The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/

Please fix Endless Archive difficulty

  • Necrotech_Master
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    Jaraal wrote: »
    notyuu wrote: »
    Just make normal mode and vet with HM on bossess and everyone will be happy.

    We already have "Normal Mode" it's called Arc 1, the bosses are even power scaled down during it so all you gotta do is pay attention to the mechanics and by default you win

    Unless you end up with the dragon on that platform as mentioned a couple of comments above yours. Pretty hard not to lose your threads there. There is nothing normal about that fight. I made it past him once. Just once, to then face Th'oat. There is nothing normal about this kind of thing in the first arc.

    It would be a lot more doable if they made him a mini-dragon, so you had a little more room to work with. Or scale the platform up so you have more space. Trying to fight on a narrow strip of real estate without falling or getting knocked off is the toughest part of that fight.

    i would agree that the platform is far too small for the dragons

    though i havent had any problems fighting the dragon as the boss is usually always aggro'd on me so i never get wing slapped lol

    i havent had any issues clearing either yolnakriin or mulamnir, i just wish there was a bit more room to fight them
    plays PC/NA
    handle @Necrotech_Master
    active player since april 2014
  • Inaya
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    Anyone randomly losing Threads of Fate. Lost 2 without dying? Intended?
  • Luke_Flamesword
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    Today I manage to second boss of 3rd act. Didn't loose any life to this point, but my rng put in front of me annoying cat world boss from Elsweyr with deadly fire attacks. I almost killed him twice, but almost is not good enough so I lost all 3 lifes on him. He was much more deadly than all other bossess which were quite easy for me.

    More I play this, I'm more conviced that's easy solution for whole EA - we should have opportunity to start over from any of first four arcs (after unlocking them). It's reasonable progress (once you beat arc, you can pernamently move on), it don't need nerf of content to be more approachable, it solves problem of too long sessions, it gives opportunity to actually practice harder arcs without spending 90% of time in just progress to them from start.
    PC | EU | DC |Stam Dk Breton
  • autocookies
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    deleted
    Edited by autocookies on March 13, 2024 3:12PM
  • Zyaedra
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    Inaya wrote: »
    Anyone randomly losing Threads of Fate. Lost 2 without dying? Intended?

    I was a little far when the last set of adds spawned in the cycle... my storm atro went away at almost the same time the adds spawned and i got a notification saying i lost a thread, then the adds reset.
  • Wolf_Eye
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    Some players saying it's too easy.

    Some players saying it's too hard.

    Some players saying it's just right.

    I think it might make things easier to understand if people would also state which bosses they fought during their time, and whether they have any prior experience fighting those bosses. Given that the Archive is randomized, it's possible that some of the bosses need to be tuned a bit for a better player experience.

    In other words, it's possible that it's the bosses that are the problem (or at least some of the bosses).
  • Necrotech_Master
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    Wolf_Eye wrote: »
    Some players saying it's too easy.

    Some players saying it's too hard.

    Some players saying it's just right.

    I think it might make things easier to understand if people would also state which bosses they fought during their time, and whether they have any prior experience fighting those bosses. Given that the Archive is randomized, it's possible that some of the bosses need to be tuned a bit for a better player experience.

    In other words, it's possible that it's the bosses that are the problem (or at least some of the bosses).

    for arc 1 i dont think ive had any difficulty with any bosses

    certain bosses such as the dragons annoy me because the platforms are way too small to fight them on, but ive never wiped on them

    ive only encountered 1 bug with zhajassa where the pillar did not protect me properly, but that only happened once so far

    the only enemy i would say is a bit overtuned right now would be the marauders, they hit far too hard with their light attacks
    plays PC/NA
    handle @Necrotech_Master
    active player since april 2014
  • Trejgon
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    Inaya wrote: »
    Anyone randomly losing Threads of Fate. Lost 2 without dying? Intended?

    Lost one today for no reason. was midstage, companion aggroed most of the spawn ahead of me, only one mob decided to run to ne, had full hp, suddenly I get flashed with summary for like split second after which I get ported back to index with apparently no more threads (had last one up when this occured). This have stopped my todays personal record breaking with new build.

    I refuse to believe that randomly loosing your threads is intended behaviour. Must be some sort of a bug.
  • Tyrobag
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    The difficulty is definitely completely out of control. Most of the time it increases WAY too fast, but even then I notice even bigger spikes at random times (not from visions and verses). I've had times on Arc 1 where I completely melt Th'oat without issue, then I've had times where I can't do anything for trying to heal through her suddenly crazy damage. That's with no changes to my build and little to no difference in buffs. On top of that the Th'oat fight is just a pain, its spammy and overly aggressive to the point of not being fun at all. They need to slow down how difficulty ramps up.

    And don't even get me started on having a hard death cap in a game with ESO's habit of booting people -_-
  • boi_anachronism_
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    Quethrosar wrote: »
    Jaimeh wrote: »
    Quethrosar wrote: »
    i am a pure dps player, my point of playing is to do the most damage while having a tank handle the hits.

    i refuse to spend a fight rolling around all the time which seems what they want you to do here. very rarely do i know when to block or to roll.

    my focus is on the mob i am trying to kill, not other stuff. this is why i would be a crap tank.

    Part of being a dps is environmental awareness and optimal positioning, which includes the best spots to drop your AoEs as well as moving around to avoid damage and also to do mechanics. Even if you have a tank around, you still need to block or roll during a fight, the only time you don't need to do this is in front of a parse dummy, but that's not actual content.

    i have done every vet trial , and some hard modes, it is rare i need to worry about dodge and block. Most of the only times i need to worry about it is the stupid meteors that are more annoying than anything. I do not even remember a dodge mech you MUST do for the 2 toughest vet trials. Sure you CAN, but you don't have to. Usually just walk out of the red.

    There are so many block mechanics in vkahm its not even funny. Sanities edge random mini spawn, his big attack you straight up die if you dont block. Vas poison cone especially when you get kite you must block, if you are caught in the back end of someone elses cone, they have a big aoe towards the back. They arent supposed to move, if they swing it anyone in its path is gonna die if they dont get out of it in 2 ticks, its much much more damaging for players its not directly targeted at. You roll it or you die, walking is not an option. Sunspire ice beam.. Rockgrove immediately comes to mind for dodging, you must roll out of group to cleanse. If you walk you drop poison on everyone, you kill your team with that in hm you also need to get back into place as quick as possible to not catch the charge which will kill the group. You also must roll dodge his charge, walking out of it gets you killed. Soul reavers in rg trash packs will kill you if you dont block shield burst. In general spots where you have to dodge roll are to avoid dropping huge damage on your group. In Sanities edge hm you only get .8 seconds to deal with an unavoidable targeted aoe. If you dont block, you will get knocked back and drop it on someone else or in a place that will make the rest of the fight miserable. Vcr creepers. You must roll dodge them to break free, its a must you will be silenced and killed. Vbrp, take aim. You dont dodge it you die. Block doesnt work for it. March of sacrifices has one at the third boss i believe. Vdsr, reef guardian portal the giant crab must be blocked. I could go on quits at length really there are literally dozens of situations where you must block or its a 1 shot. There are additional situational needs like in vcr1 if you have to pick up hoarfrost on a transition you will not get back to group fast enough without rolling since it slows you and your healers will be with group. You have 8 seconds of ramping damage before you can drop it, if you arent getting massive heals in that time you die, you cant self heal out of it as a dps. Im doing triple skip vcr 3. Believe me, ive tried.
    Additionally you severely limit the strat options for your team as many of them require you to dodge through a boss. Ive beat nearly all vet hm dungeons, some trifectas (same run) and im doing trifectas in trials. Most advanced strats at that level require you to stack closely with your team to control kite mechanics and your dps will be significantly reduced if you arent because many buff aoes are small. When you are in that position you dont have time to walk out. Essentially if you arent doing these basic mechanics its just plain detrimental to the team.
    Edited by boi_anachronism_ on November 2, 2023 11:17PM
  • robpr
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    Did 4 runs. Most of bosses difficulty is just right, but there are some more or less out of whack spikes here and there. Rakkhat spawns damage circle right after aggroing, if you are melee then you almost have no time to get out.
    Warrior spawns significant number of adds during hp chipping but they all wake up when he pulls out a sword.
    Mullamir does a fly-by breath attack like overland dragons that is heavy hitting and has little to no warning where its gonna be
    Baron Zaudrus flame fan.

    As for Tho'at, she is fine, but have very unusual attack windup that need to be remembered. Sword cleaves can be blocked most of the time but Tempered Strike need to be dodged and it has like 4s windup. I do not know her 3rd Arc iteration so I only can speak about her Arc 1 and 2 versions.

    As for difficulty in general, I have only complaint about the Ruinach Marauder, it has far too much damage for just Act 2. I can imagine its just worse later on.
  • Zyaedra
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    for the difficulty of this arena, i am of two minds:

    one: i can't go an hour (solo) without losing all my threads. arc 4 is the farthest i've gone before my threads ran out. this has me feeling like i didn't understand the intent behind it -- if it's "endless", why then am i only able to spend an hour in it before i have to reset? (i know, git-gud scrub.)

    two: for maelstrom and vetasheran solo arenas, how many times have we said we wish we could help newer players/friends struggling with those arenas? maybe this arena is supposed to feel like that -- challenging when solo and the ability to add a friend makes it as easy as we would expect vMA and vVH to be if we could duo those too. it's only been a couple days, i can definitely see how more reps and learning strats (especially for the marauders) will make it more survivable and have that "endless" feel once those skills are honed.

    so i am not sure if the difficulty is an issue. i guess it falls back to the original intent behind it -- does this arena in its current state accomplish what was intended?

    now onto another portion -- the leaderboards. imo the leaderboard portion needs to be reconsidered because people shouldn't feel the need to spend more than 1-2 hours in an instance to have a competitive score. a possible solution is to make the leaderboard portion based on what happens within a set amount of time -- make the score multipliers the same as other arena and trials (how many things were killed, how many arcs, cycles, etc. achieved, and how many deaths -- not threads). after x time, the score would be set for the remainder of the instance but the instance would continue on.

    Edited: Wolf_Eye suggested that we state what boss we find difficult. for me, it's the marauders -- they are bullies and they have taken my lunch money all but one time (or at least i think i've won once...).
    Edited by Zyaedra on November 2, 2023 10:50PM
  • Cayr
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    Hard disagree. Arc 1 is extremely easy. I do most of my dailies on my tank with only some purple crafted gear sets and some CP switched around and even I can manage. It takes a bit more time doing little DPS, but I don't find it's too difficult if you just have a self-heal. On an actual DD character with even a half-decent gear setup, most adds on Arc 1 pretty much die to 2 attacks. The difficulty is fine as is - Arc 1 is easy enough to complete for the daily, further arcs will progressively challenge you more. If you can't manage to clear Arc 1, sorry, but that sounds like an issue with your setup or maybe you're expecting no resistance from content at all. That's not a reason to ruin it for the rest of the playerbase.

    This is why everything in the game has multiple difficulty levels - the content has to be accessible, which it is very much so on Normal, and in EA, Arc 1. Difficulty levels or further arcs are not different content, and they don't have to be able to be completed without any effort. Difficulty levels are there to be, you know...more difficult. That's kind of the point. If you want to do the more difficult content, complaining that the difficulties should be made easier for you is not the way to go.

    With 2 players (not tried solo past Arc 1 for the daily), the difficulty progression feels spot on. ZOS got it actually pretty perfect. It ramps up in a very consistent manner and is decently challenging in the later arcs. I just really-really wish they would a) enable a way to save progress like it is in VH and MA when you port out and back in, and just pick up where you left off; b) maybe find a way to enable skipping some of the earlier arcs if wanted. Not sure if that would work given the scoring being a thing, but something to consider for sure.
    Edited by Cayr on November 2, 2023 10:44PM
  • Jaraal
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    ive only encountered 1 bug with zhajassa where the pillar did not protect me properly, but that only happened once so far

    Lucky for you. When I fought him, I got exactly one pillar the entire fight, and it was up for 5 seconds, then despawned. Fortunately, I was running 40k health and running a shield build, I was able to survive the one shots with about 3k health. And the cleanse pads didn't always work. Very buggy fight for me.


    Incidentally: Xynode has a very good walkthrough on YouTube where he fights all 68 bosses, and gives tips on mechanics. I highly recommend giving it a look.


    Edited by Jaraal on November 2, 2023 11:41PM
    RIP Bosmer Nation. 4/4/14 - 2/25/19.
  • BlueRaven
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    Wolf_Eye wrote: »
    Some players saying it's too easy.

    Some players saying it's too hard.

    Some players saying it's just right.

    I think it might make things easier to understand if people would also state which bosses they fought during their time, and whether they have any prior experience fighting those bosses. Given that the Archive is randomized, it's possible that some of the bosses need to be tuned a bit for a better player experience.

    In other words, it's possible that it's the bosses that are the problem (or at least some of the bosses).

    For awhile now there have been mentions that the difference between high end dps and low end was far too great. That balancing content between the extremes was basically impossible. And also keep in mind, not too long ago zos targeted oaksorc / HA builds with a nerf, making this delta greater.

    And now we see the results. High end complaining it takes too long to get to challenging content, low end asking for nerfs.

    How do we fix it? 🤷🏻‍♂️

    We can’t buff low end dps because “those people” have not “earned” it (according to the forums anyway).

    We can’t nerf top end because they will get
    upset.

    We can’t do normal/vet because rewards (that are already a problem) becomes a bigger problem to balance.

    Too good rewards in “normal” makes the reason for doing vet questionable. Too low rewards in “normal” will just drive resentment.

    So it is, what it is.
  • Wolf_Eye
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    Wolf_Eye wrote: »
    Some players saying it's too easy.

    Some players saying it's too hard.

    Some players saying it's just right.

    I think it might make things easier to understand if people would also state which bosses they fought during their time, and whether they have any prior experience fighting those bosses. Given that the Archive is randomized, it's possible that some of the bosses need to be tuned a bit for a better player experience.

    In other words, it's possible that it's the bosses that are the problem (or at least some of the bosses).

    for arc 1 i dont think ive had any difficulty with any bosses

    certain bosses such as the dragons annoy me because the platforms are way too small to fight them on, but ive never wiped on them

    ive only encountered 1 bug with zhajassa where the pillar did not protect me properly, but that only happened once so far

    the only enemy i would say is a bit overtuned right now would be the marauders, they hit far too hard with their light attacks

    Yeah dragons definitely need to have platforms that accomodate for their size. That's a bit unfair.

    And that bug with the pillars needs to be fixed. I've seen some people say the pillars don't show up at all, or that they show up on the edge of the arena.

    Given that they did not change them to account for the size of the arena (i.e. ones that show up on the edge) I have a feeling that the pillars that "don't show up" are actually showing up outside of the arena (and that if you could peer into the depths below, you would see them down there).


  • Malprave
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    I can’t see a nerf to the archive. I mean seriously, how long do you want to be in there anyway?

    Even if you can’t complete the first arc you can still get the gear. In previous arenas only the final boss dropped anything worthwhile.

    Leave the challenge for players that want it.
  • Wolf_Eye
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    BlueRaven wrote: »
    Wolf_Eye wrote: »
    Some players saying it's too easy.

    Some players saying it's too hard.

    Some players saying it's just right.

    I think it might make things easier to understand if people would also state which bosses they fought during their time, and whether they have any prior experience fighting those bosses. Given that the Archive is randomized, it's possible that some of the bosses need to be tuned a bit for a better player experience.

    In other words, it's possible that it's the bosses that are the problem (or at least some of the bosses).

    For awhile now there have been mentions that the difference between high end dps and low end was far too great. That balancing content between the extremes was basically impossible. And also keep in mind, not too long ago zos targeted oaksorc / HA builds with a nerf, making this delta greater.

    And now we see the results. High end complaining it takes too long to get to challenging content, low end asking for nerfs.

    How do we fix it?
    🤷🏻‍♂️

    We can’t buff low end dps because “those people” have not “earned” it (according to the forums anyway).

    We can’t nerf top end because they will get
    upset.

    We can’t do normal/vet because rewards (that are already a problem) becomes a bigger problem to balance.

    Too good rewards in “normal” makes the reason for doing vet questionable. Too low rewards in “normal” will just drive resentment.

    So it is, what it is.

    The highlighted was one of the things I was worried about, and I remember we (the forum peoples in general, not necessarily you specifically Blue) were talking about how the lack of a difficulty choice might be a problem in the long term.

    And I'm still honestly really worried about the long term, seeing a lot of people's comments. I think a part of me was hoping that the Endless Archive would renew people's interest in the game; it just feels like we're losing so many people. I'm just really worried. This wasn't what I had hoped for.

    ~
    Edited by Wolf_Eye on November 3, 2023 12:45AM
  • Paralyse
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    I don't mind the difficulty, but the rewards are underwhelming at best, with the rare exception of a couple of nice furnishing patterns. I was hoping for a large selection of titles, mounts, skins, cosmetic items, etc. The few that exist are locked behind heavy grinds. I do enjoy the fact that it's not faceroll easy at higher levels, it gives me a challenge to look forward to and work on finding new strategies and builds to get even better!

    The only boss I've had a major problem with (up to arc 3 at least) is the Marauder that has an unblockable, undodgeable insta-death fire DoT mechanic.

    They do need to fix the gear bug that happens after you die. They also need to fix Sorc pets randomly dying or despawning for no reason. I cannot count the number of times my pets randomly despawned fighting Tho'at. It's a lot. I spent a good part of the fight having to resummon them!

    I also don't understand the logic behind all of the verses that depend on enemies being slain to trigger; they don't work on boss fights unless that boss happens to spawn adds. The buffs from Verses do not seem to carry over after defeating bosses, as far as I can tell; only the effects from Visions seem to carry over to your next arc. This is in contrast to the way WoW handled this system with Torghast, where ALL buffs (anima powers) obtained during a run lasted for the entire run, so that by the time you hit, say, floor 15, you were extremely powerful, but so were all the enemies. The end result is that in ESO, Verse buffs feel underpowered. Despite getting every single defensive verse I could acquire, as well as a few offensive verses, by Arc 3 I still felt like an absolute weakling compared to what was coming after me.

    There are some other oddball choices that make little sense, e.g. the Verse that buffs the damage of Assault skill line abilities. This meaningfully affects only Caltrops and Proxy Detonation.

    Tho'at definitely needs tuning after the first arc. There are far too many mechanics for a solo or duo boss - she has at least 6 different mechanics that I've seen so far, possibly more. Many of them are poorly telegraphed and offer absolutely no explanation of what is happening, nor provide any hints on how to deal with them. You just see random stuff popping up all over the place, and random areas of bad things on the ground. The very small size of the Arena makes maneuvering incredibly difficult, and also so much stuff happening on-screen in such a confined area causes quite a bit of lag. She is by far more difficult than any of the bosses I've encountered once you get past Arc 2.

    One thing I wish ZoS would do is offer mechanics explanations during the recap, e.g. "Stand behind the stone pillar to avoid getting hit by Ability X" or "Make sure you purge Debuff before the damage ramps up too high" or "Kill Tentacles to prevent them from empowering the boss's attacks" etc. This would help especially players who do not have previous experience with dungeon / trial boss mechanics.
    Edited by Paralyse on November 3, 2023 1:37AM
    Paralyse, Sanguine's Tester - Enjoying ESO since beta. Trial clears: vSS HM, Crag HM's, vRG Oax HM, vMoL DD, vKA HM, vCR+1, vAS IR, vDSR, vSE
  • Toxic_Hemlock
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    Malprave wrote: »
    I can’t see a nerf to the archive. I mean seriously, how long do you want to be in there anyway?

    Even if you can’t complete the first arc you can still get the gear. In previous arenas only the final boss dropped anything worthwhile.

    Leave the challenge for players that want it.

    OK, being generous lets say that 25% percent (most likely less) will find it fun, engaging and challenging enough to keep them playing it over and over. That still leaves 75% of the player base (again apx as I have no hard data) out in the cold.

    I remember the days of craglorn. Actually I don't. I was one of the ones who quit until one tramreal came out as it was far too tough for me going past the starter map. IIRC there were many players back then saying the world was easy and leave the challenge alone too, but the open world was empty most of time. Not good for an MMO.

    I am not trying to pick on you, so please don't take it as such. But, it seems the players that want said challenge are nowhere near as numerous as those that just want to have a casual experience after work for fun. In all honesty 75% is a bigger number to go towards keeping the light on. I myself would be happy if they removed the trial and one shot bosses from the first arc, and as the more elite players already find that tier trivial, I can see no down side.
  • Zyaedra
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    it comes down to what was advertised and what the intent was supposed to be for the arena. i don't think what was advertised matches what was released.

    https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/updates/endlessarchive
    right at the top in big fat letters: "Discover an unending battle and unlock unique rewards in the Endless Archive, an all-new PvE activity." well, for solo players, it is far from unending. why only 3 lives/threads if it's supposed to be unending? and lol those surprise marauders that pop up during add phases and basically steal a thread -- they are more difficult than bosses imo.

    duo teams lose threads on wipes rather than deaths (for solo players a death is also a wipe), so maybe that skews the experience between both versions as well.
    Edited by Zyaedra on November 3, 2023 2:08AM
  • endgamesmug
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    When the marauder arrives it cracks me up, so intense!😂 all of a sudden
  • Vynera
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    Paralyse wrote: »
    Verse buffs feel underpowered. Despite getting every single defensive verse I could acquire, as well as a few offensive verses, by Arc 3 I still felt like an absolute weakling compared to what was coming after me.

    Because a verse buff only holds for one round, basically until you get to choose the next one, then the previous will "expire". Exceptions are the random "unknown" encounter rooms that will reward you with an additional verse buff for the next room and the scrolls that add a random verse buff.
    Only visions will persist through the entire run and can stack up.
  • caperon
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    Dificulty is fine. Many visions need to be buffed to comparable level to the best one.

    For people strugling, get good. Really. Arc 1 and 2 are comparable to normal maelstrom arena.
  • Caligamy_ESO
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    Do not make EA like overland content is, or you're just begging players who do enjoy it to walk out.
    love is love
  • Jaraal
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    When the marauder arrives it cracks me up, so intense!😂 all of a sudden

    The big screen text reminds me of Pokemon.

    "A WILD MARAUDER APPEARS!"
    RIP Bosmer Nation. 4/4/14 - 2/25/19.
  • Lugaldu
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    Whatever they decide on difficulty, the main problem with EA is that it forces you to play for hours without stopping, you can't save your progress, you either play until you collapse or keep getting thrown back to 0. This concept is the most unhealthy activity I have ever seen.
    It's absurd that you have to fight your way through mobs over and over again for hours before you have the opportunity to face your next personal challenge with the next arc. Yesterday I got further than ever before, but I had to stop in the end because I had been awake for far too long already. The whole thing just left me feeling frustrated because I know I would have gotten further, but I could not because I also have a real life with obligations. It's frustrating knowing that next time I'll start from 0 and probably won't get any further because I just don't have the time to play for hours.
  • woe
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    Everything up to Arc 5 is boring. Finishing Arc 5 is fun and when you get to 6 it's like double the hp and triple the damage of everything before it. The difficulty ramps into Diablo-esque numbers and becomes dumb. It needs to be balanced because it currently isn't anywhere close to being endless.
    uwu
  • SkaraMinoc
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    This is a little much for Arc 1.

    ZuJHmaO.png

    Yes, I understand the mechanic. I was in lazy mode parsing the boss because I didn't expect Arc 1 to do this much damage.
    PC NA
  • Firstmep
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    My ideas:
    -Add separate scaling for solo/ duo.
    -Allow "checkpoints" every few Arcs, so after restarting a run we don't have to slog through boring easy arcs.(Should be optional). So like if you have cleared up to Arc 4 you can choose to start your next run there. You do skip the rewards from previous arcs, but if you just wanna progress it would save a lot of tedium.
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