zytukin wrote: »

Anthony45122 wrote: »

cromica81_ESO wrote: »

He'll let's remove the treasure chests and resource nodes so bots can't get them either

Do you see bots camping and taking every chest/resource node? No, because it doesn't happen.

Where do you think the bots will go if they can't farm in dungeons? Some people will use bots to take advantage of *whatever* they can. If they can't farm the bosses in a dungeon (either due to diminishing returns or single loot drops), then they will just farm something else for money. Possibly even chests and resource nodes. Then what? Get rid of them or limit them as well like cromica81_ESO said?

Need to make a way to eliminate the bots or severely hinder them instead of just pushing them somewhere else.

I've played a few games where the screen would shift slowly to the left or right so if a bot was running it would eventually be off target and couldn't farm. Maybe that could be done here? Would need to make the adjustment and direction variable (including looking up/down) so it can't easily be compensated for. Or maybe if a players char doesn't physically move from their x/y position after x mins they get auto disconnected (similar to disconnect via inactivity).

The last part would cause issues for RPers. RPers regularly stand in one place for long periods of time while typing into chat.

The first part would work to an extent.

Rajani Isa

rawne1980b16_ESO wrote: »

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

In the end this was the right choice

However, announcing it wasn't the right choice.

Now people know it's going to be removed they will farm more than they have been to squeeze whatever they can out of it.

If they don't announce it, when people hit it they'll complain about it being bugged.

Adernath wrote: »

Imo the only way to deal with the bot issue is to make dualboxing impossible. Sorry if there are people who like to do it, but imo it ruins the game.

And you do this how?

Can't do it by IP, too many things that could cause "legit" players (and there are people who multi-box and are legit players) to share an IP - campus network, family network, etc.

And many ways around limiting things to one instance of a program on a machine, not the least of which is other machines.

Rajani Isa

badmojo wrote: »

I don't understand how they can implement this timer on public dungeons, but not group dungeons.

If farming a group dungeon is perfectly fine, why not balance the public dungeons accordingly. If a group dungeon can farm (for example) 5 items an hour, the public dungeon better reflect that same ratio. Or else this is just going to gimp public dungeons to the point of "once and done" status and group dungeons will be the place to farm.

Or maybe that's their plan, stop people bitching about loot farming by moving the farming to behind closed doors(group dungeons) where we won't see others doing it, therefore they won't complain as much about it.

They don't want to make public dungeons a raid, but they want people to be able to tag the boss (first time through ISA, I didn't even realize there was a boss mob it was being killed so hard so fast. This time I did only because someone had a DK using the pull to remove it from the group of bots sticking around it.

badmojo

Rajani Isa wrote: »

badmojo wrote: »

I don't understand how they can implement this timer on public dungeons, but not group dungeons.

If farming a group dungeon is perfectly fine, why not balance the public dungeons accordingly. If a group dungeon can farm (for example) 5 items an hour, the public dungeon better reflect that same ratio. Or else this is just going to gimp public dungeons to the point of "once and done" status and group dungeons will be the place to farm.

Or maybe that's their plan, stop people bitching about loot farming by moving the farming to behind closed doors(group dungeons) where we won't see others doing it, therefore they won't complain as much about it.

They don't want to make public dungeons a raid, but they want people to be able to tag the boss (first time through ISA, I didn't even realize there was a boss mob it was being killed so hard so fast. This time I did only because someone had a DK using the pull to remove it from the group of bots sticking around it.

To me, that seems like a problem with spawn timing and the bosses HP. If they allow 20 people into the dungeon, the boss shouldn't be easy for only one person to kill. It should require at least some effort, or minimal effort of a group. Currently it's insane how quickly a boss dies when there's even 3 people standing there.

The levels of the solo dungeons are a joke. I can't remember ever dying to a boss, even in a one on one battle. I've even gone into solo dungeons that were 5 levels higher, with no problems. It took effort, but it should be next to impossible, like doing quests 5 levels higher.