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Hardened Ward heal making it to live is a mistake and needs to be changed
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Bushido2513✭✭✭✭✭It's funny how we'veTheRedRavenTR wrote: »I love how this really long thread is static slaughtering everyone with actual stats and proof and people going "NUH UH DONT TOUCH MY BROKEN CLASS, WHAT ABOUT THIS CLASS?!" hahahahhahaha
This made me smile, kudos for an amazing comment!1 -
Bushido2513✭✭✭✭✭It's funny because I feel like I'm playing a different game then some of the players commenting here.
I'm happy with the change because I feel like it just makes the class more fun without being overbearing. I feel defensively adequate and I can die like before, I've just kind of gained an easy skill slot.
For me it feels fun to play but certainly not as challenging. I'm basically getting similar results to before the patch without having to work quite as hard.
I can certainly see it from the other side though if you want to have a more competitive experience.
Perhaps a better way to say it is that is you're looking for fun casual play this change is fine but if you're looking for competitive play this change wouldn't be adequate.0 -
Desiato✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheRedRavenTR wrote: »I love how this really long thread is static slaughtering everyone with actual stats and proof and people going "NUH UH DONT TOUCH MY BROKEN CLASS, WHAT ABOUT THIS CLASS?!" hahahahhahaha
This is most threads in the forums. This is place is feelings over facts.spending a year dead for tax reasons1 -
Bushido2513✭✭✭✭✭TheRedRavenTR wrote: »I love how this really long thread is static slaughtering everyone with actual stats and proof and people going "NUH UH DONT TOUCH MY BROKEN CLASS, WHAT ABOUT THIS CLASS?!" hahahahhahaha
This is most threads in the forums. This is place is feelings over facts.
To be fair there aren't many facts to be had that aren't gathered to support a preconceived feeling. The only facts I've seen that are clearly gathered and can't be disputed is for a 1v1 cmx but that doesn't extrapolate to the whole of determining the effects of the ward change on pvp as a whole.
So people are taking little bits of facts and infusing them with feelings to bolster their validity.2 -
xylena_lazarow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Bushido2513 wrote: »Perhaps a better way to say it is that is you're looking for fun casual play
Sounds like a very fun and casual experience, not something that makes people quit PvP, nope.ketsparrowhawk wrote: »Typical PvP experience:
- Attack sorc. Sorc jumps up and down while spamming shields, laughing at me.
- I give up and try to attack someone else.
- The sorc activates overload and starts blasting me from range.
- I try to attack the sorc again, they resume jumping up and down and spamming shields, laughing at mePC/NA || CP/Cyro || RIP soft caps3 -
Bushido2513✭✭✭✭✭xylena_lazarow wrote: »Bushido2513 wrote: »Perhaps a better way to say it is that is you're looking for fun casual play
Sounds like a very fun and casual experience, not something that makes people quit PvP, nope.ketsparrowhawk wrote: »Typical PvP experience:
- Attack sorc. Sorc jumps up and down while spamming shields, laughing at me.
- I give up and try to attack someone else.
- The sorc activates overload and starts blasting me from range.
- I try to attack the sorc again, they resume jumping up and down and spamming shields, laughing at me
So it's funny because as a sorc attacking people yes of course this happens. But there's many other ways it can go that aren't in my favor, many. The sorc kit has quite a few advantages but other classes can still bring the pain. Well not necro or Arcanist, those seem to be benched but every other class seems to put up a great fight.
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Arcanasx✭✭✭✭✭TheRedRavenTR wrote: »"NUH UH DONT TOUCH MY BROKEN CLASS, WHAT ABOUT THIS CLASS?!" hahahahhahaha
The deflect-itsu being demonstrated in this thread is truly something to behold.2 -
Bushido2513✭✭✭✭✭TheRedRavenTR wrote: »"NUH UH DONT TOUCH MY BROKEN CLASS, WHAT ABOUT THIS CLASS?!" hahahahhahaha
The deflect-itsu being demonstrated in this thread is truly something to behold.
That goes for both sides for sure! Funny thing is players trying to convince other players when it's really just at the whims of ZOS. But since we can't hit up ZOS we're just arguing why they should or shouldn't do when they will or won't do what they want to regardless2 -
xylena_lazarow✭✭✭✭✭
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Nobody is trying to convince you though, so what is your point, that we should all shut up?Bushido2513 wrote: »Funny thing is players trying to convince other playersPC/NA || CP/Cyro || RIP soft caps1 -
Tcholl✭✭✭The Forum is the official channel to provide feedback about the game.
Someone noted that Hardened Ward should not have made to the live servers and made this post. This is why we came to share our comments. There are facts, opinions, personal experience and also other threads sharing information about the current state of this skill. Others may also come to disagree.
Of course, it is up to the company that publish and manage the game to proceed with any changes. Our part is playing the game and provide valid feedback.
PC NA - Greyhost1 -
Afterip✭✭✭Bushido2513 wrote: »Well not necro or Arcanist, those seem to be benched but every other class seems to put up a great fight.
I think you didnt met 45k hp bash or dw arcanist?
That monter will eat you If you are not a magsorc.1 -
Bushido2513✭✭✭✭✭xylena_lazarow wrote: »
Nobody is trying to convince you though, so what is your point, that we should all shut up?Bushido2513 wrote: »Funny thing is players trying to convince other players
I wouldn't want anyone to be silenced at all. I think it's more about maybe trying to keep an open mind and trying to gather collective information and giving it back to ZOS vs trying to prove or disprove any specific thing to each other.1 -
Bushido2513✭✭✭✭✭Bushido2513 wrote: »Well not necro or Arcanist, those seem to be benched but every other class seems to put up a great fight.
I think you didnt met 45k hp bash or dw arcanist?
That monter will eat you If you are not a magsorc.
I haven't but I want to lol. I like bash builds and would love to see someone making it put in some work!0 -
xylena_lazarow✭✭✭✭✭
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Pretty sure @SkaraMinoc is on these forums and runs a mean bash Sorc, the only class that has the mobility to make bash builds work. Bash Arcs are a joke to any player who knows how to move.Bushido2513 wrote: »I haven't but I want to lol. I like bash builds and would love to see someone making it put in some work!
Our minds are open to data or well reasoned anecdotes, but parroting "it doesn't matter" or "we can't know" is not valuable. Your opinion is noted. Please provide something more concrete regarding the performance of Hardened Ward.Bushido2513 wrote: »I wouldn't want anyone to be silenced at all. I think it's more about maybe trying to keep an open mind and trying to gather collective information and giving it back to ZOS vs trying to prove or disprove any specific thing to each other.PC/NA || CP/Cyro || RIP soft caps0 -
Bushido2513✭✭✭✭✭xylena_lazarow wrote: »
Pretty sure @SkaraMinoc is on these forums and runs a mean bash Sorc, the only class that has the mobility to make bash builds work. Bash Arcs are a joke to any player who knows how to move.Bushido2513 wrote: »I haven't but I want to lol. I like bash builds and would love to see someone making it put in some work!
Our minds are open to data or well reasoned anecdotes, but parroting "it doesn't matter" or "we can't know" is not valuable. Your opinion is noted. Please provide something more concrete regarding the performance of Hardened Ward.Bushido2513 wrote: »I wouldn't want anyone to be silenced at all. I think it's more about maybe trying to keep an open mind and trying to gather collective information and giving it back to ZOS vs trying to prove or disprove any specific thing to each other.
Honestly if you go back through the thread everything has already been said and at this point nothing new is being said. It's just people chiming in or throwing the odd comment so if we're doing that then anything goes.
It's pretty simple, some are ok with ward and some aren't. Nobody can definitively prove anything past that so we're all just on repeat at this moment.
I'd even be willing to play a drinking game and take a drink every time from this point on when someone says something relevant that hasn't already been said. Something tells me I wouldn't have to do much drinking lol.0 -
xylena_lazarow✭✭✭✭✭
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That's how data works, are you trying to get us to stop providing data?Bushido2513 wrote: »It's pretty simple, some are ok with ward and some aren't. Nobody can definitively prove anything past that so we're all just on repeat at this moment
Some players were okay with 60k Tarnished procs because it countered ball groups.
I'd be okay with god mode, if I was the only player that has god mode.PC/NA || CP/Cyro || RIP soft caps1 -
Tcholl✭✭✭To be honest, looks more like many players sharing they are not ok with the current state of hardened ward and a few sorc mains trying to deny the reality.
We will always have players trying to edge any advantage they can or in this case trying to keep it.PC NA - Greyhost2 -
Bushido2513✭✭✭✭✭xylena_lazarow wrote: »
That's how data works, are you trying to get us to stop providing data?Bushido2513 wrote: »It's pretty simple, some are ok with ward and some aren't. Nobody can definitively prove anything past that so we're all just on repeat at this moment
Some players were okay with 60k Tarnished procs because it countered ball groups.
I'd be okay with god mode, if I was the only player that has god mode.
If it's been provided once hasn't it already been provided? It's the same comments, data, etc just with small wording changes. I'm not saying don't share, just saying what I see.0 -
Bushido2513✭✭✭✭✭To be honest, looks more like many players sharing they are not ok with the current state of hardened ward and a few sorc mains trying to deny the reality.
We will always have players trying to edge any advantage they can or in this case trying to keep it.
Reality in this case is subjective because we all in theory share the same reality but are getting multiple impressions.
You could just as easily turn what you said into a few sorc mains enjoying a change and multiple non sorc mains hating on it and that would still be reality as you call it.
I'm just saying let's not confuse number of people in here saying something to equate a reality of some sort.0 -
MEBengalsFan2001✭✭✭✭✭xylena_lazarow wrote: »
That's how data works, are you trying to get us to stop providing data?Bushido2513 wrote: »It's pretty simple, some are ok with ward and some aren't. Nobody can definitively prove anything past that so we're all just on repeat at this moment
Some players were okay with 60k Tarnished procs because it countered ball groups.
I'd be okay with god mode, if I was the only player that has god mode.
I came DCUO where each time the developers released new content and adjusted the class/power the most recent adjusted class/power became the flavor of the month (FotM). I had character for each class/power but stuck with my favorite one even though it wasn’t that great compared to others. That has been happening here for a while.
I personally miss the day where a dark elf due to its bonus fire damage was the best race for DK. I miss where Sorc prefer race was high elf due to the bonus to electric damage. This game has been simplified and has resulted in the never ending balancing act that we see today.
I am waiting for the day where the two types of damage is combined into one type. I am waiting to see changes where damage skills use stamina with magic being used for healing and buffing skills. Last but not least healing would work only off magic, damage only off the damage attribute and the role selected having caps on stats. Meaning tanks and healers max damage would be capped at 3k, healers and dps max resistance would be capped at 24k, etc…
Game is broken and quite a few players enjoy playing classes, using skills or gear sets that broken and provide an unfair advantage in the game just to tell others to get good.0 -
xylena_lazarow✭✭✭✭✭
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If you roll a die 6 times and get 1, 2, 4, 4, 4, 6... did those other 4s not happen or something?Bushido2513 wrote: »If it's been provided once hasn't it already been provided? It's the same comments, data, etc just with small wording changes. I'm not saying don't share, just saying what I see.PC/NA || CP/Cyro || RIP soft caps1 -
Bushido2513✭✭✭✭✭MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »xylena_lazarow wrote: »
That's how data works, are you trying to get us to stop providing data?Bushido2513 wrote: »It's pretty simple, some are ok with ward and some aren't. Nobody can definitively prove anything past that so we're all just on repeat at this moment
Some players were okay with 60k Tarnished procs because it countered ball groups.
I'd be okay with god mode, if I was the only player that has god mode.
I came DCUO where each time the developers released new content and adjusted the class/power the most recent adjusted class/power became the flavor of the month (FotM). I had character for each class/power but stuck with my favorite one even though it wasn’t that great compared to others. That has been happening here for a while.
I personally miss the day where a dark elf due to its bonus fire damage was the best race for DK. I miss where Sorc prefer race was high elf due to the bonus to electric damage. This game has been simplified and has resulted in the never ending balancing act that we see today.
I am waiting for the day where the two types of damage is combined into one type. I am waiting to see changes where damage skills use stamina with magic being used for healing and buffing skills. Last but not least healing would work only off magic, damage only off the damage attribute and the role selected having caps on stats. Meaning tanks and healers max damage would be capped at 3k, healers and dps max resistance would be capped at 24k, etc…
Game is broken and quite a few players enjoy playing classes, using skills or gear sets that broken and provide an unfair advantage in the game just to tell others to get good.
Game is definitely busted and the was part is that I'm pretty sure it's just a downhill trend with momentum at this point. Simple games are just more attractive to broader audiences. I'd love to see a fixed up version of the game0 -
Bushido2513✭✭✭✭✭xylena_lazarow wrote: »
If you roll a die 6 times and get 1, 2, 4, 4, 4, 6... did those other 4s not happen or something?Bushido2513 wrote: »If it's been provided once hasn't it already been provided? It's the same comments, data, etc just with small wording changes. I'm not saying don't share, just saying what I see.
Yes and you tell the die manufacturer hey I think your die may be loaded and they investigate and maybe get back to you.
What's happening here is peoples looking over at the next person and saying how do you not see these dice are loaded and then saying the other person doesn't get it because they think sometimes 4s just happen like that.
Then presenting what they call proof even though the die manufacturer who could answer the question completely hasn't even weighed in or gotten back to anyone.
Obviously by now ZOS is aware, they monitor all threads as we know by the quick presence of icy if you say the wrong thing. So at this point again it's simple and we just have to wait. No I'm not saying don't comment but if one person can comment everyone can comment. Of course you can have the opinion that something isn't helpful commentary but none of us speaks for everyone on here so if ZOS let's a comment stand then by the rules of the forum it's just as allowed as any other comment.0 -
xylena_lazarow✭✭✭✭✭
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Mathematically wrong. Do your homework.Bushido2513 wrote: »Yes and you tell the die manufacturer hey I think your die may be loaded and they investigate and maybe get back to you.PC/NA || CP/Cyro || RIP soft caps0 -
Bushido2513✭✭✭✭✭xylena_lazarow wrote: »
Mathematically wrong. Do your homework.Bushido2513 wrote: »Yes and you tell the die manufacturer hey I think your die may be loaded and they investigate and maybe get back to you.
Sorry I may have misunderstood your example ok so are you trying to say a die rolled a 4 so we know it's possible with me saying I don't need the other 4s because knowing one got rolled is enough?
Like why do I need the other 4s when you proved already that one roll resulted in a 4?
Now if you're telling me the thing rolled 4 multiple times and that's the issue that's where I brought in the dice manufacturer.
In any case when working with a situation where all data is recorded or available to a third party you can give them a few samples and that should be enough for them to choose to or not to choose to investigate. Providing more of the same might help or might give you diminishing return. Each of us has to decide which path seems best personally but since ZOS doesn't really respond we can't know which approach is better or worse0 -
Jsmalls✭✭✭✭✭
✭xylena_lazarow wrote: »Bushido2513 wrote: »Perhaps a better way to say it is that is you're looking for fun casual play
Sounds like a very fun and casual experience, not something that makes people quit PvP, nope.ketsparrowhawk wrote: »Typical PvP experience:
- Attack sorc. Sorc jumps up and down while spamming shields, laughing at me.
- I give up and try to attack someone else.
- The sorc activates overload and starts blasting me from range.
- I try to attack the sorc again, they resume jumping up and down and spamming shields, laughing at me
To be fair Nightblades are doing the exact same thing. You turn to focus them and they disappear (I run detect pots but in a 1vX or GvG scenario losing 30% stamina recovery is a death sentence).
And I can't name a class that if playing defensively (by a competitive player) dies in a 1v1.
Ward is still Overtuned.2 -
TheRedRavenTR✭✭✭To be honest, looks more like many players sharing they are not ok with the current state of hardened ward and a few sorc mains trying to deny the reality.
We will always have players trying to edge any advantage they can or in this case trying to keep it.
We can't dissmiss the fact that 40+% of players play sorc because it is easy mode + unfair + broken + no skill. It is basicly a "DONT NERF MY BROKEN CLASS PLEASEEEEE 😭😭😭" thread.4 -
xylena_lazarow✭✭✭✭✭
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They absolutely do, largely enabled by ranged burst proc stacking, which I've already made a thread on. Melee gankers at least have to play fair inside detect pot radius, but these ranged Tarnished guys can become untouchable.To be fair Nightblades are doing the exact same thing.PC/NA || CP/Cyro || RIP soft caps1 -
TheRedRavenTR✭✭✭xylena_lazarow wrote: »Bushido2513 wrote: »Perhaps a better way to say it is that is you're looking for fun casual play
Sounds like a very fun and casual experience, not something that makes people quit PvP, nope.ketsparrowhawk wrote: »Typical PvP experience:
- Attack sorc. Sorc jumps up and down while spamming shields, laughing at me.
- I give up and try to attack someone else.
- The sorc activates overload and starts blasting me from range.
- I try to attack the sorc again, they resume jumping up and down and spamming shields, laughing at me
To be fair Nightblades are doing the exact same thing. You turn to focus them and they disappear (I run detect pots but in a 1vX or GvG scenario losing 30% stamina recovery is a death sentence).
And I can't name a class that if playing defensively (by a competitive player) dies in a 1v1.
Ward is still Overtuned.
Nb and sorc should be nerfed same patch, so many random % buffs on nb with insane burst heal spammable, nb has so much unneeded survivability. incap bow combo needs a turn down and needs to have other combos. It rarely lands on a good player but still doesnt mean it has to deal a bazillion dmg. Give nb ability to do combos on good players (with skill expression on nb part please) and tune down the incap bow. NB kit exposes how important crit dmg multiplier is regardless of your crit chance because eventually everything will crit and you will deal 45k damage to a 25-30k resists target in 1 sec.0 -
Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
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To be honest, if a NB you are fighting cloaks and actually manages to cloak & escape, then I hate to suggest it but there is a solid chance you may be doing something wrong. I mean, when a NB disappears, then this is the best moment to strike them. They are still there. You can not see them, but NB does not get any speed buff when they use cloak. And if you use some revealing skill (like flare) or any Direct dmg aoe (like arrow spray), NBs tend to panic. And once they panic, then they are dead.To be fair Nightblades are doing the exact same thing. You turn to focus them and they disappear (I run detect pots but in a 1vX or GvG scenario losing 30% stamina recovery is a death sentence).
Unless we are taking about at least decent NB players, who use Shadow Image & they teleport away, but that thing actually takes some skill to learn how to use. It is not very "user friendly".
In case of Sorc, you have to chase them, and unless you are sorc yourself you will have hard time chasing them. Sure, they are "balanced out" by gradual cost increase, so they would not blink back to their alliance home base too fast, but at least they don't have any hard counters.
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