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This pushing people into PVP is WRONG
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Blood_again✭✭✭✭✭JimFord047 wrote: »(skipped the long list of advantages obtained)
I am now apparently quite an accomplished Bomber, got the Healer Achievements done, and have a couple of thousand Transmute crystal’s Stored away, though Im about out of space everywhere, new toon time I guess
But as I said, not my thing, but hope you all enjoyed the event! But its still Wrong to put people in the position of invading your world to Die
Well, as I can see, you've got a lot of items and experience, but you're still moaning
Honestly, I'm glad to read this long list.
You've got things you may not want at the moment, but you saved them, and you have some plans to use them. It is motivation to get back, when you may want more.
You've got knowledge of where to go and what to do to get the things you want. It is a goal, you have a chance to move towards it.
You've started noticing what happened around you, what killed you and how. Not much, but this is a way to improve yourself. So next time you'll prepare yourself better, and you will notice more.
I hope one day you'll catch yourself slightly enjoying the way you got some AP or TV for something you need.
It won't be Stokholm syndrome, just the learning curve 2 -
CrazyKitty✭✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »CrazyKitty wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »
I will never agree that PvP players are more skilled than those that PvE so let's just agree to disagree and leave it at that.
Agree or disagree it remains a fact that PvP is the most challenging test of player skill in ESO.
That is an opinion, not a fact. We don't hold the same opinion so let's just leave it at that.
It's a fact. PvP is the most challenging test of player skill in ESO.7 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »CrazyKitty wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »
I will never agree that PvP players are more skilled than those that PvE so let's just agree to disagree and leave it at that.
Agree or disagree it remains a fact that PvP is the most challenging test of player skill in ESO.
That is an opinion, not a fact. We don't hold the same opinion so let's just leave it at that.
It's a fact that countering and defeating thinking opponents in constantly changing situations on the fly requires more skill than using a set rotation against scripted AI (PvE). Regardless of anyone's opinion.
Edited by Jaraal on August 6, 2024 4:00PMRIP Bosmer Nation. 4/4/14 - 2/25/19.8 -
Smitch_59✭✭✭✭✭I'm glad that's over.
I only did one scouting mission per day, usually after spending several minutes finding a friendly map. Never went to IC, so I earned only 2 tickets per day.
I got caught and killed just once during the entire event. Most days I never saw an enemy player.
Honestly, the most difficult part of the event for me was finding campaigns with friendly maps. As always, for me MYM is largely just an annoyance.By Azura, by Azura, by Azura!0 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭CrazyKitty wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »CrazyKitty wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »
I will never agree that PvP players are more skilled than those that PvE so let's just agree to disagree and leave it at that.
Agree or disagree it remains a fact that PvP is the most challenging test of player skill in ESO.
That is an opinion, not a fact. We don't hold the same opinion so let's just leave it at that.
It's a fact. PvP is the most challenging test of player skill in ESO.
I am never going to agree with that so we need to agree to disagree and just let it go.PCNA2 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »CrazyKitty wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »
I will never agree that PvP players are more skilled than those that PvE so let's just agree to disagree and leave it at that.
Agree or disagree it remains a fact that PvP is the most challenging test of player skill in ESO.
That is an opinion, not a fact. We don't hold the same opinion so let's just leave it at that.
It's a fact that countering and defeating thinking opponents in constantly changing situations on the fly requires more skill than using a set rotation against scripted AI (PvE). Regardless of anyone's opinion.
Not more skill... just different skill sets.PCNA3 -
OsUfi✭✭✭✭✭
✭SilverBride wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »CrazyKitty wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »
I will never agree that PvP players are more skilled than those that PvE so let's just agree to disagree and leave it at that.
Agree or disagree it remains a fact that PvP is the most challenging test of player skill in ESO.
That is an opinion, not a fact. We don't hold the same opinion so let's just leave it at that.
It's a fact that countering and defeating thinking opponents in constantly changing situations on the fly requires more skill than using a set rotation against scripted AI (PvE). Regardless of anyone's opinion.
Not more skill... just different skill sets.
100% this. Can hold my own in PvP. Can barely scrape through a vet arena even at 1950 cp. Lack the PvE endurance for Archive. Hat's off to those "solo Scalecaller Peak" types out there. I barely have any DLC dungeon monster masks as is.3 -
Well, the first thing it requires is going in with the correct gear, which can mean compromising one's build.SilverBride wrote: »CrazyKitty wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »
I will never agree that PvP players are more skilled than those that PvE so let's just agree to disagree and leave it at that.
Agree or disagree it remains a fact that PvP is the most challenging test of player skill in ESO.
That is an opinion, not a fact. We don't hold the same opinion so let's just leave it at that.
It's a fact that countering and defeating thinking opponents in constantly changing situations on the fly requires more skill than using a set rotation against scripted AI (PvE). Regardless of anyone's opinion.
Second thing it requires is having the right skills slotted and morphed, which can mean compromising one's build.
Third thing it requires is having the correct CP slotted (or the right sets slotted if noCP), which can mean compromising one's build.
Then, maybe, fourth thing it requires is countering and defeating thinking opponents.
When an engagement is won on gear and stats alone, it is no harder than PVE, and I see very few people taking "good fights" these days. Usually they decline to hunt easier prey, or ball up/group up to make it as uneven as possible.
1 -
CrazyKitty✭✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »CrazyKitty wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »
I will never agree that PvP players are more skilled than those that PvE so let's just agree to disagree and leave it at that.
Agree or disagree it remains a fact that PvP is the most challenging test of player skill in ESO.
That is an opinion, not a fact. We don't hold the same opinion so let's just leave it at that.
It's a fact that countering and defeating thinking opponents in constantly changing situations on the fly requires more skill than using a set rotation against scripted AI (PvE). Regardless of anyone's opinion.
Not more skill... just different skill sets.
Assessing skill is a quantitative and measurable thing. It takes more skill sets to excel at PvP than any other aspect of ESO. (build, timing, reaction speed, anticipation, use of environmental elements, experience and so on) It takes far more skill to fight another person than it does a scripted encounter that is the same every time. The difference is roughly equivalent to the difference between training in the gym and getting into the ring and actually fighting another person.
This "debate" is not a matter of opinion. It's not a matter of agree or disagree. It's a matter of what can be measured and quantified like doing math. There is a right answer and a wrong answer. Opinions don't enter into the equation.
Edited by CrazyKitty on August 6, 2024 6:12PM9 -
FlopsyPrince✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I'm glad that's over.
I only did one scouting mission per day, usually after spending several minutes finding a friendly map. Never went to IC, so I earned only 2 tickets per day.
I got caught and killed just once during the entire event. Most days I never saw an enemy player.
Honestly, the most difficult part of the event for me was finding campaigns with friendly maps. As always, for me MYM is largely just an annoyance.
Which shows a big failure of the event. Note that you can mostly just stand on the platform in the IC Arena area and collect "freedoms" if others are active. (And no one nukes the platform to kill you while you try to grab the quest, which happened to me in the past day or so!)PC
PS4/PS50 -
FlopsyPrince✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭CrazyKitty wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »CrazyKitty wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »
I will never agree that PvP players are more skilled than those that PvE so let's just agree to disagree and leave it at that.
Agree or disagree it remains a fact that PvP is the most challenging test of player skill in ESO.
That is an opinion, not a fact. We don't hold the same opinion so let's just leave it at that.
It's a fact that countering and defeating thinking opponents in constantly changing situations on the fly requires more skill than using a set rotation against scripted AI (PvE). Regardless of anyone's opinion.
Not more skill... just different skill sets.
Assessing skill is a quantitative and measurable thing. It takes more skill sets to excel at PvP than any other aspect of ESO. (build, timing, reaction speed, anticipation, use of environmental elements, experience and so on) It takes far more skill to fight another person than it does a scripted encounter that is the same every time. The difference is roughly equivalent to the difference between training in the gym and getting into the ring and actually fighting another person.
This "debate" is not a matter of opinion. It's not a matter of agree or disagree. It's a matter of what can be measured and quantified like doing math. There is a right answer and a wrong answer. Opinions don't enter into the equation.
Anything takes "skill" by that definition.
PvP is just heavy on the twitch skills and ideal gearing.
It is REALLY ANNOYING that some cannot be killed, but still have powerful attacks. Attack vs. defense is supposed to be a challenge, but some in PvP have both. That harms PvP from those who might try it since it is not just "playing well" but obscure gearing, just for this part of the game. Poor balance here.
PC
PS4/PS50 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭FlopsyPrince wrote: »FlopsyPrince wrote: »
because it inspires players to give PvP a try. I know several players who might have never ventured into PvP land were it not for these events or PvE content that decided they really liked it. PvP is more reliant on players new to the content than PvE is and these events help maintain the population.
Being gank bait is not "trying PvP".
I just zoned into the arena and went to collect the quest on the platform only to die because someone (somehow) nuked the platform. Yeah, that really got me to try PvP, right?
Give other rewards, such as the Pelena's Boxes, to encourage PvP, as they do. Getting nuked before I even realized what was happening was certainly not something that makes me want to keep playing, however much you might have enjoyed being on the other end of that.
Twice now. How is this "fun? Except for the one being the twit on the ground? I couldn't shoot him, but he can nuke me! Gee, that is fun! Not!!!!
ZOS shares part of the blame for this, allowing attacks up when attacks can't go down in the same manner.
This is why I tell the PvP crowd to lay off the ambushes. Unfortunately most of the gankers are not experienced PvP'rs. The PvP crowd is out competing with other PvP types. You are getting hit for the most part by players that the rest of the year would be lucky to get a kill in. That is why they gank the events. There are a few exceptions.
You have for a very long time now posted about your disdain for PvP. That is fine it isn't for everybody. That doesn't change that these events help to sustain the PvP population by providing new players an incentive to try. Some of those players decide to stick around.
and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."2 -
EdjeSwift✭✭✭✭✭
✭This is why I tell the PvP crowd to lay off the ambushes. Unfortunately most of the gankers are not experienced PvP'rs. The PvP crowd is out competing with other PvP types. You are getting hit for the most part by players that the rest of the year would be lucky to get a kill in. That is why they gank the events. There are a few exceptions.
Can agree with this as my experience. Pre-MYM I was in IC getting story/dailies done for the Script Grind and I rarely ever got ganked or if I did get ganked, get ganked twice by the same player. I'd come back for my quest, they'd see me and leave me be, realizing I'm not there for PvP and not holding Tel Var.
As for the other point, when I would go into IC for my dailies and go about my business and people tried to gank me and I felt froggy and fought back, half the time I'd kill them and rack in the Tel Var, and I wasn't running my PvP build, just my basic Jabplar. Don't count MYM IC as normal IC or a reflection of actual IC denizens. Just like Cyrodiil, I can tell who are the "real PvPers" and who are just around for the event.Edited by EdjeSwift on August 6, 2024 7:34PMAntiquities Addict1 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭CrazyKitty wrote: »This "debate" is not a matter of opinion. It's not a matter of agree or disagree. It's a matter of what can be measured and quantified like doing math. There is a right answer and a wrong answer. Opinions don't enter into the equation.
We are never going to agree, so I am asking for the 3rd time to just agree to disagree and leave it at that.Edited by SilverBride on August 6, 2024 10:38PMPCNA0 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭CrazyKitty wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »CrazyKitty wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »
I will never agree that PvP players are more skilled than those that PvE so let's just agree to disagree and leave it at that.
Agree or disagree it remains a fact that PvP is the most challenging test of player skill in ESO.
That is an opinion, not a fact. We don't hold the same opinion so let's just leave it at that.
It's a fact that countering and defeating thinking opponents in constantly changing situations on the fly requires more skill than using a set rotation against scripted AI (PvE). Regardless of anyone's opinion.
Not more skill... just different skill sets.
Assessing skill is a quantitative and measurable thing. It takes more skill sets to excel at PvP than any other aspect of ESO. (build, timing, reaction speed, anticipation, use of environmental elements, experience and so on) It takes far more skill to fight another person than it does a scripted encounter that is the same every time. The difference is roughly equivalent to the difference between training in the gym and getting into the ring and actually fighting another person.
This "debate" is not a matter of opinion. It's not a matter of agree or disagree. It's a matter of what can be measured and quantified like doing math. There is a right answer and a wrong answer. Opinions don't enter into the equation.
If you judge a fish by how it can climb a tree you will decide the fish has no skill. If the PvP'rs are more skilled they should be able to consistently show up on the trials leader board. They do not. They don't have the same level of skills for trials that those on the leader board have.
Math can measure skills (sometimes) in one discipline with accuracy but math begins to fail when trying to compare unrelated disciplines. Put a top PvP'r against a top trial DPS on a target dummy and math would say the trial player has the most skill. Have them duel several times and math would tell you it is the PvP'r that has more skill.
If we are talking about trading then bank accounts would tell you who is the more skilled player. I don't know how math would work for housing but I can tell you there are people in the game with much better decorating skills than I have that I could probably take in a duel or on a target dummy. In their discipline (housing) they are the more skilled player.and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."6 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭CrazyKitty wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »CrazyKitty wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »
I will never agree that PvP players are more skilled than those that PvE so let's just agree to disagree and leave it at that.
Agree or disagree it remains a fact that PvP is the most challenging test of player skill in ESO.
That is an opinion, not a fact. We don't hold the same opinion so let's just leave it at that.
It's a fact that countering and defeating thinking opponents in constantly changing situations on the fly requires more skill than using a set rotation against scripted AI (PvE). Regardless of anyone's opinion.
Not more skill... just different skill sets.
Assessing skill is a quantitative and measurable thing. It takes more skill sets to excel at PvP than any other aspect of ESO. (build, timing, reaction speed, anticipation, use of environmental elements, experience and so on) It takes far more skill to fight another person than it does a scripted encounter that is the same every time. The difference is roughly equivalent to the difference between training in the gym and getting into the ring and actually fighting another person.
This "debate" is not a matter of opinion. It's not a matter of agree or disagree. It's a matter of what can be measured and quantified like doing math. There is a right answer and a wrong answer. Opinions don't enter into the equation.
If you judge a fish by how it can climb a tree you will decide the fish has no skill. If the PvP'rs are more skilled they should be able to consistently show up on the trials leader board. They do not. They don't have the same level of skills for trials that those on the leader board have.
Math can measure skills (sometimes) in one discipline with accuracy but math begins to fail when trying to compare unrelated disciplines. Put a top PvP'r against a top trial DPS on a target dummy and math would say the trial player has the most skill. Have them duel several times and math would tell you it is the PvP'r that has more skill.
If we are talking about trading then bank accounts would tell you who is the more skilled player. I don't know how math would work for housing but I can tell you there are people in the game with much better decorating skills than I have that I could probably take in a duel or on a target dummy. In their discipline (housing) they are the more skilled player.
Well said.
The actual fact of the matter is the majority of PvPers have to do some PvE for gear. The same is not true the other way around. So, it's not possible to easily quantity how much one influences the other by the number of people good at both. PvE players simply don't PvP often because there is no design incentive for them to do so. Meanwhile, PvP players are heavily incentivized to do so. So, naturally the group with more incentives to do both types of content is bigger.
They get experience and skill at doing PvE from learning how to do PvE. That honing their skill at PvE translates to success at PvE does not magically make PvP superior to everything else.
Another confounding factor in the skill argument is that top PvE builds are generally widely shared to all. Untrue of PvP builds. And the game specifically designs PvP gear to be better at PvE than the other way around.
So, in one corner we have a fighter with experience wearing equipment designed to enhance their performance. And on the other, we have a fighter who's got one hand tied behind their backs and no experience. And people want to use this bout as a sign that the enhanced player is more skilled than the novice.
It's ridiculous.
Claiming PvP is more skillful than PvE based on the fact that more PvPers can do okay in PvE than the other way around completely ignores the facts of the massive differences in the game of content experience and gear. PvP is passively given such a massive advantage in that regard that it's not worth serious consideration. If someone wants to proclaim their skill at defeating opponents with their hands tied behind their back in a boxing contest, that's on them. But the rest don't need to agree.Edited by spartaxoxo on August 6, 2024 11:00PM1 -
SurtalogicSoul ShrivenThis honestly are the best events of the year. The rest of it is useless go-dance-in-this-castle type quests. MYM was great fun and maybe it's worth looking into scrapping one of the many PvE events and give PvP a 3rd event in a year.2
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Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭CrazyKitty wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »CrazyKitty wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »
I will never agree that PvP players are more skilled than those that PvE so let's just agree to disagree and leave it at that.
Agree or disagree it remains a fact that PvP is the most challenging test of player skill in ESO.
That is an opinion, not a fact. We don't hold the same opinion so let's just leave it at that.
It's a fact that countering and defeating thinking opponents in constantly changing situations on the fly requires more skill than using a set rotation against scripted AI (PvE). Regardless of anyone's opinion.
Not more skill... just different skill sets.
Assessing skill is a quantitative and measurable thing. It takes more skill sets to excel at PvP than any other aspect of ESO. (build, timing, reaction speed, anticipation, use of environmental elements, experience and so on) It takes far more skill to fight another person than it does a scripted encounter that is the same every time. The difference is roughly equivalent to the difference between training in the gym and getting into the ring and actually fighting another person.
This "debate" is not a matter of opinion. It's not a matter of agree or disagree. It's a matter of what can be measured and quantified like doing math. There is a right answer and a wrong answer. Opinions don't enter into the equation.
If you judge a fish by how it can climb a tree you will decide the fish has no skill. If the PvP'rs are more skilled they should be able to consistently show up on the trials leader board. They do not. They don't have the same level of skills for trials that those on the leader board have.
And yet there are a lot more skilled PvPers at the top of the trials leader board than there are skilled trials folks at the top of the PvP leader boards.
Why is that, I wonder?
RIP Bosmer Nation. 4/4/14 - 2/25/19.1 -
reazea✭✭✭✭✭
✭CrazyKitty wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »CrazyKitty wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »
I will never agree that PvP players are more skilled than those that PvE so let's just agree to disagree and leave it at that.
Agree or disagree it remains a fact that PvP is the most challenging test of player skill in ESO.
That is an opinion, not a fact. We don't hold the same opinion so let's just leave it at that.
It's a fact that countering and defeating thinking opponents in constantly changing situations on the fly requires more skill than using a set rotation against scripted AI (PvE). Regardless of anyone's opinion.
Not more skill... just different skill sets.
Assessing skill is a quantitative and measurable thing. It takes more skill sets to excel at PvP than any other aspect of ESO. (build, timing, reaction speed, anticipation, use of environmental elements, experience and so on) It takes far more skill to fight another person than it does a scripted encounter that is the same every time. The difference is roughly equivalent to the difference between training in the gym and getting into the ring and actually fighting another person.
This "debate" is not a matter of opinion. It's not a matter of agree or disagree. It's a matter of what can be measured and quantified like doing math. There is a right answer and a wrong answer. Opinions don't enter into the equation.
If you judge a fish by how it can climb a tree you will decide the fish has no skill. If the PvP'rs are more skilled they should be able to consistently show up on the trials leader board. They do not. They don't have the same level of skills for trials that those on the leader board have.
And yet there are a lot more skilled PvPers at the top of the trials leader board than there are skilled trials folks at the top of the PvP leader boards.
Why is that, I wonder?
We're going to have to agree to disagree and just move on.
5 -
reazea✭✭✭✭✭
✭CrazyKitty wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »CrazyKitty wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »
I will never agree that PvP players are more skilled than those that PvE so let's just agree to disagree and leave it at that.
Agree or disagree it remains a fact that PvP is the most challenging test of player skill in ESO.
That is an opinion, not a fact. We don't hold the same opinion so let's just leave it at that.
It's a fact that countering and defeating thinking opponents in constantly changing situations on the fly requires more skill than using a set rotation against scripted AI (PvE). Regardless of anyone's opinion.
Not more skill... just different skill sets.
Assessing skill is a quantitative and measurable thing. It takes more skill sets to excel at PvP than any other aspect of ESO. (build, timing, reaction speed, anticipation, use of environmental elements, experience and so on) It takes far more skill to fight another person than it does a scripted encounter that is the same every time. The difference is roughly equivalent to the difference between training in the gym and getting into the ring and actually fighting another person.
This "debate" is not a matter of opinion. It's not a matter of agree or disagree. It's a matter of what can be measured and quantified like doing math. There is a right answer and a wrong answer. Opinions don't enter into the equation.
If you judge a fish by how it can climb a tree you will decide the fish has no skill. If the PvP'rs are more skilled they should be able to consistently show up on the trials leader board. They do not. They don't have the same level of skills for trials that those on the leader board have.
Math can measure skills (sometimes) in one discipline with accuracy but math begins to fail when trying to compare unrelated disciplines. Put a top PvP'r against a top trial DPS on a target dummy and math would say the trial player has the most skill. Have them duel several times and math would tell you it is the PvP'r that has more skill.
If we are talking about trading then bank accounts would tell you who is the more skilled player. I don't know how math would work for housing but I can tell you there are people in the game with much better decorating skills than I have that I could probably take in a duel or on a target dummy. In their discipline (housing) they are the more skilled player.
Except the bulk of the names you see at the top of the PvP leader boards are also regularly at the top of the trials and trifecta leader boards. It's simply not factual to assert otherwise.
Not everything we do in life or in game is a skill or requires skill.
Edited by reazea on August 7, 2024 2:23AM5 -
CrazyKitty wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »CrazyKitty wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »
I will never agree that PvP players are more skilled than those that PvE so let's just agree to disagree and leave it at that.
Agree or disagree it remains a fact that PvP is the most challenging test of player skill in ESO.
That is an opinion, not a fact. We don't hold the same opinion so let's just leave it at that.
It's a fact that countering and defeating thinking opponents in constantly changing situations on the fly requires more skill than using a set rotation against scripted AI (PvE). Regardless of anyone's opinion.
Not more skill... just different skill sets.
Assessing skill is a quantitative and measurable thing. It takes more skill sets to excel at PvP than any other aspect of ESO. (build, timing, reaction speed, anticipation, use of environmental elements, experience and so on) It takes far more skill to fight another person than it does a scripted encounter that is the same every time. The difference is roughly equivalent to the difference between training in the gym and getting into the ring and actually fighting another person.
This "debate" is not a matter of opinion. It's not a matter of agree or disagree. It's a matter of what can be measured and quantified like doing math. There is a right answer and a wrong answer. Opinions don't enter into the equation.
If you judge a fish by how it can climb a tree you will decide the fish has no skill. If the PvP'rs are more skilled they should be able to consistently show up on the trials leader board. They do not. They don't have the same level of skills for trials that those on the leader board have.
Math can measure skills (sometimes) in one discipline with accuracy but math begins to fail when trying to compare unrelated disciplines. Put a top PvP'r against a top trial DPS on a target dummy and math would say the trial player has the most skill. Have them duel several times and math would tell you it is the PvP'r that has more skill.
If we are talking about trading then bank accounts would tell you who is the more skilled player. I don't know how math would work for housing but I can tell you there are people in the game with much better decorating skills than I have that I could probably take in a duel or on a target dummy. In their discipline (housing) they are the more skilled player.
Except the bulk of the names you see at the top of the PvP leader boards are also regularly at the top of the trials and trifecta leader boards. It's simply not factual to assert otherwise.
Not everything we do in life or in game is a skill or requires skill.
People that play the game a lot play the game a lot, news at 11.
An "all-star ESO player" is probably the most skilled, followed by the top in their respective categories (best PVP, best PVE). And by the time you're in the All Stars level, it's all team play. The builds that make Cyrodiil ball groups able to farm players like they were delve critters is taking team play all the way to the level of gear.
The same *teams* make it to the top of the leaderboards for the same reason a basketball team might win the championship, even if the "best shooter in the league" or "best center in the league" are on other teams.1 -
Blood_again✭✭✭✭✭And yet there are a lot more skilled PvPers at the top of the trials leader board than there are skilled trials folks at the top of the PvP leader boards.
Independently of the main point of this discussion, I'm wondering how the player from the trials top is a "skilled PvPer who's top in PvE" but not the "top PvEer who's skilled in PvP". The opposite is interesting too.
I guess it mainly depends on which side of the fence the spectator stands on
Your discussion is very interesting to read. Please just don't miss the idea that some people are really avid in different aspects of the game at the same time. It would be a mistake to push them into one single category just to make it comfortable for someone's argument.
Also their existence itself is not so convenient for "those are different skills" adepts, sorry.
I just see one side trying to call them PvPers, while another one tries to ignore the fact they exist
Please don't start that "they love <name it> more"
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spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Blood_again wrote: »Also their existence itself is not so convenient for "those are different skills" adepts, sorry.
I just see one side trying to call them PvPers, while another one tries to ignore the fact they exist
Not one side said they do not exist. I stated that they got skilled at PvE by playing PvE.
It's easy to make this claim when one side is misrepresented.spartaxoxo wrote: »PvE players simply don't PvP often because there is no design incentive for them to do so. Meanwhile, PvP players are heavily incentivized to do so. So, naturally the group with more incentives to do both types of content is bigger.
They get experience and skill at doing PvE from learning how to do PvE. That honing their skill at PvE translates to success at PvE does not magically make PvP superior to everything else.
Edited by spartaxoxo on August 7, 2024 3:12AM1 -
Blood_again✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »It's easy to make this claim when one side is misrepresented.spartaxoxo wrote: »PvE players simply don't PvP often because there is no design incentive for them to do so. Meanwhile, PvP players are heavily incentivized to do so. So, naturally the group with more incentives to do both types of content is bigger.
They get experience and skill at doing PvE from learning how to do PvE. That honing their skill at PvE translates to success at PvE does not magically make PvP superior to everything else.
Don't you see the biased separation here?
You've just divided people by principle: "PvEers are those who barely play PvP." That way, people who both play PvE and PvP actively are PvPers by your criteria. This division is wrong.2 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Blood_again wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »It's easy to make this claim when one side is misrepresented.spartaxoxo wrote: »PvE players simply don't PvP often because there is no design incentive for them to do so. Meanwhile, PvP players are heavily incentivized to do so. So, naturally the group with more incentives to do both types of content is bigger.
They get experience and skill at doing PvE from learning how to do PvE. That honing their skill at PvE translates to success at PvE does not magically make PvP superior to everything else.
Don't you see the biased separation here?
You've just divided people by principle: "PvEers are those who barely play PvP." That way, people who both play PvE and PvP actively are PvPers by your criteria. This division is wrong.
PvE masters are very skilled at completing the most actions per minute (APM). This is necessary to complete scripted boss phases in the most efficient manner. Top PvPers are also very high APM, however their rotations vary based upon who they are fighting, how mobile the encounter is, what the differing surroundings are, who else is involved, and so forth.
If trial bosses suddenly became sentient and independent thinking, started summoning different adds in varying numbers, casting different spells, dividing groups into isolated clusters, going wherever they wanted to on the map, hiding behind rocks and buildings and what not.... who do you think will survive the longest? The experienced PvEers, or the experienced PvPers?
Edited by Jaraal on August 7, 2024 3:42AMRIP Bosmer Nation. 4/4/14 - 2/25/19.0 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Blood_again wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »It's easy to make this claim when one side is misrepresented.spartaxoxo wrote: »PvE players simply don't PvP often because there is no design incentive for them to do so. Meanwhile, PvP players are heavily incentivized to do so. So, naturally the group with more incentives to do both types of content is bigger.
They get experience and skill at doing PvE from learning how to do PvE. That honing their skill at PvE translates to success at PvE does not magically make PvP superior to everything else.
Don't you see the biased separation here?
You've just divided people by principle: "PvEers are those who barely play PvP." That way, people who both play PvE and PvP actively are PvPers by your criteria. This division is wrong.
The whole launch point of the discussion is the claim that people who primarily PvP are more skilled at the game than other groups due a lot of skills like reaction speed, non-static encounters, etc that translate over well. Their argument is that the skills needed transfer over so well that you get good at PvE by PvPing because it PvPing makes them good at PvE too.
I am saying such an argument ignores that many PvPers are also PvErs and got their skill in PvE by playing that game mode. And it also ignores the way gear influences these outcomes.
So no, I am making the opposite distinction.Edited by spartaxoxo on August 7, 2024 3:46AM0 -
katanagirl1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Glad you gave the PvP event a try. You made some solid accomplishments, too!
I only found one War Torte recipe myself.
I hope you at least had some fun while there. You were a real team player regardless.
EDIT: typo
Edited by katanagirl1 on August 7, 2024 4:58AMKhajiit Stamblade main
Dark Elf Magsorc
Redguard Stamina Dragonknight
Orc Stamplar PVP
Breton Magsorc PVP
Dark Elf Magden
Khajiit Stamblade
Khajiit Stamina Arcanist
PS5 NA0 -
Blood_again✭✭✭✭✭PvE masters are very skilled at completing the most actions per minute (APM). This is necessary to complete scripted boss phases in the most efficient manner. Top PvPers are also very high APM, however their rotations vary based upon who they are fighting, how mobile the encounter is, what the differing surroundings are, who else is involved, and so forth.
If trial bosses suddenly became sentient and independent thinking, started summoning different adds in varying numbers, casting different spells, dividing groups into isolated clusters, going wherever they wanted to on the map, hiding behind rocks and buildings and what not.... who do you think will survive the longest? The experienced PvEers, or the experienced PvPers?
Sure you've got me as your another opponent an run to fight
Ok. Then please get back to the questionBlood_again wrote: »How the player from the trials top is a "skilled PvPer who's top in PvE" but not the "top PvEer who's skilled in PvP"? The opposite is interesting too.
We're not on the BG. Spurting the opponent with new definitions and questions don't make the previous ones unimportant, yes? 0
