[Jubilee Event] - Drop rates are a joke

jaws343

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

NeoniKa wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

i never experienced that kind of problem, on either dolmens or geysers lol

the only problem i saw on geysers was the boss would regularly sometimes be disintegrated before it even rendered, but i had no actual lag or any other issue

It's a new problem. It only started with this event.

There are always above 20 or 30 players on geysers, even right now at night. And the servers clearly don't support this number of players at once in the same zone. So, while the geyser is on the ping rises above 999. Many times I'm even removed from the server while trying to play it. But right after it ends, after all players leave, the ping returns to 100. It's only when there are dozens of players there. You can test it now. I'm on PC EU.

i know, thats what im talking about, i spent 2 hours farming geysers day 1 of the event with 30+ people there and i had only slightly FPS drops, but no ping spikes or lag

im on PC NA if that makes a difference

I suspect this is probably an EU (or a personal internet connection) issue. As I also had zero issues with any geysers this past weekend on xbox NA. Everything ran pretty smoothly, and the only real thing that was happening was enemies were dying at spawn. 70-100 or so geysers over the weekend.

Haven't done any Cyrodil this patch yet, but the really only "lag" issue I've seen so far is an odd hitch when viewing the map and jumping up a level to the Tameriel view.

CGPsaint

Comment deleted as my views and opinions are not relevant to ZoS.

liliub17_ESO

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

NeoniKa wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

i never experienced that kind of problem, on either dolmens or geysers lol

the only problem i saw on geysers was the boss would regularly sometimes be disintegrated before it even rendered, but i had no actual lag or any other issue

It's a new problem. It only started with this event.

There are always above 20 or 30 players on geysers, even right now at night. And the servers clearly don't support this number of players at once in the same zone. So, while the geyser is on the ping rises above 999. Many times I'm even removed from the server while trying to play it. But right after it ends, after all players leave, the ping returns to 100. It's only when there are dozens of players there. You can test it now. I'm on PC EU.

i know, thats what im talking about, i spent 2 hours farming geysers day 1 of the event with 30+ people there and i had only slightly FPS drops, but no ping spikes or lag

im on PC NA if that makes a difference

I'm PC NA and have always had horrific lag with geysers since day one. Too many effects triggering with skills, etc. (and I keep those settings low). Dolmens aren't bad at all - until an event means many more ppl than usual. Then it tends to be a bit laggy but nowhere nearly as bad as geysers. Harrowstorms are hit-and-miss with the lag.

BretonMage

NeoniKa wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

i never experienced that kind of problem, on either dolmens or geysers lol

the only problem i saw on geysers was the boss would regularly sometimes be disintegrated before it even rendered, but i had no actual lag or any other issue

It's a new problem. It only started with this event.

There are always above 20 or 30 players on geysers, even right now at night. And the servers clearly don't support this number of players at once in the same zone. So, while the geyser is on the ping rises above 999. Many times I'm even removed from the server while trying to play it. But right after it ends, after all players leave, the ping returns to 100. It's only when there are dozens of players there. You can test it now. I'm on PC EU.

I used to have that problem with Southern Elsweyr dragons on the first weekend of the Anniversary Events, but it's much worse with the geysers this time. I'm on PC NA, but playing from Asia-Pacific region.

And in the meantime, absolutely no one is at the WBs in Summerset, and I often have to do my WB dailies alone. I believe they should have made the Ul'vor page drop from any WB or geyser in the region. It would have made grinding in Summerset a bit more tolerable.

VisitHammerfell

175 fishing holes for Trueflame. 3.5-4 hours for Sunnarah. Haven't got the others yet 😞

I normally grind event stuff on NA, EU, alt NA, and even sometimes alt EU but only bothering to put in effort on my main account main server. This feels like hunting Shadowfen Kilt leads. Not fun. I'd rather get the Yffre's Will chest motif from a coffer than waste time for nothing

tomstock

The grind for the gold style pages in the geysers, fishing, world boss, and dolmens makes the anniversary event a chore, not a a fun event.

Heelie

So far I have spent around 17 hours farming geysers alone, I stopped counting at 200 + geysers done. I don't see the point in these low drop rates on something that is bound. the only reason I can see is FOMO driving player numbers through the roof as people try and drop these 4 style pages.

LokiPagan

I work forty hours a week and I still got the style pages. They wouldn't feel special if you got them immediately for logging in, that's dull. It's not like these are aetherial dust or something, most people will get them if they put in the work. Geysers and Vvardenfell weren't too bad, but the fishing and dolmen ones took hours...but I still got them.

Theist_VII

LokiPagan wrote: »

I work forty hours a week and I still got the style pages. They wouldn't feel special if you got them immediately for logging in, that's dull. It's not like these are aetherial dust or something, most people will get them if they put in the work. Geysers and Vvardenfell weren't too bad, but the fishing and dolmen ones took hours...but I still got them.

Spent all day today on one of my days off glued to the screen doing Geysers and didn’t receive the staff.

That’s at least 8-10 hours of Geyser running and nothing to show for it, I wouldn’t exactly say “Geysers… weren’t too bad” lol

Wolf_Eye

The nature of RNG means that you COULD put in the work and get the reward OR you could put in the work and get NOTHING.

Just because it's unlikely that people who spend 100+ hours farming won't get it doesn't mean it's impossible. That's the unfair part.

The very concept of randomness is that nothing is guaranteed irrespective of how much "work" you put into it.

I don't understand how anyone could say "most people will get them if they put in the work" and think that this is fair. If you put in the work for something, you should be rewarded for it. If you go to your job and they say "we MIGHT pay you your wages if you work a full day today, but we might not" then that wouldn't be fair.

If these rewards were offered year round, then you could at least argue in favor of "well, you can always try again tomorrow" and have some semblance of fairness in the notion that you might eventually get them. In light of these being limited time rewards, this is notion is not applicable.


~~

HatchetHaro

liliub17_ESO wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

NeoniKa wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

i never experienced that kind of problem, on either dolmens or geysers lol

the only problem i saw on geysers was the boss would regularly sometimes be disintegrated before it even rendered, but i had no actual lag or any other issue

It's a new problem. It only started with this event.

There are always above 20 or 30 players on geysers, even right now at night. And the servers clearly don't support this number of players at once in the same zone. So, while the geyser is on the ping rises above 999. Many times I'm even removed from the server while trying to play it. But right after it ends, after all players leave, the ping returns to 100. It's only when there are dozens of players there. You can test it now. I'm on PC EU.

i know, thats what im talking about, i spent 2 hours farming geysers day 1 of the event with 30+ people there and i had only slightly FPS drops, but no ping spikes or lag

im on PC NA if that makes a difference

I'm PC NA and have always had horrific lag with geysers since day one. Too many effects triggering with skills, etc. (and I keep those settings low). Dolmens aren't bad at all - until an event means many more ppl than usual. Then it tends to be a bit laggy but nowhere nearly as bad as geysers. Harrowstorms are hit-and-miss with the lag.

There's an addon called HideGroup that will help a lot.

Theist_VII

Another 8 hours farming the Geysers after two other days of 8 each and nothing.

Who are these styles intended for? 24 hours, a whole day of game time, and nothing to show for it.

Never before have I been defeated by RNG, and that’s coming from someone who ran over 500 Veteran White Gold Tower runs for a Light Divines Molag Kena helmet, and I can officially say that the Ul’vor Staff Style page is too taxing of a grind and I quit until the drop rates are increased.

CGPsaint

Comment deleted as my views and opinions are not relevant to ZoS.

Tensar

This is the worst event I saw i this game... And it's for the 10years anniversary

Vinterskald

Still not entirely sure what the point of them being bound is.

If they weren't bound, the people who don't feel like grinding (or don't have the time, or got too discouraged after not getting anything for hours) could still buy them from other players. And people who look forward to making a big profit could spend all event doing their favourite activity of the ones available and earn a nice bit of gold from it. They could even lower the drop rates further then, and it would barely matter!

But being bound? I don't really see the point. I've done the same world boss in Vvardenfell over and over again for long enough that I've started to worry that maybe this one was bugged to not drop the pages, or something. It's just a disheartening activity.

Since they're bound anyways, why not have it build up a ramping chance that increases the more possible drops you got? Or give a higher drop chance from the get go to players who completed the corresponding zone quest (or the main quest, in the case of the Staff of Worms) to entice players to get those achievements if they haven't yet? Or expand it to other activities - if Sunna'rah, Barbas' mask, and the Ul'vor staff dropped from any kills in the zone, including overland, delves, and trials, it would have given players a choice to do whichever activity they enjoyed most out of the available ones. (And why not expand it to Clockwork City then, too, since the two Vvardenfell pages would make sense to be found in CWC as well?)

As it stands, seeing people report that they've farmed for certain pages for ten hours and more with no luck, during a timed event that players could very well miss out on if they happen to be too busy to log in right now, is just... kind of discouraging

DanteTheDeviant

5 f days into this and still no drop, I'll legit uninstall the game if I don't get the drop before Friday

CristiC

I got a helmet on my first wb in Vvardenfell(solo kill), but no drop so far from dolmens(1 or 2 per day max), granted I only started to these two activities 3 days ago, as geysers are too populated atm and fishing doesn't entice me very much. I have a question in regard to Vvardenfell. On the website it states that one can earn "either the Sunna’rah Replica or the Barbas Helmet Replica". Does this mean that once one drops I cannot get the other?

AnduinTryggva

Heelie wrote: »

So far I have spent around 17 hours farming geysers alone, I stopped counting at 200 + geysers done. I don't see the point in these low drop rates on something that is bound. the only reason I can see is FOMO driving player numbers through the roof as people try and drop these 4 style pages.

I am on the brick of boycotting this event. What a huge smack in the face of players. ZOS may have a great success with ESO but this does not make them eligible to arrogance towards their customers. This could backfire in the long run. There is a history of companies that became arrogant after a success but were abandoned by their customer because of that. I don't wish ZOS to go down that path. So I recommend not to overarch things.

ApoAlaia

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Carcamongus wrote: »

I got the Staff of Worms after 34 dolmens and it appears I'm an outlier. Not because that's exceedingly bad, but because it's uncharacteristically "lucky". 70 geysers and no Ul'vor. I did get lottery-level luck with Sunna'rah, as it dropped on the second WB yesterday, but judging by how long people remained at the boss I camped, that's an extreme outlier. Meanwhile, 31 WBs today and probably around 10 on Friday and no Barbas. The only upsides of failing to get the helm is it's far less tiresome to camp a boss, I get to watch videos and actually grab event boxes, unlike in geysers (because I can never do enough damage).

I can't speak for others, but my idea when trying to farm these pages now is to get them out of the way so I can enjoy the event later. It's not impatience. Of course, getting them out of the way is proving to be a challenge.

i got the staff of worms in like 13 dolmens lol, geysers werent as lucky as dolmens (~2 hours of farming those + 3 geysers on sunday to get the drop)

but RNGesus made up for it by not giving me the barbas helmet for 17 hours of WB camping, and was killing those WB on respawn (assuming 5 min per boss would have been ~200 WB kills to get the barbas helm for me)

from the anecdotal thread on the drops, the fishing one seems to be generally the best drop rate, and the other ones are all over the place for how lucky people get

• fishing is easier because it has the largest number of chances per minute (you can do something like 5-10 casts per minute)
• dolmens are a little better because theres several zones where the dolmens are close to the shrines, but theres still the travel time + complete time per dolmen (i would probably estimate 1 dolmen is cleared every 1-2 minutes)
• geysers are like dolmens, but longer travel times and take longer to complete (estimate your only clearing 1 geyser every 3-5 minutes)
• WB have the 3 min cooldown on loot, so that at a minimum is 1 WB every 3 minutes, but could potentially be longer if your camping a single WB vs traveling to get to another one

the if the drop rate was say 2%, statistically the fishing one will be the easiest to get the drop from due to more chances in shorter time period, but will be on the mercy of RNG for the other methods

Personally I found the fishing one the most palatable by a fair margin.

I do engage with fishing regularly and the only difference was that this time at one point I went 'oh, the page dropped, sweet!' and then continued fishing.

The other drops however involved doing something that is not part of my 'regular schedule' for way, way too long, past the point of becoming unpleasant.

Carcamongus

I was able to collect all 5 pages after a very unpleasant grind. Reading other people's comments, though, I see I can call myself "lucky", for their experience is far worse than mine. Sure, I put in the time and could say I was rewarded for it, but that's not entirely true. It's perfectly possible for someone to grind throughout the whole event and still fail to complete the collection. It shouldn't take over 100 runs of dolmens, geysers or WBs for something that's only cosmetic (as opposed to mythics or specific gear) and tied to a celebration to maybe drop.

Knowing that so many people are groing through grinds far worse than mine gives this event a bitter taste. So far, and unless I'm mistaken, only silence from the devs.

Quite fitting to have Molag Bal on the cake, isn't it?

barney2525

virtus753 wrote: »

dmnqwk wrote: »

The trouble with any RNG is, there will always be outliers.

And those outliers come on the forums to tell us all about it - skewing the numbers and creating more bias for anyone who'd begin.

Personally, I did 40 minutes of Geysers, didn't get it, went and fished and in TWO fishing spots... caught the style motif from there so...

How do you know it's bad RNG and not YOU PERSONALLY SUFFERING?
All RNG is bad when you consider the idea that not everybody will get them - you went in thinking rng meant eventually you will, and no, that's not how numbers work.

The bigger issues is they're bound, not the RNG - complain about them being bound and unlucky people having no way of getting them instead!

Outliers are players too.

Their experiences mean just as much as those who get all their pages more or less immediately and as everyone in between. It is not bias to see how many people are finding it so frustrating to get these pages and to sympathize with them and to struggle with the result.

If everyone here on the forum and in my friends lists and in guild chat and in zone chat talking about how painful they’re finding this grind are all “outliers,” I also really have to question why there are so many before the week is out. How many more players won’t get these pages at all, as you said?

It took me at least 20 hours to get all five pages, and I’m on the lucky side compared to just about every player on my friends or guilds lists who’s trying for these. I was frustrated for myself, but I’m sadder for them. This is not what a celebratory event should feel like for anyone. I don’t want my friends and guildmates feeling this way because of a FOMO mechanic in a game. The worse these types of things get, the less that people will want to play. That’s the opposite of driving engagement.

If there is a chance (and it seems like there is a big one here) that people will not get what was set in front of them as a collectible for the event even though they are putting in the time, that creates eminently avoidable frustration and upset. Why is that a thing? And why is that a thing during a 10th anniversary event? That is not a way to celebrate.

Your last paragraph would have forestalled this, and it was proposed by players on the PTS. But it was not incorporated into the live version, so it was not seen as a solution in ZOS’ eyes. This is the result of that.

ok, fine

but you gotta take Everything, as they say, in moderation
I've had stuff I was farming for Never show up. I had a character fishing Arteum for the Broth recipe. multiple days, many hours - Never got it.

fast forward to this new character. while doing antiquities on Arteum, did a little fishing, got pickled recipe (on first satchel), Broth recipe, blue crayfish and Sword recipe over a span of 3 hours tops.

sometimes life is good. sometimes its carp. Just go with the flow, don't get too high, don't get too low.

virtus753

barney2525 wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

dmnqwk wrote: »

The trouble with any RNG is, there will always be outliers.

And those outliers come on the forums to tell us all about it - skewing the numbers and creating more bias for anyone who'd begin.

Personally, I did 40 minutes of Geysers, didn't get it, went and fished and in TWO fishing spots... caught the style motif from there so...

How do you know it's bad RNG and not YOU PERSONALLY SUFFERING?
All RNG is bad when you consider the idea that not everybody will get them - you went in thinking rng meant eventually you will, and no, that's not how numbers work.

The bigger issues is they're bound, not the RNG - complain about them being bound and unlucky people having no way of getting them instead!

Outliers are players too.

Their experiences mean just as much as those who get all their pages more or less immediately and as everyone in between. It is not bias to see how many people are finding it so frustrating to get these pages and to sympathize with them and to struggle with the result.

If everyone here on the forum and in my friends lists and in guild chat and in zone chat talking about how painful they’re finding this grind are all “outliers,” I also really have to question why there are so many before the week is out. How many more players won’t get these pages at all, as you said?

It took me at least 20 hours to get all five pages, and I’m on the lucky side compared to just about every player on my friends or guilds lists who’s trying for these. I was frustrated for myself, but I’m sadder for them. This is not what a celebratory event should feel like for anyone. I don’t want my friends and guildmates feeling this way because of a FOMO mechanic in a game. The worse these types of things get, the less that people will want to play. That’s the opposite of driving engagement.

If there is a chance (and it seems like there is a big one here) that people will not get what was set in front of them as a collectible for the event even though they are putting in the time, that creates eminently avoidable frustration and upset. Why is that a thing? And why is that a thing during a 10th anniversary event? That is not a way to celebrate.

Your last paragraph would have forestalled this, and it was proposed by players on the PTS. But it was not incorporated into the live version, so it was not seen as a solution in ZOS’ eyes. This is the result of that.

ok, fine

but you gotta take Everything, as they say, in moderation
I've had stuff I was farming for Never show up. I had a character fishing Arteum for the Broth recipe. multiple days, many hours - Never got it.

fast forward to this new character. while doing antiquities on Arteum, did a little fishing, got pickled recipe (on first satchel), Broth recipe, blue crayfish and Sword recipe over a span of 3 hours tops.

sometimes life is good. sometimes its carp. Just go with the flow, don't get too high, don't get too low.

While I would generally agree about life, I don’t think the oracle at Delphi ever predicted video games XD

The thing about video games is they are often an escape from life. Fantasy RPGs in particular offer us the ability to do (or at least simulate) things we never could do in reality. And their systems are designed and deliberately controlled by people in a very direct way.

Drop rates in game are programmed by humans. Drop methods are likewise chosen and implemented by humans. Combining low drop rates, bind on pickup, limited time only, and not available in any other way is a deliberate decision by a group of people with direct power over how the game works. And the end result is that I get to see a lot of my friends, guildmates, and fellow players on the forum severely stressed by that decision. Some RNG is fine, imo. But the current combination of factors, which results in RNG directing the event experience of so many players here, is needlessly stressful. It defeats the point of gaming, and the fact that it’s designed this way - meaning it is able to be changed by the people who designed it - makes it substantially different from so much in life that can’t be changed and with which we have to cope. This is not life. It’s the product of a completely artificial design decision that can be changed. And that should have been.

BXR_Lonestar

Its not even just the bad drop rates though. We have to mention that it is udder crap that you don't even get drops half the time if the boss/anchor/world event are overcrowded because only the top 12 damage dealers get drops. So it is unrealistic to try to farm these things if you go from geyser to geyser and there are 20+ people running to each geyser instead of coordinating and having groups just squat at a geyser so that they cycle through without having to move.

This, IMO, is more egregious than the bad drop rates. I'm okay with items being rare, but game mechanics making it even more difficult to farm? No bueno.

shadyjane62

The drops suck. End of story. I am giving up participating in anything that requires grinding. If I wanted to grind I would play a Korean game.

If the object is to get us to spend money for any of these things, well I just subbed and gave my friend a 13 k crown house. I don't even use the crowns that come with the sub for myself.

D4rk

LokiPagan wrote: »

I work forty hours a week and I still got the style pages. They wouldn't feel special if you got them immediately for logging in, that's dull. It's not like these are aetherial dust or something, most people will get them if they put in the work. Geysers and Vvardenfell weren't too bad, but the fishing and dolmen ones took hours...but I still got them.

Incredible that i got the fishing and the dolmen ones in less than 30m, but its my third day doing Vvanderfell wbs.

virtus753

shadyjane62 wrote: »

The drops suck. End of story. I am giving up participating in anything that requires grinding. If I wanted to grind I would play a Korean game.

If the object is to get us to spend money for any of these things, well I just subbed and gave my friend a 13 k crown house. I don't even use the crowns that come with the sub for myself.

And I'm not sure how the new style pages could even get us to spend money at all. There is no way these pages can directly drive sales because there's nothing to buy. They can't be had for gold, tickets, or crowns. ZOS doesn't sell time or RNG.

Are they hoping the more time in game people spend grinding them, the more likely they will be to buy other things? If anything, the predominant sentiment on the forums (and in my guild chats and discords) seems to be that the grind is turning people off the game, not driving them to the store. It's a bit baffling.

Desiato

The vast majority of event items are easy to get. I think it's fine that a few aren't.

It's fun to some people to put effort into obtaining something rare because they'll value it more. Those people are paying customers too and are also deserving of content that appeals to them.

I would prefer it if they were rare because of a challenging combat event or puzzle, but that would be even more controversial! So a grind it is.

I completed the geyser grind and was able to find ways to have fun with it. I enjoyed learning how to ensure I always got boss loot ungrouped, finding the optimal paths between geysers and even little things like remembering the order in which geysers become active.

As an mmo vet who has played this game since the open beta, I'm disappointed by how watered down everything is now. And this is why. A playerbase that is intolerant of *anything* being inaccessible to them.

Grega

virtus753 wrote: »

shadyjane62 wrote: »

The drops suck. End of story. I am giving up participating in anything that requires grinding. If I wanted to grind I would play a Korean game.

If the object is to get us to spend money for any of these things, well I just subbed and gave my friend a 13 k crown house. I don't even use the crowns that come with the sub for myself.

And I'm not sure how the new style pages could even get us to spend money at all. There is no way these pages can directly drive sales because there's nothing to buy. They can't be had for gold, tickets, or crowns. ZOS doesn't sell time or RNG.

Are they hoping the more time in game people spend grinding them, the more likely they will be to buy other things? If anything, the predominant sentiment on the forums (and in my guild chats and discords) seems to be that the grind is turning people off the game, not driving them to the store. It's a bit baffling.

Yea if that was the plan, it’s definitely back firing. I’ve never seen this many people showing disgust towards ZOS and suggesting quitting on zone chats etc. and by now, almost half the event being done, the damage is done. No backtrack will fix sentiment at this point.

AnduinTryggva

Desiato wrote: »

The vast majority of event items are easy to get. I think it's fine that a few aren't.

It's fun to some people to put effort into obtaining something rare because they'll value it more. Those people are paying customers too and are also deserving of content that appeals to them.

I would prefer it if they were rare because of a challenging combat event or puzzle, but that would be even more controversial! So a grind it is.

I completed the geyser grind and was able to find ways to have fun with it. I enjoyed learning how to ensure I always got boss loot ungrouped, finding the optimal paths between geysers and even little things like remembering the order in which geysers become active.

As an mmo vet who has played this game since the open beta, I'm disappointed by how watered down everything is now. And this is why. A playerbase that is intolerant of *anything* being inaccessible to them.

I don't mind if I don't have everything specifically if it is really hard to obtain in the sense of I am not good enough to do this content (like long time vet Vateshran was and still is a challenge).

But to hide it behind a dumb grind? And let's not forget: Very very likely after the event there is ZERO chance to obtain it. Unlike most other stuff available but rare. There is stuff out there that is very very rare but there is no time limit restricting access to a drop chance.

And let's not forget: This event is for celebrating. It is like organizing a birthday party for a mate and hide a gift there that we know he really likes to have. We let him search but if he did not find it in time he has to say good bye to that gift. Do you believe this mate will be amused?

Suddwrath

virtus753 wrote: »

Are they hoping the more time in game people spend grinding them, the more likely they will be to buy other things? If anything, the predominant sentiment on the forums (and in my guild chats and discords) seems to be that the grind is turning people off the game, not driving them to the store. It's a bit baffling.

If I had to guess, it's for the metrics. For Matt to be able to show stakeholders (and eventually us via letter or video) how an "unprecedented amount of players" participated in the "celebration". Which, if you simply look at a spreadsheet, the numbers might appear impressive due to the amount of time players are investing in these grinds. But if you were to actually look at the player sentiment in game chats, here on the forums, discord, and reddit, it is painfully apparent how negative players view this event.