Dungeon Speed-run etiquette

oddbasket

PapaTankers wrote: »

Yall acting lik

oddbasket wrote: »

PapaTankers wrote: »

oddbasket wrote: »

Speed running isn't new player friendly at all and unfortunately, that's the only mode you will most likely ever get while queuing for a dungeon solo. And this is a terrible experience for new players.

New players and even players doing for quest should have the option to queue for a normal progression mode where bosses aren't skippable, simply by placing an invisible wall after each boss, some games do this.

Players who speed run to farm gear can queue for the regular dungeons.

Random queues should satisfy both queues because you're trying your luck. As of now random queues just only go the way speed running whether you like it or not. Would be nice for players to have this choice.

This is a terrible idea. The ques are already taking ages.
You are suggesting to split up ques even more.

The bulk majority are random queues for transmutes and xp bonus aka speedrunners, having both options will have minimal effect on queue times for this majority and those queueing for regular mode. Those queue for progression mode will likely have a longer wait but I reckon is worth the tradeoff to play at their pace and get to complete achievements or dungeon quests.

The main drawback I see is those who queue random for speedrunner, who may not want to get filled into a progression mode run, but random queue is a mechanic to fill groups while giving player a chance for a faster queue pop so serving both modes will still be it's intended purpose.

This speedrunning thing has always been a toxic positivity/virtue signaling thing, the right to speedrun supercedes any other player's right to anything else, since the other party has no choice but to run along or forfeit xp and loot from kills. With any such abuse of power from a player capable of solo speedrunning vs others low cp and new players at their mercy, there should be a governing body which needs ZOS to review and set some rules or alternative option.

There already is a que for specific goals. Its called a group finder.

Can you elabroate on how speedrunners are virtue signaling? I only see threads about people complainining about speedrunners. No threads about questers slowing the runs down.

You are almost right about zos having to be a governing body, but deffiently not about setting rules.
What they need to do is make dungeon skillpoints act line public dungeons skillpoints. Granted on final boss kill.

That's exactly the kind of toxicity I'm talking about. Anyone but speedrunners have the right for their wait times to be reduced by the random queue, everyone else needs to wait for ages using the group finder with the possibility of not finding a group. The queue for specific dungeon allows you to be filled by random queue but apparently non-speedrunners need to use the group finder, because of course with a warped sense of toxic positivity, they are entitled to play as they like and anyone else who doesn't speedrun with them can just forfeit their xp and loot, or leave and suffer a queue penalty and try your luck in another queue which just ends up the same. That is an abuse of a right of entitlement with no regards to others, which is why ZOS should have some systems in place for who do not intend to speedrun while not penalising them.

Aurielle

PapaTankers wrote: »

oddbasket wrote: »

PapaTankers wrote: »

oddbasket wrote: »

Speed running isn't new player friendly at all and unfortunately, that's the only mode you will most likely ever get while queuing for a dungeon solo. And this is a terrible experience for new players.

New players and even players doing for quest should have the option to queue for a normal progression mode where bosses aren't skippable, simply by placing an invisible wall after each boss, some games do this.

Players who speed run to farm gear can queue for the regular dungeons.

Random queues should satisfy both queues because you're trying your luck. As of now random queues just only go the way speed running whether you like it or not. Would be nice for players to have this choice.

This is a terrible idea. The ques are already taking ages.
You are suggesting to split up ques even more.

The bulk majority are random queues for transmutes and xp bonus aka speedrunners, having both options will have minimal effect on queue times for this majority and those queueing for regular mode. Those queue for progression mode will likely have a longer wait but I reckon is worth the tradeoff to play at their pace and get to complete achievements or dungeon quests.

The main drawback I see is those who queue random for speedrunner, who may not want to get filled into a progression mode run, but random queue is a mechanic to fill groups while giving player a chance for a faster queue pop so serving both modes will still be it's intended purpose.

This speedrunning thing has always been a toxic positivity/virtue signaling thing, the right to speedrun supercedes any other player's right to anything else, since the other party has no choice but to run along or forfeit xp and loot from kills. With any such abuse of power from a player capable of solo speedrunning vs others low cp and new players at their mercy, there should be a governing body which needs ZOS to review and set some rules or alternative option.

Edit: Would also like to ask.
If doing the quest really is the standard way to do the dungeon as so many here claim.
Please explain to me why the quest can only be done once per toon?

Herein lies the rub. Most people running dungeons are NOT doing the quest because, as you say, it’s a one and done deal. I’ve done the FG1 quest seven times, for instance, across each of my seven characters. But I’ve run FG1 literally hundreds of times (probably thousands by this point). The rest of those hundred/thousands of runs were for gear, transmute stones, and the daily XP bonus. They were runs I wanted to finish as fast as possible.

Silaf

I'm an old player and i usually speedrun. Quite frankly if you have complaints you shoud direct them to the designers not other people that sinply have their own game to play.

This said at times i have to level up other pg and i'm extremly tankful for my group companions because in that case i'm literally a parasite contributing little to the group except my mere presence to start the dungeon.
If i have to run it multiple times to close the quest i do it knowing that in a group of 4 like me it would have taken so so much more time assuming we could even close it.

At the end of the dungeon if the group is not instantly disbanded i thank my "babysitters" for what is nothing else than a carry run for me.

And don't ever expect people to write walls of text because you diden't take the time to learn the mechanics by watching a youtube video.

Anifaas

It is amazing how quickly the anti-speed-run crowd turns to petty insults and harsh judgments of other's personal demeanours due to strangers not doing what they want. Some have even go on to accuse others of being toxic without any recognition of the irony.

All of this over a single skill point which you will get eventually due to how many times you're likely to run the dungeons anyway. (A skill point! A generously abundant resource!) Then there is the ease of building your own group to do dungeon quests. All it takes is a little personal initiative.

When in Rome...

PapaTankers

oddbasket wrote: »

PapaTankers wrote: »

Yall acting lik

oddbasket wrote: »

PapaTankers wrote: »

oddbasket wrote: »

Speed running isn't new player friendly at all and unfortunately, that's the only mode you will most likely ever get while queuing for a dungeon solo. And this is a terrible experience for new players.

New players and even players doing for quest should have the option to queue for a normal progression mode where bosses aren't skippable, simply by placing an invisible wall after each boss, some games do this.

Players who speed run to farm gear can queue for the regular dungeons.

Random queues should satisfy both queues because you're trying your luck. As of now random queues just only go the way speed running whether you like it or not. Would be nice for players to have this choice.

This is a terrible idea. The ques are already taking ages.
You are suggesting to split up ques even more.

The bulk majority are random queues for transmutes and xp bonus aka speedrunners, having both options will have minimal effect on queue times for this majority and those queueing for regular mode. Those queue for progression mode will likely have a longer wait but I reckon is worth the tradeoff to play at their pace and get to complete achievements or dungeon quests.

The main drawback I see is those who queue random for speedrunner, who may not want to get filled into a progression mode run, but random queue is a mechanic to fill groups while giving player a chance for a faster queue pop so serving both modes will still be it's intended purpose.

This speedrunning thing has always been a toxic positivity/virtue signaling thing, the right to speedrun supercedes any other player's right to anything else, since the other party has no choice but to run along or forfeit xp and loot from kills. With any such abuse of power from a player capable of solo speedrunning vs others low cp and new players at their mercy, there should be a governing body which needs ZOS to review and set some rules or alternative option.

There already is a que for specific goals. Its called a group finder.

Can you elabroate on how speedrunners are virtue signaling? I only see threads about people complainining about speedrunners. No threads about questers slowing the runs down.

You are almost right about zos having to be a governing body, but deffiently not about setting rules.
What they need to do is make dungeon skillpoints act line public dungeons skillpoints. Granted on final boss kill.

That's exactly the kind of toxicity I'm talking about. Anyone but speedrunners have the right for their wait times to be reduced by the random queue, everyone else needs to wait for ages using the group finder with the possibility of not finding a group. The queue for specific dungeon allows you to be filled by random queue but apparently non-speedrunners need to use the group finder, because of course with a warped sense of toxic positivity, they are entitled to play as they like and anyone else who doesn't speedrun with them can just forfeit their xp and loot, or leave and suffer a queue penalty and try your luck in another queue which just ends up the same. That is an abuse of a right of entitlement with no regards to others, which is why ZOS should have some systems in place for who do not intend to speedrun while not penalising them.

Let's enetertain that trail of thought here for a minute and assume it's the truth.

Can I from this point on start using group finder as means to get my "no death" achivements? If others dont ablidge and die, then can I leave without getting any penalty? Why should I wait 10 minutes, because someone did not familiarize themselves with mechanics?
Why would I forfeit my achivement?

No, ofcourse not. I use group finder if I have a specific goal to find other people with same goals.
As far as rnds go, there is only one certain common goal that people have and that is clearing the content. Everything else is a bonus.

Stirvik

I'm amazed at speed run gear farmers who miss boss, within the dungeon.

PapaTankers

Stirvik wrote: »

I'm amazed at speed run gear farmers who miss boss, within the dungeon.

Body parts fill up very fast. Weapons only drop from chests and last boss.

VoidCommander

The simple solution is to just let them charge ahead. You stay with the quest objectives and catch up to them when you're ready. Unless you are trying to roleplay the quest by literally listening to all the dialogue, then you should be able to complete your objectives in time. Tempest Island has a lot of "quest cutscenes," but even with the rest of the group blazing through they will not reach a boss before you can talk to the Elf Commander each time.

If you ARE just listening to the dialogue to absorb the experience, then no you have ZERO right to demand anyone to tolerate that. You get a roleplay group to go through the dungeon with you via group finder if you want to do that. No way should it be expected for THREE OTHER PEOPLE to wait a collective 10 minutes for you to listen to the voice actors' performances.

I rush through dungeons, and I also do roleplay runs first to absorb the story. This is very doable. If you really want to metagame it, with only a few exceptions you can solo dungeons with a companion to absorb the story. Bringing in one other player with their companion basically gets you to basic group effectiveness if the players are DPS and the companions are healer/tank with little difference on normal difficulty (and some vanilla veteran dungeons).

gariondavey

The etiquette for dungeon speed running is that you always run the dungeon as a speed run, at all times, every time, unless you are with 3 friends who have all agreed to do a slow, quest involved/lore run.

spartaxoxo

PapaTankers wrote: »

Stirvik wrote: »

I'm amazed at speed run gear farmers who miss boss, within the dungeon.

Body parts fill up very fast. Weapons only drop from chests and last boss.

Weapons also drop from adds

spartaxoxo

VoidCommander wrote: »

The simple solution is to just let them charge ahead. .

You can't pick up the quest if someone charges ahead in BC1 regardless if you're reading.

Suddwrath

When a player queues for a specific dungeon to complete the quest for a skillpoint, they are engaging in normal gameplay and are utilizing the system as is intended. When a player queues for a random dungeon for the daily undaunted reward they too are utilizing the system as is intended. However, when these players who queued for a random dungeon prevent the players who queued for a specific dungeon from completing the dungeon's quest by rushing ahead through the dungeon they are disrupting the intended flow of gameplay for the other player (especially when that player has voiced that they are doing the quest). This is explicitly against TOS: Examples of disruptive behavior include, but are not limited to, conduct which interferes with the normal flow of gameplay.

When a player queues for a random dungeon they need to understand that they are being paired mostly with players who have queued for specific dungeons. Rushing ahead and preventing a player from completing a dungeon quest is disruptive to their gameplay, but slowing down and allowing them to complete the necessary steps of the quest is not disruptive to the gameplay of the random dungeon queuers.

ESO has by far the worst queue-etiquette of any MMO I've played. In addition to the shocking amount of blatant racism and harassment in the dungeon group chats, the disregard for players who are completing the dungeon for the first time/for the quest all for the sake of shaving a couple of minutes off the time it takes to complete a random dungeon queue is frustrating and one-sided. @ZOS_Kevin I strongly encourage you to read through the replies in this thread and consider ZOS making a statement (either in the forums, or in the queue windows in-game) addressing this and what ZOS' official stance is. This is an issue that should not be ignored.

FlopsyPrince

ZOS needs to at least allow "quest completion" no matter how fast the rest of the group does the dungeon. Allow me to get credit and the associated skill point even if they race ahead.

They fixed part of the Fungal Grotto quest so the head automatically gets stuck on the pike. That is needed in ALL dungeons.

Use Group Finder if you want a slow pace.

====

You should also be able to pick up the quest even if someone zooms ahead and gets into combat!

FlopsyPrince

I hate the random queue since I have gotten caught in too many DLC dungeons that have tactics that are not clear and can easily caused repeated wipes.

Soarora

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

ZOS needs to at least allow "quest completion" no matter how fast the rest of the group does the dungeon. Allow me to get credit and the associated skill point even if they race ahead.

They fixed part of the Fungal Grotto quest so the head automatically gets stuck on the pike. That is needed in ALL dungeons.

Use Group Finder if you want a slow pace.

====

You should also be able to pick up the quest even if someone zooms ahead and gets into combat!

It is like that for all dungeons. Maybe or maybe not for VoM though, I’ve heard it both ways. The only thing that needs fixed is a way to get the quest during combat and turn in the quest if you leave before turning it in.

FlopsyPrince

Soarora wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

ZOS needs to at least allow "quest completion" no matter how fast the rest of the group does the dungeon. Allow me to get credit and the associated skill point even if they race ahead.

They fixed part of the Fungal Grotto quest so the head automatically gets stuck on the pike. That is needed in ALL dungeons.

Use Group Finder if you want a slow pace.

====

You should also be able to pick up the quest even if someone zooms ahead and gets into combat!

It is like that for all dungeons. Maybe or maybe not for VoM though, I’ve heard it both ways. The only thing that needs fixed is a way to get the quest during combat and turn in the quest if you leave before turning it in.

You missed "optional bosses" needed for the quest but not the speedrun. And having one boss killed and you are not close enough for credit. I think Volenfell has a switch you won't get credit for flipping if you are not close enough as well.

Soarora

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

ZOS needs to at least allow "quest completion" no matter how fast the rest of the group does the dungeon. Allow me to get credit and the associated skill point even if they race ahead.

They fixed part of the Fungal Grotto quest so the head automatically gets stuck on the pike. That is needed in ALL dungeons.

Use Group Finder if you want a slow pace.

====

You should also be able to pick up the quest even if someone zooms ahead and gets into combat!

It is like that for all dungeons. Maybe or maybe not for VoM though, I’ve heard it both ways. The only thing that needs fixed is a way to get the quest during combat and turn in the quest if you leave before turning it in.

You missed "optional bosses" needed for the quest but not the speedrun. And having one boss killed and you are not close enough for credit. I think Volenfell has a switch you won't get credit for flipping if you are not close enough as well.

No, those are skippable with the quest change. Like in COH, I’ve gotten the quest done even with skipping the quest side boss. The quests all update at certain points.

Grizzbeorn

Suddwrath wrote: »

This is explicitly against TOS

No, it is not.
If it were, then you would see people getting banned for running ahead.
People don't get banned for running ahead.

MidniteOwl1913

Aurielle wrote: »

PapaTankers wrote: »

oddbasket wrote: »

PapaTankers wrote: »

oddbasket wrote: »

Speed running isn't new player friendly at all and unfortunately, that's the only mode you will most likely ever get while queuing for a dungeon solo. And this is a terrible experience for new players.

New players and even players doing for quest should have the option to queue for a normal progression mode where bosses aren't skippable, simply by placing an invisible wall after each boss, some games do this.

Players who speed run to farm gear can queue for the regular dungeons.

Random queues should satisfy both queues because you're trying your luck. As of now random queues just only go the way speed running whether you like it or not. Would be nice for players to have this choice.

This is a terrible idea. The ques are already taking ages.
You are suggesting to split up ques even more.

The bulk majority are random queues for transmutes and xp bonus aka speedrunners, having both options will have minimal effect on queue times for this majority and those queueing for regular mode. Those queue for progression mode will likely have a longer wait but I reckon is worth the tradeoff to play at their pace and get to complete achievements or dungeon quests.

The main drawback I see is those who queue random for speedrunner, who may not want to get filled into a progression mode run, but random queue is a mechanic to fill groups while giving player a chance for a faster queue pop so serving both modes will still be it's intended purpose.

This speedrunning thing has always been a toxic positivity/virtue signaling thing, the right to speedrun supercedes any other player's right to anything else, since the other party has no choice but to run along or forfeit xp and loot from kills. With any such abuse of power from a player capable of solo speedrunning vs others low cp and new players at their mercy, there should be a governing body which needs ZOS to review and set some rules or alternative option.

Edit: Would also like to ask.
If doing the quest really is the standard way to do the dungeon as so many here claim.
Please explain to me why the quest can only be done once per toon?

Herein lies the rub. Most people running dungeons are NOT doing the quest because, as you say, it’s a one and done deal. I’ve done the FG1 quest seven times, for instance, across each of my seven characters. But I’ve run FG1 literally hundreds of times (probably thousands by this point). The rest of those hundred/thousands of runs were for gear, transmute stones, and the daily XP bonus. They were runs I wanted to finish as fast as possible.

And you were able to do that quest on your alts because the rest of the group didn't run to final boss and end the activity before you got there. I too have done FG on all 8 alts. I was able to do that because the group supported me. I just think that the people who come after me deserve the same respect that those other players gave me.

spartaxoxo

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

ZOS needs to at least allow "quest completion" no matter how fast the rest of the group does the dungeon. Allow me to get credit and the associated skill point even if they race ahead.

They fixed part of the Fungal Grotto quest so the head automatically gets stuck on the pike. That is needed in ALL dungeons.

Use Group Finder if you want a slow pace.

====

You should also be able to pick up the quest even if someone zooms ahead and gets into combat!

I agree. Ultimately, the main blame for why speed runners are able to force people out of quests is because some of the older ones haven't been updated to modern standards. This would not be an issue if they simply fixed them.

valenwood_vegan

This is all so exhausting. Essentially a bunch of variations on "I want to press a button and with no effort have the game instantly provide me a random group... oh wait not that group... nope not that one... nope, they need to meet all of my requirements. No me, that way of running dungeons isn't the correct way, mine is!!"

I used to joke about it, but maybe they should actually just remove the random finder now that group finder exists.

On a more serious and constructive note, I do think they should at least go through and fix all of the quests so they auto-complete where necessary and don't break or become blocked because of the actions of other players.

Celldweller

I have never played another game where people are in so much of a hurry than in ESO. It is not even necessarily doing the quest, some new players simply cannot keep up with the run speed of the rest of the group. When I started playing ESO my experience of doing dungeons was chasing after people and trying to work out where they had gone, never getting to even see a mob let alone get a hit in so I just stopped doing dungeons for about eight months till I joined a guild with considerate people that cared about what other peoples experience of the game was rather than self gratification.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that there is anything wrong with wanting to get through the content quickly, but if I am in a group of three and we get a random that's already sprinted off to the first boss before we have all even loaded in properly that person will find themselves getting kicked.

Aurielle

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

PapaTankers wrote: »

oddbasket wrote: »

PapaTankers wrote: »

oddbasket wrote: »

Speed running isn't new player friendly at all and unfortunately, that's the only mode you will most likely ever get while queuing for a dungeon solo. And this is a terrible experience for new players.

New players and even players doing for quest should have the option to queue for a normal progression mode where bosses aren't skippable, simply by placing an invisible wall after each boss, some games do this.

Players who speed run to farm gear can queue for the regular dungeons.

Random queues should satisfy both queues because you're trying your luck. As of now random queues just only go the way speed running whether you like it or not. Would be nice for players to have this choice.

This is a terrible idea. The ques are already taking ages.
You are suggesting to split up ques even more.

The bulk majority are random queues for transmutes and xp bonus aka speedrunners, having both options will have minimal effect on queue times for this majority and those queueing for regular mode. Those queue for progression mode will likely have a longer wait but I reckon is worth the tradeoff to play at their pace and get to complete achievements or dungeon quests.

The main drawback I see is those who queue random for speedrunner, who may not want to get filled into a progression mode run, but random queue is a mechanic to fill groups while giving player a chance for a faster queue pop so serving both modes will still be it's intended purpose.

This speedrunning thing has always been a toxic positivity/virtue signaling thing, the right to speedrun supercedes any other player's right to anything else, since the other party has no choice but to run along or forfeit xp and loot from kills. With any such abuse of power from a player capable of solo speedrunning vs others low cp and new players at their mercy, there should be a governing body which needs ZOS to review and set some rules or alternative option.

Edit: Would also like to ask.
If doing the quest really is the standard way to do the dungeon as so many here claim.
Please explain to me why the quest can only be done once per toon?

Herein lies the rub. Most people running dungeons are NOT doing the quest because, as you say, it’s a one and done deal. I’ve done the FG1 quest seven times, for instance, across each of my seven characters. But I’ve run FG1 literally hundreds of times (probably thousands by this point). The rest of those hundred/thousands of runs were for gear, transmute stones, and the daily XP bonus. They were runs I wanted to finish as fast as possible.

And you were able to do that quest on your alts because the rest of the group didn't run to final boss and end the activity before you got there. I too have done FG on all 8 alts. I was able to do that because the group supported me. I just think that the people who come after me deserve the same respect that those other players gave me.

Actually, I soloed the quest on most of the alts.

MidniteOwl1913

Aurielle wrote: »

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

PapaTankers wrote: »

oddbasket wrote: »

PapaTankers wrote: »

oddbasket wrote: »

Speed running isn't new player friendly at all and unfortunately, that's the only mode you will most likely ever get while queuing for a dungeon solo. And this is a terrible experience for new players.

New players and even players doing for quest should have the option to queue for a normal progression mode where bosses aren't skippable, simply by placing an invisible wall after each boss, some games do this.

Players who speed run to farm gear can queue for the regular dungeons.

Random queues should satisfy both queues because you're trying your luck. As of now random queues just only go the way speed running whether you like it or not. Would be nice for players to have this choice.

This is a terrible idea. The ques are already taking ages.
You are suggesting to split up ques even more.

The bulk majority are random queues for transmutes and xp bonus aka speedrunners, having both options will have minimal effect on queue times for this majority and those queueing for regular mode. Those queue for progression mode will likely have a longer wait but I reckon is worth the tradeoff to play at their pace and get to complete achievements or dungeon quests.

The main drawback I see is those who queue random for speedrunner, who may not want to get filled into a progression mode run, but random queue is a mechanic to fill groups while giving player a chance for a faster queue pop so serving both modes will still be it's intended purpose.

This speedrunning thing has always been a toxic positivity/virtue signaling thing, the right to speedrun supercedes any other player's right to anything else, since the other party has no choice but to run along or forfeit xp and loot from kills. With any such abuse of power from a player capable of solo speedrunning vs others low cp and new players at their mercy, there should be a governing body which needs ZOS to review and set some rules or alternative option.

Edit: Would also like to ask.
If doing the quest really is the standard way to do the dungeon as so many here claim.
Please explain to me why the quest can only be done once per toon?

Herein lies the rub. Most people running dungeons are NOT doing the quest because, as you say, it’s a one and done deal. I’ve done the FG1 quest seven times, for instance, across each of my seven characters. But I’ve run FG1 literally hundreds of times (probably thousands by this point). The rest of those hundred/thousands of runs were for gear, transmute stones, and the daily XP bonus. They were runs I wanted to finish as fast as possible.

And you were able to do that quest on your alts because the rest of the group didn't run to final boss and end the activity before you got there. I too have done FG on all 8 alts. I was able to do that because the group supported me. I just think that the people who come after me deserve the same respect that those other players gave me.

Actually, I soloed the quest on most of the alts.

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure no one is complaining about solo speedrunners... ;-)

Aurielle

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

PapaTankers wrote: »

oddbasket wrote: »

PapaTankers wrote: »

oddbasket wrote: »

Speed running isn't new player friendly at all and unfortunately, that's the only mode you will most likely ever get while queuing for a dungeon solo. And this is a terrible experience for new players.

New players and even players doing for quest should have the option to queue for a normal progression mode where bosses aren't skippable, simply by placing an invisible wall after each boss, some games do this.

Players who speed run to farm gear can queue for the regular dungeons.

Random queues should satisfy both queues because you're trying your luck. As of now random queues just only go the way speed running whether you like it or not. Would be nice for players to have this choice.

This is a terrible idea. The ques are already taking ages.
You are suggesting to split up ques even more.

The bulk majority are random queues for transmutes and xp bonus aka speedrunners, having both options will have minimal effect on queue times for this majority and those queueing for regular mode. Those queue for progression mode will likely have a longer wait but I reckon is worth the tradeoff to play at their pace and get to complete achievements or dungeon quests.

The main drawback I see is those who queue random for speedrunner, who may not want to get filled into a progression mode run, but random queue is a mechanic to fill groups while giving player a chance for a faster queue pop so serving both modes will still be it's intended purpose.

This speedrunning thing has always been a toxic positivity/virtue signaling thing, the right to speedrun supercedes any other player's right to anything else, since the other party has no choice but to run along or forfeit xp and loot from kills. With any such abuse of power from a player capable of solo speedrunning vs others low cp and new players at their mercy, there should be a governing body which needs ZOS to review and set some rules or alternative option.

Edit: Would also like to ask.
If doing the quest really is the standard way to do the dungeon as so many here claim.
Please explain to me why the quest can only be done once per toon?

Herein lies the rub. Most people running dungeons are NOT doing the quest because, as you say, it’s a one and done deal. I’ve done the FG1 quest seven times, for instance, across each of my seven characters. But I’ve run FG1 literally hundreds of times (probably thousands by this point). The rest of those hundred/thousands of runs were for gear, transmute stones, and the daily XP bonus. They were runs I wanted to finish as fast as possible.

And you were able to do that quest on your alts because the rest of the group didn't run to final boss and end the activity before you got there. I too have done FG on all 8 alts. I was able to do that because the group supported me. I just think that the people who come after me deserve the same respect that those other players gave me.

Actually, I soloed the quest on most of the alts.

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure no one is complaining about solo speedrunners... ;-)

What’s your point? You said I was able to do the quest because the group didn’t run ahead, which was incorrect — I was able to easily do the quest by myself, because the base game dungeons are trivial. If I was allowed to solo random daily dungeons for the transmute stones too, I would.

spartaxoxo

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

I used to joke about it, but maybe they should actually just remove the random finder now that group finder exists.

No. The activity finder is needed. It is not unreasonable to want to be able to complete one of the primary reasons for completing a dungeon using the dungeon finder. It is not unreasonable to find being physically prevented from doing the quest that run by another player to be a frustrating experience. It is also not unreasonable to want to do the dungeon to the best of your own ability, which may not match everyone in your team's ability.

This is why other games specifically design things to reduce these types of conflicts. And ZOS already HAS fixed this issue in later dungeons by awarding the skill point at dungeon completion. There's really no reason it can't be the same for the older ones except they often don't improve old content. They should do so in Q3 at some point IMO.

dk_dunkirk

PapaTankers wrote: »

Stirvik wrote: »

I'm amazed at speed run gear farmers who miss boss, within the dungeon.

Body parts fill up very fast. Weapons only drop from chests and last boss.

They REALLY need to allow weapons to drop from all the bosses. It's a miserable grind to get the full sticker book on every dungeon, and they just keep adding more every year.

Amottica

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

ZOS needs to at least allow "quest completion" no matter how fast the rest of the group does the dungeon. Allow me to get credit and the associated skill point even if they race ahead.

They fixed part of the Fungal Grotto quest so the head automatically gets stuck on the pike. That is needed in ALL dungeons.

Use Group Finder if you want a slow pace.

====

You should also be able to pick up the quest even if someone zooms ahead and gets into combat!

Zenimax has already provided the means to get a group to do a dungeon to complete the quest. It is called using the group finder option instead of the dungeon finder. Granted, it is probably faster to call out in guilds and zone to form such a group, but we have been provided the means.

spartaxoxo

Amottica wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

ZOS needs to at least allow "quest completion" no matter how fast the rest of the group does the dungeon. Allow me to get credit and the associated skill point even if they race ahead.

They fixed part of the Fungal Grotto quest so the head automatically gets stuck on the pike. That is needed in ALL dungeons.

Use Group Finder if you want a slow pace.

====

You should also be able to pick up the quest even if someone zooms ahead and gets into combat!

Zenimax has already provided the means to get a group to do a dungeon to complete the quest. It is called using the group finder option instead of the dungeon finder. Granted, it is probably faster to call out in guilds and zone to form such a group, but we have been provided the means.

People shouldn't need to slow things down a half hour and play with people who are there to listen just to do a small amount of quests. Anyone who actually uses the activity finder would know the majority of quests work just fine. It's literally just a small amount of quests that would need to be tweaked. And they literally have a whole quarter dedicated to such changes.

Edit

Beyond that, group finder is its own thing. It doesn't fix activity finder or the issues with it. The activity finder experience is so frustrating that players are fighting players over it. And it's not even a competitive thing. That's a result of poor design. A person who puts a blanket over their head may no longer see a giant mess in their backyard. But only actively cleaning it makes it go away.

Activity finders issues cannot be and will not be fixed by not using it.

Soarora

dk_dunkirk wrote: »

PapaTankers wrote: »

Stirvik wrote: »

I'm amazed at speed run gear farmers who miss boss, within the dungeon.

Body parts fill up very fast. Weapons only drop from chests and last boss.

They REALLY need to allow weapons to drop from all the bosses. It's a miserable grind to get the full sticker book on every dungeon, and they just keep adding more every year.

If not that, then I think another proposal is to make the chests always drop 1-3 weapons/jewelry. It would certainly be nice to not have to grind every dungeon uh... like... 48 times? I really don't want to do BRF but my collectionnssss...