Let us get companions easier on alts!

Erickson9610

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

If there was some way to justify Companions being unlocked account-wide without breaking the established rules, then I'd be all for it. Changing the way Companions work would please one demographic of players while bothering another demographic of players.

What would that justification be? Many supporting ideas have been given in this thread.

Basically this boils down to how many things in the game are: Because it is this way. Nothing should compel it and it adds minimal value. I would gladly give up any future option to run the unlock quest again if it removed the need to run it. That would likely be an account flag, but still useful. Plenty of other content to run if desired, at least for me.

What justification was made that didn't break the established idea that Companions are characters who need to meet the player character before helping them? To say that a Companion's introductory quest adds minimal value to who the Companions are as characters does them a disservice — but to say so about the Companions as assistants is accurate. In other words, their introductory quest is important for their character development, but there's no reason to run through that quest if all the player is really after is the Companion's combat ability.

In general, I think things should be allowed to change if the sole reason for them staying the same is that "it's always been this way". The reason I don't think Companions should be unlocked account-wide is not because "it's always been this way", but because the introductory quest serves a functional purpose in the Companion's character development, which may have minimal value to some people but not others.


To see if I've got all of the sides of the argument straight, here are some benefits of making Companion unlocks account-wide, and some benefits of keeping Companion unlocks character-specific:

• Account-Wide Companion Unlocks:
  • It saves time when trying to use Companions on alternate characters. It takes too long with character-specific Companion unlocks.
  • It's frustrating not being able to use something from the Collections menu when nearly everything else about Companions is account-wide.
  • Players want to use what they unlocked — it's pointless unlocking the same unlockable multiple times. The requirement to unlock Companions for each character can be considered just unnecessary busywork.
  • Players care about variety, especially since Companions only have one set of gear on them and only serve one role at a time, so unlocking just one isn't an option.
  • Some players don't care about the story and lose nothing from skipping the recruitment quest. It's also immersion-breaking to see many clones of the same character, so there's nothing to lose by foregoing the forced RP aspect.
  • Above all, players don't want to repeat the same quests over and over to use something they already unlocked on a different character.
• Character-Specific Companion Unlocks:
  • Players can maintain the RP of the Companion per-character. Some players treat Companions differently on different characters and have different relationship dynamics with them.
  • The immersion and questline of each Companion is preserved. There is no opportunity to complete their quests out of order, or bring them to meet themselves.
  • Companions are treated as characters, rather than as pets (or "Assistants"). A player character should have to meet these characters, rather than suddenly becoming their allies with no explanation.
  • Players should have to play the game to unlock things in it. Players don't actually need every Companion on every character.

Am I understanding this correctly? Some players want to unlock Companions account-wide because it'll save time, while others don't want to lose out on having per-character Companion relationships which start at the recruitment quest.

Proponents for Account-Wide Companion Unlocks suggest a method for choosing whether to skip the recruitment quest or just allowing players to use Companions before completing their recruitment quests, while opponents of Account-Wide Companion Unlocks argue that such changes wouldn't make sense thematically and — depending on how it's implemented — would present further technical issues, and might limit character-specific Companion functionality like rapport and questline progress.


I think that's what this boils down to. Convenience versus consistency. For gameplay purposes, it'd be much easier on players to get Companions on any character without needing to complete the quest for each one. For roleplay purposes, it makes more sense that player characters have to meet the Companion before the two have anything to do with one another.

Are the downsides of Account-Wide Companion Unlocks worth the tradeoff of being able to use any Companion sooner? And are the downsides of Character-Specific Companion Unlocks worth the tradeoff of the Companion's story making sense?

FlopsyPrince

All my characters know each other. So individualizing them, when they can be added to action bars, doesn't make sense.

Amottica

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

ZOS only cares about RP when they say they care about it and act on that.

You can take a Companion to the Coldharbour start/tutorial, so that violates your claim.

Who cares if you have the character when you run the start quest? You wouldn't have to run it again if it was account-wide. Not much loss there for almost all of us. Add a warning before using if you try to use them before running the unlock quest if vital.

The other concerns may bother some, but most of us just want to use what we have unlocked, like so many other things. Running through a quest 20+ times may not bother some of you, but it is annoying to many others. The 2 in Necrom are good examples. Their quests are not short nor that interesting to want to go through that many times.

It is amazing how much some will wish/command tedium on others for a tiny benefit otherwise. "It doesn't bother me personally so it must not be an issue for any other group of players."

I find it interesting that the focus in this thread is on the initial quest when the leveling process, per character, is much more significant. I am more interested in what takes days and weeks per character vs what takes minutes.

FlopsyPrince

Amottica wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

ZOS only cares about RP when they say they care about it and act on that.

You can take a Companion to the Coldharbour start/tutorial, so that violates your claim.

Who cares if you have the character when you run the start quest? You wouldn't have to run it again if it was account-wide. Not much loss there for almost all of us. Add a warning before using if you try to use them before running the unlock quest if vital.

The other concerns may bother some, but most of us just want to use what we have unlocked, like so many other things. Running through a quest 20+ times may not bother some of you, but it is annoying to many others. The 2 in Necrom are good examples. Their quests are not short nor that interesting to want to go through that many times.

It is amazing how much some will wish/command tedium on others for a tiny benefit otherwise. "It doesn't bother me personally so it must not be an issue for any other group of players."

I find it interesting that the focus in this thread is on the initial quest when the leveling process, per character, is much more significant. I am more interested in what takes days and weeks per character vs what takes minutes.

You are playing your character when leveling them. Though my leveling new characters is almost completely done now, just grinding out many things, companions being part of that. It may take less time, but it is a grind that does not add value.

And I say that as someone who have completed the main questline on Auridon and Alik'r on 40+ characters. At least I could go to another zone for those. And I get skill points.

I can slot companions on my wheel, but I cannot call them up until I run through the initial quests for them. Different issue. Grinding skillpoints is a pain too, but I will not pay Crowns to skip that. (Or whatever things I could pay Crowns to skip.)

I do get annoyed having a quest marker on some companions when I bring them out for the tiny 1 point gain when doing daily crafting, but I am mostly ignoring that so far. Collecting a ring of finding a mom multiple times also gets old.

I seem to have done 2 for Alkazandar (sp?) that seemed very similar, but I have only unlocked him on a single character, so perhaps he just has lots of echoes? The painfulness of getting him has kept me from finding him more, even though he is supposed to be the best Companion Tank.

Major_Toughness

Isn't it one quest to unlock a companion?

How does that need speeding up?

Necrotech_Master

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

What happens when you bring a Companion to unlock themselves? this portion of your quote doesnt matter, at all, its irrelevant

you go up to an alikr dolmen and immediately see 20 copies of your own companion, and yet the devs dont want your companion running into themselves so they force you to do the ridiculous story quest even though literally everywhere in the overland you can have your companion running into themselves, heck without a helmet we literally have "attack of the clone companions" and yet we cant skip the intro quest because of the same reason

It's really not that irrelevant. The nameplate above your Companions always shows their name, while the nameplate above other players' Companions always reads <playername's Companion>, implying that they are not the same character. This issue will diminish as more Companions are introduced, and players have more variety — it was particularly bad in the Blackwood Chapter because everyone either had Mirri or Bastian, but nowadays we have 6 different choices. It would help to be able to equip helmets on our Companions, but that's a different topic altogether.

In essence, it's just a coincidence that other players have a Companion who looks like one of the Companions you've met. The reason we can't bring Companions into their own recruitment quests is because there would be two characters with the same nameplate — the same exact name — and that's an inconsistency ZOS would like to avoid.

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

a lot of those are pure RP reasons, i could care less how the companion comes to travel to me, i unlocked the companion, now i want to be able to use the companion on more than just that 1 character, thats why i bothered to unlock it

ZOS cares a lot about RP reasons. They have emphasized the importance of the introductory quest in the Companions Q&A:

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Q: why are companions account wide unlocks (collection menu) but still required to be unlocked per character?
Why are the unlock quests getting significantly longer if we are required to unlock it per character? or can we get some way to bypass them if we have already unlocked them?

PD: This ties back into potential issues of bringing Mirri to unlock Mirri, but also, we know many players establish different relationship dynamics with their companions on a per character basis and the introductory quest is a key part of that, so at this time there are no plans to change that.
On the story side, there hasn't been any mandate or push to make these quests longer. The stories we want to tell are the determining factor. This is great feedback though and something we will make sure to take into account going forward.

***

I've proposed some alternative solutions to this problem, such as a stripped-down "Assistant" version of a Companion who doesn't have any per-character relationships for players who just want a quick and easy follower for combat purposes, or ZOS introducing more Companions who are much quicker to unlock. I've also listed out several technical and thematic challenges with making Companions account-wide.

Unless there's some clever way to maintain the RP while making it easier to unlock the Companions, ZOS will likely keep existing Companions as-is.

for the first point, it doesnt matter what the nameplate says, they clearly 100% look identical, because 1) we cant hide their heads and 2) everyone knows its mirri (for example), even if the nameplate doesnt specifically say so

if we could hide their heads and actually give them fully unique outfits, yes then i would agree they would appear as distinct characters, but a nameplate change does not change the character because of the look, i know its mirri following another player even if it doesnt say so. again, ill state my point, the companions are running into themselves all the time

if we could put a hat or helmet on them, then yes, i could much more easily see that they could be viewed as different characters, and could truly be counted as distinct, but the devs caught themselves in a catch 22, they dont want to let us hide their heads, yet at the same time want each players companion to be "distinct" from your own companion, just changing the nameplate does not make that happen, idk how many players even have the full nameplate turned on most of the time

for your other point about the intro quests, i know, i asked that question and was immensely disappointed with the half response, we literally run into other mirris following other players, i dont see why its different taking the companion on their own intro quest

it literally does not affect rapport, every character starts with the same initial rapport on a companion, regardless which choices you made in the intro, i never said i wanted or cared about rapport being account wide, so you could still have differing relationships between characters

im only asking for simplifying the unlock process so that after enjoying the intro quest once we dont have to suffer through it potentially another 19+ times just to use something we already unlocked, its not handing it to us, we did the quest, repeating the quest makes absolutely 0 difference on anything except a completely unfriendly user experience and a massive waste of time

if the devs really want to push forward with making unlocking companions as painful as possible by not even giving us a "skip" option, then i wont really bother gearing up future companions, it will be max rapport, max level, unlock keepsake, and then never touch them again, no matter how interesting the character is. i really would like to use more varied companions, but with how annoying it is to use them right now and continuing in the future, they are going to be relegated to a passive bonus and thats it

FlopsyPrince

Major_Toughness wrote: »

Isn't it one quest to unlock a companion?

How does that need speeding up?

Try doing it for all 6 companions on 20+ alts.

That is the problem, not doing a single one on a single character. The repetition gets old quite quickly, especially with the last 2 which are much more of a pain.

Elvenheart

Elyu wrote: »

100% agree.

Think the solution is simple (same as suggested by others above).

Companions, once unlocked, are available in the collections menu.

Your unlocked collectables are available account-wide....except companions, making them the odd one out.

So:

Once a companion in unlocked by one character, and thus in your collections book - opening the collections menu on another character and selecting the unlocked companion brings up a dialogue box, allowing you to either:
1) Start the intro quest on current character (blocking summoning of that companion until while intro quest is active)
or
2) Unlock companion for current character (either perma-locks intro quest, or auto-completes intro quest, not sure which would be easier to implement)

Then proceed as system exists in base game

P.S. Allow the crafting system to interact with companion gear in some way! Or at the very least add some more specific ways to obtain companion gear than random drops!
Also also: Let companions level from quest exp too!

This is always what I have thought it should be. After the companion is first unlocked by a character on an account, subsequent characters on that account should have the choice to do the intro quest or auto complete the intro quest. This way, everyone would be happy.

Gaebriel0410

I would love it if you could choose to skip the companions' intro quests, after unlocking them as a house guest on one character.

Companions are mostly fun to level or run around with, and I think players should at least have the option to easily do that on new characters. While the questlines are great, doing it on all your alts is tedious, I am deffo not a completionist but I like having a variety of companions available for everyone.

As a roleplayer myself, I think it has absolutely nothing to do with roleplay, immersion, character story, character vs player or inconsistency. You can already skip the intro questline for new characters, and the intro questline for Cyrodiil too.

In my experience players just tend to quote lore to make their opinions sound like they have more weight behind them, much in the same way as you often see people go "a lot of players agree with me / the majority of the playerbase", to make it sound like they speak on behalf of a crowd.

If you are a roleplayer, you can easily pretend you met the companion somewhere else. I do it all the time whenever a quest requires me to do something one of my characters never would, or to go to places my character would never go.
Then again, I do not treat my character as the character that has done everything in the game, as that would be ridiculously overpowered for one hero to achieve. Rather, I treat it like a storybook or tales of adventures, that have been done "for real" by various characters across the world.

Erickson9610

A considerable portion of my concerns with allowing Companions to be unlocked account-wide is that there are technical challenges associated with it.

Though, the most reasonable way to allow Companions to be unlocked account-wide would be to allow players to skip the introductory quest, which avoids the issue of bringing the Companion to meet themselves and completing their quests out of order. Sure, there's the problem about how the player would get to know all that has happened in the quest they skipped, but a more pressing problem is how players would skip the quest in the first place.

Would players be given the prompt to complete the quest directly from the Collections menu? If so, that would enable anyone to complete any Companion's quest and receive XP for merely interacting with a menu. Maybe this runs into the issue of allowing players to recruit Companions from DLC zones the player no longer has access to. I'd imagine if a Companion is normally recruited in a DLC zone, players would need to have current access to that DLC to unlock them.

Alternatively, maybe players would be required to go up to the Companion in the world, and be given an alternative dialogue option to skip to the end of their quest. This avoids the potential issue of allowing players to get XP from the menu, and players will have to go to the zone in which the Companion resides, avoiding the issue of players bypassing the DLC requirements to meet the Companion. This, however, requires a bit more effort than recruiting from the Collections menu, because players would need to visit the zone and talk to the Companion directly.

Again, if Companions were made unlockable account-wide, there would need to be some way to skip (or complete) their recruitment quest before being able to summon them.

Gaebriel0410

Yep, that is why I thought that having unlocked them as house guests on one character would be a good requirement.

That way players can either do the quests as normal, or go to their own house to place and talk to the house guest version of the companion, which then gives a dialogue option to skip their intro. No confusion or troubles.

Erickson9610

Gaebriel0410 wrote: »

Yep, that is why I thought that having unlocked them as house guests on one character would be a good requirement.

That way players can either do the quests as normal, or go to their own house to place and talk to the house guest version of the companion, which then gives a dialogue option to skip their intro. No confusion or troubles.

That's a clever idea. If ZOS implements a way to skip the Companion intros on new characters, I hope they use this approach.

Necrotech_Master

Erickson9610 wrote: »

A considerable portion of my concerns with allowing Companions to be unlocked account-wide is that there are technical challenges associated with it.

Though, the most reasonable way to allow Companions to be unlocked account-wide would be to allow players to skip the introductory quest, which avoids the issue of bringing the Companion to meet themselves and completing their quests out of order. Sure, there's the problem about how the player would get to know all that has happened in the quest they skipped, but a more pressing problem is how players would skip the quest in the first place.

Would players be given the prompt to complete the quest directly from the Collections menu? If so, that would enable anyone to complete any Companion's quest and receive XP for merely interacting with a menu. Maybe this runs into the issue of allowing players to recruit Companions from DLC zones the player no longer has access to. I'd imagine if a Companion is normally recruited in a DLC zone, players would need to have current access to that DLC to unlock them.

Alternatively, maybe players would be required to go up to the Companion in the world, and be given an alternative dialogue option to skip to the end of their quest. This avoids the potential issue of allowing players to get XP from the menu, and players will have to go to the zone in which the Companion resides, avoiding the issue of players bypassing the DLC requirements to meet the Companion. This, however, requires a bit more effort than recruiting from the Collections menu, because players would need to visit the zone and talk to the Companion directly.

Again, if Companions were made unlockable account-wide, there would need to be some way to skip (or complete) their recruitment quest before being able to summon them.

it would be just like the tribute tutorial

you still have to physically go and talk to braghas but then you can just say "i already know what im doing" and your done, no need to do the whole intro quest, same for cyro intro

thats what i want for companions, if i could just go to the location and in the dialog select the option to "skip quest" it would just auto complete from there, literally no technical hurdles or anything, they literally already do this in game for other quests

that is literally all im asking for in regards to companions at a minimum, allowing us to skip the intro quest if we have already done it, if all i have to do is travel to the location to use the dialog option of "skip" that im OK with, it would take 5-10 min tops to unlock all of the companions, not 10+ min per companion

SaffronCitrusflower

Companions should go with your account, not with individual toons.

redlink1979

The "solution" to this "problem", if it ever happens, will be monetized. So, prepare your wallets.

zaria

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

A considerable portion of my concerns with allowing Companions to be unlocked account-wide is that there are technical challenges associated with it.

Though, the most reasonable way to allow Companions to be unlocked account-wide would be to allow players to skip the introductory quest, which avoids the issue of bringing the Companion to meet themselves and completing their quests out of order. Sure, there's the problem about how the player would get to know all that has happened in the quest they skipped, but a more pressing problem is how players would skip the quest in the first place.

Would players be given the prompt to complete the quest directly from the Collections menu? If so, that would enable anyone to complete any Companion's quest and receive XP for merely interacting with a menu. Maybe this runs into the issue of allowing players to recruit Companions from DLC zones the player no longer has access to. I'd imagine if a Companion is normally recruited in a DLC zone, players would need to have current access to that DLC to unlock them.

Alternatively, maybe players would be required to go up to the Companion in the world, and be given an alternative dialogue option to skip to the end of their quest. This avoids the potential issue of allowing players to get XP from the menu, and players will have to go to the zone in which the Companion resides, avoiding the issue of players bypassing the DLC requirements to meet the Companion. This, however, requires a bit more effort than recruiting from the Collections menu, because players would need to visit the zone and talk to the Companion directly.

Again, if Companions were made unlockable account-wide, there would need to be some way to skip (or complete) their recruitment quest before being able to summon them.

it would be just like the tribute tutorial

you still have to physically go and talk to braghas but then you can just say "i already know what im doing" and your done, no need to do the whole intro quest, same for cyro intro

thats what i want for companions, if i could just go to the location and in the dialog select the option to "skip quest" it would just auto complete from there, literally no technical hurdles or anything, they literally already do this in game for other quests

that is literally all im asking for in regards to companions at a minimum, allowing us to skip the intro quest if we have already done it, if all i have to do is travel to the location to use the dialog option of "skip" that im OK with, it would take 5-10 min tops to unlock all of the companions, not 10+ min per companion

I agree, also the quests for the two newest one is long, Isobel's quest is also pretty long, Ember has an short one who is also funny.
And your idea would solve the problem. Add an option to skip and get them at once on alts.

zaria

redlink1979 wrote: »

The "solution" to this "problem", if it ever happens, will be monetized. So, prepare your wallets.

I see this being likely like skyshards are handled.

ADarklore

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Major_Toughness wrote: »

Isn't it one quest to unlock a companion?

How does that need speeding up?

Try doing it for all 6 companions on 20+ alts.

That is the problem, not doing a single one on a single character. The repetition gets old quite quickly, especially with the last 2 which are much more of a pain.

You mean to tell me you just created 20 alts and are now doing the intro quest for six companions at the same time on all of them? Because in reality, unless you've been away from the game since they introduced companions, chances are, you've leveled up TWO companions per year per alt. For new characters, you would run all six intro quests, which as I started before, can be done in less than 90 minutes if you are familiar with the quests- a bit longer if it's your first time.

So IMO you are arguing a point that is pretty much non-existent because most players don't create 20 alts at the same time. Thus, this December when the two new companions are released, I'll level them up on all my alts... and then focus on leveling them up via my main. So at that point, I'll be doing the intro quest for two companions on 20 alts.

As far as the GRIND to unlock all of them, this is an MMO after all and some grinding should be considered a norm.

FlopsyPrince

ADarklore wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Major_Toughness wrote: »

Isn't it one quest to unlock a companion?

How does that need speeding up?

Try doing it for all 6 companions on 20+ alts.

That is the problem, not doing a single one on a single character. The repetition gets old quite quickly, especially with the last 2 which are much more of a pain.

You mean to tell me you just created 20 alts and are now doing the intro quest for six companions at the same time on all of them? Because in reality, unless you've been away from the game since they introduced companions, chances are, you've leveled up TWO companions per year per alt. For new characters, you would run all six intro quests, which as I started before, can be done in less than 90 minutes if you are familiar with the quests- a bit longer if it's your first time.

So IMO you are arguing a point that is pretty much non-existent because most players don't create 20 alts at the same time. Thus, this December when the two new companions are released, I'll level them up on all my alts... and then focus on leveling them up via my main. So at that point, I'll be doing the intro quest for two companions on 20 alts.

As far as the GRIND to unlock all of them, this is an MMO after all and some grinding should be considered a norm.

No, I mean I have 60+ characters over 4 servers. Some have the Companions, some do not. My PS5 ones did not have any of the High Isle plus ones (nor Necrom). Some of them have the first 4 now, many do not. Only 1 character (my main on PC-NA) has the 2 Necrom ones since the intro quest is far more of a pain.

I have been working on almost all these alts for years but still need many things including Skyshards. All are Level 50 / CP160+.

My point is certainly not non-existent as I face a huge hill of work to get them on all my alts, which I would prefer so I can use them wherever, not just on certain characters.

This is a forced repetition that adds no value.

zaria wrote: »

redlink1979 wrote: »

The "solution" to this "problem", if it ever happens, will be monetized. So, prepare your wallets.

I see this being likely like skyshards are handled.

While likely, it would be very annoying, just like the Skyshards offering was. I have put a substantial amount of real dollars into Crowns, but I will not spend them on skyshards (nor animations for that matter).

Necrotech_Master

ADarklore wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Major_Toughness wrote: »

Isn't it one quest to unlock a companion?

How does that need speeding up?

Try doing it for all 6 companions on 20+ alts.

That is the problem, not doing a single one on a single character. The repetition gets old quite quickly, especially with the last 2 which are much more of a pain.

You mean to tell me you just created 20 alts and are now doing the intro quest for six companions at the same time on all of them? Because in reality, unless you've been away from the game since they introduced companions, chances are, you've leveled up TWO companions per year per alt. For new characters, you would run all six intro quests, which as I started before, can be done in less than 90 minutes if you are familiar with the quests- a bit longer if it's your first time.

So IMO you are arguing a point that is pretty much non-existent because most players don't create 20 alts at the same time. Thus, this December when the two new companions are released, I'll level them up on all my alts... and then focus on leveling them up via my main. So at that point, I'll be doing the intro quest for two companions on 20 alts.

As far as the GRIND to unlock all of them, this is an MMO after all and some grinding should be considered a norm.

i have 11 characters right now (the newest being arcanist)

so when necrom released i only had to do 10 characters for the 2 new companions, and then all 6 for the arcanist

but i hated repeating mirris and bastians quests, i hated repeating isobel and embers quests, and after doing the 2 necrom companions i was like this is getting ridiculous, and only have the necrom ones on 3 characters

my arcanist that i started a few months after necrom, only has 3 of the companions unlocked (bastian, isobel, and ember)

so by the time the necrom companions came out, the ridiculously long intro quests put me off entirely on redoing them more than necessary, i was thinking "well all of my toons will just get the passive bonus from the keepsake anyway, so why both wasting my time anymore repeating these quests?"

the next companions that come out will only be unlocked on 2 characters, my main (for the story and rapport), and a dps which i will use to powerlevel them to 20 and then they will be virtually unused for the rest of their existence on my account

FlopsyPrince

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Major_Toughness wrote: »

Isn't it one quest to unlock a companion?

How does that need speeding up?

Try doing it for all 6 companions on 20+ alts.

That is the problem, not doing a single one on a single character. The repetition gets old quite quickly, especially with the last 2 which are much more of a pain.

You mean to tell me you just created 20 alts and are now doing the intro quest for six companions at the same time on all of them? Because in reality, unless you've been away from the game since they introduced companions, chances are, you've leveled up TWO companions per year per alt. For new characters, you would run all six intro quests, which as I started before, can be done in less than 90 minutes if you are familiar with the quests- a bit longer if it's your first time.

So IMO you are arguing a point that is pretty much non-existent because most players don't create 20 alts at the same time. Thus, this December when the two new companions are released, I'll level them up on all my alts... and then focus on leveling them up via my main. So at that point, I'll be doing the intro quest for two companions on 20 alts.

As far as the GRIND to unlock all of them, this is an MMO after all and some grinding should be considered a norm.

i have 11 characters right now (the newest being arcanist)

so when necrom released i only had to do 10 characters for the 2 new companions, and then all 6 for the arcanist

but i hated repeating mirris and bastians quests, i hated repeating isobel and embers quests, and after doing the 2 necrom companions i was like this is getting ridiculous, and only have the necrom ones on 3 characters

my arcanist that i started a few months after necrom, only has 3 of the companions unlocked (bastian, isobel, and ember)

so by the time the necrom companions came out, the ridiculously long intro quests put me off entirely on redoing them more than necessary, i was thinking "well all of my toons will just get the passive bonus from the keepsake anyway, so why both wasting my time anymore repeating these quests?"

the next companions that come out will only be unlocked on 2 characters, my main (for the story and rapport), and a dps which i will use to powerlevel them to 20 and then they will be virtually unused for the rest of their existence on my account

Also note that the game still has plenty of grind. Appropriate grind is OK, but some grinds should be eliminated. Fishing would be a good example. Making it account-wide made it better for most of us.

Want a grind? Unlock top Legendermain on a bunch of alts!

FlopsyPrince

Note that a grind will always exist for almost all players.

Being alt-friendly is much more important for many of us.

I remember the reason I left Warcraft at the end of Mists was that the grind was getting old there. Not that it is perfect here or in other games, but I would really appreciate it if ZOS made it appropriate and refined!

peacenote

I've suggested this before, but in my opinion the perfect solution would be to fully leverage both sides of the logic that AwA gave us (as much as I hated its implementation).

Like other collectibles, the companions should be account-wide. If you've unlocked them, you should be able to summon them again on other characters. Like the bankers and whatnot. Since we've broken the wall with AwA by saying "these achievements have been done on your account" instead of per character, why is it such a stretch to pretend that the companions, on other characters, are just mercenaries for hire? Their rapport should be set at neutral... and stuck there.

Then, it could be the case that we'd have to complete the quest to unlock rapport building. This is because some people like to repeat the quests and like being able to have the individual relationships per character. Why should they have to lose this for others to gain convenience? Everyone can win! Perhaps if you don't do the quest, you can't change the armor or level them either. This way, if you're just using them as tools, they are set up to be pulled out to help, but if you want to individualize them you need to make them "full" companions.

As far as the issue with "the companion can't be out to unlock their own quest"... what a SILLY reason. First of all, we know the game has the technology to show a generic NPC when grouped people are questing. There has to be a way to easily tweak this so if a companion is out and the quest is in your quest log it doesn't come out, or something. But even if it's REALLY difficult, I can't even tell you how many times I've unlocked a companion while someone else was doing it right next to me, or finished before me, such that there were multiple Mirris or Embers to be seen while going through the quest line. This game has tons of issues like this, to the point where I think the horse has left the barn already, and it is something people should be willing to tolerate for the sake of a compromise that would otherwise make both sides happy and leave both options. But, what do I know?

Necrotech_Master

peacenote wrote: »

I've suggested this before, but in my opinion the perfect solution would be to fully leverage both sides of the logic that AwA gave us (as much as I hated its implementation).

Like other collectibles, the companions should be account-wide. If you've unlocked them, you should be able to summon them again on other characters. Like the bankers and whatnot. Since we've broken the wall with AwA by saying "these achievements have been done on your account" instead of per character, why is it such a stretch to pretend that the companions, on other characters, are just mercenaries for hire? Their rapport should be set at neutral... and stuck there.

Then, it could be the case that we'd have to complete the quest to unlock rapport building. This is because some people like to repeat the quests and like being able to have the individual relationships per character. Why should they have to lose this for others to gain convenience? Everyone can win! Perhaps if you don't do the quest, you can't change the armor or level them either. This way, if you're just using them as tools, they are set up to be pulled out to help, but if you want to individualize them you need to make them "full" companions.

As far as the issue with "the companion can't be out to unlock their own quest"... what a SILLY reason. First of all, we know the game has the technology to show a generic NPC when grouped people are questing. There has to be a way to easily tweak this so if a companion is out and the quest is in your quest log it doesn't come out, or something. But even if it's REALLY difficult, I can't even tell you how many times I've unlocked a companion while someone else was doing it right next to me, or finished before me, such that there were multiple Mirris or Embers to be seen while going through the quest line. This game has tons of issues like this, to the point where I think the horse has left the barn already, and it is something people should be willing to tolerate for the sake of a compromise that would otherwise make both sides happy and leave both options. But, what do I know?

i actually kind of like the idea of the rapport being locked at starting defaults unless you do the quest, then on my other characters that i dont care about the rapport, i wouldnt have to deal with the constant quest marker, or the quest taking up journal space without needing to do it

and your thoughts on the "companion cant be out for their own quest" reflect my own, its a nonsense reason considering all of the other locations in game that you can have multiples of companions out (such as a dolmen, or other world event), and compounded by the fact we cant even give the companions headgear to actually differentiate them from another players companion

FlopsyPrince

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

peacenote wrote: »

I've suggested this before, but in my opinion the perfect solution would be to fully leverage both sides of the logic that AwA gave us (as much as I hated its implementation).

Like other collectibles, the companions should be account-wide. If you've unlocked them, you should be able to summon them again on other characters. Like the bankers and whatnot. Since we've broken the wall with AwA by saying "these achievements have been done on your account" instead of per character, why is it such a stretch to pretend that the companions, on other characters, are just mercenaries for hire? Their rapport should be set at neutral... and stuck there.

Then, it could be the case that we'd have to complete the quest to unlock rapport building. This is because some people like to repeat the quests and like being able to have the individual relationships per character. Why should they have to lose this for others to gain convenience? Everyone can win! Perhaps if you don't do the quest, you can't change the armor or level them either. This way, if you're just using them as tools, they are set up to be pulled out to help, but if you want to individualize them you need to make them "full" companions.

As far as the issue with "the companion can't be out to unlock their own quest"... what a SILLY reason. First of all, we know the game has the technology to show a generic NPC when grouped people are questing. There has to be a way to easily tweak this so if a companion is out and the quest is in your quest log it doesn't come out, or something. But even if it's REALLY difficult, I can't even tell you how many times I've unlocked a companion while someone else was doing it right next to me, or finished before me, such that there were multiple Mirris or Embers to be seen while going through the quest line. This game has tons of issues like this, to the point where I think the horse has left the barn already, and it is something people should be willing to tolerate for the sake of a compromise that would otherwise make both sides happy and leave both options. But, what do I know?

i actually kind of like the idea of the rapport being locked at starting defaults unless you do the quest, then on my other characters that i dont care about the rapport, i wouldnt have to deal with the constant quest marker, or the quest taking up journal space without needing to do it

and your thoughts on the "companion cant be out for their own quest" reflect my own, its a nonsense reason considering all of the other locations in game that you can have multiples of companions out (such as a dolmen, or other world event), and compounded by the fact we cant even give the companions headgear to actually differentiate them from another players companion

I try to push it up, even 1 point at a time, when I can. Though Mirri and her anti-bug stance hinders that since torchbugs pop out frequently when I am selecting something else!

I will clearly live with the way it is until they hopefully enable it account-wide (even though that is a misnomer since my account (properly linked too!) is different in 4 places!)

Necrotech_Master

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

peacenote wrote: »

I've suggested this before, but in my opinion the perfect solution would be to fully leverage both sides of the logic that AwA gave us (as much as I hated its implementation).

Like other collectibles, the companions should be account-wide. If you've unlocked them, you should be able to summon them again on other characters. Like the bankers and whatnot. Since we've broken the wall with AwA by saying "these achievements have been done on your account" instead of per character, why is it such a stretch to pretend that the companions, on other characters, are just mercenaries for hire? Their rapport should be set at neutral... and stuck there.

Then, it could be the case that we'd have to complete the quest to unlock rapport building. This is because some people like to repeat the quests and like being able to have the individual relationships per character. Why should they have to lose this for others to gain convenience? Everyone can win! Perhaps if you don't do the quest, you can't change the armor or level them either. This way, if you're just using them as tools, they are set up to be pulled out to help, but if you want to individualize them you need to make them "full" companions.

As far as the issue with "the companion can't be out to unlock their own quest"... what a SILLY reason. First of all, we know the game has the technology to show a generic NPC when grouped people are questing. There has to be a way to easily tweak this so if a companion is out and the quest is in your quest log it doesn't come out, or something. But even if it's REALLY difficult, I can't even tell you how many times I've unlocked a companion while someone else was doing it right next to me, or finished before me, such that there were multiple Mirris or Embers to be seen while going through the quest line. This game has tons of issues like this, to the point where I think the horse has left the barn already, and it is something people should be willing to tolerate for the sake of a compromise that would otherwise make both sides happy and leave both options. But, what do I know?

i actually kind of like the idea of the rapport being locked at starting defaults unless you do the quest, then on my other characters that i dont care about the rapport, i wouldnt have to deal with the constant quest marker, or the quest taking up journal space without needing to do it

and your thoughts on the "companion cant be out for their own quest" reflect my own, its a nonsense reason considering all of the other locations in game that you can have multiples of companions out (such as a dolmen, or other world event), and compounded by the fact we cant even give the companions headgear to actually differentiate them from another players companion

I try to push it up, even 1 point at a time, when I can. Though Mirri and her anti-bug stance hinders that since torchbugs pop out frequently when I am selecting something else!

I will clearly live with the way it is until they hopefully enable it account-wide (even though that is a misnomer since my account (properly linked too!) is different in 4 places!)

ive only ever really bothered with rapport on my main, because the only reason to do it at all is for the keepsake

my other characters have never focused on raising it, but it raises anyway generally as positive sources outweigh negative ones

the problem i have with the rapport specifically is when you hit the first tier for the companion quest

1. the quest marker will always be active until picked up
2. the companion menu cannot be used at all until you pick it up
3. if you dont want to do the quest, your first option is to waste a quest slot holding it
4. another option for not doing the quest means the quest marker is going to be over them all the time, and blocks the companion menu

if you abandon the quest, then the marker just shows back up over them and again blocks the companion menu, so you have to deal with one or the other if you dont want to do the rapport quest again

FlopsyPrince

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

peacenote wrote: »

I've suggested this before, but in my opinion the perfect solution would be to fully leverage both sides of the logic that AwA gave us (as much as I hated its implementation).

Like other collectibles, the companions should be account-wide. If you've unlocked them, you should be able to summon them again on other characters. Like the bankers and whatnot. Since we've broken the wall with AwA by saying "these achievements have been done on your account" instead of per character, why is it such a stretch to pretend that the companions, on other characters, are just mercenaries for hire? Their rapport should be set at neutral... and stuck there.

Then, it could be the case that we'd have to complete the quest to unlock rapport building. This is because some people like to repeat the quests and like being able to have the individual relationships per character. Why should they have to lose this for others to gain convenience? Everyone can win! Perhaps if you don't do the quest, you can't change the armor or level them either. This way, if you're just using them as tools, they are set up to be pulled out to help, but if you want to individualize them you need to make them "full" companions.

As far as the issue with "the companion can't be out to unlock their own quest"... what a SILLY reason. First of all, we know the game has the technology to show a generic NPC when grouped people are questing. There has to be a way to easily tweak this so if a companion is out and the quest is in your quest log it doesn't come out, or something. But even if it's REALLY difficult, I can't even tell you how many times I've unlocked a companion while someone else was doing it right next to me, or finished before me, such that there were multiple Mirris or Embers to be seen while going through the quest line. This game has tons of issues like this, to the point where I think the horse has left the barn already, and it is something people should be willing to tolerate for the sake of a compromise that would otherwise make both sides happy and leave both options. But, what do I know?

i actually kind of like the idea of the rapport being locked at starting defaults unless you do the quest, then on my other characters that i dont care about the rapport, i wouldnt have to deal with the constant quest marker, or the quest taking up journal space without needing to do it

and your thoughts on the "companion cant be out for their own quest" reflect my own, its a nonsense reason considering all of the other locations in game that you can have multiples of companions out (such as a dolmen, or other world event), and compounded by the fact we cant even give the companions headgear to actually differentiate them from another players companion

I try to push it up, even 1 point at a time, when I can. Though Mirri and her anti-bug stance hinders that since torchbugs pop out frequently when I am selecting something else!

I will clearly live with the way it is until they hopefully enable it account-wide (even though that is a misnomer since my account (properly linked too!) is different in 4 places!)

ive only ever really bothered with rapport on my main, because the only reason to do it at all is for the keepsake

my other characters have never focused on raising it, but it raises anyway generally as positive sources outweigh negative ones

the problem i have with the rapport specifically is when you hit the first tier for the companion quest

1. the quest marker will always be active until picked up
2. the companion menu cannot be used at all until you pick it up
3. if you dont want to do the quest, your first option is to waste a quest slot holding it
4. another option for not doing the quest means the quest marker is going to be over them all the time, and blocks the companion menu

if you abandon the quest, then the marker just shows back up over them and again blocks the companion menu, so you have to deal with one or the other if you dont want to do the rapport quest again

Working around this would be quite nice for altoholics!

Necrotech_Master

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

peacenote wrote: »

I've suggested this before, but in my opinion the perfect solution would be to fully leverage both sides of the logic that AwA gave us (as much as I hated its implementation).

Like other collectibles, the companions should be account-wide. If you've unlocked them, you should be able to summon them again on other characters. Like the bankers and whatnot. Since we've broken the wall with AwA by saying "these achievements have been done on your account" instead of per character, why is it such a stretch to pretend that the companions, on other characters, are just mercenaries for hire? Their rapport should be set at neutral... and stuck there.

Then, it could be the case that we'd have to complete the quest to unlock rapport building. This is because some people like to repeat the quests and like being able to have the individual relationships per character. Why should they have to lose this for others to gain convenience? Everyone can win! Perhaps if you don't do the quest, you can't change the armor or level them either. This way, if you're just using them as tools, they are set up to be pulled out to help, but if you want to individualize them you need to make them "full" companions.

As far as the issue with "the companion can't be out to unlock their own quest"... what a SILLY reason. First of all, we know the game has the technology to show a generic NPC when grouped people are questing. There has to be a way to easily tweak this so if a companion is out and the quest is in your quest log it doesn't come out, or something. But even if it's REALLY difficult, I can't even tell you how many times I've unlocked a companion while someone else was doing it right next to me, or finished before me, such that there were multiple Mirris or Embers to be seen while going through the quest line. This game has tons of issues like this, to the point where I think the horse has left the barn already, and it is something people should be willing to tolerate for the sake of a compromise that would otherwise make both sides happy and leave both options. But, what do I know?

i actually kind of like the idea of the rapport being locked at starting defaults unless you do the quest, then on my other characters that i dont care about the rapport, i wouldnt have to deal with the constant quest marker, or the quest taking up journal space without needing to do it

and your thoughts on the "companion cant be out for their own quest" reflect my own, its a nonsense reason considering all of the other locations in game that you can have multiples of companions out (such as a dolmen, or other world event), and compounded by the fact we cant even give the companions headgear to actually differentiate them from another players companion

I try to push it up, even 1 point at a time, when I can. Though Mirri and her anti-bug stance hinders that since torchbugs pop out frequently when I am selecting something else!

I will clearly live with the way it is until they hopefully enable it account-wide (even though that is a misnomer since my account (properly linked too!) is different in 4 places!)

ive only ever really bothered with rapport on my main, because the only reason to do it at all is for the keepsake

my other characters have never focused on raising it, but it raises anyway generally as positive sources outweigh negative ones

the problem i have with the rapport specifically is when you hit the first tier for the companion quest

1. the quest marker will always be active until picked up
2. the companion menu cannot be used at all until you pick it up
3. if you dont want to do the quest, your first option is to waste a quest slot holding it
4. another option for not doing the quest means the quest marker is going to be over them all the time, and blocks the companion menu

if you abandon the quest, then the marker just shows back up over them and again blocks the companion menu, so you have to deal with one or the other if you dont want to do the rapport quest again

Working around this would be quite nice for altoholics!

the main problem with making rapport account wide is then you could never repeat those quests, and im sure there are people who would want that

so ill take any kind of QoL middle ground that makes it less of a hassle to deal with without limiting the option to do it again for those who choose

FlopsyPrince

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

peacenote wrote: »

I've suggested this before, but in my opinion the perfect solution would be to fully leverage both sides of the logic that AwA gave us (as much as I hated its implementation).

Like other collectibles, the companions should be account-wide. If you've unlocked them, you should be able to summon them again on other characters. Like the bankers and whatnot. Since we've broken the wall with AwA by saying "these achievements have been done on your account" instead of per character, why is it such a stretch to pretend that the companions, on other characters, are just mercenaries for hire? Their rapport should be set at neutral... and stuck there.

Then, it could be the case that we'd have to complete the quest to unlock rapport building. This is because some people like to repeat the quests and like being able to have the individual relationships per character. Why should they have to lose this for others to gain convenience? Everyone can win! Perhaps if you don't do the quest, you can't change the armor or level them either. This way, if you're just using them as tools, they are set up to be pulled out to help, but if you want to individualize them you need to make them "full" companions.

As far as the issue with "the companion can't be out to unlock their own quest"... what a SILLY reason. First of all, we know the game has the technology to show a generic NPC when grouped people are questing. There has to be a way to easily tweak this so if a companion is out and the quest is in your quest log it doesn't come out, or something. But even if it's REALLY difficult, I can't even tell you how many times I've unlocked a companion while someone else was doing it right next to me, or finished before me, such that there were multiple Mirris or Embers to be seen while going through the quest line. This game has tons of issues like this, to the point where I think the horse has left the barn already, and it is something people should be willing to tolerate for the sake of a compromise that would otherwise make both sides happy and leave both options. But, what do I know?

i actually kind of like the idea of the rapport being locked at starting defaults unless you do the quest, then on my other characters that i dont care about the rapport, i wouldnt have to deal with the constant quest marker, or the quest taking up journal space without needing to do it

and your thoughts on the "companion cant be out for their own quest" reflect my own, its a nonsense reason considering all of the other locations in game that you can have multiples of companions out (such as a dolmen, or other world event), and compounded by the fact we cant even give the companions headgear to actually differentiate them from another players companion

I try to push it up, even 1 point at a time, when I can. Though Mirri and her anti-bug stance hinders that since torchbugs pop out frequently when I am selecting something else!

I will clearly live with the way it is until they hopefully enable it account-wide (even though that is a misnomer since my account (properly linked too!) is different in 4 places!)

ive only ever really bothered with rapport on my main, because the only reason to do it at all is for the keepsake

my other characters have never focused on raising it, but it raises anyway generally as positive sources outweigh negative ones

the problem i have with the rapport specifically is when you hit the first tier for the companion quest

1. the quest marker will always be active until picked up
2. the companion menu cannot be used at all until you pick it up
3. if you dont want to do the quest, your first option is to waste a quest slot holding it
4. another option for not doing the quest means the quest marker is going to be over them all the time, and blocks the companion menu

if you abandon the quest, then the marker just shows back up over them and again blocks the companion menu, so you have to deal with one or the other if you dont want to do the rapport quest again

Working around this would be quite nice for altoholics!

the main problem with making rapport account wide is then you could never repeat those quests, and im sure there are people who would want that

so ill take any kind of QoL middle ground that makes it less of a hassle to deal with without limiting the option to do it again for those who choose

Just add an "I already did that, skip it" option. I could even live without the Rapport boost (permanently) if I chose that, though it would be nice to still get that as you do in Cyrodiil, for example.

Necrotech_Master

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

peacenote wrote: »

I've suggested this before, but in my opinion the perfect solution would be to fully leverage both sides of the logic that AwA gave us (as much as I hated its implementation).

Like other collectibles, the companions should be account-wide. If you've unlocked them, you should be able to summon them again on other characters. Like the bankers and whatnot. Since we've broken the wall with AwA by saying "these achievements have been done on your account" instead of per character, why is it such a stretch to pretend that the companions, on other characters, are just mercenaries for hire? Their rapport should be set at neutral... and stuck there.

Then, it could be the case that we'd have to complete the quest to unlock rapport building. This is because some people like to repeat the quests and like being able to have the individual relationships per character. Why should they have to lose this for others to gain convenience? Everyone can win! Perhaps if you don't do the quest, you can't change the armor or level them either. This way, if you're just using them as tools, they are set up to be pulled out to help, but if you want to individualize them you need to make them "full" companions.

As far as the issue with "the companion can't be out to unlock their own quest"... what a SILLY reason. First of all, we know the game has the technology to show a generic NPC when grouped people are questing. There has to be a way to easily tweak this so if a companion is out and the quest is in your quest log it doesn't come out, or something. But even if it's REALLY difficult, I can't even tell you how many times I've unlocked a companion while someone else was doing it right next to me, or finished before me, such that there were multiple Mirris or Embers to be seen while going through the quest line. This game has tons of issues like this, to the point where I think the horse has left the barn already, and it is something people should be willing to tolerate for the sake of a compromise that would otherwise make both sides happy and leave both options. But, what do I know?

i actually kind of like the idea of the rapport being locked at starting defaults unless you do the quest, then on my other characters that i dont care about the rapport, i wouldnt have to deal with the constant quest marker, or the quest taking up journal space without needing to do it

and your thoughts on the "companion cant be out for their own quest" reflect my own, its a nonsense reason considering all of the other locations in game that you can have multiples of companions out (such as a dolmen, or other world event), and compounded by the fact we cant even give the companions headgear to actually differentiate them from another players companion

I try to push it up, even 1 point at a time, when I can. Though Mirri and her anti-bug stance hinders that since torchbugs pop out frequently when I am selecting something else!

I will clearly live with the way it is until they hopefully enable it account-wide (even though that is a misnomer since my account (properly linked too!) is different in 4 places!)

ive only ever really bothered with rapport on my main, because the only reason to do it at all is for the keepsake

my other characters have never focused on raising it, but it raises anyway generally as positive sources outweigh negative ones

the problem i have with the rapport specifically is when you hit the first tier for the companion quest

1. the quest marker will always be active until picked up
2. the companion menu cannot be used at all until you pick it up
3. if you dont want to do the quest, your first option is to waste a quest slot holding it
4. another option for not doing the quest means the quest marker is going to be over them all the time, and blocks the companion menu

if you abandon the quest, then the marker just shows back up over them and again blocks the companion menu, so you have to deal with one or the other if you dont want to do the rapport quest again

Working around this would be quite nice for altoholics!

the main problem with making rapport account wide is then you could never repeat those quests, and im sure there are people who would want that

so ill take any kind of QoL middle ground that makes it less of a hassle to deal with without limiting the option to do it again for those who choose

Just add an "I already did that, skip it" option. I could even live without the Rapport boost (permanently) if I chose that, though it would be nice to still get that as you do in Cyrodiil, for example.

well to get the keepsake you only have to max rapport on 1 character, which i normally do anyway for the story

the other characters though, the rapport quests feel like they are just kind of there because at that point the rapport doesnt matter (you already have the keepsake which is account wide upgrade)

in your case you would have to do rapport at least once per account/per server to cover all the bases