Movement and Speed Must be addressed

DrSlaughtr

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

This is basically completely correct as a post hopefully the devs listen,

Honestly i'd just completely bin celerity and make something different there - a CP star to change your dodge/sprint to magicka cost for example would be interesting

Couple important thing to add:

1) Sprint should be your main source of movement speed increase in combat. The issue now is that often players are reaching huge speed increases without even needing to sprint as a trade off.

2) You can easily make these changes only affect pvp by simply adding -50% to movement speed bonuses whilst battle spirit is applied.

3) You could also easily only make these changes apply whilst in combat similar to wild hunt to allow crafters and gatherers to still enjoy speed increases

50% movement speed decrease. That made me chuckle. Turn everyone into tortoises so that players can mash their buttons (ignoring global cooldowns and light attacks) for hours on end while everyone creeps around. It would be rather hilarious to see. I'm imagining the youtube videos making fun of us all.

I sprint often despite sneaking rather quickly, by the way. Sometimes I feel like we're all playing different games. Maybe my fellow players need to watch more live streams to see what things look like through a different pair of eyes. Everything you ese on your screen is only your specific experience with the game. I assure you. Plenty of people sprint.

silky_soft

Nice an argument about speed. It's insane the advantage low ping players have when they stack it outside of sprint. Even worse then any other stat because of the way position checks are done by the sever. It also affects PvE not just PVP.

It gets to the point where you heavy attack cancel a skill but only heavy attack hits. The skill goes off also, you get billed, but server says no. You 90% animate but don't get a hit. You run around LOS up a level but you're still smacked by melee or pulled by set.

20% base to high ping players to put us on a more even footing would be great. They've done live testing before in Cyrodiil so there is precident. But they can't even do something as basic as communicate with us.

Any pro NA want to see what we play like and how much speed stacking is needed. Get on your melee. VPN to São Paulo, Brasil. Then go to Sydney, Australia. Do 30 min for each location. Try with and without stacking, see how you go. If you have 2 pc side by side like me, you can see the difference. Maybe you're not pro PvP, buy PvE. I ask you to complete VMA and compare your experience to normal.

I've seen people lose their minds on stream because they've gone from sub 50 to 120+. So goodluck.

Synapsis123

I just tried a BG with no swift, no celerity, and no other movement speed sources. I was moving so slow it felt like I was RP walking. I can tell you right now that if they changed this to your suggestions then I would just quit the game immediately.

Also to the above poster. We shouldn't be balancing the game around people playing from Brazil and Australia. I can tell you I know someone who plays this game from Brazil and they also wouldn't like your changes.

Everyone would just play a sorc with streak. It already moves faster than movement speed cap with amazing ranged damage and survivability. The OP posted that streak was fine and wanted movement nerfed. It sounds like they are just a sorc player that got run down by fast players. They would have to remove streak from the game.

ForumSavant

Imagine nerfing speed and keeping sorc streak the exact same. Sorc already gets away from engages easily. Why are we trying to fix things that are a non issue?

TheLoreMaster420

Cant wait to be stuck in combat and run between keeps in cyrodiil with no movement speed bonuses! That sounds like so much fun and rewarding gameplay! Next we should remove the ability to mount so that everyone, minus sorcs, have to hobble across the battlefield!

DrSlaughtr

silky_soft wrote: »

Nice an argument about speed. It's insane the advantage low ping players have when they stack it outside of sprint. Even worse then any other stat because of the way position checks are done by the sever. It also affects PvE not just PVP.

It gets to the point where you heavy attack cancel a skill but only heavy attack hits. The skill goes off also, you get billed, but server says no. You 90% animate but don't get a hit. You run around LOS up a level but you're still smacked by melee or pulled by set.

20% base to high ping players to put us on a more even footing would be great. They've done live testing before in Cyrodiil so there is precident. But they can't even do something as basic as communicate with us.

Any pro NA want to see what we play like and how much speed stacking is needed. Get on your melee. VPN to São Paulo, Brasil. Then go to Sydney, Australia. Do 30 min for each location. Try with and without stacking, see how you go. If you have 2 pc side by side like me, you can see the difference. Maybe you're not pro PvP, buy PvE. I ask you to complete VMA and compare your experience to normal.

I've seen people lose their minds on stream because they've gone from sub 50 to 120+. So goodluck.

If you have poor latency you will be at a disadvantage to everyone else in every online game. You can't get around that. People who have more powerful PCs or current gen consoles have advantages over older systems. You can't get around that.

Some people use pro controllers with paddles. Advantage. Some people spend $400 on their mouse and keyboard. Advantage.

Even if they did magically grant players with high ping extra speed it wouldn't matter because your connection would suffer processing, sending and receiving all that extra data.

Not to mention there's no way to police that and real time tracking every players ping to determine whether they have the bonus or not would be a large burden on the backend.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

DrSlaughtr wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

This is basically completely correct as a post hopefully the devs listen,

Honestly i'd just completely bin celerity and make something different there - a CP star to change your dodge/sprint to magicka cost for example would be interesting

Couple important thing to add:

1) Sprint should be your main source of movement speed increase in combat. The issue now is that often players are reaching huge speed increases without even needing to sprint as a trade off.

2) You can easily make these changes only affect pvp by simply adding -50% to movement speed bonuses whilst battle spirit is applied.

3) You could also easily only make these changes apply whilst in combat similar to wild hunt to allow crafters and gatherers to still enjoy speed increases

50% movement speed decrease. That made me chuckle. Turn everyone into tortoises so that players can mash their buttons (ignoring global cooldowns and light attacks) for hours on end while everyone creeps around. It would be rather hilarious to see. I'm imagining the youtube videos making fun of us all.

I sprint often despite sneaking rather quickly, by the way. Sometimes I feel like we're all playing different games. Maybe my fellow players need to watch more live streams to see what things look like through a different pair of eyes. Everything you ese on your screen is only your specific experience with the game. I assure you. Plenty of people sprint.

You completely missed the point of my post.

I'm saying that movement speed increasing effects should be nerfed by 50% outside of sprint. This is not the same thing as a '50% movement speed decrease'.

Lets take what people call a 'ball group' these days:

Example 1: Snow treaders user
The user still benefits from:

30% Major Expedition
15% Minor Expedition
21% Swift
10% Celerity

Then you also have Steed available if you need it 10-14%

This is between 76-90% speed increase WITHOUT sprinting which is just insane. Nerfing this to max 45% would be more than fine. If you want to go faster then you sprint (i.e take snow boots off).

You could also achieve a similar effect by adding in a soft cap and harshly reducing effects above a certain amount but I worry about the ability to implement this correctly with the issues with damage mitigation that we have.

bar_boss_A

Nice points. Would also add:
- no infinite immunity and spammable immunity to snares/slows should be allowed.
- slows should be stackable. Now only the strongest counts. Less unique slows on sets and skills to counter that. Make most of them minor or major.

DrSlaughtr

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

DrSlaughtr wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

This is basically completely correct as a post hopefully the devs listen,

Honestly i'd just completely bin celerity and make something different there - a CP star to change your dodge/sprint to magicka cost for example would be interesting

Couple important thing to add:

1) Sprint should be your main source of movement speed increase in combat. The issue now is that often players are reaching huge speed increases without even needing to sprint as a trade off.

2) You can easily make these changes only affect pvp by simply adding -50% to movement speed bonuses whilst battle spirit is applied.

3) You could also easily only make these changes apply whilst in combat similar to wild hunt to allow crafters and gatherers to still enjoy speed increases

50% movement speed decrease. That made me chuckle. Turn everyone into tortoises so that players can mash their buttons (ignoring global cooldowns and light attacks) for hours on end while everyone creeps around. It would be rather hilarious to see. I'm imagining the youtube videos making fun of us all.

I sprint often despite sneaking rather quickly, by the way. Sometimes I feel like we're all playing different games. Maybe my fellow players need to watch more live streams to see what things look like through a different pair of eyes. Everything you ese on your screen is only your specific experience with the game. I assure you. Plenty of people sprint.

You completely missed the point of my post.

I'm saying that movement speed increasing effects should be nerfed by 50% outside of sprint. This is not the same thing as a '50% movement speed decrease'.

Lets take what people call a 'ball group' these days:

Example 1: Snow treaders user
The user still benefits from:

30% Major Expedition
15% Minor Expedition
21% Swift
10% Celerity

Then you also have Steed available if you need it 10-14%

This is between 76-90% speed increase WITHOUT sprinting which is just insane. Nerfing this to max 45% would be more than fine. If you want to go faster then you sprint (i.e take snow boots off).

You could also achieve a similar effect by adding in a soft cap and harshly reducing effects above a certain amount but I worry about the ability to implement this correctly with the issues with damage mitigation that we have.

So this goes back to "I want everyone to be slower to accommodate my playstyle."

You want the ceiling dragged down so the floor can operate with less effort.

You're also throwing around percentages without understanding what any of them mean.

You are also welcome to slot those perks. Oh wait. Some players don't have high enough CP to slot those. Does that mean we should eliminate those perks? What about all the other perks that someone less experienced won't have points for?

Speed has nothing to do with your inability to defeat someone. It won't stop 12 people with 40k health from running over you. All what you are suggesting will do is overly punish non-brawler tanks, most notably glass cannons, which might be your actual motivation for presenting this.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

DrSlaughtr wrote: »

You want the ceiling dragged down so the floor can operate with less effort.

You're also throwing around percentages without understanding what any of them mean.

I would argue that currently allowing such high speeds to be so easily accessible without any trade off of in resource management via managing when you are sprinting is actually raising the floor and lowering the ceiling as it is.

Also I don't think explaining percentages to you would help in your understanding of my point.
This isn't about any particular playstyle but about the way the latency in the game is handled when it comes to positional updates and the problems that high movement speed brings to the server.

DrSlaughtr

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

DrSlaughtr wrote: »

You want the ceiling dragged down so the floor can operate with less effort.

You're also throwing around percentages without understanding what any of them mean.

I would argue that currently allowing such high speeds to be so easily accessible without any trade off of in resource management via managing when you are sprinting is actually raising the floor and lowering the ceiling as it is.

Also I don't think explaining percentages to you would help in your understanding of my point.
This isn't about any particular playstyle but about the way the latency in the game is handled when it comes to positional updates and the problems that high movement speed brings to the server.

Are you an engineer? Do you work on the server?

No. I miss heavy attack on stationary targets shooting siege. Speed is a scapegoat.

StaticWave

DrSlaughtr wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

DrSlaughtr wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

This is basically completely correct as a post hopefully the devs listen,

Honestly i'd just completely bin celerity and make something different there - a CP star to change your dodge/sprint to magicka cost for example would be interesting

Couple important thing to add:

1) Sprint should be your main source of movement speed increase in combat. The issue now is that often players are reaching huge speed increases without even needing to sprint as a trade off.

2) You can easily make these changes only affect pvp by simply adding -50% to movement speed bonuses whilst battle spirit is applied.

3) You could also easily only make these changes apply whilst in combat similar to wild hunt to allow crafters and gatherers to still enjoy speed increases

50% movement speed decrease. That made me chuckle. Turn everyone into tortoises so that players can mash their buttons (ignoring global cooldowns and light attacks) for hours on end while everyone creeps around. It would be rather hilarious to see. I'm imagining the youtube videos making fun of us all.

I sprint often despite sneaking rather quickly, by the way. Sometimes I feel like we're all playing different games. Maybe my fellow players need to watch more live streams to see what things look like through a different pair of eyes. Everything you ese on your screen is only your specific experience with the game. I assure you. Plenty of people sprint.

You completely missed the point of my post.

I'm saying that movement speed increasing effects should be nerfed by 50% outside of sprint. This is not the same thing as a '50% movement speed decrease'.

Lets take what people call a 'ball group' these days:

Example 1: Snow treaders user
The user still benefits from:

30% Major Expedition
15% Minor Expedition
21% Swift
10% Celerity

Then you also have Steed available if you need it 10-14%

This is between 76-90% speed increase WITHOUT sprinting which is just insane. Nerfing this to max 45% would be more than fine. If you want to go faster then you sprint (i.e take snow boots off).

You could also achieve a similar effect by adding in a soft cap and harshly reducing effects above a certain amount but I worry about the ability to implement this correctly with the issues with damage mitigation that we have.

So this goes back to "I want everyone to be slower to accommodate my playstyle."

You want the ceiling dragged down so the floor can operate with less effort.

You're also throwing around percentages without understanding what any of them mean.

You are also welcome to slot those perks. Oh wait. Some players don't have high enough CP to slot those. Does that mean we should eliminate those perks? What about all the other perks that someone less experienced won't have points for?

Speed has nothing to do with your inability to defeat someone. It won't stop 12 people with 40k health from running over you. All what you are suggesting will do is overly punish non-brawler tanks, most notably glass cannons, which might be your actual motivation for presenting this.

The floor has been raised over the years with easy access to movement speed. Remove all these sources of movement speed and I can guarantee you the ceiling will do just fine. Not sure about the floor tho with their crutch taken away.

MincMincMinc

bar_boss_A wrote: »

Nice points. Would also add:
- no infinite immunity and spammable immunity to snares/slows should be allowed.
- slows should be stackable. Now only the strongest counts. Less unique slows on sets and skills to counter that. Make most of them minor or major.

I could get behind there being a major and minor snare essentially. Single target skills do the major and aoe skills do the minor. If major/minor speed buffs are 15/8% the snare debuffs would be 30/15% and add/stackable to 45%.

StaticWave wrote: »

DrSlaughtr wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

DrSlaughtr wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

This is basically completely correct as a post hopefully the devs listen,

Honestly i'd just completely bin celerity and make something different there - a CP star to change your dodge/sprint to magicka cost for example would be interesting

Couple important thing to add:

1) Sprint should be your main source of movement speed increase in combat. The issue now is that often players are reaching huge speed increases without even needing to sprint as a trade off.

2) You can easily make these changes only affect pvp by simply adding -50% to movement speed bonuses whilst battle spirit is applied.

3) You could also easily only make these changes apply whilst in combat similar to wild hunt to allow crafters and gatherers to still enjoy speed increases

50% movement speed decrease. That made me chuckle. Turn everyone into tortoises so that players can mash their buttons (ignoring global cooldowns and light attacks) for hours on end while everyone creeps around. It would be rather hilarious to see. I'm imagining the youtube videos making fun of us all.

I sprint often despite sneaking rather quickly, by the way. Sometimes I feel like we're all playing different games. Maybe my fellow players need to watch more live streams to see what things look like through a different pair of eyes. Everything you ese on your screen is only your specific experience with the game. I assure you. Plenty of people sprint.

You completely missed the point of my post.

I'm saying that movement speed increasing effects should be nerfed by 50% outside of sprint. This is not the same thing as a '50% movement speed decrease'.

Lets take what people call a 'ball group' these days:

Example 1: Snow treaders user
The user still benefits from:

30% Major Expedition
15% Minor Expedition
21% Swift
10% Celerity

Then you also have Steed available if you need it 10-14%

This is between 76-90% speed increase WITHOUT sprinting which is just insane. Nerfing this to max 45% would be more than fine. If you want to go faster then you sprint (i.e take snow boots off).

You could also achieve a similar effect by adding in a soft cap and harshly reducing effects above a certain amount but I worry about the ability to implement this correctly with the issues with damage mitigation that we have.

So this goes back to "I want everyone to be slower to accommodate my playstyle."

You want the ceiling dragged down so the floor can operate with less effort.

You're also throwing around percentages without understanding what any of them mean.

You are also welcome to slot those perks. Oh wait. Some players don't have high enough CP to slot those. Does that mean we should eliminate those perks? What about all the other perks that someone less experienced won't have points for?

Speed has nothing to do with your inability to defeat someone. It won't stop 12 people with 40k health from running over you. All what you are suggesting will do is overly punish non-brawler tanks, most notably glass cannons, which might be your actual motivation for presenting this.

The floor has been raised over the years with easy access to movement speed. Remove all these sources of movement speed and I can guarantee you the ceiling will do just fine. Not sure about the floor tho with their crutch taken away.

Static I tried, he for some reason he and a few others dont understand that when speed gets reduced....EVERYONE's speed gets reduced equally. The only argument is that sorcs can streak, however its not like streak changed over the years. Its just that nobody slots gap closers which are the direct counter to streak, because people can just run faster than most gap closers lol. These people also dont realize you wouldn't need to stack movement speed if snares/roots/immunity was properly balanced and designed to be coherent.

As the OP goes over, fix the incoherent snare/root/immunity system. Reign in speed atleast midway between pre summerset and current values. In order to help address: skill/hit registration issues, lack of sprint use, lack of gap closer use, stat creep, general movement physics issues, etc.

necro_the_crafter

https://youtu.be/G0PuogHyKnE

Not sure what happened there, but it seems like server connection timed out and my client hadnt received a disconnect yet, so I stucked with mounted speed but on my two legs instead for single player Sonic:ESO edition expirience for a few mins

acastanza_ESO

I would probably be in support of a 10-20% reduction in the speed cap while under the effect of battlespririt. But that's probably all. Definitely not touching the base movement speed though.

MincMincMinc

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

I would probably be in support of a 10-20% reduction in the speed cap while under the effect of battlespririt. But that's probably all. Definitely not touching the base movement speed though.

changing the speed cap effectively does nothing though. Under the proposal base speed would not change. (base speed used to be 90% instead of the current 100% btw) The proposal solely brings the average movement speed post buff within a reasonable amount.

If anything a speed cap SHOULD not be necessary if the buffs are actually standardized. The fact that the cap is so easily reached without sprinting only points out how inflated speed buffs are.

Thumbless_Bot

"If you add something into the equation and suddenly there is an issue, it is likely what you added causing the heartache. I know that mindset doesn't sell dlc though"

It's called regression testing and is a basic... BASIC part of any...ANY software development lifecycle... well, almost anyway...

silky_soft

DrSlaughtr wrote: »

silky_soft wrote: »

Nice an argument about speed. It's insane the advantage low ping players have when they stack it outside of sprint. Even worse then any other stat because of the way position checks are done by the sever. It also affects PvE not just PVP.

It gets to the point where you heavy attack cancel a skill but only heavy attack hits. The skill goes off also, you get billed, but server says no. You 90% animate but don't get a hit. You run around LOS up a level but you're still smacked by melee or pulled by set.

20% base to high ping players to put us on a more even footing would be great. They've done live testing before in Cyrodiil so there is precident. But they can't even do something as basic as communicate with us.

Any pro NA want to see what we play like and how much speed stacking is needed. Get on your melee. VPN to São Paulo, Brasil. Then go to Sydney, Australia. Do 30 min for each location. Try with and without stacking, see how you go. If you have 2 pc side by side like me, you can see the difference. Maybe you're not pro PvP, buy PvE. I ask you to complete VMA and compare your experience to normal.

I've seen people lose their minds on stream because they've gone from sub 50 to 120+. So goodluck.

If you have poor latency you will be at a disadvantage to everyone else in every online game. You can't get around that. People who have more powerful PCs or current gen consoles have advantages over older systems. You can't get around that.

Some people use pro controllers with paddles. Advantage. Some people spend $400 on their mouse and keyboard. Advantage.

Even if they did magically grant players with high ping extra speed it wouldn't matter because your connection would suffer processing, sending and receiving all that extra data.

Not to mention there's no way to police that and real time tracking every players ping to determine whether they have the bonus or not would be a large burden on the backend.

If it wouldn't matter. They can test it out then.

Well they know where your billing location is. The game already displays your ping.

Not every game. In FPS you can prefire and account for projectile speed any other games that allow that.

Turtle_Bot

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

I would probably be in support of a 10-20% reduction in the speed cap while under the effect of battlespririt. But that's probably all. Definitely not touching the base movement speed though.

Sprint speed cap can remain as is (200%). What truly needs adjusting is the non-sprint speed cap.

It should never have been made possible in the first place for someone running (not sprinting) to reach the same speed cap that someone who is sprinting has, let alone be at a comparable if not equal speed cap to someone who is mounted with decent/max investment into mount speed.

If anything non-sprint speed cap should be 150% or 175% speed, sprint cap should be current 200% and mounted be like 225% or 250%. If a player/group is sprinting, they should be able to chase down or escape another player/group that is not sprinting and even more so if they are able to mount.

The other thing that needs looking at is the snowtreaders mythic and snare immunity skills.

The mythic should not only disable sprint, but also make the wearer immune to all speed modifiers (both positive and negative) while worn. There is currently zero downside to using that mythic, especially if you are part of a group and the group can cover the damage/mitigation that is lost from not running other mythics while also granting group wide speed negating the "curse" of the mythic.
The same conditions should also be looked into for snare removal/immunity skills. Why run gap closers or even most teleports when RaT allows you to move just as fast as those abilities, while also being immune to slows/immobilizes and with none of the drawbacks like a ramping cost or cast delay.

Only reason Streak gets ran over RaT is because it combines that mobility with a stun and having a stun is mandatory in PvP as is the mobility RaT provides, so being able to combine those 2 mandatory effects into 1 ability is extremely important for a class that traditionally struggles with bar space like sorc.

ArctosCethlenn

Make snares multiplicative instead of additive again, so a 50% slow still drops the guy with speed cap down to base movement speed. Someone hit with a 70% snare at speed cap should go from 200% to 60% of base speed, not from 200% to 130%. It wouldn't effect overland farmers or pve or anything, but it'd make snares more meaningful in pvp.

Then either make treaders and other snare+root immunities give a floor the wearer can't be slowed below, or as a better option, reduced effectiveness of snares like the Martial Training Redguard Passive instead of total immunity.

Player-sourced snares were changed to additive in Update 24, but there're far too many passive speed boosts available now.

Soarora

NuarBlack wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

NuarBlack wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

There’s much bigger problems than player speed for dev time to focus on. Like why don’t skills go off reliably (hitting 1 skill several times in a row, you’ll notice it skips casts), why is necro so bad at anything other than tank, why is templar, etc. I can’t think of any mechanic you can straight up skip by being too fast as most if not all mechanics that chase you actually go faster the longer they’re up and bosses can’t be kited anymore due to anti-roll mechanics.

Wait, you serious? One of the primary reasons skills don't fire is desync caused by too much speed. Speed is the primary culprit. Slowing down the game would literally improve skills firing more consistently.

And before you go blaming the servers think about what you are asking especially after you made the argument that the devs need to be efficient with their time. What is easier? Adjusting player speed or expensive server overhauls?

In what way? Stand completely still in a house with only you and hit a skill like combat prayer as many times as you can in a row onto the ground. It doesn’t matter that no one is moving, inputs get skipped. That’s what I was referring to.

Player speed isn’t the only problem, if its a problem at all.

Well you can't exceed the GCD. That isn't inputs not registering or Well it is but very much intentional. Never have inputs not register on the GCD when I have good latency. Mashing buttons faster than the GCD isn't proving anything.

It's not that I'm trying to hit skills faster than the GCD, it's that consistently skills will cast on each GCD except sometimes the skill doesn't cast at all. Only way I could think of this having anything to do with GCDs is if the GCD is slightly off to the point that it adds up and results in a null GCD.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

MincMincMinc wrote: »

I could get behind there being a major and minor snare essentially. Single target skills do the major and aoe skills do the minor. If major/minor speed buffs are 15/8% the snare debuffs would be 30/15% and add/stackable to 45%.

Essentially there kinda already is major and minor snare because snare's cannot stack so only the most potent snare is active at any time (unlike speed buffs).

DrSlaughtr

Soarora wrote: »

NuarBlack wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

NuarBlack wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

There’s much bigger problems than player speed for dev time to focus on. Like why don’t skills go off reliably (hitting 1 skill several times in a row, you’ll notice it skips casts), why is necro so bad at anything other than tank, why is templar, etc. I can’t think of any mechanic you can straight up skip by being too fast as most if not all mechanics that chase you actually go faster the longer they’re up and bosses can’t be kited anymore due to anti-roll mechanics.

Wait, you serious? One of the primary reasons skills don't fire is desync caused by too much speed. Speed is the primary culprit. Slowing down the game would literally improve skills firing more consistently.

And before you go blaming the servers think about what you are asking especially after you made the argument that the devs need to be efficient with their time. What is easier? Adjusting player speed or expensive server overhauls?

In what way? Stand completely still in a house with only you and hit a skill like combat prayer as many times as you can in a row onto the ground. It doesn’t matter that no one is moving, inputs get skipped. That’s what I was referring to.

Player speed isn’t the only problem, if its a problem at all.

Well you can't exceed the GCD. That isn't inputs not registering or Well it is but very much intentional. Never have inputs not register on the GCD when I have good latency. Mashing buttons faster than the GCD isn't proving anything.

It's not that I'm trying to hit skills faster than the GCD, it's that consistently skills will cast on each GCD except sometimes the skill doesn't cast at all. Only way I could think of this having anything to do with GCDs is if the GCD is slightly off to the point that it adds up and results in a null GCD.

That has nothing to do with the target's speed…

necro_the_crafter

Maybe this game needs offensive dispels? I would like to see a single target version of trample (removing 1 instance of damage shield) and AoE and Single target version of Major and Minor Expedition removals for a start.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

necro_the_crafter wrote: »

Maybe this game needs offensive dispels? I would like to see a single target version of trample (removing 1 instance of damage shield) and AoE and Single target version of Major and Minor Expedition removals for a start.

We had it with Nocturnal's Ploy but people complained it was too strong and unfair for solo players when outnumbered so it got nerfed to oblivion.

xylena_lazarow

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

We had it with Nocturnal's Ploy but people complained it was too strong and unfair for solo players when outnumbered so it got nerfed to oblivion.

The concept would've been fine as something like a ground AoE akin to Negate, but not single target.

DrSlaughtr

necro_the_crafter wrote: »

Maybe this game needs offensive dispels? I would like to see a single target version of trample (removing 1 instance of damage shield) and AoE and Single target version of Major and Minor Expedition removals for a start.

The issue with that is you would then simply have an assigned player in every group who does nothing but spam dispels.

The way the game is designed, and what I like about it the most, is everything requires an active hand or an inactive sacrifice. Either you have to intentionally run a skill and use it, or you have sacrifice damage or survivability to wear a set that does it through procs.

There is no "Major Defile" button you can just spam on a target, for example. If there was simply a skill that dispelled buffs, it would simply be too strong.

You could always have someone wear Saints and Seducer. You also have Kynmarcher's Cruelty.

boi_anachronism_

MincMincMinc wrote: »

PeacefulAnarchy wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Even with the suggested changes, the majority of pve is left unchanged.... not like you go into dungeons/raid slotting celerity, swift, expedition pots. Sprint speeds would be practically unaffected for farming if that's your thing. I dont think the entirety of combat should be balanced around new players farming resource nodes or mob pulls not wanting to sprint or gap close.

There are a number of pve fights in both dungeons and trials where people use celerity and expedition sources to properly kite mechanics and to move in a coordinated fashion, It's true that going to the level of using swift jewelry or wild hunt is rare, but not unheard of. most prominent examples are cloudrest and asylum trials, but all kite and boss teleport mechanics are aided by speed boosts. thay aren't necessary, but they are a useful build option and the tradeoff in pve is currently pretty balanced.

I understand, but there are a variety of other work arounds available. I'd think in raid instances if speed was that necessary due to the lack of player skill/awareness you would want a healer or offtank slotting sources like rapids or path instead of everyone dropping damage. Even so cutting walking speed bonuses by half would have minimal effect on those maybe scenarios. Compensation can easily be added with sprint speed through cp, as that would be the mechanic counter.

.... .. .One of my trifecta teams is aussi and im ps/na. The lag when i run with them is pretty brutal. I dont get remotely the same reaction time. Figured this out comparing povs. When im doing kite mechs, especially for portals i depend on speed to counter balance the server issues.. that would be awful.

silky_soft

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

PeacefulAnarchy wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Even with the suggested changes, the majority of pve is left unchanged.... not like you go into dungeons/raid slotting celerity, swift, expedition pots. Sprint speeds would be practically unaffected for farming if that's your thing. I dont think the entirety of combat should be balanced around new players farming resource nodes or mob pulls not wanting to sprint or gap close.

There are a number of pve fights in both dungeons and trials where people use celerity and expedition sources to properly kite mechanics and to move in a coordinated fashion, It's true that going to the level of using swift jewelry or wild hunt is rare, but not unheard of. most prominent examples are cloudrest and asylum trials, but all kite and boss teleport mechanics are aided by speed boosts. thay aren't necessary, but they are a useful build option and the tradeoff in pve is currently pretty balanced.

I understand, but there are a variety of other work arounds available. I'd think in raid instances if speed was that necessary due to the lack of player skill/awareness you would want a healer or offtank slotting sources like rapids or path instead of everyone dropping damage. Even so cutting walking speed bonuses by half would have minimal effect on those maybe scenarios. Compensation can easily be added with sprint speed through cp, as that would be the mechanic counter.

.... .. .One of my trifecta teams is aussi and im ps/na. The lag when i run with them is pretty brutal. I dont get remotely the same reaction time. Figured this out comparing povs. When im doing kite mechs, especially for portals i depend on speed to counter balance the server issues.. that would be awful.

That's why there needs to be a base speed boost to higher latency players. To counter the most important mechanic in eso, position check.

I can jump and land on my screen before the jump happens on the wife's pc next to me. That's the difference which makes me believe the ping detailed in the game is double of what it actually represents.

Lystrad

DrSlaughtr wrote: »

There is no "Major Defile" button you can just spam on a target, for example. If there was simply a skill that dispelled buffs, it would simply be too strong.

Slight correction here, there is a spammable source of major defile. The templar ability dark flare. Single target spammable that applies major defile in a small area around it's target.

Back on topic, I like the idea of lowering the speed cap. I understand why people don't want speed lowered because people like to go fast, but I think it's important to consider that "tankiness" has three facets, and movement speed is the third, it's not just healing and mitigation. If you want to soften a tank meta, then all three need to be nerfed in tandem. Mitigation so that players take more damage, healing so that they recover slower, and speed to increase the time they spend vulnerable in the open between points of cover.

Given that this is mostly a pvp concern I'm open to the idea of reduced speed being something that specifically comes into effect under battle spirit, and I am also sympathetic towards the people who want to be able to get from point a to point b quickly out of combat so one compromise I could see would be to also have an in combat speed and out of combat speed, where in combat the speed bonuses have the new values, but out of combat they're returned to their original values.