Movement and Speed Must be addressed

Wuuffyy

Vaqual wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Must be addressed? Because of what you said? Hahahahahahahaha!

But in all seriousness, no-one wants a slower game b/c some people that want to mow over people with their group uncontested want players slowed down.

Being fast or slow is always relative. A slower average speed is basically like a direct multiplier to gap-closer and pull efficiency. It also affects the melee/ranged power relationship, which currently feels a bit lopsided due to the melee multipliers not quite balancing the range advantages.

I think alleging nefarious intentions is not quite fair after he made such an effort to explain his reasoning nicely.

In the last thread that was made on combat mechs, etc. (seeing a trend with nerf threads here?), multiple individuals expressed sentiment and testimony to the exact affect where I retrieved that information for the comment from.

Whether or not they dissuade disbelief by hiding that agenda (I know that no sane solo/small-scale player is asking for this) is beyond the point.

You're right in the sense that general speed is relative. But groups of players have much easier access to snares and have less incentive to move quickly over longer distances (as it's counterintuitive to move away from group protection and heals which are already a very significant, well-known issue).

Vaqual

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Vaqual wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Must be addressed? Because of what you said? Hahahahahahahaha!

But in all seriousness, no-one wants a slower game b/c some people that want to mow over people with their group uncontested want players slowed down.

Being fast or slow is always relative. A slower average speed is basically like a direct multiplier to gap-closer and pull efficiency. It also affects the melee/ranged power relationship, which currently feels a bit lopsided due to the melee multipliers not quite balancing the range advantages.

I think alleging nefarious intentions is not quite fair after he made such an effort to explain his reasoning nicely.

In the last thread that was made on combat mechs, etc. (seeing a trend with nerf threads here?), multiple individuals expressed sentiment and testimony to the exact affect where I retrieved that information for the comment from.

Whether or not they dissuade disbelief by hiding that agenda (I know that no sane solo/small-scale player is asking for this) is beyond the point.

You're right in the sense that general speed is relative. But groups of players have much easier access to snares and have less incentive to move quickly over longer distances (as it's counterintuitive to move away from group protection and heals which are already a very significant, well-known issue).

In the end a large portion of it is also down to personal taste and preference. I personally find the excessive speed mostly unappealing from a roleplay point of view. I don't know if I am reading some of your cryptic statements correctly, but alleging that there is some sort of ball group cabal trying to harass solo players would be a bit paranoid. Excuse me if that is not what you meant. If it helps the debate, I play exclusively solo and, personally speaking, I am convinced of my mental sanity.

The premise of your argument appears to be the implication that an optimized group of players will not prefer to invest into movement to the same extent an optimized solo player would, and that lowering average speed would disfavor the "underdog" in this scenario. But if anything, a lower average speed through adjustment of common sources widens the gap between average speed and intentionally maximized speed. The player with 3x Swift + Wildhunt would finally have a reason to bring those things without being caught by a jogging Nightblade. For that reason I can not really follow the logic in your argument.

Wuuffyy

Vaqual wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Vaqual wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Must be addressed? Because of what you said? Hahahahahahahaha!

But in all seriousness, no-one wants a slower game b/c some people that want to mow over people with their group uncontested want players slowed down.

Being fast or slow is always relative. A slower average speed is basically like a direct multiplier to gap-closer and pull efficiency. It also affects the melee/ranged power relationship, which currently feels a bit lopsided due to the melee multipliers not quite balancing the range advantages.

I think alleging nefarious intentions is not quite fair after he made such an effort to explain his reasoning nicely.

In the last thread that was made on combat mechs, etc. (seeing a trend with nerf threads here?), multiple individuals expressed sentiment and testimony to the exact affect where I retrieved that information for the comment from.

Whether or not they dissuade disbelief by hiding that agenda (I know that no sane solo/small-scale player is asking for this) is beyond the point.

You're right in the sense that general speed is relative. But groups of players have much easier access to snares and have less incentive to move quickly over longer distances (as it's counterintuitive to move away from group protection and heals which are already a very significant, well-known issue).

In the end a large portion of it is also down to personal taste and preference. I personally find the excessive speed mostly unappealing from a roleplay point of view. I don't know if I am reading some of your cryptic statements correctly, but alleging that there is some sort of ball group cabal trying to harass solo players would be a bit paranoid. Excuse me if that is not what you meant. If it helps the debate, I play exclusively solo and, personally speaking, I am convinced of my mental sanity.

The premise of your argument appears to be the implication that an optimized group of players will not prefer to invest into movement to the same extent an optimized solo player would, and that lowering average speed would disfavor the "underdog" in this scenario. But if anything, a lower average speed through adjustment of common sources widens the gap between average speed and intentionally maximized speed. The player with 3x Swift + Wildhunt would finally have a reason to bring those things without being caught by a jogging Nightblade. For that reason I can not really follow the logic in your argument.

Quick point: I never said 'ball groups' couldn't use movement speed, in-fact they do and still will even if the values become horrendous. The issue is they have FAR less need of it *than a smaller group/solo player.

Vaqual

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Vaqual wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Vaqual wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Must be addressed? Because of what you said? Hahahahahahahaha!

But in all seriousness, no-one wants a slower game b/c some people that want to mow over people with their group uncontested want players slowed down.

Being fast or slow is always relative. A slower average speed is basically like a direct multiplier to gap-closer and pull efficiency. It also affects the melee/ranged power relationship, which currently feels a bit lopsided due to the melee multipliers not quite balancing the range advantages.

I think alleging nefarious intentions is not quite fair after he made such an effort to explain his reasoning nicely.

In the last thread that was made on combat mechs, etc. (seeing a trend with nerf threads here?), multiple individuals expressed sentiment and testimony to the exact affect where I retrieved that information for the comment from.

Whether or not they dissuade disbelief by hiding that agenda (I know that no sane solo/small-scale player is asking for this) is beyond the point.

You're right in the sense that general speed is relative. But groups of players have much easier access to snares and have less incentive to move quickly over longer distances (as it's counterintuitive to move away from group protection and heals which are already a very significant, well-known issue).

In the end a large portion of it is also down to personal taste and preference. I personally find the excessive speed mostly unappealing from a roleplay point of view. I don't know if I am reading some of your cryptic statements correctly, but alleging that there is some sort of ball group cabal trying to harass solo players would be a bit paranoid. Excuse me if that is not what you meant. If it helps the debate, I play exclusively solo and, personally speaking, I am convinced of my mental sanity.

The premise of your argument appears to be the implication that an optimized group of players will not prefer to invest into movement to the same extent an optimized solo player would, and that lowering average speed would disfavor the "underdog" in this scenario. But if anything, a lower average speed through adjustment of common sources widens the gap between average speed and intentionally maximized speed. The player with 3x Swift + Wildhunt would finally have a reason to bring those things without being caught by a jogging Nightblade. For that reason I can not really follow the logic in your argument.

Quick point: I never said 'ball groups' couldn't use movement speed, in-fact they do and still will even if the values become horrendous. The issue is they have FAR less need of it that a smaller group/solo player.

Yes, this is the way I understood your comment in the first place. I thought I acknowledged it clearly enough.

MincMincMinc

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Vaqual wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Must be addressed? Because of what you said? Hahahahahahahaha!

But in all seriousness, no-one wants a slower game b/c some people that want to mow over people with their group uncontested want players slowed down.

Being fast or slow is always relative. A slower average speed is basically like a direct multiplier to gap-closer and pull efficiency. It also affects the melee/ranged power relationship, which currently feels a bit lopsided due to the melee multipliers not quite balancing the range advantages.

I think alleging nefarious intentions is not quite fair after he made such an effort to explain his reasoning nicely.

In the last thread that was made on combat mechs, etc. (seeing a trend with nerf threads here?), multiple individuals expressed sentiment and testimony to the exact affect where I retrieved that information for the comment from.

Whether or not they dissuade disbelief by hiding that agenda (I know that no sane solo/small-scale player is asking for this) is beyond the point.

You're right in the sense that general speed is relative. But groups of players have much easier access to snares and have less incentive to move quickly over longer distances (as it's counterintuitive to move away from group protection and heals which are already a very significant, well-known issue).

Just to reconfirm, I am a 1vX to small group 2h stamsorc player since beta. I have always played movement based playstyles through the worst and best metas....even in duels. As I broke it down in the OP it is not purely just movement speed, but the consistency that needs to be addressed. It doesn't seem like anyone has an issue with rewarding snare and root counterplay? It would be healthy all around.

IMO arguing movement speed ball groups vs pugs is silly. A well coordinated 10 man will always beat 40 people with no idea what is going on. It isn't speed, but simple coordinated direction calls that keeps them alive. Other aspects like Hots stacking and the ridiculous efficiency of group sets would be better topics to open threads about if you want to level the playing field against ball groups. There were coordinated groups back in the first half decade and there are coordinated groups now, that aspect hasn't changed. If anything speed reduction would favor the pugs, whos reaction time needs the help.

You can refer to the original post for the main reasoning to standardize speed. It isnt like you cant build for speed under my proposed change. Before summerset running speed would be 0-40% bonus. Now adays most players by default are at 50-90%. My proposed is a middleground between them that atleast brings the game physics back to a sensible speed vs map ratio. Without sprinting, I shouldnt be moving fast enough to fly down stairs instead of walking.... Or be able to move fast enough to begin dizzy swing, walk outside of their cast range, and then walk back in to make sure it hits. As funny as it is.

NuarBlack

Vaqual wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Must be addressed? Because of what you said? Hahahahahahahaha!

But in all seriousness, no-one wants a slower game b/c some people that want to mow over people with their group uncontested want players slowed down.

Being fast or slow is always relative. A slower average speed is basically like a direct multiplier to gap-closer and pull efficiency. It also affects the melee/ranged power relationship, which currently feels a bit lopsided due to the melee multipliers not quite balancing the range advantages.

I think alleging nefarious intentions is not quite fair after he made such an effort to explain his reasoning nicely.

There should be a reason to slot a gap closer besides Rush of Agony. Right now their isn't. You can run down a streaking sorc without one. It's also why sorc got busted harden ward because it's speed identity was eclipsed by the speed creep.

The game doesn't keep up with the current speed and looks like trash. And that isn't just the servers tick rate. The actual animations get janky. Sorry, but speed does need lowered. The game was way better before all the speed creep.

MincMincMinc

There are arguments both ways for melee vs range playstyles too that nobody has really brought up.

Ranged will benefit in that melee players will have to close the gap, but then ranged will have the inverse if they let the gap be closed. The rock paper scissor concept of heavy armor and light armor damage mit and bonuses probably affects melee vs range far more than speed would anyways.

Skulptro

Im a templar main.
I dueled a nightblade one evening. He didn't even use invisibility. I had to chase him to deal any damage, stack my procs, mind the positioning, because he was allways outside of my circles, kyting me. And when he stacks enough ultimate, he presses 2-3 buttons, and Im gone. In one second or so. I won 1 duel of 5-6 may be. And that was really hard and long fight. And if I will go to Open World in my build - I'm screwed. If he goes in his current build - he is fine, running, kyting and deleting after 180 degree turn and 2-3 buttons. While I have to target my jabs, look for some circles on the ground, etc. other one can jst run around on his backbar. Swap bars and press 2 buttons to win.

And this NB had 36k HP. I had 31k. He can stack more health and still do crazy damage. And he was also fast as Speedy Gonzales.

So he was just running around me, nothing I could do. When I charged to him - I'm outside of my circles, I don't get healing, and he bursts me down. GG.

I think more and more frequently about dropping the game.

sarahthes

Any balancing of this should be done via battle spirit. Right now for PvE purposes I don't have to build fully into speed when doing mechs that require speed (such as kite heal type mechanics, which is what would primarily be impacted).

Reginald_leBlem

This is why we can't have nice things

Soarora

Hello, its me, the tank that slots celerity and rapids (and sometimes streak!) and still feels too slow for the amount of running some dungeons have. Your original post doesn’t mention PvP at all, only vaguely you want speed nerfed and doesn’t explain why either. While PvPers should be able to talk about their problems, you need to mention how it’s a problem IN PVP and how to fix it IN PVP instead of making it seem this is a game-wide balance issue.

MincMincMinc

Soarora wrote: »

Hello, its me, the tank that slots celerity and rapids (and sometimes streak!) and still feels too slow for the amount of running some dungeons have. Your original post doesn’t mention PvP at all, only vaguely you want speed nerfed and doesn’t explain why either. While PvPers should be able to talk about their problems, you need to mention how it’s a problem IN PVP and how to fix it IN PVP instead of making it seem this is a game-wide balance issue.

This is not solely a pvp issue as basically any skill in the game is affected by player mobility outpacing the servers. Which leads to missed light attacks, casts, ground placed, synergy activation, non target skills, etc. Sure these are more prevalent and witnessed in pvp, but they most certainly happen in pve. Mobs just cant complain or punish you as easily(give feedback) when a skill is missed. I can update the OP to clarify further.(you cant edit OP apparently) There were plenty of threads before on various server interactions and player speed, sadly they were unheard by zos at the time.

We already had the conversation earlier in this thread on speed balance in pve. Maybe you can provide combat instances where the speed is now absolutely necessary for mechanics, because I cannot think of any that aren't a l2p issue. Even so SPRINT SPEED is what should be utilized, not movement speed.

Speed is something that should remain relatively the same in a game, it is dangerous to let it power creep. Its not like boss mechanics weren't designed in a way where they can't be adjusted to suit if needed. As I said before, at the current speed you can WALK fast enough to projectile motion down staircases instead of running. Which is a good indication that we surpassed the game engine design of walking speed. Never thought people would be so accepting/demanding of stat creep in an mmo.

sarahthes

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Hello, its me, the tank that slots celerity and rapids (and sometimes streak!) and still feels too slow for the amount of running some dungeons have. Your original post doesn’t mention PvP at all, only vaguely you want speed nerfed and doesn’t explain why either. While PvPers should be able to talk about their problems, you need to mention how it’s a problem IN PVP and how to fix it IN PVP instead of making it seem this is a game-wide balance issue.

This is not solely a pvp issue as basically any skill in the game is affected by player mobility outpacing the servers. Which leads to missed light attacks, casts, ground placed, synergy activation, non target skills, etc. Sure these are more prevalent and witnessed in pvp, but they most certainly happen in pve. Mobs just cant complain or punish you as easily(give feedback) when a skill is missed. I can update the OP to clarify further. There were plenty of threads before on various server interactions and player speed, sadly they were unheard by zos at the time.

We already had the conversation earlier in this thread on speed balance in pve. Maybe you can provide combat instances where the speed is now absolutely necessary for mechanics, because I cannot think of any that aren't a l2p issue. Even so SPRINT SPEED is what should be utilized, not movement speed.

Speed is something that should remain relatively the same in a game, it is dangerous to let it power creep. Its not like boss mechanics weren't designed in a way where they can't be adjusted to suit if needed. As I said before, at the current speed you can WALK fast enough to projectile motion down staircases instead of running. Which is a good indication that we surpassed the game engine design of walking speed. Never thought people would be so accepting/demanding of stat creep in an mmo.

1. vAS+2 (kite heal, off tank - especially when doing mini skips) - uses celerity, 3xswift, expedition, sometimes steed
2. vCR HM (kite heal, mini kiting during mini skips in execute) - uses celerity, 1-2xswift, expedition
3. Rockgrove HM - kiting Oax charges/poison, playing around curses and portal beam on Bahsei HM, running up stairs on Xalvakka, moving to shell on Xalvakka - uses celerity, 1-3xswift, expedition
4. Ansuul HM maze - all players - uses celerity, expedition - sprinting is bad, and causes issues with the mechanics
5. Knot HM - all players - uses celerity, expedition - sprinting is bad here as you will then just die due to not having the stam to roll when mechs come up, even with expert evasion

Edit: speed is already capped at 200%. It is not possible to go faster than that. So it likely doesn't need to be balanced further.

Reginald_leBlem

sarahthes wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Hello, its me, the tank that slots celerity and rapids (and sometimes streak!) and still feels too slow for the amount of running some dungeons have. Your original post doesn’t mention PvP at all, only vaguely you want speed nerfed and doesn’t explain why either. While PvPers should be able to talk about their problems, you need to mention how it’s a problem IN PVP and how to fix it IN PVP instead of making it seem this is a game-wide balance issue.

This is not solely a pvp issue as basically any skill in the game is affected by player mobility outpacing the servers. Which leads to missed light attacks, casts, ground placed, synergy activation, non target skills, etc. Sure these are more prevalent and witnessed in pvp, but they most certainly happen in pve. Mobs just cant complain or punish you as easily(give feedback) when a skill is missed. I can update the OP to clarify further. There were plenty of threads before on various server interactions and player speed, sadly they were unheard by zos at the time.

We already had the conversation earlier in this thread on speed balance in pve. Maybe you can provide combat instances where the speed is now absolutely necessary for mechanics, because I cannot think of any that aren't a l2p issue. Even so SPRINT SPEED is what should be utilized, not movement speed.

Speed is something that should remain relatively the same in a game, it is dangerous to let it power creep. Its not like boss mechanics weren't designed in a way where they can't be adjusted to suit if needed. As I said before, at the current speed you can WALK fast enough to projectile motion down staircases instead of running. Which is a good indication that we surpassed the game engine design of walking speed. Never thought people would be so accepting/demanding of stat creep in an mmo.

1. vAS+2 (kite heal, off tank - especially when doing mini skips) - uses celerity, 3xswift, expedition, sometimes steed
2. vCR HM (kite heal, mini kiting during mini skips in execute) - uses celerity, 1-2xswift, expedition
3. Rockgrove HM - kiting Oax charges/poison, playing around curses and portal beam on Bahsei HM, running up stairs on Xalvakka, moving to shell on Xalvakka - uses celerity, 1-3xswift, expedition
4. Ansuul HM maze - all players - uses celerity, expedition - sprinting is bad, and causes issues with the mechanics
5. Knot HM - all players - uses celerity, expedition - sprinting is bad here as you will then just die due to not having the stam to roll when mechs come up, even with expert evasion

Edit: speed is already capped at 200%. It is not possible to go faster than that. So it likely doesn't need to be balanced further.

Right? We literally have mechanics where being fast IS the mechanic, and you still need stam. OP, what is the story here? Are you sick of speed runners in dungeons? Obnoxious sorcs in pvp? What prompted this thread?

MincMincMinc

sarahthes wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Hello, its me, the tank that slots celerity and rapids (and sometimes streak!) and still feels too slow for the amount of running some dungeons have. Your original post doesn’t mention PvP at all, only vaguely you want speed nerfed and doesn’t explain why either. While PvPers should be able to talk about their problems, you need to mention how it’s a problem IN PVP and how to fix it IN PVP instead of making it seem this is a game-wide balance issue.

This is not solely a pvp issue as basically any skill in the game is affected by player mobility outpacing the servers. Which leads to missed light attacks, casts, ground placed, synergy activation, non target skills, etc. Sure these are more prevalent and witnessed in pvp, but they most certainly happen in pve. Mobs just cant complain or punish you as easily(give feedback) when a skill is missed. I can update the OP to clarify further. There were plenty of threads before on various server interactions and player speed, sadly they were unheard by zos at the time.

We already had the conversation earlier in this thread on speed balance in pve. Maybe you can provide combat instances where the speed is now absolutely necessary for mechanics, because I cannot think of any that aren't a l2p issue. Even so SPRINT SPEED is what should be utilized, not movement speed.

Speed is something that should remain relatively the same in a game, it is dangerous to let it power creep. Its not like boss mechanics weren't designed in a way where they can't be adjusted to suit if needed. As I said before, at the current speed you can WALK fast enough to projectile motion down staircases instead of running. Which is a good indication that we surpassed the game engine design of walking speed. Never thought people would be so accepting/demanding of stat creep in an mmo.

1. vAS+2 (kite heal, off tank - especially when doing mini skips) - uses celerity, 3xswift, expedition, sometimes steed
2. vCR HM (kite heal, mini kiting during mini skips in execute) - uses celerity, 1-2xswift, expedition
3. Rockgrove HM - kiting Oax charges/poison, playing around curses and portal beam on Bahsei HM, running up stairs on Xalvakka, moving to shell on Xalvakka - uses celerity, 1-3xswift, expedition
4. Ansuul HM maze - all players - uses celerity, expedition - sprinting is bad, and causes issues with the mechanics
5. Knot HM - all players - uses celerity, expedition - sprinting is bad here as you will then just die due to not having the stam to roll when mechs come up, even with expert evasion

Edit: speed is already capped at 200%. It is not possible to go faster than that. So it likely doesn't need to be balanced further.

Last I did beyond vet trial content was summerset release before PvE guild disbandment.

1. Has VAS and vCR had their mechanics sped up? Otherwise both of these were designed and completable without the speed increases.(yes swift was introduced for vcr, but it wasnt used/needed)
2. Rockgrove(I have not gotten to yet) - oax is l2p tank, otherwise I need to do more research if it is necessary
3. Ansuul maze - players outpace the mechanic so much that they need to stop and wait, what sprint issues?
4. Knot - l2p sustain issues for stam, mag players I can see issues, but again with sprint speed and cp it should be fine.

The speed cap is at 200% and player WALKING speed is at 150-194%.....that speed cap was based around sprint speed when fully built for sprinting.

sarahthes

MincMincMinc wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Hello, its me, the tank that slots celerity and rapids (and sometimes streak!) and still feels too slow for the amount of running some dungeons have. Your original post doesn’t mention PvP at all, only vaguely you want speed nerfed and doesn’t explain why either. While PvPers should be able to talk about their problems, you need to mention how it’s a problem IN PVP and how to fix it IN PVP instead of making it seem this is a game-wide balance issue.

This is not solely a pvp issue as basically any skill in the game is affected by player mobility outpacing the servers. Which leads to missed light attacks, casts, ground placed, synergy activation, non target skills, etc. Sure these are more prevalent and witnessed in pvp, but they most certainly happen in pve. Mobs just cant complain or punish you as easily(give feedback) when a skill is missed. I can update the OP to clarify further. There were plenty of threads before on various server interactions and player speed, sadly they were unheard by zos at the time.

We already had the conversation earlier in this thread on speed balance in pve. Maybe you can provide combat instances where the speed is now absolutely necessary for mechanics, because I cannot think of any that aren't a l2p issue. Even so SPRINT SPEED is what should be utilized, not movement speed.

Speed is something that should remain relatively the same in a game, it is dangerous to let it power creep. Its not like boss mechanics weren't designed in a way where they can't be adjusted to suit if needed. As I said before, at the current speed you can WALK fast enough to projectile motion down staircases instead of running. Which is a good indication that we surpassed the game engine design of walking speed. Never thought people would be so accepting/demanding of stat creep in an mmo.

1. vAS+2 (kite heal, off tank - especially when doing mini skips) - uses celerity, 3xswift, expedition, sometimes steed
2. vCR HM (kite heal, mini kiting during mini skips in execute) - uses celerity, 1-2xswift, expedition
3. Rockgrove HM - kiting Oax charges/poison, playing around curses and portal beam on Bahsei HM, running up stairs on Xalvakka, moving to shell on Xalvakka - uses celerity, 1-3xswift, expedition
4. Ansuul HM maze - all players - uses celerity, expedition - sprinting is bad, and causes issues with the mechanics
5. Knot HM - all players - uses celerity, expedition - sprinting is bad here as you will then just die due to not having the stam to roll when mechs come up, even with expert evasion

Edit: speed is already capped at 200%. It is not possible to go faster than that. So it likely doesn't need to be balanced further.

Last I did beyond vet trial content was summerset release before PvE guild disbandment.

1. Has VAS and vCR had their mechanics sped up? Otherwise both of these were designed and completable without the speed increases.(yes swift was introduced for vcr, but it wasnt used/needed)
2. Rockgrove(I have not gotten to yet) - oax is l2p tank, otherwise I need to do more research if it is necessary
3. Ansuul maze - players outpace the mechanic so much that they need to stop and wait, what sprint issues?
4. Knot - l2p sustain issues for stam, mag players I can see issues, but again with sprint speed and cp it should be fine.

The speed cap is at 200% and player WALKING speed is at 150-194%.....that speed cap was based around sprint speed when fully built for sprinting.

1. Ain't nobody going back to do 7 minute vAS/vCR. I am talking about speed/scorepush strats.
2. I am talking about healer mechanics and charge cancelling, not tank mechanics (for Oax). And healers handling mechanics while still healing the group properly for Bahsei, and pushing speed strats for Xalvakka.
3. I am talking about HM, where sprinting makes you too fast but boosted walking speed winds up just right.
4. Literally not. Have you cleared the HM? If you aren't fast enough the atros start light attacking for 35-40K through block. You have to be fast. It's a literal race.

MincMincMinc

Reginald_leBlem wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Hello, its me, the tank that slots celerity and rapids (and sometimes streak!) and still feels too slow for the amount of running some dungeons have. Your original post doesn’t mention PvP at all, only vaguely you want speed nerfed and doesn’t explain why either. While PvPers should be able to talk about their problems, you need to mention how it’s a problem IN PVP and how to fix it IN PVP instead of making it seem this is a game-wide balance issue.

This is not solely a pvp issue as basically any skill in the game is affected by player mobility outpacing the servers. Which leads to missed light attacks, casts, ground placed, synergy activation, non target skills, etc. Sure these are more prevalent and witnessed in pvp, but they most certainly happen in pve. Mobs just cant complain or punish you as easily(give feedback) when a skill is missed. I can update the OP to clarify further. There were plenty of threads before on various server interactions and player speed, sadly they were unheard by zos at the time.

We already had the conversation earlier in this thread on speed balance in pve. Maybe you can provide combat instances where the speed is now absolutely necessary for mechanics, because I cannot think of any that aren't a l2p issue. Even so SPRINT SPEED is what should be utilized, not movement speed.

Speed is something that should remain relatively the same in a game, it is dangerous to let it power creep. Its not like boss mechanics weren't designed in a way where they can't be adjusted to suit if needed. As I said before, at the current speed you can WALK fast enough to projectile motion down staircases instead of running. Which is a good indication that we surpassed the game engine design of walking speed. Never thought people would be so accepting/demanding of stat creep in an mmo.

1. vAS+2 (kite heal, off tank - especially when doing mini skips) - uses celerity, 3xswift, expedition, sometimes steed
2. vCR HM (kite heal, mini kiting during mini skips in execute) - uses celerity, 1-2xswift, expedition
3. Rockgrove HM - kiting Oax charges/poison, playing around curses and portal beam on Bahsei HM, running up stairs on Xalvakka, moving to shell on Xalvakka - uses celerity, 1-3xswift, expedition
4. Ansuul HM maze - all players - uses celerity, expedition - sprinting is bad, and causes issues with the mechanics
5. Knot HM - all players - uses celerity, expedition - sprinting is bad here as you will then just die due to not having the stam to roll when mechs come up, even with expert evasion

Edit: speed is already capped at 200%. It is not possible to go faster than that. So it likely doesn't need to be balanced further.

Right? We literally have mechanics where being fast IS the mechanic, and you still need stam. OP, what is the story here? Are you sick of speed runners in dungeons? Obnoxious sorcs in pvp? What prompted this thread?

This stemmed off of first week pts threads where people were talking about the nb changes and attacks missing with their speed. If you were around at the time of summerset murkmire as explained there were tons of threads asking zos to address the issues surrounding the creep of movement speed. Efforts were typically focused else where, as usual.

Funny you say, I am a speed runner in dungeons and a sorc in pvp lol. Many new wave players simply dont know how great the game used to play back when everything was mechanically smooth and functional. Now people complain about unregistering skills, spotty combat, mechanics breaking, synergies impossible to hit, etc.....without knowing why.

MincMincMinc

sarahthes wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Hello, its me, the tank that slots celerity and rapids (and sometimes streak!) and still feels too slow for the amount of running some dungeons have. Your original post doesn’t mention PvP at all, only vaguely you want speed nerfed and doesn’t explain why either. While PvPers should be able to talk about their problems, you need to mention how it’s a problem IN PVP and how to fix it IN PVP instead of making it seem this is a game-wide balance issue.

This is not solely a pvp issue as basically any skill in the game is affected by player mobility outpacing the servers. Which leads to missed light attacks, casts, ground placed, synergy activation, non target skills, etc. Sure these are more prevalent and witnessed in pvp, but they most certainly happen in pve. Mobs just cant complain or punish you as easily(give feedback) when a skill is missed. I can update the OP to clarify further. There were plenty of threads before on various server interactions and player speed, sadly they were unheard by zos at the time.

We already had the conversation earlier in this thread on speed balance in pve. Maybe you can provide combat instances where the speed is now absolutely necessary for mechanics, because I cannot think of any that aren't a l2p issue. Even so SPRINT SPEED is what should be utilized, not movement speed.

Speed is something that should remain relatively the same in a game, it is dangerous to let it power creep. Its not like boss mechanics weren't designed in a way where they can't be adjusted to suit if needed. As I said before, at the current speed you can WALK fast enough to projectile motion down staircases instead of running. Which is a good indication that we surpassed the game engine design of walking speed. Never thought people would be so accepting/demanding of stat creep in an mmo.

1. vAS+2 (kite heal, off tank - especially when doing mini skips) - uses celerity, 3xswift, expedition, sometimes steed
2. vCR HM (kite heal, mini kiting during mini skips in execute) - uses celerity, 1-2xswift, expedition
3. Rockgrove HM - kiting Oax charges/poison, playing around curses and portal beam on Bahsei HM, running up stairs on Xalvakka, moving to shell on Xalvakka - uses celerity, 1-3xswift, expedition
4. Ansuul HM maze - all players - uses celerity, expedition - sprinting is bad, and causes issues with the mechanics
5. Knot HM - all players - uses celerity, expedition - sprinting is bad here as you will then just die due to not having the stam to roll when mechs come up, even with expert evasion

Edit: speed is already capped at 200%. It is not possible to go faster than that. So it likely doesn't need to be balanced further.

Last I did beyond vet trial content was summerset release before PvE guild disbandment.

1. Has VAS and vCR had their mechanics sped up? Otherwise both of these were designed and completable without the speed increases.(yes swift was introduced for vcr, but it wasnt used/needed)
2. Rockgrove(I have not gotten to yet) - oax is l2p tank, otherwise I need to do more research if it is necessary
3. Ansuul maze - players outpace the mechanic so much that they need to stop and wait, what sprint issues?
4. Knot - l2p sustain issues for stam, mag players I can see issues, but again with sprint speed and cp it should be fine.

The speed cap is at 200% and player WALKING speed is at 150-194%.....that speed cap was based around sprint speed when fully built for sprinting.

1. Ain't nobody going back to do 7 minute vAS/vCR. I am talking about speed/scorepush strats.
2. I am talking about healer mechanics and charge cancelling, not tank mechanics (for Oax). And healers handling mechanics while still healing the group properly for Bahsei, and pushing speed strats for Xalvakka.
3. I am talking about HM, where sprinting makes you too fast but boosted walking speed winds up just right.
4. Literally not. Have you cleared the HM? If you aren't fast enough the atros start light attacking for 35-40K through block. You have to be fast. It's a literal race.

1. Its not like only your group would be reduced speed.....
2. IF it had to, this could be adjusted with the standardization
3. Maze argument is silly, thats purely a want or l2p issue
4. Again, IF it needed to be adjusted it would be simple on zos's part

Even in my proposed speed its not like I was asking to remove all speed buffs from the game.

• old was up to (90+10+30) 130% walk speed + sprint
• Current is around 150%-200% walk speed....sprint doesnt even have to be a function of the game.
• Proposed was around 130-160% walk speed + sprint

One or two mechanics having to be adjusted is no reason to allow the entirety of combat to be misfunctioning across the rest of the game.

sarahthes

MincMincMinc wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Hello, its me, the tank that slots celerity and rapids (and sometimes streak!) and still feels too slow for the amount of running some dungeons have. Your original post doesn’t mention PvP at all, only vaguely you want speed nerfed and doesn’t explain why either. While PvPers should be able to talk about their problems, you need to mention how it’s a problem IN PVP and how to fix it IN PVP instead of making it seem this is a game-wide balance issue.

This is not solely a pvp issue as basically any skill in the game is affected by player mobility outpacing the servers. Which leads to missed light attacks, casts, ground placed, synergy activation, non target skills, etc. Sure these are more prevalent and witnessed in pvp, but they most certainly happen in pve. Mobs just cant complain or punish you as easily(give feedback) when a skill is missed. I can update the OP to clarify further. There were plenty of threads before on various server interactions and player speed, sadly they were unheard by zos at the time.

We already had the conversation earlier in this thread on speed balance in pve. Maybe you can provide combat instances where the speed is now absolutely necessary for mechanics, because I cannot think of any that aren't a l2p issue. Even so SPRINT SPEED is what should be utilized, not movement speed.

Speed is something that should remain relatively the same in a game, it is dangerous to let it power creep. Its not like boss mechanics weren't designed in a way where they can't be adjusted to suit if needed. As I said before, at the current speed you can WALK fast enough to projectile motion down staircases instead of running. Which is a good indication that we surpassed the game engine design of walking speed. Never thought people would be so accepting/demanding of stat creep in an mmo.

1. vAS+2 (kite heal, off tank - especially when doing mini skips) - uses celerity, 3xswift, expedition, sometimes steed
2. vCR HM (kite heal, mini kiting during mini skips in execute) - uses celerity, 1-2xswift, expedition
3. Rockgrove HM - kiting Oax charges/poison, playing around curses and portal beam on Bahsei HM, running up stairs on Xalvakka, moving to shell on Xalvakka - uses celerity, 1-3xswift, expedition
4. Ansuul HM maze - all players - uses celerity, expedition - sprinting is bad, and causes issues with the mechanics
5. Knot HM - all players - uses celerity, expedition - sprinting is bad here as you will then just die due to not having the stam to roll when mechs come up, even with expert evasion

Edit: speed is already capped at 200%. It is not possible to go faster than that. So it likely doesn't need to be balanced further.

Last I did beyond vet trial content was summerset release before PvE guild disbandment.

1. Has VAS and vCR had their mechanics sped up? Otherwise both of these were designed and completable without the speed increases.(yes swift was introduced for vcr, but it wasnt used/needed)
2. Rockgrove(I have not gotten to yet) - oax is l2p tank, otherwise I need to do more research if it is necessary
3. Ansuul maze - players outpace the mechanic so much that they need to stop and wait, what sprint issues?
4. Knot - l2p sustain issues for stam, mag players I can see issues, but again with sprint speed and cp it should be fine.

The speed cap is at 200% and player WALKING speed is at 150-194%.....that speed cap was based around sprint speed when fully built for sprinting.

1. Ain't nobody going back to do 7 minute vAS/vCR. I am talking about speed/scorepush strats.
2. I am talking about healer mechanics and charge cancelling, not tank mechanics (for Oax). And healers handling mechanics while still healing the group properly for Bahsei, and pushing speed strats for Xalvakka.
3. I am talking about HM, where sprinting makes you too fast but boosted walking speed winds up just right.
4. Literally not. Have you cleared the HM? If you aren't fast enough the atros start light attacking for 35-40K through block. You have to be fast. It's a literal race.

1. Its not like only your group would be reduced speed.....
2. IF it had to, this could be adjusted with the standardization
3. Maze argument is silly, thats purely a want or l2p issue
4. Again, IF it needed to be adjusted it would be simple on zos's part

Even in my proposed speed its not like I was asking to remove all speed buffs from the game.

• old was up to (90+10+30) 130% walk speed + sprint
• Current is around 150%-200% walk speed....sprint doesnt even have to be a function of the game.
• Proposed was around 130-160% walk speed + sprint

One or two mechanics having to be adjusted is no reason to allow the entirety of combat to be misfunctioning across the rest of the game.

There's a speed cap already.

ZOS has historically not adjusted mechanics for anything in PvE even when it would be beneficial to do so.

Endgame is already at an all time low. Stop trying to get them to kill it entirely because you're mad about PvP. People don't "l2p" when their fun gets taken away. They just stop playing.

If speed cap is a problem in PvP, lower the PvP cap. But then they better fix being unable to mount when stuck in combat...

YandereGirlfriend

This strikes me as a solution in search of a problem.

MincMincMinc

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

This strikes me as a solution in search of a problem.

Well the problem has been clearly stated multiple times. Functionally there are issues with skills and other core mechanics of the game not processing with high player movement speed. It seems people have just accepted the state of the game and would rather ride the wave instead of try to address things.

sarahthes wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Hello, its me, the tank that slots celerity and rapids (and sometimes streak!) and still feels too slow for the amount of running some dungeons have. Your original post doesn’t mention PvP at all, only vaguely you want speed nerfed and doesn’t explain why either. While PvPers should be able to talk about their problems, you need to mention how it’s a problem IN PVP and how to fix it IN PVP instead of making it seem this is a game-wide balance issue.

This is not solely a pvp issue as basically any skill in the game is affected by player mobility outpacing the servers. Which leads to missed light attacks, casts, ground placed, synergy activation, non target skills, etc. Sure these are more prevalent and witnessed in pvp, but they most certainly happen in pve. Mobs just cant complain or punish you as easily(give feedback) when a skill is missed. I can update the OP to clarify further. There were plenty of threads before on various server interactions and player speed, sadly they were unheard by zos at the time.

We already had the conversation earlier in this thread on speed balance in pve. Maybe you can provide combat instances where the speed is now absolutely necessary for mechanics, because I cannot think of any that aren't a l2p issue. Even so SPRINT SPEED is what should be utilized, not movement speed.

Speed is something that should remain relatively the same in a game, it is dangerous to let it power creep. Its not like boss mechanics weren't designed in a way where they can't be adjusted to suit if needed. As I said before, at the current speed you can WALK fast enough to projectile motion down staircases instead of running. Which is a good indication that we surpassed the game engine design of walking speed. Never thought people would be so accepting/demanding of stat creep in an mmo.

1. vAS+2 (kite heal, off tank - especially when doing mini skips) - uses celerity, 3xswift, expedition, sometimes steed
2. vCR HM (kite heal, mini kiting during mini skips in execute) - uses celerity, 1-2xswift, expedition
3. Rockgrove HM - kiting Oax charges/poison, playing around curses and portal beam on Bahsei HM, running up stairs on Xalvakka, moving to shell on Xalvakka - uses celerity, 1-3xswift, expedition
4. Ansuul HM maze - all players - uses celerity, expedition - sprinting is bad, and causes issues with the mechanics
5. Knot HM - all players - uses celerity, expedition - sprinting is bad here as you will then just die due to not having the stam to roll when mechs come up, even with expert evasion

Edit: speed is already capped at 200%. It is not possible to go faster than that. So it likely doesn't need to be balanced further.

Last I did beyond vet trial content was summerset release before PvE guild disbandment.

1. Has VAS and vCR had their mechanics sped up? Otherwise both of these were designed and completable without the speed increases.(yes swift was introduced for vcr, but it wasnt used/needed)
2. Rockgrove(I have not gotten to yet) - oax is l2p tank, otherwise I need to do more research if it is necessary
3. Ansuul maze - players outpace the mechanic so much that they need to stop and wait, what sprint issues?
4. Knot - l2p sustain issues for stam, mag players I can see issues, but again with sprint speed and cp it should be fine.

The speed cap is at 200% and player WALKING speed is at 150-194%.....that speed cap was based around sprint speed when fully built for sprinting.

1. Ain't nobody going back to do 7 minute vAS/vCR. I am talking about speed/scorepush strats.
2. I am talking about healer mechanics and charge cancelling, not tank mechanics (for Oax). And healers handling mechanics while still healing the group properly for Bahsei, and pushing speed strats for Xalvakka.
3. I am talking about HM, where sprinting makes you too fast but boosted walking speed winds up just right.
4. Literally not. Have you cleared the HM? If you aren't fast enough the atros start light attacking for 35-40K through block. You have to be fast. It's a literal race.

1. Its not like only your group would be reduced speed.....
2. IF it had to, this could be adjusted with the standardization
3. Maze argument is silly, thats purely a want or l2p issue
4. Again, IF it needed to be adjusted it would be simple on zos's part

Even in my proposed speed its not like I was asking to remove all speed buffs from the game.

• old was up to (90+10+30) 130% walk speed + sprint
• Current is around 150%-200% walk speed....sprint doesnt even have to be a function of the game.
• Proposed was around 130-160% walk speed + sprint

One or two mechanics having to be adjusted is no reason to allow the entirety of combat to be misfunctioning across the rest of the game.

There's a speed cap already.

ZOS has historically not adjusted mechanics for anything in PvE even when it would be beneficial to do so.

Endgame is already at an all time low. Stop trying to get them to kill it entirely because you're mad about PvP. People don't "l2p" when their fun gets taken away. They just stop playing.

If speed cap is a problem in PvP, lower the PvP cap. But then they better fix being unable to mount when stuck in combat...

Speed cap means nothing if the average player sits two thirds the way there being able to ignore core functions and mechanics of the game.... you said it yourself players are preferring to run speed and not use sprint at all.

We have wildly different views of fun. Are we just saying that power/stat creep is fun? I prefer to actually play a functional challenging game that I can improve at.... not just a garbled mess where my progression is waiting patch to patch for my stats to inflate while addons tell me which buttons to press for boss mechanics.

Soarora

Can I bring up accessibility as well? Yes, you could do Cloudrest without swift. I got it GH with celerity + major expedition… BUT the population of this game is on the older side. Not everyone has the reflexes to run immediately, going faster would give them more time.

And also, LC HM last boss REALLY does require you to go fast, like Sarah said. That’s the overarching mechanic. Even LC 2nd boss needs speed as the OT kites 2 ruinarchs for a good minute or so. These ruinarchs apply a heavy bleed if they melee hit you.

There’s much bigger problems than player speed for dev time to focus on. Like why don’t skills go off reliably (hitting 1 skill several times in a row, you’ll notice it skips casts), why is necro so bad at anything other than tank, why is templar, etc. I can’t think of any mechanic you can straight up skip by being too fast as most if not all mechanics that chase you actually go faster the longer they’re up and bosses can’t be kited anymore due to anti-roll mechanics.

MincMincMinc

There is most certainly input registration issues. For the most part pvp lag has been improved(although mainly due to reduced server pops) However what is noticed first at primetime is button registration. I am not entirely certain if eso has an input buffering system that is breaking down. If you have ever played a newer super smash bros vs ssb melee you can see what I mean. The only counter to it is simply just pressing buttons slower as lag increases.

They still didnt fix the desync issues caused by light>medium attacks...even though they tried several times.

With zos talking about overarching standardizations, I don't see why this would be given a blind eye. Zos has and still is adjusting encompassing systems in the game so they can move inwards with restructuring. I imagine at some point we will see stat reworks like spell and weapon damage just become damage. Same for just crit. Back in murkmire they had already stated that speed was too high and easily achieved... we have only added to that since.

Accessibility? Higher speed, quick control, and tight inputs dont go well with older players. Many of my guildies were 50+ one of the guys quite literally only had one hand to play with. I had even tried to get them to run swift and more speed to help them compensate, but they would refuse.

ESO_player123

Swift should be 5%? Do not even think about touching my ring of the Wild Hunt. I like to get as fast as possible wherever I'm going.
As others have said, if it's an issue in PvP, propose the changes under battle spirit. I do not see many people complaining about speed in PvE.

NuarBlack

Soarora wrote: »

There’s much bigger problems than player speed for dev time to focus on. Like why don’t skills go off reliably (hitting 1 skill several times in a row, you’ll notice it skips casts), why is necro so bad at anything other than tank, why is templar, etc. I can’t think of any mechanic you can straight up skip by being too fast as most if not all mechanics that chase you actually go faster the longer they’re up and bosses can’t be kited anymore due to anti-roll mechanics.

Wait, you serious? One of the primary reasons skills don't fire is desync caused by too much speed. Speed is the primary culprit. Slowing down the game would literally improve skills firing more consistently.

And before you go blaming the servers think about what you are asking especially after you made the argument that the devs need to be efficient with their time. What is easier? Adjusting player speed or expensive server overhauls?

DrSlaughtr

Skulptro wrote: »

Im a templar main.
I dueled a nightblade one evening. He didn't even use invisibility. I had to chase him to deal any damage, stack my procs, mind the positioning, because he was allways outside of my circles, kyting me. And when he stacks enough ultimate, he presses 2-3 buttons, and Im gone. In one second or so. I won 1 duel of 5-6 may be. And that was really hard and long fight. And if I will go to Open World in my build - I'm screwed. If he goes in his current build - he is fine, running, kyting and deleting after 180 degree turn and 2-3 buttons. While I have to target my jabs, look for some circles on the ground, etc. other one can jst run around on his backbar. Swap bars and press 2 buttons to win.

And this NB had 36k HP. I had 31k. He can stack more health and still do crazy damage. And he was also fast as Speedy Gonzales.

So he was just running around me, nothing I could do. When I charged to him - I'm outside of my circles, I don't get healing, and he bursts me down. GG.

I think more and more frequently about dropping the game.

Respectfully, you made several mistakes.

1. Don't chase runners. They are setting you up.

2. Don't fight outside your circle. You are vulnerable to burst damage if your main defensive focus is circle.

3. Dueling is sweaty business and isn't indicative of anything. PVP comes down to who makes the first mistake that the other person takes advantage of. That's the great and worse thing about it. Most of the time when a player dies in pvp, it was immediately preceded by a misstep. Not blocking on a flag. Not watching flank while kiting a rock. Sitting blindly on siege during battle. Missing hitting a heal in the middle of getting burst down.

It's easier to blame the other person for doing something "wrong" than consider what we could have done better to win.

Soarora

NuarBlack wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

There’s much bigger problems than player speed for dev time to focus on. Like why don’t skills go off reliably (hitting 1 skill several times in a row, you’ll notice it skips casts), why is necro so bad at anything other than tank, why is templar, etc. I can’t think of any mechanic you can straight up skip by being too fast as most if not all mechanics that chase you actually go faster the longer they’re up and bosses can’t be kited anymore due to anti-roll mechanics.

Wait, you serious? One of the primary reasons skills don't fire is desync caused by too much speed. Speed is the primary culprit. Slowing down the game would literally improve skills firing more consistently.

And before you go blaming the servers think about what you are asking especially after you made the argument that the devs need to be efficient with their time. What is easier? Adjusting player speed or expensive server overhauls?

In what way? Stand completely still in a house with only you and hit a skill like combat prayer as many times as you can in a row onto the ground. It doesn’t matter that no one is moving, inputs get skipped. That’s what I was referring to.

Player speed isn’t the only problem, if its a problem at all.

VixxVexx

Player speed is a problem. The game clearly can't handle it so we have to deal with positional desyncs.

Personally, I don't think a handful of hardmode trial mechanics are a good counter-argument.
You don't adjust the game according to a couple of small instances, you adjust the small instances for the whole game.
Example: Adress movement speed, then tweak the monsters in those 5 hardmodes.

Skulptro

DrSlaughtr wrote: »

Skulptro wrote: »

Im a templar main.
I dueled a nightblade one evening. He didn't even use invisibility. I had to chase him to deal any damage, stack my procs, mind the positioning, because he was allways outside of my circles, kyting me. And when he stacks enough ultimate, he presses 2-3 buttons, and Im gone. In one second or so. I won 1 duel of 5-6 may be. And that was really hard and long fight. And if I will go to Open World in my build - I'm screwed. If he goes in his current build - he is fine, running, kyting and deleting after 180 degree turn and 2-3 buttons. While I have to target my jabs, look for some circles on the ground, etc. other one can jst run around on his backbar. Swap bars and press 2 buttons to win.

And this NB had 36k HP. I had 31k. He can stack more health and still do crazy damage. And he was also fast as Speedy Gonzales.

So he was just running around me, nothing I could do. When I charged to him - I'm outside of my circles, I don't get healing, and he bursts me down. GG.

I think more and more frequently about dropping the game.

Respectfully, you made several mistakes.

1. Don't chase runners. They are setting you up.

2. Don't fight outside your circle. You are vulnerable to burst damage if your main defensive focus is circle.

3. Dueling is sweaty business and isn't indicative of anything. PVP comes down to who makes the first mistake that the other person takes advantage of. That's the great and worse thing about it. Most of the time when a player dies in pvp, it was immediately preceded by a misstep. Not blocking on a flag. Not watching flank while kiting a rock. Sitting blindly on siege during battle. Missing hitting a heal in the middle of getting burst down.

It's easier to blame the other person for doing something "wrong" than consider what we could have done better to win.

So I just have to wait, until this Speedy Gonzales pokes 500 ult Balorg from his ice staff, while being out of my reach? No any HoT can save from such a burst. Not even sure, how I managed to win one duel out of 6. But ofc it's my mistakes, not like templar is trash due to ZOS poor balancing.

MincMincMinc

Still just baffles me that people want to advocate for stat creep, especially when it isn't a simple counter. Like if damage creeps, bosses just get higher health. Speed is not so simple. Even if the servers had no issue, its not like they can just throw a multiplier on the map size and player size.

Well, they could.....it would just be the worst way possible to make the adjustment.

ESO_player123 wrote: »

Swift should be 5%? Do not even think about touching my ring of the Wild Hunt. I like to get as fast as possible wherever I'm going.
As others have said, if it's an issue in PvP, propose the changes under battle spirit. I do not see many people complaining about speed in PvE.

To rehash the same argument. Zos has stated that they don't want gameplay to differ between pve and pvp many times. Dont you think they would have taken that cop-out at any point in the past 10 years of people complaining about far more controversial issues?

My proposal doesn't touch the speed cap, you can still build for speed if you wanted to. You could still use the inefficient wild hunt if that's your thing. If you are asking to not touch the incombat movement speed because you like the out of combat movement speed....that is not a reasonable excuse to not have a functioning game. You could still easily achieve cap for out of combat builds with sprint speed.

My proposed values aren't even extreme, we still would be near double the pre summerset average movement speed.