Feedback on Yesterday's Battleground Brawl Livestream

SkaraMinoc

We had a 16+ hour power outage in the PNW this morning, so I missed the stream. I just finished rewatching it and I have a few takeaways.

• Brian is super friendly and is probably genuinely fun to be around
• Brian's BG build was not ideal (Hist Sap, Mara's Balm, Oakensoul, Spell Wall)
• Brian's comment after getting stomped 0-500 was "that's okay, it's about the medal score you get"
• Brian saying that SypherPK has a good kd ratio but they were only 6 kills 5 deaths
• Brian unable to answer SypherPK's question about what ability was pulling them all in (Rush of Agony) and what Arcanist ability was stunning them (Rune)

Now I know some of it was about trying to keep the stream momentum going and to keep it friendly and casual for everyone to watch and enjoy. But my impression is that Brian doesn't represent the sweaty PvPers very well. This is not surprising to me given the way the Competitive Leaderboard is designed.

I appreciate the 2-sided 4v4 "competitive" battlegrounds. Personally I think they have potential. But I think they need to be designed specifically for veteran PvPers with an actually competitive leaderboard based on win/loss. Or at a minimum, split the leaderboards in two, one based on win/loss and another based on medal score.

Title changed by @ZOS_Kevin

Personofsecrets

So Sypher's first experience back was getting Rush combod...

Orbital78

I'm kind of surprised they haven't put an monster only flag on rushing agony yet. It gets exploited a lot in Cyrodiil. Pulling you like 20m.

DeadlySerious

Personofsecrets wrote: »

So Sypher's first experience back was getting Rush combod...

Oh please, please tell us that there is a video of this out there somewhere. I'm begging you!

I'd like nothing more than to see ZOS employees go to Cyrodiil and get yanked around into RoA death balls over and over again, and from way out of the official range of the set. Maybe if they see just how RoA just sucks the fun out of Cyrodiil they'll make some changes to the set. It just seems like they don't know because they've never seen it first hand, so they need to. That's all. Not wishing ill on zos employees, just saying I think things might change if they saw how bad RoA is to deal with first hand.

Poss

Sypher’s question “what is that Arcanist hard cc called” was so awkward. It was met with complete silence from the head PvP guy because he just didn’t know. And then Brian’s claim he wasn’t a tank despite running Maras, Hist, 40k health and literally walking around the entire arena perma blocking. We’re currently plagued with an excruciating tank meta right now and I really can’t see this changing when the guy responsible for balance is rocking a Templar bubble tank himself.

This whole stream told me all I needed to know about the Dev’s opinion of PvP. I was looking forward to watching this, I grew up watching Sypher play ESO but I walked away feeling an intense sensation of emptiness. They really do not have a clue what the PvP playerbase want even Sypher looked bored out of his mind. This was exactly why he left the game in the first place

fizzylu

Poss wrote: »

This whole stream told me all I needed to know about the Dev’s opinion of PvP.

I feel like it's been pretty clear where they stood the day the new BGs went live.

DemonicGoat

Yea, That stream was insightful as to why things are they way they are around combat,pvp,bgs,etc. (IMO)

Syphers question to Brian at 01:33:40

The VOD is here:

10th anniversary..

Poss wrote: »

Sypher’s question “what is that Arcanist hard cc called” was met with complete silence from the head PvP guy because he just didn’t know. And then Brian’s claim he wasn’t a tank despite running Maras, Hist, 40k health and literally walking around the entire arena perma blocking.

This whole stream told me all I needed to know about the Dev’s opinion of PvP. I walked away feeling an intense sensation of emptiness. They really do not have a clue what the PvP playerbase want even Sypher looked bored out of his mind. This was exactly why he left the game in the first place

dinokstrunz

Yeah the stream was painful to watch. ZoS really aren't doing themselves any favours with showcases like that.

Theignson

There have been ~100 posts pointing out how broken and buggy RoA is. RoA is game breaking, gives no warning, pulls (with lag) way beyond the 12M (already a HUGE perimeter, larger than anything else in the game!)-- if you happen to be fighting somewhere in the vicinity you get pulled with no warning, NO CC IMMUNITY, so then you are cc'ed, then the death dump of ulti's from the mindless bot balls doing this.

It's sad that they seem unaware of what RoA is and how badly it's broken despite now years of posts. Maybe nobody from the developer team reads the posts anymore?

kevkj

The marketing team or whoever set up the event did not do Mr Wheeler any favours. He's not a streamer by trade and he was expected to PVP (which did not appear to be something he did that often) and socialize/engage with streamers he presumably has never spoken to all while having to be cognizant that he is representing ZOS on the main stream. I do understand the novelty of having the lead combat dev playing on stream but I do not think it added to the experience positively. He could have been in the call, just talking to stream during matches and only chatting to the streamers in between.

fizzylu

kevkj wrote: »

He's not a streamer by trade and he was expected to PVP (which did not appear to be something he did that often) and socialize/engage with streamers he presumably has never spoken to all while having to be cognizant that he is representing ZOS on the main stream.

I thought he was a big Cyrodiil player? But yeah, either way I don't think that's what I would say is the problem with the stream.... nope, not even close.

Rohamad_Ali

Sypher sure picked a strange time to return. This update is a huge stinker.

Stafford197

Finally had a chance to see some of stream…. the people in charge are far less knowledgeable than most Vet players and also enjoy the tank meta. In their eyes, the current balance is in a good spot.

I think we already knew there was no hope for meaningful PvP changes, but at least for me the stream confirms it. Imagine thinking the tank meta will one day go away and then watching Brian’s build

And to be clear this is nothing against them on a personal level! Some people take it too far. It’s just a game. At the same time though, we should temper our expectations about balance ever improving.

Jaimeh

DemonicGoat wrote: »

Yea, That stream was insightful as to why things are they way they are around combat,pvp,bgs,etc. (IMO)

Syphers question to Brian at 01:33:40

The VOD is here:

10th anniversary..

Poss wrote: »

Sypher’s question “what is that Arcanist hard cc called” was met with complete silence from the head PvP guy because he just didn’t know. And then Brian’s claim he wasn’t a tank despite running Maras, Hist, 40k health and literally walking around the entire arena perma blocking.

This whole stream told me all I needed to know about the Dev’s opinion of PvP. I walked away feeling an intense sensation of emptiness. They really do not have a clue what the PvP playerbase want even Sypher looked bored out of his mind. This was exactly why he left the game in the first place

This is worrisome, they don't know or play their own game enough, this is the lead combat designer right there.

Jaimeh

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Sypher sure picked a strange time to return. This update is a huge stinker.

It could be a sponsored stream, they do these from time to time with other streamers who've left the game, like kevduit, etc.

VixxVexx

Isn't he the Lead Combat Designer? Not just the PvP specifically? Not making it better.

colossalvoids

Looked up some moments and it's... Yeah.

TechMaybeHic

I looked at the thread fate several times thinking it was a necro post seeing Sypher mentioned. Haven't been paying attention to ESO to know the stream happened because it has gotten bad. This makes it look so much worse

Cooperharley

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Sypher sure picked a strange time to return. This update is a huge stinker.

He didn’t pick a time to return. He was likely paid a big sum of money due to his millions of subscribers to bring more attention to the game, but all it did was display his boredom even more so, so it likely hurt them more than anything.

I promise you Sypher is going straight back to Fortnite at 100mph and deleting ESO off his PC 🤣 I love this game but man, if that stream didn’t show off the pain points I don’t know what will!

TDVM

This stream is a clear representation that they don't understand how to play pvp and what pvp is. It is not professional to make such streams and disrespect to the pvp audience.

Thumbless_Bot

Cooperharley wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Sypher sure picked a strange time to return. This update is a huge stinker.

He didn’t pick a time to return. He was likely paid a big sum of money due to his millions of subscribers to bring more attention to the game, but all it did was display his boredom even more so, so it likely hurt them more than anything.

I promise you Sypher is going straight back to Fortnite at 100mph and deleting ESO off his PC 🤣 I love this game but man, if that stream didn’t show off the pain points I don’t know what will!

If this is the case then we have to give zos credit for trying and investing time and potentially money to bring new players to the game. We desperately need this.

My gripe is that they lean on a dude who hasn't played the game in years. This is a gigantic slap in the face to all of the current content creators and players who oro.ote the game THEY ARW CURRENTLY PLAYING.

Woeler

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Sypher sure picked a strange time to return. This update is a huge stinker.

Mate, he obviously got paid.

TechMaybeHic

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

Cooperharley wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Sypher sure picked a strange time to return. This update is a huge stinker.

He didn’t pick a time to return. He was likely paid a big sum of money due to his millions of subscribers to bring more attention to the game, but all it did was display his boredom even more so, so it likely hurt them more than anything.

I promise you Sypher is going straight back to Fortnite at 100mph and deleting ESO off his PC 🤣 I love this game but man, if that stream didn’t show off the pain points I don’t know what will!

If this is the case then we have to give zos credit for trying and investing time and potentially money to bring new players to the game. We desperately need this.

My gripe is that they lean on a dude who hasn't played the game in years. This is a gigantic slap in the face to all of the current content creators and players who oro.ote the game THEY ARW CURRENTLY PLAYING.

Really dint have big ESO streamers any more. Definitely not near the viewers Sypher gets.

fred4

I'm going by the other comments. It's fair if Brian does not PvP and, therefore, plays a tank. However denying the latter and not being able to answer what Arcanist's hard CC is, that's shocking for the lead combat designer.

fred4

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Brian's comment after getting stomped 0-500 was "that's okay, it's about the medal score you get"

I'm not super sweaty, but I find scores that correlate with your skill important nonetheless. The participation medals that BG leaderboards are based on continue to ruin that content for me.

Brian saying that SypherPK has a good kd ratio but they were only 6 kills 5 deaths

Cringe.

Thumbless_Bot

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

Cooperharley wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Sypher sure picked a strange time to return. This update is a huge stinker.

He didn’t pick a time to return. He was likely paid a big sum of money due to his millions of subscribers to bring more attention to the game, but all it did was display his boredom even more so, so it likely hurt them more than anything.

I promise you Sypher is going straight back to Fortnite at 100mph and deleting ESO off his PC 🤣 I love this game but man, if that stream didn’t show off the pain points I don’t know what will!

If this is the case then we have to give zos credit for trying and investing time and potentially money to bring new players to the game. We desperately need this.

My gripe is that they lean on a dude who hasn't played the game in years. This is a gigantic slap in the face to all of the current content creators and players who oro.ote the game THEY ARW CURRENTLY PLAYING.

Really dint have big ESO streamers any more. Definitely not near the viewers Sypher gets.

True, and visibility is good. My point is that there is a community of existing players that they completely ignore. These players can provide way better insight and feedback on proposed changes to combat, sets, skills, etc. Before... this is key... before zos goes in and inevitably makes the game worse.

Instead we are left to complain here after the fact while zos steamrolls ahead with other things that will continue to degrade the gaming experience.

It is so backwards and so frustrating to have to keep absorbing bad combat changes already. So, when they go out and stream with some dude who gave up the game years ago, it's insulting.

Cooperharley

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

Cooperharley wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Sypher sure picked a strange time to return. This update is a huge stinker.

He didn’t pick a time to return. He was likely paid a big sum of money due to his millions of subscribers to bring more attention to the game, but all it did was display his boredom even more so, so it likely hurt them more than anything.

I promise you Sypher is going straight back to Fortnite at 100mph and deleting ESO off his PC 🤣 I love this game but man, if that stream didn’t show off the pain points I don’t know what will!

If this is the case then we have to give zos credit for trying and investing time and potentially money to bring new players to the game. We desperately need this.

My gripe is that they lean on a dude who hasn't played the game in years. This is a gigantic slap in the face to all of the current content creators and players who oro.ote the game THEY ARW CURRENTLY PLAYING.

The problem with this, is scope. ESO has NEVER been a popular category on Twitch and if you look in general at how many popular content creators there are along with how many views an average video gets, content consumption is clearly VERY low relative to other popular MMOs like WoW. This is large in part to the crowd that ESO is known for catering to, which is great! BUT, if they want to reach more people, they have to go outside of our current pool. Every single creator that has gotten popular in ESO eventually leaves. Deltia, Lucky, Alcast, Sypher, you name it. All these guys were phenomenal, but realized that ESO just isn’t consumed in that way like other games and for those making a career out of it, it’s an easy business decision to leave.

People watch competitive gameplay. ESO has never had anything inherently competitive which is why so many people also like it, but we’ve never had arenas and streamed championships for PvP because there’s nothing in place to allow for that. The raid scene also doesn’t have any lasting rewards and incentives to improve and get to that level are extremely low.

When ZOS decides to invest more in competition, listens to what veteran players really want, and finally places an enticing reward structure in the game, we may see more traffic! It’s not saying the game is dying or dead, but rather who it’s been designed for over the years is people with families, real jobs, etc that cannot log in everyday to do stuff. It’s fun to go around and quest and stuff and dip into BGs here and there for instance. But if you ask any hardcore or veteran player what they think - many leave with the idea of “what’s the point?” That’s the problem still and I’ve never seen any developer talk about it.

My $0.02

Poss

Cooperharley wrote: »

He didn’t pick a time to return. He was likely paid a big sum of money due to his millions of subscribers to bring more attention to the game, but all it did was display his boredom even more so, so it likely hurt them more than anything.

Sypher didn’t stream nor did he advertise this collaboration to his subscribers. He was literally just there as a special guest. I’m still disappointed we had to watch Brian’s tank PoV for 2 hours

Cooperharley

Poss wrote: »

Cooperharley wrote: »

He didn’t pick a time to return. He was likely paid a big sum of money due to his millions of subscribers to bring more attention to the game, but all it did was display his boredom even more so, so it likely hurt them more than anything.

Sypher didn’t stream nor did he advertise this collaboration to his subscribers. He was literally just there as a special guest. I’m still disappointed we had to watch Brian’s tank PoV for 2 hours

He has millions of followers on twitch and tons of subs specifically for his fortnite content creation (not ESO) and took time away from that for a full day to play a game with absolutely no twitch presence. He was absolutely paid, he would’ve lost a lot of money otherwise lol. I very much doubt that he just popped over for fun.

Poss

Cooperharley wrote: »

He has millions of followers on twitch and tons of subs specifically for his fortnite content creation (not ESO) and took time away from that for a full day to play a game with absolutely no twitch presence. He was absolutely paid, he would’ve lost a lot of money otherwise lol. I very much doubt that he just popped over for fun.

I have no doubt he was paid and a vast some too that’s not the point I was making. Sypher didn’t stream this to his subscribers nor did he even announce he was playing ESO again. So ZoS gained nothing from this

Lixiviant

Any time they put the spotlight on PVP is a plus for me. If it brings more players into that part of the game I think it is great. Possibly ZOS will put a bit more emphasis on improving that area.