Ramping Cost for Nightblade Cloak

Bushido2513

Vanionator wrote: »

I main a NB in pvp, I don't care about a ramp-cost implementation, I can work around that.

Regardless of if the change happens or not I'm glad to see people being reasonable. Thanks

Bushido2513

Zastrix wrote: »

Edit: especially the last comment. It doesn't matter that I made a dumb move went straight into people, I would've 100% GUARANTEED survived if I were a nightblade because reasons. Yeah, you wouldn't have, just a lot of copium.

Edit v2: 420th comment. Nice.

I mean you both said hey I'm not qualified to make an observation on something then said but anyway here's my observation on something.

In any case here's the thing. Static could have made slight variations that I believe might have given him a better chance to survive. I'm fine with saying that but it wasn't about him going straight into people that was the whole point of the thing. It's easier to explain if you've played both classes but basically he was trying to say that a double streak is not an I win solution.

Also as I pointed out before if you look at how fast the players catch up to him, that's more of what's being pointed out as well.

I'm not saying you should be able to streak into a group of players and have it all work out. That's a fair point but also goes to show that streak isn't an automatic solution that people think it is.

The part about the nb was the show the difference in kit overall power. NB has instant cast burst heals and invis. Yes they could reveal him and that might have also been the end of that but he cold have also run around a corner and burst healed.

Sorc can't burst heal and just has meh healing overall so when on the run survivability is situational and I think this is just one illustration of that. Granted I can think of a scenario where nb would be at a disadvantage as well so maybe pointing out scenarios doesn't always help.

Point being just because someone is trying to explain their view doesn't mean they are always trying to deny the view of others. I'm sure Static is happy if some want to post explanations and videos of nb and where they feel the pain points are.

Bushido2513

StaticWave wrote: »

It didn’t matter if I Streaked right into the pet Sorc. My last Streak teleported me away from him and I sprinted with clear distance from him, yet still took damage from his lightning attack.

If I was on a NB, I would have cloaked around the corner at the beginning of the video and saved all my mag. This is where you failed to understand my point.

To be fair though you might have just as easily been revealed when around that corner then you would have had to roll dodge cancel a heal and your mag would have been low but then you could have ran around the corner, up the tower, roll dodged again, jumped down, went around a corner, cloaked again, etc.

There's many ways it could have played out depending on build, skill level of your enemies, even lag. I do get where you're coming from but maybe to make it more on point we have to stick to just what's in the video because otherwise you make up a scenario, someone else makes up a scenario, etc etc

Iriidius

When a nightblade is spamming cloak 10 times in a row than they usually do it to disengage. Why is it a problem if a nightblade is using cloak 10 times in a row? I think the problem is not the time you can stay cloaked uninterrupted but the number of times you can attack from cloak using the guarantied crit from cloak and the number of times you can break enemy line of sight. Using cloak multiple times to disengage is fine, beeing all the time cloaked while attacking is not.
You could attack from cloak using guaranteed crit surprise attack or incap stunning enemy, follow up with another attack while the target is breaking free to get him low so he has to heal up before he can go offensive than use cloak before he can target you and stay invisible until you can repeat the combo. Some nightblades would repeat this attack cloak attack cloak strategy until the victim runs out of stamina. However with surprise attack loosing stun when attacking from flank this combo is already much less effective. When the cost increased cloak cost would last 4 seconds like with streak/mistform and dodge roll or 5 seconds like someone here suggested and you use attack your target out of cloak with a stun, the cost increase would be over before target can go
offensive.
Rather than ramping cloak cost there should be ramping cost for attacking from cloak and using guaranteed crit or inability to cloak again for 2-4 seconds.
There definitely shouldnt be a cost increase for using cloak while you are already in
cloak to prolong it. Staying in cloak for long time should be possible.
Increased cost is not a big problem for Zerglings anyway, when Xv1ing they dont have to use skills as often as the 1 to survive and need less sustain while they get more sustain by group buffs and can invest more because they do t need as high dmg and tankiness as a solo player.

Often the „defenses against cloak“ are rather used as offenses against cloak

A few days ago while i was cloaked I was first sniped by a bow nb cloaked itself that probably used detect pots then when i tried to kill the nb the rest of the zerg appeared and chased me for over a minute decloaking me using daedric curse and Purifying light/POTL and after a while because I didnt have magicka to cloak again.
Very often players use detect pots and skills and probably even sentinal set to decloak and chase me when I didnt even attacked them.
When trying to bomb a zerg I often get detected before I even use my combo by Zerglings using detect pots or skills or flare/fear traps on the ground. One Zergling using detect skills is often enaugh to protect the whole Zerg from getting bombed and the bigger the Zerg is the more Zergling there are the higher the chance one of them detects you.
A few days ago when solo defending an small keep witth siege I was cloaking away as soon as inner door opened and the enemy players at the foot of the stairs immediately saw and focussed me. I jumped out and the gankers at keep side also immediately saw and attacked me althought I was cloaked.
But i think a powerful highly controversial skill like cloak shouldnt get major savagery when players already say it is OP.

Bushido2513

Iriidius wrote: »

When a nightblade is spamming cloak 10 times in a row than they usually do it to disengage. Why is it a problem if a nightblade is using cloak 10 times in a row? I think the problem is not the time you can stay cloaked uninterrupted but the number of times you can attack from cloak using the guarantied crit from cloak and the number of times you can break enemy line of sight. Using cloak multiple times to disengage is fine, beeing all the time cloaked while attacking is not.

And this is where the difference between counters and no counters comes in as you explained later in your post.

I think cloak should be a rewarding skill to use but much like streak without a ramp mechanic, I think it can also be somewhat abused when you consider the overall strength of NB vs some other classes.

I like your ideas though. Adding costs certainly isn't the only way or maybe even the best way

ShadowProc

Ringeren wrote: »

I pvp with NB and Sorc (and others including vampire), and if you think cloak is as good as blink for escaping, you haven't played it yourself. I'm sure half my cloaks end early from debuffs i got on or enemy just uses an aoe when I vanish to hit me out of it or they have flare slotted. While two blinks in a row is 95% chance of escape unless you have other vampire/sorc after you.

If you want cloak to have ramping cost you need to buff it more, like give back the cleanse it used to have or give it major expedition (which has so many other sources it wouldn't really be a good buff even).

StaticWave wrote: »

For whoever said 2 streaks and I'm out of range, here is a clip of me just a few hours ago 1vXing in Cyrodiil.

https://youtu.be/F1nyQtWv6Ts

Just for context, my total movement speed in this clip was 198% (21% from 3x Swift, 15% from Hurricane, 10% from Orc sprint, 12% from 4 medium, and 40% base sprint speed).

I streaked twice AND sprinted. I still got hit by lightning heavy attack and several debuffs + DoTs being reapplied. It was only until I line of sighted around the wall up until 2nd floor that I got 10 seconds of breathing room. They were right up on me afterwards.

This is clip is exactly what's wrong with Sorc right now. I am basically speed capped with Streak, yet I'm still taking a lot of damage from ranged attacks + whatever DoTs they put on me. I was completely drained of resources despite having 1.5k regen on both stats, Essence Thief, and Dark Deal sustain. Even with 10 seconds of breathing room, I couldn't get myself up either because Sorc has practically no burst heal or defensive HoTs. The only way for me to reliably heal is by being offensive, which means I had to turn back and fight the people I ran away from. I mean what? I think @Turtle_Bot experienced something similar a month ago on their Sorc.

If I was a brawler NB, I would have no problem kiting that group and healing through their damage.

You didn't use 2 streaks to get away, you streaked once INTO the pet sorc and incoming DK from the right, and then one more to get away. And if you look carefully at 12 sec you see the red aura of vampire mist form in the ground floor doorway from the guy chasing you. Read the last sentence again in my first bit...

Great points. But prepare to be over run. You speak in facts and logic. Theyvdont like that round these parts.

ShadowProc

StaticWave wrote: »

Ringeren wrote: »

I pvp with NB and Sorc (and others including vampire), and if you think cloak is as good as blink for escaping, you haven't played it yourself. I'm sure half my cloaks end early from debuffs i got on or enemy just uses an aoe when I vanish to hit me out of it or they have flare slotted. While two blinks in a row is 95% chance of escape unless you have other vampire/sorc after you.

If you want cloak to have ramping cost you need to buff it more, like give back the cleanse it used to have or give it major expedition (which has so many other sources it wouldn't really be a good buff even).

StaticWave wrote: »

For whoever said 2 streaks and I'm out of range, here is a clip of me just a few hours ago 1vXing in Cyrodiil.

https://youtu.be/F1nyQtWv6Ts

Just for context, my total movement speed in this clip was 198% (21% from 3x Swift, 15% from Hurricane, 10% from Orc sprint, 12% from 4 medium, and 40% base sprint speed).

I streaked twice AND sprinted. I still got hit by lightning heavy attack and several debuffs + DoTs being reapplied. It was only until I line of sighted around the wall up until 2nd floor that I got 10 seconds of breathing room. They were right up on me afterwards.

This is clip is exactly what's wrong with Sorc right now. I am basically speed capped with Streak, yet I'm still taking a lot of damage from ranged attacks + whatever DoTs they put on me. I was completely drained of resources despite having 1.5k regen on both stats, Essence Thief, and Dark Deal sustain. Even with 10 seconds of breathing room, I couldn't get myself up either because Sorc has practically no burst heal or defensive HoTs. The only way for me to reliably heal is by being offensive, which means I had to turn back and fight the people I ran away from. I mean what? I think @Turtle_Bot experienced something similar a month ago on their Sorc.

If I was a brawler NB, I would have no problem kiting that group and healing through their damage.

You didn't use 2 streaks to get away, you streaked once INTO the pet sorc and incoming DK from the right, and then one more to get away. And if you look carefully at 12 sec you see the red aura of vampire mist form in the ground floor doorway from the guy chasing you. Read the last sentence again in my first bit...

It didn’t matter if I Streaked right into the pet Sorc. My last Streak teleported me away from him and I sprinted with clear distance from him, yet still took damage from his lightning attack.

If I was on a NB, I would have cloaked around the corner at the beginning of the video and saved all my mag. This is where you failed to understand my point.

And if you knew what you were talking about or listened you would know that it doesn't work like that. There is a much higher chance it doesn't work or is broken.

If they put structured entropy or Elemental Susceptibility you will have to cast cloak repeatedly if your outnumbered. Or you get detected by a detect pot it's GG. Unlike streak where you can get away. And take a little heavy attack damage. Lol

ShadowProc

Iriidius wrote: »

When a nightblade is spamming cloak 10 times in a row than they usually do it to disengage. Why is it a problem if a nightblade is using cloak 10 times in a row? I think the problem is not the time you can stay cloaked uninterrupted but the number of times you can attack from cloak using the guarantied crit from cloak and the number of times you can break enemy line of sight. Using cloak multiple times to disengage is fine, beeing all the time cloaked while attacking is not.
You could attack from cloak using guaranteed crit surprise attack or incap stunning enemy, follow up with another attack while the target is breaking free to get him low so he has to heal up before he can go offensive than use cloak before he can target you and stay invisible until you can repeat the combo. Some nightblades would repeat this attack cloak attack cloak strategy until the victim runs out of stamina. However with surprise attack loosing stun when attacking from flank this combo is already much less effective. When the cost increased cloak cost would last 4 seconds like with streak/mistform and dodge roll or 5 seconds like someone here suggested and you use attack your target out of cloak with a stun, the cost increase would be over before target can go
offensive.
Rather than ramping cloak cost there should be ramping cost for attacking from cloak and using guaranteed crit or inability to cloak again for 2-4 seconds.
There definitely shouldnt be a cost increase for using cloak while you are already in
cloak to prolong it. Staying in cloak for long time should be possible.
Increased cost is not a big problem for Zerglings anyway, when Xv1ing they dont have to use skills as often as the 1 to survive and need less sustain while they get more sustain by group buffs and can invest more because they do t need as high dmg and tankiness as a solo player.

Often the „defenses against cloak“ are rather used as offenses against cloak

A few days ago while i was cloaked I was first sniped by a bow nb cloaked itself that probably used detect pots then when i tried to kill the nb the rest of the zerg appeared and chased me for over a minute decloaking me using daedric curse and Purifying light/POTL and after a while because I didnt have magicka to cloak again.
Very often players use detect pots and skills and probably even sentinal set to decloak and chase me when I didnt even attacked them.
When trying to bomb a zerg I often get detected before I even use my combo by Zerglings using detect pots or skills or flare/fear traps on the ground. One Zergling using detect skills is often enaugh to protect the whole Zerg from getting bombed and the bigger the Zerg is the more Zergling there are the higher the chance one of them detects you.
A few days ago when solo defending an small keep witth siege I was cloaking away as soon as inner door opened and the enemy players at the foot of the stairs immediately saw and focussed me. I jumped out and the gankers at keep side also immediately saw and attacked me althought I was cloaked.
But i think a powerful highly controversial skill like cloak shouldnt get major savagery when players already say it is OP.

This the problem. They think they should be able to kill anyone anytime without using existing counters. Anything that increases time to kill should be nerfed. And that they shouldn't have increasing cost on streak to chase you to kill you.

You want revamping cost because you don't like wasting a pot? Fine. Give me a pot that disables all gap closers or prevents reveals and I will "waste" the pot.

Bushido2513

ShadowProc wrote: »

And if you knew what you were talking about or listened you would know that it doesn't work like that. There is a much higher chance it doesn't work or is broken.

If they put structured entropy or Elemental Susceptibility you will have to cast cloak repeatedly if your outnumbered. Or you get detected by a detect pot it's GG. Unlike streak where you can get away. And take a little heavy attack damage. Lol

Truth is that both of you are presenting overly simplified versions of the fight that could BOTH actually happen or not happen.

And maybe there is a much higher chance like you said but it depends on so many factors that it becomes a silly guessing game.

So congrats you're both equally possibly right about what might have happened in a fictional NB fight in some keep somewhere.

Bushido2513

ShadowProc wrote: »

This the problem. They think they should be able to kill anyone anytime without using existing counters. Anything that increases time to kill should be nerfed. And that they shouldn't have increasing cost on streak to chase you to kill you.

You want revamping cost because you don't like wasting a pot? Fine. Give me a pot that disables all gap closers or prevents reveals and I will "waste" the pot.

Yeah nobody said any of that. Most here are interested in fair solutions.

And by that I mean generally that people are looking to reign in a class that seems to be over performing.

I can't recall anyone here saying they shouldn't have to use counters

StaticWave

Zastrix wrote: »

I don't play PvP because the community is so bad so I'm PvE exlusive. Having read through most of the comments here (again, from an exclusively PvE-only perspective) the whole thread basically just screams copium and skill issue from the Sorc's side.

Edit: especially the last comment. It doesn't matter that I made a dumb move went straight into people, I would've 100% GUARANTEED survived if I were a nightblade because reasons. Yeah, you wouldn't have, just a lot of copium.

Edit v2: 420th comment. Nice.

“I don’t play PvP” is enough information I need to know about you.

You have no say in this argument whatsoever, and you definitely won’t be able to do this when I ask you:

Please post a video of you 1vXing on sorc and replicate the same scenario like I did. I will wait.

StaticWave

Maybe I’ll just post the full duration of the video so people can see what actually happened.

I doubt people will watch it, and I doubt most of you will be able to survive like I did. Sorry, that isnt going to happen lol. Yall can try to disprove me but at the end of the day, I AM providing my own evidence, from my skill level.

It’s easy to look at other people’s video and judge their mistakes but when you’re put in that situation, you are NOT going to do better than I did.

So if you’re going to criticize me for my gameplay, why don’t you post yours on Sorc? Please let everyone here see how you would have faired in a similar situation.

StaticWave

In that clip, I did not see the Sorc BEHIND THE STAIRS when I streaked into him because I had 5 people behind my back trying to kill me, while being low resources. My focus was not on that Sorc hiding behind the corner from the distance. My focus was trying to survive and sustain.

This is what’s going to happen if you were in the same situation as I was:

You would die within 10 seconds.

This is what will happen to the vast majority of forum commenters. Most of you don’t even leave your zerg or participate in any fight where you are solo fighting multiple people. Decisions are made split seconds, and there’s no guarantee they will be the correct decision.

UNLESS, you have Cloak, which most of you NBs are so fond of. Cloak would have allowed me to be safe for 3 seconds if nobody had detect pots, or even for 1 second so I could scan the battlefield for other enemies. It’s comforting knowing you can’t be hit in Cloak. I know, I played NB for awhile lol. But maybe drop Cloak once and see how different fighting actually is? You’d be surprised.

StaticWave

ShadowProc wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Ringeren wrote: »

I pvp with NB and Sorc (and others including vampire), and if you think cloak is as good as blink for escaping, you haven't played it yourself. I'm sure half my cloaks end early from debuffs i got on or enemy just uses an aoe when I vanish to hit me out of it or they have flare slotted. While two blinks in a row is 95% chance of escape unless you have other vampire/sorc after you.

If you want cloak to have ramping cost you need to buff it more, like give back the cleanse it used to have or give it major expedition (which has so many other sources it wouldn't really be a good buff even).

StaticWave wrote: »

For whoever said 2 streaks and I'm out of range, here is a clip of me just a few hours ago 1vXing in Cyrodiil.

https://youtu.be/F1nyQtWv6Ts

Just for context, my total movement speed in this clip was 198% (21% from 3x Swift, 15% from Hurricane, 10% from Orc sprint, 12% from 4 medium, and 40% base sprint speed).

I streaked twice AND sprinted. I still got hit by lightning heavy attack and several debuffs + DoTs being reapplied. It was only until I line of sighted around the wall up until 2nd floor that I got 10 seconds of breathing room. They were right up on me afterwards.

This is clip is exactly what's wrong with Sorc right now. I am basically speed capped with Streak, yet I'm still taking a lot of damage from ranged attacks + whatever DoTs they put on me. I was completely drained of resources despite having 1.5k regen on both stats, Essence Thief, and Dark Deal sustain. Even with 10 seconds of breathing room, I couldn't get myself up either because Sorc has practically no burst heal or defensive HoTs. The only way for me to reliably heal is by being offensive, which means I had to turn back and fight the people I ran away from. I mean what? I think @Turtle_Bot experienced something similar a month ago on their Sorc.

If I was a brawler NB, I would have no problem kiting that group and healing through their damage.

You didn't use 2 streaks to get away, you streaked once INTO the pet sorc and incoming DK from the right, and then one more to get away. And if you look carefully at 12 sec you see the red aura of vampire mist form in the ground floor doorway from the guy chasing you. Read the last sentence again in my first bit...

It didn’t matter if I Streaked right into the pet Sorc. My last Streak teleported me away from him and I sprinted with clear distance from him, yet still took damage from his lightning attack.

If I was on a NB, I would have cloaked around the corner at the beginning of the video and saved all my mag. This is where you failed to understand my point.

And if you knew what you were talking about or listened you would know that it doesn't work like that. There is a much higher chance it doesn't work or is broken.

If they put structured entropy or Elemental Susceptibility you will have to cast cloak repeatedly if your outnumbered. Or you get detected by a detect pot it's GG. Unlike streak where you can get away. And take a little heavy attack damage. Lol

I get hit while casting Streak repeatedly too. Your point?

And just because there was a single ranged player in that fight doesn’t mean I won’t ever encounter more ranged players. Different fights, different enemies man…

Just like how not everyone is slotting detect pots or have it ready to use against you. Different fights, different enemies.

Yet Streak gets a ramping cost while Cloak doesn’t lol?

StaticWave

Bushido2513 wrote: »

ShadowProc wrote: »

And if you knew what you were talking about or listened you would know that it doesn't work like that. There is a much higher chance it doesn't work or is broken.

If they put structured entropy or Elemental Susceptibility you will have to cast cloak repeatedly if your outnumbered. Or you get detected by a detect pot it's GG. Unlike streak where you can get away. And take a little heavy attack damage. Lol

Truth is that both of you are presenting overly simplified versions of the fight that could BOTH actually happen or not happen.

And maybe there is a much higher chance like you said but it depends on so many factors that it becomes a silly guessing game.

So congrats you're both equally possibly right about what might have happened in a fictional NB fight in some keep somewhere.

The truth is I was being chased by 5 ppl in the orginal video, plus another 3 from a far, and I made a split second decision to Streak away from the 5 ppl chasing me and that teleported me into some dude hiding behind the stairs from way afar that I didn’t even see.

A split second decision saved me from 5 people and put me near another one. That was the best possible decision in that moment, given that there was no where else to go behind me as it was a Tri Keep.

The truth is EVERYONE here is watching a REPLAY of my fight with the comfort of being able to look for the tiniest details of my decisions. EVERYONE here would have streaked forward if they were put in that exact situation, and everyone would have been hit by that Sorc behind the stairs.

It’s easy to point out mistakes rewatching clips but who here can confidently say they wouldn’t make the same “mistake”? Lol

StaticWave

But that’s not even the point of my video. The point is I got 10 seconds of breathing room before they all caught up to me again, and the class also has no good defensive healing and I wasn’t able to recover to full during that 10s. I would have to be fighting them to heal off my offensive heals, but like isn’t that against the point of retreating lol? Here let me turn around and hit 5 ppl to heal up while also taking damage from 5 ppl that is clearly going to be more than what I can heal.

It makes no sense and instead of seeing the issue they decided to nitpick my decision, which they probably wouldve done the same if they were in the exact situation with a split second to makez

DrNukenstein

Look if you're gonna get cranky about people judging your clips, don't judge people on their use of cloak

StaticWave

DrNukenstein wrote: »

Look if you're gonna get cranky about people judging your clips, don't judge people on their use of cloak

Why don’t they post a clip of an actual fight with Cloak yea? Let everyone here judge their decisions too.

After all I’m actively providing in game evidence to prove my point. Everyone here is just going off their mouth. If Cloak is that bad why don’t you show everyone here just how bad it is?

Bushido2513

DrNukenstein wrote: »

Look if you're gonna get cranky about people judging your clips, don't judge people on their use of cloak

I'd probably say it's more so the issue of judging other pieces of the clip that weren't really part of the topic.

It's the same fair way that people can complain when someone starts hard detailing a thread.

Fair complaints to the clip would have been well if you did XYZ involving or around streak you would have gotten away just fine.

By all means talk about what you like but it's fair in this case to be unhappy that people are directing more commentary to things that weren't part of why the clip was created.

Bushido2513

StaticWave wrote: »

Maybe I’ll just post the full duration of the video so people can see what actually happened.

I doubt people will watch it, and I doubt most of you will be able to survive like I did. Sorry, that isnt going to happen lol. Yall can try to disprove me but at the end of the day, I AM providing my own evidence, from my skill level.

It’s easy to look at other people’s video and judge their mistakes but when you’re put in that situation, you are NOT going to do better than I did.

So if you’re going to criticize me for my gameplay, why don’t you post yours on Sorc? Please let everyone here see how you would have faired in a similar situation.

Other than sounding a bit defensive I will say that I agree that people will always judge differently from the safety of their chairs.

I do also agree that for the sake of understanding the "credentials" of people commenting I would love to see gameplay posted from others on here that seem to have so much to say about how this or that works in pvp.

Tyrant_Tim

StaticWave wrote: »

DrNukenstein wrote: »

Look if you're gonna get cranky about people judging your clips, don't judge people on their use of cloak

Why don’t they post a clip of an actual fight with Cloak yea? Let everyone here judge their decisions too.

After all I’m actively providing in game evidence to prove my point. Everyone here is just going off their mouth. If Cloak is that bad why don’t you show everyone here just how bad it is?

All of the points that need to be made in regards to why this should happen have been made, and are available to be read, and this thread has stayed front page for weeks which is more than enough time to be read by the right people.

Which brings us to the point, of course the people left arguing with you aren’t capable of denying anything that’s been established early on, otherwise they would have done so a week ago.

I’ve purposely avoided this thread due to that reason, once people want to get on and test things out and have their opinions validated, or otherwise, then you can have a meaningful discussion about why you believe the way you do, but they aren’t capable of it, so it’s not worth the engagement.

Bushido2513

StaticWave wrote: »

The truth is I was being chased by 5 ppl in the orginal video, plus another 3 from a far, and I made a split second decision to Streak away from the 5 ppl chasing me and that teleported me into some dude hiding behind the stairs from way afar that I didn’t even see.

A split second decision saved me from 5 people and put me near another one. That was the best possible decision in that moment, given that there was no where else to go behind me as it was a Tri Keep.

The truth is EVERYONE here is watching a REPLAY of my fight with the comfort of being able to look for the tiniest details of my decisions. EVERYONE here would have streaked forward if they were put in that exact situation, and everyone would have been hit by that Sorc behind the stairs.

It’s easy to point out mistakes rewatching clips but who here can confidently say they wouldn’t make the same “mistake”? Lol

Well my comment was about you and that person saying what would happen if it were a NB and how that's just back and forth with no real winning answer.

Regarding the move, I did say there were choices I would have made differently but didn't list specifics because I've been in the situation and I watch my own replays and failures to get better so I know that me saying something off the cuff when I wasn't there doesn't carry all that much weight and could end up being as little as zero help.

StaticWave

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

DrNukenstein wrote: »

Look if you're gonna get cranky about people judging your clips, don't judge people on their use of cloak

Why don’t they post a clip of an actual fight with Cloak yea? Let everyone here judge their decisions too.

After all I’m actively providing in game evidence to prove my point. Everyone here is just going off their mouth. If Cloak is that bad why don’t you show everyone here just how bad it is?

All of the points that need to be made in regards to why this should happen have been made, and are available to be read, and this thread has stayed front page for weeks which is more than enough time to be read by the right people.

Which brings us to the point, of course the people left arguing with you aren’t capable of denying anything that’s been established early on, otherwise they would have done so a week ago.

I’ve purposely avoided this thread due to that reason, once people want to get on and test things out and have their opinions validated, or otherwise, then you can have a meaningful discussion about why you believe the way you do, but they aren’t capable of it, so it’s not worth the engagement.

Yea, pretty much all their arguments have revolved around saying “Cloak is easily countered, Streak isn’t” with practically no in game evidence other than word of mouth. Yet I see plenty of cloak NBs doing just fine in Cyrodiil. In fact there were 3 NBs in a longer version of that clip I posted.

Week 3 patch notes and no signs of reverting Cloak change, so let’s just be prepared for all brawlerblades to slot Cloak and be harder to kill. After all, I did warn ZoS.

Bushido2513

StaticWave wrote: »

UNLESS, you have Cloak, which most of you NBs are so fond of. Cloak would have allowed me to be safe for 3 seconds if nobody had detect pots, or even for 1 second so I could scan the battlefield for other enemies. It’s comforting knowing you can’t be hit in Cloak. I know, I played NB for awhile lol. But maybe drop Cloak once and see how different fighting actually is? You’d be surprised.

Ehhhh I'd say stick to what you have video of and what not.

Like you said, different enemies. Just as much as you can describe this to be an easier time with cloak so too can I describe a scenario where cloak would be sub par and streak would work better.

There's just too many other factors in a high level fight to write out in a simple post.

IncultaWolf

StaticWave wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

DrNukenstein wrote: »

Look if you're gonna get cranky about people judging your clips, don't judge people on their use of cloak

Why don’t they post a clip of an actual fight with Cloak yea? Let everyone here judge their decisions too.

After all I’m actively providing in game evidence to prove my point. Everyone here is just going off their mouth. If Cloak is that bad why don’t you show everyone here just how bad it is?

All of the points that need to be made in regards to why this should happen have been made, and are available to be read, and this thread has stayed front page for weeks which is more than enough time to be read by the right people.

Which brings us to the point, of course the people left arguing with you aren’t capable of denying anything that’s been established early on, otherwise they would have done so a week ago.

I’ve purposely avoided this thread due to that reason, once people want to get on and test things out and have their opinions validated, or otherwise, then you can have a meaningful discussion about why you believe the way you do, but they aren’t capable of it, so it’s not worth the engagement.

Yea, pretty much all their arguments have revolved around saying “Cloak is easily countered, Streak isn’t” with practically no in game evidence other than word of mouth. Yet I see plenty of cloak NBs doing just fine in Cyrodiil. In fact there were 3 NBs in a longer version of that clip I posted.

Week 3 patch notes and no signs of reverting Cloak change, so let’s just be prepared for all brawlerblades to slot Cloak and be harder to kill. After all, I did warn ZoS.

I will be doing my part, and doing exactly that on my brawlerblade

ShadowProc

Bushido2513 wrote: »

ShadowProc wrote: »

This the problem. They think they should be able to kill anyone anytime without using existing counters. Anything that increases time to kill should be nerfed. And that they shouldn't have increasing cost on streak to chase you to kill you.

You want revamping cost because you don't like wasting a pot? Fine. Give me a pot that disables all gap closers or prevents reveals and I will "waste" the pot.

Yeah nobody said any of that. Most here are interested in fair solutions.

And by that I mean generally that people are looking to reign in a class that seems to be over performing.

I can't recall anyone here saying they shouldn't have to use counters

They absolutely said it. Read from the beginning. They said it tons. As an example they shouldn't have to waste 45 seconds on a detect pot.

ShadowProc

StaticWave wrote: »

Zastrix wrote: »

I don't play PvP because the community is so bad so I'm PvE exlusive. Having read through most of the comments here (again, from an exclusively PvE-only perspective) the whole thread basically just screams copium and skill issue from the Sorc's side.

Edit: especially the last comment. It doesn't matter that I made a dumb move went straight into people, I would've 100% GUARANTEED survived if I were a nightblade because reasons. Yeah, you wouldn't have, just a lot of copium.

Edit v2: 420th comment. Nice.

“I don’t play PvP” is enough information I need to know about you.

You have no say in this argument whatsoever, and you definitely won’t be able to do this when I ask you:

Please post a video of you 1vXing on sorc and replicate the same scenario like I did. I will wait.

Dude. All your prooving this and all your other threads you make are about your unhappiness with Sorc.

I don't blame you but you are very transparent. Put that energy into buffing sorc posts and stop wanting other classes that people are actually enjoying to be crushed to join your unhappiness.

ShadowProc

StaticWave wrote: »

ShadowProc wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Ringeren wrote: »

I pvp with NB and Sorc (and others including vampire), and if you think cloak is as good as blink for escaping, you haven't played it yourself. I'm sure half my cloaks end early from debuffs i got on or enemy just uses an aoe when I vanish to hit me out of it or they have flare slotted. While two blinks in a row is 95% chance of escape unless you have other vampire/sorc after you.

If you want cloak to have ramping cost you need to buff it more, like give back the cleanse it used to have or give it major expedition (which has so many other sources it wouldn't really be a good buff even).

StaticWave wrote: »

For whoever said 2 streaks and I'm out of range, here is a clip of me just a few hours ago 1vXing in Cyrodiil.

https://youtu.be/F1nyQtWv6Ts

Just for context, my total movement speed in this clip was 198% (21% from 3x Swift, 15% from Hurricane, 10% from Orc sprint, 12% from 4 medium, and 40% base sprint speed).

I streaked twice AND sprinted. I still got hit by lightning heavy attack and several debuffs + DoTs being reapplied. It was only until I line of sighted around the wall up until 2nd floor that I got 10 seconds of breathing room. They were right up on me afterwards.

This is clip is exactly what's wrong with Sorc right now. I am basically speed capped with Streak, yet I'm still taking a lot of damage from ranged attacks + whatever DoTs they put on me. I was completely drained of resources despite having 1.5k regen on both stats, Essence Thief, and Dark Deal sustain. Even with 10 seconds of breathing room, I couldn't get myself up either because Sorc has practically no burst heal or defensive HoTs. The only way for me to reliably heal is by being offensive, which means I had to turn back and fight the people I ran away from. I mean what? I think @Turtle_Bot experienced something similar a month ago on their Sorc.

If I was a brawler NB, I would have no problem kiting that group and healing through their damage.

You didn't use 2 streaks to get away, you streaked once INTO the pet sorc and incoming DK from the right, and then one more to get away. And if you look carefully at 12 sec you see the red aura of vampire mist form in the ground floor doorway from the guy chasing you. Read the last sentence again in my first bit...

It didn’t matter if I Streaked right into the pet Sorc. My last Streak teleported me away from him and I sprinted with clear distance from him, yet still took damage from his lightning attack.

If I was on a NB, I would have cloaked around the corner at the beginning of the video and saved all my mag. This is where you failed to understand my point.

And if you knew what you were talking about or listened you would know that it doesn't work like that. There is a much higher chance it doesn't work or is broken.

If they put structured entropy or Elemental Susceptibility you will have to cast cloak repeatedly if your outnumbered. Or you get detected by a detect pot it's GG. Unlike streak where you can get away. And take a little heavy attack damage. Lol

I get hit while casting Streak repeatedly too. Your point?

And just because there was a single ranged player in that fight doesn’t mean I won’t ever encounter more ranged players. Different fights, different enemies man…

Just like how not everyone is slotting detect pots or have it ready to use against you. Different fights, different enemies.

Yet Streak gets a ramping cost while Cloak doesn’t lol?

If you don't get the difference no offense toj never will. I won't engage with you again on the differences. We will have to agree to disagree.

There is not a single person in here that can't see your doing all this because of the state of sorc. I feel your pain. It's happened to my mains before as well. And all I can say is enjoy what you can or switchtoons and find some fun fights. It's a game and you are mad at something on your class but are choosing to try to make others have less fun.

Goodluck to you.

ShadowProc

StaticWave wrote: »

But that’s not even the point of my video. The point is I got 10 seconds of breathing room before they all caught up to me again, and the class also has no good defensive healing and I wasn’t able to recover to full during that 10s. I would have to be fighting them to heal off my offensive heals, but like isn’t that against the point of retreating lol? Here let me turn around and hit 5 ppl to heal up while also taking damage from 5 ppl that is clearly going to be more than what I can heal.

It makes no sense and instead of seeing the issue they decided to nitpick my decision, which they probably wouldve done the same if they were in the exact situation with a split second to makez

Your video is about 1vxing. So your complaint is about not being able to 1vx? I thought you said dueling is where balance should be?

ShadowProc

StaticWave wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

ShadowProc wrote: »

And if you knew what you were talking about or listened you would know that it doesn't work like that. There is a much higher chance it doesn't work or is broken.

If they put structured entropy or Elemental Susceptibility you will have to cast cloak repeatedly if your outnumbered. Or you get detected by a detect pot it's GG. Unlike streak where you can get away. And take a little heavy attack damage. Lol

Truth is that both of you are presenting overly simplified versions of the fight that could BOTH actually happen or not happen.

And maybe there is a much higher chance like you said but it depends on so many factors that it becomes a silly guessing game.

So congrats you're both equally possibly right about what might have happened in a fictional NB fight in some keep somewhere.

The truth is I was being chased by 5 ppl in the orginal video, plus another 3 from a far, and I made a split second decision to Streak away from the 5 ppl chasing me and that teleported me into some dude hiding behind the stairs from way afar that I didn’t even see.

A split second decision saved me from 5 people and put me near another one. That was the best possible decision in that moment, given that there was no where else to go behind me as it was a Tri Keep.

The truth is EVERYONE here is watching a REPLAY of my fight with the comfort of being able to look for the tiniest details of my decisions. EVERYONE here would have streaked forward if they were put in that exact situation, and everyone would have been hit by that Sorc behind the stairs.

It’s easy to point out mistakes rewatching clips but who here can confidently say they wouldn’t make the same “mistake”? Lol

It's also easy to point out skill that was just luck or a mistake that worked. Works both ways.