Please stop putting mythic leads in Trials.

Veinblood1965

I normally don't have any complaints with where Mythic leads are acquired, some of them are meant to be hard to obtain. The one thing that I do have an issue with is putting them in trials. The Rourken Steamguards from Gold Road one lead is in the Halls of Fabrication. The problem I have is that unless you are ALREADY in a guild that runs trials on a regular basis just trying to get people together to run it is almost impossible.

Nobody wants to join a group with an inexperienced leader. That leaves you with looking in the group finder and hoping someone is forming a group, or trying to get friends some of which know the trial to join one or just waiting around in Craglorn hoping someone is looking for extra people. It's been rare for me to see anyone LF someone to join a HOF group in any of my guilds or in zone chat so basically I'll be lucky to get even a chance to get the lead.

Elsonso

Yes, I think this was a poorly thought out decision. They tied both a mythic and the Savior of West Weald achievement to a trial.

Dragonnord

Veinblood1965 wrote: »

The problem I have is that unless you are ALREADY in a guild that runs trials on a regular basis just trying to get people together to run it is almost impossible.

Not really. I got the leads by just using the trials finder tool and it was really easy.

You don't need a high trained leader nor skilled group for normal runs, and leads come from normal runs too.

Groups for trials are constantly being created there, both for normal and veteran versions of all trials.

Also in Craglorn people are constantly asking for all rolls for trials.

And I'm fine with leads in trials, arenas and that type of content, as not everything in the game has to come from picking up flowers and killing wolves and mudcrabs in overland.
 

Araneae6537

While I disagree with making mythics a prerequisite for the zone achievements — they should be their own reward and not gate anything else — I’m fine with mythics in trials so long as the droprate is decent, and anecdotally, it seems to be.

Much better in a trial than behind the double RNG of treasure chests!

Vynera

I see nHoF groups daily in the group finder, just did a run ~2 hours ago with randoms on normal.

Was done in 20 minutes, average CP was around 900.
Everyone did average DPS, around 30-50k in boss fights except two DDs with 90-100k. Was more than enough DPS to just skip through every mechanic.

It is just normal, it is an old trail and almost everything can be skipped. As long as you dont go in naked you should be able to reach the end boss by pressing random buttons and aiming towards the boss.

For normal you don't need meta setups, 115k+ parses, group/voice chat, guilds, min-maxed group setup or whatever.

Dragonnord

Vynera wrote: »

I see nHoF groups daily in the group finder, just did a run ~2 hours ago with randoms on normal.

Was done in 20 minutes, average CP was around 900.
Everyone did average DPS, around 30-50k in boss fights except two DDs with 90-100k. Was more than enough DPS to just skip through every mechanic.

It is just normal, it is an old trail and almost everything can be skipped. As long as you dont go in naked you should be able to reach the end boss by pressing random buttons and aiming towards the boss.

For normal you don't need meta setups, 115k+ parses, group/voice chat, guilds, min-maxed group setup or whatever.

Exactly this comment above.

This thread is misleading towards what the reality is.

Getting the nHoF lead is super easy, more even because ZOS put the drop chance for the lead at almost 100% (or directly 100%, as in my run all 12 players got it).
 

Veinblood1965

I may be incorrect then. My experience is farming nodes in Carglorn for an hour here and an hour there and asking in zone chat and /or waiting for someone who needs extra people in zone chat for HoF I have come up with a total of zero. I'll keep trying. It may also be that I'm just not a trial person so there are other ways other than that.

Elsonso

ZOS should not be gating wide achievements behind trial runs.

Dragonnord

Elsonso wrote: »

ZOS should not be gating wide achievements behind trial runs.

I hate easy overland content.

ZOS should not be gating wide achievements behind overland content.
 

DenverRalphy

Elsonso wrote: »

ZOS should not be gating wide achievements behind trial runs.

Why not? The issue isn't isn't whether it's hard to do. It's a question of whether a player wants to do it. Don't want to? Then don't. But that's on the player, not Zos.

sarahthes

Veinblood1965 wrote: »

I may be incorrect then. My experience is farming nodes in Carglorn for an hour here and an hour there and asking in zone chat and /or waiting for someone who needs extra people in zone chat for HoF I have come up with a total of zero. I'll keep trying. It may also be that I'm just not a trial person so there are other ways other than that.

Why aren't you using group finder?

Veinblood1965

sarahthes wrote: »

Veinblood1965 wrote: »

I may be incorrect then. My experience is farming nodes in Carglorn for an hour here and an hour there and asking in zone chat and /or waiting for someone who needs extra people in zone chat for HoF I have come up with a total of zero. I'll keep trying. It may also be that I'm just not a trial person so there are other ways other than that.

Why aren't you using group finder?

I have looked in group finder every single day since GR went live on PS4/5 NA server last Tuesday and not one single group started. Plenty for the new zone trial and a few others but not HoF. I didn't want to start one as I know nothing about the trial other than what i read up on. I wouldn't want to get the group started then I'm like "well I know nothing about the trial does anyone here know anything?".

Hence my entire reason for the post. Certain trials are just not commonly ran. Even with the lead in this one it still doesn't appear to be ran much.

DenverRalphy

Veinblood1965 wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

Veinblood1965 wrote: »

I may be incorrect then. My experience is farming nodes in Carglorn for an hour here and an hour there and asking in zone chat and /or waiting for someone who needs extra people in zone chat for HoF I have come up with a total of zero. I'll keep trying. It may also be that I'm just not a trial person so there are other ways other than that.

Why aren't you using group finder?

I have looked in group finder every single day since GR went live on PS4/5 NA server last Tuesday and not one single group started. Plenty for the new zone trial and a few others but not HoF. I didn't want to start one as I know nothing about the trial other than what i read up on. I wouldn't want to get the group started then I'm like "well I know nothing about the trial does anyone here know anything?".

Hence my entire reason for the post. Certain trials are just not commonly ran. Even with the lead in this one it still doesn't appear to be ran much.

PSNA As of 30 seconds ago...

Veinblood1965

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Veinblood1965 wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

Veinblood1965 wrote: »

I may be incorrect then. My experience is farming nodes in Carglorn for an hour here and an hour there and asking in zone chat and /or waiting for someone who needs extra people in zone chat for HoF I have come up with a total of zero. I'll keep trying. It may also be that I'm just not a trial person so there are other ways other than that.

Why aren't you using group finder?

I have looked in group finder every single day since GR went live on PS4/5 NA server last Tuesday and not one single group started. Plenty for the new zone trial and a few others but not HoF. I didn't want to start one as I know nothing about the trial other than what i read up on. I wouldn't want to get the group started then I'm like "well I know nothing about the trial does anyone here know anything?".

Hence my entire reason for the post. Certain trials are just not commonly ran. Even with the lead in this one it still doesn't appear to be ran much.

PSNA As of 30 seconds ago...

Of course it happens when I'm at work. Guess I'll keep trying.

code65536

Unlike the Sunspire lead, the HoF lead has a guaranteed drop chance (regardless of difficulty) if you've never gotten it before. (From what I've heard, though, that guarantee goes away if you're chasing additional leads for codex.)

And normal is pretty puggable via Group Finder.

(That said, vet HoF is one of the best trials ever, and people really should give vet a whirl.)

Elsonso

.

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

ZOS should not be gating wide achievements behind trial runs.

Why not? The issue isn't isn't whether it's hard to do. It's a question of whether a player wants to do it. Don't want to? Then don't. But that's on the player, not Zos.

Is it on the player, though?

How many Mythic leads are out there in Trials? As far as I know, there are two. Feel free to correct me if I missed one.

Sunspire holds a lead required for the High Isle Antiquity Chase. That achievement is not required for the Savior of High Isle achievement.

Halls of Fabrication holds a lead required for the Gold Road Antiquity Chase. That achievement is required for Savior of West Weald.

ZOS notched it up for Gold Road. Necrom included the Antiquities achievement in the Savior achievement. It did not require a trial, but did require group dungeons. Now it requires a trial. They raised the bar. I don't see that this is on the player.

Aside: the Necrom antiquities requirement to have ESO Plus or dungeon DLCs was also an ... interesting ... decision.

(Edit: grammar )

sarahthes

Maybe in 2025 you'll have to complete the zone trial to get Savior of (Zone).

Araneae6537

sarahthes wrote: »

Maybe in 2025 you'll have to complete the zone trial to get Savior of (Zone).

That would make more sense than having to find the antiquities (nothing against antiquities, I just don’t feel it’s right or fitting to have finding them be a requirement for the Savior of Zone achievement and reward).

Desiato

Veinblood1965 wrote: »

The problem I have is that unless you are ALREADY in a guild that runs trials on a regular basis just trying to get people together to run it is almost impossible.

This simply isn't true. I look at the group finder every day and see regular nhof pugs that don't require previous experience. As long as the tank understands the final boss mechanics, it's np.

In general, organized trial guilds don't usually run normal trials. It's usually social guilds or random individuals that do.

Honestly, anyone can start a nhof pug during prime time and it will probably fill.

code65536

Elsonso wrote: »

ZOS notched it up for Gold Road. Necrom included the Antiquities achievement in the Savior achievement. It did not require a trial, but did require group dungeons. Now it requires a trial. They raised the bar. I don't see that this is on the player.

I disagree and think your assessment is both wrong and hyberbolic. For the simple fact that it's GUARANTEED. Even on normal. Okay, if you had to farm the trial countless times (ahem, Sunspire), that's pretty crappy, but that's not the case here.

For this lead, you have to run normal just once. And there's the new group finder feature that actually works pretty well. You guys are so hung up on this being in a trial that you are completely ignoring the fact that a no-fuss-no-RNG guaranteed drop more than makes up for that and makes this one of the easiest leads ever.

Araneae6537

code65536 wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

ZOS notched it up for Gold Road. Necrom included the Antiquities achievement in the Savior achievement. It did not require a trial, but did require group dungeons. Now it requires a trial. They raised the bar. I don't see that this is on the player.

I disagree and think your assessment is both wrong and hyberbolic. For the simple fact that it's GUARANTEED. Even on normal. Okay, if you had to farm the trial countless times (ahem, Sunspire), that's pretty crappy, but that's not the case here.

But you have to run normal just once. And there's the new group finder feature that actually works pretty well. You guys are so hung up on this being in a trial that you are completely ignoring the fact that a no-fuss-no-RNG guaranteed drop more than makes up for that and makes this one of the easiest leads ever.

Agreed! I’ll take this over the stupid treasure map leads any day! RNG is sooo demoralizing.

MasterSpatula

Final boss on a trial is fine by me. Now, putting leads on side bosses for dungeons where most people were way past the point of ever wanting to bother with the side bosses ever again? That one was bad.

Hapexamendios

Veinblood1965 wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

Veinblood1965 wrote: »

I may be incorrect then. My experience is farming nodes in Carglorn for an hour here and an hour there and asking in zone chat and /or waiting for someone who needs extra people in zone chat for HoF I have come up with a total of zero. I'll keep trying. It may also be that I'm just not a trial person so there are other ways other than that.

Why aren't you using group finder?

I have looked in group finder every single day since GR went live on PS4/5 NA server last Tuesday and not one single group started. Plenty for the new zone trial and a few others but not HoF. I didn't want to start one as I know nothing about the trial other than what i read up on. I wouldn't want to get the group started then I'm like "well I know nothing about the trial does anyone here know anything?".

Hence my entire reason for the post. Certain trials are just not commonly ran. Even with the lead in this one it still doesn't appear to be ran much.

I saw plenty over the weekend. I ran it 5 times to get the lead between Friday evening and Saturday.

opaj

I'm less bothered about Savior achievements being gated behind trials and more bothered by them requiring you to own other DLC that isn't related to a given zone. So you can't get Savior of the Gold Road or Savior of Necrom if you don't have access to Western Skyrim, then?

I mean, I have access to all of the DLC, but it's the principle of the thing.

Amottica

Dragonnord wrote: »

Veinblood1965 wrote: »

The problem I have is that unless you are ALREADY in a guild that runs trials on a regular basis just trying to get people together to run it is almost impossible.

Not really. I got the leads by just using the trials finder tool and it was really easy.

You don't need a high trained leader nor skilled group for normal runs, and leads come from normal runs too.

Groups for trials are constantly being created there, both for normal and veteran versions of all trials.

Also in Craglorn people are constantly asking for all rolls for trials.

And I'm fine with leads in trials, arenas and that type of content, as not everything in the game has to come from picking up flowers and killing wolves and mudcrabs in overland.
 

Very good point.

As long as it is easy like this, it is not a problem.

code65536 wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

ZOS notched it up for Gold Road. Necrom included the Antiquities achievement in the Savior achievement. It did not require a trial, but did require group dungeons. Now it requires a trial. They raised the bar. I don't see that this is on the player.

I disagree and think your assessment is both wrong and hyberbolic. For the simple fact that it's GUARANTEED. Even on normal. Okay, if you had to farm the trial countless times (ahem, Sunspire), that's pretty crappy, but that's not the case here.

For this lead, you have to run normal just once. And there's the new group finder feature that actually works pretty well. You guys are so hung up on this being in a trial that you are completely ignoring the fact that a no-fuss-no-RNG guaranteed drop more than makes up for that and makes this one of the easiest leads ever.

That is an even better point. This is so much better than the absurd RNG we have had with getting some leads.

Dragonnord

code65536 wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

ZOS notched it up for Gold Road. Necrom included the Antiquities achievement in the Savior achievement. It did not require a trial, but did require group dungeons. Now it requires a trial. They raised the bar. I don't see that this is on the player.

I disagree and think your assessment is both wrong and hyberbolic. For the simple fact that it's GUARANTEED. Even on normal. Okay, if you had to farm the trial countless times (ahem, Sunspire), that's pretty crappy, but that's not the case here.

For this lead, you have to run normal just once. And there's the new group finder feature that actually works pretty well. You guys are so hung up on this being in a trial that you are completely ignoring the fact that a no-fuss-no-RNG guaranteed drop more than makes up for that and makes this one of the easiest leads ever.

I agree with this code says.

Also @Elsonso, you say "Now it requires a trial. They raised the bar.". You see the word "trial" and already think of hell.

There is no book called "Bar of content difficulty, official release", so who says or set what is what in terms of difficulty? Why you think a trial is harder than other content?

I can assure you there are dungeons (hard modes mostly), arenas and so harder than many normal trials, and even than some veteran trials like AA or HRC.

A trial is just a dungeon, only that rooms are bigger and so more people fit in. The rest is all the same: adds, bosses and mechanics, than in mostly all normal trials (I'd even say all) you don't even need to respect nor do.
 

ESO_player123

Desiato wrote: »

opaj wrote: »

I'm less bothered about Savior achievements being gated behind trials and more bothered by them requiring you to own other DLC that isn't related to a given zone. So you can't get Savior of the Gold Road or Savior of Necrom if you don't have access to Western Skyrim, then?

I mean, I have access to all of the DLC, but it's the principle of the thing.

Halls of Fabrication is part of Morrowind which is free in the Crown Store.

I think they are referring to the fact that you need Western Skyrim for Antiquities.

Elsonso

Dragonnord wrote: »

Also @Elsonso, you say "Now it requires a trial. They raised the bar.". You see the word "trial" and already think of hell.
 

I am sure that a lot of people will do exactly that...

code65536

Elsonso wrote: »

I am sure that a lot of people will do exactly that...

That's understandable, because the precedent that was set by the Sunspire lead wasn't a great one.

Which is why it's important for people to set the record straight and let others know that this trial lead is different and better than the previous one. Instead of fanning the "omg, it's a trial" hysteria.

Dragonnord

Elsonso wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

Also @Elsonso, you say "Now it requires a trial. They raised the bar.". You see the word "trial" and already think of hell.
 

I am sure that a lot of people will do exactly that...

They are wrong.

Allowe me to repeat why I mentioned above:

There are dungeons (hard modes mostly), arenas and so harder than many normal trials, and even than some veteran trials like AA or HRC.

A trial is just a dungeon, only that rooms are bigger and so more people fit in. The rest is all the same: adds, bosses and mechanics, than in mostly all normal trials (I'd even say all) you don't even need to respect nor do.

There is no need to be afraid of trials, less even if running normal versions. Don't even mention if old trials.
 

Anifaas

I'm jealous of the console group finder. All PC-NA ever has are DSA and maybe the occasional cloudrest trials.