Dungeon Speed-run etiquette

SonOfSoma

I'm so shocked sometimes by the entitled, self-indulgent members of this community.

Today I was on a level 45 ult account, trying to do my pledges.
As it happens I have not completed the quest for Banished Cells 1. So upon starting the run I grouped messaged that I was doing the quest and expected the group to just wait so I could collect it...but oh no.... here we go the 1600+ cp run off..

I expressed my frustration to be told that they were limited for time and if I didn't like it I could "leave".

Personally I always make a conscious effort to accommodate low level players, especially when they state they are doing the quest.

I'm just so astounded by the rudness of some players.
It's a shame that some people are like this.. God knows what they're like in the real world

Aurielle

SonOfSoma wrote: »

I'm so shocked sometimes by the entitled, self-indulgent members of this community.

Today I was on a level 45 ult account, trying to do my pledges.
As it happens I have not completed the quest for Banished Cells 1. So upon starting the run I grouped messaged that I was doing the quest and expected the group to just wait so I could collect it...but oh no.... here we go the 1600+ cp run off..

I expressed my frustration to be told that they were limited for time and if I didn't like it I could "leave".

Personally I always make a conscious effort to accommodate low level players, especially when they state they are doing the quest.

I'm just so astounded by the rudness of some players.
It's a shame that some people are like this.. God knows what they're like in the real world

I mean, they probably feel like you were rude and entitled too for expecting them to slow down for you.

My personal rule of thumb with random PUGs is this: don’t queue for them expecting the run will go exactly as you want it to go. You’re at the whim and mercy of three other players who may not share your particular goal. If you want any dungeon run to proceed in a particular way, you’re better off advertising for your run in the group finder or in guild chat, as you’ll have a better shot at running the dungeon with like-minded people. That tool exists for this exact reason.

SonOfSoma

Is it really that hard for people to wait 30 seconds?!?!?

Aurielle

SonOfSoma wrote: »

Is it really that hard for people to wait 30 seconds?!?!?

No, but that’s besides the point. You were expecting everyone to wait for you, when they just wanted to plow through the dungeon as fast as possible to get it over and done with. Again, if you want a dungeon to proceed in a particular way, it is best to advertise for a quest run in group finder or in guild chat. Many people will slow down in PUGs when asked, but not everyone will. It’s just the nature of pugging with people you don’t know. Tools exist to bypass this issue.

LunaFlora

yea it is very frustrating that so many people are like that

Aurielle wrote: »

SonOfSoma wrote: »

I'm so shocked sometimes by the entitled, self-indulgent members of this community.

Today I was on a level 45 ult account, trying to do my pledges.
As it happens I have not completed the quest for Banished Cells 1. So upon starting the run I grouped messaged that I was doing the quest and expected the group to just wait so I could collect it...but oh no.... here we go the 1600+ cp run off..

I expressed my frustration to be told that they were limited for time and if I didn't like it I could "leave".

Personally I always make a conscious effort to accommodate low level players, especially when they state they are doing the quest.

I'm just so astounded by the rudness of some players.
It's a shame that some people are like this.. God knows what they're like in the real world

I mean, they probably feel like you were rude and entitled too for expecting them to slow down for you.

quests are a part of dungeons.
it isn't rude or entitled to want people to wait at a quest objective for a little bit and not abandon a group member.

SonOfSoma

Tools exist to bypass this issue.[/quote]

Obviously you have never used the Group Finder tool for specific Normal dungeons.

In my experience I have waited for over an hour for anyone to apply...

In this case its so much quicker and successful to queue for specific dungeon.

Aurielle

LunaFlora wrote: »

yea it is very frustrating that so many people are like that

Aurielle wrote: »

SonOfSoma wrote: »

I'm so shocked sometimes by the entitled, self-indulgent members of this community.

Today I was on a level 45 ult account, trying to do my pledges.
As it happens I have not completed the quest for Banished Cells 1. So upon starting the run I grouped messaged that I was doing the quest and expected the group to just wait so I could collect it...but oh no.... here we go the 1600+ cp run off..

I expressed my frustration to be told that they were limited for time and if I didn't like it I could "leave".

Personally I always make a conscious effort to accommodate low level players, especially when they state they are doing the quest.

I'm just so astounded by the rudness of some players.
It's a shame that some people are like this.. God knows what they're like in the real world

I mean, they probably feel like you were rude and entitled too for expecting them to slow down for you.

quests are a part of dungeons.
it isn't rude or entitled to want people to wait at a quest objective for a little bit and not abandon a group member.

If those three have already completed the quest and just want to finish the dungeon quickly for the pledge or for the transmute stones, then yes, they could perceive it as “rude” or “entitled” for someone to ask them all to slow down to listen to NPC dialogue they’ve already heard before. I’m not saying it’s right, just reiterating that one’s own individual objectives may differ from the group’s.

When you queue with random people without setting out any expectations that all agree to prior to the run, it is simply easier and less aggravating for all involved to just go with the flow. I could understand getting upset with someone for speeding through a group finder run or guild run advertised as a quest run… but with random dungeons, you just get what you get.

It’s not worth it to get upset about it. Just try again later, or advertise for a quest group.

Aurielle

SonOfSoma wrote: »

Obviously you have never used the Group Finder tool for specific Normal dungeons.

In my experience I have waited for over an hour for anyone to apply...

In this case its so much quicker and successful to queue for specific dungeon.

No, I have personally not used the group finder tool for normal dungeons, because I can solo most of them (besides certain DLC dungeons or dungeons like Direfrost that require multiple people to stand on platforms/pull levers, etc). I’ve found it very useful for farming runs and whatnot though.

Are you in a guild? Most guild members will happily help another guild member out with a quest. Many have alts that still need to do those quests as well. Or, as I suggested above, you could simply try again. One bad run doesn’t mean they’ll all be like that.

Stanx

I always wait when asked, personally.

That said, I always cringe when I get Banished Cells on a new toon as after the third keeper it makes you wait a good 2 minutes for the NPCs to slowly walk into the room and become interactable before you can move on to the kinlord. God forbid you want to listen/read the dialogue, too. Half the time the group have almost finished the boss fight by the time I get down there.

Major_Toughness

Maybe all 3 of them wanted to speedrun [snip]

[edited for inappropriate content]

fizl101

Major_Toughness wrote: »

Maybe all 3 of them wanted to speedrun [snip].

Then they could have said at the beginning just like the OP asking to hang back while they grab the quest. I'm fairly sure you can get the speed run even with picking up the quest

[edited to remove quote]

JanTanhide

SonOfSoma wrote: »

I'm so shocked sometimes by the entitled, self-indulgent members of this community.

Today I was on a level 45 ult account, trying to do my pledges.
As it happens I have not completed the quest for Banished Cells 1. So upon starting the run I grouped messaged that I was doing the quest and expected the group to just wait so I could collect it...but oh no.... here we go the 1600+ cp run off..

I expressed my frustration to be told that they were limited for time and if I didn't like it I could "leave".

Personally I always make a conscious effort to accommodate low level players, especially when they state they are doing the quest.

I'm just so astounded by the rudness of some players.
It's a shame that some people are like this.. God knows what they're like in the real world

I agree with you. I always wait for someone doing the quest. Always. When I queue for a random normal I expect lowbies to be running the dungeon(s). There definitely needs to be a way to deal with this. ZOS should make a "Speed Runner" random dungeon selection for those that want to burn through a dungeon.

Dragonnord

When I use the finder/random group instead of my friends or guilds, I expect nothing.

So I used that statement and I never get mad nor frustrated.
 

DanteTheDeviant

If you're going to join a group with random people, you shouldn't have any expectations for how they'll be. Some people are bad at the game, some people are really good at the game, some people have little time in their irl to enjoy ESO, while others may have all the time to take their time, etc etc.

Everyone's situation is different. I understand wanting to hear the quest and learning the lore, I love taking my time, but I group with friends, use group finder for people who wanna take it slow, or solo the dungeon myself (this makes it like a fun challenge and more rewarding to me, like how Dark Souls does their game difficulty).

spartaxoxo

It's pretty rude for them not to at least address someone that has made the request to slow down so they can complete the quest. "I'm sorry but I can't this time, I have to go soon," is just basic human decency.

SonOfSoma

Oh don't get me wrong.
I want to get the dungeon done as quickly as possible... I'm not there for the lore etc.

I've run all the dungeons a million times..
I just want that skill point!

old_scopie1945

Stanx wrote: »

I always wait when asked, personally.

That said, I always cringe when I get Banished Cells on a new toon as after the third keeper it makes you wait a good 2 minutes for the NPCs to slowly walk into the room and become interactable before you can move on to the kinlord. God forbid you want to listen/read the dialogue, too. Half the time the group have almost finished the boss fight by the time I get down there.

If you think that's a problem, what about the 'Vaults of Madness'. It's like watching a Shakespeare play, the dialog takes so long. Good luck doing that quest before you get high enough to solo it. It's one thing more that makes me wonder if the Devs even play the game in the real world.

old_scopie1945

JanTanhide wrote: »

SonOfSoma wrote: »

I'm so shocked sometimes by the entitled, self-indulgent members of this community.

Today I was on a level 45 ult account, trying to do my pledges.
As it happens I have not completed the quest for Banished Cells 1. So upon starting the run I grouped messaged that I was doing the quest and expected the group to just wait so I could collect it...but oh no.... here we go the 1600+ cp run off..

I expressed my frustration to be told that they were limited for time and if I didn't like it I could "leave".

Personally I always make a conscious effort to accommodate low level players, especially when they state they are doing the quest.

I'm just so astounded by the rudness of some players.
It's a shame that some people are like this.. God knows what they're like in the real world

I agree with you. I always wait for someone doing the quest. Always. When I queue for a random normal I expect lowbies to be running the dungeon(s). There definitely needs to be a way to deal with this. ZOS should make a "Speed Runner" random dungeon selection for those that want to burn through a dungeon.

Deffo for this.

Grizzbeorn

fizl101 wrote: »

Major_Toughness wrote: »

Maybe all 3 of them wanted to speedrun and it is a democracy.

Then they could have said at the beginning

They DID say at the beginning, in response to the OP asking them to go slow so he could do the quest.
They told him they didn't want to wait.
He was the odd man out in that run; majority is the rule when you choose to play with John J. Rando.

Vulkunne

SonOfSoma wrote: »

I'm so shocked sometimes by the entitled, self-indulgent members of this community.

Today I was on a level 45 ult account, trying to do my pledges.
As it happens I have not completed the quest for Banished Cells 1. So upon starting the run I grouped messaged that I was doing the quest and expected the group to just wait so I could collect it...but oh no.... here we go the 1600+ cp run off..

I expressed my frustration to be told that they were limited for time and if I didn't like it I could "leave".

Personally I always make a conscious effort to accommodate low level players, especially when they state they are doing the quest.

I'm just so astounded by the rudness of some players.
It's a shame that some people are like this.. God knows what they're like in the real world

Well it kind of works both ways right? I mean, when I do 4-man Tanking I'm not really there for questing; I'm there for the pledge rewards. Yes I try to accommodate but some of you questers (maybe you don't mean to) but sometimes you come across as kind of entitled.

I know that's probably not what people want to hear but then again I don't want to spend an extra 20 minutes chasing folks around in a dungeon and wondering why people keep dying because the team is not together. I'm there to be part of the solution, to help lead us to the solution not there to babysit or unpack whatever everyone's individual intentions are.

fizl101

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

fizl101 wrote: »

Major_Toughness wrote: »

Maybe all 3 of them wanted to speedrun and it is a democracy.

Then they could have said at the beginning

They DID say at the beginning, in response to the OP asking them to go slow so he could do the quest.
They told him they didn't want to wait.
He was the odd man out in that run; majority is the rule when you choose to play with John J. Rando.

Thats not quite the same as saying they want to get the speedrun, thats saying we aren't waiting we're off

wolfie1.0.

I personally consider not waiting for a person who has a quest in a normal dungeon to be rude, inconsiderate, entitlement, and elitism.

That said, it doesn't violate any rules or terms of service for all three of them to proceed as they want.

Best thing to do if you need a quest for the non dlc dungeons is to group up with people that also need the quests or are willing to wait for you and queue manually in.

I also feel that people wanting to speed run the dungeons do the same.

GuuMoonRyoung

The replies in this thread are reason enough for ZOS to come out and make a clear official statement regarding dungeon finder etiquette. I really hated how FF14 and then WoW and several other mmorpg devs came out and made solid statement about expected player behavior in dungeon. But now I can see why they did, ESO is one of the most horrendous place for new players to experience a dungeon and even for veteran players who just want to take it slow and easy and there is no solution in sight to this problem.

Bo0137

I actually see the opposite. I get in the instance, say hello to everyone, ask "speedrun?". Nobody says a single word. Then I proceed to dash to the objective bosses (I make sure I do the quest objectives even if no one says anything).

People will not type a single word in the chat. I'm absolutely ok if people don't want to speedrun. But then... say it.

I got kicked of a group recently in a situation like this. I present myself, say "speedrun?", nobody replies, I dash to the objectives and tell them "skip these, they are optional", they still don't answer; then I got kicked out of the dungeon by the final boss.

So yes some people are not polite. The chat is there to be used...

Vulkunne

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

I personally consider not waiting for a person who has a quest in a normal dungeon to be rude, inconsiderate, entitlement, and elitism.

That said, it doesn't violate any rules or terms of service for all three of them to proceed as they want.

Best thing to do if you need a quest for the non dlc dungeons is to group up with people that also need the quests or are willing to wait for you and queue manually in.

I also feel that people wanting to speed run the dungeons do the same.

I agree about the speed runners because they're not even gonna try to talk to anyone, they're just going to do whatever.

However, I would like to offer that I really wish people would not hold such a harsh attitude (going into these things) towards those of us who might have our own reasons for not wanting to wait for someone.

Its like we'll say this guy's name was, "Sal". So several times we had to wait for Sal, (they didn't communicate with us or nothing) and every boss fight it's like ok, "where is Sal?" You know, I look at the map and he's doing 'something' on the other side of the dungeon. And the way the paths are setup on some of these maps, I can't tell where Sal is or what this guys intentions are because he's doing his thing.

So I'm not "rude, inconsiderate, entitlement, and elitism" because Sal for one didn't communicate his intentions to anyone and two even if he did what if we can't wait? Right? It works both ways and not myself, not one other person is one of those adjectives you described us as being because we either don't know your intentions or don't share them as that being our reason for going there.

Its just something that can't always be helped and assuming a harrible opinion of others for not thinking the same is no way to run a group. That is against good morale and anyone who feels this way please avoid running with me and mine because like even when during a regular run, things are already hard enough and we don't need someone there who has already decided they're looking for trouble.

Sarannah

GuuMoonRyoung wrote: »

The replies in this thread are reason enough for ZOS to come out and make a clear official statement regarding dungeon finder etiquette. I really hated how FF14 and then WoW and several other mmorpg devs came out and made solid statement about expected player behavior in dungeon. But now I can see why they did, ESO is one of the most horrendous place for new players to experience a dungeon and even for veteran players who just want to take it slow and easy and there is no solution in sight to this problem.

ZOS doesn't just need to release a statement, they need to fix this issue in-game ASAP!

This is clear abuse of other players, and letting it go on will result in even less and less players queueing up and playing. There is a reason why other MMO's make the grouping experience more on-rails, so there can't be any abuse and everyone knows what they are getting.

As a tank main I loved doing dungeons with random strangers in any MMO I played, but right now I am not running any dungeons at all(even avoid them at all costs). I don't mind failing a dungeon or even a bad run, but I'm not going to play speedy gonzales on a heavy armor character while we never kill anything and I get no loot/rewards for anything while there is no actual groupplay or fun! And I'm not going to play a priest that has to continuously revive everyone because we have a fake healer. That is just not fun!

Fix this ZOS!! These speedrunner/fake role players are making a concious choice to abuse three other players every time they queue up/skip the line. It is a choice that they are doing this to other players, repeatedly!! Take this choice away from them! (personally I would perma ban them all, as I feel they have no rights to the rewards they are getting from doing this)

Just fix this!

PS: I want dungeons done fast too, but there is a clear difference between going fast and not killing anything while ignoring everyone fast.
PPS: For things like side bosses/leads/etc, players would/should need to communicate. For these things the groupfinder is actually good use.

Bo0137 wrote: »

I actually see the opposite. I get in the instance, say hello to everyone, ask "speedrun?". Nobody says a single word. Then I proceed to dash to the objective bosses (I make sure I do the quest objectives even if no one says anything).

People will not type a single word in the chat. I'm absolutely ok if people don't want to speedrun. But then... say it.

I got kicked of a group recently in a situation like this. I present myself, say "speedrun?", nobody replies, I dash to the objectives and tell them "skip these, they are optional", they still don't answer; then I got kicked out of the dungeon by the final boss.

So yes some people are not polite. The chat is there to be used...

Can remember that I have once been in a group with somebody that did that, and everyone agreed(including me, because the other three player were fine with it). So in those cases it is fine. The problem is, there is no way to stop someone who is forcing a speedrun or their fake role upon others. And that is what needs to be stopped by ZOS. I'd be fine with it if everyone who wanted to speedrun could still speedrun, just as long as they are not negatively impacting other players with it.

This is why I want a +3 companions random dungeonqueue that grants transmutes(as they are now), this way everyone can go at their own pace with companions(be it speedrun fast or story mode slow or anything in between). Or they can still choose to queue up to meet other players. Which I would mostly use as I like meeting other players.

But I also agree with you that many players do not communicate at all. Hardly anyone even says hi/hello anymore, which I always do. Not sure why this is, as my take on playing MMO's is always to have fun and to create good experiences/fun for others. Don't think this poor communication thing is linked to speedrunners/fake roles though.

spartaxoxo

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

fizl101 wrote: »

Major_Toughness wrote: »

Maybe all 3 of them wanted to speedrun and it is a democracy.

Then they could have said at the beginning

They DID say at the beginning, in response to the OP asking them to go slow so he could do the quest.
They told him they didn't want to wait.
He was the odd man out in that run; majority is the rule when you choose to play with John J. Rando.

They didn't say it at the beginning. They were ignored while someone rushed ahead. And then only after the run became frustrating enough to say something, did they tell him that they didn't have time and to get out of if they didn't like it.

Necrotech_Master

its part of the reason i dont usually queue with randoms for dungeons lol

my number 1 annoyance with randoms is speedsters

my number 2 annoyance is probably playing as a tank with a DPS who is spamming a taunt skill, when im clearly marked and geared as a tank lol

spartaxoxo

Vulkunne wrote: »

However, I would like to offer that I really wish people would not hold such a harsh attitude going in to these things towards those of us who might have our own reasons for not wanting to wait for someone.

I think someone who goes into a group activity without the time to be a team player or to accomplish the group's goals is being selfish. There is no I in team.

Wasting probably around 20 minutes of someone else's time because you joined a group activity without 1 minute to spare for the group's needs and decided that instead that only yours would be met is selfish in my book.

It's not my job to babysit someone who isn't communicating but if someone tells me they need the quest, I wait. I don't queue if I don't have time to do a dungeon.

I'm not saying someone doing that is generally like that or always like that. But it's a selfish action to decide the group's needs don't matter ahead of time in a group activity, which is what someone is doing when they queue for an activity they don't actually have the time to do.

ShatteredRose6

Guys guys guys, imagine waiting 30seconds for a random to pick up quest, I can't fathom the most important things we're gonna miss, we have to catch the new UFO sighting and achieve cosmic peace within 30seconds we saved.. SHEESHHHHHHHH

Cendrillion21

Dragonnord wrote: »

When I use the finder/random group instead of my friends or guilds, I expect nothing.

So I used that statement and I never get mad nor frustrated.
 

This.

It's ok to ask a group to wait for you, and I always will wait, but often the answer is a resounding NO. Leave room for that no and you won't be frustrated.

I try to avoid running with pugs entirely - static dungeon groups are the way to go.