Oh, Ballgroups

BXR_Lonestar

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Rowjoh wrote: »

very, very, very, very, very, simple solution.

STOP.

FEEDING.

THEM.

If everyone just went to another part of the map en masse every time a ballgroup showed up, then they'd have no fuel and would no longer be thing.

The issue here is quite simple. If people want small scale fight, they either do BGs or duels. People play in Cyro for big & epic large-scale army vs army fights. And people don't follow ball groups - it is ball groups who follow people. Whenever there is a big fight it takes 5 - 10 minutes for the ball group to show up. Often you don't even see them, but "feel" that they are near cuz everything starts to lag out. And when they show up, it does not matter much what alliance the ball group is. The fight & fun is over & time is ruined for every one else (aside of those 12 players in a ball group that is).

In order to "stop feeding" ball groups it would actually require for every single player to be "united" to the point where whenever ball group shows up, everyone one woud just port back to home base & wait till ball group disbands as there is no "food" (ap) to get... which is kinda impossible.

I think this is probably more of an issue for prime time, and the "lag" caused by "ball groups" IMO is probably related to people running older consoles. Cyrodil in prime time was borderline unplayable for me until I got my Xbox Series X, and since that time, I can go into the biggest battles in Greyhost and not have any lag, framerate drain, etc.

But your right, before I got the new console, massive fights would cause lag and framerate to drop - regardless of whether a ball group was present. I know this was the case because I've had plenty of defenses against 50 man EP/AD zergs with no organized ball group in sight (and we were only partially comped), and on the old console, it was unplayable. I could not participate in those fights. The combination of maxed siege on both sides, abilities, buffs/debuffs, was just too much for old gen consoles.

As for ball groups following people. This really depends on the scenario TBH. If the campaign is close and we see people struggling with a key objective (last emp keep), then we're going to show up and help our fellow Blues. If we barely have anything on the map, but there seems like theirs other groups making progress, we'll head off on our own to take different objectives and look for a fight elsewhere.

And that is precisely the problem with what is going on in this forum. Everyone (especially those with NO EXPERIENCE) playing in a ball group want to say that "ALL" ballgroups behave this way or that way, and it simply isn't true. That may be how their experience is, and that experience could just be limited to the time when they are playing (prime time vs. non prime time) and when the big ball groups are active in that server.

I understand the frustration they're experiencing, and it sounds harsh, but this really just boils down to a skill issue. Cyrodil isn't a matchmade experience so you have players of all different skills playing together on the same playing field and if you don't want to fight good players working together - then just leave the field. Or learn how to fight them when you can't go toe-to-toe with them, like using terrain/structures to your advantage, using siege to your advantage, learn how to form a proper killbox/kill funnel so YOU have an overmatch advantage. There is plenty of things that can be done that don't take a high-degree of coordination to fight a ball group, but the only acceptable answer here seems to be "nerf ball groups!" which I am afraid just exposes their own bias.

The_Meathead

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

I think this is probably more of an issue for prime time, and the "lag" caused by "ball groups" IMO is probably related to people running older consoles. Cyrodil in prime time was borderline unplayable for me until I got my Xbox Series X, and since that time, I can go into the biggest battles in Greyhost and not have any lag, framerate drain, etc.

But your right, before I got the new console, massive fights would cause lag and framerate to drop - regardless of whether a ball group was present. I know this was the case because I've had plenty of defenses against 50 man EP/AD zergs with no organized ball group in sight (and we were only partially comped), and on the old console, it was unplayable. I could not participate in those fights. The combination of maxed siege on both sides, abilities, buffs/debuffs, was just too much for old gen consoles.

I can't speak to consoles as I haven't had one in over twenty years, but on PC my experience is that I never get lag in Cyrodiil no matter how large the zerg fight becomes - but I do occasionally get lag when Ball Groups are present, and it can be excessive in the moment.

My machine/connection/blah blah is all very good, so I know I'm fortunate not to experience lag at any other point. The rare times I do see lag, a Ball Group is *always* present and while I realize that's anecdotal I'm certainly not the only one to ever say the same.

I'm not an expert, so I don't know why that is. I'd assume it's something to do with stacking so tightly and the amount of abilities being used and how they're calculated, but I really don't know. What I do know is Ball Groups have a different effect than Zergs fighting one another, even when the Zergs are far far larger.

TechMaybeHic

Kind of had fun against a ball group last night by going back flag, when they were front, scattering and going front flag when they went back until they jumped out to try to siege the door again and setup a new farm. They got some kills in PUGs but ultimately didn't accomplish anything.

But that was a really bad ball group, as most are these days really. I have a lot of respect for some old school ones that are not around anymore, and maybe one or two that still are. They were good back more than a couple years ago, and would be nearly invincible now. Most of them now, though; really rely on crutch sets and PUGs to feed them.

Minnesinger

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Kind of had fun against a ball group last night by going back flag, when they were front, scattering and going front flag when they went back until they jumped out to try to siege the door again and setup a new farm. They got some kills in PUGs but ultimately didn't accomplish anything.

But that was a really bad ball group, as most are these days really. I have a lot of respect for some old school ones that are not around anymore, and maybe one or two that still are. They were good back more than a couple years ago, and would be nearly invincible now. Most of them now, though; really rely on crutch sets and PUGs to feed them.

Well to be honest, the early times were really hard for most players. There were not really good builds or least many chose to gear up silly sets. The choice was also very much craftable sets. Giving credits to nowadays ball groups for their opponents are more skilled and better geared.

The_Meathead

AD's current "Double Ballgroup" on NA GH is a bit much.

Exactly how much of a massive mechanical advantage do you need to be able to play the game, guys? Yeesh, I'd be embarrassed.

DaniimalsSF

I think the core issue is that the power of grouping scales too dramatically. The power should lie in coordinated tactics, not layers and layers of abilities ticking. This is why so many would like to eliminate heal and shield stacking. It’s an impressive feat to truly organize and coordinate a group of 12 to battle against stacked odds, but the mechanics are just currently too powerful. I’m cool with an optimized 12 usually winning against 20 randoms, but 30 randoms should be able to wipe the ball group 95% of the time.