Ramping Cost for Nightblade Cloak

ShadowProc

StaticWave wrote: »

ShadowProc wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

@ebix_

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Bushido2513 wrote: »

ShadowProc wrote: »

Don't worry. Zos doesn't make balance changes on emotions. And I can't remember the last time they made changes based on the mob l
On these forums.

That would be wrong on the first count and while I can't speak to your memory I can say the second count is unknown but likely wrong as well.

People remember things the way that suits them but if you actually go back and read the dev notes and compare them with forum posts at the same time you'll see a couple of patterns.

1 ZOS makes balance changes based upon their own goals however it's clear that some are likely based on their own emotions. Now if you're saying ZOS doesn't make changes based on the emotions of the players that would also be wrong. They do but I will refer back to point 1, they will make changes to appease the customer base but only if its fairly in line with point 1 meaning they were pretty much already going to do something in that area.

Though to your point I will say they very rarely make a direct and fast change based on the mob. It usually comes a patch cycle or two later and again only because they probably were going to touch that area of the game anyway.

So as always in the game, enjoy it if it's at a place that works for you. Some of us just aren't as happy and want to talk about that and hey that's life and that's ok.

Exactly. Patches later will be too late so they lost the forum duel since they're so interested in duels.

[edited for baiting & to remove quote]

WreckfulAbandon

Yea you hear that NB mains, stop bumping this thread and let it die, NB is getting a good haul next patch so let's not mess it up by talking about class balance or anything.

StaticWave

For whoever said 2 streaks and I'm out of range, here is a clip of me just a few hours ago 1vXing in Cyrodiil.

https://youtu.be/F1nyQtWv6Ts

Just for context, my total movement speed in this clip was 198% (21% from 3x Swift, 15% from Hurricane, 10% from Orc sprint, 12% from 4 medium, and 40% base sprint speed).

I streaked twice AND sprinted. I still got hit by lightning heavy attack and several debuffs + DoTs being reapplied. It was only until I line of sighted around the wall up until 2nd floor that I got 10 seconds of breathing room. They were right up on me afterwards.

This is clip is exactly what's wrong with Sorc right now. I am basically speed capped with Streak, yet I'm still taking a lot of damage from ranged attacks + whatever DoTs they put on me. I was completely drained of resources despite having 1.5k regen on both stats, Essence Thief, and Dark Deal sustain. Even with 10 seconds of breathing room, I couldn't get myself up either because Sorc has practically no burst heal or defensive HoTs. The only way for me to reliably heal is by being offensive, which means I had to turn back and fight the people I ran away from. I mean what? I think @Turtle_Bot experienced something similar a month ago on their Sorc.

If I was a brawler NB, I would have no problem kiting that group and healing through their damage.

Tommy_The_Gun

Tbh I am kinda amazed by something else. The fanatical (almost) desire and dedication to nerf something, regardless of that thing needing a nerf or not. I mean if you play this game longer and you have experienced a nerf to your build/class/skill/set/race etc then you know how it feels. You know what I mean. And trust me - I myself would not want such experience/fate for my worst enemies.

Either way, as far as I am aware there are only 2 abilities in the game that have ramping cost. Streak (& both morphs) and Mist Form (& both morphs). There is a fundamental difference in how those "movement" / blink / teleport skills operate vs how cloak & invisibility work (it is not apples to apples comparison).

- Movement skills like blink/teleport move you away instantly and can not be cancelled by other players.
- Cloak & invisibility makes you invisible. Granted, after you cloak you can not be targeted by single target skills (as enemy can't see you) but it is not like you are teleported 15m away. And invisibility can be interrupted easily and often even unintentionally (direct damage AOE that ppl use anyway and flare that ppl slot anyway for the very strong passive buff).

My point is that both skills are different and should be treated differently as both work differently. Mechanics used to balance out one should not be used to balance out the other as it would only cause more problems.

For example, if we are talking about same standards (and assume both skills are "apples"), then yeah, add ramping cost to cloak, but at the same time remove the stuff that is currently used to keep the skill in check (all of those detection skills/sets/potion etc) - because those are the "equivalent" of a ramping cost.

It is the same if you wanted to add anty-teleport skills/sets/potions but still keep ramping cost for Streak & Mist Form. It would be too much and would make skill useless.

StaticWave

So when the NB mains here keep telling me that Streak is easy to get away, I can't take any of them seriously. You know what would happen if I was on a NB?

I would still hit the speed cap. I would LoS around a corner, then disappear into thin air and escape. They have detect pots? Not a big deal. I know how to survive without Cloak. I'll just kite them around corners for 15s until their detect is up and I'll be back to cloaking.

ShadowProc

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Tbh I am kinda amazed by something else. The fanatical (almost) desire and dedication to nerf something, regardless of that thing needing a nerf or not. I mean if you play this game longer and you have experienced a nerf to your build/class/skill/set/race etc then you know how it feels. You know what I mean. And trust me - I myself would not want such experience/fate for my worst enemies.

Either way, as far as I am aware there are only 2 abilities in the game that have ramping cost. Streak (& both morphs) and Mist Form (& both morphs). There is a fundamental difference in how those "movement" / blink / teleport skills operate vs how cloak & invisibility work (it is not apples to apples comparison).

- Movement skills like blink/teleport move you away instantly and can not be cancelled by other players.
- Cloak & invisibility makes you invisible. Granted, after you cloak you can not be targeted by single target skills (as enemy can't see you) but it is not like you are teleported 15m away. And invisibility can be interrupted easily and often even unintentionally (direct damage AOE that ppl use anyway and flare that ppl slot anyway for the very strong passive buff).

My point is that both skills are different and should be treated differently as both work differently. Mechanics used to balance out one should not be used to balance out the other as it would only cause more problems.

For example, if we are talking about same standards (and assume both skills are "apples"), then yeah, add ramping cost to cloak, but at the same time remove the stuff that is currently used to keep the skill in check (all of those detection skills/sets/potion etc) - because those are the "equivalent" of a ramping cost.

It is the same if you wanted to add anty-teleport skills/sets/potions but still keep ramping cost for Streak & Mist Form. It would be too much and would make skill useless.

Exactly. This has been pointed out numerous times to demonstrate why cloak is different and they choose to disagree.

That's fine. But at the end of the day this is a great point that is a fact and cannot be disputed.

ZOS_Icy

Greetings,

We have removed some insulting back and forth in addition to some baiting posts that were disruptive.

• Trolling or Baiting: The act of trolling is defined as something that is created for the intent to provoke conflict, shock others, or to elicit a strong negative or emotional reaction. It’s okay and very normal to disagree with others, and even to debate, but provoking conflict, baiting, inciting, mocking, etc. is never acceptable in the official The Elder Scrolls Online community. If you do not have something constructive or meaningful to add to a discussion, we strongly recommend you refrain from posting in that thread, and find another discussion to participate in instead. It is also not constructive or helpful to publicly call out others and accuse them of trolling, or call them a troll—please refrain from doing so. If you genuinely believe someone is trolling, please report the post or thread to the ESO Team, and leave it at that.

Please ensure you are treating others with respect on the forums even when they have views that differ from your own. This is a friendly reminder that comments need to adhere to our Forum Rules.

Thank you for your understanding.

Foxtrot39

StaticWave wrote: »

For whoever said 2 streaks and I'm out of range, here is a clip of me just a few hours ago 1vXing in Cyrodiil.

https://youtu.be/F1nyQtWv6Ts

Just for context, my total movement speed in this clip was 198% (21% from 3x Swift, 15% from Hurricane, 10% from Orc sprint, 12% from 4 medium, and 40% base sprint speed).

I streaked twice AND sprinted. I still got hit by lightning heavy attack and several debuffs + DoTs being reapplied. It was only until I line of sighted around the wall up until 2nd floor that I got 10 seconds of breathing room. They were right up on me afterwards.

This is clip is exactly what's wrong with Sorc right now. I am basically speed capped with Streak, yet I'm still taking a lot of damage from ranged attacks + whatever DoTs they put on me. I was completely drained of resources despite having 1.5k regen on both stats, Essence Thief, and Dark Deal sustain. Even with 10 seconds of breathing room, I couldn't get myself up either because Sorc has practically no burst heal or defensive HoTs. The only way for me to reliably heal is by being offensive, which means I had to turn back and fight the people I ran away from. I mean what? I think @Turtle_Bot experienced something similar a month ago on their Sorc.

If I was a brawler NB, I would have no problem kiting that group and healing through their damage.

Then the solution is to lower the speed cap on player movement so you cant counter a distance creating skill passively

Or buff the distance you cover with it

Bushido2513

ShadowProc wrote: »

Exactly. Patches later will be too late so they lost the forum duel since they're so interested in duels.

Duels in the game and debates on the forums are very different animals as one is a more defined instance with rules and a clear winner and loser.

In any case I'm willing to bet and anyone here can correct me, that nobody who engaged in this conversation ever though ZOS would react immediately. The point was always to just voice opinions on all sides and let ZOS do what they will with the feedback.

I think some want to make it seem as if there's an immediate response from ZOS on the line because it spices things up but that's just not how ZOS works most of the time fortunately/unfortunately.


So nobody lost and nobody won, we just talked a lot and shared thoughts.

ShadowProc

ShadowProc wrote: »

[

StaticWave wrote: »

For whoever said 2 streaks and I'm out of range, here is a clip of me just a few hours ago 1vXing in Cyrodiil.

https://youtu.be/F1nyQtWv6Ts

Just for context, my total movement speed in this clip was 198% (21% from 3x Swift, 15% from Hurricane, 10% from Orc sprint, 12% from 4 medium, and 40% base sprint speed).

I streaked twice AND sprinted. I still got hit by lightning heavy attack and several debuffs + DoTs being reapplied. It was only until I line of sighted around the wall up until 2nd floor that I got 10 seconds of breathing room. They were right up on me afterwards.

This is clip is exactly what's wrong with Sorc right now. I am basically speed capped with Streak, yet I'm still taking a lot of damage from ranged attacks + whatever DoTs they put on me. I was completely drained of resources despite having 1.5k regen on both stats, Essence Thief, and Dark Deal sustain. Even with 10 seconds of breathing room, I couldn't get myself up either because Sorc has practically no burst heal or defensive HoTs. The only way for me to reliably heal is by being offensive, which means I had to turn back and fight the people I ran away from. I mean what? I think @Turtle_Bot experienced something similar a month ago on their Sorc.

If I was a brawler NB, I would have no problem kiting that group and healing through their damage.

Sorry dude.

Bushido2513 wrote: »

ShadowProc wrote: »

Exactly. Patches later will be too late so they lost the forum duel since they're so interested in duels.

Duels in the game and debates on the forums are very different animals as one is a more defined instance with rules and a clear winner and loser.

In any case I'm willing to bet and anyone here can correct me, that nobody who engaged in this conversation ever though ZOS would react immediately. The point was always to just voice opinions on all sides and let ZOS do what they will with the feedback.

I think some want to make it seem as if there's an immediate response from ZOS on the line because it spices things up but that's just not how ZOS works most of the time fortunately/unfortunately.


So nobody lost and nobody won, we just talked a lot and shared thoughts.

Agree to disagree. No valid points made to nerf. Motion is denied.

Skill is getting a buff. Hopefully you all made enough noise to have them rethink that. But not even close to justifying a nerf.

Bushido2513

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Tbh I am kinda amazed by something else. The fanatical (almost) desire and dedication to nerf something, regardless of that thing needing a nerf or not. I mean if you play this game longer and you have experienced a nerf to your build/class/skill/set/race etc then you know how it feels. You know what I mean. And trust me - I myself would not want such experience/fate for my worst enemies.

Either way, as far as I am aware there are only 2 abilities in the game that have ramping cost. Streak (& both morphs) and Mist Form (& both morphs). There is a fundamental difference in how those "movement" / blink / teleport skills operate vs how cloak & invisibility work (it is not apples to apples comparison).

- Movement skills like blink/teleport move you away instantly and can not be cancelled by other players.
- Cloak & invisibility makes you invisible. Granted, after you cloak you can not be targeted by single target skills (as enemy can't see you) but it is not like you are teleported 15m away. And invisibility can be interrupted easily and often even unintentionally (direct damage AOE that ppl use anyway and flare that ppl slot anyway for the very strong passive buff).

My point is that both skills are different and should be treated differently as both work differently. Mechanics used to balance out one should not be used to balance out the other as it would only cause more problems.

For example, if we are talking about same standards (and assume both skills are "apples"), then yeah, add ramping cost to cloak, but at the same time remove the stuff that is currently used to keep the skill in check (all of those detection skills/sets/potion etc) - because those are the "equivalent" of a ramping cost.

It is the same if you wanted to add anty-teleport skills/sets/potions but still keep ramping cost for Streak & Mist Form. It would be too much and would make skill useless.

So the problem with everything you just said is the same problem for both sides. Everyone is basically saying what they think would happen if this change was made. Everyone has a justification as to why this should or shouldn't be done.

You describe it as almost fanatical and dedicated then you give this reasoning (which has already been given in different ways). You've now just become part of the same back and forth. So I guess in my opinion you should be just as amazed with the defense of the thing because that's on par with any of the request.

I guess I'm just saying it's all just back and forth and fun input to hear on an idea that may or may not work but that can't be understood fully by just talking about the thing.

Bushido2513

ShadowProc wrote: »

Exactly. This has been pointed out numerous times to demonstrate why cloak is different and they choose to disagree.

That's fine. But at the end of the day this is a great point that is a fact and cannot be disputed.

Well nobody is debating that they are absolutely different skills. That is a fact.

What people are debating is the cost vs the utility of each sill. It's not a simple thing but the debate is that simple.

The comparison is just that streak is a model for a skill that needed a cost adjustment when it was being use back to back.

This thread is about applying a cost metric to cloak when being used back to back. Nobody is saying they are the same at all but more so posing the idea that a cost metric might work here as well.


I have said multiple times that I'm also ok with another elegant solution instead of just using a cost metric from another skill. I think some are too focused on the thing in front of them vs the bigger idea that it's just part of a quest for balance.

NB is performing at a higher level on average in pvp than it should be for multiple reasons. This is just one way of reining it in a bit.

Maybe this change isn't the best way to bring that in line, maybe it is. It's really impossible to tell without seeing it in live though I have a feeling builds would adjust and be just fine for the most part. Again that's a feeling and nobody here can say what would actually happen without a crystal ball.


I really do want to hear both sides of everyone's opinions and I think it's great to give this info to ZOS. Even if it is getting a little saturated with rhetoric and such.


Just try to remember that the forums aren't an actual pvp zone. We have a whole game for that so maybe try to keep that over there.

Bushido2513

Foxtrot39 wrote: »

Then the solution is to lower the speed cap on player movement so you cant counter a distance creating skill passively

Or buff the distance you cover with it

I don't want to get too off topic but I did want to say good ideas though the will require a bit more thought I think.

Lowering the speed cap would have to be looked at carefully as it would affect players in and out of pvp and there are a few items that say speed buff x out of pvp so that possibly lowers their value. Also it's at the number it's at because of so many sources that allow you to hit higher movement speed. I say that to say that I wouldn't want to kill off the style of player that just wants to sacrifice everything for speed for whatever reason.

I don't think adding distance would work in all cases because I think that's done that way to take into effect certain interactions with gap closers and the game engine. Though it would be interesting to see how it would play out.

Still, cool ideas

Tommy_The_Gun

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Tbh I am kinda amazed by something else. The fanatical (almost) desire and dedication to nerf something, regardless of that thing needing a nerf or not. I mean if you play this game longer and you have experienced a nerf to your build/class/skill/set/race etc then you know how it feels. You know what I mean. And trust me - I myself would not want such experience/fate for my worst enemies.

Either way, as far as I am aware there are only 2 abilities in the game that have ramping cost. Streak (& both morphs) and Mist Form (& both morphs). There is a fundamental difference in how those "movement" / blink / teleport skills operate vs how cloak & invisibility work (it is not apples to apples comparison).

- Movement skills like blink/teleport move you away instantly and can not be cancelled by other players.
- Cloak & invisibility makes you invisible. Granted, after you cloak you can not be targeted by single target skills (as enemy can't see you) but it is not like you are teleported 15m away. And invisibility can be interrupted easily and often even unintentionally (direct damage AOE that ppl use anyway and flare that ppl slot anyway for the very strong passive buff).

My point is that both skills are different and should be treated differently as both work differently. Mechanics used to balance out one should not be used to balance out the other as it would only cause more problems.

For example, if we are talking about same standards (and assume both skills are "apples"), then yeah, add ramping cost to cloak, but at the same time remove the stuff that is currently used to keep the skill in check (all of those detection skills/sets/potion etc) - because those are the "equivalent" of a ramping cost.

It is the same if you wanted to add anty-teleport skills/sets/potions but still keep ramping cost for Streak & Mist Form. It would be too much and would make skill useless.

So the problem with everything you just said is the same problem for both sides. Everyone is basically saying what they think would happen if this change was made. Everyone has a justification as to why this should or shouldn't be done.

You are right - it is a constant back & forth between 2 groups and it is not the 1st thread about it. And to be honest the whole NB vs Sorc drama is actually not even getting boring any more, but it is rather a meme now (like Tom & Jerry lol).

Still, I do think that if some one thinks that if something is too strong and should be nerfed then it is on them to prove it and provide reasonable arguments why. And so far, all I can see is just like you have pointed out - 2 groups of people and no one is "winning".

Anyway, I guess it is good that we are all allowed to have different opinions on things

StaticWave

Foxtrot39 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

For whoever said 2 streaks and I'm out of range, here is a clip of me just a few hours ago 1vXing in Cyrodiil.

https://youtu.be/F1nyQtWv6Ts

Just for context, my total movement speed in this clip was 198% (21% from 3x Swift, 15% from Hurricane, 10% from Orc sprint, 12% from 4 medium, and 40% base sprint speed).

I streaked twice AND sprinted. I still got hit by lightning heavy attack and several debuffs + DoTs being reapplied. It was only until I line of sighted around the wall up until 2nd floor that I got 10 seconds of breathing room. They were right up on me afterwards.

This is clip is exactly what's wrong with Sorc right now. I am basically speed capped with Streak, yet I'm still taking a lot of damage from ranged attacks + whatever DoTs they put on me. I was completely drained of resources despite having 1.5k regen on both stats, Essence Thief, and Dark Deal sustain. Even with 10 seconds of breathing room, I couldn't get myself up either because Sorc has practically no burst heal or defensive HoTs. The only way for me to reliably heal is by being offensive, which means I had to turn back and fight the people I ran away from. I mean what? I think @Turtle_Bot experienced something similar a month ago on their Sorc.

If I was a brawler NB, I would have no problem kiting that group and healing through their damage.

Then the solution is to lower the speed cap on player movement so you cant counter a distance creating skill passively

Or buff the distance you cover with it

Which is what I and many Sorc mains suggested, specifically with movement speed.

Bushido2513

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Still, I do think that if some one thinks that if something is too strong and should be nerfed then it is on them to prove it and provide reasonable arguments why.

Well that's the thing, there's no way to do that here because you only have the two sides and no third party to say one side or the other has a more reasonable argument.

This argument is more about feelings so there's no real way to have a reasonable argument.

One side feels like nb overall/cloak spam is too strong, the other feels like things are just fine and of course is defensive about something possibly being taken away from them

One convincing the other that they should be weaker for the greater good probably feels like me walking up to a millionaire and saying hey give me and these other guys some of your money because then things will be more balanced.

I think the results there would be similar to the results here.

But that's when the third party steps in and just makes a choice to support one side or the other. In this case that's ZOS.

So instead of getting all finger pointy and making it personal people should just list out their thoughts and let ZOS do what they do in a patch or two.

That being said, I do support offering counterpoints but it doesn't have to be done or taken as a personal attack.

Bushido2513

StaticWave wrote: »

Foxtrot39 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

For whoever said 2 streaks and I'm out of range, here is a clip of me just a few hours ago 1vXing in Cyrodiil.

https://youtu.be/F1nyQtWv6Ts

Just for context, my total movement speed in this clip was 198% (21% from 3x Swift, 15% from Hurricane, 10% from Orc sprint, 12% from 4 medium, and 40% base sprint speed).

I streaked twice AND sprinted. I still got hit by lightning heavy attack and several debuffs + DoTs being reapplied. It was only until I line of sighted around the wall up until 2nd floor that I got 10 seconds of breathing room. They were right up on me afterwards.

This is clip is exactly what's wrong with Sorc right now. I am basically speed capped with Streak, yet I'm still taking a lot of damage from ranged attacks + whatever DoTs they put on me. I was completely drained of resources despite having 1.5k regen on both stats, Essence Thief, and Dark Deal sustain. Even with 10 seconds of breathing room, I couldn't get myself up either because Sorc has practically no burst heal or defensive HoTs. The only way for me to reliably heal is by being offensive, which means I had to turn back and fight the people I ran away from. I mean what? I think @Turtle_Bot experienced something similar a month ago on their Sorc.

If I was a brawler NB, I would have no problem kiting that group and healing through their damage.

Then the solution is to lower the speed cap on player movement so you cant counter a distance creating skill passively

Or buff the distance you cover with it

Which is what I and many Sorc mains suggested, specifically with movement speed.

It's a good idea in simplicity but needs more thought and work in order to not greatly upset other parts of the game that involve movement speed economy.

GooGa592

If not a ramping cost for cloak, then a can't cloak while in combat adjustment would work too. The attacking then immediately spamming cloak is a horrible mechanic to have put into a PvP combat environment.

athena9205

Please don't add ramping cost to PVE cloaks. If necessary, make it PVP only. I use dark cloak all the time in PVE and its bad enough cost as it is.

Bushido2513

GooGa592 wrote: »

If not a ramping cost for cloak, then a can't cloak while in combat adjustment would work too. The attacking then immediately spamming cloak is a horrible mechanic to have put into a PvP combat environment.

Yeah that kind of sounds like a bad idea to be honest but I appreciate thinking outside the box and you do bring up a good point.

The more I think about it the more I think cloak could use an anti spam mechanic same as streak and here's why.

So if streak had no anti spam mechanic it would be dangerous and obnoxious to anyone that didn't have good movement speed or a gap closer and would be a buff to sustain for sorc

I think cloak spam is similar, it's potentially dangerous and obnoxious when someone isn't using a counter.

In each case I do think that a person not packing a counter should get wrecked however not such an overpowered degree. Like with sorc, one will possibly reset the fight and eventually kill you if you have no response to streak. At the very least they will get away pretty easily as they deserve to however it won't be as egregious as it would be if there was no ramp mechanic.


I think nb deserves to win the fight when no anti cloak mechanics are being employed, just not to a silly ridiculous factor where they can just spam cloak at will. They should win but still with some level of careful decision making about resources.

Personally I think if I was cloaking with ramping cost on fighting build and got revealed then I would just maybe block, roll dodge attack, heal, etc till I could do something else or cloak again.

That's a simplistic example but the point is that I don't think it's anywhere near impossible to have a build that would function well even if cloak had a ramp cost. People would just fight and possibly build different I'd think.

Bushido2513

athena9205 wrote: »

Please don't add ramping cost to PVE cloaks. If necessary, make it PVP only. I use dark cloak all the time in PVE and its bad enough cost as it is.

This hasn't been brought up yet and while I don't think it would be that bad of an issue I certainly get where you're coming from.

SaffronCitrusflower

Bushido2513 wrote: »

athena9205 wrote: »

Please don't add ramping cost to PVE cloaks. If necessary, make it PVP only. I use dark cloak all the time in PVE and its bad enough cost as it is.

This hasn't been brought up yet and while I don't think it would be that bad of an issue I certainly get where you're coming from.

Why would anyone need to cloak in PvE?

Bushido2513

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

athena9205 wrote: »

Please don't add ramping cost to PVE cloaks. If necessary, make it PVP only. I use dark cloak all the time in PVE and its bad enough cost as it is.

This hasn't been brought up yet and while I don't think it would be that bad of an issue I certainly get where you're coming from.

Why would anyone need to cloak in PvE?

That I can think of off hand, stealth quest and gear farming. There have been times when I would solo farm and just skip ads in a dungeon or other public area. Or if I want to chest farm and not be bothered by ads. There are some questlines that require stealth where you don't have to do al the tedious sneaking using cloak.

In most of those cases you can get by without having to spam cloak if you're careful but spamming cloak makes it a lot easier.

I just wanted to mention that in regards to the morph we all talking about. This person is talking about Dark Cloak which is used as a heal/hot for tanks and others in pve.

Dark Cloak has already been nerfed so having a ramp mechanic on that doesn't make any sense that I can see. Hopefully even if they did add a ramp mechanic it would only apply to the one morph.

StaticWave

Bushido2513 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Foxtrot39 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

For whoever said 2 streaks and I'm out of range, here is a clip of me just a few hours ago 1vXing in Cyrodiil.

https://youtu.be/F1nyQtWv6Ts

Just for context, my total movement speed in this clip was 198% (21% from 3x Swift, 15% from Hurricane, 10% from Orc sprint, 12% from 4 medium, and 40% base sprint speed).

I streaked twice AND sprinted. I still got hit by lightning heavy attack and several debuffs + DoTs being reapplied. It was only until I line of sighted around the wall up until 2nd floor that I got 10 seconds of breathing room. They were right up on me afterwards.

This is clip is exactly what's wrong with Sorc right now. I am basically speed capped with Streak, yet I'm still taking a lot of damage from ranged attacks + whatever DoTs they put on me. I was completely drained of resources despite having 1.5k regen on both stats, Essence Thief, and Dark Deal sustain. Even with 10 seconds of breathing room, I couldn't get myself up either because Sorc has practically no burst heal or defensive HoTs. The only way for me to reliably heal is by being offensive, which means I had to turn back and fight the people I ran away from. I mean what? I think @Turtle_Bot experienced something similar a month ago on their Sorc.

If I was a brawler NB, I would have no problem kiting that group and healing through their damage.

Then the solution is to lower the speed cap on player movement so you cant counter a distance creating skill passively

Or buff the distance you cover with it

Which is what I and many Sorc mains suggested, specifically with movement speed.

It's a good idea in simplicity but needs more thought and work in order to not greatly upset other parts of the game that involve movement speed economy.

Yea, the solution isn’t to lower speed cap, but rather reduce the sources of movement speed that are freely available in the game.

Ringeren

I pvp with NB and Sorc (and others including vampire), and if you think cloak is as good as blink for escaping, you haven't played it yourself. I'm sure half my cloaks end early from debuffs i got on or enemy just uses an aoe when I vanish to hit me out of it or they have flare slotted. While two blinks in a row is 95% chance of escape unless you have other vampire/sorc after you.

If you want cloak to have ramping cost you need to buff it more, like give back the cleanse it used to have or give it major expedition (which has so many other sources it wouldn't really be a good buff even).

StaticWave wrote: »

For whoever said 2 streaks and I'm out of range, here is a clip of me just a few hours ago 1vXing in Cyrodiil.

https://youtu.be/F1nyQtWv6Ts

Just for context, my total movement speed in this clip was 198% (21% from 3x Swift, 15% from Hurricane, 10% from Orc sprint, 12% from 4 medium, and 40% base sprint speed).

I streaked twice AND sprinted. I still got hit by lightning heavy attack and several debuffs + DoTs being reapplied. It was only until I line of sighted around the wall up until 2nd floor that I got 10 seconds of breathing room. They were right up on me afterwards.

This is clip is exactly what's wrong with Sorc right now. I am basically speed capped with Streak, yet I'm still taking a lot of damage from ranged attacks + whatever DoTs they put on me. I was completely drained of resources despite having 1.5k regen on both stats, Essence Thief, and Dark Deal sustain. Even with 10 seconds of breathing room, I couldn't get myself up either because Sorc has practically no burst heal or defensive HoTs. The only way for me to reliably heal is by being offensive, which means I had to turn back and fight the people I ran away from. I mean what? I think @Turtle_Bot experienced something similar a month ago on their Sorc.

If I was a brawler NB, I would have no problem kiting that group and healing through their damage.

You didn't use 2 streaks to get away, you streaked once INTO the pet sorc and incoming DK from the right, and then one more to get away. And if you look carefully at 12 sec you see the red aura of vampire mist form in the ground floor doorway from the guy chasing you. Read the last sentence again in my first bit...

Vanionator

I main a NB in pvp, I don't care about a ramp-cost implementation, I can work around that.

Sorcs in pvp, I suck at them... badly, but their ramp-up cost, isn't fair. In some ways, the vamp skill Mist form is superior. Maybe take some of the defensive aspects(or benefits) and apply them to streak. ie: You gain Major Expedition and Major Evasion for 4 seconds after reappearing, increasing your Movement Speed by 30% and reducing damage from area attacks by 20%. Casting again within 4 seconds costs 33% more Magicka. And change Ball of lightning back to what it once was. Keep the stun, but breath some life back into that class.

Just some thoughts, not here to argue.

StaticWave

Ringeren wrote: »

I pvp with NB and Sorc (and others including vampire), and if you think cloak is as good as blink for escaping, you haven't played it yourself. I'm sure half my cloaks end early from debuffs i got on or enemy just uses an aoe when I vanish to hit me out of it or they have flare slotted. While two blinks in a row is 95% chance of escape unless you have other vampire/sorc after you.

If you want cloak to have ramping cost you need to buff it more, like give back the cleanse it used to have or give it major expedition (which has so many other sources it wouldn't really be a good buff even).

StaticWave wrote: »

For whoever said 2 streaks and I'm out of range, here is a clip of me just a few hours ago 1vXing in Cyrodiil.

https://youtu.be/F1nyQtWv6Ts

Just for context, my total movement speed in this clip was 198% (21% from 3x Swift, 15% from Hurricane, 10% from Orc sprint, 12% from 4 medium, and 40% base sprint speed).

I streaked twice AND sprinted. I still got hit by lightning heavy attack and several debuffs + DoTs being reapplied. It was only until I line of sighted around the wall up until 2nd floor that I got 10 seconds of breathing room. They were right up on me afterwards.

This is clip is exactly what's wrong with Sorc right now. I am basically speed capped with Streak, yet I'm still taking a lot of damage from ranged attacks + whatever DoTs they put on me. I was completely drained of resources despite having 1.5k regen on both stats, Essence Thief, and Dark Deal sustain. Even with 10 seconds of breathing room, I couldn't get myself up either because Sorc has practically no burst heal or defensive HoTs. The only way for me to reliably heal is by being offensive, which means I had to turn back and fight the people I ran away from. I mean what? I think @Turtle_Bot experienced something similar a month ago on their Sorc.

If I was a brawler NB, I would have no problem kiting that group and healing through their damage.

You didn't use 2 streaks to get away, you streaked once INTO the pet sorc and incoming DK from the right, and then one more to get away. And if you look carefully at 12 sec you see the red aura of vampire mist form in the ground floor doorway from the guy chasing you. Read the last sentence again in my first bit...

It didn’t matter if I Streaked right into the pet Sorc. My last Streak teleported me away from him and I sprinted with clear distance from him, yet still took damage from his lightning attack.

If I was on a NB, I would have cloaked around the corner at the beginning of the video and saved all my mag. This is where you failed to understand my point.

Zastrix

I don't play PvP because the community is so bad so I'm PvE exlusive. Having read through most of the comments here (again, from an exclusively PvE-only perspective) the whole thread basically just screams copium and skill issue from the Sorc's side.

Edit: especially the last comment. It doesn't matter that I made a dumb move went straight into people, I would've 100% GUARANTEED survived if I were a nightblade because reasons. Yeah, you wouldn't have, just a lot of copium.

Edit v2: 420th comment. Nice.

Bushido2513

ShadowProc wrote: »

Agree to disagree. No valid points made to nerf. Motion is denied.

Skill is getting a buff. Hopefully you all made enough noise to have them rethink that. But not even close to justifying a nerf.

Valid or no, ZOS will just do what they do. I don't really care if they rethink it or buff nb to the moon, it's their game and I am not currently giving them any money so I can only take what they give me. I figure they will just read this and make their own choices as they always do.

Also look out for that appeal!

Bushido2513

Ringeren wrote: »

I pvp with NB and Sorc (and others including vampire), and if you think cloak is as good as blink for escaping, you haven't played it yourself. I'm sure half my cloaks end early from debuffs i got on or enemy just uses an aoe when I vanish to hit me out of it or they have flare slotted. While two blinks in a row is 95% chance of escape unless you have other vampire/sorc after you.

So I have played cloak and played against cloak users. I've come to learn that the escape depends on build and playstyle. Generally if you have enough movement speed and understand how to move around the enemy or reveal areas then you have a better chance of escaping. It also depends on which reveal is being used and how good the opponent is with using reveals.

I'd sayd that against an equally skilled opponent it's very useful but yeah it's like streak in that it can be done in a way where you don't really get much benefit. Some people a streak stun is enough, some need a streak stun roll dodge, some need a double streak and of course don't hit stairs or a wall.

My point being is that neither skill is really an automatic anything depending on how your skill level matches the opponent. I mean some nb just use the cloak as a feint and want you to reveal them just so that they can be buffed and trigger an attack. Neither skill is a one button solution depending on your opponent.

Like yeah I can doulbe streak but if they know the game and have a good build they can still catch me or deal with me in other ways to nullify it.

Ringeren wrote: »

You didn't use 2 streaks to get away, you streaked once INTO the pet sorc and incoming DK from the right, and then one more to get away. And if you look carefully at 12 sec you see the red aura of vampire mist form in the ground floor doorway from the guy chasing you. Read the last sentence again in my first bit...

Well I don't understand exactly what you're saying but would like to. Though my issue is that when the video starts you see an Auqa named character right on top of Static, Static streaks a few times, goes up a tower and Auqa is right on his tail followed by the rest of the group directly after.

There's all kinds of commentary on how this could have been played different however I've been in similar situations and I can just say from experience that players can definitely catch you after back to back streaks currently.

I only recall so much because afterwards I'm getting bagged and I'm thinking man aren't I supposed to be good at escaping?