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Ramping Cost for Nightblade Cloak
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Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Tyrant_Tim wrote: »@Mayrael, put Ambush on where you had Camo Hunter and you’ll be on top of the Sorcerer all day, what else is there to test?
I’m at Belkarth right now if you want some duels, but I’m not doing all of that redundant extra stuff.
I’ll be on a MagSorc.
So you want to do the test as I wrote or not?Say no to Toxic Casuals!
I am doing my best, but I am not a native speaker, sorry.
"Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game." - @AlexanderDeLarge0 -
Tyrant_Tim✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Tyrant_Tim wrote: »@Mayrael, put Ambush on where you had Camo Hunter and you’ll be on top of the Sorcerer all day, what else is there to test?
I’m at Belkarth right now if you want some duels, but I’m not doing all of that redundant extra stuff.
I’ll be on a MagSorc.
So you want to do the test as I wrote or not?
The only verification you need, is when you connect your Minor Vulnerability + Minor Berserk Ambush on my Sorcerer that’s supposed to have escaped your damage, like what happens when you activate Cloak.
We can post a clip of the results, of you on top of my Sorcerer with Ambush, and me aimlessly trying to find you with Magelight.Edited by Tyrant_Tim on July 13, 2023 6:55AM2 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Tyrant_Tim wrote: »Tyrant_Tim wrote: »@Mayrael, put Ambush on where you had Camo Hunter and you’ll be on top of the Sorcerer all day, what else is there to test?
I’m at Belkarth right now if you want some duels, but I’m not doing all of that redundant extra stuff.
I’ll be on a MagSorc.
So you want to do the test as I wrote or not?
The only verification you need, is when you connect your Minor Vulnerability + Minor Berserk Ambush on my Sorcerer that’s supposed to have escaped your damage, like what happens when you activate Cloak.
[snip] I'm asking for the last time, do you want to do the test under the conditions mentioned above or not? [snip]
[edited for baiting]Edited by ZOS_Icy on July 14, 2023 5:43PMSay no to Toxic Casuals!
I am doing my best, but I am not a native speaker, sorry.
"Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game." - @AlexanderDeLarge2 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Tyrant_Tim wrote: »Tyrant_Tim wrote: »@Mayrael, put Ambush on where you had Camo Hunter and you’ll be on top of the Sorcerer all day, what else is there to test?
I’m at Belkarth right now if you want some duels, but I’m not doing all of that redundant extra stuff.
I’ll be on a MagSorc.
So you want to do the test as I wrote or not?
The only verification you need, is when you connect your Minor Vulnerability + Minor Berserk Ambush on my Sorcerer that’s supposed to have escaped your damage, like what happens when you activate Cloak.
We can post a clip of the results, of you on top of my Sorcerer with Ambush, and me aimlessly trying to find you with Magelight.
Oh no no, you will be playing NB and I will be playing sorcerer.Say no to Toxic Casuals!
I am doing my best, but I am not a native speaker, sorry.
"Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game." - @AlexanderDeLarge0 -
relog✭✭StaticWave wrote: »Shadowy Disguise is not any close to mechanic of streak and mist form. Besides game give you many ways to counter it. Its like adding ramping cost to any other skill, that you dont like such as Elemental Susceptibility (still 0 cost lol), Vigor etc.
And only 1 of them is actually reliable enough to be used, which is Detect Potions, which just recently got buffed. Even then, you are wasting 45s of better potions like Tripots or Armor pots, or an entire skill slot that has no use out side of countering 1 class that so happens to be obnoxiously common in Cyrodiil PvP
Meanwhile, Streak and Mist Form are easily countered by slotting a gap closer, which also has multiple uses outside of countering Streak and Mist users (for example, Rushing Agony with Stampede is widely used to bomb zergs). Heck, even sprinting is sufficient to counter a Streak/Mist user. I mean just look at this video where I chased down a magsorc with just sprinting.
https://youtu.be/tfWfyBZbFfg
If Detect Potion is only reliable way for you to counter Shadow Disguise, then you don't know the really ways to counter it. In real life nb use cloak a then it break by an enemy aoe in 1 sec. Result - cloak did nothing, nb take damage.
About your video, your just prove how streak efficient. You enemy walked after streak, while you couldnt reach him with sprint+minor expedition+major expedition.4 -
Tyrant_Tim✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Tyrant_Tim wrote: »Tyrant_Tim wrote: »@Mayrael, put Ambush on where you had Camo Hunter and you’ll be on top of the Sorcerer all day, what else is there to test?
I’m at Belkarth right now if you want some duels, but I’m not doing all of that redundant extra stuff.
I’ll be on a MagSorc.
So you want to do the test as I wrote or not?
The only verification you need, is when you connect your Minor Vulnerability + Minor Berserk Ambush on my Sorcerer that’s supposed to have escaped your damage, like what happens when you activate Cloak.
We can post a clip of the results, of you on top of my Sorcerer with Ambush, and me aimlessly trying to find you with Magelight.
Oh no no, you will be playing NB and I will be playing sorcerer.
How does being naked confirm or deny the capability of counterplay? No one is ever going to be a naked player fighting another naked player.
If you want to waste our time, sure pull up. I’ll be the Nightblade.1 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Tyrant_Tim wrote: »Tyrant_Tim wrote: »Tyrant_Tim wrote: »@Mayrael, put Ambush on where you had Camo Hunter and you’ll be on top of the Sorcerer all day, what else is there to test?
I’m at Belkarth right now if you want some duels, but I’m not doing all of that redundant extra stuff.
I’ll be on a MagSorc.
So you want to do the test as I wrote or not?
The only verification you need, is when you connect your Minor Vulnerability + Minor Berserk Ambush on my Sorcerer that’s supposed to have escaped your damage, like what happens when you activate Cloak.
We can post a clip of the results, of you on top of my Sorcerer with Ambush, and me aimlessly trying to find you with Magelight.
Oh no no, you will be playing NB and I will be playing sorcerer.
How does being naked confirm or deny the capability of counterplay? No one is ever going to be a naked player fighting another naked player.
If you want to waste our time, sure pull up. I’ll be the Nightblade.
To make sure we both won't play tanks with infinite sustain.Say no to Toxic Casuals!
I am doing my best, but I am not a native speaker, sorry.
"Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game." - @AlexanderDeLarge0 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Tyrant_Tim wrote: »Tyrant_Tim wrote: »Tyrant_Tim wrote: »@Mayrael, put Ambush on where you had Camo Hunter and you’ll be on top of the Sorcerer all day, what else is there to test?
I’m at Belkarth right now if you want some duels, but I’m not doing all of that redundant extra stuff.
I’ll be on a MagSorc.
So you want to do the test as I wrote or not?
The only verification you need, is when you connect your Minor Vulnerability + Minor Berserk Ambush on my Sorcerer that’s supposed to have escaped your damage, like what happens when you activate Cloak.
We can post a clip of the results, of you on top of my Sorcerer with Ambush, and me aimlessly trying to find you with Magelight.
Oh no no, you will be playing NB and I will be playing sorcerer.
How does being naked confirm or deny the capability of counterplay? No one is ever going to be a naked player fighting another naked player.
If you want to waste our time, sure pull up. I’ll be the Nightblade.
My ingame is @Mayrael, Im waiting on PTS. Before starting the test open your inventory and CP's to record that nothing is in use, I'll do the same.Say no to Toxic Casuals!
I am doing my best, but I am not a native speaker, sorry.
"Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game." - @AlexanderDeLarge0 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭And we did the test. Actually the difference between sorc and NB in the same gear setup is stunning. I may be a bit rusty since I haven't played sorc for 6 years in PvP and EU to NA ping is not that good but the difference is there, NB is really superior class to sorc, it's beyond cloak as it plays marginal role in duel but overall feeling is overwhelming.
@Tyrant_Tim thanks for nice and good testing
Edited by Mayrael on July 13, 2023 8:17AMSay no to Toxic Casuals!
I am doing my best, but I am not a native speaker, sorry.
"Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game." - @AlexanderDeLarge5 -
Tyrant_Tim✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭And we did the test. Actually the difference between sorc and NB in the same gear setup is stunning. I may be a bit rusty since I haven't played sorc for 6 years in PvP and EU to NA ping is not that good but the difference is there, NB is really superior class to sorc, it's beyond cloak as it plays marginal role in duel but overall feeling is overwhelming.
@Tyrant_Tim thanks for nice and good testing
No problem, it was fun. To better illustrate the power of a gap closer vs Streak, here’s a video of one of our fights where you can see just how easily I jumped to your Streak and continued applying pressure.
https://youtu.be/mOzYrJZeo48
Even without Cloak for most of the fight, the power of Nightblade is ridiculous, and the class is even more oppressive when it’s not being countered by Radiant Magelight or Detect Pots, for a Template Sorcerer to have ramping costs on Streak and still not stand a remote chance against a basic Template Nightblade, it’s clear the class is heavily loaded, and can afford like treatment on it’s Cloak.Edited by Tyrant_Tim on July 13, 2023 9:19AM9 -
Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The only way I can see something like this is when you would literally have no dedicated invisibility counter skills, sets, potion etc, as streak & roll-dodge do not have.
I also don't get it why people compare streak to cloak. Those are 2 different skills that operate differently.
Streak has a ramping cost because in the past (and I mean like looong time ago) when it did not had ramping cost you could literally chain-cast it to teleport between keeps.
Cloak on the other hand has a lot of stuff that counters the effect - detection skills, direct damage aoes, potions, sets etc. Many of those things are slotted just for a very strong passive buff (like Flare & Major Protection).
Things that were used to balance out one skill should not be used to balance out the other and vice-versa. Otherwise you will create a nightmare.
Imagine if we look at this differently. Add ramping cost to cloak, sure, but since we are comparing streak to cloak (we should not) then we should be consequential and at the same time add dedicated ant-teleport / anti-blink skills, potions and sets to the game - so that sorcs would not be able to streak away if they are near. Is it good idea balance wise ? No. It would be terrible. That is why those skills should not be compared lol.Edited by Tommy_The_Gun on July 13, 2023 9:52AM7 -
Weckless✭✭✭People really should stop worrying so much about ramping cost. Itd be better to agree to it on the grounds that they fix cloak from breaking when it shouldnt. Id happily take a reliable cloak with a ramping cost over one that breaks for literally no reason sometimes1
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Foxtrot39✭✭✭✭Skill is getting overloaded with upcoming change so ramping cost seems ok to me, although I wonder if the duration allow to cover a similar distance than streak/mist form does1 -
StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭For anyone who has the courage to prove their claims, I propose an experiment. Let's meet on the PTS. Characters cannot use any sets, consumables, or CP, just naked characters with all the available skills for them (tomake sure its about skills), and then we try to escape an NB from a Sorc and a Sorc from an NB. Is anyone willing to participate in the testing?
Bruh what do you mean lol? I play a full speed stamsorc in Cyrodiil and I see NBs in my faction going into stealth successfully all the time. Meanwhile I’m getting DK chained back to back on top of Crit Rush spam.
There are just as many counters for Streak as there are for Cloak. Don’t try to make it sound like Cloak is taking it worse lol.Platform:
PC NA
Main:
Static Wave - AD stamsorc5 -
StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭StaticWave wrote: »Shadowy Disguise is not any close to mechanic of streak and mist form. Besides game give you many ways to counter it. Its like adding ramping cost to any other skill, that you dont like such as Elemental Susceptibility (still 0 cost lol), Vigor etc.
And only 1 of them is actually reliable enough to be used, which is Detect Potions, which just recently got buffed. Even then, you are wasting 45s of better potions like Tripots or Armor pots, or an entire skill slot that has no use out side of countering 1 class that so happens to be obnoxiously common in Cyrodiil PvP
Meanwhile, Streak and Mist Form are easily countered by slotting a gap closer, which also has multiple uses outside of countering Streak and Mist users (for example, Rushing Agony with Stampede is widely used to bomb zergs). Heck, even sprinting is sufficient to counter a Streak/Mist user. I mean just look at this video where I chased down a magsorc with just sprinting.https://youtu.be/tfWfyBZbFfg
If Detect Potion is only reliable way for you to counter Shadow Disguise, then you don't know the really ways to counter it. In real life nb use cloak a then it break by an enemy aoe in 1 sec. Result - cloak did nothing, nb take damage.
About your video, your just prove how streak efficient. You enemy walked after streak, while you couldnt reach him with sprint+minor expedition+major expedition.
What AoE? Ever since they made AoE DoTs not break Cloak, AoEs aren’t an issue. And please don’t tell me I can pull NBs out with Whirling Blades, because it’s not going to work.Edited by StaticWave on July 13, 2023 5:32PMPlatform:
PC NA
Main:
Static Wave - AD stamsorc3 -
StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Tyrant_Tim wrote: »And we did the test. Actually the difference between sorc and NB in the same gear setup is stunning. I may be a bit rusty since I haven't played sorc for 6 years in PvP and EU to NA ping is not that good but the difference is there, NB is really superior class to sorc, it's beyond cloak as it plays marginal role in duel but overall feeling is overwhelming.
@Tyrant_Tim thanks for nice and good testing
No problem, it was fun. To better illustrate the power of a gap closer vs Streak, here’s a video of one of our fights where you can see just how easily I jumped to your Streak and continued applying pressure.https://youtu.be/mOzYrJZeo48
Even without Cloak for most of the fight, the power of Nightblade is ridiculous, and the class is even more oppressive when it’s not being countered by Radiant Magelight or Detect Pots, for a Template Sorcerer to have ramping costs on Streak and still not stand a remote chance against a basic Template Nightblade, it’s clear the class is heavily loaded, and can afford like treatment on it’s Cloak.
This power disparity is also exacerbated with gear sets and abilities.
A NB is able to reach upwards of 7k WD easily due to the sheer amount of stats it can obtain, while also having a decent amount of other offensive stats. Slot the same build, and NB always has better stats than a Sorc. This difference in numbers alone put NB a whole tier above Sorc in PvP.
A NB in just a stat build can kill the majority of Sorc builds, including proc ones. That is how much power disparity there is.
Platform:
PC NA
Main:
Static Wave - AD stamsorc2 -
relog✭✭Tyrant_Tim wrote: »And we did the test. Actually the difference between sorc and NB in the same gear setup is stunning. I may be a bit rusty since I haven't played sorc for 6 years in PvP and EU to NA ping is not that good but the difference is there, NB is really superior class to sorc, it's beyond cloak as it plays marginal role in duel but overall feeling is overwhelming.
@Tyrant_Tim thanks for nice and good testing
No problem, it was fun. To better illustrate the power of a gap closer vs Streak, here’s a video of one of our fights where you can see just how easily I jumped to your Streak and continued applying pressure.https://youtu.be/mOzYrJZeo48
Even without Cloak for most of the fight, the power of Nightblade is ridiculous, and the class is even more oppressive when it’s not being countered by Radiant Magelight or Detect Pots, for a Template Sorcerer to have ramping costs on Streak and still not stand a remote chance against a basic Template Nightblade, it’s clear the class is heavily loaded, and can afford like treatment on it’s Cloak.
So base on this fight of 2 potatoes we should consider that:
1) Gap closer is counter to streak
2) NB is overwhelm Sorc
3) We should add ramp cost to cloak
Am i right, that is your logic chain?2 -
relog✭✭StaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »Shadowy Disguise is not any close to mechanic of streak and mist form. Besides game give you many ways to counter it. Its like adding ramping cost to any other skill, that you dont like such as Elemental Susceptibility (still 0 cost lol), Vigor etc.
And only 1 of them is actually reliable enough to be used, which is Detect Potions, which just recently got buffed. Even then, you are wasting 45s of better potions like Tripots or Armor pots, or an entire skill slot that has no use out side of countering 1 class that so happens to be obnoxiously common in Cyrodiil PvP
Meanwhile, Streak and Mist Form are easily countered by slotting a gap closer, which also has multiple uses outside of countering Streak and Mist users (for example, Rushing Agony with Stampede is widely used to bomb zergs). Heck, even sprinting is sufficient to counter a Streak/Mist user. I mean just look at this video where I chased down a magsorc with just sprinting.https://youtu.be/tfWfyBZbFfg
If Detect Potion is only reliable way for you to counter Shadow Disguise, then you don't know the really ways to counter it. In real life nb use cloak a then it break by an enemy aoe in 1 sec. Result - cloak did nothing, nb take damage.
About your video, your just prove how streak efficient. You enemy walked after streak, while you couldnt reach him with sprint+minor expedition+major expedition.
What AoE? Ever since they made AoE DoTs not break Cloak, AoEs aren’t an issue. And please don’t tell me I can pull NBs out with Whirling Blades, because it’s not going to work.
If you dont know the names of direct AOE skills (and a lot of other single target ones, that break cloak), i wouldnt search them for you.0 -
StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Tyrant_Tim wrote: »And we did the test. Actually the difference between sorc and NB in the same gear setup is stunning. I may be a bit rusty since I haven't played sorc for 6 years in PvP and EU to NA ping is not that good but the difference is there, NB is really superior class to sorc, it's beyond cloak as it plays marginal role in duel but overall feeling is overwhelming.
@Tyrant_Tim thanks for nice and good testing
No problem, it was fun. To better illustrate the power of a gap closer vs Streak, here’s a video of one of our fights where you can see just how easily I jumped to your Streak and continued applying pressure.https://youtu.be/mOzYrJZeo48
Even without Cloak for most of the fight, the power of Nightblade is ridiculous, and the class is even more oppressive when it’s not being countered by Radiant Magelight or Detect Pots, for a Template Sorcerer to have ramping costs on Streak and still not stand a remote chance against a basic Template Nightblade, it’s clear the class is heavily loaded, and can afford like treatment on it’s Cloak.
So base on this fight of 2 potatoes we should consider that:
1) Gap closer is counter to streak
2) NB is overwhelm Sorc
3) We should add ramp cost to cloak
Am i right, that is your logic chain?
The test fight was a valid demonstration of power disparity between NB and Sorc. But since you want to use the argument of authority, @React is one of the best NBs on PC NA and he agrees that Cloak needs a ramping cost. Does that mean he's a potato too?Platform:
PC NA
Main:
Static Wave - AD stamsorc4 -
Tyrant_Tim✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Tyrant_Tim wrote: »And we did the test. Actually the difference between sorc and NB in the same gear setup is stunning. I may be a bit rusty since I haven't played sorc for 6 years in PvP and EU to NA ping is not that good but the difference is there, NB is really superior class to sorc, it's beyond cloak as it plays marginal role in duel but overall feeling is overwhelming.
@Tyrant_Tim thanks for nice and good testing
No problem, it was fun. To better illustrate the power of a gap closer vs Streak, here’s a video of one of our fights where you can see just how easily I jumped to your Streak and continued applying pressure.https://youtu.be/mOzYrJZeo48
Even without Cloak for most of the fight, the power of Nightblade is ridiculous, and the class is even more oppressive when it’s not being countered by Radiant Magelight or Detect Pots, for a Template Sorcerer to have ramping costs on Streak and still not stand a remote chance against a basic Template Nightblade, it’s clear the class is heavily loaded, and can afford like treatment on it’s Cloak.
So base on this fight of 2 potatoes we should consider that:
1) Gap closer is counter to streak
2) NB is overwhelm Sorc
3) We should add ramp cost to cloak
Am i right, that is your logic chain?
Want to get on actually built PTS characters and find out if the same pattern occurs?
Because MagBlade beats MagSorc every day of the week, so to have less penalty than that class makes zero sense to any competitive player.
Especially due to the sheer troll power you have with cloak, it amazes me anyone can defend it’s lack of a ramp.3 -
StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭StaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »Shadowy Disguise is not any close to mechanic of streak and mist form. Besides game give you many ways to counter it. Its like adding ramping cost to any other skill, that you dont like such as Elemental Susceptibility (still 0 cost lol), Vigor etc.
And only 1 of them is actually reliable enough to be used, which is Detect Potions, which just recently got buffed. Even then, you are wasting 45s of better potions like Tripots or Armor pots, or an entire skill slot that has no use out side of countering 1 class that so happens to be obnoxiously common in Cyrodiil PvP
Meanwhile, Streak and Mist Form are easily countered by slotting a gap closer, which also has multiple uses outside of countering Streak and Mist users (for example, Rushing Agony with Stampede is widely used to bomb zergs). Heck, even sprinting is sufficient to counter a Streak/Mist user. I mean just look at this video where I chased down a magsorc with just sprinting.https://youtu.be/tfWfyBZbFfg
If Detect Potion is only reliable way for you to counter Shadow Disguise, then you don't know the really ways to counter it. In real life nb use cloak a then it break by an enemy aoe in 1 sec. Result - cloak did nothing, nb take damage.
About your video, your just prove how streak efficient. You enemy walked after streak, while you couldnt reach him with sprint+minor expedition+major expedition.
What AoE? Ever since they made AoE DoTs not break Cloak, AoEs aren’t an issue. And please don’t tell me I can pull NBs out with Whirling Blades, because it’s not going to work.
If you dont know the names of direct AOE skills (and a lot of other single target ones, that break cloak), i wouldnt search them for you.
Oh I know them, I'm just telling you they don't work as much as you think. But hey I can slot a gap closer or build some speed and catch any Sorc I want. I've been doing that for years!Platform:
PC NA
Main:
Static Wave - AD stamsorc2 -
StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Here's a quick demonstration of the power disparity between hybrid NB and hybrid Sorc in the same build taken from ESO Build Editor. I'm not including CP and Continuous for ease of comparison. Everything else is the same except for a few class passives and Major buffs. The build is 2x Balorgh, 5x Way of Fire front, 5x Rallying Cry back, & Markyn mythic.
This is Sorc:
This is NB:
Same sets, but NB gets 10% more crit damage, almost 500 more wd/sd, 6% more crit chance, and almost 3k more pen. This is not including Concealed Weapon's 10% unnamed damage done that doesn't diminish in value the lower your target's HP is. Meanwhile, Sorc's Amplitude passive diminishes in value as your target gets closer to execute range, making it even harder to finish them off.
This sheer difference in stats make NB a whole tier above Sorc. Combined with their extremely efficient bar space, they can afford to run mostly defensive skills and still have the killing power.
NB is just overtuned this patch compared to Sorc, and Cloak getting a ramping cost should not be a problem. In fact, it's long overdue.Edited by StaticWave on July 13, 2023 6:28PMPlatform:
PC NA
Main:
Static Wave - AD stamsorc6 -
DUTCH_REAPER✭✭✭✭✭
✭Clearly someone does not play NB in pvp. Everything takes a NB out of stealth now it seems plus there is a 43 m detect pot. What more does a player seriously need to counter them? You have to slot and use those pots. NB is so squishy.5 -
StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »Clearly someone does not play NB in pvp. Everything takes a NB out of stealth now it seems plus there is a 43 m detect pot. What more does a player seriously need to counter them? You have to slot and use those pots. NB is so squishy.
NB is only squishy if you build it squishy. It can be built tanky and still has damage thanks to multiple damage amplifiers in its class kit.Platform:
PC NA
Main:
Static Wave - AD stamsorc3 -
DUTCH_REAPER✭✭✭✭✭
✭StaticWave wrote: »DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »Clearly someone does not play NB in pvp. Everything takes a NB out of stealth now it seems plus there is a 43 m detect pot. What more does a player seriously need to counter them? You have to slot and use those pots. NB is so squishy.
NB is only squishy if you build it squishy. It can be built tanky and still has damage thanks to multiple damage amplifiers in its class kit.
What’s the build for it? This one of a kind build? Bc that is a set issue. Not a class issue.
Updated: yes RC needs nerfing. Always has with this PVP meta. I have always hated nerfing classes. Nerf the sets.Edited by DUTCH_REAPER on July 13, 2023 6:43PM1 -
Tyrant_Tim✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »Clearly someone does not play NB in pvp. Everything takes a NB out of stealth now it seems plus there is a 43 m detect pot. What more does a player seriously need to counter them? You have to slot and use those pots. NB is so squishy.
NB is only squishy if you build it squishy. It can be built tanky and still has damage thanks to multiple damage amplifiers in its class kit.
What’s the build for it? This one of a kind build? Bc that is a set issue. Not a class issue.
In the video I posted you can see how much harassment a Template MagBlade can provide a MagSorc. They were both wearing the same sets, so it’s definitely not a set issue.
I challenge anyone to get on a cp3600 Template non-Nightblade character and kill my Template Magicka Nightblade. It’s not going to happen.
Not even Dragonknight is so heavily loaded with buffs and debuffs.2 -
StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »Clearly someone does not play NB in pvp. Everything takes a NB out of stealth now it seems plus there is a 43 m detect pot. What more does a player seriously need to counter them? You have to slot and use those pots. NB is so squishy.
NB is only squishy if you build it squishy. It can be built tanky and still has damage thanks to multiple damage amplifiers in its class kit.
What’s the build for it? This one of a kind build? Bc that is a set issue. Not a class issue.
Updated: yes RC needs nerfing. Always has with this PVP meta. I have always hated nerfing classes. Nerf the sets.
No CP included. 27k spell 26k phys resist front bar, 30k spell 29,5k resist back bar, and almost 3.5k crit resist. Can always replace Way of Fire with a defensive set and get even more mitigation/healing.
It's both set and class issue. Some classes can afford to give up damage for more mitigation like NB. Some classes have to build full damage or it won't have any kill power like Necro/Plar. It is what it is, and NB may not be at the top of the food chain, but it ain't at the bottom either. It's definitely very close to being at the top though.
Platform:
PC NA
Main:
Static Wave - AD stamsorc0 -
Tyrant_Tim✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭StaticWave wrote: »DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »Clearly someone does not play NB in pvp. Everything takes a NB out of stealth now it seems plus there is a 43 m detect pot. What more does a player seriously need to counter them? You have to slot and use those pots. NB is so squishy.
NB is only squishy if you build it squishy. It can be built tanky and still has damage thanks to multiple damage amplifiers in its class kit.
What’s the build for it? This one of a kind build? Bc that is a set issue. Not a class issue.
Updated: yes RC needs nerfing. Always has with this PVP meta. I have always hated nerfing classes. Nerf the sets.
No CP included. 27k spell 26k phys resist front bar, 30k spell 29,5k resist back bar, and almost 3.5k crit resist. Can always replace Way of Fire with a defensive set and get even more mitigation/healing.
It's both set and class issue. Some classes can afford to give up damage for more mitigation like NB. Some classes have to build full damage or it won't have any kill power like Necro/Plar. It is what it is, and NB may not be at the top of the food chain, but it ain't at the bottom either. It's definitely very close to being at the top though.
With proc sets, Dragonknight is #1
Without proc sets, it’s Nightblade all day.2 -
DUTCH_REAPER✭✭✭✭✭
✭If ZOS did what they always should have done with heavy armor sets and make the heavy armor skill passive (REDUCE Damage output by percent value) there would be no issue. A tank set heavy armor should not be able to get slotted and put out damage. Medium and light should be solely responsible for damage. In the beginning of ESO stick and dress (light armor and staves) were the meta. Then it went to dynamic ult generation being stopped. Then healing got a huge buff. Ridiculous healing is capable right now. Now a player can slot heavy and do stupid damage amount as well as healing. The type of armor passive coupled with set bonuses is the issue. A hard hitter “should” be squishy. But it’s not. Why is it not? Look at the armor passives and the sets. Correcting this disparity would not only make builds dynamic again it would get rid of the cookie cutter builds.1 -
DUTCH_REAPER✭✭✭✭✭
✭I’m sorry it is a set issue in my eyes. Passives for armor and set bonuses coupled with hybrid and healing buff allowed this in PVP.0