PTS Update 46 - Feedback Thread for Subclassing

madmufffin

gorynych_88 wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

Yet several scorepushing WR holding groups, tri prog groups, and hm prog groups are all excited to have new and refreshing gameplay to build strats around to change how they've approached certain content for years. But sure endgame is gonna die because damage went up

I'm happy for those mad minmaxers who want to play even completely broken game (and tbh that part of community don't really care what project they play, and how they help to kill one-by-one last years with their askings and apllauds to crazy core mechanic-breakers, it's cross-MMO sickness nowadays sadly, and even if they are not bigger part of communities they are too loud) and see the "fun" in this only caus of their EVEN BIGGER NUMBARHS without caring about anything else. That's why I competite them with WoW-funserver players...
But what about other players? Those that don't want to refuse of class-exclusive gameplay and don't need to simplify the game with even more numbers of DPS caus even now that's too much in exact this game? You don't care I see, but maybe devs at least still care for the noticeable part of the community, who knows... It will be just sad to see another great game killed by own developers in the end, like there not enough examples.

PS: I don't even speak of PvP ofc , there are enough words by people that also play it, even in this topic before.

I mean you're literally talking about the endgame dying and those are the people in the endgame. People in the endgame are happy to see new variety and those who don't participate in the game are free to do literally whatever they want because high numbers are completely irrelevant for the vast majority of the game.

PrinceShroob

My intense opprobrium towards this system has been well-documented elsewhere; you would say that I had the opposite of fun with it.

That said, I do have feedback that is not balance-related: during the initial quest, you can ask to subclass into your current class, which is somewhat confusing.

gorynych_88

madmufffin wrote: »

I mean you're literally talking about the endgame dying and those are the people in the endgame. People in the endgame are happy to see new variety and those who don't participate in the game are free to do literally whatever they want because high numbers are completely irrelevant for the vast majority of the game.

When I told that endgame is dying? I just told it will start to die soon after release of this features if devs won't change the course of upcoming updates (nerfing pure classes) untill it's too late and untill the work went too far to roll it back. Better to think from different sides at the start what it can bring and listen player's opinions in the end, that are halved to each side now in the best case (thou even at this forums we can see that there are a bit more ppl unhappy and those ppl are caring not about only DPS numbers (like raidDPS is an issue in this game or was ever since 2020 or so, or like this game's endgame ever was a thing of just numbers, maybe it became for some ppl after WoWers came from dead WoW last years only...) at any costs, even if it will cost a broken, imbalanced and dead in the end game. Most of PvPers with brains and at least a little farsight are very unhappy tho. But they're not endgamers too it seems, if listen to your unreasonable sarcasm. And still half of the vettrial raiders that are upset with this announcements (and todays PTS especially) are not exist. I see.

The thing you name "variety" is just a total gamebreaker (not speaking of class lore etc even) in the form it started to be added, that's all. It only looks like variety but for real it just makes game a mess of unreasonable numbers, breaks last remnants of balance, enough killed by hybridisation, nerfs of monster-sets, added imba-mythics and scribing, and other superstructures that still didn't balanced good enough. And it kills pure classes for now with started fixes to class abilitites, and in the other hand shrinks non- meta/crazyminmaxing gaming to the final end exactly for endgame content (if things will go on like this you couldn't run trials as comfortable as before on pure classes, you couldn't counter anyone with new-OP-multiclass in PvP with pure classes etc etc) so it can't be named variety. It's truly gamebreaker and gamechanger that will violate people to only play broken mechanics and mad builds (new tight meta will appear very soon tho) or refuse of endgame content at all. So it can't but affect game online if nothing will change till release.

Anyways you can yet believe that if things will go as it seems planned now - endgame will be more alive than ever (dozen of guilds will enjoy imbalanced and broken game then it's ok, others are not worthy by your words and don't even touch endgame even now so).
Have a good night, Don't think we have more reasons to speak here, we are going to offtopic enough.

Alchimiste1

madmufffin wrote: »

gorynych_88 wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

Subclassing isn't going to kill the endgame. It's going to raise the floor for a lot of people who haven't been able to take that step up and open up a whole new realm of possibilities for those at the top of the endgame. If your definition of the endgame is solely getting a checkmark on your Pithkas, then your definition is the issue and not subclassing.

"Subclassing" (it's not subclassing as greatly pointed up here, it's multiclassing and without limits it's just stupidity) will exactly kill the endgame in trials and PvP if they will go the way they already started. They should right now refuse of nerfing class abillitites, set that ones they changed back, and think about just limiting skills power on apply for non-native classes. It's the only way to keep at least some balance somehow. If they will prolongue to move this way they move now it will be the sad and awful fatality for the gameplay and not the light you want to see for some reason.

PS: Ideally if add this updates - it should be only 1 skill line allowed to change and not more, and some weakenings for abilities themsleves (like many people already offered in dedicated topics and here) but only when you use it on another class, not for the base ability. Caus it's the worst ever idea but x2 even - to break original unique class spells (that became usable again only last years after all the experiments with DoTs, weapon skill lines etc etc)... It means from the very start that you won't play pure classes as you played before even close and you could play ONLY with damn hybrids (out of running delves and quests ofc). Even when CP were reworked and any other changes of mechanics (even worst ones) for years weren't affect characters power that noticeable as it already seems will be this time. So I just wondered how changes like this could be even started by devs from straight breaking class powers and how some players can not understand these simple things.

Yet several scorepushing WR holding groups, tri prog groups, and hm prog groups are all excited to have new and refreshing gameplay to build strats around to change how they've approached certain content for years. But sure endgame is gonna die because damage went up

yeah okay. The guys who are min maxing everything because they want to be #1 are going to be trying all sorts of wacky/inefficient different build combinations right?.

I give it a week before they all run the exact same thing. Its what I would do.

madmufffin

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

gorynych_88 wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

Subclassing isn't going to kill the endgame. It's going to raise the floor for a lot of people who haven't been able to take that step up and open up a whole new realm of possibilities for those at the top of the endgame. If your definition of the endgame is solely getting a checkmark on your Pithkas, then your definition is the issue and not subclassing.

"Subclassing" (it's not subclassing as greatly pointed up here, it's multiclassing and without limits it's just stupidity) will exactly kill the endgame in trials and PvP if they will go the way they already started. They should right now refuse of nerfing class abillitites, set that ones they changed back, and think about just limiting skills power on apply for non-native classes. It's the only way to keep at least some balance somehow. If they will prolongue to move this way they move now it will be the sad and awful fatality for the gameplay and not the light you want to see for some reason.

PS: Ideally if add this updates - it should be only 1 skill line allowed to change and not more, and some weakenings for abilities themsleves (like many people already offered in dedicated topics and here) but only when you use it on another class, not for the base ability. Caus it's the worst ever idea but x2 even - to break original unique class spells (that became usable again only last years after all the experiments with DoTs, weapon skill lines etc etc)... It means from the very start that you won't play pure classes as you played before even close and you could play ONLY with damn hybrids (out of running delves and quests ofc). Even when CP were reworked and any other changes of mechanics (even worst ones) for years weren't affect characters power that noticeable as it already seems will be this time. So I just wondered how changes like this could be even started by devs from straight breaking class powers and how some players can not understand these simple things.

Yet several scorepushing WR holding groups, tri prog groups, and hm prog groups are all excited to have new and refreshing gameplay to build strats around to change how they've approached certain content for years. But sure endgame is gonna die because damage went up

yeah okay. The guys who are min maxing everything because they want to be #1 are going to be trying all sorts of wacky/inefficient different build combinations right?.

I give it a week before they all run the exact same thing. Its what I would do.

I mean most of the endgame community outside of scorepush cores has been doing off meta stuff because it's more interesting and exciting than just playing DK every single night. That trend will continue for a lot of hm and tri groups.

Narvuntien

Hey I didn't realise that you can have as many skill lines across different classes, I thought it was just one extra skill line from another class. Being able to use two subclasses is frankly going to be broken and horrible eventually.

I think it is going to be fun to start, but then the shine will wear off and everyone will be the same. I would have liked it to be limited to a single skill line/subclass, because then you would have people being sorcplars and nightwardens, and you would still want people covering different aspects of classes. Your starting class will actually matter, and you won't just be taking 3x DPS skill lines and putting the most DPS together possible.

This issue isn't so much the top players, it's the middle players. They will either take it too seriously or, simply because they are less skilled, want an optimised build to maximise their otherwise weaker DPS. The MTG for this type of player is a "Spike" and you don't need to be an actual tournament grinder to be one. They are a player who isn't having fun unless they are running at 100% optimised power. This will then slowly filter through to players that are just having fun but don't really know what to do and will follow the crowd with thier builds.

I am definitely a "johnny" and I enjoy fiddling around with possibilities, but I want to complete content so eventually so my whacky creations tend to get shaved back to the norm over time.

Yioth

Subclassing needs a LOT of balancing. It will probably be a good 6 months to a year before subclassing is close to something we would call reasonably balanced. What if a temporary passive was put in place?

On PTS give players a passive in the Soul Magic skill line that reduces players outgoing damage, outgoing healing, incoming healing, and increases incoming damage by X per subclassed skill line used. On the LIVE server this wouldn't be a passive, instead it'd be a baseline part of subclassing. But because it's an optional passive on PTS players will be able to test out how skill lines feel without the passive.

The passive doesn't need to be exactly what I laid out. The point I want to get across is the possibility of having a negative passive associated with subclassing. And since PTS can test builds without the passive, the balancing team can continue balancing as if the passive didn't exist. Then when things are a bit more balanced, remove the passive

ForumBully

PrinceShroob wrote: »

My intense opprobrium towards this system has been well-documented elsewhere; you would say that I had the opposite of fun with it.

That said, I do have feedback that is not balance-related: during the initial quest, you can ask to subclass into your current class, which is somewhat confusing.

No fun with it at all huh? In the whole two days it's been in existence?

madmufffin

ForumBully wrote: »

PrinceShroob wrote: »

My intense opprobrium towards this system has been well-documented elsewhere; you would say that I had the opposite of fun with it.

That said, I do have feedback that is not balance-related: during the initial quest, you can ask to subclass into your current class, which is somewhat confusing.

No fun with it at all huh? In the whole two days it's been in existence?

Sorc tank mains aren't handling the Hardened Ward changes well

PrinceShroob

ForumBully wrote: »

PrinceShroob wrote: »

My intense opprobrium towards this system has been well-documented elsewhere; you would say that I had the opposite of fun with it.

That said, I do have feedback that is not balance-related: during the initial quest, you can ask to subclass into your current class, which is somewhat confusing.

No fun with it at all huh? In the whole two days it's been in existence?

If I wanted to play Warden, I'd play my Warden; if I wanted to play Dragonknight, I'd play my Dragonknight; and so on. As it stands, this system offers nothing for me other than something to be directed to joylessly grind out in my limited free time by doing the same damn content over and over again.

madmufffin wrote: »

Sorc tank mains aren't handling the Hardened Ward changes well

Frankly, I'd detest this system even if it came with no accompanying balance changes.

READLER

Did the sublcassling quest teach you everything you had to learn for using this system?
Yes, it is not difficult for a more or less experienced player to understand the system.

Do you plan to use this feature when it goes live?
I would not like to use a subclass system because I like the original classes and the search for the optimal build within the limitations of these classes.
However, in the current form, it seems like I'll have to do some kind of ark-necro-nb anyway in order to at least be able to get into the vet content. I believe that before introducing the ZOS subclasses, SERIOUS work should have been done to balance and bring the classes to common indicators. Because some classes are very poorly suited for subclassing (hi sorс) The developers could say something like "we plan to introduce subclasses in 2026, and in 2025 we will seriously address the balance in preparation for the new system." Or simply prohibit the transfer of passive abilities of classes, let only the ultimate and active skills be transferred.

Zyaneth_Bal

madmufffin wrote: »

gorynych_88 wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

Subclassing isn't going to kill the endgame. It's going to raise the floor for a lot of people who haven't been able to take that step up and open up a whole new realm of possibilities for those at the top of the endgame. If your definition of the endgame is solely getting a checkmark on your Pithkas, then your definition is the issue and not subclassing.

"Subclassing" (it's not subclassing as greatly pointed up here, it's multiclassing and without limits it's just stupidity) will exactly kill the endgame in trials and PvP if they will go the way they already started. They should right now refuse of nerfing class abillitites, set that ones they changed back, and think about just limiting skills power on apply for non-native classes. It's the only way to keep at least some balance somehow. If they will prolongue to move this way they move now it will be the sad and awful fatality for the gameplay and not the light you want to see for some reason.

PS: Ideally if add this updates - it should be only 1 skill line allowed to change and not more, and some weakenings for abilities themsleves (like many people already offered in dedicated topics and here) but only when you use it on another class, not for the base ability. Caus it's the worst ever idea but x2 even - to break original unique class spells (that became usable again only last years after all the experiments with DoTs, weapon skill lines etc etc)... It means from the very start that you won't play pure classes as you played before even close and you could play ONLY with damn hybrids (out of running delves and quests ofc). Even when CP were reworked and any other changes of mechanics (even worst ones) for years weren't affect characters power that noticeable as it already seems will be this time. So I just wondered how changes like this could be even started by devs from straight breaking class powers and how some players can not understand these simple things.

Yet several scorepushing WR holding groups, tri prog groups, and hm prog groups are all excited to have new and refreshing gameplay to build strats around to change how they've approached certain content for years. But sure endgame is gonna die because damage went up

By several you mean one and a half that’s left

Reginald_leBlem

If you have 1 character at level 50 with all 3 class skills lines, that should be it, subclassing should have those skill lines at 50. Completely ridiculous that you have to again level the subclassing skill lines to 50. It's adding grind for grindings sake, and no one will thank you for it, no one is going to find it fun.

Zyaneth_Bal

ForumBully wrote: »

PrinceShroob wrote: »

My intense opprobrium towards this system has been well-documented elsewhere; you would say that I had the opposite of fun with it.

That said, I do have feedback that is not balance-related: during the initial quest, you can ask to subclass into your current class, which is somewhat confusing.

No fun with it at all huh? In the whole two days it's been in existence?

To be honest 2 days was enough for me to get fed up with it. There is always the obviously best choice and the rest, it quickly starts to feel bland and boring.

madmufffin

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

ForumBully wrote: »

PrinceShroob wrote: »

My intense opprobrium towards this system has been well-documented elsewhere; you would say that I had the opposite of fun with it.

That said, I do have feedback that is not balance-related: during the initial quest, you can ask to subclass into your current class, which is somewhat confusing.

No fun with it at all huh? In the whole two days it's been in existence?

To be honest 2 days was enough for me to get fed up with it. There is always the obviously best choice and the rest, it quickly starts to feel bland and boring.

We have two iteration patches coming that will likely completely shift the balance of things. You just want to be upset about it.

Zyaneth_Bal

madmufffin wrote: »

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

ForumBully wrote: »

PrinceShroob wrote: »

My intense opprobrium towards this system has been well-documented elsewhere; you would say that I had the opposite of fun with it.

That said, I do have feedback that is not balance-related: during the initial quest, you can ask to subclass into your current class, which is somewhat confusing.

No fun with it at all huh? In the whole two days it's been in existence?

To be honest 2 days was enough for me to get fed up with it. There is always the obviously best choice and the rest, it quickly starts to feel bland and boring.

We have two iteration patches coming that will likely completely shift the balance of things. You just want to be upset about it.

You say likely when it’s in fact not. You just want to think I want to be upset about it.

Ragnarok0130

tomofhyrule wrote: »

If we could have Subclassing restricted from leaderboarded content like that, I even think Subclassing should be even more permissive in normals. The double skill point cost is just an unnecessary barrier to entry, and it should only be a single skill point like everything else. I also think that you should be able to take as many lines from a class as you want and trade away all three of your parent lines. It’d be great for people to trade all three class lines for all three lines of another to finally have a Class Change in-all-but-name.

Please ZOS, consider keeping Subclassing as normal only, at least for the time being. It would still allow the players who want the flexibility to roleplay their characters how they want to still do so, but without making life miserable for endgame. ESO should not go out of its way to disenfranchise any of its players, and making a Subclassing-not-available-in-leaderboarded-content compromise would solve a lot of problems at once.

I like almost all of what you said Tom, but I think subclassing should not be in normal dungeon or trial content because the purpose of normal is to train for vet and you need to train how you will fight in vet. That's my only critique of your well thought out post.

The double skill point spend for subclass skills is honestly stupid and I hope ZoS will roll that back to the normal 1 skill point. If there's to be any penalty for subclassing it has to be in performance or sustain and not skill point spend or it's not really a penalty.

Varana

I'll be happy to be proven wrong, but what I expect from the upcoming adjustments:
More nerfs that try to prevent unintended powercreep combinations.
But because this is ZOS, they will do that in a way that maybe prevents 50% of these combinations, but it will 100% downgrade non-multiclassed characters, other unproblematic multiclasses, and of course support roles.
I don't really want to be this pessimistic, but previous experience and this patch again show that we should keep expectations low.

Erickson9610

I want to see Subclassing go live as it is. Maybe some more Class skills should be tweaked and adjusted before release, and some UI elements should be made less confusing, but the system itself is great!

dcam86b14_ESO

-Did the sublcassling quest teach you everything you had to learn for using this system?
yes



Is there anything confusing about the UI or the methods to engage with Subclassing?

yes the entire system is confusing, there should be a clean cut way to get to the skill lines without all the screens and tabs. Just centralize it to a shrine, no npc helper just send us to the scyring area and have a table there.

How long did it take you to level up a subclassed skill line?
I did the template so instant.

Do you plan to use this feature when it goes live?
yes


Did you have fun experimenting with the system?
yes Ive been playing since beta as templar healer and I am loving that I can refresh my toon without having to reroll and sleigh through all that content / passives/skyhards/guilds again.

xylena_lazarow

I love it!!! Builds are still going to be defined by busted sets, but at least there's now endless ways to do MDW/Vatesh pressure or Acuity/Balo burst or whatever your playstyle is.

Pain point: double spectral bow (Grim Focus) is completely insane design for PvP, please remove

Pain point: Rushing Agony automation proc still not nerfed, still turns large scale PvP upside down

SeaGtGruff

Uh, if you all plan to keep that screenshot in this thread so you can discuss it, I recommend editing it to blur out the profanity, as in its current state it is clearly bypassing the profanity filter, and might end up deleted by the mods unless you fix it first.

Soundinfinite

I do not agree about making the Subclassing system nerfed. That is, if you subclass that subclass is weaker than its normal Class iteration. If this is done, there will be no point to subclassing from the start. It will be dead on arrival for not just endgame but also PVP, and even half of regular players. (See how they had to buff Scribing as all the skills underperformed)

There is no point to the system if the system arrives delivering weaker options than what already exist in the game. Even for people who just want to run around in the world however they choose. If they are already having issues with overworld, then subclassing with even WEAKER skills will make overworld that much harder for them...why do it?

What subclassing is doing, is HIGHLIGHTING the issues the community has had with the BALANCE of the game. The endless complaints of classes not being equal. It is working against the devs themselves, and showing how weak and useless certain skill lines in the game are, how underpowered certain classes are, and how the game in its current state has been operating in a lop sided development when it comes to classes, skills, and playstyles.

Thus, the pain points that the community have been begging to be revamped, buffed, and made effective are becoming glaring when they can be simply dropped for their alternatives. While skills, classes, and skill lines that are strong and dominant are going to become defacto and universally used.

The issues arising from subclassing are the same issues that already exist in the game now. Just amped up in juiced up like roidrage. In turn, they are mostly nerfing the bulk of classes to make sure subclassing isn't fully uncontrollable, which in turn is making the weaker classses, skills, and skilllines, become that much further behind, and making their states as NON SUBCLASSED options or (Pure Classes) become FURTHER behind, and at a disadvantage compared to using the subclass system...thus making subclassing required to keep up....this is destroying class identity, and the heart of the game at its core.

Subclassing is an awesome idea, that is being injected into an unbalanced game, and causing chaos, while generating a multitude of nerfs, and destroying specific classes (Hello Sorc). And the community is running scared that this means more nerfs are on deck to remedy the outlyers that are skyrocketing because of the combinations that are being created and the power they can wield....

It is a huge balancing issue, not an issue with subclassing itself or the idea of it...which absolutely offers a wider range of gameplay possibilities in theory and could be a really fun injection into the game.

If the devs and developers truly want to bring this to ESO, it means right now, these next five weaks need to be very all hands on deck at ZOS, as they rework, BUFF, and iron out, all these pain points, with HEAVY HEAVY HEAVY work on balancing...that isn't in the end just NERFING half the game, but actual reworks of skills, skillines, classes, and the balance that exists between them as well as all the damage types that classes bring to the table (I.E Shock vs FLame or Hemorrhage vs Defile) etc and so forth.

Of course further tweaks will likely be done down the line at later dates, but a truck load need to happen now and not at the expense of gutting classes as they currently operate...(Again hello Sorc).

This honestly could be a great addition to ESO, but it NEEDS a lot of finesse to pull off....and the ESO community would have likely been more pumped if they would have just added more weapon skill line choices...like Gauntlets for a dual wield like magicka based weapon...and possibly one of the launrdy list of weapons stam wants added (Spear/Bow)....Different bow types poison/defile/physical/fire/ice/lightning) etc...so forth....

Still, now that this is here, the cats out-of-the-bag, I don't want them just to scratch it, dump it, or destroy the system, I want ZOS to actually handle the situation they have created, and listen to the community, and actually review their balancing decisions, and look deep and hard at their classes and design choices and truly revamp and buff what needs to be while yes, nerfing or scaling back, that which has been so dominant and out-of-control now for so long.

AtriaKhorist

Soundinfinite brings up the key point IMHO - Subclassing highlights long-ignored issues.

I love the system and will use it, but what ZOS needs to do is to finally bring ignored skills and skill lines up to speed.

madmufffin

Soundinfinite wrote: »

I do not agree about making the Subclassing system nerfed. That is, if you subclass that subclass is weaker than its normal Class iteration. If this is done, there will be no point to subclassing from the start. It will be dead on arrival for not just endgame but also PVP, and even half of regular players. (See how they had to buff Scribing as all the skills underperformed)

There is no point to the system if the system arrives delivering weaker options than what already exist in the game. Even for people who just want to run around in the world however they choose. If they are already having issues with overworld, then subclassing with even WEAKER skills will make overworld that much harder for them...why do it?

What subclassing is doing, is HIGHLIGHTING the issues the community has had with the BALANCE of the game. The endless complaints of classes not being equal. It is working against the devs themselves, and showing how weak and useless certain skill lines in the game are, how underpowered certain classes are, and how the game in its current state has been operating in a lop sided development when it comes to classes, skills, and playstyles.

Thus, the pain points that the community have been begging to be revamped, buffed, and made effective are becoming glaring when they can be simply dropped for their alternatives. While skills, classes, and skill lines that are strong and dominant are going to become defacto and universally used.

The issues arising from subclassing are the same issues that already exist in the game now. Just amped up in juiced up like roidrage. In turn, they are mostly nerfing the bulk of classes to make sure subclassing isn't fully uncontrollable, which in turn is making the weaker classses, skills, and skilllines, become that much further behind, and making their states as NON SUBCLASSED options or (Pure Classes) become FURTHER behind, and at a disadvantage compared to using the subclass system...thus making subclassing required to keep up....this is destroying class identity, and the heart of the game at its core.

Subclassing is an awesome idea, that is being injected into an unbalanced game, and causing chaos, while generating a multitude of nerfs, and destroying specific classes (Hello Sorc). And the community is running scared that this means more nerfs are on deck to remedy the outlyers that are skyrocketing because of the combinations that are being created and the power they can wield....

It is a huge balancing issue, not an issue with subclassing itself or the idea of it...which absolutely offers a wider range of gameplay possibilities in theory and could be a really fun injection into the game.

If the devs and developers truly want to bring this to ESO, it means right now, these next five weaks need to be very all hands on deck at ZOS, as they rework, BUFF, and iron out, all these pain points, with HEAVY HEAVY HEAVY work on balancing...that isn't in the end just NERFING half the game, but actual reworks of skills, skillines, classes, and the balance that exists between them as well as all the damage types that classes bring to the table (I.E Shock vs FLame or Hemorrhage vs Defile) etc and so forth.

Of course further tweaks will likely be done down the line at later dates, but a truck load need to happen now and not at the expense of gutting classes as they currently operate...(Again hello Sorc).

This honestly could be a great addition to ESO, but it NEEDS a lot of finesse to pull off....and the ESO community would have likely been more pumped if they would have just added more weapon skill line choices...like Gauntlets for a dual wield like magicka based weapon...and possibly one of the launrdy list of weapons stam wants added (Spear/Bow)....Different bow types poison/defile/physical/fire/ice/lightning) etc...so forth....

Still, now that this is here, the cats out-of-the-bag, I don't want them just to scratch it, dump it, or destroy the system, I want ZOS to actually handle the situation they have created, and listen to the community, and actually review their balancing decisions, and look deep and hard at their classes and design choices and truly revamp and buff what needs to be while yes, nerfing or scaling back, that which has been so dominant and out-of-control now for so long.

One would hope that the universal disdain for the sorc lines being shown right now doesn't fall on deaf ears, but I won't hold my breath on that being changed until u47 when they have data showing that 0% of players are including it in their subclasses.

master_vanargand

ESO has lost all its individuality.
It's over. I'm sick of all these stupid updates.
At the very least, should only be able to choose one the skill line of subclass.
The two subclasses are uncontrollable and unbalanceable. It's like a hell game.
I think, next year ESO will have half as many players.

Tigertron

So you nerfed theory crafting.

I know I am in a minority but I play games for a challenge. A way to use my brain to solve problems. It’s my real job as well.

Trivializing content appeals to some I guess. Like playing tic-tac-toe with a 5yo. Can beat them every time and you feel powerful.

Not much left here for me todo. But I have to ask. Why did you buff arc beam and give it to everyone?

It’s like using a cheat code. Whatever.

acastanza_ESO

I just wanted to note here some feedback that this shouldn't be called subclassing, this is more correctly "multiclassing", this isn't something additional you take "under" your specific class (a subclass). A subclass would be something additional added under the main class like additional storm skill lines for a storm sorcerer subclass - taking skills from another class is traditionally, and more accurately known as multiclassing.

Wereswan

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

I just wanted to note here some feedback that this shouldn't be called subclassing, this is more correctly "multiclassing", this isn't something additional you take "under" your specific class (a subclass). A subclass would be something additional added under the main class like additional storm skill lines for a storm sorcerer subclass - taking skills from another class is traditionally, and more accurately known as multiclassing.

It's what ZOS chose to call it, and referring to it another way is only going to be needlessly confusing.

It's a valid point, but you work with what you're given.

Galagladi Dragonblood

@ZOS_Kevin Could you ask the Combat Team pls, why every percentual damage boost is either Increase Damage over Time, damage over all or Increase Class Skill Damage, if you see besides Spell/Weapon Damage, Crit Chance and Crit Damage? Cant you do it like Deadly Aim, Biting Aura, Thaumaturge or Master-at-Armsi n the CPs so there is more variation and more specification? It would be nice too understand this choice.