Disabling crown gifting is a bad idea

Tommy_The_Gun

Personally, I have never gift/were gifted with crown store stuff, so I am kinda neutral on this. But I can say this:

A: It is a bad change if it will cause prices of stuff go up somehow.
B: It is a good change if it will "fix" the economy and reduce prices of stuff (stuff at guild traders, even from older +5 year content is way more expensive now vs when it was new, motives that were around 10K gold are now 80K gold etc).

thehilanderb14a_ESO

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

This has been an interesting read, as in all the years of playing, crowns (or items) / gold exchange has never been a part of my game, or most of the people I know & play with.

Is this a big part of pc playing, as it does not seem to be a thing on consoles (happy to learn if not the case).

If something comes in the crown store I don’t have the crowns for, then I don’t buy it. I definitely don’t waste my crowns on gamble crates as I heartily despise them.

So whilst I appreciate it may be annoying to lose the ability to do this, I have to say I don’t understand why people are so despairing angry.

It’s definitely not limited to PC - I’ve purchased hundreds of thousands of crowns on the PS version. (Incidentally, the price is much better there too with a typical rate being 100 gold for 1 crown as opposed to PC selling for 1200-1500).

The thing is that once you have played for half a decade or more, there is not a whole lot left to do in the game other than acquire stuff from the Crown Store. Once you’ve run all the dungeons a million times and filled your stickerbook, decked out an entire roster of character in hold tier gear, finished all the storylines, collected all the skyshards, etc - all that is left is to accumulate wealth. And there isn’t really a built in gold sink for that wealth. If I were to run a dungeon/trial, I don’t need the loot it drops or even really the XP (since you can only equip 4 CP nodes from each tree and there’s a limited number of passively active nodes). All I gain from the activity is an ever increasing pile of gold and crafting mats with nowhere to spend it - unless I can use that gold to buy Crowns from someone to get stuff from the Crown Store. Maybe a new house to decorate that there is no way I would spend $140 to buy, but would gladly drop a couple million extra gold on.

SkaraMinoc

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Personally, I have never gift/were gifted with crown store stuff, so I am kinda neutral on this. But I can say this:

A: It is a bad change if it will cause prices of stuff go up somehow.
B: It is a good change if it will "fix" the economy and reduce prices of stuff (stuff at guild traders, even from older +5 year content is way more expensive now vs when it was new, motives that were around 10K gold are now 80K gold etc).

It's B.

Demand goes down because gold is more difficult to obtain. Supply goes up because more players have to farm.

Prices have already started to drop.

zaria

finehair wrote: »

Make crown purchased items count as tradeable "seals" which gives the purchased crown store item when opened.
Let's say I purchase wrathstone dlc in crown store. It gives me seal of wrathstone. I can put this seal on guild store, trade with other players etc.
Boom now you have created a whole new economy which prevents crown scamming. Also crown prices will be more competitive in terms of gold, since it is now on guild stores people can go for cheaper option, however since it's still real money it won't go for like 10 golds each crown.
Also now there is a gold sink which prevents infinite amount of gold players are trading between each other. Since you sell items through guild store, the tax gold will be lost to the gods of trading.

This is an interesting variation of mine idea of making boxed of crowns tradable.
You idea is likely a bit more complicated but it has some benefits. Its let players buy crown items for sale later, creating an new economy as you say.
Both methods are as scam proof as other sales.

zaria

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Personally, I have never gift/were gifted with crown store stuff, so I am kinda neutral on this. But I can say this:

A: It is a bad change if it will cause prices of stuff go up somehow.
B: It is a good change if it will "fix" the economy and reduce prices of stuff (stuff at guild traders, even from older +5 year content is way more expensive now vs when it was new, motives that were around 10K gold are now 80K gold etc).

It's B.

Demand goes down because gold is more difficult to obtain. Supply goes up because more players have to farm.

Prices have already started to drop.

I think you are correct, players who tended to buy gold for crowns does not have gold anymore and they tend to be big spenders. Housing including guild halls, subsiding an guild or making new builds all the time.

manukartofanu

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Personally, I have never gift/were gifted with crown store stuff, so I am kinda neutral on this. But I can say this:

A: It is a bad change if it will cause prices of stuff go up somehow.
B: It is a good change if it will "fix" the economy and reduce prices of stuff (stuff at guild traders, even from older +5 year content is way more expensive now vs when it was new, motives that were around 10K gold are now 80K gold etc).

It's B.

Demand goes down because gold is more difficult to obtain. Supply goes up because more players have to farm.

Prices have already started to drop.

Prices are dropping since the new chapter release. It has nothing to do with gift ban.

muscle_witch

manukartofanu wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Personally, I have never gift/were gifted with crown store stuff, so I am kinda neutral on this. But I can say this:

A: It is a bad change if it will cause prices of stuff go up somehow.
B: It is a good change if it will "fix" the economy and reduce prices of stuff (stuff at guild traders, even from older +5 year content is way more expensive now vs when it was new, motives that were around 10K gold are now 80K gold etc).

It's B.

Demand goes down because gold is more difficult to obtain. Supply goes up because more players have to farm.

Prices have already started to drop.

Prices are dropping since the new chapter release. It has nothing to do with gift ban.

Arguably, the gifting ban is going to cause prices to increase, because that's what happens whenever there's a player exodus - fewer people are farming, more market share gets snapped up by the few guilds that are dedicated to this kind of thing, and it is in their interest to keep prices climbing

Ingenon

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

This has been an interesting read, as in all the years of playing, crowns (or items) / gold exchange has never been a part of my game, or most of the people I know & play with.

Is this a big part of pc playing, as it does not seem to be a thing on consoles (happy to learn if not the case).

I use the gold I gain in game to buy housing items, either plans or mats. Even houses. Not much else. Don’t need to.

If something comes in the crown store I don’t have the crowns for, then I don’t buy it. I definitely don’t waste my crowns on gamble crates as I heartily despise them.

So whilst I appreciate it may be annoying to lose the ability to do this, I have to say I don’t understand why people are so despairing angry.

(Personally I would like to see more things able to buy in game, or in the crown store for considerably less crowns. Crates should just go.)

And just to add, if the fraudulent activity has anything to do with possible money laundering, then Zos has to take it very seriously as they cannot be seen to be even remotely involved in this.

After reading your post, I decided to ask in guild chat or discord in the guilds that I am a member. Very few people spoke up about this crown/gold exchange being a big concern to them. All of these guilds have hundreds of members. I play on PS/NA.

thehilanderb14a_ESO

Ingenon wrote: »

After reading your post, I decided to ask in guild chat or discord in the guilds that I am a member. Very few people spoke up about this crown/gold exchange being a big concern to them. All of these guilds have hundreds of members. I play on PS/NA.

It’s going to depend on what circles you run with. If you are in groups with mostly lower level players or players that are newer to the game that still have alot of things to do and/or collect there will be less interest in buying crowns. If you are in a housing guild, where players want all the new shinies that come out, interest will be a lot higher, however. Same goes for players that have been playing longer and have already completed most if not all of the content.

The problem is not that 3/4 of the players are going to quit over this today. The problem is that players are going to be less likely to keep their sub for years. People will “finish” the game and drift away sooner than they would have otherwise because they have nothing left to strive for. With an MMO you don’t want a constant turnover of players where everyone hits level cap then fades away - you want people playing long term.

Susan_Sto

I'm a member of a major trading guild on PC EU and they dropped their minimum sales requirements after the ban was announced.

Sales may be down but I expect that competition for pitches will also be down as there were guilds boosting their bids with gold from crown sales not just typical game trades.

Kiyakotari

Amusingly, the September Crown Store Showcase includes this little nugget. I know that ZOS doesn't have a strong history with regards to accuracy, but...come on, guys. Really?

"Single Event Tickets will be available in the Crown Store on all platforms for a limited time during the Undaunted Celebration and Secrets of the Telvanni. Stay tuned for event details! Event Tickets are also giftable to other players from within the Crown Store."

Katheriah

It's bad, but I can't pretend to be surprised.

Susan_Sto

Kiyakotari wrote: »

Amusingly, the September Crown Store Showcase includes this little nugget. I know that ZOS doesn't have a strong history with regards to accuracy, but...come on, guys. Really?

"Single Event Tickets will be available in the Crown Store on all platforms for a limited time during the Undaunted Celebration and Secrets of the Telvanni. Stay tuned for event details! Event Tickets are also giftable to other players from within the Crown Store."

Guess we're not going to get a gifting event for crates then 😉

sarahthes

Susan_Sto wrote: »

Kiyakotari wrote: »

Amusingly, the September Crown Store Showcase includes this little nugget. I know that ZOS doesn't have a strong history with regards to accuracy, but...come on, guys. Really?

"Single Event Tickets will be available in the Crown Store on all platforms for a limited time during the Undaunted Celebration and Secrets of the Telvanni. Stay tuned for event details! Event Tickets are also giftable to other players from within the Crown Store."

Guess we're not going to get a gifting event for crates then 😉

Would be cool if they turned on gifting just for event tickets.

Daoin

Soarora wrote: »

I understand that ZOS wants to “combat fraud” but between crate gifting taking months to fix, the seemingly random decision to block crate gifting on consoles, and now this, it does look incredibly suspicious. PR is already bad, I foresee this being another AWA or U35 level situation. Just because they can, doesn’t mean they should, because realistically they’re not going to get any money if no ones playing their game.
This completely ruined my plan to buy the remaining DLCs I’m missing during the undaunted event. Dungeons are primarily why I play, and now I’m not sure how much longer I can keep playing. I’ll probably just end up skipping the undaunted event entirely, and I was excited for it.

just a matter of digging into your own pocket instead of someone elses

shadyjane62

I always wanted to use my gold to buy ingame tokens like they can in wow. I stayed there for far longer than I would have if I had to pay a sub. I have subbed for 10 years but have reached the end of the line in giving Zos real life money.

It is simple not worth it.

However should they ever fix the "stuck in combat" bug I would reconsider.

evymyu233

i think zos should let people recieve gifts first,or the gifts will overdue.

Bethgael

majulook wrote: »

When they allowed the gifting and basically OKed Gold for Crowns, but did not make it actually available to do in the U/I or somewhere else that actually in the game other than player chat. They could not see the extremely high possibility of scamming, fraud, and other shenanigans?

Agreed. It seems to me that the solution to this is very simple: Have an option to COD on crowns. If the crowns aren't sent/fewer crowns than were agreed to were sent, RTS, no gold is payable. If the gold isn't paid (in fewer than the usual 30 days), the crowns go back to the original seller. Sure, the individual who bought the crowns still had to pony up RL$ or their sub for said crowns, but this way, they can just advertise them.

Then the person buying the crowns uses them for what they wanted.

And then keep the ability to gift items themselves open for those who want to send out prizes/actually gift things.

Unless, have I missed something?

Murderhound

SilverBride wrote: »

muscle_witch wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Darzaka wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

How are any of these things going to help find a solution for the fraud that caused this decision in the first place?

It's not going to. I'm not on ZOS's team; I literally cannot do or offer a meaningful solution to what you're asking of me. But curtailing finances/PR/player influx for the duration of *their* work incentivizes companies to make the dry spell shorter.

No, it doesn't.

ZoS is being negatively impacted by this, too. I'm sure they want this resolved as soon as possible. These suggestions aren't going to make a solution appear any faster.

You're acting like we, the players, somehow need to help ZOS stop fraud beyond complying with the TOS and reporting people who we see breaking. We don't. In fact, it is actively against our interests to do so.

[snip]

Why would you even try to help stop a problem when you don't even know what it is? This has been going on for over six months and no one in the player community has any idea what, if any, actual fraudulent behavior is taking place. It's all just speculation. [snip]

I never once said we should help them find a solution to the fraud that caused this. I said that blaming and accusing and trying to put pressure on them is not going to find a solution any faster. I seriously doubt they are dragging their feet on this.

[edited to remove quote]

I think you have zero idea as to whale/kraken community mentality. They spend money regardless of crowns for gold. And for various reasons as well without care about what the devs do or don't do. As long as their are new things to buy of interest, they'll spend. The overall impact to ZOS's bottom line is what they're considering acceptable loss. Primarily because that community of spenders prop up the bottom line. Whales also will pay full price for things, because they have disposable income to do so. It's the same problem many other mobile games have. These companies have been given little reason to change. I think the only fraud here is the claims of fraud "outside of the normal levels" It exists whether they like it or not. If they were more transparent than 3 sentences, this would have probably been much better received.

EmEm_Oh

With all this Crown and Gold stuff going on, it makes me think that ZOS's claim of over 10 Million users online...is not the case and they will have to revise their statistics for actual users online.

Soraka

Susan_Sto wrote: »

What this whole saga has exposed is 2 major flaws that ESO suffers from.

1. There are very few rewards for playing the game. Besides motifs, there are very few collectables or cosmetics available just through gameplay. Events offer more, which is why player engagement goes up during those periods. Gold is the only real reward for playing the game.
2. Crown store items are overpriced. Everything is overpriced, cosmetics, mounts, crates, services tokens, skill boosts, etc. (I really wanted Antiquities to be included in the crown store but I knew it would be 3k and I just can't/ won't pay to get that for just 1 of my alts let alone all of them. Even when discounted it will still be 2.5k, which is still overpriced.)

Allowing players to use in-game gold to trade for crowns has simply masked this for years.

For ZOS to ban ALL crown trades means that they have a very serious and actionable reason to do so. More than just a few players using VPNs getting cheaper crowns from other countries, or just general scammers.

Since crate trading was banned suddenly we started to get messages in chat for 3rd party sites selling discount crowns for real world money. I saw the last message late last week just before the expanded ban.

This is a problem of ZOS making, if the gold/ crown exchange wasn't a fundamental part of the game now and crown items being so expensive (in real world money) they wouldn't have made the whole process so appealing to criminals.

We are probably never going to go back to the old system. A long term solution need to include crown item pricing, in game rewards, and a trading system that has proper oversight.

I'm still trying to catch up on the whole thread. People have always joked that ZOS only cares to fix things when the crown store is involved, but even that seems to have reached its limit.

I empathize with those who are experiencing this frustration, but I say this as someone who does spend money and has never traded gold for crowns. I understand the frustration of having things going ignored for so long, but I do not 100% have the same experience because I don't engage in this aspect.

Maybe this will finally be a turning point where the enabling/excusing of the crown store practices gets some push back. It would be nice to see some attention given to all the other areas ZOS has dropped the ball and forgotten all about it as well, without the cash shop shinies to focus on. The fact that gold to crown trading is being called a "major gameplay" aspect of ESO is very telling.

ETA for the conversation on financial institutions blocking fraud. On other social media platforms I recently saw a post from someone who works at a financial institution showing correspondence from an upset customer because the institution would not allow the customer to purchase crowns with their money. So it seems some places are indeed blocking customers from purchasing from ZOS.

VinnyGambini

They said it's temporary. The real question is, when it will be turned back. I believe if it's more than month, game will die.

Elsonso

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VinnyGambini wrote: »

They said it's temporary. The real question is, when it will be turned back. I believe if it's more than month, game will die.

I feel that this is unlikely. Will there be people who leave? Sure. Player attrition is a death by a thousand cuts. No one thing like this is going to do it. ZOS will have to do much better if they want to kill the game.

Trancejet

So many players left in this week.
Time to say goodbye to ESO.

Daoin

i never like the idea much of crowns for gold, but not having the choice to send a few friends the no gold for gift presents from time to time through crown store like xmas or holidays or randomly is a bit of bad news, either way its not a gamebreaking one i think for me, im not going to leave the game because i cant buy other peoples crowns but i never have anyway so not much of an argument for me

Katheriah

Elsonso wrote: »

.

VinnyGambini wrote: »

They said it's temporary. The real question is, when it will be turned back. I believe if it's more than month, game will die.

I feel that this is unlikely. Will there be people who leave? Sure. Player attrition is a death by a thousand cuts. No one thing like this is going to do it. ZOS will have to do much better if they want to kill the game.

This is honestly just another example of an "interesting decision" paired with underwhelming communication. The real problem is that this is not incidental, but almost expected behaviour from ZOS.

SilverBride

Trancejet wrote: »

So many players left in this week.

I have not seen any data to support this.

Marcus684

SilverBride wrote: »

Trancejet wrote: »

So many players left in this week.

I have not seen any data to support this.

While I haven't seen any data I'd bet money that many players like me have taken a break from the game, just not for the reason that most here claim. Starfield is eating up 99% of my gaming time right now, but I'm sure some people will blame disabling Crown Store gifting.

sarahthes

Marcus684 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Trancejet wrote: »

So many players left in this week.

I have not seen any data to support this.

Starfield is eating up 99% of my gaming time right now, but I'm sure some people will blame disabling Crown Store gifting.

Same, dude, same...

If I didn't have cores I prob wouldn't even log in at all right now LOL.

VinnyGambini

Will ZOS bring it back?