Let's talk about weaving

tmbrinks

Weaving requires 1 mouse click and 1 skill button click per second. That's 120 "clicks" per minute. After playing brass instruments at a high level for a decade plus, it's quite slow, and far fewer clicks, just have to stay on rhythm.

Northwold

Is it possible to merge the threads with the existing poll thread linked above? Seems a shame to kill this one but the one with the poll already has a HUGE amount of discussion on the same subject plus the poll results themselves, making it more informative. It was still active.

endgamesmug

Im on 15 to 40fps and 250 ping on wifi in nz on minimum settings! Im doing all the things wrong! 😂i cant afford a better pc yet im saving still but i still enjoy all i can despite it all 😀

isadoraisacat

tmbrinks wrote: »

Weaving requires 1 mouse click and 1 skill button click per second. That's 120 "clicks" per minute. After playing brass instruments at a high level for a decade plus, it's quite slow, and far fewer clicks, just have to stay on rhythm.

Some people don’t like rhythm games.
I’ve been playing guitar and bass In bands since the 90s, playing an instrument creates something this is just mindless clicking, in a game series that should be more immersive with more realistic combat.

Some people have bad ping / and or disabilities which makes playing non musical guitar hero not possible.

Some times people just want to cast spells and role play in a role playing game and not play medieval fantasy guitar hero.

Amottica

isadoraisacat wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Weaving requires 1 mouse click and 1 skill button click per second. That's 120 "clicks" per minute. After playing brass instruments at a high level for a decade plus, it's quite slow, and far fewer clicks, just have to stay on rhythm.

Some people don’t like rhythm games.
I’ve been playing guitar and bass In bands since the 90s, playing an instrument creates something this is just mindless clicking, in a game series that should be more immersive with more realistic combat.

Some people have bad ping / and or disabilities which makes playing non musical guitar hero not possible.

Some times people just want to cast spells and role play in a role playing game and not play medieval fantasy guitar hero.

In reality the button clicking in every MMORPG is mindless clicking. It serves no real purpose.

In ESO, no one has to weave. It is a choice. If the player has the basics down they will do good DPS without weaving and be able to get into most raid groups. Sure, weaving will bump their DPS up a measure but if they do not have those basics down it becomes irrelevant.

tmbrinks

isadoraisacat wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Weaving requires 1 mouse click and 1 skill button click per second. That's 120 "clicks" per minute. After playing brass instruments at a high level for a decade plus, it's quite slow, and far fewer clicks, just have to stay on rhythm.

Some people don’t like rhythm games.
I’ve been playing guitar and bass In bands since the 90s, playing an instrument creates something this is just mindless clicking, in a game series that should be more immersive with more realistic combat.

Some people have bad ping / and or disabilities which makes playing non musical guitar hero not possible.

Some times people just want to cast spells and role play in a role playing game and not play medieval fantasy guitar hero.

And a no light attack, all heavy attack build can clear all content in the game.

Not at every difficulty level, but all content, easily. Not everybody can clear guitar hero on expert, but it's accessible to everybody on easy and medium modes, so everybody gets to enjoy the content still. ESO is no different.

I really don't understand the trying to remove a playstyle that is optional... other than at the absolute end-game fringes of the game such as new content trifectas and score pushing.

RaddlemanNumber7

I play using only one hand, and my old fingers are a bit slow anyway. So, significantly reduced APM.

I can do weaving with no difficulty. My keyboard is set up so it's just a finger and thumb combo. Oakensoul has been a blessing for me, higher DPS and no buffs or bar swaps taking up precious key strokes. Soloing World Bosses is back on the agenda

Where I do lose out is with mobility. Apart from the occasional dodge roll, I face tank everything, just standing still. Doesn't work so well in PvP, LOL

As a disabled person I can say without doubt that taking weaving away would do serious damage to my play.

isadoraisacat

Amottica wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Weaving requires 1 mouse click and 1 skill button click per second. That's 120 "clicks" per minute. After playing brass instruments at a high level for a decade plus, it's quite slow, and far fewer clicks, just have to stay on rhythm.

Some people don’t like rhythm games.
I’ve been playing guitar and bass In bands since the 90s, playing an instrument creates something this is just mindless clicking, in a game series that should be more immersive with more realistic combat.

Some people have bad ping / and or disabilities which makes playing non musical guitar hero not possible.

Some times people just want to cast spells and role play in a role playing game and not play medieval fantasy guitar hero.

In reality the button clicking in every MMORPG is mindless clicking. It serves no real purpose.

In ESO, no one has to weave. It is a choice. If the player has the basics down they will do good DPS without weaving and be able to get into most raid groups. Sure, weaving will bump their DPS up a measure but if they do not have those basics down it becomes irrelevant.

It really isn’t a choice when that’s the only way to hit the highest dps. This is an elder scrolls game they could have used a more elder scrolls Style of combat but instead they went with this. Many don’t like it.

It does not become irrelevant it becomes relevant when they can’t do parts of the game because they get vote kicked from a dungeon for not doing the proper dps or made fun of by arrogant players.

isadoraisacat

RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

I play using only one hand, and my old fingers are a bit slow anyway. So, significantly reduced APM.

I can do weaving with no difficulty. My keyboard is set up so it's just a finger and thumb combo. Oakensoul has been a blessing for me, higher DPS and no buffs or bar swaps taking up precious key strokes. Soloing World Bosses is back on the agenda

Where I do lose out is with mobility. Apart from the occasional dodge roll, I face tank everything, just standing still. Doesn't work so well in PvP, LOL

As a disabled person I can say without doubt that taking weaving away would do serious damage to my play.

You will
Never have to worry about them taking away weaving. It’s the alternatives to weaving we have to worry about them taking away.

isadoraisacat

tmbrinks wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Weaving requires 1 mouse click and 1 skill button click per second. That's 120 "clicks" per minute. After playing brass instruments at a high level for a decade plus, it's quite slow, and far fewer clicks, just have to stay on rhythm.

Some people don’t like rhythm games.
I’ve been playing guitar and bass In bands since the 90s, playing an instrument creates something this is just mindless clicking, in a game series that should be more immersive with more realistic combat.

Some people have bad ping / and or disabilities which makes playing non musical guitar hero not possible.

Some times people just want to cast spells and role play in a role playing game and not play medieval fantasy guitar hero.

And a no light attack, all heavy attack build can clear all content in the game.

Not at every difficulty level, but all content, easily. Not everybody can clear guitar hero on expert, but it's accessible to everybody on easy and medium modes, so everybody gets to enjoy the content still. ESO is no different.

I really don't understand the trying to remove a playstyle that is optional... other than at the absolute end-game fringes of the game such as new content trifectas and score pushing.

My point isn’t that people can clear hard games on guitar hero. My point is rhythm combat does not fit the elder scrolls as a game. Many people don’t like it as it feels like a shooter / fighting button masher like mortal combat mixed with guitar hero. The combat is not fun… this is not an esport it’s an elder scrolls game.

Heavy attack won’t be able to clear all content because players of that style are vote kicked and not allowed into combat because for whatever reason people are obsessed with pew pew combat.

tmbrinks

isadoraisacat wrote: »

Heavy attack won’t be able to clear all content because players of that style are vote kicked and not allowed into combat because for whatever reason people are obsessed with pew pew combat.

This is a player problem... not a game problem.

Changing the fundamental way a game plays (and one that separates this MMO from all the others) because a few people are toxic about it is not a viable solution. Especially when you can easily form your own group that will accept your gameplay.

isadoraisacat

tmbrinks wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

Heavy attack won’t be able to clear all content because players of that style are vote kicked and not allowed into combat because for whatever reason people are obsessed with pew pew combat.

This is a player problem... not a game problem.

Changing the fundamental way a game plays (and one that separates this MMO from all the others) because a few people are toxic about it is not a viable solution. Especially when you can easily form your own group that will accept your gameplay.

It may separate it from other MMOs but it also hinders it. Go ahead and Google reasons people don’t like this game 90% of the answers is the combat.

It’s not fun for many people. No one wants to take away weaving we just want to keep our play style.

And yes it’s a player problem… and that elitism won’t change because for whatever reason people want to turn an elder scrolls game into an esport.

While others want to enjoy more traditional combat for various reason. The player elitism certainly is a problem.

tmbrinks

isadoraisacat wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

Heavy attack won’t be able to clear all content because players of that style are vote kicked and not allowed into combat because for whatever reason people are obsessed with pew pew combat.

This is a player problem... not a game problem.

Changing the fundamental way a game plays (and one that separates this MMO from all the others) because a few people are toxic about it is not a viable solution. Especially when you can easily form your own group that will accept your gameplay.

It may separate it from other MMOs but it also hinders it. Go ahead and Google reasons people don’t like this game 90% of the answers is the combat.

It’s not fun for many people. No one wants to take away weaving we just want to keep our play style.

And yes it’s a player problem… and that elitism won’t change because for whatever reason people want to turn an elder scrolls game into an esport.

While others want to enjoy more traditional combat for various reason. The player elitism certainly is a problem.

A 10% nerf to empower, from 180% damage to 170% (so about a 5% effective change, to a percentage of your damage) isn't going to remove anybody's gameplay. It isn't going to change a thing about what content you can clear (which was everything before... and will still be everything after!)

Unless you are arguing that a 1-button HA build should be able to get the elite end-game trifectas (but you've clearly stated in other threads that is not your motivation)... but then we would be having a completely different discussion, and I'm truly baffled at the outrage over this, when the content creators have tested it on PTS... and shown it's a very minor change, one of the first times ZoS has taken a scalpel to something that was overperforming, rather than nerfing it into oblivion.

isadoraisacat

tmbrinks wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

Heavy attack won’t be able to clear all content because players of that style are vote kicked and not allowed into combat because for whatever reason people are obsessed with pew pew combat.

This is a player problem... not a game problem.

Changing the fundamental way a game plays (and one that separates this MMO from all the others) because a few people are toxic about it is not a viable solution. Especially when you can easily form your own group that will accept your gameplay.

It may separate it from other MMOs but it also hinders it. Go ahead and Google reasons people don’t like this game 90% of the answers is the combat.

It’s not fun for many people. No one wants to take away weaving we just want to keep our play style.

And yes it’s a player problem… and that elitism won’t change because for whatever reason people want to turn an elder scrolls game into an esport.

While others want to enjoy more traditional combat for various reason. The player elitism certainly is a problem.

A 10% nerf to empower, from 180% damage to 170% (so about a 5% effective change, to a percentage of your damage) isn't going to remove anybody's gameplay. It isn't going to change a thing about what content you can clear (which was everything before... and will still be everything after!)

Unless you are arguing that a 1-button HA build should be able to get the elite end-game trifectas (but you've clearly stated in other threads that is not your motivation)... but then we would be having a completely different discussion, and I'm truly baffled at the outrage over this, when the content creators have tested it on PTS... and shown it's a very minor change, one of the first times ZoS has taken a scalpel to something that was overperforming, rather than nerfing it into oblivion.

A small minority using HA to hit a very rare high score was not going to remove anyone’s enjoyment of the game.


This is the second nerf to this plays style now.
And it won’t be the last, it’s not about the “10 % nerf” it’s about the attitude and elitism that comes with the people begging for nerfs towards this play style. Who will continue to beg for them.

And that “over performing” line is greatly exaggerated there have been tons of tests to show the average 2 bar set up still out performs and this was a rare case and expert already experience high end 2 bar player used 1 bar to hit numbers the average player who is using it will never even come close too.

This is an elder scrolls game first not a fighting / shooter / rhythm game.

Some people want to preserve their choice to use a combat style that is closer to the elder scrolls series and not a button masher for immersion reasons and or because they are disabled and or because they have inconsistent ping.

Gaming should be inclusive instead this excludes people, making a bug that was never patched a defacto way to play in a game in series known for immersive and simple in the moment combat.

It is a player problem… if elitism and unwillingness to accept others in the game enjoy playing differently than them.

Ragnarok0130

Amottica wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Weaving requires 1 mouse click and 1 skill button click per second. That's 120 "clicks" per minute. After playing brass instruments at a high level for a decade plus, it's quite slow, and far fewer clicks, just have to stay on rhythm.

Some people don’t like rhythm games.
I’ve been playing guitar and bass In bands since the 90s, playing an instrument creates something this is just mindless clicking, in a game series that should be more immersive with more realistic combat.

Some people have bad ping / and or disabilities which makes playing non musical guitar hero not possible.

Some times people just want to cast spells and role play in a role playing game and not play medieval fantasy guitar hero.

In reality the button clicking in every MMORPG is mindless clicking. It serves no real purpose.

In ESO, no one has to weave. It is a choice. If the player has the basics down they will do good DPS without weaving and be able to get into most raid groups. Sure, weaving will bump their DPS up a measure but if they do not have those basics down it becomes irrelevant.

Precisely, weaving is one of the differences between merely performing combat and mastering combat that Brian Wheeler spoke about. Mastery is something the devs want in the game and want to reward.

To the anti-weavers in the thread, the devs actively embraced weaving years ago to the point that it's even a tool tip on the loading screen; it's not going away no matter how many people stomp their feet.

tmbrinks

isadoraisacat wrote: »

Gaming should be inclusive instead this excludes people, making a bug that was never patched a defacto way to play in a game series known for immersive and simple in the moment combat.

It is inclusive. A HA build can clear and complete ALL content in the game. Again, maybe not at every difficulty... but you can experience the entire game!

Just because there is a way that does more damage does not make that any less true.

isadoraisacat

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Weaving requires 1 mouse click and 1 skill button click per second. That's 120 "clicks" per minute. After playing brass instruments at a high level for a decade plus, it's quite slow, and far fewer clicks, just have to stay on rhythm.

Some people don’t like rhythm games.
I’ve been playing guitar and bass In bands since the 90s, playing an instrument creates something this is just mindless clicking, in a game series that should be more immersive with more realistic combat.

Some people have bad ping / and or disabilities which makes playing non musical guitar hero not possible.

Some times people just want to cast spells and role play in a role playing game and not play medieval fantasy guitar hero.

In reality the button clicking in every MMORPG is mindless clicking. It serves no real purpose.

In ESO, no one has to weave. It is a choice. If the player has the basics down they will do good DPS without weaving and be able to get into most raid groups. Sure, weaving will bump their DPS up a measure but if they do not have those basics down it becomes irrelevant.

Precisely, weaving is one of the differences between merely performing combat and mastering combat that Brian Wheeler spoke about. Mastery is something the devs want in the game and want to reward.

To the anti-weavers in the thread, the devs actively embraced weaving years ago to the point that it's even a tool tip on the loading screen; it's not going away no matter how many people stomp their feet.

They embraced it because it was a bug they couldn’t fix. A bug that removes its combat so far from the elder scrolls roots that it turns off many players form the game. They finally add other ways to play that make it feel more like an elder scrolls game and those elite players are now attempting to destroy that.

Dungeon / trial mechanics are the difficult parts anyone can weave. It’s a brain dead mechanic of pressing 2 buttons. It’s not that it’s hard it’s that it’s not fun, it’s painful for the disabled, and it’s hard to do when someone has inconsistent ping.

isadoraisacat

tmbrinks wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

Gaming should be inclusive instead this excludes people, making a bug that was never patched a defacto way to play in a game series known for immersive and simple in the moment combat.

It is inclusive. A HA build can clear and complete ALL content in the game. Again, maybe not at every difficulty... but you can experience the entire game!

Just because there is a way that does more damage does not make that any less true.

It can’t though when you aren’t allowed into the content due to elitist players who vote kick you for a play style.

Also most ha builds don’t not hit the numbers to meet “end game” requirements. Just because delitias gaming of one of those content creators was able to do that doesn’t mean joe schmo can’t hit those numbers deltias gaming also hits insanely high numbers with 2 bar builds the average player can’t hit.

We need to start doing tests among the average player and not basing numbers on players who aren’t the average consumer and customer. It’s disingenuous and slanted.

tmbrinks

isadoraisacat wrote: »

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Weaving requires 1 mouse click and 1 skill button click per second. That's 120 "clicks" per minute. After playing brass instruments at a high level for a decade plus, it's quite slow, and far fewer clicks, just have to stay on rhythm.

Some people don’t like rhythm games.
I’ve been playing guitar and bass In bands since the 90s, playing an instrument creates something this is just mindless clicking, in a game series that should be more immersive with more realistic combat.

Some people have bad ping / and or disabilities which makes playing non musical guitar hero not possible.

Some times people just want to cast spells and role play in a role playing game and not play medieval fantasy guitar hero.

In reality the button clicking in every MMORPG is mindless clicking. It serves no real purpose.

In ESO, no one has to weave. It is a choice. If the player has the basics down they will do good DPS without weaving and be able to get into most raid groups. Sure, weaving will bump their DPS up a measure but if they do not have those basics down it becomes irrelevant.

Precisely, weaving is one of the differences between merely performing combat and mastering combat that Brian Wheeler spoke about. Mastery is something the devs want in the game and want to reward.

To the anti-weavers in the thread, the devs actively embraced weaving years ago to the point that it's even a tool tip on the loading screen; it's not going away no matter how many people stomp their feet.

They embraced it because it was a bug they couldn’t fix. A bug that removes its combat so far from the elder scrolls roots that it turns off many players form the game. They finally add other ways to play that make it feel more like an elder scrolls game and those elite players are now attempting to destroy that.

Dungeon / trial mechanics are the difficult parts anyone can weave. It’s a brain dead mechanic of pressing 2 buttons. It’s not that it’s hard it’s that it’s not fun, it’s painful for the disabled, and it’s hard to do when someone has inconsistent ping.

Nobody is trying to "destroy" the builds... it's going to be a like 3% change in damage. The hyperbole is getting out of hand. You will still be able to do all the things you've done before.

isadoraisacat

tmbrinks wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Weaving requires 1 mouse click and 1 skill button click per second. That's 120 "clicks" per minute. After playing brass instruments at a high level for a decade plus, it's quite slow, and far fewer clicks, just have to stay on rhythm.

Some people don’t like rhythm games.
I’ve been playing guitar and bass In bands since the 90s, playing an instrument creates something this is just mindless clicking, in a game series that should be more immersive with more realistic combat.

Some people have bad ping / and or disabilities which makes playing non musical guitar hero not possible.

Some times people just want to cast spells and role play in a role playing game and not play medieval fantasy guitar hero.

In reality the button clicking in every MMORPG is mindless clicking. It serves no real purpose.

In ESO, no one has to weave. It is a choice. If the player has the basics down they will do good DPS without weaving and be able to get into most raid groups. Sure, weaving will bump their DPS up a measure but if they do not have those basics down it becomes irrelevant.

Precisely, weaving is one of the differences between merely performing combat and mastering combat that Brian Wheeler spoke about. Mastery is something the devs want in the game and want to reward.

To the anti-weavers in the thread, the devs actively embraced weaving years ago to the point that it's even a tool tip on the loading screen; it's not going away no matter how many people stomp their feet.

They embraced it because it was a bug they couldn’t fix. A bug that removes its combat so far from the elder scrolls roots that it turns off many players form the game. They finally add other ways to play that make it feel more like an elder scrolls game and those elite players are now attempting to destroy that.

Dungeon / trial mechanics are the difficult parts anyone can weave. It’s a brain dead mechanic of pressing 2 buttons. It’s not that it’s hard it’s that it’s not fun, it’s painful for the disabled, and it’s hard to do when someone has inconsistent ping.

Nobody is trying to "destroy" the builds... it's going to be a like 3% change in damage. The hyperbole is getting out of hand. You will still be able to do all the things you've done before.

Again … have you seen comments people want this play style gone. This is the second nerf to the play style and again it won’t be the last. People are already saying “it needs to be nerfed more”.

There is no “ hyperbole” these are genuine concerns, by many players. The “3 %” change is not the concern the concern is the bowing down to elitists and the constant cries for nerfs that will continue.

Galeriano

isadoraisacat wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Weaving requires 1 mouse click and 1 skill button click per second. That's 120 "clicks" per minute. After playing brass instruments at a high level for a decade plus, it's quite slow, and far fewer clicks, just have to stay on rhythm.

Some people don’t like rhythm games.
I’ve been playing guitar and bass In bands since the 90s, playing an instrument creates something this is just mindless clicking, in a game series that should be more immersive with more realistic combat.

Some people have bad ping / and or disabilities which makes playing non musical guitar hero not possible.

Some times people just want to cast spells and role play in a role playing game and not play medieval fantasy guitar hero.

HA setups also have a rhytm to them if You weave abilities inbetween heavies. it's just slower tempo than LA weaving.

tmbrinks

isadoraisacat wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Weaving requires 1 mouse click and 1 skill button click per second. That's 120 "clicks" per minute. After playing brass instruments at a high level for a decade plus, it's quite slow, and far fewer clicks, just have to stay on rhythm.

Some people don’t like rhythm games.
I’ve been playing guitar and bass In bands since the 90s, playing an instrument creates something this is just mindless clicking, in a game series that should be more immersive with more realistic combat.

Some people have bad ping / and or disabilities which makes playing non musical guitar hero not possible.

Some times people just want to cast spells and role play in a role playing game and not play medieval fantasy guitar hero.

In reality the button clicking in every MMORPG is mindless clicking. It serves no real purpose.

In ESO, no one has to weave. It is a choice. If the player has the basics down they will do good DPS without weaving and be able to get into most raid groups. Sure, weaving will bump their DPS up a measure but if they do not have those basics down it becomes irrelevant.

Precisely, weaving is one of the differences between merely performing combat and mastering combat that Brian Wheeler spoke about. Mastery is something the devs want in the game and want to reward.

To the anti-weavers in the thread, the devs actively embraced weaving years ago to the point that it's even a tool tip on the loading screen; it's not going away no matter how many people stomp their feet.

They embraced it because it was a bug they couldn’t fix. A bug that removes its combat so far from the elder scrolls roots that it turns off many players form the game. They finally add other ways to play that make it feel more like an elder scrolls game and those elite players are now attempting to destroy that.

Dungeon / trial mechanics are the difficult parts anyone can weave. It’s a brain dead mechanic of pressing 2 buttons. It’s not that it’s hard it’s that it’s not fun, it’s painful for the disabled, and it’s hard to do when someone has inconsistent ping.

Nobody is trying to "destroy" the builds... it's going to be a like 3% change in damage. The hyperbole is getting out of hand. You will still be able to do all the things you've done before.

Again … have you seen comments people want this play style gone. This is the second nerf to the play style and again it won’t be the last. People are already saying “it needs to be nerfed more”.

There is no “ hyperbole” these are genuine concerns, by many players. The “3 %” change is not the concern the concern is the bowing down to elitists and the constant cries for nerfs that will continue.

I have no desire to see the playstyle "gone", others (including you) clearly want LA weaving removed, how's their opinion any different? They aren't removing either. I think the slight nerf they made to it is reasonable and inline with the goals the developers have stated.

Galeriano

isadoraisacat wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Weaving requires 1 mouse click and 1 skill button click per second. That's 120 "clicks" per minute. After playing brass instruments at a high level for a decade plus, it's quite slow, and far fewer clicks, just have to stay on rhythm.

Some people don’t like rhythm games.
I’ve been playing guitar and bass In bands since the 90s, playing an instrument creates something this is just mindless clicking, in a game series that should be more immersive with more realistic combat.

Some people have bad ping / and or disabilities which makes playing non musical guitar hero not possible.

Some times people just want to cast spells and role play in a role playing game and not play medieval fantasy guitar hero.

In reality the button clicking in every MMORPG is mindless clicking. It serves no real purpose.

In ESO, no one has to weave. It is a choice. If the player has the basics down they will do good DPS without weaving and be able to get into most raid groups. Sure, weaving will bump their DPS up a measure but if they do not have those basics down it becomes irrelevant.

Precisely, weaving is one of the differences between merely performing combat and mastering combat that Brian Wheeler spoke about. Mastery is something the devs want in the game and want to reward.

To the anti-weavers in the thread, the devs actively embraced weaving years ago to the point that it's even a tool tip on the loading screen; it's not going away no matter how many people stomp their feet.

They embraced it because it was a bug they couldn’t fix. A bug that removes its combat so far from the elder scrolls roots that it turns off many players form the game. They finally add other ways to play that make it feel more like an elder scrolls game and those elite players are now attempting to destroy that.

Dungeon / trial mechanics are the difficult parts anyone can weave. It’s a brain dead mechanic of pressing 2 buttons. It’s not that it’s hard it’s that it’s not fun, it’s painful for the disabled, and it’s hard to do when someone has inconsistent ping.

Nobody is trying to "destroy" the builds... it's going to be a like 3% change in damage. The hyperbole is getting out of hand. You will still be able to do all the things you've done before.

Again … have you seen comments people want this play style gone. This is the second nerf to the play style and again it won’t be the last. People are already saying “it needs to be nerfed more”.

There is no “ hyperbole” these are genuine concerns, by many players. The “3 %” change is not the concern the concern is the bowing down to elitists and the constant cries for nerfs that will continue.

It's a first nerf to HA playstyle itself. Last time when oakensoul was changed HA setup in particular was buffed. Average one bar HA DPS went up after that change and setups that got hit the most were actually one bar LA builds and PvP builds.

People post different things, fact that some people want this setup gone doesn't mean it will be gone. You think ZoS went through whole long procces of making one bar HA builds viable just for them to be gone? They specifically said they want this setups to be vital part of the game. That doesn;t mean though these setups are suddenly free from any balance move. You put to much attention to what people say and to little attention to facts.

Is there anything else You have to say other than accusing these mysterious unknown by the name elitists for every change that is happening? Not that long ago size of the change was also a concern for You. We had a long discussion where You've been claiming that this size of the change alone will destroy HA setup for You but now You claim that size of the change is not the concern? Which one is it than?

isadoraisacat

tmbrinks wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Weaving requires 1 mouse click and 1 skill button click per second. That's 120 "clicks" per minute. After playing brass instruments at a high level for a decade plus, it's quite slow, and far fewer clicks, just have to stay on rhythm.

Some people don’t like rhythm games.
I’ve been playing guitar and bass In bands since the 90s, playing an instrument creates something this is just mindless clicking, in a game series that should be more immersive with more realistic combat.

Some people have bad ping / and or disabilities which makes playing non musical guitar hero not possible.

Some times people just want to cast spells and role play in a role playing game and not play medieval fantasy guitar hero.

In reality the button clicking in every MMORPG is mindless clicking. It serves no real purpose.

In ESO, no one has to weave. It is a choice. If the player has the basics down they will do good DPS without weaving and be able to get into most raid groups. Sure, weaving will bump their DPS up a measure but if they do not have those basics down it becomes irrelevant.

Precisely, weaving is one of the differences between merely performing combat and mastering combat that Brian Wheeler spoke about. Mastery is something the devs want in the game and want to reward.

To the anti-weavers in the thread, the devs actively embraced weaving years ago to the point that it's even a tool tip on the loading screen; it's not going away no matter how many people stomp their feet.

They embraced it because it was a bug they couldn’t fix. A bug that removes its combat so far from the elder scrolls roots that it turns off many players form the game. They finally add other ways to play that make it feel more like an elder scrolls game and those elite players are now attempting to destroy that.

Dungeon / trial mechanics are the difficult parts anyone can weave. It’s a brain dead mechanic of pressing 2 buttons. It’s not that it’s hard it’s that it’s not fun, it’s painful for the disabled, and it’s hard to do when someone has inconsistent ping.

Nobody is trying to "destroy" the builds... it's going to be a like 3% change in damage. The hyperbole is getting out of hand. You will still be able to do all the things you've done before.

Again … have you seen comments people want this play style gone. This is the second nerf to the play style and again it won’t be the last. People are already saying “it needs to be nerfed more”.

There is no “ hyperbole” these are genuine concerns, by many players. The “3 %” change is not the concern the concern is the bowing down to elitists and the constant cries for nerfs that will continue.

I have no desire to see the playstyle "gone", others (including you) clearly want LA weaving removed, how's their opinion any different? They aren't removing either. I think the slight nerf they made to it is reasonable and inline with the goals the developers have stated.

I don’t want light attack removed and you can read my post history where I said exactly that I don’t want removed it. I don’t like the play style but I wouldn’t want to take away what others like.

[snip]
[edited for baiting]

Galeriano

isadoraisacat wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Weaving requires 1 mouse click and 1 skill button click per second. That's 120 "clicks" per minute. After playing brass instruments at a high level for a decade plus, it's quite slow, and far fewer clicks, just have to stay on rhythm.

Some people don’t like rhythm games.
I’ve been playing guitar and bass In bands since the 90s, playing an instrument creates something this is just mindless clicking, in a game series that should be more immersive with more realistic combat.

Some people have bad ping / and or disabilities which makes playing non musical guitar hero not possible.

Some times people just want to cast spells and role play in a role playing game and not play medieval fantasy guitar hero.

In reality the button clicking in every MMORPG is mindless clicking. It serves no real purpose.

In ESO, no one has to weave. It is a choice. If the player has the basics down they will do good DPS without weaving and be able to get into most raid groups. Sure, weaving will bump their DPS up a measure but if they do not have those basics down it becomes irrelevant.

Precisely, weaving is one of the differences between merely performing combat and mastering combat that Brian Wheeler spoke about. Mastery is something the devs want in the game and want to reward.

To the anti-weavers in the thread, the devs actively embraced weaving years ago to the point that it's even a tool tip on the loading screen; it's not going away no matter how many people stomp their feet.

They embraced it because it was a bug they couldn’t fix. A bug that removes its combat so far from the elder scrolls roots that it turns off many players form the game. They finally add other ways to play that make it feel more like an elder scrolls game and those elite players are now attempting to destroy that.

Dungeon / trial mechanics are the difficult parts anyone can weave. It’s a brain dead mechanic of pressing 2 buttons. It’s not that it’s hard it’s that it’s not fun, it’s painful for the disabled, and it’s hard to do when someone has inconsistent ping.

Nobody is trying to "destroy" the builds... it's going to be a like 3% change in damage. The hyperbole is getting out of hand. You will still be able to do all the things you've done before.

Again … have you seen comments people want this play style gone. This is the second nerf to the play style and again it won’t be the last. People are already saying “it needs to be nerfed more”.

There is no “ hyperbole” these are genuine concerns, by many players. The “3 %” change is not the concern the concern is the bowing down to elitists and the constant cries for nerfs that will continue.

I have no desire to see the playstyle "gone", others (including you) clearly want LA weaving removed, how's their opinion any different? They aren't removing either. I think the slight nerf they made to it is reasonable and inline with the goals the developers have stated.

I don’t want light attack removed and you can read my post history where I said exactly that I don’t want removed it. I don’t like the play style but I wouldn’t want to take away what others like.

[snip]

But going by Your logic there are also some people that want light attacking to be removed. Should all light attack enjoyers start trembling in fear now? After all over last few years ZoS was consistantly nerfing the importance of light attacks so is this a sign they're listening to those who want light attack removed and that soon they will do it?

[edited to remove quote]

tmbrinks

isadoraisacat wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Weaving requires 1 mouse click and 1 skill button click per second. That's 120 "clicks" per minute. After playing brass instruments at a high level for a decade plus, it's quite slow, and far fewer clicks, just have to stay on rhythm.

Some people don’t like rhythm games.
I’ve been playing guitar and bass In bands since the 90s, playing an instrument creates something this is just mindless clicking, in a game series that should be more immersive with more realistic combat.

Some people have bad ping / and or disabilities which makes playing non musical guitar hero not possible.

Some times people just want to cast spells and role play in a role playing game and not play medieval fantasy guitar hero.

In reality the button clicking in every MMORPG is mindless clicking. It serves no real purpose.

In ESO, no one has to weave. It is a choice. If the player has the basics down they will do good DPS without weaving and be able to get into most raid groups. Sure, weaving will bump their DPS up a measure but if they do not have those basics down it becomes irrelevant.

Precisely, weaving is one of the differences between merely performing combat and mastering combat that Brian Wheeler spoke about. Mastery is something the devs want in the game and want to reward.

To the anti-weavers in the thread, the devs actively embraced weaving years ago to the point that it's even a tool tip on the loading screen; it's not going away no matter how many people stomp their feet.

They embraced it because it was a bug they couldn’t fix. A bug that removes its combat so far from the elder scrolls roots that it turns off many players form the game. They finally add other ways to play that make it feel more like an elder scrolls game and those elite players are now attempting to destroy that.

Dungeon / trial mechanics are the difficult parts anyone can weave. It’s a brain dead mechanic of pressing 2 buttons. It’s not that it’s hard it’s that it’s not fun, it’s painful for the disabled, and it’s hard to do when someone has inconsistent ping.

Nobody is trying to "destroy" the builds... it's going to be a like 3% change in damage. The hyperbole is getting out of hand. You will still be able to do all the things you've done before.

Again … have you seen comments people want this play style gone. This is the second nerf to the play style and again it won’t be the last. People are already saying “it needs to be nerfed more”.

There is no “ hyperbole” these are genuine concerns, by many players. The “3 %” change is not the concern the concern is the bowing down to elitists and the constant cries for nerfs that will continue.

I have no desire to see the playstyle "gone", others (including you) clearly want LA weaving removed, how's their opinion any different? They aren't removing either. I think the slight nerf they made to it is reasonable and inline with the goals the developers have stated.

I don’t want light attack removed and you can read my post history where I said exactly that I don’t want removed it. I don’t like the play style but I wouldn’t want to take away what others like.

[snip]

I can't read your post history, you've made sure your settings don't allow it, which is your right to do so.

I'm only basing it on the comments I have seen in the two threads on it... and from those it's obvious you don't want the style in the game, and anybody who uses it is an "elitist". After playing ESO, I literally cannot play any other Elder Scrolls game, it's so clunky and slow, I'm actually nervous about ES6, and I'm hoping it has action combat like ESO, not like previous iterations of the series.

If you do, that is fine, it's also your right, but I'm tired of the name-calling.

[edited to remove quote]

isadoraisacat

tmbrinks wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Weaving requires 1 mouse click and 1 skill button click per second. That's 120 "clicks" per minute. After playing brass instruments at a high level for a decade plus, it's quite slow, and far fewer clicks, just have to stay on rhythm.

Some people don’t like rhythm games.
I’ve been playing guitar and bass In bands since the 90s, playing an instrument creates something this is just mindless clicking, in a game series that should be more immersive with more realistic combat.

Some people have bad ping / and or disabilities which makes playing non musical guitar hero not possible.

Some times people just want to cast spells and role play in a role playing game and not play medieval fantasy guitar hero.

In reality the button clicking in every MMORPG is mindless clicking. It serves no real purpose.

In ESO, no one has to weave. It is a choice. If the player has the basics down they will do good DPS without weaving and be able to get into most raid groups. Sure, weaving will bump their DPS up a measure but if they do not have those basics down it becomes irrelevant.

Precisely, weaving is one of the differences between merely performing combat and mastering combat that Brian Wheeler spoke about. Mastery is something the devs want in the game and want to reward.

To the anti-weavers in the thread, the devs actively embraced weaving years ago to the point that it's even a tool tip on the loading screen; it's not going away no matter how many people stomp their feet.

They embraced it because it was a bug they couldn’t fix. A bug that removes its combat so far from the elder scrolls roots that it turns off many players form the game. They finally add other ways to play that make it feel more like an elder scrolls game and those elite players are now attempting to destroy that.

Dungeon / trial mechanics are the difficult parts anyone can weave. It’s a brain dead mechanic of pressing 2 buttons. It’s not that it’s hard it’s that it’s not fun, it’s painful for the disabled, and it’s hard to do when someone has inconsistent ping.

Nobody is trying to "destroy" the builds... it's going to be a like 3% change in damage. The hyperbole is getting out of hand. You will still be able to do all the things you've done before.

Again … have you seen comments people want this play style gone. This is the second nerf to the play style and again it won’t be the last. People are already saying “it needs to be nerfed more”.

There is no “ hyperbole” these are genuine concerns, by many players. The “3 %” change is not the concern the concern is the bowing down to elitists and the constant cries for nerfs that will continue.

I have no desire to see the playstyle "gone", others (including you) clearly want LA weaving removed, how's their opinion any different? They aren't removing either. I think the slight nerf they made to it is reasonable and inline with the goals the developers have stated.

I don’t want light attack removed and you can read my post history where I said exactly that I don’t want removed it. I don’t like the play style but I wouldn’t want to take away what others like.

[snip]

I can't read your post history, you've made sure your settings don't allow it, which is your right to do so.

I'm only basing it on the comments I have seen in the two threads on it... and from those it's obvious you don't want the style in the game, and anybody who uses it is an "elitist". After playing ESO, I literally cannot play any other Elder Scrolls game, it's so clunky and slow, I'm actually nervous about ES6, and I'm hoping it has action combat like ESO, not like previous iterations of the series.

If you do, that is fine, it's also your right, but I'm tired of the name-calling.

I don’t care if it’s in the game. What I care about is those who don’t want alternative play styles in the game. That is my issue so you are wrong. How other people play doesn’t affect me.. I wish those others calling for nerfs would see the same way.

A finger Waltz is not “action combat” if the bring in this weaving [snip] into elder scrolls 6 real elder scrolls fans would be very unhappy. It’s the reason why many elder scrolls fans can not get into eso the combat is not fun it’s combat for a shooter / fighting game and not an rpg.

[edited for profanity bypass & to remove quote]

Ph1p

Imagine if this thread stayed on the topic of how weaving is made difficult by performance issues, which is a valid concern. But of course every discussion these days needs to end up in a pointless HA vs. LA argument... It's like Godwin's law, but with Oakensoul.

Meanwhile, the outsized attention this topic is getting completely overshadows the fact that most people don't mind these builds or that most of the infighting is just people talking past each other or projecting actions/words of a few actually obnoxious players onto others...

isadoraisacat

Ph1p wrote: »

Imagine if this thread stayed on the topic of how weaving is made difficult by performance issues, which is a valid concern. But of course every discussion these days needs to end up in a pointless HA vs. LA argument... It's like Godwin's law, but with Oakensoul.

Meanwhile, the outsized attention this topic is getting completely overshadows the fact that most people don't mind these builds or that most of the infighting is just people talking past each other or projecting actions/words of a few actually obnoxious players onto others...

Or people are just sharing their opinions in a thread that discusses said topic, and all concerns related to said topic.

tmbrinks

isadoraisacat wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Weaving requires 1 mouse click and 1 skill button click per second. That's 120 "clicks" per minute. After playing brass instruments at a high level for a decade plus, it's quite slow, and far fewer clicks, just have to stay on rhythm.

Some people don’t like rhythm games.
I’ve been playing guitar and bass In bands since the 90s, playing an instrument creates something this is just mindless clicking, in a game series that should be more immersive with more realistic combat.

Some people have bad ping / and or disabilities which makes playing non musical guitar hero not possible.

Some times people just want to cast spells and role play in a role playing game and not play medieval fantasy guitar hero.

In reality the button clicking in every MMORPG is mindless clicking. It serves no real purpose.

In ESO, no one has to weave. It is a choice. If the player has the basics down they will do good DPS without weaving and be able to get into most raid groups. Sure, weaving will bump their DPS up a measure but if they do not have those basics down it becomes irrelevant.

Precisely, weaving is one of the differences between merely performing combat and mastering combat that Brian Wheeler spoke about. Mastery is something the devs want in the game and want to reward.

To the anti-weavers in the thread, the devs actively embraced weaving years ago to the point that it's even a tool tip on the loading screen; it's not going away no matter how many people stomp their feet.

They embraced it because it was a bug they couldn’t fix. A bug that removes its combat so far from the elder scrolls roots that it turns off many players form the game. They finally add other ways to play that make it feel more like an elder scrolls game and those elite players are now attempting to destroy that.

Dungeon / trial mechanics are the difficult parts anyone can weave. It’s a brain dead mechanic of pressing 2 buttons. It’s not that it’s hard it’s that it’s not fun, it’s painful for the disabled, and it’s hard to do when someone has inconsistent ping.

Nobody is trying to "destroy" the builds... it's going to be a like 3% change in damage. The hyperbole is getting out of hand. You will still be able to do all the things you've done before.

Again … have you seen comments people want this play style gone. This is the second nerf to the play style and again it won’t be the last. People are already saying “it needs to be nerfed more”.

There is no “ hyperbole” these are genuine concerns, by many players. The “3 %” change is not the concern the concern is the bowing down to elitists and the constant cries for nerfs that will continue.

I have no desire to see the playstyle "gone", others (including you) clearly want LA weaving removed, how's their opinion any different? They aren't removing either. I think the slight nerf they made to it is reasonable and inline with the goals the developers have stated.

I don’t want light attack removed and you can read my post history where I said exactly that I don’t want removed it. I don’t like the play style but I wouldn’t want to take away what others like.

[snip]

I can't read your post history, you've made sure your settings don't allow it, which is your right to do so.

I'm only basing it on the comments I have seen in the two threads on it... and from those it's obvious you don't want the style in the game, and anybody who uses it is an "elitist". After playing ESO, I literally cannot play any other Elder Scrolls game, it's so clunky and slow, I'm actually nervous about ES6, and I'm hoping it has action combat like ESO, not like previous iterations of the series.

If you do, that is fine, it's also your right, but I'm tired of the name-calling.

I don’t care if it’s in the game. What I care about is those who don’t want alternative play styles in the game. That is my issue so you are wrong. How other people play doesn’t affect me.. I wish those others calling for nerfs would see the same way.

A finger Waltz is not “action combat” if the bring in this weaving [snip] into elder scrolls 6 real elder scrolls fans would be very unhappy. It’s the reason why many elder scrolls fans can not get into eso the combat is not fun it’s combat for a shooter / fighting game and not an rpg.

[edited for profanity bypass & to remove quote]

But ESO lets you play exactly how you can in the previous ES titles... and still do all content. It just allows for additional combat methods above and beyond... more choice! I'd think that was a good thing.