EA Crystalline, Ferocious and Scorching Visions have poor RNG

boi_anachronism_

Finally got the fire one yesterday at 3.4. Considering how many times ive been through up to 7.3 it took a long time. Have yet to get behemoth or frost ones tho

CGPsaint

I snagged 6 Avatar Visions in a row starting in Arc 1, and then didn't get my next until the end of Arc 3. Played through Arc 4 and never saw an Avatar Verse to take advantage of. Also worth mentioning, that I didn't get a single Focused Efforts or Attuned Enchantments that entire run, but I was given the option for more pet damage over and over again!

jahaposada

I agree. I get to the third and fourth arcs consistently and have never gotten 3 visions and the verse for any of these. I just finished an EA and got all 3 Scorching quickly, only to not see the Iron Atronach verse despite having around 15 opportunities. Extremely disappointing and deflating.

LouisaB75

I either get really lucky or unlucky with them. Often I am at 3/3 and no verse appears. Other times like yesterday I got iron atro and werewolf twice in the same run and my duo body got iron too (for Tho'at 4 which finally got me the achievement).

ESO_player123

This is getting ridiculous. I usually end my runs mid Arc 3, occasionally get to arc 4 if I like the visions I'm getting (does not happen often), and twice reached arc 5. I still cannot finish the fire Avatar. If I'm lucky I get 2/3 of fire Avatar visions per run and that is it. Is this completely random? I seem to get the ferocious ones more often.

SilverBride

I am still unable to get the Crystalline achievement completed. I got 3 of them one run then never got the Ice Avatar Verse.

The past few days I have had a couple of runs where I had 2 Crystalline, 2 Scorching and 2 Ferocious, and even had 3 Scorching on one of the runs, but that's as far as I got.

I do at least 1 run every day, often 2, and am becoming extremely frustrated by this. It's bad enough that these are so rare but even worse that once we have found 3 of the group, the 4th Verse doesn't remain permanently unlocked from then forward.

ESO_player123

SilverBride wrote: »

I am still unable to get the Crystalline achievement completed. I got 3 of them one run then never got the Ice Avatar Verse.

The past few days I have had a couple of runs where I had 2 Crystalline, 2 Scorching and 2 Ferocious, and even had 3 Scorching on one of the runs, but that's as far as I got.

I do at least 1 run every day, often 2, and am becoming extremely frustrated by this. It's bad enough that these are so rare but even worse that once we have found 3 of the group, the 4th Verse doesn't remain permanently unlocked from then forward.

At this point for me this is the only reason I'm pushing into arc 4 occasionally (the trash packs are simply not worth the time there). I think the rest of the combat achievements are already done.

Edit: I still need various fragments, but that can be either bought of be grinded at one's leisure with the first two arcs.

Necrotech_Master

SilverBride wrote: »

I am still unable to get the Crystalline achievement completed. I got 3 of them one run then never got the Ice Avatar Verse.

The past few days I have had a couple of runs where I had 2 Crystalline, 2 Scorching and 2 Ferocious, and even had 3 Scorching on one of the runs, but that's as far as I got.

I do at least 1 run every day, often 2, and am becoming extremely frustrated by this. It's bad enough that these are so rare but even worse that once we have found 3 of the group, the 4th Verse doesn't remain permanently unlocked from then forward.

its very heavy RNG with those, having the 3 choice upgrade for both verses and visions helps significantly (im assuming you might have them already)

but yeah its very RNG for me, one run through arc 4 clear ive managed to only get 2 of each set, and another run ive gotten like 6 of the set visions by like the 3rd cycle boss of arc 2 (i got all 3 scorching visions on this run by cycle 1 arc 2 boss, and pulled iron atro as early as 4th cycle boss of arc 2)

going further definitely has better chances of getting these, both because you have more vision picks, and you have more verse picks likely after you finished the set visions

theres also been times ive finished a set early (such as all 3 ferocious by middle of arc 2) and then i never saw the bestial transformation through arc 5

so its a little bit of double RNG, first RNG is getting the set visions, and 2nd RNG is actually having the verse show up after its completed

SilverBride

I have never made it past Arc 3 Tho'at yet so if I don't get them all by then I just don't get them. I've tweaked my skills some and will keep trying but honestly things like this are diminishing my desire to keep going.

Gray_howling_parrot

SilverBride wrote: »

I have never made it past Arc 3 Tho'at yet so if I don't get them all by then I just don't get them. I've tweaked my skills some and will keep trying but honestly things like this are diminishing my desire to keep going.

Group up with a friend or rando, have them tank, and you’ll be golden.

I usually get at least 3/3 for one of the transformations by the end of arc 3. Just bad luck so far! Keep at it!

SilverBride

Cooperharley wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I have never made it past Arc 3 Tho'at yet so if I don't get them all by then I just don't get them. I've tweaked my skills some and will keep trying but honestly things like this are diminishing my desire to keep going.

Group up with a friend or rando, have them tank, and you’ll be golden.

I usually get at least 3/3 for one of the transformations by the end of arc 3. Just bad luck so far! Keep at it!

I do group with a friend a lot. We come close to defeating Arc 3 Tho'at together but haven't made it yet. Although he was able to do it solo once because that fight is easier with a Companion tanking. I just always seem to end up with a boss I can't get past in Arc 3 and haven't reached her yet solo.

SilverBride

So I took a different character in tonight to see if that made any difference, but it didn't. The same thing happened where I had 2 Crystalline, 2 Scorching and 2 Ferocious.

I am not even enjoying the experience any more because I am so frustrated.

Dagoth_Rac

SilverBride wrote: »

So I took a different character in tonight to see if that made any difference, but it didn't. The same thing happened where I had 2 Crystalline, 2 Scorching and 2 Ferocious.

I am not even enjoying the experience any more because I am so frustrated.

The Avatar verses are really, really powerful. They are intended as bonuses for deep runs, where you really need it. Can you get them in earlier Arcs? Yes, technically you can get an avatar on 1.4.2. But that is like refining 20 ancestor silk and getting 2 dreugh wax. Possible but not likely.

If you can go deep, you will get the avatar achievements pretty quick. If you can't go deep, it will take a long time.

You'll get them eventually if you just do 2-ish Arcs but it will take luck. Some achievements reward skill and these are, in many ways, hard mode achievements. Do you look at the veteran achievements of DLC dungeons and get frustrated that they are difficult to get? I have the hard mode, speed run, and no death achievements of many DLC dungeons. The trifecta (all three at once)? Only a single dungeon (Moon Hunter Keep) and there was a lot of luck involved in that and it was probably a year or more after release.

SilverBride

I completed Scorching and Ferocious in the first 2 Arcs. I keep finding these Visions and have gotten the Werewolf Behemoth twice in one day. So I keep getting these but only found 3 Crystalline once, but the Ice Avatar never appeared.

CGPsaint

I did a 6 Arc run last night where my buddy got the Werewolf Behemoth 7 times and the Iron Atronach once. I on the other hand only got the Werewolf Behemoth once. RNG is a cruel mistress in ESO.

SilverBride

I made it to Arc 4 today for the first time. I had 2 Scorching, 2 Crystalline, 3 Ferocious and got the Werewolf Behemoth 4 times during the run.

My friend that needs Ferocious gets the Crystalline Ice Avatar a lot, but I never have yet.

I am thinking this isn't just RNG.

CGPsaint

SilverBride wrote: »

I made it to Arc 4 today for the first time. I had 2 Scorching, 2 Crystalline, 3 Ferocious and got the Werewolf Behemoth 4 times during the run.

My friend that needs Ferocious gets the Crystalline Ice Avatar a lot, but I never have yet.

I am thinking this isn't just RNG.

I cleared 3 Arcs today and only had the option to choose 1 single Avatar Vision. Good times.

SilverBride

Well today we finally got to Arc 4 Tho'at and beat her. During the run I got the Werewolf transformation 3 times and my friend that needs that one didn't. I've gotten this 4 different runs now and while it's a fun one I just want the Ice Avatar to complete these.

Billium813

I'd really just like ZOS to fix the RNG for Visions/Verses that are not applicable to my build

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Well-Trained Command - I'm really tired of seeing this one when I have no combat pet. There may be niche use cases where this might buff some Verses... but without a Class combat pet, this Vision is still way behind all of the other options I could be given and I wont take it.

Tempered Ward - I don't want to see this when I don't use damage shields in the first place! Again, it may buff some Verses, but I'm not interested in a Vision that MAY buff a random Verse I might see later in the slot machine... Just way too niche.

Lessons Learned - Why would I want this one when I'm CP 2200 already? I get that it may be difficult to KNOW when a player doesn't want this one, but maybe we could get it removed in some sort of Veteran version of IA in the future? We just have soooo many sources of 2x EXP at this point. I'd rather not see this one.

Full Coffers - I literally have 20 million gold? Why would I care to increase the 5000 gold I will make from this 3 hours of gameplay into 7000 gold? Again, this is totally personal, but no one is going to get rich from IA.

Martial damage vs Magic Damage - Buffing my Physical, Poison, Disease, and Bleed Damage doesn't mean much to me when I don't have any of those. Buffing my Magic, Flame, Frost and Shock damage is pointless for me if I dont have any of those. That makes it Brawling Advantage, Brawling Blitz, Persistent Pain vs Lethal Sorcery, Thaumic Boom, Thumping Thaumaturgy. If I'm running 2H/Bow, getting one of the Magic buff Visions is almost a total blank.

Vicious Poisons - Every time I see this one it makes me feel like I'm supposed to be using Poisons?!? It just seems to come up soo often... like way too often when its a total blank for my build!

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I get that there's variance and I don't want each run to just be the same. But these Visions are all stacking, so we get offered the same blanks over and over. On top of that, it seems like some are way more high percentage of being offered then others (like I swear I get Lessons Learned & Full Coffers WAY more then any others). I just want to stop getting Thaumic Boom, Effortless Acrobatics, Lessons Learned on my CP 2200 stamplar.

SilverBride

Billium813 wrote: »

...it seems like some are way more high percentage of being offered then others...

This is exactly what it seems like.

I've never gotten the Crystalline verse. I've gotten the Scorching verse once. But I've gotten the Ferocious Verse on 4 different runs now and multiple times per run.

This doesn't feel just like RNG. It feels like the game doesn't want us to get all these achievements too soon so it holds back on one. This feels especially true because the friend I run with has gotten the Crystalline verse several times but still can't get Ferocious.

Billium813

SilverBride wrote: »

Billium813 wrote: »

...it seems like some are way more high percentage of being offered then others...

This is exactly what it seems like.

I've never gotten the Crystalline verse. I've gotten the Scorching verse once. But I've gotten the Ferocious Verse on 4 different runs now and multiple times per run.

This doesn't feel just like RNG. It feels like the game doesn't want us to get all these achievements too soon so it holds back on one. This feels especially true because the friend I run with has gotten the Crystalline verse several times but still can't get Ferocious.

So, I'v run IA like 100 times now or something, I have gotten all of the Visions at one point of another in tons of those runs. I agree that sometimes the transformation Visions do not feel like the same RNG as other Visions, however sometimes they are much more common in the early Arcs then other runs... you can start to think that it is bad RNG, then good RNG, then just true RNG. But maybe its something else...

Every run I'v done to Arc 7 inevitably seems to get all the Transformations. Sometimes I get most of them by Arc 3. Sometimes I don't get one at all until Arc 3. But I do seem to always get all of the Transformation Visions by about Arc 7, more or less. And I know this because, every run I'v done after Arc 7 comes down to Transformations! At a certain point, the run becomes "If one of us gets a Transformation Verse, we get through the next Stage. If not, its a coin flip. If a Marauder spawns too... most likely gg unless we can keep a range ad alive...", but I digress.

I suspect there may be something else going on. Perhaps there is something inherent about the run that decides the RNG decision? Like a seed value that determines the RNG options or something. IDK.

What I do know is that Transformations are REALLY strong and definitely part of the end game of IA. I can see why they may lower the RNG of Transformation Visions because they are "one and done" buffs and very strong. All other Visions stack, so getting the same Vision offered is good, but expected. However... Transformations are also SO MUCH FUN! Getting a Transformation is strong, but it also really helps with the monotony of these ad wave Stages. In later Arcs, where you are both just stringing Transformations together, it's really fun! But it takes like 4 hours to get there! BLARG...

I'd really like to see the IA team go back to the drawing board with Transformation Visions and come up with a new strategy. Give players Transformations more. Make Transformations a key part of IA as it already is in the later Arcs. Eliminate some of the more niche Visions for builds that dont care, consolidate Magic/Physical Visions, and come up with a whole new Transformation RNG/Vision.

How about this? Maybe lower the power of Transformations, but up the chance of getting the pieces. Then, after getting the Transformation, start giving Visions that buff that Transformation so there isn't now a dead slot in the Vision RNG. And maybe players can choose early 1 Transformation, then that becomes the only Transformation they get for the run? Then players can focus down the Transformation if they want instead of being spread out over 3 different ones and ending the run before they ever even get the payoff of Transforming?

SilverBride

I'd like to see the Transformations made permanently unlocked once we have done them once. Just make them appear less frequently to make up for this.

Erickson9610

SilverBride wrote: »

I'd like to see the Transformations made permanently unlocked once we have done them once. Just make them appear less frequently to make up for this.

That would mean that Bestial Transformation would become permanently added to the pool of selectable Verses (including those from the consumable Offensive Verses), and many people would be upset about that because Werewolf Behemoth's locked down toolkit has been known to end runs.

Though, I do think that Avatar Verses don't last long enough for how long it takes to roll the right Visions and the right Verse — only one stage/boss to use any particular Avatar Verse is a huge letdown. I'd suggest that Avatar Verses last for more than one stage to make up for that time investment — maybe for two or three stages with decreased odds of showing up to compensate.

SilverBride

Erickson9610 wrote: »

I'd suggest that Transformation Verses last for more than one stage to make up for that time investment — maybe for two or three stages with decreased odds of showing up to compensate.

Don't they? Because my friend and I each got Werewolf and the Atronach transformations multiple times on our last run that went well into Arc 5. I know we didn't get them all in one stage.

And one time I had Werewolf and he had the Atronach on one of the Tho'at fights.

I am just beyond frustrated that Crystalline has been so incredibly rare for me, especially when I get 2 or 3 of the others almost every run now, solo or duo.

MidniteOwl1913

Erickson9610 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I'd like to see the Transformations made permanently unlocked once we have done them once. Just make them appear less frequently to make up for this.

That would mean that Bestial Transformation would become permanently added to the pool of selectable Verses (including those from the consumable Offensive Verses), and many people would be upset about that because Werewolf Behemoth's locked down toolkit has been known to end runs.

Though, I do think that Avatar Verses don't last long enough for how long it takes to roll the right Visions and the right Verse — only one stage/boss to use any particular Avatar Verse is a huge letdown. I'd suggest that Avatar Verses last for more than one stage to make up for that time investment — maybe for two or three stages with decreased odds of showing up to compensate.

I was totally bummed when I realized that it was only for *one* stage. That just feels so mean-spirited! At least make it last for the whole run! For one stage it isn't in any way worth the effort it takes to get.

Billium813

SilverBride wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

I'd suggest that Transformation Verses last for more than one stage to make up for that time investment — maybe for two or three stages with decreased odds of showing up to compensate.

Don't they? Because my friend and I each got Werewolf and the Atronach transformations multiple times on our last run that went well into Arc 5. I know we didn't get them all in one stage.

And one time I had Werewolf and he had the Atronach on one of the Tho'at fights.

I am just beyond frustrated that Crystalline has been so incredibly rare for me, especially when I get 2 or 3 of the others almost every run now, solo or duo.

After gaining 3/3 of the Transformation Visions, you enable the corresponding Transformation Verse to start popping up. Verses are temporary and only last until the end of the next Stage, but thanks to RNG you can get the Transformation Verse at the end of many Stages. Theoretically, you could get Werewolf Behemoth one stage, then Iron Atronach on the next stage, then Ice Avatar on the boss, assuming you have 9/9 of the Transformation Visions (which is most Arc 7+ runs).

EF321

Iron atro has block bug, where block just won't work sometimes. I lost 3 lives in one run to some boss oneshot heavy because I simply could not block it. Confirmed it in later runs, it just won't work... sometimes. Wasn't one off occasion.
Werewolf is straight downgrade to my character. Taking this in high arcs is suicide. I rolled mystery offensive verse on Arc 6 Tho'at and got it, and that was what killed me.
Frost atro I only picked once and I have nothing to say about it yet.

Erickson9610

SilverBride wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

I'd suggest that Transformation Verses last for more than one stage to make up for that time investment — maybe for two or three stages with decreased odds of showing up to compensate.

Don't they? Because my friend and I each got Werewolf and the Atronach transformations multiple times on our last run that went well into Arc 5. I know we didn't get them all in one stage.

And one time I had Werewolf and he had the Atronach on one of the Tho'at fights.

I mean that the transformation itself only lasts for one stage; you can still pick the unlocked Avatar Verses if they show up again. Theoretically, you could get lucky and get the same Avatar Verse multiple times in a row once it has been unlocked during that run, but for most of my runs, I rarely get the Avatar Verse even after I've unlocked the three Avatar Visions.

Not everyone wants to permanently unlock some of the Avatar Verses, but it's just a pain when you sink multiple hours to finally unlock the Avatar Verse you want and your run ends before you can pick the Avatar Verse — or when you only get one stage to play with it until you have to get lucky enough to find it again. It usually takes multiple Arcs to unlock an Avatar Verse and then multiple Cycles on top of that to see the Avatar Verse, so you're more likely to die before you've had ample time to play with any of them.

The RNG to unlock the Avatar Verses is a pain, but I think the duration of the transformation from the Avatar Verses should be extended (or at the very least have the Avatar Verses themselves made more likely to show up) to make up for the time investment to get to that point. That wouldn't fix the poor RNG for the Avatar Visions, but it would alleviate the poor RNG for the Avatar Verses, in addition to keeping the incentive for picking Avatar Visions and not permanently polluting the Verse pool with unwanted Verses.

Elvenheart

I don’t know that I would want to stay transformed for more than one stage at a time and lose the opportunity to pick something else that might be better for the next stage (see the comment by someone above where they became a werewolf against Tho’at and it caused them to get killed), but I totally agree that once you’ve collected the three visions, the verses should show up as a choice more often than they do.

SilverBride

My frustration reached a new level this morning.

I received one of the elusive Crystalline right away and the very next time 2 Crystalline appeared... meaning I could only pick up one of them... and of course the other never showed up again.

These should never show up together where we can only choose one.