Destruction Staff Feedback

katorga

The firestaff change will be OP in PVP which will get heavily nerfed.

End result, destro staff becomes completely useless, and only Wardens and Arcanists will use them.

Tyrant_Tim

Huge win here! Thanks @ZOS_GinaBruno!

techprince

Weapons
Destruction Staff
Ancient Knowledge: Based on player feedback, we’ve re-adjusted the bonuses granted for these staff types to fit more into their theme, while moving to be more generic amplifications so more builds can easily derive meaningful power without intense specialization.
Inferno Staves now increase your damage done with Damage over Time effects by 6/12%, rather than the initial hit of status effects by 250/500.
Lightning Staves now increase your damage done with direct damage and channeled effects by 6/12%, rather than Damage over Time and channeled effects by 6/12%

Fire Staves still have low use cases as they will not buff single-target attacks so no buffs to spammable and executes. At least lightning will be used somewhere due to direct damage.

acastanza_ESO

techprince wrote: »

Weapons
Destruction Staff
Ancient Knowledge: Based on player feedback, we’ve re-adjusted the bonuses granted for these staff types to fit more into their theme, while moving to be more generic amplifications so more builds can easily derive meaningful power without intense specialization.
Inferno Staves now increase your damage done with Damage over Time effects by 6/12%, rather than the initial hit of status effects by 250/500.
Lightning Staves now increase your damage done with direct damage and channeled effects by 6/12%, rather than Damage over Time and channeled effects by 6/12%

Fire Staves still have low use cases as they will not buff single-target attacks so no buffs to spammable and executes. At least lightning will be used somewhere due to direct damage.

There are extremely powerful DOT builds in PVP right now that this will be a significant buff for. I think it will even possibly be too strong.

That said in general this round of changes is a significant step in the right direction. Actually pleased with ZOS listening to feedback there this time.

Jazraena

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

Huge win here! Thanks @ZOS_GinaBruno!

When I suggested that buffing DoT damage was useless since they make up far less of your damage than direct damage attack (like, say, your spammable) I was told that ZOS could buff them more than just 12%.

Cue ZOS.

STOP MAKING HALF-ASSED CHANGES.

It's not rocket science that these numbers don't check out and you still make the vast majority of mages change their weapons. I see no reason to use an inferno staff aside liking fire even now.

techprince

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

techprince wrote: »

Weapons
Destruction Staff
Ancient Knowledge: Based on player feedback, we’ve re-adjusted the bonuses granted for these staff types to fit more into their theme, while moving to be more generic amplifications so more builds can easily derive meaningful power without intense specialization.
Inferno Staves now increase your damage done with Damage over Time effects by 6/12%, rather than the initial hit of status effects by 250/500.
Lightning Staves now increase your damage done with direct damage and channeled effects by 6/12%, rather than Damage over Time and channeled effects by 6/12%

Fire Staves still have low use cases as they will not buff single-target attacks so no buffs to spammable and executes. At least lightning will be used somewhere due to direct damage.

There are extremely powerful DOT builds in PVP right now that this will be a significant buff for. I think it will even possibly be too strong.

That said in general this round of changes is a significant step in the right direction. Actually pleased with ZOS listening to feedback there this time.

That's a separate issue of PvP damage and is highly unbalanced as well. The majority runs Stinging Slashes + Wrath of Elements + Draugrkin/Dragons Appetite + Maarselok. Whenever anything becomes meta in PvP, it's bound to get nerfed. In PvE, it doesn't matter as much.

So Fire Staves will still be a niche.

KlauthWarthog

I am not sure if the actual numbers check out, but the flavor is on point, and there is sufficient distinction to make me pause instead of just slapping either in.

Jazraena

KlauthWarthog wrote: »

I am not sure if the actual numbers check out, but the flavor is on point, and there is sufficient distinction to make me pause instead of just slapping either in.

I'm not even thinking about it.

12% Direct Damage (and channelled!) is better than 12% DoT damage on every single DPS build.

lQrukl

Jazraena wrote: »

KlauthWarthog wrote: »

I am not sure if the actual numbers check out, but the flavor is on point, and there is sufficient distinction to make me pause instead of just slapping either in.

I'm not even thinking about it.

12% Direct Damage (and channelled!) is better than 12% DoT damage on every single DPS build.

Except Arcanist
But anyway, I made separate thread:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/639309/lightining-staff-is-too-strong-now
cause it's really a huge gap now

xXCJsniperXx7

techprince wrote: »

Weapons
Destruction Staff
Ancient Knowledge: Based on player feedback, we’ve re-adjusted the bonuses granted for these staff types to fit more into their theme, while moving to be more generic amplifications so more builds can easily derive meaningful power without intense specialization.
Inferno Staves now increase your damage done with Damage over Time effects by 6/12%, rather than the initial hit of status effects by 250/500.
Lightning Staves now increase your damage done with direct damage and channeled effects by 6/12%, rather than Damage over Time and channeled effects by 6/12%

Fire Staves still have low use cases as they will not buff single-target attacks. At least lightning will be used somewhere due to direct damage.

12% dot buff is a much better bonus than the current single target damage. Making both single target and aoe dots stronger is much more versatile. If your a magdk for example next to all of your skills are better with this change now. Comparing to live, where only Molten Whip, Burning Embers, Flames of Oblivion, and Unrelenting Grip are buffed, this change will make the majority of skills better instead. This change includes Burning Embers, Engulfing Flames, Eruption, Unstable Wall, Destructive Reach, Barbed Trap, Standard of Might, etc. This is just picturing a magdk to. All classes will benefit from this change as flame staffs capabilities are increased.

Tyrant_Tim

Jazraena wrote: »

KlauthWarthog wrote: »

I am not sure if the actual numbers check out, but the flavor is on point, and there is sufficient distinction to make me pause instead of just slapping either in.

I'm not even thinking about it.

12% Direct Damage (and channelled!) is better than 12% DoT damage on every single DPS build.

You’re thinking too linear, what this accomplishes in PvE, is to give ranged builds a magic backbar weapon, while giving Lightning a chance to shine as a front bar finally.

Generally, you’re not using a spammable on your backbar, and on most classes the only damage present on that bar are DoTs.

Could that number be tuned up a little higher? Sure!

But as it is right now, the overall balance of things is in a much better place than it was going into Update 39 PTS week one.

Jazraena

lQrukl wrote: »

Jazraena wrote: »

KlauthWarthog wrote: »

I am not sure if the actual numbers check out, but the flavor is on point, and there is sufficient distinction to make me pause instead of just slapping either in.

I'm not even thinking about it.

12% Direct Damage (and channelled!) is better than 12% DoT damage on every single DPS build.

Except Arcanist
But anyway, I made separate thread:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/639309/lightining-staff-is-too-strong-now
cause it's really a huge gap now

Especially Arcanist.

Lightning gives Direct Damage and Channelled. AKA your spammable and the beam.

Jazraena

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

Jazraena wrote: »

KlauthWarthog wrote: »

I am not sure if the actual numbers check out, but the flavor is on point, and there is sufficient distinction to make me pause instead of just slapping either in.

I'm not even thinking about it.

12% Direct Damage (and channelled!) is better than 12% DoT damage on every single DPS build.

You’re thinking too linear, what this accomplishes in PvE, is to give ranged builds a magic backbar weapon, while giving Lightning a chance to shine as a front bar finally.

Generally, you’re not using a spammable on your backbar, and on most classes the only damage present on that bar are DoTs.

Could that number be tuned up a little higher? Sure!

But as it is right now, the overall balance of things is in a much better place than it was going into Update 39 PTS week one.

I do not consider inferno staves to be relegated to backbar weapons anything even resembling good design.

JerBearESO

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

techprince wrote: »

Weapons
Destruction Staff
Ancient Knowledge: Based on player feedback, we’ve re-adjusted the bonuses granted for these staff types to fit more into their theme, while moving to be more generic amplifications so more builds can easily derive meaningful power without intense specialization.
Inferno Staves now increase your damage done with Damage over Time effects by 6/12%, rather than the initial hit of status effects by 250/500.
Lightning Staves now increase your damage done with direct damage and channeled effects by 6/12%, rather than Damage over Time and channeled effects by 6/12%

Fire Staves still have low use cases as they will not buff single-target attacks so no buffs to spammable and executes. At least lightning will be used somewhere due to direct damage.

There are extremely powerful DOT builds in PVP right now that this will be a significant buff for. I think it will even possibly be too strong.

That said in general this round of changes is a significant step in the right direction. Actually pleased with ZOS listening to feedback there this time.

I have my ranged stormweavers cavort Magicka focused stamina spammable high DoT pressure NB build ready and waiting this is what I love. When I get to create something that is hard to even describe, but works, hahahaha

lQrukl

Jazraena wrote: »

lQrukl wrote: »

Jazraena wrote: »

KlauthWarthog wrote: »

I am not sure if the actual numbers check out, but the flavor is on point, and there is sufficient distinction to make me pause instead of just slapping either in.

I'm not even thinking about it.

12% Direct Damage (and channelled!) is better than 12% DoT damage on every single DPS build.

Except Arcanist
But anyway, I made separate thread:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/639309/lightining-staff-is-too-strong-now
cause it's really a huge gap now

Especially Arcanist.

Lightning gives Direct Damage and Channelled. AKA your spammable and the beam.

Beam is DoT
>90% of Acranist's damage is DoT

Jazraena

lQrukl wrote: »

Jazraena wrote: »

lQrukl wrote: »

Jazraena wrote: »

KlauthWarthog wrote: »

I am not sure if the actual numbers check out, but the flavor is on point, and there is sufficient distinction to make me pause instead of just slapping either in.

I'm not even thinking about it.

12% Direct Damage (and channelled!) is better than 12% DoT damage on every single DPS build.

Except Arcanist
But anyway, I made separate thread:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/639309/lightining-staff-is-too-strong-now
cause it's really a huge gap now

Especially Arcanist.

Lightning gives Direct Damage and Channelled. AKA your spammable and the beam.

Beam is DoT
>90% of Acranist's damage is DoT

You're playing a different arcanist than I am then, because it's literally a channelled attack.

Syiccal

lQrukl wrote: »

Jazraena wrote: »

lQrukl wrote: »

Jazraena wrote: »

KlauthWarthog wrote: »

I am not sure if the actual numbers check out, but the flavor is on point, and there is sufficient distinction to make me pause instead of just slapping either in.

I'm not even thinking about it.

12% Direct Damage (and channelled!) is better than 12% DoT damage on every single DPS build.

Except Arcanist
But anyway, I made separate thread:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/639309/lightining-staff-is-too-strong-now
cause it's really a huge gap now

Especially Arcanist.

Lightning gives Direct Damage and Channelled. AKA your spammable and the beam.

Beam is DoT
>90% of Acranist's damage is DoT

Beam is classed as a channeled attack, a dot is like rending slashes

FriedEggSandwich

.

Jazraena wrote: »

lQrukl wrote: »

Jazraena wrote: »

lQrukl wrote: »

Jazraena wrote: »

KlauthWarthog wrote: »

I am not sure if the actual numbers check out, but the flavor is on point, and there is sufficient distinction to make me pause instead of just slapping either in.

I'm not even thinking about it.

12% Direct Damage (and channelled!) is better than 12% DoT damage on every single DPS build.

Except Arcanist
But anyway, I made separate thread:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/639309/lightining-staff-is-too-strong-now
cause it's really a huge gap now

Especially Arcanist.

Lightning gives Direct Damage and Channelled. AKA your spammable and the beam.

Beam is DoT
>90% of Acranist's damage is DoT

You're playing a different arcanist than I am then, because it's literally a channelled attack.

I think they meant that it was a channelled dot, rather than channelled direct damage. This would mean the arcanist beam would benefit from either fire or shock staff, and not double buffed by just one.

Chilly-McFreeze

I was under the impression that channeled attacks count as dots. Since they arent explicitly excluded from flame staves: are channels buffed by both staves?

katorga

Jazraena wrote: »

lQrukl wrote: »

Jazraena wrote: »

lQrukl wrote: »

Jazraena wrote: »

KlauthWarthog wrote: »

I am not sure if the actual numbers check out, but the flavor is on point, and there is sufficient distinction to make me pause instead of just slapping either in.

I'm not even thinking about it.

12% Direct Damage (and channelled!) is better than 12% DoT damage on every single DPS build.

Except Arcanist
But anyway, I made separate thread:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/639309/lightining-staff-is-too-strong-now
cause it's really a huge gap now

Especially Arcanist.

Lightning gives Direct Damage and Channelled. AKA your spammable and the beam.

Beam is DoT
>90% of Acranist's damage is DoT

You're playing a different arcanist than I am then, because it's literally a channelled attack.

Fatecarver is DOT damage, and it is a channeled attack.

Arcanist wins this one. Lightning staff buffs their spammables and their beams.

Syiccal

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

I was under the impression that channeled attacks count as dots. Since they arent explicitly excluded from flame staves: are channels buffed by both staves?

No, try it wit thurmaturge or even valkyn Skoria which procs off dots, skills like jabs or beam will not benifit or proc the set

Cast_El

Thank you for listening 👍

Syiccal

Yea I mean if I can stoff using dw maces and run a lightning without nerfing myself I'm all up for it, very bored of running dw but the drop in dmg on live makes it so staffs are just not worth it.

acastanza_ESO

katorga wrote: »

Jazraena wrote: »

lQrukl wrote: »

Jazraena wrote: »

lQrukl wrote: »

Jazraena wrote: »

KlauthWarthog wrote: »

I am not sure if the actual numbers check out, but the flavor is on point, and there is sufficient distinction to make me pause instead of just slapping either in.

I'm not even thinking about it.

12% Direct Damage (and channelled!) is better than 12% DoT damage on every single DPS build.

Except Arcanist
But anyway, I made separate thread:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/639309/lightining-staff-is-too-strong-now
cause it's really a huge gap now

Especially Arcanist.

Lightning gives Direct Damage and Channelled. AKA your spammable and the beam.

Beam is DoT
>90% of Acranist's damage is DoT

You're playing a different arcanist than I am then, because it's literally a channelled attack.

Fatecarver is DOT damage, and it is a channeled attack.

Arcanist wins this one. Lightning staff buffs their spammables and their beams.

This is actually insane. ARCANIST NEEDED NERFS NOT MASSIVE BUFFS. What in the hell ZOS?!?!

Overamera

xXCJsniperXx7 wrote: »

techprince wrote: »

Weapons
Destruction Staff
Ancient Knowledge: Based on player feedback, we’ve re-adjusted the bonuses granted for these staff types to fit more into their theme, while moving to be more generic amplifications so more builds can easily derive meaningful power without intense specialization.
Inferno Staves now increase your damage done with Damage over Time effects by 6/12%, rather than the initial hit of status effects by 250/500.
Lightning Staves now increase your damage done with direct damage and channeled effects by 6/12%, rather than Damage over Time and channeled effects by 6/12%

Fire Staves still have low use cases as they will not buff single-target attacks. At least lightning will be used somewhere due to direct damage.

12% dot buff is a much better bonus than the current single target damage. Making both single target and aoe dots stronger is much more versatile. If your a magdk for example next to all of your skills are better with this change now. Comparing to live, where only Molten Whip, Burning Embers, Flames of Oblivion, and Unrelenting Grip are buffed, this change will make the majority of skills better instead. This change includes Burning Embers, Engulfing Flames, Eruption, Unstable Wall, Destructive Reach, Barbed Trap, Standard of Might, etc. This is just picturing a magdk to. All classes will benefit from this change as flame staffs capabilities are increased.

So what will happen with my magsorc now that pretty much everything is singe target?

lQrukl

Syiccal wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

I was under the impression that channeled attacks count as dots. Since they arent explicitly excluded from flame staves: are channels buffed by both staves?

No, try it wit thurmaturge or even valkyn Skoria which procs off dots, skills like jabs or beam will not benifit or proc the set

Its over-time damage type, channeled ability

jaws343

Overamera wrote: »

xXCJsniperXx7 wrote: »

techprince wrote: »

Weapons
Destruction Staff
Ancient Knowledge: Based on player feedback, we’ve re-adjusted the bonuses granted for these staff types to fit more into their theme, while moving to be more generic amplifications so more builds can easily derive meaningful power without intense specialization.
Inferno Staves now increase your damage done with Damage over Time effects by 6/12%, rather than the initial hit of status effects by 250/500.
Lightning Staves now increase your damage done with direct damage and channeled effects by 6/12%, rather than Damage over Time and channeled effects by 6/12%

Fire Staves still have low use cases as they will not buff single-target attacks. At least lightning will be used somewhere due to direct damage.

12% dot buff is a much better bonus than the current single target damage. Making both single target and aoe dots stronger is much more versatile. If your a magdk for example next to all of your skills are better with this change now. Comparing to live, where only Molten Whip, Burning Embers, Flames of Oblivion, and Unrelenting Grip are buffed, this change will make the majority of skills better instead. This change includes Burning Embers, Engulfing Flames, Eruption, Unstable Wall, Destructive Reach, Barbed Trap, Standard of Might, etc. This is just picturing a magdk to. All classes will benefit from this change as flame staffs capabilities are increased.

So what will happen with my magsorc now that pretty much everything is singe target?

If you want to run staves, lightning will likely be BiS for a heavy spammable, single target setup. Especially for PVP.

For PVE, lightning might still be best. Basically, you will see a slight damage increase depending on the build you currently run given that inferno doesn't buff AOE, only single target on live.

So, for example, in my solo setup damage skills:

FB: Meteor, Crushing, Curse, Frag
BB: Destro Ult, WoE, LL, Boundless

On Live: Fire stave only buffs Crushing, Curse, and Frag, all by 10%
On PTS: Lightning stave buffs Crushing, Curse, and Frag, all by 12%

Neither of the AOEs are buffed in either stave type. So, in all, a slight buff to my Sorc setup swapping to lightning stave.
You could swap to Fire stave and that should buff WoE, LL, Boundless, but I think that would be less damage in a parse than buffing the single target damage, for the same reasons builds would run inferno on live right now over lightning.

Syiccal

lQrukl wrote: »

Syiccal wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

I was under the impression that channeled attacks count as dots. Since they arent explicitly excluded from flame staves: are channels buffed by both staves?

No, try it wit thurmaturge or even valkyn Skoria which procs off dots, skills like jabs or beam will not benifit or proc the set

Fair enough, jabs is a channeled and definitely is not buffed by thurmaturge and definitely doesn't proc skoria any more, so I assumed fate carver followed the same rules..I shouldn't assume anything when comes to Zos I guess.

techprince

xXCJsniperXx7 wrote: »

techprince wrote: »

Weapons
Destruction Staff
Ancient Knowledge: Based on player feedback, we’ve re-adjusted the bonuses granted for these staff types to fit more into their theme, while moving to be more generic amplifications so more builds can easily derive meaningful power without intense specialization.
Inferno Staves now increase your damage done with Damage over Time effects by 6/12%, rather than the initial hit of status effects by 250/500.
Lightning Staves now increase your damage done with direct damage and channeled effects by 6/12%, rather than Damage over Time and channeled effects by 6/12%

Fire Staves still have low use cases as they will not buff single-target attacks. At least lightning will be used somewhere due to direct damage.

12% dot buff is a much better bonus than the current single target damage. Making both single target and aoe dots stronger is much more versatile. If your a magdk for example next to all of your skills are better with this change now. Comparing to live, where only Molten Whip, Burning Embers, Flames of Oblivion, and Unrelenting Grip are buffed, this change will make the majority of skills better instead. This change includes Burning Embers, Engulfing Flames, Eruption, Unstable Wall, Destructive Reach, Barbed Trap, Standard of Might, etc. This is just picturing a magdk to. All classes will benefit from this change as flame staffs capabilities are increased.

Dot classes are DK, Warden and Necro. Wardens wont be using it as Ice Staves buffs all damage by 12%. The remaining 2 will see some use of it but thats about it. Every other class directly benefits from Lightning Staff. In PvP, front-barring vateshran flame staff with backbar Master DW will be extremely out of balance. You will see this setup everywhere.

Chilly-McFreeze

jaws343 wrote: »

Neither of the AOEs are buffed in either stave type.

Why it isnt? (In pts) patch notes doesnt diffentiate between st and aoe. Only between direct and dot. So at least the direct part of meteor should be buffed by lightning