Can we get an answer from the Dev team for templar?

proteinexe · July 18

So the patch notes are out and yet again templar has been left in the dark.
Necromancer changes were.. interesting, but thank you ZoS for doing something about Necromancer. But Templar desperately needs some love.
For a long time now Templar users have been pleading for a change to jabs (clunky and there are better alternatives), Purifying light (far too little damage) and burning light (doesnt so much anymore).
Templar doesn't have a burst skill anymore, their core ability and ‘signature’ skill jabs hits like a wet pool noodle and the pressure just isnt there anymore.
Now that these patch notes are out it’s clear nothing will be done about templar for another 4 - 6 months (which is painful to even type). Similarly to how you addressed Necro, can you at least let us know if you actually think they’re in a good spot or if you plan to make changes? They’re by far the weakest class on the dd side of things. A Dev covering this issue would be great and i think a lot of us templars would be relieved to hear you hear us.
Thank you

Metafae · July 18

I used to main a Templar for many years, but then when Arcanist was released, it became my new main, and have since done almost everything with this new character.

At the time, it just felt like a play style closer to what I enjoyed, but looking back, having tried to play my Templar again, I hate it. It feels awful and clunky and just wrong, I can't put my finger on it, but it's not right and not fun.

As for what changes they did add recently to Templars, they acknowledged that there is a rise in Templar Tanks and added a rooting effect to the blazing spear shards, interesting choice to support Templar Tanks, considering that they have literally no class skills that self-heal scaling on Max Health.

It is my opinion that a class cannot be a good tank until they have access to a strong enough self-heal that scales on Max Health, it's the reason why DK's were the Tank class for so many years after launch.

It's the reason Necromancers quickly became great tanks after they were released, that scythe is just really good.

I don't have a templar tank, but I know someone who does, and they would be doing much better in this job with a skill that worked this way.

LannStone · July 18

Metafae wrote: »

I used to main a Templar for many years, but then when Arcanist was released, it became my new main, and have since done almost everything with this new character.

At the time, it just felt like a play style closer to what I enjoyed, but looking back, having tried to play my Templar again, I hate it. It feels awful and clunky and just wrong, I can't put my finger on it, but it's not right and not fun.

Exactly my experience, I thought I would mention.

Theist_VII · July 18

It’s not just as a DD that Templar is lacking, they’ve fallen behind in every area.

ZOS made a comment that Templar tanks were “beginning to enter the scene” yet they’re still nowhere to be seen at end-game.

Adding a root to the offensive morph of Spears did absolutely nothing to further that goal. We said it during the PTS, that the Immobilize was on the wrong morph and it still went live.

Which is Templar’s problem, all of their skills provide value in opposite directions.

Let’s look at the prime example Sun Shield, it’s a health based shield that scales horribly, and does damage. Why does our main defensive skill have a damage tradeoff, and more pointedly, why is it weaker as a result?

BloodyStigmata · July 18

Honestly if I could class change my main (Which was created day 1 when the game went live) I would do so. I loved the class so much as a DD and while they've never been particularly good tanks I was comfortable enough with the class as a whole that I was actually willing to tank on one, and I despise tanking with every fiber of my being.

But after jabs and burning light got gutted among other things, I fell out of love with it and am not comfortable doing any kind of content that isn't overland on it (And I've even slowed progress on doing that because I'm just not enjoying playing templar anymore). That really sucks, because there are now other classes I like way more, but my main is my everything character and if I'm going to do content at all it's always going to be on that character first.

The moment I get the chance to turn her into a DK I'm taking it.

xylena_lazarow · July 18

U44 notes: jabs damage nerfed 20%, beam damage buffed 20%

WTB old jabs animation 10k Crowns

proteinexe · July 18

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

U44 notes: jabs damage nerfed 20%, beam damage buffed 20%

WTB old jabs animation 10k Crowns

i would pay far more than 10k for old jabs.

Cast_El · July 19

Our community opened several topic on templar nefs, for jab and POL. Never get any answers or whatever communication from ZOS. Bring back the old jab , wouldn't be enough, specially now. Burning light need a buff too, et POL need to hit harder.
Scribing could have fixed templar but no : no good spammable for plar and no burst delayed ability.

Cast_El · July 19

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/615702/jab-puncturing-sweep-is-useless-in-pvp-because-of-snare-duration-nerf-damage-nerf#latest

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/612997/templar-is-still-dead-with-those-changes#latest

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/626554/u37-base-game-is-a-joke-for-templar-community#latest

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/635306/templar-do-you-feel-the-difference-with-pol-pl-changes-pvp-players#latest

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/651265/did-you-forget-templar-change#latest

You can find many more that's only the topics I opened...

At least the jesus beam bug will be fixed next patch :
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/660065/jesus-beam-not-working-with-this-patch#latest
I reported many more bug and they didn't fixed it yet, but that is another topic. Like merciless resolve bug,but they want everyone play NB it seems so.

Anyway, stop the fight they don't care about templar community.

Cast_El · July 19

Here some other topics without answers:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8063670#Comment_8063670

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8153375#Comment_8153375

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/619499/where-are-the-templar-jabs

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8069584#Comment_8069584

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/622704/rework-templar-jabs

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/631382/templar-jabs

....
I think 🤔 there is a EGO problem at this point. Anyone can make a mistake, they should at least say "we hear you, and we disagree, templar is great, POL and jabd don't need adjustment".

But ignore player and silence 🤐 is very bad, it feels like they made a mistake and don't assume consequences.

Anyway change for my main to magsorc since last patch. Tired to fight 2-3 times harder than other classes(except Necro) to win.

I loose hope 1 year ago. Every Monday patches note ever since : I don't expect good templar changes, sadly, I look at NB buff to adjust my build accordingly

notyuu · July 19

To break it down how templar has changed over the years

Tankplar Then
"My entire build is based on a gimmick that causes enemies to kill themselves due to thorns damage but outside of that I am kinda useless due to lacking necessary tanking tools"

Tankplar Now
"I am a very hard to kill blob of healing with gimmick tier access to barely any of the necessary tanking tools"

Healplar Then
"My passives are junk-ish but I provide a vast healing output that is unmatched by the other classes"

Healplar Now
"My passives are outdated but I provide a moderate healing output that is matched by the other classes, I however lack general utility built into my tool kit"

Magplar Then
"I have no mobility and limited defensive options along with strained sustain, but I also have a wide suit of utility on top of moderate damage output"

Magplar Now
"I have no mobility and limited defensive options along with strained sustain, but I also have a range of utility on top of moderate damage output along with a murder laser"

Stamplar Then
"I have no mobility and strained sustain, I also sacrificed all of my class utility, healing and defensive options in order to obtain a very high damage output"

Stamplar Now
"I have no mobility and strained sustain, I also sacrificed all of my class utility, healing and defensive options in order to obtain a moderate damage output"

So what templar specs need

Tankplar: access to general tank utilities such as pulls, stuns, sustain boosters, AoE immoblise
Healplar: Updated passives to allow for applying of buffs and other general utility to make them more desirable as healers for group content
Magplar: It's "fine"
Stamplar: Some sort of identity that isn't just "objectively inferior version of magplar"

BXR_Lonestar · July 19

Metafae wrote: »

I used to main a Templar for many years, but then when Arcanist was released, it became my new main, and have since done almost everything with this new character.

At the time, it just felt like a play style closer to what I enjoyed, but looking back, having tried to play my Templar again, I hate it. It feels awful and clunky and just wrong, I can't put my finger on it, but it's not right and not fun.

As for what changes they did add recently to Templars, they acknowledged that there is a rise in Templar Tanks and added a rooting effect to the blazing spear shards, interesting choice to support Templar Tanks, considering that they have literally no class skills that self-heal scaling on Max Health.

It is my opinion that a class cannot be a good tank until they have access to a strong enough self-heal that scales on Max Health, it's the reason why DK's were the Tank class for so many years after launch.

It's the reason Necromancers quickly became great tanks after they were released, that scythe is just really good.

I don't have a templar tank, but I know someone who does, and they would be doing much better in this job with a skill that worked this way.

I have a stamplar I used to play all the time in PVP, and now I barely play him. I can tell you exactly what made it feel "clunky" and "off." It was the nerf to jabs (and maybe nerfs to Malacath's band) and the change in Jabs animation.

Before the nerfs referenced above, I was able to proc power of the light, then knock them down with charge/javeline and burst them down with jabs - no ult needed unless they were a tanky character. If you try that now, you're not likely to get people down below half health. What I see as the stamplar's primary attack combo hits like a wet noodle, and it's forced me to try to find other decent combos, which have been problematic for other various reasons. The ONLY way I have found to play my stamplar effectively thus far is running around spamming Radiant oppression - which everyone also hates (almost as if people hate getting killed in PVP - a mode all about killing eachother.....odd).

IMO, they just need to undo the animation change and nerf to jabs, and then if that doesn't boost the templar enough, then they can start buffing more abilities from there.

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe · July 20

Keep these threads alive. We Templar mains deserve better.

wrrn519_ESO · July 20

I love my templar healer but he has gone the way of the dodo, not because of lack of play or power just other classes bring more utility to the healing class than the templar unfortunately, especially in endgame. Wish they would fix, crosses fingers they would, won't hold my breath.

Pevey · July 20

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

U44 notes: jabs damage nerfed 20%, beam damage buffed 20%

WTB old jabs animation 10k Crowns

It would be funny/sad if the old animation showed up a skill skin sold in the crown store or in crates.

The main problem with the new animation is the same as for the new rapid strikes. There is nothing rapid about it. Jabs looks like you are waving your spear at someone, and rapid strikes looks like you are swimming. They are the worst skill animations in the game, by far.

In martial arts, all of the movements are very fast and sharp. There is a scientific reason behind this. Slow movements do little damage. In physics terms, force equals mass times velocity squared. The quickness of the movement is exponentially more important than the mass behind it.

Waving a spear around and swimming with knives in hand just makes your character look silly, not like your character is powerful.

shadyjane62 · July 20

The day I lost jabs, was the day I really stopped caring about ESO.

Just waiting for the next game.

huskandhunger · July 20

I would like the old animation to be purchaseable, I'll pay 20k crowns for it. I also would like an entire pass through on all Templar abilities and passives to make them more cohesive and exciting from a developer that cares and has a vision for Templar. Currently Templar has many redundant passives and functions e.g 2 stuns in one skill line, Sunfire does nothing , a glob of energy, skill line passives outdated, sun shield outdated--the entire 3 Templar skill lines drastically need a rework.

Wildberryjack · July 20

At the least revert Jab. The way it was originally was so much better! Right now it plain sucks both in execution and animation.

huskandhunger · July 20

Abilities that were exciting when I first started as a Templar in beginning the game were how Ritual of Retribution both healed me and damaged enemies, Radial Sweep (the one now called Everlasting Sweep) both gave me a 15% unique mitigation morph that got stronger if I was outnumbered and also did damage, Templar didn't have to huddle/turtle so much like now, but it could fight and still have healing and defense backing it up.

Carry on this vision, make both versions of Biting Jabs have a heal so we can finally have a stamina heal baked in and both give major brutality etc.

Joy_Division · July 20

proteinexe wrote: »

So the patch notes are out and yet again templar has been left in the dark.
Necromancer changes were.. interesting, but thank you ZoS for doing something about Necromancer. But Templar desperately needs some love.
For a long time now Templar users have been pleading for a change to jabs (clunky and there are better alternatives), Purifying light (far too little damage) and burning light (doesnt so much anymore).
Templar doesn't have a burst skill anymore, their core ability and ‘signature’ skill jabs hits like a wet pool noodle and the pressure just isnt there anymore.
Now that these patch notes are out it’s clear nothing will be done about templar for another 4 - 6 months (which is painful to even type). Similarly to how you addressed Necro, can you at least let us know if you actually think they’re in a good spot or if you plan to make changes? They’re by far the weakest class on the dd side of things. A Dev covering this issue would be great and i think a lot of us templars would be relieved to hear you hear us.
Thank you

Just my humble opinion, but because ESO's players have become so desperate and are willing to applaud and thank ZoS for some minor alterations once a year, there isn't any reason or urgency for the developers to act on these requests.

In every RPG I ever played, I always tried the Necro. What do I get an ESO, just one little skeleton archer dude and an overly complicated self-destructing thing that just gives me some random percentage buffs? Not exactly fulfilling the archetype fantasy here. A weak Scythe attack, a boring spammable, tether skills that just add restrictive conditions to do what other classes can always do, an overly complicated stun, none of this is interesting or effective. Class has been D tier in PvP for a long time, and ZOS's solution is to add some named buffs on awkward skills they weren't using in the first place or sourced through better skills like vigor or scribing. The only impactful change that made was to Intensive Mender. And for this, multiple threads on the PTS thanking ZOS. Standards have dropped through the floor. ZOS knows they can mail it in so of course they are going to do so.

proteinexe · July 20

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe wrote: »

Keep these threads alive. We Templar mains deserve better.

This is exactly it. What i’m most surprised about is people on the forums love to play devils advocate.. except hardly anyone on this forum thread is doing that. Almost everyone is giving their examples of how templar as a class is failing or explaining why they stopped playing templar. The fact there’s very little ‘against’ arguments on this forum threads ON the forum where most people love to debate (argue) says a lot.

proteinexe · July 20

Wildberryjack wrote: »

At the least revert Jab. The way it was originally was so much better! Right now it plain sucks both in execution and animation.

Honestly this. I wish ZoS would sometimes just admit it wasn't the right thing to do and revert it. I think i’d have so much more respect if they realised the change to jags was unnecessary and wholeheartedly disliked by the community.

It genuinely ruined part of templars class identity. Imagine templars not using jabs and using other spammables.

Rkindaleft · July 21

Just came here because the other active thread on this topic just got closed.

Considering ZOS spend more time closing threads and/or moving them to dead parts of the forum, don't keep your hopes up for a response.

I agree that the jabs change was the worst thing they've ever done to this class. There's also some sort of desync going on with jabs at the moment as well, it happens multiple times a trial when I'm jabbing and the character ends up getting stuck in a sort of heavy attack animation unless you break free or roll dodge to stop it.

Aurielle · July 21

proteinexe wrote: »

Wildberryjack wrote: »

At the least revert Jab. The way it was originally was so much better! Right now it plain sucks both in execution and animation.

Honestly this. I wish ZoS would sometimes just admit it wasn't the right thing to do and revert it. I think i’d have so much more respect if they realised the change to jags was unnecessary and wholeheartedly disliked by the community.

It genuinely ruined part of templars class identity. Imagine templars not using jabs and using other spammables.

I don’t really care about the animation one way or another (though I do wish it would get reverted for the benefit of those of you who hate the new one). I used to main a Stamplar in Cyrodiil, but have switched to Magplar since Gold Road and dropped jabs.

The main reason why I don’t use jabs anymore is less because of its current weakness and more because we’re still in a tanky ranged meta, and scribing has finally offered us a ranged spammable with Major Sorcery. I mean, I can do various things to slightly buff the damage of jabs so it doesn’t hit like a wet noodle, but being in melee range on a class as slow and clunky as Templar just feels masochistic. Jabs would have to be borderline OP for the risk to be worth the reward. So fixing jabs would be only one part of the overall solution.

I’d love to go back to using jabs and playing in melee range, because as you say, it’s part of our class identity.

proteinexe · July 21

Aurielle wrote: »

proteinexe wrote: »

Wildberryjack wrote: »

At the least revert Jab. The way it was originally was so much better! Right now it plain sucks both in execution and animation.

Honestly this. I wish ZoS would sometimes just admit it wasn't the right thing to do and revert it. I think i’d have so much more respect if they realised the change to jags was unnecessary and wholeheartedly disliked by the community.

It genuinely ruined part of templars class identity. Imagine templars not using jabs and using other spammables.

I don’t really care about the animation one way or another (though I do wish it would get reverted for the benefit of those of you who hate the new one). I used to main a Stamplar in Cyrodiil, but have switched to Magplar since Gold Road and dropped jabs.

The main reason why I don’t use jabs anymore is less because of its current weakness and more because we’re still in a tanky ranged meta, and scribing has finally offered us a ranged spammable with Major Sorcery. I mean, I can do various things to slightly buff the damage of jabs so it doesn’t hit like a wet noodle, but being in melee range on a class as slow and clunky as Templar just feels masochistic. Jabs would have to be borderline OP for the risk to be worth the reward. So fixing jabs would be only one part of the overall solution.

I’d love to go back to using jabs and playing in melee range, because as you say, it’s part of our class identity.

For me it’s not the animation, it’s how many times it hits. With 4 hits it used to work so well with Mech acuity, draugkin and sets that relied on ‘hit once every .5 seconds’ and the likes.

proteinexe · July 21

I thought I might expand on the points covered as ZoS are taking note of this thread and I want to see if people agree.

Jabs

Jabs need to be reverted back to either 4 hits per use or increase the damage. As stated above by @Aurielle in the current meta, jabs is a skill which puts you at a detrement. There needs to be more reward for a channel skill which makes you vulnerable. That does not mean add shields, or any sort of defence added to the skill. We as the players can work out how to use our defences to best make jabs work, however we need it to do more damage. Flat out, more damage. Not a buff attached or a snare effect (already has). Jabs is there now on a templar to proc something. In a DD rotation it’s there for proc’s or filler, in PvP if you use jabs it means either your entire build revolves around jabs or.. or you’re using a different spammable sadly. To make jabs viable people are running rele, deadly, insanely high damage setups and only then do they break even with risk to reward.
I’d like to see either a 4 hit per use return to jabs, more damage (perhaps incrementally?) per use or maybe a condition like if the first two jabs land then the last jab has an increased 50% damage. At least then you’re not just flat buffing it.
The last one mentioned would work well as an enemy could roll dodge after the first one or two jabs to avoid the increased damage of the third yadayada. But something, PLEASE.

Purifying light/power or the light

So i feel a tad like a broken record here as I’ve mentioned it on the forums and in multiple discords. Purifying light/power or the light Is not viable ‘burst’ damage understandably it got nerfed. After blackwood (i couldnt tell you the patch), you could make this skill hit someone for 10k - 15k which is a lot. Now.. i’m not dragging nb under the bus here but eherm merciless? Hitting for sometimes 20k? ANYWAYS templar.. yes, it got a nerf, but the nerf made this skill redundant. On a full damage build with a crit and 8k spell damage on a dummy this will hit for 25k? Bow procs casually hit for 45k.. alas, so, my point;
Every class has their burst, whether it be AoE or single target. Templar has backlash. Backlash is single target burst ability which in my opinion has the hardest criteria to reach in the game to receive it’s burst. If you get cc’d in that 6 second window then your burst is over. And if you arnt cc’d then the result is still a low burst outcome, maybe 5k in PvP? A successful crit dizzy swing hit’s for more..
templars are a pressure class but pressure is not king in PvP, burst is.
Again, my solution is either to increase the coppy’d damage %, increase the cap for damage OR increase the base damage of the skill, OR.. make it oblivion damage. But ultimately for this skill there is no work around, the damage bluntly need’s to be higher.

Burning light

Similar to other damage passives from other classes, this skill needs to mirror the damage. Burning light used to be a lot stronger. It’s what allowed templars to be a great melee range pressure class. They could jab and do great damage due to the 4 hits with jab mixed with burning light. Templar is a great beginner class. It was what i started with, it’s what I still use for PvE because i’m NOT a PvE’er really. I love doing the dungeons and love doing trials because you, ZoS, put so much effort into the dungeons nowdays and so havaing an easy to run jabplar was increadible. Now i have a build which relies on anything but jabs and i hate it.. but it’s my main.
I wont lie, i dont really have a solution for burning light, if anyone else does that would be great, but currently i’m at a loss.

I hope this is better than my initial thread post for more information as to what we can hear from the devs and the areas that need cleaning up.
Again, please let us know ZoS. I think we’re all (templar mains) eagerly waiting any acknowledgement on the subject. Dont let templar fester like necro did.. it’s getting close.

JustLovely · July 21

shadyjane62 wrote: »

The day I lost jabs, was the day I really stopped caring about ESO.

Just waiting for the next game.

U35 was the last straw for me too. As soon as something else with decent PvP comes out I'll be there, not here. Haven't subbed since U35 either, nor have I purchased the new chapter.

Bluestin · July 21

Jabs/Sweeps/Purifying Light/Power of the Light/Burning Light have all been pretty dead since update 35; I've tried forcing the old melee magicka Templar build and it more often than not just results in stalemate fights.

It's all just Javelin/Meteor/Radiant Execute or some sort of ranged burst into Radiant Execute (a build I still refuse to play). The ranged meta Templar we have now is what I always avoided playing because I prefer melee gameplay in general, but the melee side of Templar has been killed off in a series of changes from u35 onward.

proteinexe · July 22

Bluestin wrote: »

Jabs/Sweeps/Purifying Light/Power of the Light/Burning Light have all been pretty dead since update 35; I've tried forcing the old melee magicka Templar build and it more often than not just results in stalemate fights.

It's all just Javelin/Meteor/Radiant Execute or some sort of ranged burst into Radiant Execute (a build I still refuse to play). The ranged meta Templar we have now is what I always avoided playing because I prefer melee gameplay in general, but the melee side of Templar has been killed off in a series of changes from u35 onward.

Another great example. Rangedplar being played over melee plar because jabs is so bad..
another good example is look at Gnozo. Great EU player and makes builds. Neither of his Templar builds for the last (close to a year now) have contained jabs. One is dizzyplar and the other is rangedplar.

MEBengalsFan2001 · July 22

Problem I see is that jabs is a channel ability and only does 200 base damage more than a skill like concealed weapon. The difference is that by the time jabs animations finish a NB is able to do concealed weapon, light attacks and another skill. This is a significant damage advantage that most classes have over a Templar when the skill is instant. A class like Warden with a delayed skill like scorch is able to add a skill like dizzy swing and get both to hit a target along with a light in the mix allowing for higher damage.

As for backlash its damage is just horrible even in pve, but that skill is our highest hitting skill that is not beam.

The lone time where Templar really shine is when the enemy health drops to 25% but it’s still not as deadly as it should be in pvp with vampire having the undeath passive. Even 10% dmg reduction that can stack with major and minor protection will still make it hard to beam some players to death.

I am wondering over a course of 3 minutes how burning light damage would compare to instant crystal frag damage. I am betting crystal frag damage is 2-3x greater.

Sleep724 · July 22

When was the last time a dev commented on the inadequacies of a class?? Communication from Zos regarding classes has always been poor. And if they do plan to make changes, it takes years.

Once patch notes are out and specifically about class changes, there are very few changes that are ever done based on player feedback on the pts.