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Please Update Our Class Sets

Tyrant_Tim
Tyrant_Tim
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Recently I had a conversation with one of my guilds about whether it would have been better if the new class sets were 3 or 4 piece sets that provided a unique yet themed 2-piece and 3-piece like…

Wrathsun
  • 2 - Dawn’s Wrath skills cost 5% less.
  • 3 - Activating a Dawn’s Wrath skill grants the caster 10% increased damage to their next direct damage attack.
  • 4 - When you deal damage with a Dawn's Wrath ability, you gain a stack of Sunlight for 10 seconds, once per attack. You can have 40 stacks max and gain 12 Magicka Recovery per stack. When at max stacks, your Dawn's Wrath abilities deal 25% bonus damage and a Wrathful Nova is cast on the enemy, but you cannot refresh Sunlight. When Sunlight expires at max stacks, you lose 50% of your current Magicka.

… and for what I believe was the first time we all unanimously agreed on anything, it was that the approach to new unique class sets would be much more desirable if they looked similar to the example I provided.

Currently, with the sets being 5-piece, they are forced into competition with other sets that they just can’t compete with, where if they were to require less to meet their final bonus, while providing unique benefits along the way, it would give the sets an appeal that would be unrivaled.

My request is this, please consider looking into this as an option, if not for our current class sets, any later additional sets centered around our other skill lines.
  • Tyrant_Tim
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    Is it just that obvious?

    Not really seeing conversation take place around the idea, does everyone agree that this approach would be preferable?

    If so, what other 2 and 3 piece bonuses would be desirable? I’ve named two for Wrathsun that I don’t believe would break the game, but how about other class sets?
  • OBJnoob
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    I agree. I don't have any ideas about what the bonuses would be, but strongly agree more 3 and 4 piece sets should be added. Also that these class sets would've been a good opportunity to start.
  • Erickson9610
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    Billium813 wrote: »
    Tyrant_Tim wrote: »
    Currently, with the sets being 5-piece, they are forced into competition with other sets that they just can’t compete with, where if they were to require less to meet their final bonus, while providing unique benefits along the way, it would give the sets an appeal that would be unrivaled.

    It's this. 1000x this. And I can't see how ZOS doesn't see that; especially at this point.

    ZOS, this isn't another Trial or Dungeon set. This was an opportunity to do something really interesting. Make them 3 piece sets and add the restriction that only 1 class set can be worn at once (just like Mythics). Make the 2 piece a new Class Skill Line Passive and the 3 piece a minor proc similar to a more powerful Monster set 2 piece.

    Will they be possibly auto BiS on release? Probably. But as new Class sets are released in the future, that issue will resolve itself. Just like Monster sets and Mythics, the variety will negate the balancing issue. Meanwhile, players will have fun with a new build designs

    For instance:
    1 Monster Set, 1 Class set, 1 5-piece set, 2 Arena Weapons
    1 Class set, 1 frontbar 5-piece set, 1 backbar 5-piece set, 1 Mythic
    1 Monster Set, 1 Class set, 1 Mythic, 1 backbar 5-piece set, 1 Arena Weapon, 1 Trainee piece

    I'd prefer if all 3 of our Class skill line sets could be worn at the same time — besides, consider how there are item sets which affect all Class skills, like Innate Axiom and Claw of the Forest Wraith. Arena Weapons have the drawback of only being able to equip one per bar, and Mythic items have the drawback of only being able to equip one per build, but Class sets as they are will likely allow you to equip at most two, being 5 piece sets.

    Otherwise, I agree that Class skill line sets should have their effects reworked, and be 3-4 pieces each.
  • Billium813
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    Billium813 wrote: »
    Tyrant_Tim wrote: »
    Currently, with the sets being 5-piece, they are forced into competition with other sets that they just can’t compete with, where if they were to require less to meet their final bonus, while providing unique benefits along the way, it would give the sets an appeal that would be unrivaled.

    It's this. 1000x this. And I can't see how ZOS doesn't see that; especially at this point.

    ZOS, this isn't another Trial or Dungeon set. This was an opportunity to do something really interesting. Make them 3 piece sets and add the restriction that only 1 class set can be worn at once (just like Mythics). Make the 2 piece a new Class Skill Line Passive and the 3 piece a minor proc similar to a more powerful Monster set 2 piece.

    Will they be possibly auto BiS on release? Probably. But as new Class sets are released in the future, that issue will resolve itself. Just like Monster sets and Mythics, the variety will negate the balancing issue. Meanwhile, players will have fun with a new build designs

    For instance:
    1 Monster Set, 1 Class set, 1 5-piece set, 2 Arena Weapons
    1 Class set, 1 frontbar 5-piece set, 1 backbar 5-piece set, 1 Mythic
    1 Monster Set, 1 Class set, 1 Mythic, 1 backbar 5-piece set, 1 Arena Weapon, 1 Trainee piece

    I'd prefer if all 3 of our Class skill line sets could be worn at the same time — besides, consider how there are item sets which affect all Class skills, like Innate Axiom and Claw of the Forest Wraith. Arena Weapons have the drawback of only being able to equip one per bar, and Mythic items have the drawback of only being able to equip one per build, but Class sets as they are will likely allow you to equip at most two, being 5 piece sets.

    Otherwise, I agree that Class skill line sets should have their effects reworked, and be 3-4 pieces each.

    I think this depends heavily on how powerful the design ends up being.

    If they are are the power level of current 3-piece sets, then sure, they can could be unrestricted. However, I think that'd probably be pretty boring. I think allowing a restriction concession means the individual strength can be increased on each Class set. Just look at Monster Sets. I think it could be argued that Monster Sets are much more powerful then a 2 piece set would imply... but the natural restriction of only allowing 1 Monster Set to be equipped means they can be individually strong! I'd rather have a supped up Blessing of the Potentates with a strong effect then just another Willpower.

    I would prefer there be some kind of restriction, but it doesn't have to be an explicit limit of one Class set equipped at a time. If they were limited to body pieces, then you would be naturally restricted to 1 Class Set vs (2 Class Sets + no Monster Set). That could be an interesting tradeoff, especially with all of the body piece Mythics like Gaze of Sithis and Mora's Whispers that naturally prohibit Monster Sets anyway... but unfortunately they were not limited to only body pieces, so that ship has sailed.

    tldr; If you allow ZOS to restrict them, you encourage them to be a stronger 3-piece design then the ones we have now which are pretty mid.
  • chessalavakia_ESO
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    Tyrant_Tim wrote: »
    Is it just that obvious?

    Not really seeing conversation take place around the idea, does everyone agree that this approach would be preferable?

    If so, what other 2 and 3 piece bonuses would be desirable? I’ve named two for Wrathsun that I don’t believe would break the game, but how about other class sets?

    My impression is that part of the purpose of the class set design is to act as a time sink.

    The less pieces that players need to get to complete the sets the less time they need to sink.

    You also run into the issue that the less pieces that a set has the less power it can have while remaining balanced which can easily leave the sets being quite boring.
  • Tyrant_Tim
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    Tyrant_Tim wrote: »
    Is it just that obvious?

    Not really seeing conversation take place around the idea, does everyone agree that this approach would be preferable?

    If so, what other 2 and 3 piece bonuses would be desirable? I’ve named two for Wrathsun that I don’t believe would break the game, but how about other class sets?

    My impression is that part of the purpose of the class set design is to act as a time sink.

    The less pieces that players need to get to complete the sets the less time they need to sink.

    You also run into the issue that the less pieces that a set has the less power it can have while remaining balanced which can easily leave the sets being quite boring.

    Sure, that’s sound.

    Problem is, these Endless Archive sets are below other options, and the class sets that are decent all have negative drawbacks.

    In my opinion, every class set we’ve got so far is as strong as what I would envision a 4 piece, and some of the really bad ones I’d say a 3.

    In spirit of that, I kept the theme of it with the 2 and 3 piece bonuses listed with Wrathsun, being that they would be slightly stronger than an average 2 or 3, but depend on their respective skill line.
  • chessalavakia_ESO
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    Tyrant_Tim wrote: »
    Tyrant_Tim wrote: »
    Is it just that obvious?

    Not really seeing conversation take place around the idea, does everyone agree that this approach would be preferable?

    If so, what other 2 and 3 piece bonuses would be desirable? I’ve named two for Wrathsun that I don’t believe would break the game, but how about other class sets?

    My impression is that part of the purpose of the class set design is to act as a time sink.

    The less pieces that players need to get to complete the sets the less time they need to sink.

    You also run into the issue that the less pieces that a set has the less power it can have while remaining balanced which can easily leave the sets being quite boring.

    Sure, that’s sound.

    Problem is, these Endless Archive sets are below other options, and the class sets that are decent all have negative drawbacks.

    In my opinion, every class set we’ve got so far is as strong as what I would envision a 4 piece, and some of the really bad ones I’d say a 3.

    In spirit of that, I kept the theme of it with the 2 and 3 piece bonuses listed with Wrathsun, being that they would be slightly stronger than an average 2 or 3, but depend on their respective skill line.

    My impression was that the DK Endless Archive set was a set that was quite good without significant drawbacks.

    It was met with a negative reception and was adjusted.

    Players that aren't of the class that gets a good set aren't going to be happy about it if they feel it could threaten their position in PvE or PvP.

    You also have people that play the class in question that may not be happy if the set supports a style of play they dislike.

    Moving the set piece count up rather than down would be more likely to enable increased power to the set.

    If you want more power in a small package, you'd possibly be better served with class specific mythic items, class specific monster sets, and class specific weapon sets as all of those would limit the character a bit in the builds they could run and as a result could justify a bit more power per piece.
  • jaws343
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    Turtle_Bot wrote: »
    Tyrant_Tim wrote: »
    Recently I had a conversation with one of my guilds about whether it would have been better if the new class sets were 3 or 4 piece sets that provided a unique yet themed 2-piece and 3-piece like…

    Wrathsun
    • 2 - Dawn’s Wrath skills cost 5% less.
    • 3 - Activating a Dawn’s Wrath skill grants the caster 10% increased damage to their next direct damage attack.
    • 4 - When you deal damage with a Dawn's Wrath ability, you gain a stack of Sunlight for 10 seconds, once per attack. You can have 40 stacks max and gain 12 Magicka Recovery per stack. When at max stacks, your Dawn's Wrath abilities deal 25% bonus damage and a Wrathful Nova is cast on the enemy, but you cannot refresh Sunlight. When Sunlight expires at max stacks, you lose 50% of your current Magicka.

    … and for what I believe was the first time we all unanimously agreed on anything, it was that the approach to new unique class sets would be much more desirable if they looked similar to the example I provided.

    Currently, with the sets being 5-piece, they are forced into competition with other sets that they just can’t compete with, where if they were to require less to meet their final bonus, while providing unique benefits along the way, it would give the sets an appeal that would be unrivaled.

    My request is this, please consider looking into this as an option, if not for our current class sets, any later additional sets centered around our other skill lines.

    Following on with the 4 piece set idea:

    Monolith of Storms
    • 2 - Grants + 3% crit chance per Storm Calling skill slotted.
    • 3 - Increase initial damage of Mages Fury and morphs by 150% against targets above 20% health (reverts back to the current low initial damage + large execute proc against targets below 20% health).
      This brings fury up to be roughly on par with force pulse as a single target ranged spammable (Fury = 2175 base damage with this change on targets above 20% health compared to force pulse 2088 total base damage on its initial target, not counting the 2399 base damage force pulse deals to nearby enemies).
    • 4 - Dealing damage with a Storm Calling ability creates a Monolith near the target for 10 seconds, up to 1 each second. Max 2. Each monolith deals 1305 shock damage to nearby enemies (within 5m) over their 10 second duration. When the Monolith is spawned, it will shoot a bolt of lightning at the nearest target (within 15m) dealing 1403 Shock damage. The same enemy cannot be hit by this bolt more than once every 10 seconds.
      The combined base damage of pillar (initial + DoT) is 3208 damage, this sets base damage is 2708 or about 16% less than pillar, but it has a bigger upfront hit and smaller DoT than pillar has and synergizes better with common CP sorc uses and sorc passives.
      Each new Monolith summoned removes the oldest monolith. This will help keep it useful in mobile encounters, but with the limit on the burst component of once per 10 seconds per target that cannot be re-proc'd on the same target every summon it cannot be spammed to achieve super high sustained burst on the same target.
      The monoliths AoE DoT also cannot be stacked either. Enemies will only take damage from this DoT once every second.

    - The 2 piece buff ties in sorc wanting high crit chance to proc crit surge more frequently. (3% is the standard for 1 line of crit chance, so it fits considering you have to slot skills to get the crit chance and even use the proc).

    - The 3 piece bonus is there to do 2 things, 1. partially fix sorcs bar space issues, 2 make the set itself easier to use for its intended design of being a front bar proc set.

    - The 4 piece was reworked to fit better into sorcs overall design and functionality. It now no longer tethers between the monoliths, but instead each monolith deals some damage around them for their duration as well as an initial burst of damage to 1 nearby enemy when they are spawned (with appropriate limits put in place to prevent chain bursting the same target over and over by constantly spawning new monoliths).

    Or maybe something like this for Monolith 4 Piece:
    4: Dealing Damage with a Storm Calling Ability spawns a Monolith near the target for 10 seconds, dealing an initial XX shock damage to enemies within 5 meters. Every 2 seconds, the monolith pulses dealing an additional XX shock damage to enemies within 5 meters. When the monolith applies damage to an enemy a "storm" stack is applied to the enemies, storm calling abilities gain an additional 2% damage to that enemy per stack up to 6 stacks. Only 1 monolith can be active at a time.


    Basically, apply an initial burst, and a dot. And every 2 seconds you get an increase in storm calling damage to the targets. And with 1 monolith, it is a bit better to control and more manageable. With 12% potential damage increase to targets from storm calling abilities.

    Edited by jaws343 on December 7, 2023 4:40PM
  • Zabagad
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    Turtle_Bot wrote: »

    Monolith of Storms
    2 - Grants + 3% crit chance per Storm Calling skill slotted.
    Change that to "2 - Grants + 3% crit chance per Storm Calling skill slotted on either bar".
    and I will enter EA for the first time :)
    But to be honest - I would only slot 3 pieces of this version of "Monolith of Storms" and I think it would be to strong.

    But as much as I think OP is right and I would love that they made 3 or 4 pieces sets instead of 5, but any second you put into ideas is a waste of time anyway :(
    Edited by Zabagad on December 8, 2023 8:19AM
    PC EU (noCP AD) Grey/Grau AD
  • Idinuse
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    In regards to Sorcerer's Monolith of Storms... For a class that is rather dependent on crit damage giving heals via Surge, a set that deals hum hum damage, that never crits, every 2 seconds to an enemy is fun-ish in overland, but not even a contender doing EA itself. For a crit (and buff) starved class that depends on it, a crit set is far better both damage wise and survival wise through Surge heals.

    It would have been better to add a buff to it too, like crit chance or increased lightning damage (works well with the class) while it's up or per Monolith. Or maybe even a dmg tick every 1-1.5 second instead of every 2 seconds since set procs can't crit. Small changes can make this set a viable option to the current armory of sets for Sorcerers.
    Edited by Idinuse on December 17, 2023 1:42AM
    Sed ut perspiciatis unde omnis iste natus error sit voluptatem accusantium dolorem que laudantium, totam rem aperiam, eaque ipsa quae ab illo inventore veritatis et quasi architecto beatae vitae dicta sunt explicabo. Nemo enim ipsam voluptatem quia voluptas sit aspernatur aut odit aut fugit, sed quia consequuntur magni dolores eos qui ratione voluptatem sequi nesciunt. Neque porro quisquam est, qui dolorem ipsum quia dolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit, sed quia non numquam eius modi tempora incidunt ut labore et dolore magnam aliquam quaerat voluptatem. Ut enim ad minima veniam, quis nostrum exercitationem ullam corporis suscipit laboriosam, nisi ut aliquid ex ea commodi consequatur? Quis autem vel eum iure reprehenderit qui in ea voluptate velit esse quam nihil molestiae consequatur, vel illum qui dolorem eum fugiat quo voluptas nulla pariatur?
  • Tyrant_Tim
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  • Tyrant_Tim
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    @HackTheMinotaur I like your suggestion of a class slot, in the short term, I do believe 3-4 pieces are the answer.

    As it stands, the class sets are in desperate need of a rework, as the incentive to run Infinite Archive just isn’t there.
    Edited by Tyrant_Tim on December 31, 2023 7:22PM
  • Billium813
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    Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

    > Only like 15/400 sets are worthwhile
    > It's almost impossible to introduce a new 5 piece set. They're either gonna be OP, BIS or another 1 of the 350 sets no one ever touches


    These are all totally valid issues. In principle, I totally love that ESO has 400 different sets. I think it's great that players can build and run whatever their creative juices can come up with! For years, I've been an advocate of Overland sets being designed for new players, so it's ok that the power level is lower. Players should want to pick them up and run with them until they get more experience! I like that there are tons of ways to build and different procs and effects and buffs! It's great that ESO has all of these diverse sets!

    HOWEVER, that isn't reality. The reality of the situation is that those 15/400 sets are totally accessible early in the game. With online guides, players already start the game KNOWING what to go get!! They can buy BIS sets from guild traders, or just ask a friend to craft Order's Wrath! Or run Normal Trials for one weekend to get all of the Relequen they need. No one is picking up random Overland/Dungeon Sets, playing with them for a couple days until they find something better! That's the dream world, and I wish it were like that, but it isn't reality.

    I OFTEN talk about how much I love Antiquities. I really liked Mythics because of the extra effort that it takes to search the game for Leads and collect items while playing ESOs myriad of combat! Plus, Mythics did something great by mixing up how players build! Arena weapons are in the exact same way! Even knowing the 15/400 sets, there can be a Mythic or Arena Weapon mixture that brings in another 20 sets to become "viable" for the creative player.

    Unfortunately, that's where it stops. ESO has 7 unique classes now, but we still have DPS/Healer/Tank roles. Even amongst the classes, many sets are shared as BIS between the classes and roles. There just isn't enough uniqueness between classes to really make each class have their own BIS sets. Class sets were supposed to be that new area that could really mix things up in the same way Arena Weapons and Mythics did!

    > The solution is to add more gear slots
    > You wouldn't even need to change your build at all, just use these new class slots


    You know, I'm really gonna disagree with this because I don't think this solves the issue of helping the other 350/400 sets become viable and help to erode the bloat. Now, you will just have a BIS class slot... and you've fixed nothing. There isn't any compromise that a build will need to make to add a Class set. They won't need to mix and match. You would just be able to add a Class set and immediately become better. Why wouldn't the same 15/400 sets be used, just now with a Class set slot?

    I think in the short term, 3 piece sets are the answer and Class sets would be PERFECT for that design. ZOS can release tons of Class sets in the future and players can have even more complex ways of building out their character; mixing and matching and trying to come up with unique combinations that may be BIS for one class, but not another.

    I would be interested in seeing new gear slots in the future... but I just don't see how they could do that. They'd need to go back and add in 400 new items for each set, update the zones and drop tables. I just can't see them do that.

    I think the other path to success is to add new Weapon Skill lines. Different weapon builds can drive different build designs and bring in more viable sets. Weapon Skill lines ARE the subclasses of ESO and drive diversity. Along with this though, I think many sets need to be revamped and adjusted in power level. A daunting task to be sure, but even if they took 30 existing sets and adjusted them, the landscape could be much brighter.
    Edited by Billium813 on December 31, 2023 9:25PM
  • JerBearESO
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    At very least make class sets 4 piece sets! PLEASE!!!
  • Soarora
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    This is honestly a great idea rather than trying to get them to just be fancy unique proc sets.
    PC/NA Dungeoneer (Tank/DPS/Heal), Trialist (DPS/Tank/Heal), and amateur Battlegrounder (DPS) with a passion for The Elder Scrolls lore
  • Tannus15
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    Monolith of Storms is completely non functional unless you're using fury as spammable. Either one of the fury morphs need to be changed to a spammable or the set needs to be fundamentally reworked.

    Also the conduits need to have a minimum spacing so they don't stack on top of each other making their AOE non existent.

    Once that's done we'll have the underwhelming aoe dps proc set that it always promised to be...

    I agree with literally everyone, 3pc sets would be significantly more interesting from a build perspective. having a 3pc set which only benefits 1 skill line potentially linked to an arena weapon which only affects 1 skill would allow for some really interesting build options allowing us to lean into class identity, especially as more class sets get added.
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