Tired of the Player Market System

Necrotech_Master

MoonPile wrote: »

It's kind of hilarious and insane that the entire PC economy essentially relies on one guy keeping a 3rd-party website going FOR FREE.

I don't even know how console players do it. At least we have a website to check, rather than load-screening between dozens of locations just in hopes of finding what we need. I wouldn't play without addons; so massively appreciate all the volunteer devs that make them.

while on PC i dont even use TTC much lol

i used to use it (before the website became basically nonfunctional with an adblocker, and no i refuse to disable that), mainly to search for items so i knew where to go to buy it, price wasnt as big of a deal to me in this case

that, to me, is the biggest improvement we could hope to see with the current system, some kind of merchant NPC that we could talk to and get a search type window, and the NPC would tell us where (if any) said item was being sold so we can go check it out instead of manually visiting and searching every individual guild trader

TaSheen

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

MoonPile wrote: »

It's kind of hilarious and insane that the entire PC economy essentially relies on one guy keeping a 3rd-party website going FOR FREE.

I don't even know how console players do it. At least we have a website to check, rather than load-screening between dozens of locations just in hopes of finding what we need. I wouldn't play without addons; so massively appreciate all the volunteer devs that make them.

while on PC i dont even use TTC much lol

i used to use it (before the website became basically nonfunctional with an adblocker, and no i refuse to disable that), mainly to search for items so i knew where to go to buy it, price wasnt as big of a deal to me in this case

that, to me, is the biggest improvement we could hope to see with the current system, some kind of merchant NPC that we could talk to and get a search type window, and the NPC would tell us where (if any) said item was being sold so we can go check it out instead of manually visiting and searching every individual guild trader

Yeah, the ad blocker is a major PITA. And I don't pay sites like that since I use them less than once a month on average. Which is why if it's not available in Vivec for what I am okay with paying, I do without.

kargen27

dk_dunkirk wrote: »

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

The secret guild trader mafia must have all gone on vacation for the summer on PC/NA at least, as prices have been falling and are continuing to fall rapidly on most items.

There are certainly players out there who try to manipulate the market (and would do so in an auction house system as well, believe it or not), and there are guilds that engage in bad practices. However, the large trading guilds I've been in are actually run by players who devote a significant amount of their time and their own gold to maintaining a good trader and a welcoming community for their members, with minimal requirements such as logging in and selling each week and/or making a small donation.

There are *many* guilds outside of the top trading locations that have no requirements at all other than logging in and occasionally selling something (or even JUST logging in weekly or bi-weekly).

Painting them all with one brush as evil criminal thugs is sad and really not even deserving of the time I put into this response.

Once again, I'm looking to complete a motif/style set, and someone has decided to buy literally every copy of the last piece I need, and mark it up by 10x. For a week now, every time I try to find one in TTC, and go to the vendor it's listed at, it's gone.

I'm looking for a Maelstrom's Sword style page. According to TTC, it should run between 80-120K. I saw ONE copy at ONE vendor for 1.2M, but it didn't even show up on TTC. It should have. I'm running the client, and I personally saw it! Something very strange is going on here with this item. The listings on TTC keep getting repeated. Somehow, it shows up at the same vendor within the past half hour, hour after hour, but it's never there.

TTC both enables me to find something I'm looking for, but also allows people to manipulate the market. It's a very love-hate relationship with me. It wouldn't be so bad, I guess, if this were a rare occurrence, but this has happened to me at last a dozen times, and it's just as frustrating and annoying every time.

You just outlined the problem with using TTC to find items especially items that are a bargain. What you see doesn't immediately go to TTC. After the item is posted someone running the TTC client has to view the item and I think then either log out or reloadui before the listing gets sent. In that time if the item were a bargain or extremely rare it could be gone before it ever gets listed.
Multiple listings can also happen if a number of players see the item but don't update to TTC at the same time. Basically if three people all see the item at the same time but log out thirty minutes apart they are all reporting that one item but TTC thinks it is three.

katanagirl1

Cheveyo wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

CrashTest wrote: »

No to a centralized auction house because it just makes it easier for the rich players to monopolize the market.

A better option would be to add the functionality of Tamriel Trade Centre to the game, so we don't have to use third party sites to find things for sale. We can just search from within the game and be done with it. This also helps console players who can't use addons.

I will ask again, can you provide some "proof" of the monopolization argument and way that does not happen now?

Having come from WoW, where a single addon can monitor the entire faction AH for the server... the system here is 10x better. People could monopolize the system by just standing in the auction house in Stormwind or Orgimmar and letting the addon run. They never had to leave, and it was better if they didn't. The addon gave them real time market information.

There is no real time market information here. The scope of information available to any one player is smaller. It is much harder to collect and more work to control. Do people do the best they can to monopolize? Of course, but it would be much easier for them if ZOS would simply tell them everything that was for sale in real time so they could buy it A.S.A.P.

A single add on can monitor the AH on a server, but what the add on cannot do is control other players. The addon cannot force players to sell at a certain price. Especially since the vast majority of the people playing WoW do NOT use that add on. This is why you constantly see the market watchers throwing tantrums on the forums about players constantly under cutting them.


On the other hand, the current system in ESO has created a small group of players who control all of the wealth in game. They decide the prices, they decide who gets to make money and who doesn't. They decide who gets to sell where and who does not. This is why they're so happy with the current system. There are people with millions upon millions of gold. They've got so much gold they could pay for dozens of new players' entire gear set, get them every home in game that's purchasable by gold, and set them up with a nice amount of spending money, while still having more money than god.

And then there's me, struggling to buy all of the those scribing tomes, because I don't have enough gold to pay 50k a dozen times. Hell, getting 100k from the monthly reward thing was a god send. It means I can buy 2 more. Of course, this also means all my characters are going to be sitting below 20k gold for quite a while going forward.

If we had the global auction house and didn't need to join a guild, I'd be able to make a bit of money and buy stuff I needed. I wouldn't be making millions because I don't have the patience or desire to play the market. But I'd make enough to get by, instead of basically living paycheck to paycheck in a video game. I delete the majority of the crafting writs I get because I cannot afford to buy the needed materials. Hell, I haven't even bothered opening a writ in so long I can't remember the last time I did one.

No one sets my prices. I’m in a donation based guild. I just pulled all the master writs I had that weren’t selling (because of the shorter listing time change I bet) and listed them for half of what they were before. I hate to practically give them away but they sold. I don’t have to worry about meeting any minimums. Still making my own gold.

valenwood_vegan

I have previously been the top weekly seller in one of the top ~2 guilds in sales on PC/NA. I did it by undercutting everyone else in the guild on the best-selling mats, constantly. I farmed them up myself so it was all profit for me. No one ever even attempted to "set my prices". The idea that this is a thing is absurd.

I don't really expect anyone who is convinced otherwise to take my word for it, but I had to say it, for whatever little it may be worth.

notyuu

MoonPile wrote: »

It's kind of hilarious and insane that the entire PC economy essentially relies on one guy keeping a 3rd-party website going FOR FREE.

I don't even know how console players do it. At least we have a website to check, rather than load-screening between dozens of locations just in hopes of finding what we need. I wouldn't play without addons; so massively appreciate all the volunteer devs that make them.

The website also covers console sales...

fizl101

notyuu wrote: »

MoonPile wrote: »

It's kind of hilarious and insane that the entire PC economy essentially relies on one guy keeping a 3rd-party website going FOR FREE.

I don't even know how console players do it. At least we have a website to check, rather than load-screening between dozens of locations just in hopes of finding what we need. I wouldn't play without addons; so massively appreciate all the volunteer devs that make them.

The website also covers console sales...

Technically it does, but people have to manually upload them, so they rarely bother. On PC the addons do that for you

Northwold

notyuu wrote: »

MoonPile wrote: »

It's kind of hilarious and insane that the entire PC economy essentially relies on one guy keeping a 3rd-party website going FOR FREE.

I don't even know how console players do it. At least we have a website to check, rather than load-screening between dozens of locations just in hopes of finding what we need. I wouldn't play without addons; so massively appreciate all the volunteer devs that make them.

The website also covers console sales...

To dispel this idea, just run a search on the console side of things. You'll soon see there's effectively nothing there.

BlueRaven

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

I have previously been the top weekly seller in one of the top ~2 guilds in sales on PC/NA. I did it by undercutting everyone else in the guild on the best-selling mats, constantly. I farmed them up myself so it was all profit for me. No one ever even attempted to "set my prices". The idea that this is a thing is absurd.

I don't really expect anyone who is convinced otherwise to take my word for it, but I had to say it, for whatever little it may be worth.

Yeah, there is a lot of conspiracy theories going on in this thread.

Nharimlur_Finor

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

I have previously been the top weekly seller in one of the top ~2 guilds in sales on PC/NA. I did it by undercutting everyone else in the guild on the best-selling mats, constantly. I farmed them up myself so it was all profit for me. No one ever even attempted to "set my prices". The idea that this is a thing is absurd.

I don't really expect anyone who is convinced otherwise to take my word for it, but I had to say it, for whatever little it may be worth.

You undercut your own guild members? I gave you an 'insightful' for that comment.
I can't be bothered to go back and see if you're one of the many complaining about relisting fees.

FWIW I purchase almost entirely from the guilds that I'm in.

I'm not tired of "the Player Market System" - I'm just tired of the players.

Amottica

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

freespirit wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

CrashTest wrote: »

No to a centralized auction house because it just makes it easier for the rich players to monopolize the market.

A better option would be to add the functionality of Tamriel Trade Centre to the game, so we don't have to use third party sites to find things for sale. We can just search from within the game and be done with it. This also helps console players who can't use addons.

I will ask again, can you provide some "proof" of the monopolization argument and way that does not happen now?

Attempts at monopolization certainly happen now BUT they are difficult to maintain for any length of time or require a group of players to work together to constantly buy any new listings at the "undesirable" lower price, as these listings are spread across the map.

If there was one centralised Auction House the ease of creating monopolies would soon become apparent, no travel needed, stand in one spot and buy all of whatever item you wish to hike in price!!

You still haven't proven that, just asserted it.

Monopolies exist now, especially on the PC. When TTC says the "normal" price for a companion item is 1/10th its price in any listings, that illustrates that the current system doesn't prevent the monopolies you note. It ends up making them at least as likely, if not more so, since good information is not possible to find with reasonable effort.

Prices tend to settle more to the norm in a central location, something that never gets addressed.

Monopolies do not exist and can not exist in ESO. Not with over 200 trade locations and no way to coordinate timely and up to date listings. It would take having someone at each location around the clock day in and day out with no sales allowed in chat. If you are willing to spend the time you can find the low priced items. That is what players that flip items do. They spend the time looking for bargains.
Just like people who devote a lot of time to trials can end up on the leader board people that dedicate a lot of time to trading can make a lot of gold. That doesn't stop any other player from doing the same with trials or trading.

You have not searched for many things apparently. Yes, monopolies are not totally hole free, but they exist and some play the game just to push up the price of key rarer items.

Sorry, but my own experience looking for things proves you wrong.

And no, I don't want to spend 10 hours to MAYBE find what I am looking for at a "normal" price.

Heck, I have found items posted at a ridiculously low price because the player missed a zero and bought it and flipped it. Players who enjoy finding such deals have only one location to search making it easier to so what is suggested in the post above. Heck, I have found common crafted items that sell well after an expansion at lower prices than normal for the time, purchased them, and sold them at what the market was actually selling and buying it for. It was perfectly legit, and everyone benefited.

It is so much easier with a single market.

Add in bots, which we know exist. The speed at which they can search is notably faster than what we can do, and it never sleeps. Sure, Zenimax can put an end to bots in our dreams.

So please, let us not make manipulating the market easier for players (and bots).

valenwood_vegan

LaintalAy wrote: »

You undercut your own guild members?
Correct. It's a free market and I'm free to list items for whatever I think they're worth. Many sellers do this all the time. Listings of mine are also undercut by others. It's simple really; reducing the price at which one is listing items, below the price of those that are lingering on the store, causes one's items to sell quickly. I always aim for the very low end of the TTC range to ensure a quick sale. If I'm listing something (excepting the occasional very rare and very high priced item) and it doesn't sell within ~48 hours, then in my opinion I have priced too high and it's going to get re-listed at a lower price. I'm quite sure I'm not the only one who uses this strategy.

Just to be clear though, I was not saying that I intentionally seek out other guildies' listings with the goal of undercutting them, if that's how it came across. I list my excess items and if others are pricing the same item too high (which they almost always are), then yes I'll list mine lower, as explained in more detail above.

Anyway, my point was that I've certainly never been in a guild that sets prices or demands that players list at the same prices as other players. Nor would I ever be in such a guild.

I gave you an 'insightful' for that comment.
Thank you! Very exciting to know that I'm on my way to my next forum badge.

I can't be bothered to go back and see if you're one of the many complaining about relisting fees.
Ok. Well my profile is not set to private and anyone is free to go crawling through my opinions on things, but how exactly would it be relevant here if I *had* complained about listing fees? I merely posted my above comment in response to various conspiracy theories being put forward about some secret guild trader cartel controlling everything, and the comment does not pertain to listing fees in any way.

If there was some specific comment that I made about listing fees in another thread, I would be more than happy to respond to questions or concerns about it.

FWIW I purchase almost entirely from the guilds that I'm in.
That's thoughtful and very helpful to the guild. I do this too if the items I want to purchase are listed in my trading guilds at anywhere near a reasonable price. I also make substantial donations to help support the trader bids.

I'm not tired of "the Player Market System" - I'm just tired of the players.
Bummer! It's not really clear if this part of the post is still directed at me, but I do regret if my comment was somehow upsetting, though I don't really understand how it would be. ESO is unfortunately filled with other players and they do get frustrating at times; I often deal with this by taking a break and solo questing or playing another game. Hope you have a better day.

Nharimlur_Finor

I can't be bothered to go back and see if you're one of the many complaining about relisting fees.

Ok. Well my profile is not set to private and anyone is free to go crawling through my opinions on things, but how exactly would it be relevant here if I *had* complained about listing fees? I merely posted my above comment in response to various conspiracy theories being put forward about some secret guild trader cartel controlling everything, and the comment does not pertain to listing fees in any way.

Well, if you decide to undercut other players, you may need to relist the items.
Complaining about the cost of relisting wouldn't be a good look in that context.

harvey07

you know they (Z) laugh around the office when they see stuff like this. they will not do a universal auction. ever. they will just dance around the subject or never even comment. because...they have decided THIS is how it is going to be.

i would prefer more guild 'slots'.....since this guild auction system is the status quo.

Northwold

harvey07 wrote: »

you know they (Z) laugh around the office when they see stuff like this. they will not do a universal auction. ever. they will just dance around the subject or never even comment. because...they have decided THIS is how it is going to be.

i would prefer more guild 'slots'.....since this guild auction system is the status quo.

You know, from all the changes that have been made over the years, Im really not sure that's true. From what I've seen, ZOS spend a fair bit of time considering how to make the game work from the perspective of different types of player who play ESO for almost *completely* different reasons, eg casual versus daily players, PvP vs PvE, and do actually put effort into finding ways to move the game on that accommodate the different play styles.

So, in the case of the trader system, yes, that does seem to be where they hitched their wagon and, yes, a full global auction house looks more unlikely than not. But the issue does keep coming up and attracting complaints (not just here but on much more populated fora like reddit, where it is often described as, for example, the worst trading system in any MMO) on several different grounds.

Compromises that improve the situation are possible and not inconceivable. For example, a per-region list of trader stock or, on the player gate issue, some sort of NPC guild trader equivalents for non-guild members with much higher taxes and steeper limits on trading.

They might happen, they might not. But there are a number of changes that could be made to improve things that would preserve the character of the existing system while addressing some of its worst aspects.

FlopsyPrince

Amottica wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

freespirit wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

CrashTest wrote: »

No to a centralized auction house because it just makes it easier for the rich players to monopolize the market.

A better option would be to add the functionality of Tamriel Trade Centre to the game, so we don't have to use third party sites to find things for sale. We can just search from within the game and be done with it. This also helps console players who can't use addons.

I will ask again, can you provide some "proof" of the monopolization argument and way that does not happen now?

Attempts at monopolization certainly happen now BUT they are difficult to maintain for any length of time or require a group of players to work together to constantly buy any new listings at the "undesirable" lower price, as these listings are spread across the map.

If there was one centralised Auction House the ease of creating monopolies would soon become apparent, no travel needed, stand in one spot and buy all of whatever item you wish to hike in price!!

You still haven't proven that, just asserted it.

Monopolies exist now, especially on the PC. When TTC says the "normal" price for a companion item is 1/10th its price in any listings, that illustrates that the current system doesn't prevent the monopolies you note. It ends up making them at least as likely, if not more so, since good information is not possible to find with reasonable effort.

Prices tend to settle more to the norm in a central location, something that never gets addressed.

Monopolies do not exist and can not exist in ESO. Not with over 200 trade locations and no way to coordinate timely and up to date listings. It would take having someone at each location around the clock day in and day out with no sales allowed in chat. If you are willing to spend the time you can find the low priced items. That is what players that flip items do. They spend the time looking for bargains.
Just like people who devote a lot of time to trials can end up on the leader board people that dedicate a lot of time to trading can make a lot of gold. That doesn't stop any other player from doing the same with trials or trading.

You have not searched for many things apparently. Yes, monopolies are not totally hole free, but they exist and some play the game just to push up the price of key rarer items.

Sorry, but my own experience looking for things proves you wrong.

And no, I don't want to spend 10 hours to MAYBE find what I am looking for at a "normal" price.

Heck, I have found items posted at a ridiculously low price because the player missed a zero and bought it and flipped it. Players who enjoy finding such deals have only one location to search making it easier to so what is suggested in the post above. Heck, I have found common crafted items that sell well after an expansion at lower prices than normal for the time, purchased them, and sold them at what the market was actually selling and buying it for. It was perfectly legit, and everyone benefited.

It is so much easier with a single market.

Add in bots, which we know exist. The speed at which they can search is notably faster than what we can do, and it never sleeps. Sure, Zenimax can put an end to bots in our dreams.

So please, let us not make manipulating the market easier for players (and bots).

It depends on what you mean by "easier". It is easier now since it is so hard to find many things that are not commonly sold and those who do it have the advantage of limited information.

This is clearly an issue that will remain since it is like the Overland Content issue that has been going on for years, well before they made a thread for that.

Some like/love the current system, some do not. Both have firm adherents.

Juomuuri

Back when I played GW2, the global trader prices were insane vs the amount of gold you could get without deliberately farming for it. It cost my left leg and kidney to gear up a new lvl 80 character, and crafting it myself would've cost MORE. I like that ESO has no auction house, I like going around the different traders in zones and checking for bargain priced motifs I don't own yet. Flippers are ofc annoying when you just wanna get an affordable item, but flippers are worse in a global auction house, trust me.

LalMirchi

To me the salient and very relevant point in these AH discussions is the game's lack of a server-wide search. To me this would be priceless as an improvement to the status quo. I'm definitely against any devastation of the present guild systems. Improvements are needed, building on the base design without destruction of its essence.

Perhaps the impact on the database could be controlled by limiting the frequency of the queries = just a shot in dark as I know absolutely nothing about such large databases.

katanagirl1

Juomuuri wrote: »

Back when I played GW2, the global trader prices were insane vs the amount of gold you could get without deliberately farming for it. It cost my left leg and kidney to gear up a new lvl 80 character, and crafting it myself would've cost MORE. I like that ESO has no auction house, I like going around the different traders in zones and checking for bargain priced motifs I don't own yet. Flippers are ofc annoying when you just wanna get an affordable item, but flippers are worse in a global auction house, trust me.

You touched on another feature of the current system, at least on console, where you end up buying something you did not plan on buying, because you got a great deal. You probably won’t do that on PC with add-on to do all of the work for you.

It’s like going to the grocery store and seeing those sale items on the end caps and putting it in your cart. Extra sales and extra coin for the guild.

BasP

Northwold wrote: »

harvey07 wrote: »

you know they (Z) laugh around the office when they see stuff like this. they will not do a universal auction. ever. they will just dance around the subject or never even comment. because...they have decided THIS is how it is going to be.

i would prefer more guild 'slots'.....since this guild auction system is the status quo.

Compromises that improve the situation are possible and not inconceivable. For example, a per-region list of trader stock or, on the player gate issue, some sort of NPC guild trader equivalents for non-guild members with much higher taxes and steeper limits on trading.

I'd definitely like that. While I am not in any guilds, I do have TTC installed and tend to keep a couple of things that are apparently slightly valuable. I wouldn't mind paying a 15% fee (or something) to sell those for ~500k.

Of course I just could join a trader to sell them right now, or spam the zone chat, but I don't really need the gold nor the bank space those things take up so I can't be bothered to do so.

Jordan.nick11b14_ESO

Yes. Guilds running a racket to host a marketplace are tiresome. It might work for some, but I think tech has advanced to the point to where we could probably move past all this, no? Let us have a Marketplace and make it region based amongst the capital cities proper. Give a discount to players trading within their own faction, and put a tax rate that's slightly more aggressive than what guild traders offer.

Options, Zenimax. Create them please.

Amottica

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

freespirit wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

CrashTest wrote: »

No to a centralized auction house because it just makes it easier for the rich players to monopolize the market.

A better option would be to add the functionality of Tamriel Trade Centre to the game, so we don't have to use third party sites to find things for sale. We can just search from within the game and be done with it. This also helps console players who can't use addons.

I will ask again, can you provide some "proof" of the monopolization argument and way that does not happen now?

Attempts at monopolization certainly happen now BUT they are difficult to maintain for any length of time or require a group of players to work together to constantly buy any new listings at the "undesirable" lower price, as these listings are spread across the map.

If there was one centralised Auction House the ease of creating monopolies would soon become apparent, no travel needed, stand in one spot and buy all of whatever item you wish to hike in price!!

You still haven't proven that, just asserted it.

Monopolies exist now, especially on the PC. When TTC says the "normal" price for a companion item is 1/10th its price in any listings, that illustrates that the current system doesn't prevent the monopolies you note. It ends up making them at least as likely, if not more so, since good information is not possible to find with reasonable effort.

Prices tend to settle more to the norm in a central location, something that never gets addressed.

Monopolies do not exist and can not exist in ESO. Not with over 200 trade locations and no way to coordinate timely and up to date listings. It would take having someone at each location around the clock day in and day out with no sales allowed in chat. If you are willing to spend the time you can find the low priced items. That is what players that flip items do. They spend the time looking for bargains.
Just like people who devote a lot of time to trials can end up on the leader board people that dedicate a lot of time to trading can make a lot of gold. That doesn't stop any other player from doing the same with trials or trading.

You have not searched for many things apparently. Yes, monopolies are not totally hole free, but they exist and some play the game just to push up the price of key rarer items.

Sorry, but my own experience looking for things proves you wrong.

And no, I don't want to spend 10 hours to MAYBE find what I am looking for at a "normal" price.

Heck, I have found items posted at a ridiculously low price because the player missed a zero and bought it and flipped it. Players who enjoy finding such deals have only one location to search making it easier to so what is suggested in the post above. Heck, I have found common crafted items that sell well after an expansion at lower prices than normal for the time, purchased them, and sold them at what the market was actually selling and buying it for. It was perfectly legit, and everyone benefited.

It is so much easier with a single market.

Add in bots, which we know exist. The speed at which they can search is notably faster than what we can do, and it never sleeps. Sure, Zenimax can put an end to bots in our dreams.

So please, let us not make manipulating the market easier for players (and bots).

It depends on what you mean by "easier". It is easier now since it is so hard to find many things that are not commonly sold and those who do it have the advantage of limited information.

This is clearly an issue that will remain since it is like the Overland Content issue that has been going on for years, well before they made a thread for that.

Some like/love the current system, some do not. Both have firm adherents.

Easier as everything is in one location. I have only one place to find the best deals before someone else does and flip them for a notable profit or, as I have done in another game, purchase a large sum, which drove the price up, and then resell them. Still flipping, but that is market manipulation. Something that is a much greater challenge in ESO. Yes, I have done both in games with a single point to search and purchase anything listed.

It is very simple.

You are correct that the market design will not see a significant change. The developers who designed this game chose the design for multiple reasons, including what I have just spoken about. The two top decision makers for ESO at Zenimax Online Studio were part of that team. It is unlikely to change as long as at least one is leading the show. Especialy since they know that they cannot make everyone happy, law of how things work, so no reason to change somethign that works.

NoTimeToWait

Amottica wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

freespirit wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

CrashTest wrote: »

No to a centralized auction house because it just makes it easier for the rich players to monopolize the market.

A better option would be to add the functionality of Tamriel Trade Centre to the game, so we don't have to use third party sites to find things for sale. We can just search from within the game and be done with it. This also helps console players who can't use addons.

I will ask again, can you provide some "proof" of the monopolization argument and way that does not happen now?

Attempts at monopolization certainly happen now BUT they are difficult to maintain for any length of time or require a group of players to work together to constantly buy any new listings at the "undesirable" lower price, as these listings are spread across the map.

If there was one centralised Auction House the ease of creating monopolies would soon become apparent, no travel needed, stand in one spot and buy all of whatever item you wish to hike in price!!

You still haven't proven that, just asserted it.

Monopolies exist now, especially on the PC. When TTC says the "normal" price for a companion item is 1/10th its price in any listings, that illustrates that the current system doesn't prevent the monopolies you note. It ends up making them at least as likely, if not more so, since good information is not possible to find with reasonable effort.

Prices tend to settle more to the norm in a central location, something that never gets addressed.

Monopolies do not exist and can not exist in ESO. Not with over 200 trade locations and no way to coordinate timely and up to date listings. It would take having someone at each location around the clock day in and day out with no sales allowed in chat. If you are willing to spend the time you can find the low priced items. That is what players that flip items do. They spend the time looking for bargains.
Just like people who devote a lot of time to trials can end up on the leader board people that dedicate a lot of time to trading can make a lot of gold. That doesn't stop any other player from doing the same with trials or trading.

You have not searched for many things apparently. Yes, monopolies are not totally hole free, but they exist and some play the game just to push up the price of key rarer items.

Sorry, but my own experience looking for things proves you wrong.

And no, I don't want to spend 10 hours to MAYBE find what I am looking for at a "normal" price.

Heck, I have found items posted at a ridiculously low price because the player missed a zero and bought it and flipped it. Players who enjoy finding such deals have only one location to search making it easier to so what is suggested in the post above. Heck, I have found common crafted items that sell well after an expansion at lower prices than normal for the time, purchased them, and sold them at what the market was actually selling and buying it for. It was perfectly legit, and everyone benefited.

It is so much easier with a single market.

Add in bots, which we know exist. The speed at which they can search is notably faster than what we can do, and it never sleeps. Sure, Zenimax can put an end to bots in our dreams.

So please, let us not make manipulating the market easier for players (and bots).

It depends on what you mean by "easier". It is easier now since it is so hard to find many things that are not commonly sold and those who do it have the advantage of limited information.

This is clearly an issue that will remain since it is like the Overland Content issue that has been going on for years, well before they made a thread for that.

Some like/love the current system, some do not. Both have firm adherents.

Easier as everything is in one location. I have only one place to find the best deals before someone else does and flip them for a notable profit or, as I have done in another game, purchase a large sum, which drove the price up, and then resell them. Still flipping, but that is market manipulation. Something that is a much greater challenge in ESO. Yes, I have done both in games with a single point to search and purchase anything listed.

It is very simple.

You are correct that the market design will not see a significant change. The developers who designed this game chose the design for multiple reasons, including what I have just spoken about. The two top decision makers for ESO at Zenimax Online Studio were part of that team. It is unlikely to change as long as at least one is leading the show. Especialy since they know that they cannot make everyone happy, law of how things work, so no reason to change somethign that works.

I would be really surprised if they changed the system. Because the current system performs better than any such system in any other game I know of. I would say even inflation started to be a problem only after 8-10 years of the game, which is something of an achievement, considering most MMOs start to get a runaway inflation at 3-5 year mark

By "system performs better" I mean having a competitive market that is stable to shocks, since it has plenty of resilience to recover after price shocks. Most of the prices are being corrected on a regular basis and most of the things are readily available on the market when you need them (with rare exceptions that mostly happen because of ongoing event)

NoTimeToWait

Cheveyo wrote: »

CrashTest wrote: »

I know people who monopolize certain items on the market. They have a billion+ gold and inflate prices. The only thing stopping them from monopolizing everything is the fact that they have to dedicate many hours daily to travel to every trader in Tamriel and then search them. A central AH is their dream.

No, it isn't.

The current system is their dream because they can control the market.


A centralized system introduces something the current system lacks: COMPETITION. The wealthy will introduce items at a high price and people will refuse to pay for them, like what happens now. But unlike what happens now, in a centralized system someone else will come along and list the same item at a lower price. At first the wealthy will purchase those items to try and resell higher, but it wont work and it will have FORCED them to invest some of their wealthy back into the market, and someone who would have not been able to make any money before, suddenly has a nice sum to work with. Then someone else will come along and sell the item cheaper again. And then someone else will sell it even cheaper. Then someone else will sell it cheaper still. And the cost of every item on the market declines as a result. Some people will attempt to short the market, but it wont work the vast majority of the time.

In the current system, the wealthy can control the cost of everything because they control who can sell and where. Which means they can list items at ridiculous prices and simply wait. They have no competition, so they have nothing to worry about.

Do you even participate in the current trading system as a seller? I am not sure how you can say there is no competition. Personally, I feel constant pressure to be competitive in this current system, compared to other MMOs I have played. Mostly because prices can really change in a matter of weeks or even days in any direction for multiple reasons (most of the price changes are logical, but sometimes could be illogical which really makes it very similar to RL). There are resource chains that you have to look out for if you want your end product to have competitive pricing. If you think you can just list things at whatever price you want in top trader locations, that's not true. You definitely have more leeway with the price range in top locations, but things you sell still have a price range

Amottica

NoTimeToWait wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

freespirit wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

CrashTest wrote: »

No to a centralized auction house because it just makes it easier for the rich players to monopolize the market.

A better option would be to add the functionality of Tamriel Trade Centre to the game, so we don't have to use third party sites to find things for sale. We can just search from within the game and be done with it. This also helps console players who can't use addons.

I will ask again, can you provide some "proof" of the monopolization argument and way that does not happen now?

Attempts at monopolization certainly happen now BUT they are difficult to maintain for any length of time or require a group of players to work together to constantly buy any new listings at the "undesirable" lower price, as these listings are spread across the map.

If there was one centralised Auction House the ease of creating monopolies would soon become apparent, no travel needed, stand in one spot and buy all of whatever item you wish to hike in price!!

You still haven't proven that, just asserted it.

Monopolies exist now, especially on the PC. When TTC says the "normal" price for a companion item is 1/10th its price in any listings, that illustrates that the current system doesn't prevent the monopolies you note. It ends up making them at least as likely, if not more so, since good information is not possible to find with reasonable effort.

Prices tend to settle more to the norm in a central location, something that never gets addressed.

Monopolies do not exist and can not exist in ESO. Not with over 200 trade locations and no way to coordinate timely and up to date listings. It would take having someone at each location around the clock day in and day out with no sales allowed in chat. If you are willing to spend the time you can find the low priced items. That is what players that flip items do. They spend the time looking for bargains.
Just like people who devote a lot of time to trials can end up on the leader board people that dedicate a lot of time to trading can make a lot of gold. That doesn't stop any other player from doing the same with trials or trading.

You have not searched for many things apparently. Yes, monopolies are not totally hole free, but they exist and some play the game just to push up the price of key rarer items.

Sorry, but my own experience looking for things proves you wrong.

And no, I don't want to spend 10 hours to MAYBE find what I am looking for at a "normal" price.

Heck, I have found items posted at a ridiculously low price because the player missed a zero and bought it and flipped it. Players who enjoy finding such deals have only one location to search making it easier to so what is suggested in the post above. Heck, I have found common crafted items that sell well after an expansion at lower prices than normal for the time, purchased them, and sold them at what the market was actually selling and buying it for. It was perfectly legit, and everyone benefited.

It is so much easier with a single market.

Add in bots, which we know exist. The speed at which they can search is notably faster than what we can do, and it never sleeps. Sure, Zenimax can put an end to bots in our dreams.

So please, let us not make manipulating the market easier for players (and bots).

It depends on what you mean by "easier". It is easier now since it is so hard to find many things that are not commonly sold and those who do it have the advantage of limited information.

This is clearly an issue that will remain since it is like the Overland Content issue that has been going on for years, well before they made a thread for that.

Some like/love the current system, some do not. Both have firm adherents.

Easier as everything is in one location. I have only one place to find the best deals before someone else does and flip them for a notable profit or, as I have done in another game, purchase a large sum, which drove the price up, and then resell them. Still flipping, but that is market manipulation. Something that is a much greater challenge in ESO. Yes, I have done both in games with a single point to search and purchase anything listed.

It is very simple.

You are correct that the market design will not see a significant change. The developers who designed this game chose the design for multiple reasons, including what I have just spoken about. The two top decision makers for ESO at Zenimax Online Studio were part of that team. It is unlikely to change as long as at least one is leading the show. Especialy since they know that they cannot make everyone happy, law of how things work, so no reason to change somethign that works.

I would be really surprised if they changed the system. Because the current system performs better than any such system in any other game I know of. I would say even inflation started to be a problem only after 8-10 years of the game, which is something of an achievement, considering most MMOs start to get a runaway inflation at 3-5 year mark

By "system performs better" I mean having a competitive market that is stable to shocks, since it has plenty of resilience to recover after price shocks. Most of the prices are being corrected on a regular basis and most of the things are readily available on the market when you need them (with rare exceptions that mostly happen because of ongoing event)

Oh, I agree. I would not expect them to change the system because it works well.

Sure, some do not like our trader system, and some would never like it because it is different from what they have had in other games. I expect Zenimax knew it would be the case and knows one cannot please everyone.

Nharimlur_Finor

Amottica wrote: »

snip
Sure, some do not like our trader system, and some would never like it because it is different from what they have had in other games. I expect Zenimax knew it would be the case and knows one cannot please everyone.

As I have said before, the current trading system is a product of how players themselves use or abuse the basic functions supplied by ZOS.

Virtually all problems with the current system are caused by players themselves.

The real problem that ZOS should address is the pathetic functionality of the default banking interface.
All users should have access to an interface that is at least as useful as Awesome Guild Store.

Undark

Its as easy as having an NPC in each capital that you can look things up but still require players to travel to places and talk to the appropriate Guild Trader.

That way it's not just some bots standing there doing trading like in a global auction house style system, but we aren't required to break immersion and tab out to a website with horrible UX and deal with the war on adblockers because a third party is paying for the hosting of a feature that should be included in the game to begin with.

RomanRex

JustLovely wrote: »

Inflation is too steep as it is now.

this is 100% not true. there has been massive *deflation*.

i don’t want a centralized system either, but be honest about the current situation.

Charlesce

I'm almost certain that if something like TTC were integrated into the game, bots would read the data from within the menu and scoop every good deal before any human could react, almost every single time.

Bradyfjord

ShadowPaladin wrote: »

All of you central AH fans [Snip], I have the perfect solution for you !!!

Its a solution with which you won't need to travel through all of Tamriel, you won't need to bid and or compete with other players, you won't need to think about setting prices and you won't need to do anything at all !

Guess what it is?!


NPC-Traders selling everything for set prices !!!!

The only thing(s) you will need are certain achievements for certain items .

You want an Aetheric Cipher? No problem, you just need to have learned the *Psijic Ambrosia receipt* and then you can buy one for 2mio gold from an NPC-Vendor, or you can try your luck by farming for it !

You want some Motif-Pages from a motif, which drops in a dungeon or trial? No problem, you just need to have completed a certain achievement for doing something in this dungeon or trial and you can buy them for set prices from a vendor (50k chest, 50k guards, 20k helmet, 20k gloves, 20k boots, 10k belt, 10k shoulders, 15k for each weapon)!

You need resources? No problem, too! You can farm them yourself or you can buy them from a NPC-Vendor for 500g per unit IF you don't have maxed out your crafting skills and don't have the master crafter achievement or if you do, you will get them for 100g per unit .


Great solution, wouldn't you all say ?!

No more inflation, since no one would push prices beyond reasonable levels and because there would be no need to farm endlessly gold. Also, no more arguments about prices which are too low or too high and we would have the perfect gold sinks !

The only downside would be that ZOS could and would dictate the prices !

[Edited for bait]

That sounds like the golden vendor, which I like. I wish we had more options like that as I prefer deterministic systems over what ESO has presently. And it could rotate stock to keep rare items rare, and if prices are high enough traders would still be able to sell.