Crux duration in Patch v9.0.6

BlindingBright

IrishRonD wrote: »

BlindingBright wrote: »

For the people that disliked having them out of combat, you could literally trigger beam and block in the same global cooldown... but because some players refuse to do that or turn down the brightness/contrast on their monitor the solution is to just break the class and playstyle. REALLY?

Arcanist lasted 1 patch before being not only "nerfed" but having its playstyle jankified by ZoS'... and not a single mention of fixing the combat issues of channeled abilities being canceled locking players out of casting till the original channel time ends.

Cool cool cool... nice nice nice.

I disliked them IN combat, I could not see anything. BTW, my brightness and contrast are turned down as much as possible. When the big green dorito takes up about 1/5th of a 5120x1440 screen, it is difficult to see anything, other than the dorito. I didn't ask for a nerf, all I asked for was a way to toggle them off to a bar or something and not "as in your face" as they are now. I enjoyed playing the arcanist as it was.

I agree with you, it should be a toggle(along with a toggle for other peoples pets/class effects, and your own) the solution isn't to modify the way the class plays for /everyone/ to fix a visual issue people /some/ had.

Though the Doritos being visible in combat, especially PVP is needed- but... that doesn't mean people shouldn't be able to turn off the visual if it's a disruption for them. In most combat I still can't tell between 2 and 3 crux, and use an addon for that anyways, they get lost in the rest of the games visual noise for me.

zNeo

Having just completed a Nymic, I notice that Crux also expires *during* combat.

Fancy a poke at this @ZOS_GinaBruno ?

Being at 3x Crux, and using another "builder" aka flail, does reset the timer to 30s. But I thought this "30s out of combat" was just supposed to be for Icons, and, well, outside of combat?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-ufaQ-SK0k

Wolfchild07

I understand the motion sickness issues people are having, but they really can't just use a crux consumer at the end of combat? Crux responsibly.

thedoodle_90

What an awful change... Now Arcanist in open world is just using the spammable because mobs usually die before you can use beam but now even building on one open world mob wont let you use beam on the next. They completely gutted this class in one week.

tomofhyrule

.

zNeo wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

This makes perfect sense, and was one of the main changes that I've seen people say (and have suggested myself!) since the PTS threads.

Crux can't be built outside of combat. If you open a portal and just zip between them or cast your heal, you don't gain Crux. You only start to get it if you do those things while you're already in combat. Also, many sets get nerfed to add a 'you must be in combat' stipulation specifically to avoid pre-buffing.

So... why then did they allow Crux to hang around so long that you could walk into any fight with max Crux? Considering every other form of stacking sets/skills/etc. in the game, it seems that the previous version of Arcanists walking around pre-buffed was the outlier.

"every other form of stacking" ah yes, like those NB bow stacks and DK whip stacks yeah?

Ok, I'll bite.

Crux is really not that similar to NB Bow stacks - Crux will empower your attacks per stack up to three, while NB will only supercharge one single attack (which doesn't hit for any damage otherwise) and will not do anything until the fifth stack. Yes, the stacks hang around, but if you go more than 40s without using it, you need to start by recasting the ability first - you can't just go from nothing with a bow proc. Yes, NBs in trials have pulled accidentally with a bow proc, but that's because 1) they had their 5 stacks, 2) their previous Grim Focus did not yet expire, and 3) they cast Grim Focus to have it up for the fight without realizing it was already active. It also builds from light attacks, so the stacks can't really be built outside of combat.

DK whip is a lot more similar of a concept. It's got three stacks, and every stack individually increases damage. DK Whip stacks also expire after 15 seconds, even if you're still in combat.
...so are you saying that the 30s duration on Crux is still too long compared to DK?

zNeo

DK whip is a lot more similar of a concept. It's got three stacks, and every stack individually increases damage. DK Whip stacks also expire after 15 seconds, even if you're still in combat.
...so are you saying that the 30s duration on Crux is still too long compared to DK?

DK can build their stacks outside of combat lmao the concept of NB building stacks as you put it, is near enough the same as the Crux building on the Arcanist. Difference is, NB retain their stacks - yes, they have to activate an ability, but heyho at least you can do this outside of combat to re-activate your bow! Arcanist now loses everything and have to start fresh.

Soarora

thedoodle_90 wrote: »

What an awful change... Now Arcanist in open world is just using the spammable because mobs usually die before you can use beam but now even building on one open world mob wont let you use beam on the next. They completely gutted this class in one week.

I don’t see how that’s gutting it when it’s still killing things. You’ve described the problem as it does too much damage for Overland which isn’t a problem? I don’t get it, just use beam or a different ability…

I wonder if it’s a bug and they meant it to be only the icons, based on wording. Regardless, I think not keeping stacks would simplify opening rotations since you wouldn’t have to change how much crux to generate in the beginning.

Jaraal

Panderbander wrote: »

In PvP:

"I just finished a tough fight with three crux and I think there may be some gankers around. I should probably hold on to it in case I need to use the heal from my shield when they try to hit me."

Nightblade waits 30 seconds.

Having buffs such as your Major Resolve ability active is a nice deterrent and tool in PvP, and seeing as arcanist can't proc crux outside of combat it has effectively been removed as such.

Zone: "Does anyone have Kill 20 Arcanists they can share?"


Also: "Nerf Ricochet Skull, so third cast buff disappears after 30 seconds!"

Bucky_13

Panderbander wrote: »

In PvP:

"I just finished a tough fight with three crux and I think there may be some gankers around. I should probably hold on to it in case I need to use the heal from my shield when they try to hit me."

Nightblade waits 30 seconds.

Having buffs such as your Major Resolve ability active is a nice deterrent and tool in PvP, and seeing as arcanist can't proc crux outside of combat it has effectively been removed as such.

I wouldn't worry about it too much in PvP since you'll have the "stuck in combat" bug most of the time which should let you keep the crux anyway...

/s

EDIT: IIRC Relentless Focus stays for 1 minute after the least trigger (the other morph has 40 seconds for some reason), I don't think it would be unreasonable to have the Crux last for 1 minute post combat rather than 30 seconds due to this.

Lugaldu

Panderbander wrote: »

Being able to carry crux through to different fights and forms was definitely one of the unique defining traits of this class. It definitely feels like a slightly altered version of molten whip stacks now.

To carry crux through different fights might be senseful, but the problem was: why someone has to carry crux in the bank in Alinor or while crafting? (yeah, I know, Flappies are the same problem in these context...)

Panderbander

Bucky_13 wrote: »

Panderbander wrote: »

In PvP:

"I just finished a tough fight with three crux and I think there may be some gankers around. I should probably hold on to it in case I need to use the heal from my shield when they try to hit me."

Nightblade waits 30 seconds.

Having buffs such as your Major Resolve ability active is a nice deterrent and tool in PvP, and seeing as arcanist can't proc crux outside of combat it has effectively been removed as such.

I wouldn't worry about it too much in PvP since you'll have the "stuck in combat" bug most of the time which should let you keep the crux anyway...

/s

Were it that it worked that way. The stacks fall off 30 seconds after the last generating event regardless of combat status.

zNeo

Lugaldu wrote: »

Panderbander wrote: »

Being able to carry crux through to different fights and forms was definitely one of the unique defining traits of this class. It definitely feels like a slightly altered version of molten whip stacks now.

To carry crux through different fights might be senseful, but the problem was: why someone has to carry crux in the bank in Alinor or while crafting? (yeah, I know, Flappies are the same problem in these context...)

Point? I liked having the crux around me, it tickled the immature manbrain parts of me. ZoS should enable a personal toggle for you to solve your issue with this (and pets at banks etc). Toggle, toggle, toggle. Would solve so many peoples woes about this type of situation.

Lugaldu

zNeo wrote: »

Lugaldu wrote: »

Panderbander wrote: »

Being able to carry crux through to different fights and forms was definitely one of the unique defining traits of this class. It definitely feels like a slightly altered version of molten whip stacks now.

To carry crux through different fights might be senseful, but the problem was: why someone has to carry crux in the bank in Alinor or while crafting? (yeah, I know, Flappies are the same problem in these context...)

Point? I liked having the crux around me, it tickled the immature manbrain parts of me. ZoS should enable a personal toggle for you to solve your issue with this (and pets at banks etc). Toggle, toggle, toggle. Would solve so many peoples woes about this type of situation.

Obviously a toggle is more difficult to implement than to just limit the duration of the visual.

Panderbander

Lugaldu wrote: »

zNeo wrote: »

Lugaldu wrote: »

Panderbander wrote: »

Being able to carry crux through to different fights and forms was definitely one of the unique defining traits of this class. It definitely feels like a slightly altered version of molten whip stacks now.

To carry crux through different fights might be senseful, but the problem was: why someone has to carry crux in the bank in Alinor or while crafting? (yeah, I know, Flappies are the same problem in these context...)

Point? I liked having the crux around me, it tickled the immature manbrain parts of me. ZoS should enable a personal toggle for you to solve your issue with this (and pets at banks etc). Toggle, toggle, toggle. Would solve so many peoples woes about this type of situation.

Obviously a toggle is more difficult to implement than to just limit the duration of the visual.

They're not just limiting the duration of the visual, they're making the crux go away altogether.

Ecgberht_confused

Crux ICONS expiring after 30 seconds would've been sensible (though a toggle would be much better), but crux themselves expiring is an unnecessary nerf to the class. The wording of the patch notes suggests this is not intended. Can @ZOS_GinaBruno please confirm which was the intended behaviour?

thedoodle_90

Soarora wrote: »

thedoodle_90 wrote: »

What an awful change... Now Arcanist in open world is just using the spammable because mobs usually die before you can use beam but now even building on one open world mob wont let you use beam on the next. They completely gutted this class in one week.

I don’t see how that’s gutting it when it’s still killing things. You’ve described the problem as it does too much damage for Overland which isn’t a problem? I don’t get it, just use beam or a different ability…

I wonder if it’s a bug and they meant it to be only the icons, based on wording. Regardless, I think not keeping stacks would simplify opening rotations since you wouldn’t have to change how much crux to generate in the beginning.

You don't see how the core playstyle of the class being gutted isnt a problem? Guess arcanist can just be homogenized like the rest. Why have any unique mechanics now. The nerf is it was FUN to use the beam skill after building Also they made crux bugged as it doesnt even build after casting sometgimes and now falls off in combat.

runa_gate

How in hell can 1/5th of a 5120x1440 screen be taken up by the tiny crux?

thedoodle_90

They nerfed Arcanist healing too with this, no more saving crux up for heal beam when you need it. Gotta use them or get fcked.

Soarora

thedoodle_90 wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

thedoodle_90 wrote: »

What an awful change... Now Arcanist in open world is just using the spammable because mobs usually die before you can use beam but now even building on one open world mob wont let you use beam on the next. They completely gutted this class in one week.

I don’t see how that’s gutting it when it’s still killing things. You’ve described the problem as it does too much damage for Overland which isn’t a problem? I don’t get it, just use beam or a different ability…

I wonder if it’s a bug and they meant it to be only the icons, based on wording. Regardless, I think not keeping stacks would simplify opening rotations since you wouldn’t have to change how much crux to generate in the beginning.

You don't see how the core playstyle of the class being gutted isnt a problem? Guess arcanist can just be homogenized like the rest. Why have any unique mechanics now. The nerf is it was FUN to use the beam skill after building Also they made crux bugged as it doesnt even build after casting sometgimes and now falls off in combat.

I just think you’re overreacting. Crux wasn’t gutted, don’t cry wolf. You still have to use and generate crux in group PvE content, thus I cannot see how crux has been “gutted”. It’s just a 30 second timer that may or may not be bugged.

acastanza_ESO

Ecgberht_confused wrote: »

Crux ICONS expiring after 30 seconds would've been sensible (though a toggle would be much better), but crux themselves expiring is an unnecessary nerf to the class. The wording of the patch notes suggests this is not intended. Can @ZOS_GinaBruno please confirm which was the intended behaviour?

It is an extremely, extremely, tiny nerf to a class that actually is significantly overperforming.
Between the cruxweaver armor and weapon buff getting three crux in the first seconds of a fight is absolutely trivial.
Having the icons disappear but the buff persist would cause massive issues for PVP.
This is a good change all around, although I would support extending the duration to match relentless focus.

thedoodle_90

Soarora wrote: »

thedoodle_90 wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

thedoodle_90 wrote: »

What an awful change... Now Arcanist in open world is just using the spammable because mobs usually die before you can use beam but now even building on one open world mob wont let you use beam on the next. They completely gutted this class in one week.

I don’t see how that’s gutting it when it’s still killing things. You’ve described the problem as it does too much damage for Overland which isn’t a problem? I don’t get it, just use beam or a different ability…

I wonder if it’s a bug and they meant it to be only the icons, based on wording. Regardless, I think not keeping stacks would simplify opening rotations since you wouldn’t have to change how much crux to generate in the beginning.

You don't see how the core playstyle of the class being gutted isnt a problem? Guess arcanist can just be homogenized like the rest. Why have any unique mechanics now. The nerf is it was FUN to use the beam skill after building Also they made crux bugged as it doesnt even build after casting sometgimes and now falls off in combat.

I just think you’re overreacting. Crux wasn’t gutted, don’t cry wolf. You still have to use and generate crux in group PvE content, thus I cannot see how crux has been “gutted”. It’s just a 30 second timer that may or may not be bugged.

This game isnt 100% group PVE tho....This game has pvp which this heavily effects and soloing which this heavily effects....T

Jammy420

zNeo wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

This makes perfect sense, and was one of the main changes that I've seen people say (and have suggested myself!) since the PTS threads.

Crux can't be built outside of combat. If you open a portal and just zip between them or cast your heal, you don't gain Crux. You only start to get it if you do those things while you're already in combat. Also, many sets get nerfed to add a 'you must be in combat' stipulation specifically to avoid pre-buffing.

So... why then did they allow Crux to hang around so long that you could walk into any fight with max Crux? Considering every other form of stacking sets/skills/etc. in the game, it seems that the previous version of Arcanists walking around pre-buffed was the outlier.

"every other form of stacking" ah yes, like those NB bow stacks and DK whip stacks yeah?

ZoS seems allergic to nerfing dk, its ridiculous actually. They nerfed the class we all just bought, but kept the most OP class to date the same.

zNeo

Jammy420 wrote: »

ZoS seems allergic to nerfing dk, its ridiculous actually. They nerfed the class we all just bought, but kept the most OP class to date the same.

Woah there cowboy, I never said nerf DK, I am an avid DK enjoyer. They need to reform things up, instead of keep nerfing things in to the ground for "balancing".

Ecgberht_confused

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

Ecgberht_confused wrote: »

Crux ICONS expiring after 30 seconds would've been sensible (though a toggle would be much better), but crux themselves expiring is an unnecessary nerf to the class. The wording of the patch notes suggests this is not intended. Can @ZOS_GinaBruno please confirm which was the intended behaviour?

It is an extremely, extremely, tiny nerf to a class that actually is significantly overperforming.
Between the cruxweaver armor and weapon buff getting three crux in the first seconds of a fight is absolutely trivial.
Having the icons disappear but the buff persist would cause massive issues for PVP.
This is a good change all around, although I would support extending the duration to match relentless focus.

On what basis is the class "significantly overperforming"? The class is OK in pve and underperforming in pvp. Yes it's a tiny nerf but it's completely unnecessary. It will also cause dungeon runs with pugs to be even more rushed, since you lose something by being out of combat for 30 seconds. More importantly, the wording of the patch notes is misleading, if the nerf is in fact intended.

Jammy420

Wolfchild07 wrote: »

I understand the motion sickness issues people are having, but they really can't just use a crux consumer at the end of combat? Crux responsibly.

They coul use multiple skill to disperse crux, but no, they had to demand zos change it because they cant hit a single button

zNeo wrote: »

Jammy420 wrote: »

ZoS seems allergic to nerfing dk, its ridiculous actually. They nerfed the class we all just bought, but kept the most OP class to date the same.

Woah there cowboy, I never said nerf DK, I am an avid DK enjoyer. They need to reform things up, instead of keep nerfing things in to the ground for "balancing".

Id love that, but we both know without a shadow of a doubt thats not how zos does things.

PureEnvelope35

zNeo wrote: »

Jammy420 wrote: »

ZoS seems allergic to nerfing dk, its ridiculous actually. They nerfed the class we all just bought, but kept the most OP class to date the same.

Woah there cowboy, I never said nerf DK, I am an avid DK enjoyer. They need to reform things up, instead of keep nerfing things in to the ground for "balancing".

Imagine a world where they brought things up to par with classes that do overperform in a given patch... would be so beautiful.

acastanza_ESO

Ecgberht_confused wrote: »

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

Ecgberht_confused wrote: »

Crux ICONS expiring after 30 seconds would've been sensible (though a toggle would be much better), but crux themselves expiring is an unnecessary nerf to the class. The wording of the patch notes suggests this is not intended. Can @ZOS_GinaBruno please confirm which was the intended behaviour?

It is an extremely, extremely, tiny nerf to a class that actually is significantly overperforming.
Between the cruxweaver armor and weapon buff getting three crux in the first seconds of a fight is absolutely trivial.
Having the icons disappear but the buff persist would cause massive issues for PVP.
This is a good change all around, although I would support extending the duration to match relentless focus.

On what basis is the class "significantly overperforming"? The class is OK in pve and underperforming in pvp. Yes it's a tiny nerf but it's completely unnecessary. It will also cause dungeon runs with pugs to be even more rushed, since you lose something by being out of combat for 30 seconds. More importantly, the wording of the patch notes is misleading, if the nerf is in fact intended.

You're kidding right? In any trial with any cleave at all Arcanist is top of the charts by a massive margin. And in PVP it is absurdly tanky with basically no effort to the point where people are running what would normally be pve traited sets in their builds and still more survivable than some other classes (not warden or DK obviously, but absolutely more than Sorc). You also have literally troll tanks that can deal massive damage thanks to crux buffs. If you don't think it's overperforming then I can only assume you haven't played with anyone on an arcanist outside maybe overworld content.

Jammy420

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

Ecgberht_confused wrote: »

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

Ecgberht_confused wrote: »

Crux ICONS expiring after 30 seconds would've been sensible (though a toggle would be much better), but crux themselves expiring is an unnecessary nerf to the class. The wording of the patch notes suggests this is not intended. Can @ZOS_GinaBruno please confirm which was the intended behaviour?

It is an extremely, extremely, tiny nerf to a class that actually is significantly overperforming.
Between the cruxweaver armor and weapon buff getting three crux in the first seconds of a fight is absolutely trivial.
Having the icons disappear but the buff persist would cause massive issues for PVP.
This is a good change all around, although I would support extending the duration to match relentless focus.

On what basis is the class "significantly overperforming"? The class is OK in pve and underperforming in pvp. Yes it's a tiny nerf but it's completely unnecessary. It will also cause dungeon runs with pugs to be even more rushed, since you lose something by being out of combat for 30 seconds. More importantly, the wording of the patch notes is misleading, if the nerf is in fact intended.

You're kidding right? In any trial with any cleave at all Arcanist is top of the charts by a massive margin. And in PVP it is absurdly tanky with basically no effort to the point where people are running what would normally be pve traited sets in their builds and still more survivable than some other classes. You also have literally troll tanks that can deal massive damage thanks to crux buffs. If you don't think it's overperforming then I can only assume you haven't played with anyone on an arcanist outside maybe overworld content.

: laughs in dk :

this class can essentially run 0 penetration, and 0 damage, and just use their I Win button ulti while being absurdly tanky and having infinite ulti generation . Also, arcanist has like what 2 actual healing skills , the rest is all shields, sithis forbid we have a class that focuses on shields instead of healing making it unique. Why do people want the class to work EXACTLY like other classes, when people have been begging for something unique for years?

acastanza_ESO

Jammy420 wrote: »

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

Ecgberht_confused wrote: »

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

Ecgberht_confused wrote: »

Crux ICONS expiring after 30 seconds would've been sensible (though a toggle would be much better), but crux themselves expiring is an unnecessary nerf to the class. The wording of the patch notes suggests this is not intended. Can @ZOS_GinaBruno please confirm which was the intended behaviour?

It is an extremely, extremely, tiny nerf to a class that actually is significantly overperforming.
Between the cruxweaver armor and weapon buff getting three crux in the first seconds of a fight is absolutely trivial.
Having the icons disappear but the buff persist would cause massive issues for PVP.
This is a good change all around, although I would support extending the duration to match relentless focus.

On what basis is the class "significantly overperforming"? The class is OK in pve and underperforming in pvp. Yes it's a tiny nerf but it's completely unnecessary. It will also cause dungeon runs with pugs to be even more rushed, since you lose something by being out of combat for 30 seconds. More importantly, the wording of the patch notes is misleading, if the nerf is in fact intended.

You're kidding right? In any trial with any cleave at all Arcanist is top of the charts by a massive margin. And in PVP it is absurdly tanky with basically no effort to the point where people are running what would normally be pve traited sets in their builds and still more survivable than some other classes. You also have literally troll tanks that can deal massive damage thanks to crux buffs. If you don't think it's overperforming then I can only assume you haven't played with anyone on an arcanist outside maybe overworld content.

: laughs in dk :

this class can essentially run 0 penetration, and 0 damage, and just use their I Win button ulti while being absurdly tanky and having infinite . Also, arcanist has like what 2 actual healing skills , the rest is all shields, sithis forbid we have a class that focuses on shields instead of healing making it unique. Why do people want the class to work EXACTLY like other classes, when people have been begging for something unique for years?

The only real problem I have with the current state of arcanist is it's massive cleave.
"sithis forbid we have a class that focuses on shields instead of healing making it unique"
That was supposed to be Sorc. I know the Dev's have forgotten that Sorc exists, but really? It also has 10x the heals that sorc has and without the limitations.
No one is asking for the class to work "exactly" like other classes. It just needs to be dialed back a little bit (nerfs on the order of this tiny, tiny, crux nerf nothing more severe) and other classes like Sorc need some adjustments to bring them up to the same level.

majulook

Slower pinning OK. The Crux buff just disappears after 30 seconds is just silly. Just remove the spinners after 30 seconds of non combat

Actual fix would be.... Make a Crux count active on the buff bar.