Crux duration in Patch v9.0.6

Jammy420

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

Jammy420 wrote: »

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

Ecgberht_confused wrote: »

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

Ecgberht_confused wrote: »

Crux ICONS expiring after 30 seconds would've been sensible (though a toggle would be much better), but crux themselves expiring is an unnecessary nerf to the class. The wording of the patch notes suggests this is not intended. Can @ZOS_GinaBruno please confirm which was the intended behaviour?

It is an extremely, extremely, tiny nerf to a class that actually is significantly overperforming.
Between the cruxweaver armor and weapon buff getting three crux in the first seconds of a fight is absolutely trivial.
Having the icons disappear but the buff persist would cause massive issues for PVP.
This is a good change all around, although I would support extending the duration to match relentless focus.

On what basis is the class "significantly overperforming"? The class is OK in pve and underperforming in pvp. Yes it's a tiny nerf but it's completely unnecessary. It will also cause dungeon runs with pugs to be even more rushed, since you lose something by being out of combat for 30 seconds. More importantly, the wording of the patch notes is misleading, if the nerf is in fact intended.

You're kidding right? In any trial with any cleave at all Arcanist is top of the charts by a massive margin. And in PVP it is absurdly tanky with basically no effort to the point where people are running what would normally be pve traited sets in their builds and still more survivable than some other classes. You also have literally troll tanks that can deal massive damage thanks to crux buffs. If you don't think it's overperforming then I can only assume you haven't played with anyone on an arcanist outside maybe overworld content.

: laughs in dk :

this class can essentially run 0 penetration, and 0 damage, and just use their I Win button ulti while being absurdly tanky and having infinite . Also, arcanist has like what 2 actual healing skills , the rest is all shields, sithis forbid we have a class that focuses on shields instead of healing making it unique. Why do people want the class to work EXACTLY like other classes, when people have been begging for something unique for years?

The only real problem I have with the current state of arcanist is it's massive cleave.
"sithis forbid we have a class that focuses on shields instead of healing making it unique"
That was supposed to be Sorc. I know the Dev's have forgotten that Sorc exists, but really? It also has 10x the heals that sorc has and without the limitations.
No one is asking for the class to work "exactly" like other classes. It just needs to be dialed back a little bit (nerfs on the order of this tiny, tiny, crux nerf nothing more severe) and other classes like Sorc need some adjustments to bring them up to the same level.

Until DK is nerfed, I simply cannot abide the nerf to arcanist. Sure, we all know that they dropped the ball with sorc shields, but that ship has sailed, and sorc has way better heals, lol. It has a permanent, cheap , nearly h2f bird running with them all the time.

thedoodle_90

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

Jammy420 wrote: »

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

Ecgberht_confused wrote: »

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

Ecgberht_confused wrote: »

Crux ICONS expiring after 30 seconds would've been sensible (though a toggle would be much better), but crux themselves expiring is an unnecessary nerf to the class. The wording of the patch notes suggests this is not intended. Can @ZOS_GinaBruno please confirm which was the intended behaviour?

It is an extremely, extremely, tiny nerf to a class that actually is significantly overperforming.
Between the cruxweaver armor and weapon buff getting three crux in the first seconds of a fight is absolutely trivial.
Having the icons disappear but the buff persist would cause massive issues for PVP.
This is a good change all around, although I would support extending the duration to match relentless focus.

On what basis is the class "significantly overperforming"? The class is OK in pve and underperforming in pvp. Yes it's a tiny nerf but it's completely unnecessary. It will also cause dungeon runs with pugs to be even more rushed, since you lose something by being out of combat for 30 seconds. More importantly, the wording of the patch notes is misleading, if the nerf is in fact intended.

You're kidding right? In any trial with any cleave at all Arcanist is top of the charts by a massive margin. And in PVP it is absurdly tanky with basically no effort to the point where people are running what would normally be pve traited sets in their builds and still more survivable than some other classes. You also have literally troll tanks that can deal massive damage thanks to crux buffs. If you don't think it's overperforming then I can only assume you haven't played with anyone on an arcanist outside maybe overworld content.

: laughs in dk :

this class can essentially run 0 penetration, and 0 damage, and just use their I Win button ulti while being absurdly tanky and having infinite . Also, arcanist has like what 2 actual healing skills , the rest is all shields, sithis forbid we have a class that focuses on shields instead of healing making it unique. Why do people want the class to work EXACTLY like other classes, when people have been begging for something unique for years?

The only real problem I have with the current state of arcanist is it's massive cleave.
"sithis forbid we have a class that focuses on shields instead of healing making it unique"
That was supposed to be Sorc. I know the Dev's have forgotten that Sorc exists, but really? It also has 10x the heals that sorc has and without the limitations.
No one is asking for the class to work "exactly" like other classes. It just needs to be dialed back a little bit (nerfs on the order of this tiny, tiny, crux nerf nothing more severe) and other classes like Sorc need some adjustments to bring them up to the same level.

Have you actually played Arcanist? The heals sustain is awful if not using full class skills. And Sorc healing has a huge beenfit of not having to face the target to heal them and insane sustain. Weird to point out all of arcanist strenght none of its weaknesses and ignore other classes strengths.

Ecgberht_confused

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

Ecgberht_confused wrote: »

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

Ecgberht_confused wrote: »

Crux ICONS expiring after 30 seconds would've been sensible (though a toggle would be much better), but crux themselves expiring is an unnecessary nerf to the class. The wording of the patch notes suggests this is not intended. Can @ZOS_GinaBruno please confirm which was the intended behaviour?

It is an extremely, extremely, tiny nerf to a class that actually is significantly overperforming.
Between the cruxweaver armor and weapon buff getting three crux in the first seconds of a fight is absolutely trivial.
Having the icons disappear but the buff persist would cause massive issues for PVP.
This is a good change all around, although I would support extending the duration to match relentless focus.

On what basis is the class "significantly overperforming"? The class is OK in pve and underperforming in pvp. Yes it's a tiny nerf but it's completely unnecessary. It will also cause dungeon runs with pugs to be even more rushed, since you lose something by being out of combat for 30 seconds. More importantly, the wording of the patch notes is misleading, if the nerf is in fact intended.

You're kidding right? In any trial with any cleave at all Arcanist is top of the charts by a massive margin. And in PVP it is absurdly tanky with basically no effort to the point where people are running what would normally be pve traited sets in their builds and still more survivable than some other classes (not warden or DK obviously, but absolutely more than Sorc). You also have literally troll tanks that can deal massive damage thanks to crux buffs. If you don't think it's overperforming then I can only assume you haven't played with anyone on an arcanist outside maybe overworld content.

No you don't need to assume. I played overland, vet dungeons, nymics, battlegrounds and gray host with and against arcanist. It's incredibly meh in pvp. Yes people are running pve traits in pvp (including myself) just to be able to kill things with it. It's hard. My magsorc main is way more effective in pvp to the point where I'm close to stop trying to make arcanist work in pvp. Also you can't just compare its survivability to sorc (which is known to have rubbish survivability) without comparing its kill potential (of which arcanist is really lacking). This is a really strange comparison.

Yes it's got a situational cleave advantage in pve but that's not how anyone measures classes in pve. Single target is key. Also the class struggles with mechanics as any dodging, blocking, etc come at the expense of cutting your beam short. Can't even pick synergies for 50% of the time you're doing damage. So this cleave advantage comes at an expense. The class is good in pve but it's in no way top.

Hamish999

I'd like to say I'm surprised about this change, but I'm not. Typical of ZOS, pander to the vocal minority and use a sledgehammer to crack a walnut.

I echo what others have said, this should have been a personal toggle. I liked having the 3 triangles floating around me all the time.

Ragnarok0130

ZoS give us a way to revert this change for those of us who are not prone to motion sickness. I also want a way to adjust the crux brightness back up to the PTS version where the triangles were as bright as other Arcanist effects. Stop nerfing the game for everyone based on the feedback of an extreme minority; instead give players the client side tools and adjustable settings to adjust things on their side to their liking/tolerance.

Dovahkiin02191973

Started a new game to test the new Arcanist abilities. The first 2 won't even fire off unless you are in combat. The 3rd one that makes circles around you will but it only lasts maybe 2 or 3 seconds. Overall it is an improvement for people with visual and/or other issues with looking at the visuals but I also agree that the players should have a button to press if they want to toggle them on or off. Yes it would be a new feature and take some work but would be well worth it to me and others who have eyes that are not what they used to be and fair to those who don't have vision issues who want the effects the way they were intended to be. A Nerf for everyone is not what we wanted.

acastanza_ESO

Ecgberht_confused wrote: »

Single target is key.

Incorrect on every conceivable level. Cleave has been king for an extremely long time. Arcanist is the king of cleave supplanting DK. Admittdly there are some fights that require block Casting which makes Arcanist (and to a lesser degree magsorc) useless in those fights but they are the exception not the rule.

Also anyone who says the sorc heal is better than the Arcanist heal has clearly never played sorc in PVP. It is the single most unreliable heal in the game.

Panderbander

Sorc heals are garbage but they also have the best mobility in the game. If you're playing a sorc as a facetank you're doing it wrong.

Still, regardless of any of the class abilities or damage or whatever this change is remarkably poorly thought out. I know I harp on about werewolf a lot here but I was legitimately happy with the passives this class offered because the crux was permanent and allowed me to carry that 9% healing buff into werewolf form. This took planning and foresight and altered the way I was playing werewolf in PvP (even if only by a small amount). As it's been changed we've essentially had 1/3 of our passives removed for no good reason.

emilyhyoyeon

I LOOOOOOOOVE not seeing masses of crux everywhere in cities anymore. I would be fine with a toggle for people who still want to see them though.

Sarannah

Personally I dislike the new way crux works... it should NEVER disappear. Only add the 30 second timer in town areas, if you really want this in.

Also, the speed at which the crux moves now is not good looking, one of the orbs floats behind the character too long, and it looks annoying as it appears like it's lagging all the time. Maybe add a crux speed slider to the options for arcanists, so those with health issues can adjust the speed to however they like(maybe for size as well). This visual option should affect them and all arcanists they run into, just for them. But the current speed is not a good look. The original speed felt just right.

I loved the way crux worked, but I'd rather have no crux than how it looks/works now. It doesn't feel like an arcanist anymore.

acastanza_ESO

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

I LOOOOOOOOVE not seeing masses of crux everywhere in cities anymore. I would be fine with a toggle for people who still want to see them though.

It is not just a visual change, you actually loose the crux buff itself after 30 seconds. (This change is actually good IMO, but could maybe be extended to 1 minute)

I do think the new rotation is too slow though, maybe they could find a happy medium.

thedoodle_90

It has ruined arcanist for questing., With RP chats and such you now basically lose everything about the class because they couldn't be bothered to make it a visual toggle. Since you cant generate crux in combat if you pull with a generator it countsa as not being in combat so you now have to cast a spell 4 times for 3 crux. This basically kills any quest mob before you ever get to use your spenders then it repeats. Many of the passives that generate from having crux are pointless now too as you have to spend them or lose them. This is no different than forcing sorcerer to resummon winged twilight after 30seconds of no combat.

BlindingBright

Having played it in content now... yeah, this change is garbage. On my healing setup crux is dropping off mid fight, requiring a rebuff/using a less optimal skill just to rebuild crux.

So it's been nerfed AND it's broken. Cool cool cool.

I am sure the stream team will gloss over this and other major issues since they've all been paid off with sponsored content for the Necrom release.

Luke_Flamesword

This basically kills any quest mob before you ever get to use your spenders then it repeats

If overland mobs melts so quickly, then is that really a such big deal, that you don't have crux buff?

emilyhyoyeon

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

I LOOOOOOOOVE not seeing masses of crux everywhere in cities anymore. I would be fine with a toggle for people who still want to see them though.

It is not just a visual change, you actually loose the crux buff itself after 30 seconds. (This change is actually good IMO, but could maybe be extended to 1 minute)

I do think the new rotation is too slow though, maybe they could find a happy medium.

Assuming the reason for any of this is the health issues people are getting, then if there's a toggle, the crux buff can be added back, since those of us with the problems can toggle the visual off.

As someone with visual issues related to lights, the new rotation speed is so massively better, it's insane. I'd personally rather have a number counter on my skill bar (like grim focus) and toggle the triangles off though, so people who liked the old crux can have it back.

thedoodle_90

Luke_Flamesword wrote: »

This basically kills any quest mob before you ever get to use your spenders then it repeats

If overland mobs melts so quickly, then is that really a such big deal, that you don't have crux buff?

Do you not understand the crux system is a mechanic and not just numbers thing? This broke the mechanic. The class plays like crap now.

Ecgberht_confused

Yes crux spenders are obsolete in questing/overland now. No it doesn't break the class and we won't struggle against zombies and mudcrabs, but it does make it a lot less fun. Zos why was that necessary?

PurpleScroll

The patch is clearly not working as stated. As others mentioned, the buff is disappearing even when you're in combat. A good example as I tested was with dragon fights in Southern Elsweyr, when the dragon flies up so you've got a period of nothing to attack, all your crux eventually drop because there was nothing to use them on even though you're still in combat, so you'd have to use a skill that generates them without having to attack, such as Fleet-Footed Gate and passing through the portal. It isn't just the icons as the patch states, the actual buff disappears and I have to generate them all again even though I was never out of combat.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin Can we please have some info on this?

Panderbander

thedoodle_90 wrote: »

Luke_Flamesword wrote: »

This basically kills any quest mob before you ever get to use your spenders then it repeats

If overland mobs melts so quickly, then is that really a such big deal, that you don't have crux buff?

Do you not understand the crux system is a mechanic and not just numbers thing? This broke the mechanic. The class plays like crap now.

Time reword the abilities that generate crux to say "This ability adds a useless buff to your bar that will disappear before you can use it."

I_killed_Vivec

thedoodle_90 wrote: »

Luke_Flamesword wrote: »

This basically kills any quest mob before you ever get to use your spenders then it repeats

If overland mobs melts so quickly, then is that really a such big deal, that you don't have crux buff?

Do you not understand the crux system is a mechanic and not just numbers thing? This broke the mechanic. The class plays like crap now.

But if you can complete all the overland content then it has hardly trashed questing for the arcanist, which was your original comment.

thedoodle_90

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

thedoodle_90 wrote: »

Luke_Flamesword wrote: »

This basically kills any quest mob before you ever get to use your spenders then it repeats

If overland mobs melts so quickly, then is that really a such big deal, that you don't have crux buff?

Do you not understand the crux system is a mechanic and not just numbers thing? This broke the mechanic. The class plays like crap now.

But if you can complete all the overland content then it has hardly trashed questing for the arcanist, which was your original comment.

No my original comment was talking about how you NEVER get to use the CORE MECHANIC of the class because CRUX disappear before you can use them, and how NONE of your passives work because crux disappear. Nowhere in my statement did I have any mention of being able to clear overworld content or not. My statement has always been about them ruining arcanist GAMEPLAY in overworld content. It is no different than making sorcerer have to summon their pets after every fight.

Kendaric

Ecgberht_confused wrote: »

Yes crux spenders are obsolete in questing/overland now. No it doesn't break the class and we won't struggle against zombies and mudcrabs, but it does make it a lot less fun. Zos why was that necessary?

Trust me, I'd rather have a client side toggle so that you can guys can still have your bright, swirling triangles. But until then it solves at least the motion sickness caused by crux.

It's certainly not an ideal solution or what I had hoped for...

Rageypoo

Just throwing my hat in, yes it's annoying seeing the triangles in town, no I do not agree with a duration limit on a character that is intentionally made weak without consuming these things.

PureEnvelope35

Who wants to bet that we'll get a response in about 3 weeks on this topic stating that it was intentional and the initial patch notes were just incorrectly worded?

Jaraal

Ecgberht_confused wrote: »

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

Ecgberht_confused wrote: »

Crux ICONS expiring after 30 seconds would've been sensible (though a toggle would be much better), but crux themselves expiring is an unnecessary nerf to the class. The wording of the patch notes suggests this is not intended. Can @ZOS_GinaBruno please confirm which was the intended behaviour?

It is an extremely, extremely, tiny nerf to a class that actually is significantly overperforming.
Between the cruxweaver armor and weapon buff getting three crux in the first seconds of a fight is absolutely trivial.
Having the icons disappear but the buff persist would cause massive issues for PVP.
This is a good change all around, although I would support extending the duration to match relentless focus.

On what basis is the class "significantly overperforming"? The class is OK in pve and underperforming in pvp.

I was gonna say.... I haven't made one yet, but Arcanists are dropping like flies in Cyrodiil. People are remarking constantly about how amazing it is that ZOS didn't follow their modus operandi of releasing overpowered new classes to sell content.

Dovahkiin02191973

All they got to do is put a little more time into Programming and they could create a button for the keyboard or a button to be clicked on with the mouse on screen. We that have vision problems just don't want to see the visuals. We did not ask them to Nerf the whole class into the ground but as I said somewhere along the way on PTS testing weeks ago it all starts with awesome oohs and ahs I like that then ZOS comes along and starts intentionally nerfing the item or whatever it is until it is basically useless. and they have now started on the Arcanist.

YandereGirlfriend

Introducing an actual gameplay nerf to "solve" this problem is not a proper solution at all.

prof_doom

Kendaric wrote: »

Ecgberht_confused wrote: »

Yes crux spenders are obsolete in questing/overland now. No it doesn't break the class and we won't struggle against zombies and mudcrabs, but it does make it a lot less fun. Zos why was that necessary?

Trust me, I'd rather have a client side toggle so that you can guys can still have your bright, swirling triangles. But until then it solves at least the motion sickness caused by crux.

It's certainly not an ideal solution or what I had hoped for...

The problem is that they're expiring in 30 seconds after you generated it, not 30 seconds after combat ends.
Tank and healer gameplay is kind of built around the idea of holding onto crux until it's needed, and this is gonna hurt them pretty badly.

mochizx

U35 vibes all over again

dmvab

I really hope that this change was unintentional.
All good that the visual effects go away, but not the actual buff.
Every class works in different ways and arcanists do need to have crux before combat. If crux can't be permanent, we should at least have a way to generate crux outside combat