Revert the class burst heal from NB

HidesInPlainSight

AndreNoir wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

DrNukenstein wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

That’s when you use shade

Few understand this….

Genuinely asking, have you ever used that move or read what it does?

You have to place it where you want to go before you need to go there. That has several implications:

-The most straight forward way to use it is to set it up before you go in. This requires the mag sustain or pool to have a shade ready each go when that resource is competing with your heal, cloak, and other important things such as the meta spammable. You have 20 seconds to make use of this shade from the end of your setup to the time you need it.

-You have to be in range to return to it. 28 meters, which is not that far. If you go 40 meters away from your shade when setting up (a common distance to setup from) you have to go 12 meters in the direction of your shade to return to it, otherwise you just place another and look like a clown while you get gibbed

-A really great way to use it on the spot is to drop it, roll, go in one direction, then return right as you reach max range. This is awesome, and feels great to pull off. It's not like an easy thing to do that anyone playing the class for the first time would think of or pull off without trouble.

I mean it's an extremely potent outplay tool for the nightblade, but it is not instant peel at all. That would be streak.

Except streak does not allow you to tank out a 20k bow proc even while having major/ minor resolve along with major/ minor protection buffs.

Cloak and shade both ensure that you don’t take instant burst damage.

Man, discover a roll dodge button already

Or he could use the other form of Streak, but roll dodging or blocking are the best.

Good NBs will animation cancel off a stun into a bow proc, to deny both the audio queue and counterplay to it

Weckless

HidesInPlainSight wrote: »

AndreNoir wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

DrNukenstein wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

That’s when you use shade

Few understand this….

Genuinely asking, have you ever used that move or read what it does?

You have to place it where you want to go before you need to go there. That has several implications:

-The most straight forward way to use it is to set it up before you go in. This requires the mag sustain or pool to have a shade ready each go when that resource is competing with your heal, cloak, and other important things such as the meta spammable. You have 20 seconds to make use of this shade from the end of your setup to the time you need it.

-You have to be in range to return to it. 28 meters, which is not that far. If you go 40 meters away from your shade when setting up (a common distance to setup from) you have to go 12 meters in the direction of your shade to return to it, otherwise you just place another and look like a clown while you get gibbed

-A really great way to use it on the spot is to drop it, roll, go in one direction, then return right as you reach max range. This is awesome, and feels great to pull off. It's not like an easy thing to do that anyone playing the class for the first time would think of or pull off without trouble.

I mean it's an extremely potent outplay tool for the nightblade, but it is not instant peel at all. That would be streak.

Except streak does not allow you to tank out a 20k bow proc even while having major/ minor resolve along with major/ minor protection buffs.

Cloak and shade both ensure that you don’t take instant burst damage.

Man, discover a roll dodge button already

Or he could use the other form of Streak, but roll dodging or blocking are the best.

Good NBs will animation cancel off a stun into a bow proc, to deny both the audio queue and counterplay to it

It doesn't matter how quick you cancel it. Unless you're target is playing with ping from overseas you can't cancel a bow proc fast enough to land it before they can break free and dodge or block it. The only time it lands is against super high ping players like i mentioned or if they just have slow reaction time. Any casual pvper with standard internet speed will be able to block it. You have to get crafty to land it on them. I recommend watching React's nightblade video on youtube he goes over some very good methods of reliably landing it that every NB should start practicing honestly.

blktauna

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Here is how you play NB.

Step 1 : Try hitting targets with incap and bow proc at more or less the same time
Step 2: If the target doesn't die you hit cloak/ shade and try step 1 again

I am not sure if anyone will waste time in watching you rinse and repeat 2 steps

TBH most NB mains can't even execute the 2 simple steps below and it boggles my mind how they manage not to. They overcomplicate their entire class by actually not slotting cloak and creating their own learning curve like an einstein when there is none.

[edited to remove quote]

Boooring, and I've never played like that.
Only 2 NBs I know pay like that.

Why the hell bother then? Go play halo or something, obviously you arent interested in playing the game, just deleting. snooze

Van_Winkle

Please, nerf everything that kills me! And everything, that i can't kill! Why not, actually?)

HidesInPlainSight

Van_Winkle wrote: »

Please, nerf everything that kills me! And everything, that i can't kill! Why not, actually?)

Id rather see other classes brought up to the level of NB and DK.

But you can't deny that NB burst heal is the strongest in the game. I routinely go from 500 hp to full multiple times when 1vX on NB in full Divine gear, and no real defense outside of cloak and movement speed as gankblade.

HidesInPlainSight

Weckless wrote: »

HidesInPlainSight wrote: »

AndreNoir wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

DrNukenstein wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

That’s when you use shade

Few understand this….

Genuinely asking, have you ever used that move or read what it does?

You have to place it where you want to go before you need to go there. That has several implications:

-The most straight forward way to use it is to set it up before you go in. This requires the mag sustain or pool to have a shade ready each go when that resource is competing with your heal, cloak, and other important things such as the meta spammable. You have 20 seconds to make use of this shade from the end of your setup to the time you need it.

-You have to be in range to return to it. 28 meters, which is not that far. If you go 40 meters away from your shade when setting up (a common distance to setup from) you have to go 12 meters in the direction of your shade to return to it, otherwise you just place another and look like a clown while you get gibbed

-A really great way to use it on the spot is to drop it, roll, go in one direction, then return right as you reach max range. This is awesome, and feels great to pull off. It's not like an easy thing to do that anyone playing the class for the first time would think of or pull off without trouble.

I mean it's an extremely potent outplay tool for the nightblade, but it is not instant peel at all. That would be streak.

Except streak does not allow you to tank out a 20k bow proc even while having major/ minor resolve along with major/ minor protection buffs.

Cloak and shade both ensure that you don’t take instant burst damage.

Man, discover a roll dodge button already

Or he could use the other form of Streak, but roll dodging or blocking are the best.

Good NBs will animation cancel off a stun into a bow proc, to deny both the audio queue and counterplay to it

It doesn't matter how quick you cancel it. Unless you're target is playing with ping from overseas you can't cancel a bow proc fast enough to land it before they can break free and dodge or block it. The only time it lands is against super high ping players like i mentioned or if they just have slow reaction time. Any casual pvper with standard internet speed will be able to block it. You have to get crafty to land it on them. I recommend watching React's nightblade video on youtube he goes over some very good methods of reliably landing it that every NB should start practicing honestly.

You can entirely proc bow with no sound and no delay. At high level play I dont react off sound of proc, I predict the bow, pre-dodge it or block. Its the only way to actually avoid a bow proc against really good NBs.

Very similar how avoid a DK hiding petrify animation into invisible whip while hiding corrosive. You have predict it or you are just going to get burst by skill that you can't see.

OBJnoob

I agree with everything you said @stamicka but still I know why NB is being singled out. Call it fair or call it unfair but NB is being targeted for the unparalleled damage it is capable of.

HidesInPlainSight wrote: »

Van_Winkle wrote: »

Please, nerf everything that kills me! And everything, that i can't kill! Why not, actually?)

Id rather see other classes brought up to the level of NB and DK.

But you can't deny that NB burst heal is the strongest in the game. I routinely go from 500 hp to full multiple times when 1vX on NB in full Divine gear, and no real defense outside of cloak and movement speed as gankblade.

I understand that sentiment and even, in general, agree with it.

But specifically in this case I think just nerfing the two classes would be wisest. Every class doesn't need to hit 20k spec bows and every class doesn't need 75% uptime on full pen and ridiculous mitigation.

Weckless

HidesInPlainSight wrote: »

Weckless wrote: »

HidesInPlainSight wrote: »

AndreNoir wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

DrNukenstein wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

That’s when you use shade

Few understand this….

Genuinely asking, have you ever used that move or read what it does?

You have to place it where you want to go before you need to go there. That has several implications:

-The most straight forward way to use it is to set it up before you go in. This requires the mag sustain or pool to have a shade ready each go when that resource is competing with your heal, cloak, and other important things such as the meta spammable. You have 20 seconds to make use of this shade from the end of your setup to the time you need it.

-You have to be in range to return to it. 28 meters, which is not that far. If you go 40 meters away from your shade when setting up (a common distance to setup from) you have to go 12 meters in the direction of your shade to return to it, otherwise you just place another and look like a clown while you get gibbed

-A really great way to use it on the spot is to drop it, roll, go in one direction, then return right as you reach max range. This is awesome, and feels great to pull off. It's not like an easy thing to do that anyone playing the class for the first time would think of or pull off without trouble.

I mean it's an extremely potent outplay tool for the nightblade, but it is not instant peel at all. That would be streak.

Except streak does not allow you to tank out a 20k bow proc even while having major/ minor resolve along with major/ minor protection buffs.

Cloak and shade both ensure that you don’t take instant burst damage.

Man, discover a roll dodge button already

Or he could use the other form of Streak, but roll dodging or blocking are the best.

Good NBs will animation cancel off a stun into a bow proc, to deny both the audio queue and counterplay to it

It doesn't matter how quick you cancel it. Unless you're target is playing with ping from overseas you can't cancel a bow proc fast enough to land it before they can break free and dodge or block it. The only time it lands is against super high ping players like i mentioned or if they just have slow reaction time. Any casual pvper with standard internet speed will be able to block it. You have to get crafty to land it on them. I recommend watching React's nightblade video on youtube he goes over some very good methods of reliably landing it that every NB should start practicing honestly.

You can entirely proc bow with no sound and no delay. At high level play I dont react off sound of proc, I predict the bow, pre-dodge it or block. Its the only way to actually avoid a bow proc against really good NBs.

Very similar how avoid a DK hiding petrify animation into invisible whip while hiding corrosive. You have predict it or you are just going to get burst by skill that you can't see.

I'm sorry i want to assume you don't know better and not that you're lying but no you can not cast a bow that instantly lands. It has a minimum travel time hard coded into the ability and there is no way to get around it. When you shoot that bow there is a guaranteed delay before it lands no matter how close or far you are and there is no way to make it go faster. It doesnt matter if you're playing at the highest level or the lowest.

Weckless

HidesInPlainSight wrote: »

Van_Winkle wrote: »

Please, nerf everything that kills me! And everything, that i can't kill! Why not, actually?)

Id rather see other classes brought up to the level of NB and DK.

But you can't deny that NB burst heal is the strongest in the game. I routinely go from 500 hp to full multiple times when 1vX on NB in full Divine gear, and no real defense outside of cloak and movement speed as gankblade.

Well a gankblade usually has high damage and low health so being able to heal to full isn't very impressive when you have 22k health and 8k weapon damage

Tommy_The_Gun

To be fair... I really don't want to bait or anything, it is just what I think. If, somehow NB heal was reverted to what it was before, then most NBs would adapt & switch to different heal and use that different heal, and before you know it, people would complain about Vigor etc.

If some one is having a problem with dealing with NBs in PvP, then well... it would not solve that problem.

Weckless

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

To be fair... I really don't want to bait or anything, it is just what I think. If, somehow NB heal was reverted to what it was before, then most NBs would adapt & switch to different heal and use that different heal, and before you know it, people would complain about Vigor etc.

If some one is having a problem with dealing with NBs in PvP, then well... it would not solve that problem.

Honestly i was getting along fine with blessing of restoration before so ill adapt either way but they better give us or hots back or compensate somehow

Tonturri

Not speaking to whether it needs a nerf, buff, revert, removal, or w/e-- but I would definitely prefer NB get something unique in that slot, instead of a generic copy-paste of every other class-based single target burst heal that templar, necro, sorc (sorc is kinda unique since it's attached to a pet, but still) have.

if NB absolutely must have a heal there, at least make it something unique and interesting. It's basically a reskin of all the other single target burst heals.

Dojohoda

Don't nerf nightblade healer please.

StaticWave

Fkey wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Fkey wrote: »

As I said before I wonder how much of your calls for nerfs are related to your problems with ping.

Balancing class skills around ping would create a totally different game.

Again, completely missing the point. I’m not asking for their dmg to be nerfed lol..

It’s almost like my title says “Revert Healthy Offering” instead of “Nerf Spectral Bow”.

Not missing the point at all.
I never said you were asking for a damage nerf to nightblades.
A survivability nerf so you can kill easier is still a nerf.

The survivability would be shifted towards better HoTs. Overall survivability doesn’t change, or shouldn’t change significantly, but NBs will have better heals against pressure builds.

Also, Rally is a thing, let’s not pretend it didn’t exist before Healthy Offering buff.

Twig_Garlicshine

StaticWave wrote: »

Fkey wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Fkey wrote: »

As I said before I wonder how much of your calls for nerfs are related to your problems with ping.

Balancing class skills around ping would create a totally different game.

Again, completely missing the point. I’m not asking for their dmg to be nerfed lol..

It’s almost like my title says “Revert Healthy Offering” instead of “Nerf Spectral Bow”.

Not missing the point at all.
I never said you were asking for a damage nerf to nightblades.
A survivability nerf so you can kill easier is still a nerf.

The survivability would be shifted towards better HoTs. Overall survivability doesn’t change, or shouldn’t change significantly, but NBs will have better heals against pressure builds.

Also, Rally is a thing, let’s not pretend it didn’t exist before Healthy Offering buff.

Rally isn't a class skill so you are then also asking for even less choices in build making within the game.

HidesInPlainSight

Weckless wrote: »

HidesInPlainSight wrote: »

Weckless wrote: »

HidesInPlainSight wrote: »

AndreNoir wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

DrNukenstein wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

That’s when you use shade

Few understand this….

Genuinely asking, have you ever used that move or read what it does?

You have to place it where you want to go before you need to go there. That has several implications:

-The most straight forward way to use it is to set it up before you go in. This requires the mag sustain or pool to have a shade ready each go when that resource is competing with your heal, cloak, and other important things such as the meta spammable. You have 20 seconds to make use of this shade from the end of your setup to the time you need it.

-You have to be in range to return to it. 28 meters, which is not that far. If you go 40 meters away from your shade when setting up (a common distance to setup from) you have to go 12 meters in the direction of your shade to return to it, otherwise you just place another and look like a clown while you get gibbed

-A really great way to use it on the spot is to drop it, roll, go in one direction, then return right as you reach max range. This is awesome, and feels great to pull off. It's not like an easy thing to do that anyone playing the class for the first time would think of or pull off without trouble.

I mean it's an extremely potent outplay tool for the nightblade, but it is not instant peel at all. That would be streak.

Except streak does not allow you to tank out a 20k bow proc even while having major/ minor resolve along with major/ minor protection buffs.

Cloak and shade both ensure that you don’t take instant burst damage.

Man, discover a roll dodge button already

Or he could use the other form of Streak, but roll dodging or blocking are the best.

Good NBs will animation cancel off a stun into a bow proc, to deny both the audio queue and counterplay to it

It doesn't matter how quick you cancel it. Unless you're target is playing with ping from overseas you can't cancel a bow proc fast enough to land it before they can break free and dodge or block it. The only time it lands is against super high ping players like i mentioned or if they just have slow reaction time. Any casual pvper with standard internet speed will be able to block it. You have to get crafty to land it on them. I recommend watching React's nightblade video on youtube he goes over some very good methods of reliably landing it that every NB should start practicing honestly.

You can entirely proc bow with no sound and no delay. At high level play I dont react off sound of proc, I predict the bow, pre-dodge it or block. Its the only way to actually avoid a bow proc against really good NBs.

Very similar how avoid a DK hiding petrify animation into invisible whip while hiding corrosive. You have predict it or you are just going to get burst by skill that you can't see.

I'm sorry i want to assume you don't know better and not that you're lying but no you can not cast a bow that instantly lands. It has a minimum travel time hard coded into the ability and there is no way to get around it. When you shoot that bow there is a guaranteed delay before it lands no matter how close or far you are and there is no way to make it go faster. It doesnt matter if you're playing at the highest level or the lowest.

Im not saying it lands instantly, Im saying you can animation cancel so that the bow proc, does not produce a sound queue nor animation for the enemy. If it landed instantly I would not be able to dodge or block it

Weckless

HidesInPlainSight wrote: »

Weckless wrote: »

HidesInPlainSight wrote: »

Weckless wrote: »

HidesInPlainSight wrote: »

AndreNoir wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

DrNukenstein wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

That’s when you use shade

Few understand this….

Genuinely asking, have you ever used that move or read what it does?

You have to place it where you want to go before you need to go there. That has several implications:

-The most straight forward way to use it is to set it up before you go in. This requires the mag sustain or pool to have a shade ready each go when that resource is competing with your heal, cloak, and other important things such as the meta spammable. You have 20 seconds to make use of this shade from the end of your setup to the time you need it.

-You have to be in range to return to it. 28 meters, which is not that far. If you go 40 meters away from your shade when setting up (a common distance to setup from) you have to go 12 meters in the direction of your shade to return to it, otherwise you just place another and look like a clown while you get gibbed

-A really great way to use it on the spot is to drop it, roll, go in one direction, then return right as you reach max range. This is awesome, and feels great to pull off. It's not like an easy thing to do that anyone playing the class for the first time would think of or pull off without trouble.

I mean it's an extremely potent outplay tool for the nightblade, but it is not instant peel at all. That would be streak.

Except streak does not allow you to tank out a 20k bow proc even while having major/ minor resolve along with major/ minor protection buffs.

Cloak and shade both ensure that you don’t take instant burst damage.

Man, discover a roll dodge button already

Or he could use the other form of Streak, but roll dodging or blocking are the best.

Good NBs will animation cancel off a stun into a bow proc, to deny both the audio queue and counterplay to it

It doesn't matter how quick you cancel it. Unless you're target is playing with ping from overseas you can't cancel a bow proc fast enough to land it before they can break free and dodge or block it. The only time it lands is against super high ping players like i mentioned or if they just have slow reaction time. Any casual pvper with standard internet speed will be able to block it. You have to get crafty to land it on them. I recommend watching React's nightblade video on youtube he goes over some very good methods of reliably landing it that every NB should start practicing honestly.

You can entirely proc bow with no sound and no delay. At high level play I dont react off sound of proc, I predict the bow, pre-dodge it or block. Its the only way to actually avoid a bow proc against really good NBs.

Very similar how avoid a DK hiding petrify animation into invisible whip while hiding corrosive. You have predict it or you are just going to get burst by skill that you can't see.

I'm sorry i want to assume you don't know better and not that you're lying but no you can not cast a bow that instantly lands. It has a minimum travel time hard coded into the ability and there is no way to get around it. When you shoot that bow there is a guaranteed delay before it lands no matter how close or far you are and there is no way to make it go faster. It doesnt matter if you're playing at the highest level or the lowest.

Im not saying it lands instantly, Im saying you can animation cancel so that the bow proc, does not produce a sound queue nor animation for the enemy. If it landed instantly I would not be able to dodge or block it

Oh okay my bad