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Let's talk about weaving
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isadoraisacat✭✭✭✭✭isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »Ragnarok0130 wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »Weaving requires 1 mouse click and 1 skill button click per second. That's 120 "clicks" per minute. After playing brass instruments at a high level for a decade plus, it's quite slow, and far fewer clicks, just have to stay on rhythm.
Some people don’t like rhythm games.
I’ve been playing guitar and bass In bands since the 90s, playing an instrument creates something this is just mindless clicking, in a game series that should be more immersive with more realistic combat.
Some people have bad ping / and or disabilities which makes playing non musical guitar hero not possible.
Some times people just want to cast spells and role play in a role playing game and not play medieval fantasy guitar hero.
In reality the button clicking in every MMORPG is mindless clicking. It serves no real purpose.
In ESO, no one has to weave. It is a choice. If the player has the basics down they will do good DPS without weaving and be able to get into most raid groups. Sure, weaving will bump their DPS up a measure but if they do not have those basics down it becomes irrelevant.
Precisely, weaving is one of the differences between merely performing combat and mastering combat that Brian Wheeler spoke about. Mastery is something the devs want in the game and want to reward.
To the anti-weavers in the thread, the devs actively embraced weaving years ago to the point that it's even a tool tip on the loading screen; it's not going away no matter how many people stomp their feet.
They embraced it because it was a bug they couldn’t fix. A bug that removes its combat so far from the elder scrolls roots that it turns off many players form the game. They finally add other ways to play that make it feel more like an elder scrolls game and those elite players are now attempting to destroy that.
Dungeon / trial mechanics are the difficult parts anyone can weave. It’s a brain dead mechanic of pressing 2 buttons. It’s not that it’s hard it’s that it’s not fun, it’s painful for the disabled, and it’s hard to do when someone has inconsistent ping.
Nobody is trying to "destroy" the builds... it's going to be a like 3% change in damage. The hyperbole is getting out of hand. You will still be able to do all the things you've done before.
Again … have you seen comments people want this play style gone. This is the second nerf to the play style and again it won’t be the last. People are already saying “it needs to be nerfed more”.
There is no “ hyperbole” these are genuine concerns, by many players. The “3 %” change is not the concern the concern is the bowing down to elitists and the constant cries for nerfs that will continue.
I have no desire to see the playstyle "gone", others (including you) clearly want LA weaving removed, how's their opinion any different? They aren't removing either. I think the slight nerf they made to it is reasonable and inline with the goals the developers have stated.
I don’t want light attack removed and you can read my post history where I said exactly that I don’t want removed it. I don’t like the play style but I wouldn’t want to take away what others like.
[snip]
I can't read your post history, you've made sure your settings don't allow it, which is your right to do so.
I'm only basing it on the comments I have seen in the two threads on it... and from those it's obvious you don't want the style in the game, and anybody who uses it is an "elitist". After playing ESO, I literally cannot play any other Elder Scrolls game, it's so clunky and slow, I'm actually nervous about ES6, and I'm hoping it has action combat like ESO, not like previous iterations of the series.
If you do, that is fine, it's also your right, but I'm tired of the name-calling.
I don’t care if it’s in the game. What I care about is those who don’t want alternative play styles in the game. That is my issue so you are wrong. How other people play doesn’t affect me.. I wish those others calling for nerfs would see the same way.
A finger Waltz is not “action combat” if the bring in this weaving [snip] into elder scrolls 6 real elder scrolls fans would be very unhappy. It’s the reason why many elder scrolls fans can not get into eso the combat is not fun it’s combat for a shooter / fighting game and not an rpg.
[edited for profanity bypass & to remove quote]
But ESO lets you play exactly how you can in the previous ES titles... and still do all content. It just allows for additional combat methods above and beyond... more choice! I'd think that was a good thing.
Eso plays nothing like the previous titles.
The combat is nothing like the action in the moment hack and slash (with awesome kill cams) that Skyrim had.
If you really think mmo combat in this game and Skyrim have the same combat we are not playing the same games.2 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »Weaving requires 1 mouse click and 1 skill button click per second. That's 120 "clicks" per minute. After playing brass instruments at a high level for a decade plus, it's quite slow, and far fewer clicks, just have to stay on rhythm.
Some people don’t like rhythm games.
I’ve been playing guitar and bass In bands since the 90s, playing an instrument creates something this is just mindless clicking, in a game series that should be more immersive with more realistic combat.
Some people have bad ping / and or disabilities which makes playing non musical guitar hero not possible.
Some times people just want to cast spells and role play in a role playing game and not play medieval fantasy guitar hero.
In reality the button clicking in every MMORPG is mindless clicking. It serves no real purpose.
In ESO, no one has to weave. It is a choice. If the player has the basics down they will do good DPS without weaving and be able to get into most raid groups. Sure, weaving will bump their DPS up a measure but if they do not have those basics down it becomes irrelevant.
It really isn’t a choice when that’s the only way to hit the highest dps. This is an elder scrolls game they could have used a more elder scrolls Style of combat but instead they went with this. Many don’t like it.
It does not become irrelevant it becomes relevant when they can’t do parts of the game because they get vote kicked from a dungeon for not doing the proper dps or made fun of by arrogant players.
Few players reach the highest dps to start with as most are not willing to put in the time to refine their rotation. Most lack the basics that are the most significant portion damage for a top dps player.
If a player lacks the basics they will not be saved by light weaving. No content in the game requires weaving to clear with ease.
Also, if a player is a solid DD but doesn’t weave no group will vote kick them as they would be carrying a GF group. One would wonder what such a player would be doing with random players as they could easily find decent guilds to be part of and have far superior experiences than what the GF groups will provide.
4 -
isadoraisacat✭✭✭✭✭isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »Weaving requires 1 mouse click and 1 skill button click per second. That's 120 "clicks" per minute. After playing brass instruments at a high level for a decade plus, it's quite slow, and far fewer clicks, just have to stay on rhythm.
Some people don’t like rhythm games.
I’ve been playing guitar and bass In bands since the 90s, playing an instrument creates something this is just mindless clicking, in a game series that should be more immersive with more realistic combat.
Some people have bad ping / and or disabilities which makes playing non musical guitar hero not possible.
Some times people just want to cast spells and role play in a role playing game and not play medieval fantasy guitar hero.
In reality the button clicking in every MMORPG is mindless clicking. It serves no real purpose.
In ESO, no one has to weave. It is a choice. If the player has the basics down they will do good DPS without weaving and be able to get into most raid groups. Sure, weaving will bump their DPS up a measure but if they do not have those basics down it becomes irrelevant.
It really isn’t a choice when that’s the only way to hit the highest dps. This is an elder scrolls game they could have used a more elder scrolls Style of combat but instead they went with this. Many don’t like it.
It does not become irrelevant it becomes relevant when they can’t do parts of the game because they get vote kicked from a dungeon for not doing the proper dps or made fun of by arrogant players.
Few players reach the highest dps to start with as most are not willing to put in the time to refine their rotation. Most lack the basics that are the most significant portion damage for a top dps player.
If a player lacks the basics they will not be saved by light weaving. No content in the game requires weaving to clear with ease.
Also, if a player is a solid DD but doesn’t weave no group will vote kick them as they would be carrying a GF group. One would wonder what such a player would be doing with random players as they could easily find decent guilds to be part of and have far superior experiences than what the GF groups will provide.
Not true. I’ve been vote kicked in a vet group for using heavy attack and I was doing more dps than the dps who vote kicked me. So that is not true.4 -
Galeriano✭✭✭✭✭
✭
How fun is it for you? Because for me, it's really enjoyable, and I am a healer.
You have bad ping in an online game. What does it have to do with weaving? You would struggle to play in any MMO with 999+ ping no matter what gameplay that game would have.Edited by Galeriano on April 30, 2023 5:09PM8 -
Ragnarok0130✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭isadoraisacat wrote: »Ragnarok0130 wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »Weaving requires 1 mouse click and 1 skill button click per second. That's 120 "clicks" per minute. After playing brass instruments at a high level for a decade plus, it's quite slow, and far fewer clicks, just have to stay on rhythm.
Some people don’t like rhythm games.
I’ve been playing guitar and bass In bands since the 90s, playing an instrument creates something this is just mindless clicking, in a game series that should be more immersive with more realistic combat.
Some people have bad ping / and or disabilities which makes playing non musical guitar hero not possible.
Some times people just want to cast spells and role play in a role playing game and not play medieval fantasy guitar hero.
In reality the button clicking in every MMORPG is mindless clicking. It serves no real purpose.
In ESO, no one has to weave. It is a choice. If the player has the basics down they will do good DPS without weaving and be able to get into most raid groups. Sure, weaving will bump their DPS up a measure but if they do not have those basics down it becomes irrelevant.
Precisely, weaving is one of the differences between merely performing combat and mastering combat that Brian Wheeler spoke about. Mastery is something the devs want in the game and want to reward.
To the anti-weavers in the thread, the devs actively embraced weaving years ago to the point that it's even a tool tip on the loading screen; it's not going away no matter how many people stomp their feet.
They embraced it because it was a bug they couldn’t fix. A bug that removes its combat so far from the elder scrolls roots that it turns off many players form the game. They finally add other ways to play that make it feel more like an elder scrolls game and those elite players are now attempting to destroy that.
Dungeon / trial mechanics are the difficult parts anyone can weave. It’s a brain dead mechanic of pressing 2 buttons. It’s not that it’s hard it’s that it’s not fun, it’s painful for the disabled, and it’s hard to do when someone has inconsistent ping.
Animation cancelling is not and has never been "a bug" or it would have been fixed ages ago. Can you please link the source you're using showing animation cancelling is classified as a bug by ZoS and is unfixable as I've not been able to find it no matter how many times it's been said? We can however point directly to the U35 non-Q&A from the combat team addressing combat mastery which includes weaving.
I'm curious how weaving can be both a "brain dead mechanic" that anyone can do yet simultaneously be some huge unconquerable mechanic preventing people from entering the end game as they seem to be mutually exclusive positions. I personally find weaving to be fun when I play DPS and I know many other people in the end game who also like weaving so "fun" is a highly subjective metric to base game changes on when they've been in the game for its entire life.3 -
Ragnarok0130✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »Ragnarok0130 wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »Weaving requires 1 mouse click and 1 skill button click per second. That's 120 "clicks" per minute. After playing brass instruments at a high level for a decade plus, it's quite slow, and far fewer clicks, just have to stay on rhythm.
Some people don’t like rhythm games.
I’ve been playing guitar and bass In bands since the 90s, playing an instrument creates something this is just mindless clicking, in a game series that should be more immersive with more realistic combat.
Some people have bad ping / and or disabilities which makes playing non musical guitar hero not possible.
Some times people just want to cast spells and role play in a role playing game and not play medieval fantasy guitar hero.
In reality the button clicking in every MMORPG is mindless clicking. It serves no real purpose.
In ESO, no one has to weave. It is a choice. If the player has the basics down they will do good DPS without weaving and be able to get into most raid groups. Sure, weaving will bump their DPS up a measure but if they do not have those basics down it becomes irrelevant.
Precisely, weaving is one of the differences between merely performing combat and mastering combat that Brian Wheeler spoke about. Mastery is something the devs want in the game and want to reward.
To the anti-weavers in the thread, the devs actively embraced weaving years ago to the point that it's even a tool tip on the loading screen; it's not going away no matter how many people stomp their feet.
They embraced it because it was a bug they couldn’t fix. A bug that removes its combat so far from the elder scrolls roots that it turns off many players form the game. They finally add other ways to play that make it feel more like an elder scrolls game and those elite players are now attempting to destroy that.
Dungeon / trial mechanics are the difficult parts anyone can weave. It’s a brain dead mechanic of pressing 2 buttons. It’s not that it’s hard it’s that it’s not fun, it’s painful for the disabled, and it’s hard to do when someone has inconsistent ping.
Nobody is trying to "destroy" the builds... it's going to be a like 3% change in damage. The hyperbole is getting out of hand. You will still be able to do all the things you've done before.
Again … have you seen comments people want this play style gone. This is the second nerf to the play style and again it won’t be the last. People are already saying “it needs to be nerfed more”.
There is no “ hyperbole” these are genuine concerns, by many players. The “3 %” change is not the concern the concern is the bowing down to elitists and the constant cries for nerfs that will continue.
For the love of Kyne ZoS is NOT bowing down to "elitists" by nerfing HA builds by 3-5%, they are adjusting HA builds - with a scalpel mind you instead of their normal sledgehammer - based on their own combat vision and data metrics as ZoS stated here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7850463/#Comment_7850463
Since we've started working on Heavy Attack build viability in the past year, we've seen a massive surge in their use, which is absolutely phenomenal for seeing more players being able to participate in end-game content at a much more digestible pace. While we're happy to see these builds being ran, we're seeing these builds inch a little too close to some of the high end builds with how much more simplified they are, and in some rare cases, they're outperforming a standard build. We're cutting down the damage bonus here ever so slightly in hopes that when you have Empower with a bunch of other Heavy Attack bonus sets, the numbers are still nice and juicy, but not as close to a full-on Light Attack build.isadoraisacat wrote: »This is the second nerf to the play style and again it won’t be the last. People are already saying “it needs to be nerfed more”.
You're right it won't be the last nerf to the build, but there will likely be buffs to the build in the future too because that's how MMOs work. I'm really curious, how long have you played ESO, is this your first MMO? I ask because continuous nerfs, buffs, and adjustments are part and parcel of MMOs and other live service games so if outside of ESO you're a single player RPG gamer you might be confused and frustrated at the balancing cycle that multiplayer games go through which doesn't happen in TES games. I've been a Templar main since launch and my class has had so many buffs and nerfs, and outright skill changes and reworks since launch that 2 adjustments to a build in one year is nothing short of remarkable for its stability given how powerful HA and Oakenbuilds are. I'm genuinely surprised there haven't been a larger number of bigger adjustments to these builds over the past year given how powerful they are for their ease as the patch notes above stated.8 -
Ragnarok0130✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »Weaving requires 1 mouse click and 1 skill button click per second. That's 120 "clicks" per minute. After playing brass instruments at a high level for a decade plus, it's quite slow, and far fewer clicks, just have to stay on rhythm.
Some people don’t like rhythm games.
I’ve been playing guitar and bass In bands since the 90s, playing an instrument creates something this is just mindless clicking, in a game series that should be more immersive with more realistic combat.
Some people have bad ping / and or disabilities which makes playing non musical guitar hero not possible.
Some times people just want to cast spells and role play in a role playing game and not play medieval fantasy guitar hero.
In reality the button clicking in every MMORPG is mindless clicking. It serves no real purpose.
In ESO, no one has to weave. It is a choice. If the player has the basics down they will do good DPS without weaving and be able to get into most raid groups. Sure, weaving will bump their DPS up a measure but if they do not have those basics down it becomes irrelevant.
It really isn’t a choice when that’s the only way to hit the highest dps. This is an elder scrolls game they could have used a more elder scrolls Style of combat but instead they went with this. Many don’t like it.
It does not become irrelevant it becomes relevant when they can’t do parts of the game because they get vote kicked from a dungeon for not doing the proper dps or made fun of by arrogant players.
Few players reach the highest dps to start with as most are not willing to put in the time to refine their rotation. Most lack the basics that are the most significant portion damage for a top dps player.
If a player lacks the basics they will not be saved by light weaving. No content in the game requires weaving to clear with ease.
Also, if a player is a solid DD but doesn’t weave no group will vote kick them as they would be carrying a GF group. One would wonder what such a player would be doing with random players as they could easily find decent guilds to be part of and have far superior experiences than what the GF groups will provide.
Not true. I’ve been vote kicked in a vet group for using heavy attack and I was doing more dps than the dps who vote kicked me. So that is not true.
I'm not saying you haven't been kicked, but how do you know it was for using HA builds and how many times have you been kicked? Did they whisper you after kicking you telling you why you were kicked and that it was for using a HA build? If you were kicked once you had bad luck with a group. If you are kicked repeatedly you would be better served looking at yourself and your performance before blaming it on using a HA build that 75% of people seem to be running right now in trial and dungeon PUGs. Are you not following mechs, were you causing drama in group chat, are you lagging behind, because being kicked for using a HA build is the most unlikely scenario out of all of those.
I run vet dungeons all of the time and people only care about DPS and following mechs (if they can't burn the boss with DPS first) and don't care about what build someone uses if they can kill the boss in a reasonable amount of time.6 -
Tradewind✭✭✭✭Ragnarok0130 wrote: »For the love of Kyne ZoS is NOT bowing down to "elitists" by nerfing HA builds by 3-5%, they are adjusting HA builds - with a scalpel mind you instead of their normal sledgehammer - based on their own combat vision and data metrics as ZoS stated here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7850463/#Comment_7850463
That's your opinion. However, myself and perhaps others may disagree with you.
This nerf will only benefit those who sell carries, no one else! And who are the ones selling carries?
All lose, only some win! I say everyone loses, because any player can use this kind of build. Anyone!
And who does that hurt? Only those who sell rides, and players with a nice rotation of 100k won't sell Godslayer or GH.
ps:
Problem with lag almost resolved
Edited by Tradewind on April 30, 2023 6:44PM5 -
Soarora✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ragnarok0130 wrote: »For the love of Kyne ZoS is NOT bowing down to "elitists" by nerfing HA builds by 3-5%, they are adjusting HA builds - with a scalpel mind you instead of their normal sledgehammer - based on their own combat vision and data metrics as ZoS stated here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7850463/#Comment_7850463
That's your opinion. However, myself and perhaps others may disagree with you.
This nerf will only benefit those who sell carries, no one else! And who are the ones selling carries?
All lose, only some win! I say everyone loses, because any player can use this kind of build. Anyone!
And who does that hurt? Only those who sell rides, and players with a nice rotation of 100k won't sell Godslayer or GH.
ps:
Problem with lag almost resolved
Most HAers can’t afford carries. I can say this with confidence because most people cant afford carries. Do you know how much carries cost? It’s like… double digits in the millions for trials. People who sell carries don’t benefit all that much from HA being nerfed.
PC/NA Dungeoneer (Tank/DPS/Heal), Trialist (DPS/Tank/Heal), and amateur Battlegrounder (DPS) with a passion for The Elder Scrolls lore- CP 2000+
- Warden Healer - Arcanist Healer - Warden Brittleden - Stamarc - Sorc Tank - Necro Tank - Templar Tank - Arcanist Tank
- Trials: 9/12 HMs - 3/8 Tris
- Dungeons: 30/30 HMs - 24/24 Tris
- All Veterans completed!
View my builds!
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isadoraisacat✭✭✭✭✭Ragnarok0130 wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »Ragnarok0130 wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »Weaving requires 1 mouse click and 1 skill button click per second. That's 120 "clicks" per minute. After playing brass instruments at a high level for a decade plus, it's quite slow, and far fewer clicks, just have to stay on rhythm.
Some people don’t like rhythm games.
I’ve been playing guitar and bass In bands since the 90s, playing an instrument creates something this is just mindless clicking, in a game series that should be more immersive with more realistic combat.
Some people have bad ping / and or disabilities which makes playing non musical guitar hero not possible.
Some times people just want to cast spells and role play in a role playing game and not play medieval fantasy guitar hero.
In reality the button clicking in every MMORPG is mindless clicking. It serves no real purpose.
In ESO, no one has to weave. It is a choice. If the player has the basics down they will do good DPS without weaving and be able to get into most raid groups. Sure, weaving will bump their DPS up a measure but if they do not have those basics down it becomes irrelevant.
Precisely, weaving is one of the differences between merely performing combat and mastering combat that Brian Wheeler spoke about. Mastery is something the devs want in the game and want to reward.
To the anti-weavers in the thread, the devs actively embraced weaving years ago to the point that it's even a tool tip on the loading screen; it's not going away no matter how many people stomp their feet.
They embraced it because it was a bug they couldn’t fix. A bug that removes its combat so far from the elder scrolls roots that it turns off many players form the game. They finally add other ways to play that make it feel more like an elder scrolls game and those elite players are now attempting to destroy that.
Dungeon / trial mechanics are the difficult parts anyone can weave. It’s a brain dead mechanic of pressing 2 buttons. It’s not that it’s hard it’s that it’s not fun, it’s painful for the disabled, and it’s hard to do when someone has inconsistent ping.
Nobody is trying to "destroy" the builds... it's going to be a like 3% change in damage. The hyperbole is getting out of hand. You will still be able to do all the things you've done before.
Again … have you seen comments people want this play style gone. This is the second nerf to the play style and again it won’t be the last. People are already saying “it needs to be nerfed more”.
There is no “ hyperbole” these are genuine concerns, by many players. The “3 %” change is not the concern the concern is the bowing down to elitists and the constant cries for nerfs that will continue.
For the love of Kyne ZoS is NOT bowing down to "elitists" by nerfing HA builds by 3-5%, they are adjusting HA builds - with a scalpel mind you instead of their normal sledgehammer - based on their own combat vision and data metrics as ZoS stated here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7850463/#Comment_7850463
Since we've started working on Heavy Attack build viability in the past year, we've seen a massive surge in their use, which is absolutely phenomenal for seeing more players being able to participate in end-game content at a much more digestible pace. While we're happy to see these builds being ran, we're seeing these builds inch a little too close to some of the high end builds with how much more simplified they are, and in some rare cases, they're outperforming a standard build. We're cutting down the damage bonus here ever so slightly in hopes that when you have Empower with a bunch of other Heavy Attack bonus sets, the numbers are still nice and juicy, but not as close to a full-on Light Attack build.isadoraisacat wrote: »This is the second nerf to the play style and again it won’t be the last. People are already saying “it needs to be nerfed more”.
You're right it won't be the last nerf to the build, but there will likely be buffs to the build in the future too because that's how MMOs work. I'm really curious, how long have you played ESO, is this your first MMO? I ask because continuous nerfs, buffs, and adjustments are part and parcel of MMOs and other live service games so if outside of ESO you're a single player RPG gamer you might be confused and frustrated at the balancing cycle that multiplayer games go through which doesn't happen in TES games. I've been a Templar main since launch and my class has had so many buffs and nerfs, and outright skill changes and reworks since launch that 2 adjustments to a build in one year is nothing short of remarkable for its stability given how powerful HA and Oakenbuilds are. I'm genuinely surprised there haven't been a larger number of bigger adjustments to these builds over the past year given how powerful they are for their ease as the patch notes above stated.
Yeah no. It’s not about zos its about the attitude of players the calls for nerfs. The nerfing will continue people are already saying “I needs more nerfs” and they will continue to say it. It’s not about the percentage of change it’s about the mindset. But these concept seems to be flying over peoples heads.
The biggest problem with this game is the horrible combat. It keeps so many real elder scrolls
Fans away, so many love the world and the lore who come from the main series but don’t stick around because the combat is weird based on a bug and doesn’t fit the series at all. It’s not fun for many people. HA is an alternative that feels more like a true elder scrolls game and not an esport shooter/ fighting rhythm game.
If Zos patched out animation canceling I mean “weaving” you would be playing combat that is completely different. But they decided to leave in and that’s fine but not everyone wants to do a finger Waltz for a myriad of reasons.
1. It’s not fun
2. It’s not like a real elder scrolls game
3. They have hand issues and disabilities
4. They have inconsistent ping
And many more.
But I’ve said my peace let’s agree to disagree the ball is in zos’s court many paying customers have expressed their concerns on both sides.Edited by isadoraisacat on April 30, 2023 8:02PM3 -
Tradewind✭✭✭✭isadoraisacat wrote: »Yeah no. It’s not about zos its about the attitude of players the calls for nerfs. The nerfing will continue people are already saying “I needs more nerfs” and they will continue to say it. It’s not about the percentage of change it’s about the mindset. But these concept seems to be flying over peoples heads.
The biggest problem with this game is the horrible combat. It keeps so many real elder scrolls
Fans away, so many love the world and the lore who come from the main series but don’t stick around because the combat is weird based on a bug and doesn’t fit the series at all. It’s not fun for many people. HA is an alternative that feels more like a true elder scrolls game and not an esport shooter/ fighting rhythm game.
If Zos patched out animation canceling I mean “weaving” you would be playing combat that is completely different. But they decided to leave in and that’s fine but not everyone wants to do a finger Waltz for a myriad of reasons.
1. It’s not fun
2. It’s not like a real elder scrolls game
3. They have hand issues and disabilities
4. They have inconsistent ping
And many more.
But I’ve said my peace let’s agree to disagree the ball is in zos’s court many paying customers have expressed their concerns on both sides.
This combat system has absolutely nothing to do with Elder Scrolls.
The Elder Scrolls games were never about "The Strongest One" or this kind of competition.
Elder Scrolls is not and never was about this "competetion", and I really hope it never becomes that way.
I totally agree with harder objectives, but almost impossible ones are not the solution. Moreover, the competition without any sense makes even less sense when people can buy rides.
It's ironic that Zenimax wants to create balance and make the game harder for everyone, yet players can simply buy the achievements if they can't complete them.
It's concerning to think that this is the road Elder Scrolls will follow. It can't be.
2 -
ZOS_HadeostrymodGreetings,
After removing some unnecessary back and forth from this thread, we would like everyone to keep posts on the subject at hand, civil, and constructive.
If there may be any questions in regards to the rules, please feel free to review them here.1 -
isadoraisacat✭✭✭✭✭isadoraisacat wrote: »Yeah no. It’s not about zos its about the attitude of players the calls for nerfs. The nerfing will continue people are already saying “I needs more nerfs” and they will continue to say it. It’s not about the percentage of change it’s about the mindset. But these concept seems to be flying over peoples heads.
The biggest problem with this game is the horrible combat. It keeps so many real elder scrolls
Fans away, so many love the world and the lore who come from the main series but don’t stick around because the combat is weird based on a bug and doesn’t fit the series at all. It’s not fun for many people. HA is an alternative that feels more like a true elder scrolls game and not an esport shooter/ fighting rhythm game.
If Zos patched out animation canceling I mean “weaving” you would be playing combat that is completely different. But they decided to leave in and that’s fine but not everyone wants to do a finger Waltz for a myriad of reasons.
1. It’s not fun
2. It’s not like a real elder scrolls game
3. They have hand issues and disabilities
4. They have inconsistent ping
And many more.
But I’ve said my peace let’s agree to disagree the ball is in zos’s court many paying customers have expressed their concerns on both sides.
This combat system has absolutely nothing to do with Elder Scrolls.
The Elder Scrolls games were never about "The Strongest One" or this kind of competition.
Elder Scrolls is not and never was about this "competetion", and I really hope it never becomes that way.
I totally agree with harder objectives, but almost impossible ones are not the solution. Moreover, the competition without any sense makes even less sense when people can buy rides.
It's ironic that Zenimax wants to create balance and make the game harder for everyone, yet players can simply buy the achievements if they can't complete them.
It's concerning to think that this is the road Elder Scrolls will follow. It can't be.
Personally I don’t think Todd Howard’s team will go down this road in terms of combat or any mmo issues. They know we want a single player game.
Once elder scrolls 6 is out this will just be “that spin off game” as of now it’s the only game active with the lore so this is all we have. It does a great job with the lore… but that’s the only thing keep elder scrolls fans here the combat is a deterrent for many players.3 -
colossalvoids✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »Yeah no. It’s not about zos its about the attitude of players the calls for nerfs. The nerfing will continue people are already saying “I needs more nerfs” and they will continue to say it. It’s not about the percentage of change it’s about the mindset. But these concept seems to be flying over peoples heads.
The biggest problem with this game is the horrible combat. It keeps so many real elder scrolls
Fans away, so many love the world and the lore who come from the main series but don’t stick around because the combat is weird based on a bug and doesn’t fit the series at all. It’s not fun for many people. HA is an alternative that feels more like a true elder scrolls game and not an esport shooter/ fighting rhythm game.
If Zos patched out animation canceling I mean “weaving” you would be playing combat that is completely different. But they decided to leave in and that’s fine but not everyone wants to do a finger Waltz for a myriad of reasons.
1. It’s not fun
2. It’s not like a real elder scrolls game
3. They have hand issues and disabilities
4. They have inconsistent ping
And many more.
But I’ve said my peace let’s agree to disagree the ball is in zos’s court many paying customers have expressed their concerns on both sides.
This combat system has absolutely nothing to do with Elder Scrolls.
The Elder Scrolls games were never about "The Strongest One" or this kind of competition.
Elder Scrolls is not and never was about this "competetion", and I really hope it never becomes that way.
I totally agree with harder objectives, but almost impossible ones are not the solution. Moreover, the competition without any sense makes even less sense when people can buy rides.
It's ironic that Zenimax wants to create balance and make the game harder for everyone, yet players can simply buy the achievements if they can't complete them.
It's concerning to think that this is the road Elder Scrolls will follow. It can't be.
Personally I don’t think Todd Howard’s team will go down this road in terms of combat or any mmo issues. They know we want a single player game.
Once elder scrolls 6 is out this will just be “that spin off game” as of now it’s the only game active with the lore so this is all we have. It does a great job with the lore… but that’s the only thing keep elder scrolls fans here the combat is a deterrent for many players.
Can some of you please refrain of talking for all of us tes fans in general in their agenda? Personally think last single player games had no actual "combat system" and delighted we have at least one game since old series with one, just packed more like an arpg rather then your usual mmo and not rolls based as previous titles that had some systems in place like Morrowind.9 -
colossalvoids✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭isadoraisacat wrote: »Yeah no. It’s not about zos its about the attitude of players the calls for nerfs. The nerfing will continue people are already saying “I needs more nerfs” and they will continue to say it. It’s not about the percentage of change it’s about the mindset. But these concept seems to be flying over peoples heads.
The biggest problem with this game is the horrible combat. It keeps so many real elder scrolls
Fans away, so many love the world and the lore who come from the main series but don’t stick around because the combat is weird based on a bug and doesn’t fit the series at all. It’s not fun for many people. HA is an alternative that feels more like a true elder scrolls game and not an esport shooter/ fighting rhythm game.
If Zos patched out animation canceling I mean “weaving” you would be playing combat that is completely different. But they decided to leave in and that’s fine but not everyone wants to do a finger Waltz for a myriad of reasons.
1. It’s not fun
2. It’s not like a real elder scrolls game
3. They have hand issues and disabilities
4. They have inconsistent ping
And many more.
But I’ve said my peace let’s agree to disagree the ball is in zos’s court many paying customers have expressed their concerns on both sides.
This combat system has absolutely nothing to do with Elder Scrolls.
The Elder Scrolls games were never about "The Strongest One" or this kind of competition.
Elder Scrolls is not and never was about this "competetion", and I really hope it never becomes that way.
I totally agree with harder objectives, but almost impossible ones are not the solution. Moreover, the competition without any sense makes even less sense when people can buy rides.
It's ironic that Zenimax wants to create balance and make the game harder for everyone, yet players can simply buy the achievements if they can't complete them.
It's concerning to think that this is the road Elder Scrolls will follow. It can't be.
Tes games were single player, obviously it was never about competition yet some were able to master it way better than others, which is the same here. People have normal difficulty for all of its content and are able to access it freely without any harder difficulty pressure if that's not that thing. You also had modding for all the possible itches, so game is infinitely scalable to be more or less difficult however you like, while online ones generally have sort of balance in mind.
And Zenimax never intended to "make game harder", it's vice versa as they've invested in their "accessibility" options now that are going against any previous balancing and their own spreadsheets that we were experiencing for years, when a lot of fun and variability was balanced out of existence.4 -
CP5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »
Heavy attack won’t be able to clear all content because players of that style are vote kicked and not allowed into combat because for whatever reason people are obsessed with pew pew combat.
This is a player problem... not a game problem.
Changing the fundamental way a game plays (and one that separates this MMO from all the others) because a few people are toxic about it is not a viable solution. Especially when you can easily form your own group that will accept your gameplay.
It may separate it from other MMOs but it also hinders it. Go ahead and Google reasons people don’t like this game 90% of the answers is the combat.
It’s not fun for many people. No one wants to take away weaving we just want to keep our play style.
And yes it’s a player problem… and that elitism won’t change because for whatever reason people want to turn an elder scrolls game into an esport.
While others want to enjoy more traditional combat for various reason. The player elitism certainly is a problem.
A 10% nerf to empower, from 180% damage to 170% (so about a 5% effective change, to a percentage of your damage) isn't going to remove anybody's gameplay. It isn't going to change a thing about what content you can clear (which was everything before... and will still be everything after!)
Unless you are arguing that a 1-button HA build should be able to get the elite end-game trifectas (but you've clearly stated in other threads that is not your motivation)... but then we would be having a completely different discussion, and I'm truly baffled at the outrage over this, when the content creators have tested it on PTS... and shown it's a very minor change, one of the first times ZoS has taken a scalpel to something that was overperforming, rather than nerfing it into oblivion.
A small minority using HA to hit a very rare high score was not going to remove anyone’s enjoyment of the game.
This is the second nerf to this plays style now.
And it won’t be the last, it’s not about the “10 % nerf” it’s about the attitude and elitism that comes with the people begging for nerfs towards this play style. Who will continue to beg for them.
And that “over performing” line is greatly exaggerated there have been tons of tests to show the average 2 bar set up still out performs and this was a rare case and expert already experience high end 2 bar player used 1 bar to hit numbers the average player who is using it will never even come close too.
This is an elder scrolls game first not a fighting / shooter / rhythm game.
Some people want to preserve their choice to use a combat style that is closer to the elder scrolls series and not a button masher for immersion reasons and or because they are disabled and or because they have inconsistent ping.
Gaming should be inclusive instead this excludes people, making a bug that was never patched a defacto way to play in a game in series known for immersive and simple in the moment combat.
It is a player problem… if elitism and unwillingness to accept others in the game enjoy playing differently than them.
It has been shown in other threads how the Oakensoul build has grown in popularity in several areas of the game, and in some, like vAS+2 it has completely drowned out any other build. ZOS has the numbers, they see how strongly the build is preforming, and they do the softest of ZOS nerf's we've ever seen, save for the times ZOS nerfs or buffs something to simply make for round numbers. This is an MMO, people jumping on the heavy attack train are engaging with something that is powerful and prone to being balanced, it's what happens.
ZOS has the data on the builds' usage, they see it is doing better than they expected, and how it is causing other build options to actually suffer, so like every single other build in the entirety of ESO's 9 years, it is being adjusted. And again, by one of the smallest and most careful nerfs I can remember having ever seen. The build is still as survivable as before, still has the range it had before, still has the sustain it had before, and got a light slap on the wrist in terms of damage, this 'end of the world' reaction and the placing of blame is where the conflict is coming from.
I've not touched the game outside of running dungeons with friends for the past few months, I see the uproar on the forums and then people who are good at running numbers show how mild the changes will be, and if you aren't willing to accept the reality that in a MMO, balance patches happen, then I will just tell you in advance they will continue to come, not because some malicious group of players wants to ruin your fun, but because balance passes happen as the state of the game changes to ensure that no one build overshadows everything else, and that the ability sandbox doesn't become stale.1 -
isadoraisacat✭✭✭✭✭colossalvoids wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »Yeah no. It’s not about zos its about the attitude of players the calls for nerfs. The nerfing will continue people are already saying “I needs more nerfs” and they will continue to say it. It’s not about the percentage of change it’s about the mindset. But these concept seems to be flying over peoples heads.
The biggest problem with this game is the horrible combat. It keeps so many real elder scrolls
Fans away, so many love the world and the lore who come from the main series but don’t stick around because the combat is weird based on a bug and doesn’t fit the series at all. It’s not fun for many people. HA is an alternative that feels more like a true elder scrolls game and not an esport shooter/ fighting rhythm game.
If Zos patched out animation canceling I mean “weaving” you would be playing combat that is completely different. But they decided to leave in and that’s fine but not everyone wants to do a finger Waltz for a myriad of reasons.
1. It’s not fun
2. It’s not like a real elder scrolls game
3. They have hand issues and disabilities
4. They have inconsistent ping
And many more.
But I’ve said my peace let’s agree to disagree the ball is in zos’s court many paying customers have expressed their concerns on both sides.
This combat system has absolutely nothing to do with Elder Scrolls.
The Elder Scrolls games were never about "The Strongest One" or this kind of competition.
Elder Scrolls is not and never was about this "competetion", and I really hope it never becomes that way.
I totally agree with harder objectives, but almost impossible ones are not the solution. Moreover, the competition without any sense makes even less sense when people can buy rides.
It's ironic that Zenimax wants to create balance and make the game harder for everyone, yet players can simply buy the achievements if they can't complete them.
It's concerning to think that this is the road Elder Scrolls will follow. It can't be.
Personally I don’t think Todd Howard’s team will go down this road in terms of combat or any mmo issues. They know we want a single player game.
Once elder scrolls 6 is out this will just be “that spin off game” as of now it’s the only game active with the lore so this is all we have. It does a great job with the lore… but that’s the only thing keep elder scrolls fans here the combat is a deterrent for many players.
Can some of you please refrain of talking for all of us tes fans in general in their agenda? Personally think last single player games had no actual "combat system" and delighted we have at least one game since old series with one, just packed more like an arpg rather then your usual mmo and not rolls based as previous titles that had some systems in place like Morrowind.
You can just say me since you are directing this to me. There is no “agenda” i am sharing my opinion. And this has been a common complaint of many elder scrolls fans. Rhythm combat is not something that is present in the main series. The “combat system” is based on a literal bug. Many people are not happy with the combat. Hence why many uses heavy attack builds it makes it more fun not everyone wants to do a finger waltz.
4 -
Shagreth✭✭✭✭✭
✭I hate it, despite being good at it. But unfortunately it's here to stay, zeni just doesn't have the courage to go ahead and finally fix what used to be an engine bug.4 -
Browiseth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭i think weaving is great
and i take solace in the fact that it's not going anywhere, [snip]
besides that one mythic that's coming out, though i highly doubt it will replace oakensoul as the preferred mythic for unskilled players
[edited for bashing]Edited by ZOS_Icy on May 1, 2023 10:07AMskingrad when zoscharacters:PC/NA but live in EU 150+ ping lyfe- EP - M - Strikes-with-Arcane - Argonian Stamina Sorc - lvl 50 - The Flawless Conqueror/Spirit Slayer
- EP - F - Melina Elinia - Dunmer Magicka Dragonknight - lvl 50
- EP - F - Sinnia Lavellan - Altmer Warden Healer - lvl 50
- EP - M - Follows-the-Arcane - Argonian Healer Sorcerer- lvl 50
- EP - F - Ashes-of-Arcane - Argonian Magicka Necromancer - lvl 50
- EP - M - Bolgrog the Sinh - Orc Stamina Dragonknight - lvl 50
- EP - F - Moonlight Maiden - Altmer Magicka Templar - lvl 50
- EP - F - Maxine Cauline - Breton Magicka Nightblade - lvl 50
- EP - M - Garrus Loridius - Imperial Stamina Templar - lvl 50
- EP - F - Jennifer Loridius - Imperial Necromancer tank - lvl 50
2 -
isadoraisacat✭✭✭✭✭I hate it, despite being good at it. But unfortunately it's here to stay, zeni just doesn't have the courage to go ahead and finally fix what used to be an engine bug.
They should have ripped off that bandaid years ago, when the game was young. I assume they simply couldn’t figure out how to fix it so they embraced it.
They should have went with combat like Skyrim… the game would have been way more popular across the board with that style of combat it also fits the series better too than guitar hero combat.1 -
colossalvoids✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭isadoraisacat wrote: »colossalvoids wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »Yeah no. It’s not about zos its about the attitude of players the calls for nerfs. The nerfing will continue people are already saying “I needs more nerfs” and they will continue to say it. It’s not about the percentage of change it’s about the mindset. But these concept seems to be flying over peoples heads.
The biggest problem with this game is the horrible combat. It keeps so many real elder scrolls
Fans away, so many love the world and the lore who come from the main series but don’t stick around because the combat is weird based on a bug and doesn’t fit the series at all. It’s not fun for many people. HA is an alternative that feels more like a true elder scrolls game and not an esport shooter/ fighting rhythm game.
If Zos patched out animation canceling I mean “weaving” you would be playing combat that is completely different. But they decided to leave in and that’s fine but not everyone wants to do a finger Waltz for a myriad of reasons.
1. It’s not fun
2. It’s not like a real elder scrolls game
3. They have hand issues and disabilities
4. They have inconsistent ping
And many more.
But I’ve said my peace let’s agree to disagree the ball is in zos’s court many paying customers have expressed their concerns on both sides.
This combat system has absolutely nothing to do with Elder Scrolls.
The Elder Scrolls games were never about "The Strongest One" or this kind of competition.
Elder Scrolls is not and never was about this "competetion", and I really hope it never becomes that way.
I totally agree with harder objectives, but almost impossible ones are not the solution. Moreover, the competition without any sense makes even less sense when people can buy rides.
It's ironic that Zenimax wants to create balance and make the game harder for everyone, yet players can simply buy the achievements if they can't complete them.
It's concerning to think that this is the road Elder Scrolls will follow. It can't be.
Personally I don’t think Todd Howard’s team will go down this road in terms of combat or any mmo issues. They know we want a single player game.
Once elder scrolls 6 is out this will just be “that spin off game” as of now it’s the only game active with the lore so this is all we have. It does a great job with the lore… but that’s the only thing keep elder scrolls fans here the combat is a deterrent for many players.
Can some of you please refrain of talking for all of us tes fans in general in their agenda? Personally think last single player games had no actual "combat system" and delighted we have at least one game since old series with one, just packed more like an arpg rather then your usual mmo and not rolls based as previous titles that had some systems in place like Morrowind.
You can just say me since you are directing this to me. There is no “agenda” i am sharing my opinion. And this has been a common complaint of many elder scrolls fans. Rhythm combat is not something that is present in the main series. The “combat system” is based on a literal bug. Many people are not happy with the combat. Hence why many uses heavy attack builds it makes it more fun not everyone wants to do a finger waltz.
You're not the only person recently and surely won't be the last one here on a "tes fans" train. Glad you see those are just opinions, like complaints and "bug" parts surely are. Many aren't happy and many are, same as with any other parts of the game. It doesn't even matter if we like something or not if that's something zeni committed to.4 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »Weaving requires 1 mouse click and 1 skill button click per second. That's 120 "clicks" per minute. After playing brass instruments at a high level for a decade plus, it's quite slow, and far fewer clicks, just have to stay on rhythm.
Some people don’t like rhythm games.
I’ve been playing guitar and bass In bands since the 90s, playing an instrument creates something this is just mindless clicking, in a game series that should be more immersive with more realistic combat.
Some people have bad ping / and or disabilities which makes playing non musical guitar hero not possible.
Some times people just want to cast spells and role play in a role playing game and not play medieval fantasy guitar hero.
In reality the button clicking in every MMORPG is mindless clicking. It serves no real purpose.
In ESO, no one has to weave. It is a choice. If the player has the basics down they will do good DPS without weaving and be able to get into most raid groups. Sure, weaving will bump their DPS up a measure but if they do not have those basics down it becomes irrelevant.
It really isn’t a choice when that’s the only way to hit the highest dps. This is an elder scrolls game they could have used a more elder scrolls Style of combat but instead they went with this. Many don’t like it.
It does not become irrelevant it becomes relevant when they can’t do parts of the game because they get vote kicked from a dungeon for not doing the proper dps or made fun of by arrogant players.
Few players reach the highest dps to start with as most are not willing to put in the time to refine their rotation. Most lack the basics that are the most significant portion damage for a top dps player.
If a player lacks the basics they will not be saved by light weaving. No content in the game requires weaving to clear with ease.
Also, if a player is a solid DD but doesn’t weave no group will vote kick them as they would be carrying a GF group. One would wonder what such a player would be doing with random players as they could easily find decent guilds to be part of and have far superior experiences than what the GF groups will provide.
Not true. I’ve been vote kicked in a vet group for using heavy attack and I was doing more dps than the dps who vote kicked me. So that is not true.isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »Weaving requires 1 mouse click and 1 skill button click per second. That's 120 "clicks" per minute. After playing brass instruments at a high level for a decade plus, it's quite slow, and far fewer clicks, just have to stay on rhythm.
Some people don’t like rhythm games.
I’ve been playing guitar and bass In bands since the 90s, playing an instrument creates something this is just mindless clicking, in a game series that should be more immersive with more realistic combat.
Some people have bad ping / and or disabilities which makes playing non musical guitar hero not possible.
Some times people just want to cast spells and role play in a role playing game and not play medieval fantasy guitar hero.
In reality the button clicking in every MMORPG is mindless clicking. It serves no real purpose.
In ESO, no one has to weave. It is a choice. If the player has the basics down they will do good DPS without weaving and be able to get into most raid groups. Sure, weaving will bump their DPS up a measure but if they do not have those basics down it becomes irrelevant.
It really isn’t a choice when that’s the only way to hit the highest dps. This is an elder scrolls game they could have used a more elder scrolls Style of combat but instead they went with this. Many don’t like it.
It does not become irrelevant it becomes relevant when they can’t do parts of the game because they get vote kicked from a dungeon for not doing the proper dps or made fun of by arrogant players.
Few players reach the highest dps to start with as most are not willing to put in the time to refine their rotation. Most lack the basics that are the most significant portion damage for a top dps player.
If a player lacks the basics they will not be saved by light weaving. No content in the game requires weaving to clear with ease.
Also, if a player is a solid DD but doesn’t weave no group will vote kick them as they would be carrying a GF group. One would wonder what such a player would be doing with random players as they could easily find decent guilds to be part of and have far superior experiences than what the GF groups will provide.
Not true. I’ve been vote kicked in a vet group for using heavy attack and I was doing more dps than the dps who vote kicked me. So that is not true.
There are people who do not understand how the game works and when running with a RANDOM group, especially a GF group, it is more likely one will find themselves with such a group. When asking for a random group one is asking for a random group and often gets exactly what they ask for.
This beckons to my last paragraph as to why you bother with random groups and not run with your guild. Running with guildies leads to a far superior experience than the GF provides.
After noting such poor experiences I was having with GF, low DPS, and failures to follow mechanics, my guild explained it was because I was running with GF groups and that I should run with guildies only. Never had a problem since.
5 -
KiltMaster✭✭✭✭I like that using weaving can help me eek out more DPS even though I have *** internet so *shrugs*PC/NA
GM of "Kilts for Sale"
twitch.tv/thekiltmaster
He/Him1 -
isadoraisacat✭✭✭✭✭isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »Weaving requires 1 mouse click and 1 skill button click per second. That's 120 "clicks" per minute. After playing brass instruments at a high level for a decade plus, it's quite slow, and far fewer clicks, just have to stay on rhythm.
Some people don’t like rhythm games.
I’ve been playing guitar and bass In bands since the 90s, playing an instrument creates something this is just mindless clicking, in a game series that should be more immersive with more realistic combat.
Some people have bad ping / and or disabilities which makes playing non musical guitar hero not possible.
Some times people just want to cast spells and role play in a role playing game and not play medieval fantasy guitar hero.
In reality the button clicking in every MMORPG is mindless clicking. It serves no real purpose.
In ESO, no one has to weave. It is a choice. If the player has the basics down they will do good DPS without weaving and be able to get into most raid groups. Sure, weaving will bump their DPS up a measure but if they do not have those basics down it becomes irrelevant.
It really isn’t a choice when that’s the only way to hit the highest dps. This is an elder scrolls game they could have used a more elder scrolls Style of combat but instead they went with this. Many don’t like it.
It does not become irrelevant it becomes relevant when they can’t do parts of the game because they get vote kicked from a dungeon for not doing the proper dps or made fun of by arrogant players.
Few players reach the highest dps to start with as most are not willing to put in the time to refine their rotation. Most lack the basics that are the most significant portion damage for a top dps player.
If a player lacks the basics they will not be saved by light weaving. No content in the game requires weaving to clear with ease.
Also, if a player is a solid DD but doesn’t weave no group will vote kick them as they would be carrying a GF group. One would wonder what such a player would be doing with random players as they could easily find decent guilds to be part of and have far superior experiences than what the GF groups will provide.
Not true. I’ve been vote kicked in a vet group for using heavy attack and I was doing more dps than the dps who vote kicked me. So that is not true.isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »Weaving requires 1 mouse click and 1 skill button click per second. That's 120 "clicks" per minute. After playing brass instruments at a high level for a decade plus, it's quite slow, and far fewer clicks, just have to stay on rhythm.
Some people don’t like rhythm games.
I’ve been playing guitar and bass In bands since the 90s, playing an instrument creates something this is just mindless clicking, in a game series that should be more immersive with more realistic combat.
Some people have bad ping / and or disabilities which makes playing non musical guitar hero not possible.
Some times people just want to cast spells and role play in a role playing game and not play medieval fantasy guitar hero.
In reality the button clicking in every MMORPG is mindless clicking. It serves no real purpose.
In ESO, no one has to weave. It is a choice. If the player has the basics down they will do good DPS without weaving and be able to get into most raid groups. Sure, weaving will bump their DPS up a measure but if they do not have those basics down it becomes irrelevant.
It really isn’t a choice when that’s the only way to hit the highest dps. This is an elder scrolls game they could have used a more elder scrolls Style of combat but instead they went with this. Many don’t like it.
It does not become irrelevant it becomes relevant when they can’t do parts of the game because they get vote kicked from a dungeon for not doing the proper dps or made fun of by arrogant players.
Few players reach the highest dps to start with as most are not willing to put in the time to refine their rotation. Most lack the basics that are the most significant portion damage for a top dps player.
If a player lacks the basics they will not be saved by light weaving. No content in the game requires weaving to clear with ease.
Also, if a player is a solid DD but doesn’t weave no group will vote kick them as they would be carrying a GF group. One would wonder what such a player would be doing with random players as they could easily find decent guilds to be part of and have far superior experiences than what the GF groups will provide.
Not true. I’ve been vote kicked in a vet group for using heavy attack and I was doing more dps than the dps who vote kicked me. So that is not true.
There are people who do not understand how the game works and when running with a RANDOM group, especially a GF group, it is more likely one will find themselves with such a group. When asking for a random group one is asking for a random group and often gets exactly what they ask for.
This beckons to my last paragraph as to why you bother with random groups and not run with your guild. Running with guildies leads to a far superior experience than the GF provides.
After noting such poor experiences I was having with GF, low DPS, and failures to follow mechanics, my guild explained it was because I was running with GF groups and that I should run with guildies only. Never had a problem since.
“Does anyone want to help with pledges today” in guild chat.
Guild “sound of crickets”
Maybe that’s why ?5 -
isadoraisacat✭✭✭✭✭colossalvoids wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »colossalvoids wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »Yeah no. It’s not about zos its about the attitude of players the calls for nerfs. The nerfing will continue people are already saying “I needs more nerfs” and they will continue to say it. It’s not about the percentage of change it’s about the mindset. But these concept seems to be flying over peoples heads.
The biggest problem with this game is the horrible combat. It keeps so many real elder scrolls
Fans away, so many love the world and the lore who come from the main series but don’t stick around because the combat is weird based on a bug and doesn’t fit the series at all. It’s not fun for many people. HA is an alternative that feels more like a true elder scrolls game and not an esport shooter/ fighting rhythm game.
If Zos patched out animation canceling I mean “weaving” you would be playing combat that is completely different. But they decided to leave in and that’s fine but not everyone wants to do a finger Waltz for a myriad of reasons.
1. It’s not fun
2. It’s not like a real elder scrolls game
3. They have hand issues and disabilities
4. They have inconsistent ping
And many more.
But I’ve said my peace let’s agree to disagree the ball is in zos’s court many paying customers have expressed their concerns on both sides.
This combat system has absolutely nothing to do with Elder Scrolls.
The Elder Scrolls games were never about "The Strongest One" or this kind of competition.
Elder Scrolls is not and never was about this "competetion", and I really hope it never becomes that way.
I totally agree with harder objectives, but almost impossible ones are not the solution. Moreover, the competition without any sense makes even less sense when people can buy rides.
It's ironic that Zenimax wants to create balance and make the game harder for everyone, yet players can simply buy the achievements if they can't complete them.
It's concerning to think that this is the road Elder Scrolls will follow. It can't be.
Personally I don’t think Todd Howard’s team will go down this road in terms of combat or any mmo issues. They know we want a single player game.
Once elder scrolls 6 is out this will just be “that spin off game” as of now it’s the only game active with the lore so this is all we have. It does a great job with the lore… but that’s the only thing keep elder scrolls fans here the combat is a deterrent for many players.
Can some of you please refrain of talking for all of us tes fans in general in their agenda? Personally think last single player games had no actual "combat system" and delighted we have at least one game since old series with one, just packed more like an arpg rather then your usual mmo and not rolls based as previous titles that had some systems in place like Morrowind.
You can just say me since you are directing this to me. There is no “agenda” i am sharing my opinion. And this has been a common complaint of many elder scrolls fans. Rhythm combat is not something that is present in the main series. The “combat system” is based on a literal bug. Many people are not happy with the combat. Hence why many uses heavy attack builds it makes it more fun not everyone wants to do a finger waltz.
You're not the only person recently and surely won't be the last one here on a "tes fans" train. Glad you see those are just opinions, like complaints and "bug" parts surely are. Many aren't happy and many are, same as with any other parts of the game. It doesn't even matter if we like something or not if that's something zeni committed to.
Not sure why you put “tes fans” in quotes.
In a die hard elder scrolls fan, Been playing since Daggerfall.
Go Google it many of the complaints from the elder scrolls sub Reddit and even on the eso sub Reddit is the combat. It’s not fun for many people and it belongs in a shooter or fighting or rhythm game
And not an action rpg. Not everyone wants to do a little dance with their fingers.
It does matter what we like or don’t like we are paid customers I’ve spent thousands of dollars on this game I have every right to voice my opinion about a product I pay for. <snip>
<snipped for baiting>Edited by ZOS_Hadeostry on May 1, 2023 7:42PM3 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »Weaving requires 1 mouse click and 1 skill button click per second. That's 120 "clicks" per minute. After playing brass instruments at a high level for a decade plus, it's quite slow, and far fewer clicks, just have to stay on rhythm.
Some people don’t like rhythm games.
I’ve been playing guitar and bass In bands since the 90s, playing an instrument creates something this is just mindless clicking, in a game series that should be more immersive with more realistic combat.
Some people have bad ping / and or disabilities which makes playing non musical guitar hero not possible.
Some times people just want to cast spells and role play in a role playing game and not play medieval fantasy guitar hero.
In reality the button clicking in every MMORPG is mindless clicking. It serves no real purpose.
In ESO, no one has to weave. It is a choice. If the player has the basics down they will do good DPS without weaving and be able to get into most raid groups. Sure, weaving will bump their DPS up a measure but if they do not have those basics down it becomes irrelevant.
It really isn’t a choice when that’s the only way to hit the highest dps. This is an elder scrolls game they could have used a more elder scrolls Style of combat but instead they went with this. Many don’t like it.
It does not become irrelevant it becomes relevant when they can’t do parts of the game because they get vote kicked from a dungeon for not doing the proper dps or made fun of by arrogant players.
Few players reach the highest dps to start with as most are not willing to put in the time to refine their rotation. Most lack the basics that are the most significant portion damage for a top dps player.
If a player lacks the basics they will not be saved by light weaving. No content in the game requires weaving to clear with ease.
Also, if a player is a solid DD but doesn’t weave no group will vote kick them as they would be carrying a GF group. One would wonder what such a player would be doing with random players as they could easily find decent guilds to be part of and have far superior experiences than what the GF groups will provide.
Not true. I’ve been vote kicked in a vet group for using heavy attack and I was doing more dps than the dps who vote kicked me. So that is not true.isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »Weaving requires 1 mouse click and 1 skill button click per second. That's 120 "clicks" per minute. After playing brass instruments at a high level for a decade plus, it's quite slow, and far fewer clicks, just have to stay on rhythm.
Some people don’t like rhythm games.
I’ve been playing guitar and bass In bands since the 90s, playing an instrument creates something this is just mindless clicking, in a game series that should be more immersive with more realistic combat.
Some people have bad ping / and or disabilities which makes playing non musical guitar hero not possible.
Some times people just want to cast spells and role play in a role playing game and not play medieval fantasy guitar hero.
In reality the button clicking in every MMORPG is mindless clicking. It serves no real purpose.
In ESO, no one has to weave. It is a choice. If the player has the basics down they will do good DPS without weaving and be able to get into most raid groups. Sure, weaving will bump their DPS up a measure but if they do not have those basics down it becomes irrelevant.
It really isn’t a choice when that’s the only way to hit the highest dps. This is an elder scrolls game they could have used a more elder scrolls Style of combat but instead they went with this. Many don’t like it.
It does not become irrelevant it becomes relevant when they can’t do parts of the game because they get vote kicked from a dungeon for not doing the proper dps or made fun of by arrogant players.
Few players reach the highest dps to start with as most are not willing to put in the time to refine their rotation. Most lack the basics that are the most significant portion damage for a top dps player.
If a player lacks the basics they will not be saved by light weaving. No content in the game requires weaving to clear with ease.
Also, if a player is a solid DD but doesn’t weave no group will vote kick them as they would be carrying a GF group. One would wonder what such a player would be doing with random players as they could easily find decent guilds to be part of and have far superior experiences than what the GF groups will provide.
Not true. I’ve been vote kicked in a vet group for using heavy attack and I was doing more dps than the dps who vote kicked me. So that is not true.
There are people who do not understand how the game works and when running with a RANDOM group, especially a GF group, it is more likely one will find themselves with such a group. When asking for a random group one is asking for a random group and often gets exactly what they ask for.
This beckons to my last paragraph as to why you bother with random groups and not run with your guild. Running with guildies leads to a far superior experience than the GF provides.
After noting such poor experiences I was having with GF, low DPS, and failures to follow mechanics, my guild explained it was because I was running with GF groups and that I should run with guildies only. Never had a problem since.
“Does anyone want to help with pledges today” in guild chat.
Guild “sound of crickets”
Maybe that’s why ?
I get it. I have been in some guilds that were not well managed which resulted in a membership that wasn’t very active.
I suggest finding a guild that meets your needs, that has players active in playing the PvE aspect of the game.
I have seen proof it works in several guilds that I am in.
1 -
isadoraisacat✭✭✭✭✭isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »Weaving requires 1 mouse click and 1 skill button click per second. That's 120 "clicks" per minute. After playing brass instruments at a high level for a decade plus, it's quite slow, and far fewer clicks, just have to stay on rhythm.
Some people don’t like rhythm games.
I’ve been playing guitar and bass In bands since the 90s, playing an instrument creates something this is just mindless clicking, in a game series that should be more immersive with more realistic combat.
Some people have bad ping / and or disabilities which makes playing non musical guitar hero not possible.
Some times people just want to cast spells and role play in a role playing game and not play medieval fantasy guitar hero.
In reality the button clicking in every MMORPG is mindless clicking. It serves no real purpose.
In ESO, no one has to weave. It is a choice. If the player has the basics down they will do good DPS without weaving and be able to get into most raid groups. Sure, weaving will bump their DPS up a measure but if they do not have those basics down it becomes irrelevant.
It really isn’t a choice when that’s the only way to hit the highest dps. This is an elder scrolls game they could have used a more elder scrolls Style of combat but instead they went with this. Many don’t like it.
It does not become irrelevant it becomes relevant when they can’t do parts of the game because they get vote kicked from a dungeon for not doing the proper dps or made fun of by arrogant players.
Few players reach the highest dps to start with as most are not willing to put in the time to refine their rotation. Most lack the basics that are the most significant portion damage for a top dps player.
If a player lacks the basics they will not be saved by light weaving. No content in the game requires weaving to clear with ease.
Also, if a player is a solid DD but doesn’t weave no group will vote kick them as they would be carrying a GF group. One would wonder what such a player would be doing with random players as they could easily find decent guilds to be part of and have far superior experiences than what the GF groups will provide.
Not true. I’ve been vote kicked in a vet group for using heavy attack and I was doing more dps than the dps who vote kicked me. So that is not true.isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »Weaving requires 1 mouse click and 1 skill button click per second. That's 120 "clicks" per minute. After playing brass instruments at a high level for a decade plus, it's quite slow, and far fewer clicks, just have to stay on rhythm.
Some people don’t like rhythm games.
I’ve been playing guitar and bass In bands since the 90s, playing an instrument creates something this is just mindless clicking, in a game series that should be more immersive with more realistic combat.
Some people have bad ping / and or disabilities which makes playing non musical guitar hero not possible.
Some times people just want to cast spells and role play in a role playing game and not play medieval fantasy guitar hero.
In reality the button clicking in every MMORPG is mindless clicking. It serves no real purpose.
In ESO, no one has to weave. It is a choice. If the player has the basics down they will do good DPS without weaving and be able to get into most raid groups. Sure, weaving will bump their DPS up a measure but if they do not have those basics down it becomes irrelevant.
It really isn’t a choice when that’s the only way to hit the highest dps. This is an elder scrolls game they could have used a more elder scrolls Style of combat but instead they went with this. Many don’t like it.
It does not become irrelevant it becomes relevant when they can’t do parts of the game because they get vote kicked from a dungeon for not doing the proper dps or made fun of by arrogant players.
Few players reach the highest dps to start with as most are not willing to put in the time to refine their rotation. Most lack the basics that are the most significant portion damage for a top dps player.
If a player lacks the basics they will not be saved by light weaving. No content in the game requires weaving to clear with ease.
Also, if a player is a solid DD but doesn’t weave no group will vote kick them as they would be carrying a GF group. One would wonder what such a player would be doing with random players as they could easily find decent guilds to be part of and have far superior experiences than what the GF groups will provide.
Not true. I’ve been vote kicked in a vet group for using heavy attack and I was doing more dps than the dps who vote kicked me. So that is not true.
There are people who do not understand how the game works and when running with a RANDOM group, especially a GF group, it is more likely one will find themselves with such a group. When asking for a random group one is asking for a random group and often gets exactly what they ask for.
This beckons to my last paragraph as to why you bother with random groups and not run with your guild. Running with guildies leads to a far superior experience than the GF provides.
After noting such poor experiences I was having with GF, low DPS, and failures to follow mechanics, my guild explained it was because I was running with GF groups and that I should run with guildies only. Never had a problem since.
“Does anyone want to help with pledges today” in guild chat.
Guild “sound of crickets”
Maybe that’s why ?
I get it. I have been in some guilds that were not well managed which resulted in a membership that wasn’t very active.
I suggest finding a guild that meets your needs, that has players active in playing the PvE aspect of the game.
I have seen proof it works in several guilds that I am in.
I have a guild where I chat and talk with many members the issue is. Each person lives in a different time zone or area it’s not easy to get together.
Than the other 2 I’m in… those people simply just don’t answer.
I can’t depend on guilds to run daily dungeons. I’m doing them for transmute crystals, not because I enjoy them. However when i do run them with the one guild I’m most friendly in we do it for fun. But that happens rarely due to being on different schedules.1 -
Jammy420✭✭✭✭✭
✭isadoraisacat wrote: »RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »I play using only one hand, and my old fingers are a bit slow anyway. So, significantly reduced APM.
I can do weaving with no difficulty. My keyboard is set up so it's just a finger and thumb combo. Oakensoul has been a blessing for me, higher DPS and no buffs or bar swaps taking up precious key strokes. Soloing World Bosses is back on the agenda
Where I do lose out is with mobility. Apart from the occasional dodge roll, I face tank everything, just standing still. Doesn't work so well in PvP, LOL
As a disabled person I can say without doubt that taking weaving away would do serious damage to my play.
You will
Never have to worry about them taking away weaving. It’s the alternatives to weaving we have to worry about them taking away.
People should learn to play the game , regardless of the hurdles, if they love the game. The game should not be changed completely to accomodate people who do not want to practice. The person you quoted gets it. If people can play street fighter tournaments without arms, people can weave here, there are so many different accessibility keyboards, mice and controllers, there is 0 reason for making it easier.4
