Please remove the drops from public dungeon bosses

Dracovar

zaria wrote: »

Dracovar wrote: »

cromica81_ESO wrote: »

lordspyder wrote: »

The fact of the matter is that ZOS has said that camping a public dungeon boss is considered harassment under the TOS. It is against the rules, now we need to figure out how to fix it, I agree with the diminishing returns, I think that would work best, you still got a few times to get that cool item before you are cut off.

Also just a side note, make sure you are reporting these tools, camping these bosses is bannable.

A link to this would be nice.

If they really don't want people to do this then they just have to make them *** just like like the instance dungeons.

No, it's not bannable. If I want to kill a dungeon boss nonstop for 10 hours, I can.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/comment/597542/#Comment_597542

"...The act of manually farming these bosses, while possibly not very courteous of others who are trying to have a shot at the content too, is not against our Terms of Service."

Farming bosses is legal, farming quest bosses in a way who block others from completing the quest is not.

Right, griefing, but nobody is doing that that I've noticed, and certainly not me. I'm not killing the boss to "block" someone else from completing something. I'm not some high level camping a level 15 dungeon boss and one-shotting it the instant it spawns for the sole purpose of preventing other players from completing it, all the while gloating about it to them. Intent is everything. My intent is to kill the boss for loot, for items to deconstruct to level my crafting profession, and to get a few soul gems and potions, and it is just as valid a reason as any other, including killing the mob for a quest. Nobody can tell me their way of playing is more important than mine, or that their time comes before mine, that I have to defer to these "holy" quest completers, because their priorities are more important than mine. I have just as much right to kill the mob as anyone else, as many times as I want, and Zenimax said so; "...The act of manually farming these bosses, while possibly not very courteous of others who are trying to have a shot at the content too, is not against our Terms of Service." Killing a boss faster than another does NOT equal "blocking" or griefing.

trinta

I'm not convinced there's an actual problem here. But if there is, why is the first and only solution "Make it stop dropping loot!"? How about asking Zenimax to scale the HP based on the number of people in the immediate area when it spawns?

The complaints seem to stem from the boss dying too quickly. So treat the illness, not the symptoms.

ShinChuck

I keep repeating it, and these people shouting "Make them drop no loot!" "Ban the farmers!" "Put a one-day cool down (which will make their drops worthless, because who's going to be coming back for an L21 set of gear weeks down the line?)" are ignoring it: seriously, just wait.

Look, I know "patience" isn't enjoyable. I've had my bank poof: waiting sucked. But it's better to be patient then to flip out over a non-issue.

The biggest thing to note is that the game is new, and the majority of players are at the same level. Of course it's busier. It's going to be busier. But most MMOs have spawn-timing or player-tagging-conflict early on, and it nearly always smooths out.

Before Bethesda makes any major changes, they should wait for the playerbase to normalize, which means people leveling, becoming more spread out through the game, and Zenimax having time to see what the real, longterm effects are. It's utterly foolish to make any sweeping changes that will severely affect ToS-abiding players and what they enjoy before the full context is known.

As a short term solution? Do the dungeon not during prime time. Ask people to back off. No, it doesn't always work; yes, it does work regularly. I've asked people to back off for me and they have. I've backed off for others as well because they politely said, "Would you mind letting me get some hits in to finish the quest/dungeon?"

We can throw all the suggestions we want at Zenimax right now, but the fact is it would be unreasonable to make any wide-ranging changes before the playerbase has normalized beyond the "new game" rush, spread out, and developed lasting routines.

Dracovar

ShinChuck wrote: »

Before Bethesda makes any major changes, they should wait for the playerbase to normalize, which means people leveling, becoming more spread out through the game, and Zenimax having time to see what the real, longterm effects are. It's utterly foolish to make any sweeping changes that will severely affect ToS-abiding players and what they enjoy before the full context is known.

And that's exactly what they will probably do.

Dracovar

trinta wrote: »

I'm not convinced there's an actual problem here. But if there is, why is the first and only solution "Make it stop dropping loot!"? How about asking Zenimax to scale the HP based on the number of people in the immediate area when it spawns?

The complaints seem to stem from the boss dying too quickly. So treat the illness, not the symptoms.

That's actually a great idea! And so simple. The looters get to get loot, the questers get to complete their quests. Win/win.

Daverios

There is only one solution.

Solo no respawnable caves. Just like Swtors green doors.

Ppl who want to take thier time and have to kill every thing can. Players who want to wallhug and rush through can. People who want to farm can do it outdoors where farming should be. Not a fan of swtor but they had this right.

Aria

While I hate and report bots every chance I get, do not see the issue here?

Everyone that gets a hit in on the boss mob gets items as loot that is unique to each participant...or am I mistaken?

zaria

trinta wrote: »

I'm not convinced there's an actual problem here. But if there is, why is the first and only solution "Make it stop dropping loot!"? How about asking Zenimax to scale the HP based on the number of people in the immediate area when it spawns?

The complaints seem to stem from the boss dying too quickly. So treat the illness, not the symptoms.

I have problems seeing an problem myself, the only issue I see is blocking quests, however this is caused by non re-spawning bosses, not bosses who is farmed, if farmed you will be able to get an attack in and get credit after a couple of tries, if you was alone you might die so its not as bad

Bots is another issue, main solution to bots is to update the bot prevention filter and do purges.

badmojo

I don't like the idea about limiting the times you can run a dungeon and get loot, it's like making it so people can only collect a specific material node once in their ESO life.

Anthony is basically saying he doesn't enjoy farming bosses, so nobody else should be allowed to do it.

I will say that the bosses should be buff heavily. A public dungeon boss should not be so easily defeated solo. It should require 5+ people to down one. For one it would require the botters to setup more bots, making it more obvious, more costly, and more people would report them. If a single bots is noticed, the next time the boss spawns the players can let the bot die over and over.(Which I've already done in the current setup. It's actually a great feeling when you see a bot stop reviving itself because its ran out of soul gems.) Also, with a stronger boss, players would get more of a chance to help take him down.

But, the biggest problem with how the dungeons are setup, the people who cause the boss to spawn usually can't get within range to attack that boss if there are people are camping it. That is a big problem, when I know exactly where he will spawn, and sprint to it, but can't get there in time. I can imagine more than a few people have walked out of dungeons unknowingly passing a boss spawn, because they never even got to see it.

Ohioastro

I don't mind people camping if they want to get items. What I think people are missing is that making the boss the camping spot completely destroys immersion. You're heading deep within a cave to deal with the dangerous and vicious killer....who lasts 15 seconds before he drops in a sea of sparkles, and where the floor is littered with his dead doppelgangers.

Move the camping elsewhere, and I think everyone wins. We then can have public dungeons actually be difficult, and compensate with a nice quest reward or a quest reward key to a chest with good random loot (once).

dreildragb14_ESO

Aria wrote: »

While I hate and report bots every chance I get, do not see the issue here?

Everyone that gets a hit in on the boss mob gets items as loot that is unique to each participant...or am I mistaken?

This is wrong in a small part. You have to do a % of total damage to get the loot its part of their anti-troll system.

Last night for example 12 bots, and yes complete afk bots with 6 of them having the same exact name with a different letter at the end, were standing in the EXACT same place doing their most powerful spike attack on spawn before you can even see the boss spawn it was so fast. I had to wait 5 spawns and spam the spawn area to finally get the credit.

I mean it looked like a human hydra... one body with several heads bobbing around.

Now they already temp banned some for doing this same exact thing with those players being social while farming, so why should they stop now when its clear these people have got a 3rd party program doing the farming for them?

Dahlia_Bristow

Nerfing or removing the loot from public dungeon bosses is throwing the baby out with the bath water. There are so many other approaches that can be used that don't screw over players who are playing appropriately. I'm sure this will be addressed as time goes by. People need to stop obsessing over issues they encounter. The game is still very new and the devs will get to them eventually. Report them and move on.

Anthony45122

badmojo wrote: »

I don't like the idea about limiting the times you can run a dungeon and get loot, it's like making it so people can only collect a specific material node once in their ESO life.

Anthony is basically saying he doesn't enjoy farming bosses, so nobody else should be allowed to do it.

I will say that the bosses should be buff heavily. A public dungeon boss should not be so easily defeated solo. It should require 5+ people to down one. For one it would require the botters to setup more bots, making it more obvious, more costly, and more people would report them. If a single bots is noticed, the next time the boss spawns the players can let the bot die over and over.(Which I've already done in the current setup. It's actually a great feeling when you see a bot stop reviving itself because its ran out of soul gems.) Also, with a stronger boss, players would get more of a chance to help take him down.

First let me start off by saying that I do enjoy farming bosses and do so regularly. IN INSTANCED DUNGEONS. That way I am helping others progress by getting the dungeons done, I get better loot from instanced dungeon bosses than I do public dungeon bosses, I get access to tons of chests/heavy sacks that are throughout these dungeons with only 4 people to compete with, and generally just have more fun running the instanced dungeons than sitting in one spot and hitting a boss one time for loot.
Second i'll address comparing limiting the loot of these public dungeon bosses to only collecting a material node once in your ESO life. You get some gold, usually a filled soul gem, a white item, and a green or blue item from killing a public dungeon boss, then you can sit there for a few seconds and do it again without moving. Collecting a resource node gives 3-4 of that resource then you have to go find a new resource node. This is not a valid comparison at all and you're lying to yourself if you believe it is.
Thirdly i'll address your statement on public dungeon bosses needing to be buffed. Public dungeons are there to be a dungeon that solo players/small groups can do. Not everyone wants to find a group to go do the instanced dungeons so this gives solo players/small groups content intended for them. Buffing the bosses and making it impossible for them to do this content would be counter productive.
I'll end this by saying if you feel you need to call someone out in one of your posts you had better be sure you know what you are talking about. Don't try to call me out in a post when you have no idea who I am or what I enjoy doing. The rapid influx of items into the game by camping these public dungeon bosses is bad for the economy of the game. Sure you may love camping these bosses now but what happens when all the green/blue tannins and soul gems your getting become worthless because of this? I've said this before and I will say it again. Just because you like something in a game does not mean it is good for the game.

badmojo

Anthony45122 wrote: »

First let me start off by saying that I do enjoy farming bosses and do so regularly. IN INSTANCED DUNGEONS. That way I am helping others progress by getting the dungeons done, I get better loot from instanced dungeon bosses than I do public dungeon bosses, I get access to tons of chests/heavy sacks that are throughout these dungeons with only 4 people to compete with, and generally just have more fun running the instanced dungeons than sitting in one spot and hitting a boss one time for loot.
Second i'll address comparing limiting the loot of these public dungeon bosses to only collecting a material node once in your ESO life. You get some gold, usually a filled soul gem, a white item, and a green or blue item from killing a public dungeon boss, then you can sit there for a few seconds and do it again without moving. Collecting a resource node gives 3-4 of that resource then you have to go find a new resource node. This is not a valid comparison at all and you're lying to yourself if you believe it is.
Thirdly i'll address your statement on public dungeon bosses needing to be buffed. Public dungeons are there to be a dungeon that solo players/small groups can do. Not everyone wants to find a group to go do the instanced dungeons so this gives solo players/small groups content intended for them. Buffing the bosses and making it impossible for them to do this content would be counter productive.
I'll end this by saying if you feel you need to call someone out in one of your posts you had better be sure you know what you are talking about. Don't try to call me out in a post when you have no idea who I am or what I enjoy doing. The rapid influx of items into the game by camping these public dungeon bosses is bad for the economy of the game. Sure you may love camping these bosses now but what happens when all the green/blue tannins and soul gems your getting become worthless because of this? I've said this before and I will say it again. Just because you like something in a game does not mean it is good for the game.

So stick to your instanced group dungeons and leave the public dungeons to those who want to work together with random walkups to defeat a boss.

I love how you paint a picture of collecting nodes to be some super difficult journey across harsh lands to find one or two items. Where as in reality you run around to places you know and pick up stuff you know will be there. So, how exactly is that different than boss camping? I can run around Bal Foyen and pickup over 100 runes an hour.

You need to get down off your high horse and walk away. Go play some group dungeons and enjoy the game, stop crying over how other people want to play the game.

Anthony45122

Hahaha I do public dungeons plenty, but I go through once and kill the boss once. I want everything to be white on my map so I need to kill that boss to receive the achievement. But I shouldn't be able to do that so you can sit around a boss and hit it once every few seconds and keep getting loot? Come on now you're the one that needs to step off his high horse and realize the truth that this is bad for the game and is a problem. If it wasn't a problem they wouldn't have already changed the loot to them once and will likely do it again. Sure collecting nodes isn't hard but your comparison was a joke and I was simply revealing that.

zaria

Dahlia_Bristow wrote: »

Nerfing or removing the loot from public dungeon bosses is throwing the baby out with the bath water. There are so many other approaches that can be used that don't screw over players who are playing appropriately. I'm sure this will be addressed as time goes by. People need to stop obsessing over issues they encounter. The game is still very new and the devs will get to them eventually. Report them and move on.

This, main issue for support now is identifying and fixing bugs.
Bots is next on list, however keep reporting so they get an nice kill file, and yes this will be more off an cia type kill file than an outlook one

rawne1980b16_ESO

Anthony45122 wrote: »

Hahaha kid how about going back and reading the comments after that. I get my loot everytime I go to a public dungeon so try your flaming elsewhere.

Seriously?

The best retort you can come up with is "kid"?

You just roll that credibility up and throw it out the window cupcake.

That wasn't flaming. That was pointing out that you come across whiny, petulant and selfish. Pointing out the blatantly obvious isn't flaming but feel free to throw another "kid" my way.

For future reference, when you say that to older folk we don't take it as an insult. You want to make us feel young again then you go right ahead.

I can't give you points for originality either.

Although I do tend to note that the ones who use "kid" as a comeback are usually in their teens or early 20's. Always makes me chuckle.

Gwarok

zaria wrote: »

Bots is next on list, however keep reporting so they get an nice kill file, and yes this will be more off an cia type kill file than an outlook one

Would be nice if we were able to TURN ON NAMEPLATES for easier identification.

dreildragb14_ESO

zaria wrote: »

Dahlia_Bristow wrote: »

Nerfing or removing the loot from public dungeon bosses is throwing the baby out with the bath water. There are so many other approaches that can be used that don't screw over players who are playing appropriately. I'm sure this will be addressed as time goes by. People need to stop obsessing over issues they encounter. The game is still very new and the devs will get to them eventually. Report them and move on.

This, main issue for support now is identifying and fixing bugs.
Bots is next on list, however keep reporting so they get an nice kill file, and yes this will be more off an cia type kill file than an outlook one

People do know the developers can do both at the same time? Art guys don't do debugging and the GM's/CSR's don't work on animation or networking and coding.

Let the company's coders fix the bugs, art department fix the graphics, and GM/CSR handle the spammers and botters.

It all can be done at the same time!

Anthony45122

rawne1980b16_ESO wrote: »

Seriously?
The best retort you can come up with is "kid"?
You just roll that credibility up and throw it out the window cupcake.
That wasn't flaming. That was pointing out that you come across whiny, petulant and selfish. Pointing out the blatantly obvious isn't flaming but feel free to throw another "kid" my way.
For future reference, when you say that to older folk we don't take it as an insult. You want to make us feel young again then you go right ahead.
I can't give you points for originality either.
Although I do tend to note that the ones who use "kid" as a comeback are usually in their teens or early 20's. Always makes me chuckle.

You read one post and assumed from it and posted an ignorant comment. You obviously did not read the other comments posted by me. Sorry but only children or very immature adults post something like you did without even looking at the rest of the context, so if you are an adult that's even worse. Blatantly obvious? HAHAHA what a joke. You disagree with my opinion so you tried to post a comment that was totally false. The only reason I have posted on here is for the good of this game. What input have your comments had? Looking ignorant while posting a silly comment then getting mad when I put you in your place is all i've seen. But feel free to continue to get angry about it if you wish, just shows how immature you are.

Anthony45122

Gwarok wrote: »

Would be nice if we were able to TURN ON NAMEPLATES for easier identification.

There are a few add-ons out there that should help you out to easily identify other players names.

Resipsa131

There is a significant amount of unnecessary hostility in this thread; the developers are closely watching trends and they'll do something about it or not. Enjoy the game and realize that there are going to be aspects that you don't quite care for but ultimately you still enjoy the game.

badmojo

Anthony45122 wrote: »

Hahaha I do public dungeons plenty, but I go through once and kill the boss once. I want everything to be white on my map so I need to kill that boss to receive the achievement. But I shouldn't be able to do that so you can sit around a boss and hit it once every few seconds and keep getting loot? Come on now you're the one that needs to step off his high horse and realize the truth that this is bad for the game and is a problem. If it wasn't a problem they wouldn't have already changed the loot to them once and will likely do it again. Sure collecting nodes isn't hard but your comparison was a joke and I was simply revealing that.

It's only a problem if you think it's a problem.

No, my comparison is exactly correct. You're just getting too bogged down in the details to see the bigger picture. Remove yourself from the situation, view it objectively from an outsiders perspective.

If I want item A I go to location B.

If I want runes, I go to Bal Foyen.

If I want soul gems, I go to solo dungeons.

The developers wouldn't have created the game the way it is, if they didn't intend people to be able to kill a boss multiple times. There is obviously many ways they could change it to prevent boss camping, just like there are ways they could change rune nodes to prevent farming. But, it's part of the game.

They're likely to change many things in this game. It's called balance, and it takes a long time to perfect. That doesn't mean those elements of the game were not working as intended. There's a huge difference between fixing/removing something and simply tweaking it. I wouldn't actually mind more tweaks to the boss loot, but that's not what you're saying in this thread. You're calling for the loot to be completely removed. You want the dungeons to be a once through, then never again.

I can't help but feel like this all boils down to people like you thinking group dungeons should yield the best(and most) loot, and anything that threatens that ideology needs to be nerf'ed or removed. It's like you think group dungeons are the proper way to play, and killing bosses in a dungeon is exploiting. Which is crazy, because it's not exploiting, and your group dungeons are just one piece of the pie.

Which is why I say, step down off your high horse, and accept that people play the game in different ways. I'm not trying to get your group dungeon loot removed or limited to once play through, because that's stupid, which is what I think of your suggestions here.

Korusus

My 2 cents:

I don't care if its bots, I don't care if its other players farming, I don't care what it is: the core problem is content across the board is trivialized. Guild Wars 2 solved this to some extent by scaling the bosses to how many players were nearby. As it stands the only challenging content in the game is solo instances and group dungeons. Public dungeons are a joke and I refuse to believe that is intended.

knightblaster

Many "normal" players are farming the bosses for soul gems and other drops for crafting mats -- basically getting in 10-20 kills in about 30 minutes. I don't think they will nerf that, honestly.

Anthony45122

They have already tweaked the loot to make some of the blues unique to allow you to only be able to get that loot once but that hasn't stopped people from camping the bosses. They were attempting to balance it with that tweak but it still is not balanced. You can't really think the game developers want 10-20 people sitting at the same spot for hours hitting a boss once every few seconds can you? These are problems that only arise or are made obvious once the game went live. The problem is the loot from these bosses still makes it worth it to camp them.

I'm not saying that instanced dungeons are the greatest and should drop the best loot. But something that can be done by pressing 1 button every few seconds should not be dropping such good loot. Good loot should be dropped by things that take effort to kill or at random, not constantly with no effort like these bosses do.

Also the OP of the thread called for no loot on the bosses. I agreed to this only because I already see the influx of the green/blue tannins and soul gems making an impact on the price of these items. I would be much happier if it were was only lootable once every 30 minutes, or one time only loot, or a form of diminishing returns that lets you get a blue the first kill, green the second kill, white the 3rd kill, then you get no more loot, or having the bosses scale to how many players are around. I think any of those would be totally fine fixes to the problem at hand.
I know people play the game in different ways and I love that about this game. But when a part of the game is having a negative impact on the game I am against it. I am not against farming for loot. I am against things that I see to cause a lot of disappointment in players and will have a negative impact on the economy of the game. If they come up with a fix that both sides will be happy about I will be ecstatic and I truly hope they do. That's what these forums are for. For us to post our opinions and hope that the game developers listen. So please, there is no need to be rude and call my suggestions or opinions stupid as I know there are many others out there that feel the same way I do.

7788b14_ESO

The fact of the matter is, people who say, 'the fact of the matter' should always add a link. I think ZOS would say they need to fix it as opposed to we.

7788b14_ESO

As problems go. Bots so far have never stopped me from completing a dungeon run. I'm more concerned about being dropped out of game, system lag, losing my inventory. Unless that stuff gets fixed there won't be an economy to ruin. People will move on and this place will be a ghost town.

Korusus

7788b14_ESO wrote: »

As problems go. Bots so far have never stopped me from completing a dungeon run.

To me the problem is not the inability to complete the dungeon, I think even with bots and farmers its still fairly simple to get a hit on the boss. The problem in my opinion is being denied a challenging boss fight. At some point we shouldn't even call them bosses and just call them what they are: loot pinatas.

Bosses in public dungeons are not being used in a way that is interesting. Farming is boring and trivial content does not make for good game design. I regret that the guild and main quests only happen every 5-10 levels because the rest of the content is faceroll easy.

rawne1980b16_ESO

Anthony45122 wrote: »

But feel free to continue to get angry about it if you wish, just shows how immature you are.

Point out where i'm getting angry .... please enlighten me?

I think you seem to be confusing mockery with anger.

Again, questioning my maturity isn't insulting in the least.

You made a silly comment, I mocked it. You tried to retort (putting me in my place ... that I laughed at ... delusions of mediocrity flows through you) and I mocked you again.

I see a pattern forming. Although I am highly amused that you seem to think you are "putting me in my place" ... that made my night.