It's time to revert the listing time back to 30 days.

ComboBreaker88

<snip> I respectfully request that the guild listing duration be reverted from the current 14 days back to 30 days.

Here's the community feedback:

<Snipped due to Conspiracy Theories and Misinformation>

Treeshka

Keep it same but mail listing fee back if an item is expired.

kargen27

None of that really has anything to do with the 14 day thing. A lot of it is pure speculation with zero attempt at proof.

wolfie1.0.

Yes, revert us to 30 days

kargen27 wrote: »

None of that really has anything to do with the 14 day thing. A lot of it is pure speculation with zero attempt at proof.

Perception doesn't need proof, it just needs to exist to have an impact.

LaintalAy

No, keep us at 14 days

edited

spartaxoxo

No, keep us at 14 days

Bots are prevalent in many games because they're hard to get rid of. You smack some down and new ones get put up.

Shara_Wynn

No, keep us at 14 days

My items used to typically sell within the first day or two. I don't see how the 14 day change would have any bearing on that.

ComboBreaker88 wrote: »

[snip]

I'm not sure that it's that easy to deal with the bot situation in the game.

ComboBreaker88 wrote: »

[snip]

LOL ok pretty sure the mods will be out with the snipping tool this morning! No I don't think that is what they (ZOS) are doing with bots.

I personally do feel a level of fatigue with all the constant events. There is an event on every month that lasts for 12 days. That's a LOT of time for events. I am also fatigued with the ink/script grind. Add to this all the new monthly incentives to complete this zone and get a shiny continues with August's Oblivion Portal Rush. So maybe others feel this also and are just, taking time out from ESO during (what is for most) the summer months.

[edited to remove quote]

bmnoble

Have both options a 14 day and 30 day listing, with the 30 day listing having the standard fee and the 14 day listing fee being half that of the 30 day one.

Ilumia

Yes, revert us to 30 days

It is just not my idea of fun to log in to so many expired listings regularly - get rid of the awful 14 day listing timers!

(Info before team "you're doing it wrong" turns up). I'm in 4 trading guilds times 2 accounts. Yes I've lowered prices, a lot. Even on rare items where I sell the only one on the server. Rare stuff used to move, now it doesn't much, and I don't need that in my face everyday I log in to play. I still do allright for sales, but it's boring and tedious now.

I_killed_Vivec

Yes, revert us to 30 days

Ilumia wrote: »

It is just not my idea of fun to log in to so many expired listings regularly - get rid of the awful 14 day listing timers!

(Info before team "you're doing it wrong" turns up). I'm in 4 trading guilds times 2 accounts. Yes I've lowered prices, a lot. Even on rare items where I sell the only one on the server. Rare stuff used to move, now it doesn't much, and I don't need that in my face everyday I log in to play. I still do allright for sales, but it's boring and tedious now.

Also in before team "if it doesn't sell lower your price" comes in to tell me that they will decide how much I should sell items for that "anyone can just pick up"

LaintalAy

No, keep us at 14 days

moi?

DenverRalphy

I'm not a fan of the 14 day listing time by any means. So I'd normally vote yes. Except that this poll decided to dump a false premise as to why it should be changed, so I abstain from the vote.

rothan117

No, keep us at 14 days

Reverting it will not make prices go back up. They will continue to drop until the supply and demand reach balance again. It might reduce the trader maintenance those who are complaining are having to do. They will just wait longer for the overpriced item to expire when the price drops below what they put it up at. My stuff is selling, I don't need 30 days, if it has not sold in 4 to 6 days, I put something else up that will sell or reprice the item so it will sell. A slot that holds an item that is not selling is a wasted slot that is producing no income.

Northwold

No, keep us at 14 days

ESO is not purely a game for sellers, so no thanks.

sarahthes

No, keep us at 14 days

Doesn't matter if it gets reverted or not. Prices aren't going back up.

I_killed_Vivec

Yes, revert us to 30 days

rothan117 wrote: »

My stuff is selling

...

if it has not sold in 4 to 6 days, I put something else up that will sell or reprice the item so it will sell.

Apparently your stuff is not selling because you admit you are replacing items that won't sell or reducing prices to try to get them to sell. So you are losing money on listing fees - as well as accepting a reduced price.

And you are doing this in a weekly cycle. So presumably you'd be happy with a 7 day limit?

Northwold wrote: »

ESO is not purely a game for sellers, so no thanks.

But without sellers there are no buyers.

Even if there were a need to correct the prices, this 14 day limit hits sellers twice - reduced prices and increased listing fees. ZoS could have chosen to halve listing fees, seems reasonable as items are listed for half the time, but they did not.

sarahthes

No, keep us at 14 days

90% of my stuff sells within 1-2 weeks and I relist around 10%.

This also happened previously except I didn't watch as closely and probably had to relist around 15%.

These are rough estimates as I didn't make a spreadsheet or anything.

EdjeSwift

ComboBreaker88 wrote: »

Sales are experiencing a massive (60-70%) decline across all areas. Players are experiencing burnout due to the repetitive nature of events, which primarily involve common items being labeled legendary (gold) and engaging in excessive fetch quests or repetitive tasks. Edit to remove opinion. In light of these concerns, I respectfully request that the guild listing duration be reverted from the current 14 days back to 30 days.

Here's the community feedback:

I'm going to break this down.

Sales are experiencing a massive (60-70%) decline across all areas.

Where is the evidence to back this up? Are you speaking with any authority or just using anecdotal and forum evidence? Because I've seen people both complain and people still thriving. Throwing out numbers like this doesn't really support anything without hard evidence.

Players are experiencing burnout due to the repetitive nature of events, which primarily involve common items being labeled legendary (gold) and engaging in excessive fetch quests or repetitive tasks

Really? I thought primary objective of events was to participate in the event and obtain tickets/new items. I didn't realize the double AP and such from MYM was just a secondary thing to obtaining the seven(7!) new Ayleid Lich style pages. As for the burnout aspect, I highly doubt opening one box a day(outside of the current MYM event) is causing burnout. The next undaunted event you will literally have to do ONE Fungal Grotto I run a day to get your shiny box, that's like 7 minutes solo. Event after that? One West Weald delve daily which even the longest one with the worst RNG will take 10 minutes tops with efficiency.

In light of these concerns, I respectfully request that the guild listing duration be reverted from the current 14 days back to 30 days.

But why? You present two "facts"(loosely used) and no reasoning or causation for the proposal. You don't posit why an increase in duration would help anything here, you're just throwing something at the wall and hoping it sticks.

Highwayman

EdjeSwift wrote: »

Where is the evidence to back this up? Are you speaking with any authority or just using anecdotal and forum evidence? Because I've seen people both complain and people still thriving. Throwing out numbers like this doesn't really support anything without hard evidence.

This is fair, we simply don't have enough data to make a call either way. Everything is anecdotal.

It's also fair to say there are hints of a systemic problem due to the nature of the game being designed to handle massive inflation and not a deflationary correction. Only people with the over head view of everything would really have a chance of being able to tell.

TybaltKaine

No, keep us at 14 days

Adjust to the change and move on.

Orbital78

No, keep us at 14 days

I don't think the duration is the issue, the fees are. I also feel that they likely removed a lot of ill-gotten gold from the game. People cannot get excessive amounts of gold for a few bucks as easily. Unfortunately I think we have to weather the storm and trade guilds will have to ride or die.

loosej

Yes, revert us to 30 days

Doesn't make much of a difference for me, I was relisting after 7 days before the change. But I can see how it's an inconvenience for a lot of people, and I don't believe the fairy tale that this change will have (already has?) a positive impact on performance.

Northwold

No, keep us at 14 days

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

Even if there were a need to correct the prices, this 14 day limit hits sellers twice - reduced prices and increased listing fees. ZoS could have chosen to halve listing fees, seems reasonable as items are listed for half the time, but they did not.

Well, you're describing a goldsink that actually works, which is what people have often previously claimed the trading system is (it wasn't a very good one, since the only inflation it was combating through guild bids was a portion of the inflation created by the structure of the trading system itself).

People can respond to this in two ways.

(1) Keep charging the same prices they used to and watch their gold get eaten.

(2) Adjust pricing to be competitive.

Separately, if trading guilds aren't going to lower their bids, well, in the not too distant future the leading guilds will see themselves replaced by others.

SilverBride

No, keep us at 14 days

I very rarely left anything up more than a week without taking it down and relisting at a lower price, so this change hasn't affected how I sell.

hiyde

Yes, revert us to 30 days

EdjeSwift wrote: »

Sales are experiencing a massive (60-70%) decline across all areas.

Where is the evidence to back this up? Are you speaking with any authority or just using anecdotal and forum evidence? Because I've seen people both complain and people still thriving. Throwing out numbers like this doesn't really support anything without hard evidence.

As a GM/Officer of two long-time trade guilds and member of numerous others, I can confirm these are exactly the sales drops we're seeing. A week-to-week 40% drop just after Jubilee followed by a slower decline of another 30% since. Sales trended downward during events that typically lift sales (Jubilee, Zenithar, Chapter, MYM).

Number of items being listed/sold is also lower, meaning this isn't just prices going down, but participation in trading taking a significant hit right now.

Do I have data on every trade guild in the game? No. But it's a big enough data sample for me to believe this is the overall trend (along with what other players are reporting). I've got 10 years worth of data and we've never seen anything like this.

I'm not forecasting doom. This is where things stand right now. We'll see how it all shakes out.

EdjeSwift

hiyde wrote: »

As a GM/Officer of two long-time trade guilds and member of numerous others, I can confirm these are exactly the sales drops we're seeing. A week-to-week 40% drop just after Jubilee followed by a slower decline of another 30% since. Sales trended downward during events that typically lift sales (Jubilee, Zenithar, Chapter, MYM).

Your perspective is taken from April to August, with proper justification due to the events you mentioned, the issue presented here is due directly to the 14 day listings. Which would have been from June to August, could you share your data for the past two months in terms of decline? You mentioned a 30% over the time since Jubilee, but how did the actual change in listings affect your guild sales?

hiyde

Yes, revert us to 30 days

EdjeSwift wrote: »

hiyde wrote: »

As a GM/Officer of two long-time trade guilds and member of numerous others, I can confirm these are exactly the sales drops we're seeing. A week-to-week 40% drop just after Jubilee followed by a slower decline of another 30% since. Sales trended downward during events that typically lift sales (Jubilee, Zenithar, Chapter, MYM).

Your perspective is taken from April to August, with proper justification due to the events you mentioned, the issue presented here is due directly to the 14 day listings. Which would have been from June to August, could you share your data for the past two months in terms of decline? You mentioned a 30% over the time since Jubilee, but how did the actual change in listings affect your guild sales?

- Jubliee sales did not rise (not typical)

- Directly after Jubilee, sales plummet 40% in both of our guilds (they did not change kiosks) with similar drops in other guilds I'm in. This was *before* the listings changes.

- Subsequent to that, we had Zenithar, Gold Road Release & MYM, all of these things typically bump sales but throughout these events (and the introduction of the listings changes), sales declined another ~30%.

Do I think the listings change was the prime factor in this? Absolutely not. But it is absolutely being pointed to as part of the reason long-time traders are departing/taking a break right now.

From the point of view of these folks, it's along the lines of:
sales are way down, it's harder to sell even with lowered prices, the listings change is a PITA and Gold Road wasn't what they were hoping for.

EdjeSwift

hiyde wrote: »

Do I think the listings change was the prime factor in this? Absolutely not. But it is absolutely being pointed to as part of the reason long-time traders are departing/taking a break right now.

So clearly the numbers the OP posted don't correlate with the premise, but since we're actually discussing the effects of the listing change, I ask you a few questions.

What about the listing changes made the long term traders go?
Was it the repeat listing?
The loss of gold due to relisting?
Needing to do more work?

Followed up by:
Even if the listing changes were to go back to 30 days how would this change anything?
Would things that weren't selling miraculous start selling?

Or is it possible that some of them chose to quit rather than adapt?

rothan117

No, keep us at 14 days

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

rothan117 wrote: »

My stuff is selling

...

if it has not sold in 4 to 6 days, I put something else up that will sell or reprice the item so it will sell.

Apparently your stuff is not selling because you admit you are replacing items that won't sell or reducing prices to try to get them to sell. So you are losing money on listing fees - as well as accepting a reduced price.

And you are doing this in a weekly cycle. So presumably you'd be happy with a 7 day limit?


A good 80% of my stuff sells within 4 days, so I am not relisting much. That which gets pulled and relisted, the price has dropped again and my price is longer competitive, so it is not going to sell regardless of how long I leave it up there. The market imposes reduced prices, it is not a matter of accepting them. You adapt or you don't sell in a deflationary situation like this.

Bithabus

If it doesn't sell in a few days then it's overpriced.

JiubLeRepenti

Yes, revert us to 30 days

Even when you put items on sale with a very decent price (even under TTC recommended prices), sometimes it won’t go after 15 days.

In the past it wasn’t uncommon for me to see items be sold after 20+ days so yes, I wish they could roll this back.