Booted from server then says account permanently banned!

Elsonso

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ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Just to update everyone on this issue, we are close to completing our investigation and have started unbanning the majority of affected players; only those that we found have exploited maliciously or an excessive number of times will remain banned. Please remember if you come across a game exploit, make your best effort to avoid it and report it to us as soon as possible. Thanks for everyone's patience while we investigated this issue and you can expect an email from our Support Team soon with an update on your account, if you haven't already.

Can you let us know how many people ended up being banned? I know at one time, ZOS was going to give that information out. Not sure if that was forgotten, or someone decided to nix the idea.

Necrotech_Master

Elsonso wrote: »

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ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Just to update everyone on this issue, we are close to completing our investigation and have started unbanning the majority of affected players; only those that we found have exploited maliciously or an excessive number of times will remain banned. Please remember if you come across a game exploit, make your best effort to avoid it and report it to us as soon as possible. Thanks for everyone's patience while we investigated this issue and you can expect an email from our Support Team soon with an update on your account, if you haven't already.

Can you let us know how many people ended up being banned? I know at one time, ZOS was going to give that information out. Not sure if that was forgotten, or someone decided to nix the idea.

i find it unlikely they would do that

it also wouldnt look good for them if they said (hypothetical) "we banned 1000 accounts, but 70% of those were false positives and those players should now be unbanned"

going along with what others have said, the automated or copy/paste responses to the players who were a false-positive ban are in rather bad taste as it definitely feels like its blaming the player even if they never even knew what happened

Eliran

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Just to update everyone on this issue, we are close to completing our investigation and have started unbanning the majority of affected players; only those that we found have exploited maliciously or an excessive number of times will remain banned. Please remember if you come across a game exploit, make your best effort to avoid it and report it to us as soon as possible. Thanks for everyone's patience while we investigated this issue and you can expect an email from our Support Team soon with an update on your account, if you haven't already.

Wow. Just wow.

This was not poorly handled by the players, several of whome reported this bug days ago.
This was not a fair response on Zos's end. Y'all really need to start putting your money where your mouth is with improved communication and quality of life improvements.

What bug? I am really curious, not gonna lie ...

Elsonso

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

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ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Just to update everyone on this issue, we are close to completing our investigation and have started unbanning the majority of affected players; only those that we found have exploited maliciously or an excessive number of times will remain banned. Please remember if you come across a game exploit, make your best effort to avoid it and report it to us as soon as possible. Thanks for everyone's patience while we investigated this issue and you can expect an email from our Support Team soon with an update on your account, if you haven't already.

Can you let us know how many people ended up being banned? I know at one time, ZOS was going to give that information out. Not sure if that was forgotten, or someone decided to nix the idea.

i find it unlikely they would do that

it also wouldnt look good for them if they said (hypothetical) "we banned 1000 accounts, but 70% of those were false positives and those players should now be unbanned"

going along with what others have said, the automated or copy/paste responses to the players who were a false-positive ban are in rather bad taste as it definitely feels like its blaming the player even if they never even knew what happened

I agree that they won't do it, but looking back, they did one time. They would also not be releasing any "false positive" information, and all I asked for was the final ban number... not the number of people impacted.

("False positive" in quotes because I think everyone who was impacted did whatever it was they were banned for. There were not false positives. The problem seems to be that ZOS didn't decide what the cut level was until after they banned everyone, so now they get to unban people they didn't need to ban in the first place.)

wilykcat

I agree with your statement. Zenimax (along with all other online game companies) can't share information of how many players and specifically who got banned due to privacy reasons.

Necrotech_Master

Elsonso wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

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ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Just to update everyone on this issue, we are close to completing our investigation and have started unbanning the majority of affected players; only those that we found have exploited maliciously or an excessive number of times will remain banned. Please remember if you come across a game exploit, make your best effort to avoid it and report it to us as soon as possible. Thanks for everyone's patience while we investigated this issue and you can expect an email from our Support Team soon with an update on your account, if you haven't already.

Can you let us know how many people ended up being banned? I know at one time, ZOS was going to give that information out. Not sure if that was forgotten, or someone decided to nix the idea.

i find it unlikely they would do that

it also wouldnt look good for them if they said (hypothetical) "we banned 1000 accounts, but 70% of those were false positives and those players should now be unbanned"

going along with what others have said, the automated or copy/paste responses to the players who were a false-positive ban are in rather bad taste as it definitely feels like its blaming the player even if they never even knew what happened

I agree that they won't do it, but looking back, they did one time. They would also not be releasing any "false positive" information, and all I asked for was the final ban number... not the number of people impacted.

yeah i do remember seeing some of those things before, but they never offered specific numbers i dont think

theres been a few mass bans over the years (especially on PC in the early years to combat the gold spammers and bots), but as far as im aware i never saw any specific numbers reported with those, they just said that a large number of accounts were banned because they fell under a specific category

vsrs_au

This situation has certainly put me off reporting anything unusual I see in the game, because I'm now afraid I'll just get automatically banned for it. I didn't even do my endeavours yesterday (for the first time in a long while), because I was concerned I'd trigger an automatic ban somehow.

Troodon80

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

This was not poorly handled by the players, several of whome reported this bug days ago.

I should just like to say that, while I stand by my earlier post (implying that ZOS should employ an innocent-until-proven-guilty method), Gina has not actually stipulated which exploit is under investigation, only that an exploit is currently being investigated. People are jumping on a guesswork bandwagon and assuming it's the endeavour bug while others are guessing it's something related to crowns. No one knows.

spartaxoxo

Troodon80 wrote: »

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

This was not poorly handled by the players, several of whome reported this bug days ago.

I should just like to say that, while I stand by my earlier post (implying that ZOS should employ an innocent-until-proven-guilty method), Gina has not actually stipulated which exploit is under investigation, only that an exploit is currently being investigated. People are jumping on a guesswork bandwagon and assuming it's the endeavour bug while others are guessing it's something related to crowns. No one knows.

The players impacted got an email confirming it was the endeavor bug. It's on their other socials.

freespirit

Troodon80 wrote: »

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

This was not poorly handled by the players, several of whome reported this bug days ago.

I should just like to say that, while I stand by my earlier post (implying that ZOS should employ an innocent-until-proven-guilty method), Gina has not actually stipulated which exploit is under investigation, only that an exploit is currently being investigated. People are jumping on a guesswork bandwagon and assuming it's the endeavour bug while others are guessing it's something related to crowns. No one knows.

I believe in post #124 the poster confirms he's received an email stating it was the bugged Endeavors.

Mik195

The email seems to suggest that players are required to monitor their endeavors and be aware if any go wrong.

That's confusing since I can't think of any endeavors that are only done for the endeavor and not as part of regular gameplay. If you are leveling a crafter, you may deconstruct hundreds of items in one day. You may decide to spend a day killing world bosses or doing dungeons or if a public dungeon drops fragments, you may decide to farm the boss, etc. How would someone know about the bug if they weren't monitoring the day's endeavors?

Troodon80

wilykcat wrote: »

I agree with your statement. Zenimax (along with all other online game companies) can't share information of how many players and specifically who got banned due to privacy reasons.

Doesn't need to be specific information like names, just numbers. Square Enix does this very frequently with FFXIV as notifications via The Lodestone every week or two.

e.g.:

Troodon80

freespirit wrote: »

I believe in post #124 the poster confirms he's received an email stating it was the bugged Endeavors.

Fair. I did skip over quite a lot of posts since they're basically all the same "ZOS should do better." Should have read them all better.

Divine1976

Lesson being don't spend too much on the game/crates, as you could be banned at any time at no fault of your own!

stargazer69

Wil this (wholly unjustified) ban go on our record?

wilykcat

All bans and warnings go on the permanent record. It's called moderation history.

stargazer69

wilykcat wrote: »

All bans and warnings go on the permanent record. It's called moderation history.

Words fail me if this is true.

How can a product defect refect badly on customers that fall fowl of it?

Troodon80

stargazer69 wrote: »

Wil this (wholly unjustified) ban go on our record?

Obviously only someone from ZOS (Gina, Kevin, etc.) can officially answer that, but if it's like the previous ban waves: no. Anyone found to have been exploiting will have the ban maintained, anyone found to have not exploited will have the ban expunged from their record (not including server logs of actions taken). Essentially a clean record.

stargazer69

Troodon80 wrote: »

stargazer69 wrote: »

Wil this (wholly unjustified) ban go on our record?

Obviously only someone from ZOS (Gina, Kevin, etc.) can officially answer that, but if it's like the previous ban waves: no. Anyone found to have been exploiting will have the ban maintained, anyone found to have not exploited will have the ban expunged from their record (not including server logs of actions taken). Essentially a clean record.

Thank you for your answer, I would like an official response from ZOS

The response of "you exploited" rather than the admission on "there's a bug " sheds some light on how ZOS view the customer base

Troodon80

stargazer69 wrote: »

Troodon80 wrote: »

stargazer69 wrote: »

Wil this (wholly unjustified) ban go on our record?

Obviously only someone from ZOS (Gina, Kevin, etc.) can officially answer that, but if it's like the previous ban waves: no. Anyone found to have been exploiting will have the ban maintained, anyone found to have not exploited will have the ban expunged from their record (not including server logs of actions taken). Essentially a clean record.

Thank you for your answer, I would like an official response from ZOS

The response of "you exploited" rather than the admission on "there's a bug " sheds some light on how ZOS view the customer base

Bear in mind, I am also speaking from experience. I actually went back and looked up my own e-mail from 2020. According to messages I've had with various ZOS employees after that point, my account is in good standing (though I definitely do suggest getting an official answer).



And this was the closest thing we got to an apology at the time:



More like a slap in the face. Hopefully you'll get better treatment after this is resolved.

zaria

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Just to update everyone on this issue, we are close to completing our investigation and have started unbanning the majority of affected players; only those that we found have exploited maliciously or an excessive number of times will remain banned. Please remember if you come across a game exploit, make your best effort to avoid it and report it to us as soon as possible. Thanks for everyone's patience while we investigated this issue and you can expect an email from our Support Team soon with an update on your account, if you haven't already.

Wow. Just wow.

This was not poorly handled by the players, several of whom reported this bug days ago.
This was not a fair response on Zos's end. Y'all really need to start putting your money where your mouth is with improved communication and quality of life improvements.

Please employ ths one for onto the live servise mantance crew. Khajiit has long experience maintaing complex machinery like moonshine stills while testing the output.

Skill level included,

prof_doom

stargazer69 wrote: »

The response of "you exploited" rather than the admission on "there's a bug " sheds some light on how ZOS view the customer base

To me, the biggest problem with this particular case is that if what I've heard about how the exploit was triggered is true, anyone could've easily been someone that got banned if they didn't had the wrong city as their "homebase".

I do daily writs on at least 10 alts, and if I had my home base in that zone, I could easily have gone in and out of it 20-30 times in a day.

vsrs_au

I find the biggest problem with this situation is that endeavours can be earnt without the player even being aware of it ***, and still the responses to the un-banned players from ZOS seem to imply that it's the players responsibility to know about the problem.


*** because they can easily miss the notification on getting some endeavour seals, if their attention is focused on some other activity.

TechMaybeHic

Of course it's something with Endeavors and not jewelry glyphs stacking or the falling through the ground at a health level, or porting across the map with a scroll

Lags

stargazer69 wrote: »

wilykcat wrote: »

All bans and warnings go on the permanent record. It's called moderation history.

Words fail me if this is true.

How can a product defect refect badly on customers that fall fowl of it?

because you're dealing with zos where the customer is always wrong

JoeCapricorn

vsrs_au wrote: »

I find the biggest problem with this situation is that endeavours can be earnt without the player even being aware of it ***, and still the responses to the un-banned players from ZOS seem to imply that it's the players responsibility to know about the problem.


*** because they can easily miss the notification on getting some endeavour seals, if their attention is focused on some other activity.

Yeah, this happens all the time. Sometimes I see the notification, other times it's just "Daily 3/3 Endeavors Complete!" and if I go look at Endeavors, and the UI is telling me that I did not complete them, I believe it.

If the UI was telling those players they did not complete endeavors when they actually did... don't ban those that got maybe 15 or 30 extra endeavors, or saw that it was a bug and reported it in good faith. Ban the ones that raked up 10,000 seals of endeavor.

Carcamongus

Devs program game. A bug that leads to an exploit appears. Players are affected by that bug, some repeatedly and willingly, others not so. Everyone's accused of cheating and banned. A day later, many bans are reversed but players are told to be more careful next time. Conclusion: many players are held responsible for a flaw they did not cause nor wished to exploit and prevented from playing, earning tickets and their seals of endeavor. It was a mistake to ban everyone irrespective of actual culpability and it was another mistake not to apologize to those wrongfully banned afterwards. There's still time to switch copy-pasta messages to something more diplomatic, like a nice "sorry for the mess".

Those who got extra seals by accident can't be blamed for an exploit because they didn't actively want to take advantage of it. How can it be cheating if many didn't even notice they were getting more seals than the daily limit? According to the Oxford Dictionary, cheating is to "act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, especially in a game or examination." Wikipedia states "Cheating generally describes various actions designed to subvert rules in order to obtain unfair advantages." Intent is clearly a very important part.

I wasn't affected by this bug and the subsequent ban. However the way ZOS is dealing with the situation has gotten me worried.

spartaxoxo

Carcamongus wrote: »

Devs program game. A bug that leads to an exploit appears. Players are affected by that bug, some repeatedly and willingly, others not so. Everyone's accused of cheating and banned. A day later, many bans are reversed but players are told to be more careful next time. Conclusion: many players are held responsible for a flaw they did not cause nor wished to exploit and prevented from playing, earning tickets and their seals of endeavor. It was a mistake to ban everyone irrespective of actual culpability and it was another mistake not to apologize to those wrongfully banned afterwards. There's still time to switch copy-pasta messages to something more diplomatic, like a nice "sorry for the mess".

Those who got extra seals by accident can't be blamed for an exploit because they didn't actively want to take advantage of it. How can it be cheating if many didn't even notice they were getting more seals than the daily limit? According to the Oxford Dictionary, cheating is to "act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, especially in a game or examination." Wikipedia states "Cheating generally describes various actions designed to subvert rules in order to obtain unfair advantages." Intent is clearly a very important part.

I wasn't affected by this bug and the subsequent ban. However the way ZOS is dealing with the situation has gotten me worried.

This is where I am at. The lack of information also made me avoid playing the event other day for fear a bug that never existed but was rumored by players hit my account.

Tyrant_Tim

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Of course it's something with Endeavors and not jewelry glyphs stacking or the falling through the ground at a health level, or porting across the map with a scroll

Yup, they definitely have their priorities.

Panchaea

Can't blame 'em. The game gives players a pittance of endeavours so it's like giving catnip to a cat, especially when you endeavour design is terrible to begin with.

Instead of knee-jerk reacting to people intentionally and unintentionally exploiting your own mistakes at a moment's notice maybe we should get some of those updates on a "more communicative" dev team that we've been promised since 2014 so people are aware and are forewarned. Not everyone reads the forums, so maybe implement some sort of server announcement or something that calls it out in plain language in an easily accessible form. Or is that too hard to implement as well?