random daily dungeon infiltrated by dlc dungeon....

SilverBride · September 2

tomofhyrule wrote: »

You mean to tell us that the population who would queue for basegame only and the population who would queue for DLC only are anywhere close to each other in size?

No, I don't think they are near each other in size. I think there are way less that want to queue for DLC dungeons, which makes it more unfair in my mind that the larger group is expected to fill the smaller groups' choices.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · September 2

Just drop your ESO sub and you wont get as many annoying dungeons in your queue.
Additionally if you really want to do a good RND farming session just queue with 2 other friends and then have one of you bring an unsubbed lvl 10 character - you'll only get Banished 1, Spindle 1 or Fungal 1. Just remember to vote kick the alt before you start the run so it avoids getting xp.

This is the most efficient way of farming RND's if you're looking for transmutes or affix scripts. Just Rotate your characters with friends if you dont have many geared - each of you 'carries' 1 run whilst the other 2 bring 'trash' characters to be carried.

FurryCandyHearts · September 2

Demalb16_ESO wrote: »

Doing the random daily dungeon with different characters is a great way to farm xp. Now that the chapter or seasonal event include the dungeon I can't do a random daily without stumbling on naj caaldesh or some long dungeon that I don't want to do. I saw a lot of people (me included) log out in such an event. Now I don't think that this is good for the game because if a tank leave you have to wait a lot to get another. there should be a way to do a random daily BASE GAME dungeon or a random daily DLC dungeon. That would solve a lot of problems.

this is exactly why i wont buy the lastest chapter... i want the option to not sub eso+ and not have any dlc dungeons

tomofhyrule · September 2

SilverBride wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

A Random Base Dungeon queue and a Random DLC Dungeon queue would still fill groups in need. Separating them would not stop that. The only difference is that players will ALL get placed where they want to be.

Queueing for specific dungeons to avoid DLCs would completely invalidate the rewards for queueing random so that is not a solution.

I don't understand why there is a problem with separate queues. We already have separate ones for normal and veteran dungeons, so why not this?

Because it increases the chances of longer wait times.

Using simple numbers lets say there are an average of 10 "Helpers" in the Base Game queue at any given time, and 1 Helper in the DLC queue. The Base Game queue can continue to keep the queue moving. Meanwhile, the poor schlubs in the DLC queue stand around forever if any of their groups needs more than 1 spot filled. And vice-versa if DLC has a steady supply of helpers while base game does not.

If the "Helpers" were all in the same queue, then everything moves along.

This is an issue because many players do not want to run DLC dungeons yet they are being forced to so that those that want DLC dungeons can have shorter wait times. This is not fair.

Having separate queues will greatly increase player satisfaction.

SilverBride wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

You mean to tell us that the population who would queue for basegame only and the population who would queue for DLC only are anywhere close to each other in size?

No, I don't think they are near each other in size. I think there are way less that want to queue for DLC dungeons, which makes it more unfair in my mind that the larger group is expected to fill the smaller groups' choices.

And herein lies the problem: you think that it will "increase player satisfaction" for the person stuck trying to farm for a DLC set, but their queue is popping even slower than a BG queue.

So I ask again: if they had two queues, and the 'basegame' queue gave only 1/3 of the rewards of the 'DLC' queue, would that work out? Because then the people who just want a fast FGI would be happy to charge through... but if they want to get the rewards, then they need to specifically help little Timmy farm Pillar of Nirn.

Why should the "harder" DLC queue offer the same rewards as the "easy" ones. If you're admitting that the basegame queue will be way more populated than the DLC one, then it would follow that there should be some incentive to going into the DLC queue.

Daoin · September 2

there is incentive, knowing many players are forced there early on to get insulted and try not to be one of them by showing them if can be done it will be done, but heres the thing anyone here knows that a long term playing tank and healer can help even the lowest of cp or gear through vet dlc but decide to throw out the ' what do you think your doing here's' first, either way if one in 10 does not reach the end goal atleast they tried. better than i can for some i met, sure those top of the line players should be farming normal fungal one for transmutes unhindered and without a need for group but why bother with all the rubbish later in vet dlc, an incemtive that alot of players simply cannot do indefinately it is just too tiring

DenverRalphy · September 2

SilverBride wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

A Random Base Dungeon queue and a Random DLC Dungeon queue would still fill groups in need. Separating them would not stop that. The only difference is that players will ALL get placed where they want to be.

Queueing for specific dungeons to avoid DLCs would completely invalidate the rewards for queueing random so that is not a solution.

I don't understand why there is a problem with separate queues. We already have separate ones for normal and veteran dungeons, so why not this?

Because it increases the chances of longer wait times.

Using simple numbers lets say there are an average of 10 "Helpers" in the Base Game queue at any given time, and 1 Helper in the DLC queue. The Base Game queue can continue to keep the queue moving. Meanwhile, the poor schlubs in the DLC queue stand around forever if any of their groups needs more than 1 spot filled. And vice-versa if DLC has a steady supply of helpers while base game does not.

If the "Helpers" were all in the same queue, then everything moves along.

This is an issue because many players do not want to run DLC dungeons yet they are being forced to so that those that want DLC dungeons can have shorter wait times. This is not fair.

Having separate queues will greatly increase player satisfaction.

Not fair for whom exactly?

It's not about who gets shorter wait times. It's about groups in need receiving assistance. If a player is running Random Dailies for any reason other than to offere assistance, that's on the player. Fair has nothing to do with it.

There's a reason the word "Random" is in the title of the activity.

Daoin · September 2

true sort of, in a way i guess or simply just wanting to join a random group for something random and new or a change or challenge but as i said earlier there is random and theres the games version of random then theres the forums version of it all not of them mix well with each other, the random grouups in-game are anything but random 1000 times to 1, sure beats running around trying to spoon feed content to people or could be made the way an individual player wants it, deary me if test server and mods dont do that already i dont know what will ever

spartaxoxo · September 2

DenverRalphy wrote: »

It's not about who gets shorter wait times. It's about groups in need receiving assistance. If a player is running Random Dailies for any reason other than to offere assistance, that's on the player. Fair has nothing to do with it.

There's a reason the word "Random" is in the title of the activity.

I agree with you 100% on this one. It should also be noted that the express purpose of Activity Finder is to help fill groups to anyone in need. That is purpose first and foremost.

People who want the "charity" reward without having to do the work the "charity" needs aren't being unfairly penalized. The criteria for getting them is clearly explained. You do a random dungeon rather than the specific ones you want. The rewards are all obtainable elsewhere. There is no exclusives. Players are being given a payment for their service to their fellow player.

Anyone who wants those rewards can obtain them. Anyone who wants to run a specific dungeon may do so.

Daoin · September 2

hmm must be skipping the people aswell as the adds here, well i guess i met a few people theat did not like being told to wipe in fungal 1 a few times but again, that does not suprise me in eso forum, i just hope one day someone somewhere undestands some of us eso shoes dont mind what we do, and people get what the desrve when stepping into other peoples

scrappy1342 · September 2

tomofhyrule wrote: »

If they did that, then there should be different rewards for each queue: 1 transmute and "one daily writ" worth of XP for doing a basegame, and the 10 transmutes and the normal random XP for doing a DLC.

...because the entire point of the random queue is to backfill dungeons for people who need groups. People aren't looking for help with their FGI speedrun, so there's no way it should be as rewarding as helping someone get through Black Gem Foundry.

Come to think of it, I really think it should have a dynamic reward anyway
Higher reward for DLC than basegames

Higher reward for vet than normals

Bonus rewards if someone in the group completed the dungeon quest (to encourage people to allow people to quest)

have not read through all the comments, but they do this in other games and it works GREAT. they should be different queues with different rewards because doing FG1 and doing a dlc are NOT the same amount of work. if you have different queues, then ppl don't mind queueing for the harder things because they will get a reward that fits it

this was not as big of an issue before because if ppl didn't want the dungeons, they just didn't buy them. but now the only way to do that was to not buy solstice.

spartaxoxo · September 2

scrappy1342 wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

If they did that, then there should be different rewards for each queue: 1 transmute and "one daily writ" worth of XP for doing a basegame, and the 10 transmutes and the normal random XP for doing a DLC.

...because the entire point of the random queue is to backfill dungeons for people who need groups. People aren't looking for help with their FGI speedrun, so there's no way it should be as rewarding as helping someone get through Black Gem Foundry.

Come to think of it, I really think it should have a dynamic reward anyway
Higher reward for DLC than basegames

Higher reward for vet than normals

Bonus rewards if someone in the group completed the dungeon quest (to encourage people to allow people to quest)

have not read through all the comments, but they do this in other games and it works GREAT. they should be different queues with different rewards because doing FG1 and doing a dlc are NOT the same amount of work. if you have different queues, then ppl don't mind queueing for the harder things because they will get a reward that fits it

this was not as big of an issue before because if ppl didn't want the dungeons, they just didn't buy them. but now the only way to do that was to not buy solstice.

The power discrepancy in those other games wasn't as large as this one. I think drastically reduced rewards for doing it on normal e.g. no transmutes and reduced exp would make sense for other games. But, in this game, the rewards being the same make sense because then people don't have a reason to queue for stuff they're not ready to do. The queue times are already long with x dungeon barely ever succeeding.

Daoin · September 2

player solution = if it talks acts and moves like an eso flake, leave group to fight another time, i would be willing to log in and wipe million times now just for a laugh in a good group, nobody likes to admit defeat but sometimes its all part of the fun (if you can do it sober) for sure lol, sometimes eso has been more of a bar than a game, throw free gold and paid for crowns into the mixture and hey presto we have another recipe for disaster brewing. i swear i am a man of constant sorrow in this game, dunno why i put myself through it

scrappy1342 · September 2

spartaxoxo wrote: »

scrappy1342 wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

If they did that, then there should be different rewards for each queue: 1 transmute and "one daily writ" worth of XP for doing a basegame, and the 10 transmutes and the normal random XP for doing a DLC.

...because the entire point of the random queue is to backfill dungeons for people who need groups. People aren't looking for help with their FGI speedrun, so there's no way it should be as rewarding as helping someone get through Black Gem Foundry.

Come to think of it, I really think it should have a dynamic reward anyway
Higher reward for DLC than basegames

Higher reward for vet than normals

Bonus rewards if someone in the group completed the dungeon quest (to encourage people to allow people to quest)

have not read through all the comments, but they do this in other games and it works GREAT. they should be different queues with different rewards because doing FG1 and doing a dlc are NOT the same amount of work. if you have different queues, then ppl don't mind queueing for the harder things because they will get a reward that fits it

this was not as big of an issue before because if ppl didn't want the dungeons, they just didn't buy them. but now the only way to do that was to not buy solstice.

The power discrepancy in those other games wasn't as large as this one. I think drastically reduced rewards for doing it on normal e.g. no transmutes and reduced exp would make sense for other games. But, in this game, the rewards being the same make sense because then people don't have a reason to queue for stuff they're not ready to do. The queue times are already long with x dungeon barely ever succeeding.

that's another great thing about different queues. you can put different requirements on them. you can see the levels there to the side. and the two that are locked up above. i was on a lower level alt when i took the screenshot. one is locked to me because i'm not lvl 100 on that one. the other is because i have not unlocked certain end game dungeons. some of them have item level requirements of course we don't have item level here >.> but they could link it to achievements or cp or something. they could even put specific achievements in the game needed to unlock those queues

spartaxoxo · September 2

scrappy1342 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

scrappy1342 wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

If they did that, then there should be different rewards for each queue: 1 transmute and "one daily writ" worth of XP for doing a basegame, and the 10 transmutes and the normal random XP for doing a DLC.

...because the entire point of the random queue is to backfill dungeons for people who need groups. People aren't looking for help with their FGI speedrun, so there's no way it should be as rewarding as helping someone get through Black Gem Foundry.

Come to think of it, I really think it should have a dynamic reward anyway
Higher reward for DLC than basegames

Higher reward for vet than normals

Bonus rewards if someone in the group completed the dungeon quest (to encourage people to allow people to quest)

have not read through all the comments, but they do this in other games and it works GREAT. they should be different queues with different rewards because doing FG1 and doing a dlc are NOT the same amount of work. if you have different queues, then ppl don't mind queueing for the harder things because they will get a reward that fits it

this was not as big of an issue before because if ppl didn't want the dungeons, they just didn't buy them. but now the only way to do that was to not buy solstice.

The power discrepancy in those other games wasn't as large as this one. I think drastically reduced rewards for doing it on normal e.g. no transmutes and reduced exp would make sense for other games. But, in this game, the rewards being the same make sense because then people don't have a reason to queue for stuff they're not ready to do. The queue times are already long with x dungeon barely ever succeeding.

that's another great thing about different queues. you can put different requirements on them. you can see the levels there to the side. and the two that are locked up above. i was on a lower level alt when i took the screenshot. one is locked to me because i'm not lvl 100 on that one. the other is because i have not unlocked certain end game dungeons. some of them have item level requirements of course we don't have item level here >.> but they could link it to achievements or cp or something. they could even put specific achievements in the game needed to unlock those queues

A player in this game can be max cp and have 15 times less dps than someone with less cp than them. It's actually super extreme the power imbalance between floor and ceiling and I'm not sure how they could possibly weed that out short of making people prove their capabilities, which I don't think many would be willing to do.

ETA

Don't get me wrong. I think the gap has gotten smaller over the years and that it's fine if people don't want to do all that. It's just I think the gap is pretty large and I think that's probably why the rewards are currently the same.

scrappy1342 · September 2

dunno either. zos has created that situation themselves. but giving different queues gives ppl the option to opt out of the higher end ones. yeah, you may get some ppl wanting to get carried for the better rewards like you were saying, but more than likely they'll get booted if they truly can't do it. as it is now, you'll get lumped with those ppl anyways <shrug> along with the ones who would have opted out to not waste your time

SilverBride · September 2

tomofhyrule wrote: »

And herein lies the problem: you think that it will "increase player satisfaction" for the person stuck trying to farm for a DLC set, but their queue is popping even slower than a BG queue.

Why can't the players wanting DLC dungeons join guilds that run dungeons and form groups with like minded players? Or form groups with friends? Why depend on players that don't want to be there to fill their groups?

Daoin · September 2

or did not want to be there until they met the group they got, on that note why do people actually get upset at the though of untradeable crowns ? i mean if you know someone truly well enough to be spending cash on them im sure there are other ways to get crowns to them, and why cant i find a group to wipe with after hearing leave game froom one to another a million times in dungeons, woops current eso playerbase numbers shouold already be telling me that sorry

Aislinna · September 2

SilverBride wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

And herein lies the problem: you think that it will "increase player satisfaction" for the person stuck trying to farm for a DLC set, but their queue is popping even slower than a BG queue.

Why can't the players wanting DLC dungeons join guilds that run dungeons and form groups with like minded players? Or form groups with friends? Why depend on players that don't want to be there to fill their groups?

My guess is for the same reason that the players wanting DLC only normal dungeons don't join guilds that run dungeons and form groups with like minded players? Or form groups with friends? Why depend on players that don't want to be there to fill their groups?

SilverBride · September 2

Aislinna wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

And herein lies the problem: you think that it will "increase player satisfaction" for the person stuck trying to farm for a DLC set, but their queue is popping even slower than a BG queue.

Why can't the players wanting DLC dungeons join guilds that run dungeons and form groups with like minded players? Or form groups with friends? Why depend on players that don't want to be there to fill their groups?

My guess is for the same reason that the players wanting DLC only normal dungeons don't join guilds that run dungeons and form groups with like minded players? Or form groups with friends? Why depend on players that don't want to be there to fill their groups?

There would be plenty of players queueing for base game dungeons. Those wanting DLC dungeons are the ones with the potentially longer queues, so they should look for their own solution.

DenverRalphy · September 2

SilverBride wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

And herein lies the problem: you think that it will "increase player satisfaction" for the person stuck trying to farm for a DLC set, but their queue is popping even slower than a BG queue.

Why depend on players that don't want to be there to fill their groups?

Now you're trying to twist the narrative by laying responsibility onto the players who like to play content you don't want to do? C'mon..

The players queued up for DLC dungeons didn't pick anybody to join their group. They merely made themselves available for volunteers to draw from.

SilverBride · September 2

DenverRalphy wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

And herein lies the problem: you think that it will "increase player satisfaction" for the person stuck trying to farm for a DLC set, but their queue is popping even slower than a BG queue.

Why depend on players that don't want to be there to fill their groups?

Now you're trying to twist the narrative by laying responsibility onto the players who like to play content you don't want to do? C'mon..

The players queued up for DLC dungeons didn't pick anybody to join their group. They merely made themselves available for volunteers to draw from.

I'm saying that players that only want to queue for Base Game dungeons should have the right to queue for content they prefer, too.

DenverRalphy · September 2

SilverBride wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

And herein lies the problem: you think that it will "increase player satisfaction" for the person stuck trying to farm for a DLC set, but their queue is popping even slower than a BG queue.

Why depend on players that don't want to be there to fill their groups?

Now you're trying to twist the narrative by laying responsibility onto the players who like to play content you don't want to do? C'mon..

The players queued up for DLC dungeons didn't pick anybody to join their group. They merely made themselves available for volunteers to draw from.

I'm saying that players that only want to queue for Base Game dungeons should have the right to queue for content they prefer, too.

They can. It's called queueing for a specific dungeon.

tomofhyrule · September 2

SilverBride wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

And herein lies the problem: you think that it will "increase player satisfaction" for the person stuck trying to farm for a DLC set, but their queue is popping even slower than a BG queue.

Why depend on players that don't want to be there to fill their groups?

Now you're trying to twist the narrative by laying responsibility onto the players who like to play content you don't want to do? C'mon..

The players queued up for DLC dungeons didn't pick anybody to join their group. They merely made themselves available for volunteers to draw from.

I'm saying that players that only want to queue for Base Game dungeons should have the right to queue for content they prefer, too.

And they do. It's called "queue for specific dungeons."

If your entire goal of queueing is "I want the rewards for being a helpful human being," then you get what people need. You should not get the rewards for helping others if your entire goal is not to help others.

Al_Ex_Andre · September 2

ESO_player123 wrote: »

Yes, that would be nice. I'd rather queue for DLC dungeons where I have a higher chance of having pieces missing for the stickerbook than run the Fungal Grotto or the City of Ash.

This for me, but it's for my own interest. Healthy for the game/gamers?

Hapexamendios · September 2

Random is exactly that. You take what you get. You want specific content, line up for specific dungeons. Doesn't matter if you want all base game or all DLC.

Daoin · September 2

for sure my last laugh was just yesterday in a specific queued dungeon when i left because the tank contacted me through pm as ihad forgot to swith back to offline mode wanted to kick a player for having too much exp while things were going just fine, waste of long queue time ? not sure yet not figured out if it was just a group of trolls or now that already knew each other, but i decided to pm the guy and tell him before i left anyway,to save any of the usual drama i told him i just left and what tank pm'ed to me about kicking, 50/50 wether it was troll group because i had seen all that before too but they come up with new things all the time in those grouups can never be sure whats true and whats not

Aislinna · September 2

SilverBride wrote: »

Aislinna wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

And herein lies the problem: you think that it will "increase player satisfaction" for the person stuck trying to farm for a DLC set, but their queue is popping even slower than a BG queue.

Why can't the players wanting DLC dungeons join guilds that run dungeons and form groups with like minded players? Or form groups with friends? Why depend on players that don't want to be there to fill their groups?

My guess is for the same reason that the players wanting DLC only normal dungeons don't join guilds that run dungeons and form groups with like minded players? Or form groups with friends? Why depend on players that don't want to be there to fill their groups?

There would be plenty of players queueing for base game dungeons. Those wanting DLC dungeons are the ones with the potentially longer queues, so they should look for their own solution.

Should players who only want base game dungeons also not look for their own solution? Seems to me the system is there, use it as it is, or find your own solutions, as you suggest.

SilverBride · September 2

DenverRalphy wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I'm saying that players that only want to queue for Base Game dungeons should have the right to queue for content they prefer, too.

They can. It's called queueing for a specific dungeon.

tomofhyrule wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I'm saying that players that only want to queue for Base Game dungeons should have the right to queue for content they prefer, too.

And they do. It's called "queue for specific dungeons."

And have to give up the random dungeon rewards to benefit those queueing for specific dungeons.

tomofhyrule wrote: »

If your entire goal of queueing is "I want the rewards for being a helpful human being," then you get what people need. You should not get the rewards for helping others if your entire goal is not to help others.

This has nothing to do with being helpful human beings. It has to do with being able to choose the content we want to participate in, which should be an equal choice for all players.

Daoin · September 2

well i have seen lots of words here tonight folks in an effort to get away with the same behaviour ingame so it be known, was informative, thankyou

DenverRalphy · September 2

SilverBride wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I'm saying that players that only want to queue for Base Game dungeons should have the right to queue for content they prefer, too.

They can. It's called queueing for a specific dungeon.

tomofhyrule wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I'm saying that players that only want to queue for Base Game dungeons should have the right to queue for content they prefer, too.

And they do. It's called "queue for specific dungeons."

And have to give up the random dungeon rewards to benefit those queueing for specific dungeons.

tomofhyrule wrote: »

If your entire goal of queueing is "I want the rewards for being a helpful human being," then you get what people need. You should not get the rewards for helping others if your entire goal is not to help others.

This has nothing to do with being helpful human beings. It has to do with being able to choose the content we want to participate in, which should be an equal choice for all players.

And therein lies the rub. You want the benefits of being a good samaritan without actually being one.

You already can choose the content you wish to participate in. You can queue specific. Heck, you can list a non specific "Random Base Game Dungeon Run" in the group finder to advertise to like minded individuals if you wish.

But you won't. Because it's the Helping Hand reward you're truly after.