Maintenance for the week of January 6:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – January 6
• NA megaservers for maintenance – January 8, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 8:00AM EST (13:00 UTC)
• EU megaservers for maintenance – January 8, 9:00 UTC (4:00AM EST) - 13:00 UTC (8:00AM EST)
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – January 6
• NA megaservers for maintenance – January 8, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 8:00AM EST (13:00 UTC)
• EU megaservers for maintenance – January 8, 9:00 UTC (4:00AM EST) - 13:00 UTC (8:00AM EST)
We will be performing maintenance on the PTS on Tuesday at 10:00AM EST (15:00 UTC).
Templar: lack of feedback
-
kojou✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭SandandStars wrote: »Every class besides NB & DK will remain half-baked for the game’s duration.
Templars, enjoy ruined jabs
Necros & Magsorc. enjoy ruined class
Wardens enjoy being forgotten.
Playing since beta...1 -
pklemming✭✭✭✭✭
✭It is utterly pointless giving any feedback on PTS regarding templar, or any change.
Templar used to be my main, but there is little point playing them now. We asked them to revert changes in U35. There was a massive hate for the animation changes for both jabs and flurry. Did they listen?
Are they going to listen now?
I use PTS as a test for dps now, that is all it is useful for. I used to test and send in reports. How many of those bugs went llive? You guessed it. All of them. They will change stuff regardless of what we say. I miss the days of Everquest, where devs actually listened to player feedback and took what we said in to account.
They use a hideous system for balancing, that attempts to balance pvp and pve, resulting in everyone being unhappy. The total uproar when they finally decide that Arcanists are overpowered will be U35 all over again, but possibly worse this time around.6 -
Xelyum✭✭✭I wish Piercing Javelin had a spammable morph.
I wish Radiant glory got reworked instead of adding band-aids (I would love to see it turned into a 7m channeled cone AoE in front of the character)
I wish Sun shield had a morph that scales off your offensive stats.
I wish backlash would trigger the current stored damage if you cast it before the duration is over instead of removing it.
I wish Nova was a competitive ult instead of being a meme.1 -
ElderSmitter✭✭✭✭✭DocFrost72 wrote: »Tyrant_Tim wrote: »UsualSurrender wrote: »2. Radiant shield works just fine, especially since they buffed it recently. Blazing shield is absolutely useless though.
Radiant Ward is still a gimmicky shield that involves being heavily outnumbered to receive enough value to help prevent a burst, which is all it can do with a 6s duration.
Did I mention wards don’t receive block mitigation? So lining your tank up with a ward as its primary source of defense completely goes against the idea of using a shield or ice staff… your staple weapons on a tank.
Templar tank needs a complete revision, which starts with Sun Shield, because right now, the class is enjoying its view of the top from the absolute bottom of the tier list.
Just a friendly reminder that these things don't work in a vacuum.
Templar tank has a lot of nice hots (including a %hp based one that also restores resources), so while yes that damage shield looks "meh" (to me it doesn't but that's your opinion) on its own, the scenario isn't going to be that simple.
A tank's job is as follows in descending order of importance:
-Taunt scary enemies, often the big bad boss and burst mobs.
-Remain alive
-Debuff enemies and buff allies.
One of the biggest misconceptions is of the "selfish" tank. It's really, really hard to design a tank that does nothing but help itself. By definition, your (most likely) taunt shreds armor for the dps and allows the healer to layer hots instead of spamming far more expensive and less efficient burst healing.
Tanks want to be as tough as they need to survive, THEN pour on the good stuff for their parties.
Doc, why is this remotely relevant to sun shield?
Because sun shield acts as an increase to max hp, using your (likely) off resource to make you tougher. A Templar tank that doesn't use sun shield by definition dies easier than a tank without it, as it protects against [burst] damage. That allows the healer to maintain hots, save their resources, and allows you to perhaps even shed a defensive set in favor of group utility.
Could it be better? I think so. I mean it already gives minor protection thanks to spear wall, but I could see it procing minor maim on activation too.
Blazing shield SPECIFICALLY needs a redesign. The identity of the templar is in building an area you are strongest in, so with that in mind I'd love to see blazing provide additional protection for allies, or apply extra fire damage to allies' attacks for x seconds when you absorb damage with it.
I love my Templar Tank. I would not want to be any other Tank and have no sustain issues or survivability issues. Sun Shield is a Staple on my Bar. I am a Stamina based Tank as well. I cannot tell you how many times i go from DPS in a group to a Tank as other classes cannot make it thru Vet DLC dungeons quite often. Especially the newer ones. I have posted video's running some of the Hardest DLC Content as my Templar Tank. It is lots of fun! I agree with your Post 100%. If you know how to Tank a Templar Tank is Right up there imo at the top. Sure we can always use more as can other classes lol. Restoring Focus on my Back Bar is amazing combined with Sun Shield on my Front bar and so many other things! I could go on and on!0 -
MashmalloMan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I hate the new jabs/sweeps animation and I’m NOT over it. I genuinely detest it, it’s the proverbial straw that, combined with other I35 changes and the response to feedback, has made me go without ESO+ for over a year now.
The Templar set really illustrates that the devs have no handle on Templar identity. That makes sense given that they show no understanding of the current class challenges.
One thing I didn’t see pointed out in the comments is how the shield gets doubly hit by battle spirit reductions. This is particularly noticeable on the Blazing Shield morph. The shield size is halved; then the maximum damage, based on the shield’s damage absorption which is already halved, is also halved, making it hit for less than a light attack.
I'll never get over the new jabs animation either. I don't think ZOS realizes just how bad it is for their reputation. These new animations are solidly in the "what were they thinking?" category.
Aw that's cute. That would be like saying ZOS isn't aware how upset Wood Elves are about losing their stealth bonus.
Look at how that turned out 😂
I think ultimately this comes down to management. I have my suspicions they've slowly taken more and more staff away the past year or so for their new MMO, pushing necessary core updates farther down the pipeline. Due to how developement works, meaningful changes we request that require animations, vfx, modeling and sound work could be anywhere between 6-12 months away with a normal pipeline and I'm arguing ESO no longer falls under that category.
Theory time, but the new adjustment to the DLC structure was a happy coincidence from earlier this year. In the past, they would release their "arena" content with zone dlc where as this is the only content this update. Vat arena released in 2020, with no arenas in 2021 or 2022, meaning this has probably been in developement for at least 2 years. Mid 2022, they made the decision to update the dlc structure for 2023 because of less staff and community feedback, so the Endless Archive got upgraded in the pipeline to be a more complete package that they could justify a whole update to with u39 focussed on "bugs" to give them enough time to complete that vision.
Idk. The signs are there for me. I'm still waiting for them to prove me wrong. It's the only excuse I can think of as to why hybridization is still not complete after 2 years.
This is all to say I do appreciate the new dlc structure change as I'm more interested in repeatable end game content as apposed to dungeons and zones I can finish in 1 sitting, but I'm getting really tired of waiting for core gameplay to be redesigned like the aforementioned Templar Jabs issues, racials, hybridization and class identity as a whole.
But hey, speak with your wallet. For 7 years I paid for ESO + on and off, purchased crowns around Christmas, every chapter then update 35 happened and I found it easy to take an extended vacation from the game. Was really hoping this would be the update to bring me back long term.
Maybe update 41.. 😂Edited by MashmalloMan on September 30, 2023 8:28PMPC Beta - 2200+ CP
Stam Sorc Khajiit PvE/PVP Main || Stam Sorc Dark Elf PvP ||
Stam Templar Dark Elf || Stam Warden Wood Elf || Stam DK Nord || Stam Necro Orc || Stam Blade Khajiit
Mag Sorc High Elf || Mag Templar High Elf || Mag Warden Breton || Mag Necro Khajiit || Mag Blade Khajiit3 -
Tyrant_Tim✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ElderSmitter88 wrote: »DocFrost72 wrote: »Tyrant_Tim wrote: »UsualSurrender wrote: »2. Radiant shield works just fine, especially since they buffed it recently. Blazing shield is absolutely useless though.
Radiant Ward is still a gimmicky shield that involves being heavily outnumbered to receive enough value to help prevent a burst, which is all it can do with a 6s duration.
Did I mention wards don’t receive block mitigation? So lining your tank up with a ward as its primary source of defense completely goes against the idea of using a shield or ice staff… your staple weapons on a tank.
Templar tank needs a complete revision, which starts with Sun Shield, because right now, the class is enjoying its view of the top from the absolute bottom of the tier list.
Just a friendly reminder that these things don't work in a vacuum.
Templar tank has a lot of nice hots (including a %hp based one that also restores resources), so while yes that damage shield looks "meh" (to me it doesn't but that's your opinion) on its own, the scenario isn't going to be that simple.
A tank's job is as follows in descending order of importance:
-Taunt scary enemies, often the big bad boss and burst mobs.
-Remain alive
-Debuff enemies and buff allies.
One of the biggest misconceptions is of the "selfish" tank. It's really, really hard to design a tank that does nothing but help itself. By definition, your (most likely) taunt shreds armor for the dps and allows the healer to layer hots instead of spamming far more expensive and less efficient burst healing.
Tanks want to be as tough as they need to survive, THEN pour on the good stuff for their parties.
Doc, why is this remotely relevant to sun shield?
Because sun shield acts as an increase to max hp, using your (likely) off resource to make you tougher. A Templar tank that doesn't use sun shield by definition dies easier than a tank without it, as it protects against [burst] damage. That allows the healer to maintain hots, save their resources, and allows you to perhaps even shed a defensive set in favor of group utility.
Could it be better? I think so. I mean it already gives minor protection thanks to spear wall, but I could see it procing minor maim on activation too.
Blazing shield SPECIFICALLY needs a redesign. The identity of the templar is in building an area you are strongest in, so with that in mind I'd love to see blazing provide additional protection for allies, or apply extra fire damage to allies' attacks for x seconds when you absorb damage with it.
I love my Templar Tank. I would not want to be any other Tank…
Is it Opposite Day? Templar tanks are the lowest tiered out of every bracket and are non-existent within any leaderboard.ElderSmitter88 wrote: »DocFrost72 wrote: »Tyrant_Tim wrote: »UsualSurrender wrote: »2. Radiant shield works just fine, especially since they buffed it recently. Blazing shield is absolutely useless though.
Radiant Ward is still a gimmicky shield that involves being heavily outnumbered to receive enough value to help prevent a burst, which is all it can do with a 6s duration.
Did I mention wards don’t receive block mitigation? So lining your tank up with a ward as its primary source of defense completely goes against the idea of using a shield or ice staff… your staple weapons on a tank.
Templar tank needs a complete revision, which starts with Sun Shield, because right now, the class is enjoying its view of the top from the absolute bottom of the tier list.
Just a friendly reminder that these things don't work in a vacuum.
Templar tank has a lot of nice hots (including a %hp based one that also restores resources), so while yes that damage shield looks "meh" (to me it doesn't but that's your opinion) on its own, the scenario isn't going to be that simple.
A tank's job is as follows in descending order of importance:
-Taunt scary enemies, often the big bad boss and burst mobs.
-Remain alive
-Debuff enemies and buff allies.
One of the biggest misconceptions is of the "selfish" tank. It's really, really hard to design a tank that does nothing but help itself. By definition, your (most likely) taunt shreds armor for the dps and allows the healer to layer hots instead of spamming far more expensive and less efficient burst healing.
Tanks want to be as tough as they need to survive, THEN pour on the good stuff for their parties.
Doc, why is this remotely relevant to sun shield?
Because sun shield acts as an increase to max hp, using your (likely) off resource to make you tougher. A Templar tank that doesn't use sun shield by definition dies easier than a tank without it, as it protects against [burst] damage. That allows the healer to maintain hots, save their resources, and allows you to perhaps even shed a defensive set in favor of group utility.
Could it be better? I think so. I mean it already gives minor protection thanks to spear wall, but I could see it procing minor maim on activation too.
Blazing shield SPECIFICALLY needs a redesign. The identity of the templar is in building an area you are strongest in, so with that in mind I'd love to see blazing provide additional protection for allies, or apply extra fire damage to allies' attacks for x seconds when you absorb damage with it.
If you know how to Tank a Templar Tank is Right up there imo at the top.
I guess all of those lousy top tier players just don’t know how to tank, must be why they avoid Templar. /sElderSmitter88 wrote: »DocFrost72 wrote: »Tyrant_Tim wrote: »UsualSurrender wrote: »2. Radiant shield works just fine, especially since they buffed it recently. Blazing shield is absolutely useless though.
Radiant Ward is still a gimmicky shield that involves being heavily outnumbered to receive enough value to help prevent a burst, which is all it can do with a 6s duration.
Did I mention wards don’t receive block mitigation? So lining your tank up with a ward as its primary source of defense completely goes against the idea of using a shield or ice staff… your staple weapons on a tank.
Templar tank needs a complete revision, which starts with Sun Shield, because right now, the class is enjoying its view of the top from the absolute bottom of the tier list.
Just a friendly reminder that these things don't work in a vacuum.
Templar tank has a lot of nice hots (including a %hp based one that also restores resources), so while yes that damage shield looks "meh" (to me it doesn't but that's your opinion) on its own, the scenario isn't going to be that simple.
A tank's job is as follows in descending order of importance:
-Taunt scary enemies, often the big bad boss and burst mobs.
-Remain alive
-Debuff enemies and buff allies.
One of the biggest misconceptions is of the "selfish" tank. It's really, really hard to design a tank that does nothing but help itself. By definition, your (most likely) taunt shreds armor for the dps and allows the healer to layer hots instead of spamming far more expensive and less efficient burst healing.
Tanks want to be as tough as they need to survive, THEN pour on the good stuff for their parties.
Doc, why is this remotely relevant to sun shield?
Because sun shield acts as an increase to max hp, using your (likely) off resource to make you tougher. A Templar tank that doesn't use sun shield by definition dies easier than a tank without it, as it protects against [burst] damage. That allows the healer to maintain hots, save their resources, and allows you to perhaps even shed a defensive set in favor of group utility.
Could it be better? I think so. I mean it already gives minor protection thanks to spear wall, but I could see it procing minor maim on activation too.
Blazing shield SPECIFICALLY needs a redesign. The identity of the templar is in building an area you are strongest in, so with that in mind I'd love to see blazing provide additional protection for allies, or apply extra fire damage to allies' attacks for x seconds when you absorb damage with it.
I cannot tell you how many times i go from DPS in a group to a Tank as other classes cannot make it thru Vet DLC dungeons quite often.
Just because you can complete content with it, doesn’t make it a compelling choice. You can complete content with any tank, of any class. Although, take your Templar tank into a Bahsei Hard Mode, where both of your healers are occupied and tell me how great of a time you’re having without a health based burst heal.
In fact, if you’re running any group with a healer, you’re absolutely useless on a Templar tank as your unique group utility is off-healing, something even Warden tanks do better.
Which is to be expected, there are two damage skill lines and one healer one, before we can see a positive change for Templar tanks, one of those skill lines will need a revision to have at least one morph dedicated to tanking for each ability.
Edited by Tyrant_Tim on September 30, 2023 8:51PM2 -
FoJul✭✭✭✭Tyrant_Tim wrote: »ElderSmitter88 wrote: »DocFrost72 wrote: »Tyrant_Tim wrote: »UsualSurrender wrote: »2. Radiant shield works just fine, especially since they buffed it recently. Blazing shield is absolutely useless though.
Radiant Ward is still a gimmicky shield that involves being heavily outnumbered to receive enough value to help prevent a burst, which is all it can do with a 6s duration.
Did I mention wards don’t receive block mitigation? So lining your tank up with a ward as its primary source of defense completely goes against the idea of using a shield or ice staff… your staple weapons on a tank.
Templar tank needs a complete revision, which starts with Sun Shield, because right now, the class is enjoying its view of the top from the absolute bottom of the tier list.
Just a friendly reminder that these things don't work in a vacuum.
Templar tank has a lot of nice hots (including a %hp based one that also restores resources), so while yes that damage shield looks "meh" (to me it doesn't but that's your opinion) on its own, the scenario isn't going to be that simple.
A tank's job is as follows in descending order of importance:
-Taunt scary enemies, often the big bad boss and burst mobs.
-Remain alive
-Debuff enemies and buff allies.
One of the biggest misconceptions is of the "selfish" tank. It's really, really hard to design a tank that does nothing but help itself. By definition, your (most likely) taunt shreds armor for the dps and allows the healer to layer hots instead of spamming far more expensive and less efficient burst healing.
Tanks want to be as tough as they need to survive, THEN pour on the good stuff for their parties.
Doc, why is this remotely relevant to sun shield?
Because sun shield acts as an increase to max hp, using your (likely) off resource to make you tougher. A Templar tank that doesn't use sun shield by definition dies easier than a tank without it, as it protects against [burst] damage. That allows the healer to maintain hots, save their resources, and allows you to perhaps even shed a defensive set in favor of group utility.
Could it be better? I think so. I mean it already gives minor protection thanks to spear wall, but I could see it procing minor maim on activation too.
Blazing shield SPECIFICALLY needs a redesign. The identity of the templar is in building an area you are strongest in, so with that in mind I'd love to see blazing provide additional protection for allies, or apply extra fire damage to allies' attacks for x seconds when you absorb damage with it.
I love my Templar Tank. I would not want to be any other Tank and have no sustain issues or survivability issues. Sun Shield is a Staple on my Bar. I am a Stamina based Tank as well. I cannot tell you how many times i go from DPS in a group to a Tank as other classes cannot make it thru Vet DLC dungeons quite often. Especially the newer ones. I have posted video's running some of the Hardest DLC Content as my Templar Tank. It is lots of fun! I agree with your Post 100%. If you know how to Tank a Templar Tank is Right up there imo at the top. Sure we can always use more as can other classes lol. Restoring Focus on my Back Bar is amazing combined with Sun Shield on my Front bar and so many other things! I could go on and on!
Is it Opposite Day? Templar tanks are the lowest tiered out of every bracket. Just because you can complete content with it, doesn’t make it a compelling choice. You can complete content with any tank, of any class. Although, take your Templar tank into a Bahsei Hard Mode, where both of your healers are occupied and tell me how great of a time you’re having without a health based burst heal.
In fact, if you’re running any group with a healer, you’re absolutely useless on a Templar tank as your unique group utility is off-healing, something even Warden tanks do better.
Which is to be expected, there are two damage skill lines and one healer one, before we can see a positive change for Templar tanks, one of those skill lines will need a revision to have at least one morph dedicated to tanking for each ability.
Actually, Nightblade is in a worse spot when it comes to *Tanking*. Nightblade is also one of the worst healers as well. Nightblade is also a bit behind on damage too.
The point is, just because it's not on top, doesn't mean it's not good. Templar has some things that other classes do not. Some areas can be more effective than other areas. For example, my Main PvE guild has a guy that tanks on a sorc. He does quite a bit of damage for a tank. He also has some group healing. He is a one tank fits all kind of tank. And before you discredit it and say *its not effective for endgame* he got almost every trifecta in the game. He had done every arena on the hardest difficulty and cleared it FLAWLESSY. Did I mention he did it on EVERY single class?
Like I said before. Just because it's not the #1 very best tank doesn't mean its bad. You can still 100% bring a templar tank if you want. If you want templar tank to be the best possible tank just say that. But that's only a wish and not an actual fix.0 -
Billium813✭✭✭✭✭
✭Tyrant_Tim wrote: »ElderSmitter88 wrote: »DocFrost72 wrote: »Tyrant_Tim wrote: »UsualSurrender wrote: »2. Radiant shield works just fine, especially since they buffed it recently. Blazing shield is absolutely useless though.
Radiant Ward is still a gimmicky shield that involves being heavily outnumbered to receive enough value to help prevent a burst, which is all it can do with a 6s duration.
Did I mention wards don’t receive block mitigation? So lining your tank up with a ward as its primary source of defense completely goes against the idea of using a shield or ice staff… your staple weapons on a tank.
Templar tank needs a complete revision, which starts with Sun Shield, because right now, the class is enjoying its view of the top from the absolute bottom of the tier list.
Just a friendly reminder that these things don't work in a vacuum.
Templar tank has a lot of nice hots (including a %hp based one that also restores resources), so while yes that damage shield looks "meh" (to me it doesn't but that's your opinion) on its own, the scenario isn't going to be that simple.
A tank's job is as follows in descending order of importance:
-Taunt scary enemies, often the big bad boss and burst mobs.
-Remain alive
-Debuff enemies and buff allies.
One of the biggest misconceptions is of the "selfish" tank. It's really, really hard to design a tank that does nothing but help itself. By definition, your (most likely) taunt shreds armor for the dps and allows the healer to layer hots instead of spamming far more expensive and less efficient burst healing.
Tanks want to be as tough as they need to survive, THEN pour on the good stuff for their parties.
Doc, why is this remotely relevant to sun shield?
Because sun shield acts as an increase to max hp, using your (likely) off resource to make you tougher. A Templar tank that doesn't use sun shield by definition dies easier than a tank without it, as it protects against [burst] damage. That allows the healer to maintain hots, save their resources, and allows you to perhaps even shed a defensive set in favor of group utility.
Could it be better? I think so. I mean it already gives minor protection thanks to spear wall, but I could see it procing minor maim on activation too.
Blazing shield SPECIFICALLY needs a redesign. The identity of the templar is in building an area you are strongest in, so with that in mind I'd love to see blazing provide additional protection for allies, or apply extra fire damage to allies' attacks for x seconds when you absorb damage with it.
I love my Templar Tank. I would not want to be any other Tank…
Is it Opposite Day? Templar tanks are the lowest tiered out of every bracket and are non-existent within any leaderboard.ElderSmitter88 wrote: »DocFrost72 wrote: »Tyrant_Tim wrote: »UsualSurrender wrote: »2. Radiant shield works just fine, especially since they buffed it recently. Blazing shield is absolutely useless though.
Radiant Ward is still a gimmicky shield that involves being heavily outnumbered to receive enough value to help prevent a burst, which is all it can do with a 6s duration.
Did I mention wards don’t receive block mitigation? So lining your tank up with a ward as its primary source of defense completely goes against the idea of using a shield or ice staff… your staple weapons on a tank.
Templar tank needs a complete revision, which starts with Sun Shield, because right now, the class is enjoying its view of the top from the absolute bottom of the tier list.
Just a friendly reminder that these things don't work in a vacuum.
Templar tank has a lot of nice hots (including a %hp based one that also restores resources), so while yes that damage shield looks "meh" (to me it doesn't but that's your opinion) on its own, the scenario isn't going to be that simple.
A tank's job is as follows in descending order of importance:
-Taunt scary enemies, often the big bad boss and burst mobs.
-Remain alive
-Debuff enemies and buff allies.
One of the biggest misconceptions is of the "selfish" tank. It's really, really hard to design a tank that does nothing but help itself. By definition, your (most likely) taunt shreds armor for the dps and allows the healer to layer hots instead of spamming far more expensive and less efficient burst healing.
Tanks want to be as tough as they need to survive, THEN pour on the good stuff for their parties.
Doc, why is this remotely relevant to sun shield?
Because sun shield acts as an increase to max hp, using your (likely) off resource to make you tougher. A Templar tank that doesn't use sun shield by definition dies easier than a tank without it, as it protects against [burst] damage. That allows the healer to maintain hots, save their resources, and allows you to perhaps even shed a defensive set in favor of group utility.
Could it be better? I think so. I mean it already gives minor protection thanks to spear wall, but I could see it procing minor maim on activation too.
Blazing shield SPECIFICALLY needs a redesign. The identity of the templar is in building an area you are strongest in, so with that in mind I'd love to see blazing provide additional protection for allies, or apply extra fire damage to allies' attacks for x seconds when you absorb damage with it.
If you know how to Tank a Templar Tank is Right up there imo at the top.
I guess all of those lousy top tier players just don’t know how to tank, must be why they avoid Templar. /sElderSmitter88 wrote: »DocFrost72 wrote: »Tyrant_Tim wrote: »UsualSurrender wrote: »2. Radiant shield works just fine, especially since they buffed it recently. Blazing shield is absolutely useless though.
Radiant Ward is still a gimmicky shield that involves being heavily outnumbered to receive enough value to help prevent a burst, which is all it can do with a 6s duration.
Did I mention wards don’t receive block mitigation? So lining your tank up with a ward as its primary source of defense completely goes against the idea of using a shield or ice staff… your staple weapons on a tank.
Templar tank needs a complete revision, which starts with Sun Shield, because right now, the class is enjoying its view of the top from the absolute bottom of the tier list.
Just a friendly reminder that these things don't work in a vacuum.
Templar tank has a lot of nice hots (including a %hp based one that also restores resources), so while yes that damage shield looks "meh" (to me it doesn't but that's your opinion) on its own, the scenario isn't going to be that simple.
A tank's job is as follows in descending order of importance:
-Taunt scary enemies, often the big bad boss and burst mobs.
-Remain alive
-Debuff enemies and buff allies.
One of the biggest misconceptions is of the "selfish" tank. It's really, really hard to design a tank that does nothing but help itself. By definition, your (most likely) taunt shreds armor for the dps and allows the healer to layer hots instead of spamming far more expensive and less efficient burst healing.
Tanks want to be as tough as they need to survive, THEN pour on the good stuff for their parties.
Doc, why is this remotely relevant to sun shield?
Because sun shield acts as an increase to max hp, using your (likely) off resource to make you tougher. A Templar tank that doesn't use sun shield by definition dies easier than a tank without it, as it protects against [burst] damage. That allows the healer to maintain hots, save their resources, and allows you to perhaps even shed a defensive set in favor of group utility.
Could it be better? I think so. I mean it already gives minor protection thanks to spear wall, but I could see it procing minor maim on activation too.
Blazing shield SPECIFICALLY needs a redesign. The identity of the templar is in building an area you are strongest in, so with that in mind I'd love to see blazing provide additional protection for allies, or apply extra fire damage to allies' attacks for x seconds when you absorb damage with it.
I cannot tell you how many times i go from DPS in a group to a Tank as other classes cannot make it thru Vet DLC dungeons quite often.
Just because you can complete content with it, doesn’t make it a compelling choice. You can complete content with any tank, of any class. Although, take your Templar tank into a Bahsei Hard Mode, where both of your healers are occupied and tell me how great of a time you’re having without a health based burst heal.
In fact, if you’re running any group with a healer, you’re absolutely useless on a Templar tank as your unique group utility is off-healing, something even Warden tanks do better.
Which is to be expected, there are two damage skill lines and one healer one, before we can see a positive change for Templar tanks, one of those skill lines will need a revision to have at least one morph dedicated to tanking for each ability.
I think you need to respect the disconnect players experience between dungeon/arena content vs trial content, and players completing content vs pushing leaderboards. Not to mention the immense differences between different trial content and specifics...
A player Templar Tanks HM vDoM and does all the mechanics. They see no issues and wonder why people are complaining. They aren't pushing times, nor care that it took 3 minutes longer then "optimal". They don't care that the overall DPS was lower then other Tanks could have made it. They play HM dungeons and see no issues themselves. There is no DPS meter equivalent for Tank... They lived, the group lived, and they killed the things. The rest doesn't matter.
Then you have Trials! Very few Tanks have ever even Tanked a Trial in the first place. You have like 8-9 DPS per run, but only 1 Tank (mostly, and off Tanking Templar can be OK). So the role has much smaller exposure to begin with. Plus, Tanking a Trial almost always requires much more experience then a player is gonna assume they have. Those players with experience... are gonna not build for Templar to begin with... Also, there is no Trial queue, so Trial content is already a niche part of the game. I would argue that a smaller percentage of the player base regularly does Trials vs PvP (and that's saying something)
Look, I get it. As someone who is at that end, end game were you are pushing scores, trying to complete the hardest PvE content the game has (Trial), and trying to build raid groups, I get that Templar is lacking. But you have to understand that your perspective is much different from the average person who just does pledges and HM and sees no issues cause "they can sufficiently complete content".
> Is there content that Templar can CAN'T do?
Perhaps!
> How many players have ever been in a situation where that matters (iow, they wanted to do that content, in that role)?
Fewer then you'd thinkEdited by Billium813 on September 30, 2023 9:05PM3 -
Tyrant_Tim✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Like I said before. Just because it's not the #1 very best tank doesn't mean it’s bad. You can still 100% bring a templar tank if you want. If you want templar tank to be the best possible tank just say that. But that's only a wish and not an actual fix.
Nobody wants Templar to be the #1 tank… we just want it to be a competitive choice. Adding one or two group buffs to its toolkit, with a rework of an ability that’s already supposed to be for a tank… Sun Shield, or a buff to Radiant Aura that makes it at least comparable to the other class skills giving Minor Recoveries is not a huge ask.Tyrant_Tim wrote: »ElderSmitter88 wrote: »DocFrost72 wrote: »Tyrant_Tim wrote: »UsualSurrender wrote: »2. Radiant shield works just fine, especially since they buffed it recently. Blazing shield is absolutely useless though.
Radiant Ward is still a gimmicky shield that involves being heavily outnumbered to receive enough value to help prevent a burst, which is all it can do with a 6s duration.
Did I mention wards don’t receive block mitigation? So lining your tank up with a ward as its primary source of defense completely goes against the idea of using a shield or ice staff… your staple weapons on a tank.
Templar tank needs a complete revision, which starts with Sun Shield, because right now, the class is enjoying its view of the top from the absolute bottom of the tier list.
Just a friendly reminder that these things don't work in a vacuum.
Templar tank has a lot of nice hots (including a %hp based one that also restores resources), so while yes that damage shield looks "meh" (to me it doesn't but that's your opinion) on its own, the scenario isn't going to be that simple.
A tank's job is as follows in descending order of importance:
-Taunt scary enemies, often the big bad boss and burst mobs.
-Remain alive
-Debuff enemies and buff allies.
One of the biggest misconceptions is of the "selfish" tank. It's really, really hard to design a tank that does nothing but help itself. By definition, your (most likely) taunt shreds armor for the dps and allows the healer to layer hots instead of spamming far more expensive and less efficient burst healing.
Tanks want to be as tough as they need to survive, THEN pour on the good stuff for their parties.
Doc, why is this remotely relevant to sun shield?
Because sun shield acts as an increase to max hp, using your (likely) off resource to make you tougher. A Templar tank that doesn't use sun shield by definition dies easier than a tank without it, as it protects against [burst] damage. That allows the healer to maintain hots, save their resources, and allows you to perhaps even shed a defensive set in favor of group utility.
Could it be better? I think so. I mean it already gives minor protection thanks to spear wall, but I could see it procing minor maim on activation too.
Blazing shield SPECIFICALLY needs a redesign. The identity of the templar is in building an area you are strongest in, so with that in mind I'd love to see blazing provide additional protection for allies, or apply extra fire damage to allies' attacks for x seconds when you absorb damage with it.
I love my Templar Tank. I would not want to be any other Tank and have no sustain issues or survivability issues. Sun Shield is a Staple on my Bar. I am a Stamina based Tank as well. I cannot tell you how many times i go from DPS in a group to a Tank as other classes cannot make it thru Vet DLC dungeons quite often. Especially the newer ones. I have posted video's running some of the Hardest DLC Content as my Templar Tank. It is lots of fun! I agree with your Post 100%. If you know how to Tank a Templar Tank is Right up there imo at the top. Sure we can always use more as can other classes lol. Restoring Focus on my Back Bar is amazing combined with Sun Shield on my Front bar and so many other things! I could go on and on!
Is it Opposite Day? Templar tanks are the lowest tiered out of every bracket. Just because you can complete content with it, doesn’t make it a compelling choice. You can complete content with any tank, of any class. Although, take your Templar tank into a Bahsei Hard Mode, where both of your healers are occupied and tell me how great of a time you’re having without a health based burst heal.
In fact, if you’re running any group with a healer, you’re absolutely useless on a Templar tank as your unique group utility is off-healing, something even Warden tanks do better.
Which is to be expected, there are two damage skill lines and one healer one, before we can see a positive change for Templar tanks, one of those skill lines will need a revision to have at least one morph dedicated to tanking for each ability.
Actually, Nightblade is in a worse spot when it comes to *Tanking*. Nightblade is also one of the worst healers as well. Nightblade is also a bit behind on damage too.
If you want to bring up Nightblade as means to degrade the argument, or push back against much needed changes for Templar tank… sure Nightblade tank is not great right now either and as a result you don’t see me arguing against a buff to Mark Target for better group utility.
Even though Nightblade is less survivable than Templar… at least Nightblade has access to an AoE Minor Vulnerability along with both Minor and Major Cowardice then Major Expedition with both Minor Recoveries attached to it. You can make the argument to bring that tank into trials that don’t require a burst heal, and even pique a few people’s interest, trust me… I play one from time to time. Especially in Halls of Fabrication… Lotus Fan is phenomenal when you get punched to center by the Assembly General.
Whereas you bring up Templar tank and people straight up laugh at you. Whenever I’m in core, that’s one of my go-to jokes. I threaten everyone that I’ll get off my tank and get on my MemePlar and just topple around everywhere with Tormentor and Rushing Agony AoE taunting everything.
That’s what a Templar tank is in end-game trials, a means to get laughed at. Sure you might find a group that’s accepting of your choice, and might even make accommodations for you, but until the class sees some positive adjustment catered to the playstyle, you will see me pushing for it.
I want to main a Templar tank.
I want to be competitive.
I want those to be synonymous.
Also forgot to mention, Sorc tanks are amazing, they give the whole group Major Berserk, group-wide Minor Recoveries, they have a skill that adds 40% block mitigation to your already 50% totaling 90% mit when you need it while having access to an in-class AoE root with class passives that boost your resource recovery and Max Health drastically.
It’s overall a great class tank wise and for certain content it is optimal to be a Sorc tank.Edited by Tyrant_Tim on October 1, 2023 4:09AM4 -
Tyrant_Tim✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Literally zero combat changes this week, there isn’t even a section for it…Edited by Tyrant_Tim on October 2, 2023 6:39PM2 -
TechMaybeHic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Tyrant_Tim wrote: »Literally zero combat changes this week, there isn’t even a section for it…
They did adjust some sets though. Now I will know whether its enemy or friendly when I am shocked to see someone using a sorc class setEdited by TechMaybeHic on October 2, 2023 7:04PM4 -
Tyrant_Tim✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭TechMaybeHic wrote: »Tyrant_Tim wrote: »Literally zero combat changes this week, there isn’t even a section for it…
The did adjust some sets though. Now I will know whether its enemy or friendly when I am shocked to see someone using a sorc class set
Lmao, I’m actually crying. 😂1 -
grzes848909✭✭✭TechMaybeHic wrote: »Tyrant_Tim wrote: »Literally zero combat changes this week, there isn’t even a section for it…
The did adjust some sets though. Now I will know whether its enemy or friendly when I am shocked to see someone using a sorc class set
as if you are ever going to see anyone using that set in the first place
3 -
Billium813✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm confuse what everyone expected... After patch vX.Y.0 drops, we all know what we are going to be working with during this PTS. If the changes weren't included in the first patch, then they aren't going to be added in the middle of the PTS cycle... That just isn't how any of this works! ZOS views the PTS cycle as ONLY a refinement of their changes in that first PTS patch notes. That's it.1 -
tincanman✭✭✭✭✭
✭...Actually, Nightblade is in a worse spot when it comes to *Tanking*. Nightblade is also one of the worst healers as well. Nightblade is also a bit behind on damage too...
Have to disagree on both points: nb tanks have a fairly eclectic toolkit these days (took long enough to get crowd control, though) although they do lack somewhat(ok, a lot) in providing group buffs via passives. nb healers are among the strongest right now, particularly with the ultimate generating factory set (I forget its name), the super-strong burst heal that buffs healing(major/minor mending? - wish I brought my memory today), refresh path provides healing(hot) and +15% stam/mag regen as well as being beloved by dungeon speed-runners etc
On the topic of templars:- I'd really like to see the jabs/sweeps animation fixed/reverted
- no cast times for ANY ultimate but specifically crescent sweep
- master ritualist passive reworked to provide, well, anything really. currently it's a legacy of a legacy that's a waste of skill points.
4 -
grzes848909✭✭✭Billium813 wrote: »I'm confuse what everyone expected... After patch vX.Y.0 drops, we all know what we are going to be working with during this PTS. If the changes weren't included in the first patch, then they aren't going to be added in the middle of the PTS cycle... That just isn't how any of this works! ZOS views the PTS cycle as ONLY a refinement of their changes in that first PTS patch notes. That's it.
so when are we going to get some balance changes then ?0 -
Billium813✭✭✭✭✭
✭@grzes848909Never 😭🤣🥺
this.
ZOS doesn't seem to play Templar and doesn't seem to read these discussions either. There's no point in getting upset now at v9.2.2 though. Patch v9.2.0 was the evidence that they aren't listening. Checking back in each week and expecting new Templar changes is just gonna make people mad.
1 -
Billium813✭✭✭✭✭
✭Unless they buff DK or NB, like they used to
TBH, I was really excited when they added Major Berserk to DK Chains of Devastation. Not because I think DK needed a buff. I was excited because of their reason!In chatting with the dev team, we wanted to highlight the Chain of Devastation morph was one of the least used abilities in the DK's arsenal. The change was less about buffing the class, and more about creating better incentive to use this underutilized ability more.
I was really excited that the dev team was looking into incentivizing under used skills and morphs! That sounded fantastic to me and a great opportunity to pitch some Templar changes!
... 10 months later, no changes to Blazing Shield or Unstable Core. There is no way either of these morphs see any play. They are total garbage morphs. Blazing Shield is top/bottom worse then Radiant Ward. Unstable Core is so bad that the Templar NPCs in the game cast their own unique version...
Instead, we get a Radiant Glory changes no one was asking for. It just feels like a real missed opportunity and bad prioritization IMO. As well as bad communication.2 -
KlauthWarthog✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Do you like to spam beam? Well, too bad, because that is the one and only thing worth doing on a templar nowadays.2
