Disabling crown gifting is a bad idea

sarahthes

SimonThesis wrote: »

Aislinna wrote: »

How often do you need ZOS to post "We are working on the issue and will let you know when we have something new to share."?

Squeaky wheels tend to get fixed. The problem is months/years could go by without them having anything new to share. There are plenty of long standing issues the Devs have promised to keep us updated on and yet they all seem to have been forgotten.

They will not choose.to lose money for months/years. Crown trading was incredibly profitable for them until bad actors increased in number. Even if this takes longer to fix than people would like, something will happen sooner rather than later.

Amottica

VinnyGambini wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

LesserCircle wrote: »

It's Joever guys, they are not going to implement this back in and with all possible customization options being locked into the crown store many people will leave the game.

I guess I am to old to know what Joever is, but I expect that some players will leave. However, most will remain as the game does not revolve around the crown store.

Also, Zenimax realizes they have a loss in revenue. The extra crowns sold for the purpose of gifting/selling are lost. They take this issue much more seriously than any player does.

You sure?

Month has passed. There were 2 posts: "forseeable future" and "soon". No actions.

[snip]
[edited for bashing]

There have been a lot more than two posts. A lot more. The main thread Zenimax used to keep us updated, which did not show a lot of progress, has been released since the situation has changed from only gifting crates.

Even then, until they get to the point where they are almost ready to test a solution or a possible ETA for a solution it is a waste of time to repeat similar messages over and over.

dcrush

Amottica wrote: »

VinnyGambini wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

LesserCircle wrote: »

It's Joever guys, they are not going to implement this back in and with all possible customization options being locked into the crown store many people will leave the game.

I guess I am to old to know what Joever is, but I expect that some players will leave. However, most will remain as the game does not revolve around the crown store.

Also, Zenimax realizes they have a loss in revenue. The extra crowns sold for the purpose of gifting/selling are lost. They take this issue much more seriously than any player does.

You sure?

Month has passed. There were 2 posts: "forseeable future" and "soon". No actions.

[snip]
[edited for bashing]

There have been a lot more than two posts. A lot more. The main thread Zenimax used to keep us updated, which did not show a lot of progress, has been released since the situation has changed from only gifting crates.

Even then, until they get to the point where they are almost ready to test a solution or a possible ETA for a solution it is a waste of time to repeat similar messages over and over.

While that’s understandable, it also means that people like me who liked to make gold in order to get crown store gifts will lose interest in the game more and more the longer it takes to fix this.

spartaxoxo

It's never a waste of time to update a customer that you're still working on an issue, when the work taking place is out of their view and the wait delay is long.

VinnyGambini

Amottica wrote: »

VinnyGambini wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

LesserCircle wrote: »

It's Joever guys, they are not going to implement this back in and with all possible customization options being locked into the crown store many people will leave the game.

I guess I am to old to know what Joever is, but I expect that some players will leave. However, most will remain as the game does not revolve around the crown store.

Also, Zenimax realizes they have a loss in revenue. The extra crowns sold for the purpose of gifting/selling are lost. They take this issue much more seriously than any player does.

You sure?

Month has passed. There were 2 posts: "forseeable future" and "soon". No actions.

[snip]
[edited for bashing]

There have been a lot more than two posts. A lot more. The main thread Zenimax used to keep us updated, which did not show a lot of progress, has been released since the situation has changed from only gifting crates.

Even then, until they get to the point where they are almost ready to test a solution or a possible ETA for a solution it is a waste of time to repeat similar messages over and over.

I dont want messages, I want actions. There was no actions for month. I dont want to be rude, but please be serious - major issues should be done right away, not after 1 month or year. This way game will die.

wolfie1.0.

VinnyGambini wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

VinnyGambini wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

LesserCircle wrote: »

It's Joever guys, they are not going to implement this back in and with all possible customization options being locked into the crown store many people will leave the game.

I guess I am to old to know what Joever is, but I expect that some players will leave. However, most will remain as the game does not revolve around the crown store.

Also, Zenimax realizes they have a loss in revenue. The extra crowns sold for the purpose of gifting/selling are lost. They take this issue much more seriously than any player does.

You sure?

Month has passed. There were 2 posts: "forseeable future" and "soon". No actions.

[snip]
[edited for bashing]

There have been a lot more than two posts. A lot more. The main thread Zenimax used to keep us updated, which did not show a lot of progress, has been released since the situation has changed from only gifting crates.

Even then, until they get to the point where they are almost ready to test a solution or a possible ETA for a solution it is a waste of time to repeat similar messages over and over.

I dont want messages, I want actions. There was no actions for month. I dont want to be rude, but please be serious - major issues should be done right away, not after 1 month or year. This way game will die.

Major actions take time and expertise. You can't reasonably expect game developers to engineer a fraud prevention service on the fly, do it quickly, and have it done right.

These things take time, effort, and money to be done right. They already exhausted their quick fix of having customer support handle things and see how well that went over.

Better it be done right and take proper time.

Granted there are things that zos could do while we all wait. Discounted crown packs, discounted priced in the crown store, etc. But we will see

Einar_Hrafnarsson

Well, in my humble opinion, the massive amount of fraudulent behaviour only happens because the crown store is so incredibly expensive.

FFXIV makes a huge chunk of its money from fantasias. (Character+race+genderchange in whatever way you like)

It is 7 bucks. Because it is only 7 bucks, way more people buy them. I knew people who buy them on a weekly basis because "its only 7 bucks"

You couldnt buy even a single one of those services in ESO for 7 bucks.

Katzenzunge

Einar_Hrafnarsson wrote: »

Well, in my humble opinion, the massive amount of fraudulent behaviour only happens because the crown store is so incredibly expensive.

FFXIV makes a huge chunk of its money from fantasias. (Character+race+genderchange in whatever way you like)

It is 7 bucks. Because it is only 7 bucks, way more people buy them. I knew people who buy them on a weekly basis because "its only 7 bucks"

You couldnt buy even a single one of those services in ESO for 7 bucks.

I absolutely agree with that.
Not to minimize the fraud happening or pretending it's not an issue, but yeah. I think that's a major part of what drives people to it.

I get companies trying to maximise profit, and as long as people buy it, it kinda works; I guess.

But as you said, I'd bet more people would regularly buy stuff if it'd be "smaller" increments.

I fell into the same way of thinking with other games/stuff, like "Yeah, it's 5 bucks, *** it." or even "10? Yeah sure" load up ten on steam, and never think about it again.

But 20-30€? Now that's an amount I'll have to think about and really decide on, for "but it's only a game"-stuff.

TaSheen

I doubt it's players trying to get around high CS pricing that caused this. From things said various places, it's people using crowns to scam in obtaining real world CASH by selling crowns and gold. Lots of gold seller ads popped up the minute they did the Epic deal, sadly. Wasn't long after that they shut down all gifting.

Katzenzunge

I don't see why these two arguments should exclude each other from being a possibility.

People try to get around paying full price, and start looking around for 3rd party-sites.
These sites exist because there is the possibility for "scamming" crowns which ties to real world money-scams/fraud.
People sell crown items/gold for real money, because they obtain the money to buy the crowns through scams.


I'm not trying to be contrarian, don't misunderstand me.
I don't know if what I said makes the point I am trying to make.

TaSheen

Besessenes wrote: »

I don't see why these two arguments should exclude each other from being a possibility.

People try to get around paying full price, and start looking around for 3rd party-sites.
These sites exist because there is the possibility for "scamming" crowns which ties to real world money-scams/fraud.
People sell crown items/gold for real money, because they obtain the money to buy the crowns through scams.


I'm not trying to be contrarian, don't misunderstand me.
I don't know if what I said makes the point I am trying to make.

It doesn't exclude them from possiblility - it's just that gold seller sites are a LOT bigger issue with this than players trying to get CS items gifted to them for gold.

In game currency selling has been big time money for bad actors since the first MMOs. I started playing WoW in 2006 - guess what the first in game message I got was? I'm quite sure it's always been an issue in some amount for ESO as well - but the fact that gifting got shut down overnight with no notice (after crate gifting had already been on pause for months) means there was a HUGE uptick in scams by gold selling websites.

Katzenzunge

Yeah, agree with that.

I've also played many other MMOs, and yes, one of the first thing I remember seeing in almost every zone chat are gold-sellers.

I personally have not seen an uptick in those things since the epic thing, but that's on me not paying attention to zone chat at all the last months, since I'm currently doing all the zones and pretending it's a single-player game

But yes, there had to be a reason they decided to suddenly and completely shut down the gifting.

TaSheen

After reading some of the posts about how much gold seller spam was in chat from several sites, I reactivated zone chat just to see for myself (because I generally don't just take stuff on faith in a game) - because the FIRST thing I do in an MMO is deactivate zone chat of course.

I was actually appalled at how bad it really was. FAR worse than anything I ever saw in WoW and later RIFT.... Since it popped up in the forum posting practically instantaneously with the Epic "event", well.... that tends to make me believer the two are very much related.

Kirawolfe

The crown gifting page in game now says that you can gift if you've purchased a crown pack, have ESO plus, and it's been 30 days and you've received an approved message?

Is that new?

Sythen88411

So 30 days from now?

TaSheen

It's always been that way IIRC. They apparently didn't change the page with the pause of crown store gifting. I wouldn't hold my breath on it returning in 30 days. Matt will probably make a stickied announcement again when something changes.

Elsonso

.

TaSheen wrote: »

It's always been that way IIRC. They apparently didn't change the page with the pause of crown store gifting. I wouldn't hold my breath on it returning in 30 days. Matt will probably make a stickied announcement again when something changes.

Well, seems to me that Gina did mention that they are testing things on PTS right now. I suppose that if those are fruitful, it might roll out with Update 40?

danko355

Sythen88411 wrote: »

So 30 days from now?

I've just purchased a pack of crowns to check if the 30 days timer would start, but didn't receive any in-game notifications so far. I assume nothing has changed.

tmbrinks

Kirawolfe wrote: »

The crown gifting page in game now says that you can gift if you've purchased a crown pack, have ESO plus, and it's been 30 days and you've received an approved message?

Is that new?

No, that has long been the gifting policy.

30 days from the time of your first real money purchase giving you crowns, whether that's from a crown pack, or from ESO+.

Reverb

Tra_Lalan wrote: »

If someone is stealing at your shop and you can't catch the thief, you don't put into jail all your customers, do you? But that is just how they work.

They’re following the Walgreens business model. Can’t manage theft, so lock all customers out of the merchandise.

More and more Walgreens have 100% of their merchandise behind locks and unable to be bought with out flagging down an employee and having them walk with you to unlock cases as you shop. The unintended (or maybe intended) result is that people are just shopping somewhere else.

Maybe thieves are going to Walmart and target along with the shoppers, and maybe scammers and other bad actors are leaving ESO to go Diablo, or back to New World or Lost Ark, or wherever along with other players.

For both companies it’s a question of how many legitimate customers you’re willing to lose in order to stop theft. It’s encouraging loss in order to mitigate loss, and only people with data we can’t see can know if it’s a good strategy or not.

Amottica

dcrush wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

VinnyGambini wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

LesserCircle wrote: »

It's Joever guys, they are not going to implement this back in and with all possible customization options being locked into the crown store many people will leave the game.

I guess I am to old to know what Joever is, but I expect that some players will leave. However, most will remain as the game does not revolve around the crown store.

Also, Zenimax realizes they have a loss in revenue. The extra crowns sold for the purpose of gifting/selling are lost. They take this issue much more seriously than any player does.

You sure?

Month has passed. There were 2 posts: "forseeable future" and "soon". No actions.

[snip]
[edited for bashing]

There have been a lot more than two posts. A lot more. The main thread Zenimax used to keep us updated, which did not show a lot of progress, has been released since the situation has changed from only gifting crates.

Even then, until they get to the point where they are almost ready to test a solution or a possible ETA for a solution it is a waste of time to repeat similar messages over and over.

While that’s understandable, it also means that people like me who liked to make gold in order to get crown store gifts will lose interest in the game more and more the longer it takes to fix this.

And Zenimax is losing revenue as a result. So it is clear what their priority is. It really is that simple.

dcrush

Amottica wrote: »

dcrush wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

VinnyGambini wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

LesserCircle wrote: »

It's Joever guys, they are not going to implement this back in and with all possible customization options being locked into the crown store many people will leave the game.

I guess I am to old to know what Joever is, but I expect that some players will leave. However, most will remain as the game does not revolve around the crown store.

Also, Zenimax realizes they have a loss in revenue. The extra crowns sold for the purpose of gifting/selling are lost. They take this issue much more seriously than any player does.

You sure?

Month has passed. There were 2 posts: "forseeable future" and "soon". No actions.

[snip]
[edited for bashing]

There have been a lot more than two posts. A lot more. The main thread Zenimax used to keep us updated, which did not show a lot of progress, has been released since the situation has changed from only gifting crates.

Even then, until they get to the point where they are almost ready to test a solution or a possible ETA for a solution it is a waste of time to repeat similar messages over and over.

While that’s understandable, it also means that people like me who liked to make gold in order to get crown store gifts will lose interest in the game more and more the longer it takes to fix this.

And Zenimax is losing revenue as a result. So it is clear what their priority is. It really is that simple.

Yep. There’s a furnishing pack in the store right now that I’ve been waiting for for more than a year (because of their FOMO marketing approach, which is another discussion) but I guess I won’t be getting it. So, more lost revenue for ZOS.

zaria

Amottica wrote: »

dcrush wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

VinnyGambini wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

LesserCircle wrote: »

It's Joever guys, they are not going to implement this back in and with all possible customization options being locked into the crown store many people will leave the game.

I guess I am to old to know what Joever is, but I expect that some players will leave. However, most will remain as the game does not revolve around the crown store.

Also, Zenimax realizes they have a loss in revenue. The extra crowns sold for the purpose of gifting/selling are lost. They take this issue much more seriously than any player does.

You sure?

Month has passed. There were 2 posts: "forseeable future" and "soon". No actions.

[snip]
[edited for bashing]

There have been a lot more than two posts. A lot more. The main thread Zenimax used to keep us updated, which did not show a lot of progress, has been released since the situation has changed from only gifting crates.

Even then, until they get to the point where they are almost ready to test a solution or a possible ETA for a solution it is a waste of time to repeat similar messages over and over.

While that’s understandable, it also means that people like me who liked to make gold in order to get crown store gifts will lose interest in the game more and more the longer it takes to fix this.

And Zenimax is losing revenue as a result. So it is clear what their priority is. It really is that simple.

Yes and while most buying crowns will not stop playing ZoS will loose out on sales.
The changes where gifting is no longer disabled all over but instead all accounts has it disabled probably indicate they are not so far from an fix in some way. Simplest is probably to increase the requirements.

Elsonso

zaria wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

And Zenimax is losing revenue as a result. So it is clear what their priority is. It really is that simple.

Yes and while most buying crowns will not stop playing ZoS will loose out on sales.
The changes where gifting is no longer disabled all over but instead all accounts has it disabled probably indicate they are not so far from an fix in some way. Simplest is probably to increase the requirements.

I have wondered since the start of all this how the Crown sales to buy gifts for gold stacks up against the Crown sales not for use in gifting. One of the things that I considered is whether the fraud that was happening inflated the popularity of gifting, and that once this is resolved, there won't be as many Crowns out there available for use in gifting to people.

I see a lot of comments that people have nothing to spend their gold on, or that they won't be able to get a certain Crown Store / Crown Crate item. I don't recall nearly as many comments from people who are unable to get gold in exchange for their Crowns.

It will be interesting to see what ZOS has done, provided they can tell us, or we can figure out. It will also be interesting to see if there is a shortage of Crowns because all of the fraudulent buyers are out of the picture, and what these Crowns gifts will sell for as a result.

VinnyGambini

Elsonso wrote: »

.

TaSheen wrote: »

It's always been that way IIRC. They apparently didn't change the page with the pause of crown store gifting. I wouldn't hold my breath on it returning in 30 days. Matt will probably make a stickied announcement again when something changes.

Well, seems to me that Gina did mention that they are testing things on PTS right now. I suppose that if those are fruitful, it might roll out with Update 40?

Can anybody confirm this?

Ingenon

Elsonso wrote: »

I see a lot of comments that people have nothing to spend their gold on, or that they won't be able to get a certain Crown Store / Crown Crate item. I don't recall nearly as many comments from people who are unable to get gold in exchange for their Crowns.

Like you, I see lots of comments from people who have nothing to spend their gold on, but do not see many comments from people who are unable to exchange crowns for gold. I get crowns from my ESO Plus, but I spend them on stuff I want. And the amount I get over a year would not cover the amount of crowns that I have seen some folks say they were buying with gold. I wonder how much of the crown supply (for sale to others) was coming originally from the scammers who were not paying for the crowns (using stolen credit cards or charge backs to get crowns for free).

VanLo83

Einar_Hrafnarsson wrote: »

Well, in my humble opinion, the massive amount of fraudulent behaviour only happens because the crown store is so incredibly expensive.

FFXIV makes a huge chunk of its money from fantasias. (Character+race+genderchange in whatever way you like)

It is 7 bucks. Because it is only 7 bucks, way more people buy them. I knew people who buy them on a weekly basis because "its only 7 bucks"

You couldnt buy even a single one of those services in ESO for 7 bucks.

I agree with this, the shop is way overpriced. People would also be a lot more inclined to buy stuff from the shop directly instead of going to dodgy sites if ZOS would rethink the prizes on the shop...

sleepy_worm

Elsonso wrote: »

I see a lot of comments that people have nothing to spend their gold on, or that they won't be able to get a certain Crown Store / Crown Crate item. I don't recall nearly as many comments from people who are unable to get gold in exchange for their Crowns.

You can not currently buy crown store items for cash on external websites. You can currently buy gold for cash on external websites. I don't think anyone I know is involved in this behavior, but it perhaps explains some of the difference in response.

An anecdote. I sent the person I buy crowns from some gold to help with their housing budget because I know they're hurting right now. We're both spending less on ESO than before this change.

sarahthes

sleepy_worm wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

I see a lot of comments that people have nothing to spend their gold on, or that they won't be able to get a certain Crown Store / Crown Crate item. I don't recall nearly as many comments from people who are unable to get gold in exchange for their Crowns.

You can not currently buy crown store items for cash on external websites. You can currently buy gold for cash on external websites. I don't think anyone I know is involved in this behavior, but it perhaps explains some of the difference in response.

An anecdote. I sent the person I buy crowns from some gold to help with their housing budget because I know they're hurting right now. We're both spending less on ESO than before this change.

People who RMT gold don't exactly advertise it but it's more common than you think.

It's not something I would do, as I value my account and would be peeved if something happened to it. But I definitely have known people who were involved with the trade.

ZOS_Kevin

Hello all. We have provided an update to Crown Crate Gifting. You can find the link to the update here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/644559/crown-store-gifting-update-october-2023