Revert the class burst heal from NB

StaticWave

Johngo0036 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »
Most NBs now just camp Refreshing Path with Vigor + Dark Cloak ticking and pop a Healthy Offering if they are low. It's no longer a squishy & high burst class. It's a tanky & high burst class and that's not balanced.

Every class has access to exactly this kind of heal and also the burst damage you speak of.
I know you will argue about stamsorc not having a burst heal but sorcs DO have 2 even if you dont agree...

You have the pet that heals a ton and even darkdeal though you will argue is not a burst heal. Benefit you have as a sorc with streak is immense.. YES you may have to compromise and use a magicka skill just like stamblades have to if they want a burst heal. FYI my stam blade uses rally and vigor, NONE are NB skills to heal..

have you played a NB lately that you can make all these statements about how tanky they are... if not i suggest you do, as you also have some misconceptions about how good shadowy disguise actually is..

with the introduction of Invisible pots and vamp stage 4 anyone can also get into stealth and in some cases even more effectively than NB shadowy disguise..

You call for nerfs yet you play one of the STRONGEST classes and Builds in cyrodiil..

Please stop bringing up the pet. We all know too well that is just for the sake of argument and not actual combat. Nobody runs pets in any decent PvP sorc build and you know it. I have yet to lose to a pet sorc unless it was pre-nerf Oakensoul stamsorc with master DW and Matriarch, but that was due to a broken mythic.

Stamsorc is still the only class that requires slotting 2H for a burst heal. Dark Deal is not reliable in heavy combat, and slotting pet is an absolute joke.

I've been dueling NBs for the past month. I know how tanky they are lol.

Cloudrest

I don't think reverting Healthy Offering is the answer. With the amount of free damage floating around in the game, there's nothing else currently capable of sustaining Nightblade openworld. The detect pot change has hit invis cloak playstyles pretty hard, and it isn't super viable anymore when outnumbered. I haven't ran cloak in a few patches, anyways.

What I do think is reasonable, however, pretty much what React said earlier; is removing minor mending and (from myself) a bit of the tooltip from Healthy Offering and putting some more power into Dark Cloak. As it stands, Dark Cloak isn't even worth slotting; it's high-cost for a mediocre heal, and is out-performed in healing by Siphoning Strikes which also provides a ton of sustain for a cheap cost.

Nightblade is in a good state openworld. Hybrid isn't very tanky, and I've shifted to playing it primarily instead of Templar due to both the changes to jabs and simply desiring a change after 380+ days spent on Plar. I'd like to see DK get some much-deserved nerfs concerning Corrosive though, and for Polar to get tuned down. Delete some of the overperforming damage procs like Way of Fire and that's really about it.

Miracle19

What do you mean?????
35k in 1GCD for damage and 25k 1gcd burst heal is perfectly balanced

Cloudrest

Miracle19 wrote: »

What do you mean?????
35k in 1GCD for damage and 25k 1gcd burst heal is perfectly balanced

Yeah there's nothing wrong with Dragonknight atm at all, I agree. In fact, Corrosive needs buffed.

DrNukenstein

Miracle19 wrote: »

What do you mean?????
35k in 1GCD for damage and 25k 1gcd burst heal is perfectly balanced

35k gcd? You mean like a stacked molten whip, flames of oblivion proc and the damage at the end of the fossilize stun hitting all at the same time?

25k burst heal? You mean like coagulating blood when cast under 66% health?

boi_anachronism_

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

. How many patches have dks been overpowered and people been asking for nerfs? A lot. It has still not happened. Dk has been king across the board for ages..

This is completely false

There is nothing which dk can do which nb can’t do better

The problem is NB mains don’t know how to play their own class and finding a competent nb is a rarity in this game

Really? Lets talk about that for a second: Then why are trifecta group posts not "Lf 8 Nightblades for trifecta X" instead of LF 8 DKs? I see that post constantly. Why are score boards litterally chock full of them? NB have been straight up pushed out of endgame completely with the arcanist who will in most cases take their healer slot.(yes end game pve ran NB healers not as a dps class) Heck nefas straight up said in his video about trial comps for this patch that there is really no reason to bring a blade. They had objectively performed terribly in pve right up until the concealed buff.

Or are we only talking about one side of this? Because it very much sounds like it. Which goes right back to what i was saying before. This conversation is far from objective and has absolutely no consideration for what this does across the board. DK is THE tank class. Every single trial i have run at the vet level always has a dk tank, it is literally a requirement for mt in most guilds that run vet anything. Ive never had a nightblade tank. Not once.

Miracle19

Cloudrest wrote: »

Miracle19 wrote: »

What do you mean?????
35k in 1GCD for damage and 25k 1gcd burst heal is perfectly balanced

Yeah there's nothing wrong with Dragonknight atm at all, I agree. In fact, Corrosive needs buffed.

Yeah corrosive sucks, it should reduce all damage to 1% of max Hp. Please buff

Foxtrot39

Imho the devs never tuned that heal to be self targetable from the original iteration

They just changed the unique health only cost to a heavy upfront mag cost with a small health drain when that change occured

Because it was meant to be ally only burst heal the high heal value was due to the fact you couldn't use it on youself and to make it more interesting to slot to heal allies

Hence NB healer only having raw healing as they strength while loosing on any group utility

Weckless

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

. How many patches have dks been overpowered and people been asking for nerfs? A lot. It has still not happened. Dk has been king across the board for ages..

This is completely false

There is nothing which dk can do which nb can’t do better

The problem is NB mains don’t know how to play their own class and finding a competent nb is a rarity in this game

Really? Lets talk about that for a second: Then why are trifecta group posts not "Lf 8 Nightblades for trifecta X" instead of LF 8 DKs? I see that post constantly. Why are score boards litterally chock full of them? NB have been straight up pushed out of endgame completely with the arcanist who will in most cases take their healer slot.(yes end game pve ran NB healers not as a dps class) Heck nefas straight up said in his video about trial comps for this patch that there is really no reason to bring a blade. They had objectively performed terribly in pve right up until the concealed buff.

Or are we only talking about one side of this? Because it very much sounds like it. Which goes right back to what i was saying before. This conversation is far from objective and has absolutely no consideration for what this does across the board. DK is THE tank class. Every single trial i have run at the vet level always has a dk tank, it is literally a requirement for mt in most guilds that run vet anything. Ive never had a nightblade tank. Not once.

That dude may as well be wearing a sign that says The End is Coming in a Shadowy Disguise with a bell ringing in one hand and a brown paper bag with unknown contents in the other

boi_anachronism_

Weckless wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

. How many patches have dks been overpowered and people been asking for nerfs? A lot. It has still not happened. Dk has been king across the board for ages..

This is completely false

There is nothing which dk can do which nb can’t do better

The problem is NB mains don’t know how to play their own class and finding a competent nb is a rarity in this game

Really? Lets talk about that for a second: Then why are trifecta group posts not "Lf 8 Nightblades for trifecta X" instead of LF 8 DKs? I see that post constantly. Why are score boards litterally chock full of them? NB have been straight up pushed out of endgame completely with the arcanist who will in most cases take their healer slot.(yes end game pve ran NB healers not as a dps class) Heck nefas straight up said in his video about trial comps for this patch that there is really no reason to bring a blade. They had objectively performed terribly in pve right up until the concealed buff.

Or are we only talking about one side of this? Because it very much sounds like it. Which goes right back to what i was saying before. This conversation is far from objective and has absolutely no consideration for what this does across the board. DK is THE tank class. Every single trial i have run at the vet level always has a dk tank, it is literally a requirement for mt in most guilds that run vet anything. Ive never had a nightblade tank. Not once.

That dude may as well be wearing a sign that says The End is Coming in a Shadowy Disguise with a bell ringing in one hand and a brown paper bag with unknown contents in the other

I honestly dont have the foggiest idea what you mean. Someone saying that NB out performs DK in every sense is absurd. Thats not to say they will never be good again, patches do change balance but as of right now they are not even close to dk in this context. Im merely retorting with facts. Thats what im saying. What is the point of this comment exactly?

Weckless

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

Weckless wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

. How many patches have dks been overpowered and people been asking for nerfs? A lot. It has still not happened. Dk has been king across the board for ages..

This is completely false

There is nothing which dk can do which nb can’t do better

The problem is NB mains don’t know how to play their own class and finding a competent nb is a rarity in this game

Really? Lets talk about that for a second: Then why are trifecta group posts not "Lf 8 Nightblades for trifecta X" instead of LF 8 DKs? I see that post constantly. Why are score boards litterally chock full of them? NB have been straight up pushed out of endgame completely with the arcanist who will in most cases take their healer slot.(yes end game pve ran NB healers not as a dps class) Heck nefas straight up said in his video about trial comps for this patch that there is really no reason to bring a blade. They had objectively performed terribly in pve right up until the concealed buff.

Or are we only talking about one side of this? Because it very much sounds like it. Which goes right back to what i was saying before. This conversation is far from objective and has absolutely no consideration for what this does across the board. DK is THE tank class. Every single trial i have run at the vet level always has a dk tank, it is literally a requirement for mt in most guilds that run vet anything. Ive never had a nightblade tank. Not once.

That dude may as well be wearing a sign that says The End is Coming in a Shadowy Disguise with a bell ringing in one hand and a brown paper bag with unknown contents in the other

I honestly dont have the foggiest idea what you mean. Someone saying that NB out performs DK in every sense is absurd. Thats not to say they will never be good again, patches do change balance but as of right now they are not even close to dk in this context. Im merely retorting with facts. Thats what im saying. What is the point of this comment exactly?

Im not talking about you im talking about the guy you're talking about

PhoenixGrey

Weckless wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Weckless wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Weckless wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

I'd agree with you static if this was the old eso, but as things currently stand, with the amount of dumb ways to do damage with dot/procs I don't think removing healthy offering would be a good thing. The hybrid blade can be tanky in 1v1s but honestly, it's still squishy OW. At least compared to other classes besides sorc

It’s the hardest class to kill open world with the correct use of shade and cloak. I cannot imagine a well players nb ever dying in open world pvp. It shouldn’t be possible to lock you down if you play your 2 button defense correctly

And on top of that I have to always be on a lookout for the kiss of death which hits you for 15k at minimum. There are zero counters to it in a 1vX atleast for a sorc.

Problem is there are only a few competent NB’s in this entire game.

Most nb mains over complicate the class to the even understand that it is the best class in open world pvp.

[snip] If NB is so op and impossible to die on then why don't you prove it. Post a clip of ONE 1vX and ill shut up [snip]

I have clips only on sorc when it was playable class back in the day.
My definition of a playable class in this game will be a class which is as good if not better than NB.

Technically there is no concept of 1vX on NB as it is a combination of strategic ganks at certain time intervals.

Here is how you play NB.

Step 1 : Try hitting targets with incap and bow proc at more or less the same time
Step 2: If the target doesn't die you hit cloak/ shade and try step 1 again

I am not sure if anyone will waste time in watching you rinse and repeat 2 steps

TBH most NB mains can't even execute the 2 simple steps below and it boggles my mind how they manage not to. They overcomplicate their entire class by actually not slotting cloak and creating their own learning curve like an einstein when there is none.

Because your bow is always just magically ready at all times. If you're dying that easily to incap bow combos that isn't nb being op that's you being unable to anticipate the most easily avoidable burst combo. Its blockable and dodgdable and just the fact that youre answer is "nobody is going to stand around holding block all the time" just shows you either pvp at a low level or youre just arguing in bad faith

[snip]
[edited for baiting]

Blockable/ dodgeable / Easily anticipatable / a.k.a irrelevant counterplay actions outside the context of dueling.

What works outside dueling is heals / resists / hard counters / proc sets / burst damage

What does this even mean. Are you saying that duels are the only situation that you can anticipate a burst combo coming? Because if youre point is that with multiple people its hard to keep track of what everyone is doing then that doesnt only apply to nightblade. A dks leap-whip combo is way more dangerous and easy to land. Landing a bow after an incap requires a mixture of perfect timing, luck, and if youre lagging even a little it becomes impossible at times. You can fire a bow while your target is still in the break free animation and still be dodged

[edited to remove quote]

You can literally spot a dk leap and block it even while outnumbered

I don’t know what build you are using but nb attacks usually crit when built properly and the tooltip on assassin’s will is much higher than the whole dk combo.

boi_anachronism_

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Weckless wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Weckless wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Weckless wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

I'd agree with you static if this was the old eso, but as things currently stand, with the amount of dumb ways to do damage with dot/procs I don't think removing healthy offering would be a good thing. The hybrid blade can be tanky in 1v1s but honestly, it's still squishy OW. At least compared to other classes besides sorc

It’s the hardest class to kill open world with the correct use of shade and cloak. I cannot imagine a well players nb ever dying in open world pvp. It shouldn’t be possible to lock you down if you play your 2 button defense correctly

And on top of that I have to always be on a lookout for the kiss of death which hits you for 15k at minimum. There are zero counters to it in a 1vX atleast for a sorc.

Problem is there are only a few competent NB’s in this entire game.

Most nb mains over complicate the class to the even understand that it is the best class in open world pvp.

[snip] If NB is so op and impossible to die on then why don't you prove it. Post a clip of ONE 1vX and ill shut up [snip]

I have clips only on sorc when it was playable class back in the day.
My definition of a playable class in this game will be a class which is as good if not better than NB.

Technically there is no concept of 1vX on NB as it is a combination of strategic ganks at certain time intervals.

Here is how you play NB.

Step 1 : Try hitting targets with incap and bow proc at more or less the same time
Step 2: If the target doesn't die you hit cloak/ shade and try step 1 again

I am not sure if anyone will waste time in watching you rinse and repeat 2 steps

TBH most NB mains can't even execute the 2 simple steps below and it boggles my mind how they manage not to. They overcomplicate their entire class by actually not slotting cloak and creating their own learning curve like an einstein when there is none.

Because your bow is always just magically ready at all times. If you're dying that easily to incap bow combos that isn't nb being op that's you being unable to anticipate the most easily avoidable burst combo. Its blockable and dodgdable and just the fact that youre answer is "nobody is going to stand around holding block all the time" just shows you either pvp at a low level or youre just arguing in bad faith

[snip]
[edited for baiting]

Blockable/ dodgeable / Easily anticipatable / a.k.a irrelevant counterplay actions outside the context of dueling.

What works outside dueling is heals / resists / hard counters / proc sets / burst damage

What does this even mean. Are you saying that duels are the only situation that you can anticipate a burst combo coming? Because if youre point is that with multiple people its hard to keep track of what everyone is doing then that doesnt only apply to nightblade. A dks leap-whip combo is way more dangerous and easy to land. Landing a bow after an incap requires a mixture of perfect timing, luck, and if youre lagging even a little it becomes impossible at times. You can fire a bow while your target is still in the break free animation and still be dodged

[edited to remove quote]

You can literally spot a dk leap and block it even while outnumbered

I don’t know what build you are using but nb attacks usually crit when built properly and the tooltip on assassin’s will is much higher than the whole dk combo.

Your basically side stepping everything i said.... im looking full picture while y'all looking at one side of it. I know quite a bit about dks and ive been playing a blade for years and have at least 8 different builds. So yeah i know a lot about how the class works across all content not just pvp.

Cast_El

<snip>

Nb is not the most broken class (dk is) but they have no draw back like they used to. They got buffed and buffed, while others got nerfed and nerfed. They can teleport through wall, have the highest tooltip damage skill in the game,has a 10%bonus damage for slotting one Skill, have insane mobility tools kit and are supposed to be squishy but they are not anymore. Part or this results is due to hybridization, adding minor resolve to vigor.

<snipped for baiting/trolling>

Cast_El

Mayrael wrote: »

No

Sounds like a Nb main player

edward_frigidhands

StaticWave wrote: »

TybaltKaine wrote: »

Never heard of you, or any of them tbh. But go on and cook.

You wouldn’t know, but a lot of seasoned PvPers on PC NA and on the forums know.

I mean I can literally link their youtube lmao but that would just be unnecessary.

The point is, you didn’t destroy my arguement. The moment I saw you say stamsorc with pets are broken, and AoE DoTs with Liquid Lightning, I already knew you are a PvEr. If you type “meta stamsorc build” on youtube, you’re not gonna find a single stamsorc build with liquid lightning and pet lol.

Look man, I understand you don’t want it nerfed for PvE reasons, and that’s fine. I am down to discuss. But to go on here and say it’s a “skill issue” on my end when you clearly don’t know the current PvP meta doesn’t really help your argument.

You just named an entire bar full of defensive skills for Night Blade to accomplish what you are labeling as survivability. One of those scales entirely with health only rather than offensive stats.

How would this hypothetical build now have the ability to bring the damage necessary for it to be labeled over tuned?

I understand this is something you are upset about but honestly the lack of details regarding this hypothetical Night Blade build makes this sound like some sort of skill issue.

Do you have any experience playing or building Night Blades?

edward_frigidhands

Vaqual wrote: »

Literally slotting 4 heals/shields can make any class almost unkillable in 1v1 scenarios.

The game is designed to let you play how you want, if you're sacrificing damage to gain survivability via stats and bar slots then that is what you will have.

I have never seen any class with any build bring both, especially not with an entire bar dedicated to defense. Perhaps they have a burst window with something like Corrosive but other than that I simply have not seen it and difficulty imagining a build with 4-5 defensives running around killing people with ease while 'face-tanking' damage.

Weckless

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Weckless wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Weckless wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Weckless wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

I'd agree with you static if this was the old eso, but as things currently stand, with the amount of dumb ways to do damage with dot/procs I don't think removing healthy offering would be a good thing. The hybrid blade can be tanky in 1v1s but honestly, it's still squishy OW. At least compared to other classes besides sorc

It’s the hardest class to kill open world with the correct use of shade and cloak. I cannot imagine a well players nb ever dying in open world pvp. It shouldn’t be possible to lock you down if you play your 2 button defense correctly

And on top of that I have to always be on a lookout for the kiss of death which hits you for 15k at minimum. There are zero counters to it in a 1vX atleast for a sorc.

Problem is there are only a few competent NB’s in this entire game.

Most nb mains over complicate the class to the even understand that it is the best class in open world pvp.

[snip] If NB is so op and impossible to die on then why don't you prove it. Post a clip of ONE 1vX and ill shut up [snip]

I have clips only on sorc when it was playable class back in the day.
My definition of a playable class in this game will be a class which is as good if not better than NB.

Technically there is no concept of 1vX on NB as it is a combination of strategic ganks at certain time intervals.

Here is how you play NB.

Step 1 : Try hitting targets with incap and bow proc at more or less the same time
Step 2: If the target doesn't die you hit cloak/ shade and try step 1 again

I am not sure if anyone will waste time in watching you rinse and repeat 2 steps

TBH most NB mains can't even execute the 2 simple steps below and it boggles my mind how they manage not to. They overcomplicate their entire class by actually not slotting cloak and creating their own learning curve like an einstein when there is none.

Because your bow is always just magically ready at all times. If you're dying that easily to incap bow combos that isn't nb being op that's you being unable to anticipate the most easily avoidable burst combo. Its blockable and dodgdable and just the fact that youre answer is "nobody is going to stand around holding block all the time" just shows you either pvp at a low level or youre just arguing in bad faith

[snip]
[edited for baiting]

Blockable/ dodgeable / Easily anticipatable / a.k.a irrelevant counterplay actions outside the context of dueling.

What works outside dueling is heals / resists / hard counters / proc sets / burst damage

What does this even mean. Are you saying that duels are the only situation that you can anticipate a burst combo coming? Because if youre point is that with multiple people its hard to keep track of what everyone is doing then that doesnt only apply to nightblade. A dks leap-whip combo is way more dangerous and easy to land. Landing a bow after an incap requires a mixture of perfect timing, luck, and if youre lagging even a little it becomes impossible at times. You can fire a bow while your target is still in the break free animation and still be dodged

[edited to remove quote]

You can literally spot a dk leap and block it even while outnumbered

I don’t know what build you are using but nb attacks usually crit when built properly and the tooltip on assassin’s will is much higher than the whole dk combo.

The damage they do is irrelevant when one combo is dodged 90% of the time. And if a dk lands his leap the whip is pretty much guaranteed because of how buggy knock ups are in this game. If a NB could land its bow after every incap like DKs could land their whip then Id agree with you that NB was as dangerous as you claim but thats just not true. If a NB lands that combo on you the only excuse you have is lag. Theres no situation other than that it should be landing on a player that has even a slight amount of pvp experience

Weckless

And im not saying that NB isnt strong right now. But to say that everything a DK can do a NB can do better is absurd

OBJnoob

They both need to be slightly nerfed tbh. It's funny to me that people point to the other undeniably OP class to defend the only other one.

Weckless

OBJnoob wrote: »

They both need to be slightly nerfed tbh. It's funny to me that people point to the other undeniably OP class to defend the only other one.

Well when you have someone as delusional as this guy saying things like "it should be impossible to lose a duel on a NB" and "A NB should never die open world outnumbered," "Everything a DK can do a NB does better," and the cherry on top "NB has more burst THAN EVERY OTHER CLASS COMBINED" then it's completely reasonable to disagree

StaticWave

edward_frigidhands wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

TybaltKaine wrote: »

Never heard of you, or any of them tbh. But go on and cook.

You wouldn’t know, but a lot of seasoned PvPers on PC NA and on the forums know.

I mean I can literally link their youtube lmao but that would just be unnecessary.

The point is, you didn’t destroy my arguement. The moment I saw you say stamsorc with pets are broken, and AoE DoTs with Liquid Lightning, I already knew you are a PvEr. If you type “meta stamsorc build” on youtube, you’re not gonna find a single stamsorc build with liquid lightning and pet lol.

Look man, I understand you don’t want it nerfed for PvE reasons, and that’s fine. I am down to discuss. But to go on here and say it’s a “skill issue” on my end when you clearly don’t know the current PvP meta doesn’t really help your argument.

You just named an entire bar full of defensive skills for Night Blade to accomplish what you are labeling as survivability. One of those scales entirely with health only rather than offensive stats.

How would this hypothetical build now have the ability to bring the damage necessary for it to be labeled over tuned?

I understand this is something you are upset about but honestly the lack of details regarding this hypothetical Night Blade build makes this sound like some sort of skill issue.

Do you have any experience playing or building Night Blades?

NB only needs Concealed Weapon and Spectral Bow to do as much damage as someone who slots 3-4 burst abilities on their bar. That is how efficient their offense is.

This is largely due to NB having a ton of damage modifiers (10% crit dmg, 10% unnamed dmg done on Concealed Weapon, 20% dmg taken on Incap, & 300 spell dmg for a full stack Spectral Bow) and Spectral Bow having a significantly higher tooltip than any burst ability in the game.

This is why they can afford to run mostly defensive skills. If you try to slot only 2 offensive abilities on a Sorc, you most likely won’t be able to kill anyone decent.

This is not because I’m upset about the class. I am looking at this from an objective point of view, or as objective as I can be. I do have experience building NBs. I just prefer playing Sorc over it.

StaticWave

And to reiterate my original argument, I am not asking for the offensive aspect of NB to be nerfed. NB’s combo has not been tampered with for years now, as there are several counter plays against it (blocking or roll dodging).

However, NB does have a lot of damage amplifying passives and secondary effects that massively amp up their offensive skills. While this is needed in some scenarios, some people may want some of the damage amplifiers reduced in potency, and I could agree with that to a certain extent.

What I have been asking for is readjusting the burst heal of NB to prevent the class from quickly yoinking back to full HP, especially when they already have 2 amazing escape tools at their disposal (Cloak and Shadow Image for stealthblade or Shadow Image for brawlerblade). Obviously, their class HoTs would have to be buffed to compensate, and I fully support that.

boi_anachronism_

Were you around for elswyer? If not id encourage you to look at those patch notes. It was paragraphs of blade nerfs. Before that it was absolutely a NB meta. They already nerfed the concealed buff for pve. No idea why they didnt for pvp but thats another conversation. Additionally there is literally no reason to insult people. While i do main a blade in pve i actually use a 2 bar mag sorc almost exclusively in pvp because i simply like the style for that kind of content better so no, im not "afraid" of a pvp nerf. As ive said, i have no issue with stealth having ramping costs, i think it should. I dont believe concealed should get a buff leaving stealth or crouch either but these are things that only effect pvp meaningfully where as the the overwhelming sentiment of pvp players is that they only care about their side of the issue without any consideration for the larger picture. Thats pretty clear cut based on this thread. Side note- how on earth are you not able to dodge a bow proc? You can see that coming a mile away. I cant remember the last time i was killed by a blade and im hardly a meta pvper in any sense. Streak stuns them out of stealth, a followed by a solid combo and they are basically toast. A decent snare destroys them. Gankers will get hit exceedingly hard this patch as well with detect pots now having a whopping 44.5m radius.

Weckless

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

Were you around for elswyer? If not id encourage you to look at those patch notes. It was paragraphs of blade nerfs. Before that it was absolutely a NB meta. They already nerfed the concealed buff for pve. No idea why they didnt for pvp but thats another conversation. Additionally there is literally no reason to insult people. While i do main a blade in pve i actually use a 2 bar mag sorc almost exclusively in pvp because i simply like the style for that kind of content better so no, im not "afraid" of a pvp nerf. As ive said, i have no issue with stealth having ramping costs, i think it should. I dont believe concealed should get a buff leaving stealth or crouch either but these are things that only effect pvp meaningfully where as the the overwhelming sentiment of pvp players is that they only care about their side of the issue without any consideration for the larger picture. Thats pretty clear cut based on this thread. Side note- how on earth are you not able to dodge a bow proc? You can see that coming a mile away. I cant remember the last time i was killed by a blade and im hardly a meta pvper in any sense. Streak stuns them out of stealth, a followed by a solid combo and they are basically toast. A decent snare destroys them. Gankers will get hit exceedingly hard this patch as well with detect pots now having a whopping 44.5m radius.

Yea these dudes dont know about NB with major fracture on surprise attack, major defile on incap, and 8% minor berserk and minor endurance on relentless focus and the old double take, with major expedition on crippling grasp 🤣

StaticWave

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

Were you around for elswyer? If not id encourage you to look at those patch notes. It was paragraphs of blade nerfs. Before that it was absolutely a NB meta. They already nerfed the concealed buff for pve. No idea why they didnt for pvp but thats another conversation. Additionally there is literally no reason to insult people. While i do main a blade in pve i actually use a 2 bar mag sorc almost exclusively in pvp because i simply like the style for that kind of content better so no, im not "afraid" of a pvp nerf. As ive said, i have no issue with stealth having ramping costs, i think it should. I dont believe concealed should get a buff leaving stealth or crouch either but these are things that only effect pvp meaningfully where as the the overwhelming sentiment of pvp players is that they only care about their side of the issue without any consideration for the larger picture. Thats pretty clear cut based on this thread. Side note- how on earth are you not able to dodge a bow proc? You can see that coming a mile away. I cant remember the last time i was killed by a blade and im hardly a meta pvper in any sense. Streak stuns them out of stealth, a followed by a solid combo and they are basically toast. A decent snare destroys them. Gankers will get hit exceedingly hard this patch as well with detect pots now having a whopping 44.5m radius.

I was around for Elsweyr. I know all those patch notes lol. I played NB for 6 months before switching to stamsorc.

I never died to a spectral bow either, until I moved to Asia and played with 250 ping. Going from 90-100ms to 250-290ms is a massive difference and it's literally impossible to avoid an Incap + Bow Proc combo. You can test that out if you have a VPN. This is not to mention there is a 0.3s delay with roll dodge where you actually don't get an I-frame until the server has registered that you've performed a roll. High ping players usually have trouble against NBs because of ping reasons, not because they don't know how to dodge the bow.

Weckless

StaticWave wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

Were you around for elswyer? If not id encourage you to look at those patch notes. It was paragraphs of blade nerfs. Before that it was absolutely a NB meta. They already nerfed the concealed buff for pve. No idea why they didnt for pvp but thats another conversation. Additionally there is literally no reason to insult people. While i do main a blade in pve i actually use a 2 bar mag sorc almost exclusively in pvp because i simply like the style for that kind of content better so no, im not "afraid" of a pvp nerf. As ive said, i have no issue with stealth having ramping costs, i think it should. I dont believe concealed should get a buff leaving stealth or crouch either but these are things that only effect pvp meaningfully where as the the overwhelming sentiment of pvp players is that they only care about their side of the issue without any consideration for the larger picture. Thats pretty clear cut based on this thread. Side note- how on earth are you not able to dodge a bow proc? You can see that coming a mile away. I cant remember the last time i was killed by a blade and im hardly a meta pvper in any sense. Streak stuns them out of stealth, a followed by a solid combo and they are basically toast. A decent snare destroys them. Gankers will get hit exceedingly hard this patch as well with detect pots now having a whopping 44.5m radius.

I was around for Elsweyr. I know all those patch notes lol. I played NB for 6 months before switching to stamsorc.

I never died to a spectral bow either, until I moved to Asia and played with 250 ping. Going from 90-100ms to 250-290ms is a massive difference and it's literally impossible to avoid an Incap + Bow Proc combo. You can test that out if you have a VPN. This is not to mention there is a 0.3s delay with roll dodge where you actually don't get an I-frame until the server has registered that you've performed a roll. High ping players usually have trouble against NBs because of ping reasons, not because they don't know how to dodge the bow.

It must be backwards if the NB has high ping bc ill shoot my bow while they're still breaking free and itll get dodged lol

Metemsycosis

I love nb but this burst heal undeniably contributes to its being overtuned. With homogenization of class skills how could it be avoided?

However I still don't think NB is top dog. Warden, corrosive DK both outshine NB even if just slightly.

warm_blanket

React wrote: »

1) Remove the vitality from healthy offering

2) Make the morph effect for healthy offering just 5% more TT value

3) Make the self DOT work like relequen. Pressing offering within the 5s window adds a stack and refreshes the self dot duration, up to 5 stacks. The self DOT probably could receive a slight increase in damage at base, as well.

Cloudrest wrote: »

What I do think is reasonable, however, pretty much what React said earlier; is removing minor mending and (from myself) a bit of the tooltip from Healthy Offering and putting some more power into Dark Cloak. As it stands, Dark Cloak isn't even worth slotting; it's high-cost for a mediocre heal, and is out-performed in healing by Siphoning Strikes which also provides a ton of sustain for a cheap cost.

Just pointing out these two suggestions are solid and worth a serious look. I'd like to see them both tried out on the next PTS cycle.

Transferring a small % of the healing tooltip from Offering into Dark Cloak is extra nice because it prevents stacking the full strength burst heal with the Shadowy Disguise morph - not that invis is all that great anymore. Still it's smart since it enforces a sensible trade off between invis and healing potential.

While we're at it survivability in general feels much too high in pvp, not only for NB. There's many different contributing factors for this, but that deserves another thread.

SandandStars

^^ Honest NB Main.

I salute you, Muerto.