This will change NB for EVER

Dojohoda

That's insane.
I'm wondering if the 100 meters is the diameter and the user is in the middle meaning the user can see 50 meters out from where the user is standing.
Or if the 100 meters is more like a cone and the user can see outward for 100 meters?

Either way, that's insane.

Marcus684

I'm not sure this 100 meter distance is an absolute. AFAIK invisibility and cloak operate around a fairly complex calculation that compares the hider's stealth radius vs. the seeker's detection radius and all of the factors that affect these. This 100 meter increase may be vs. a target with absolutely no bonuses to stealth, while a player fully built for stealth may reduce this a lot. Some in-depth testing is probably warranted before all the NB mains quit the game en masse.

Vulkunne

Its probably something left over that the devs were using for testing purposes.

There is something in the patch notes about them working on fixing a cloaking issue related to detect pots.

@ZOS_Kevin any thoughts on this one?

Dr_Con

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Wouldn't effect my NB at all, Don't use Invisibility.

---

the Sentry set sees everyone in render distance, sneaking or otherwise. It's cool to see more attention to the potion however, as the utility is far greater and it is available without needing a special set

JonnytheKing

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

Does it actually work as described in the tool tip or is it just a mistake on the description and the functionality of the pots themselves remains unaffected?

it works

JonnytheKing

Vulkunne wrote: »

Its probably something left over that the devs were using for testing purposes.

There is something in the patch notes about them working on fixing a cloaking issue related to detect pots.

@ZOS_Kevin any thoughts on this one?

yer i was thinking the same

Thecompton73

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

Who cares if they can see you 100m away? Assuming they can in any case (LoS, graphics capability).

By the time you get close the 15 seconds will be up, they will be on a 30 second cool down, and you hit cloak..

Because EVERYONE can see you as long as that one person stays within 100m.

TechMaybeHic

So it works for stealth, but what about invis pots and cloak as mentioned here?

Fixed an issue where sources of Invisibility from things such as Shadow Cloak or potions could still allow you to be detected by other players in some cases, such as when you were wearing too many pieces of Heavy Armor, or when player targets had increases to Stealth Detection.

LunaFlora

sounds fun

Ratzkifal

Mayrael wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Is it just a UI tool tip or it actually detects in THAT range ? Have anyone tested it ?

It sounds kinda weird and game breaking for sure. Imagine if you use it in a keep or IC. Some one on the other side of the IC district will be detected, even if you dont have a line of sight.

People will be reporting that stealth / invisibility does not work and they will think it is the fault of the PvE mobs. But in reality it will be some player standing in their re-spawn in IC and acting as a "radar" lol.

Also, just a thought. If you combine new potion cooldown set with potion cooldown jewelry, you can easily get 100% uptime on many potions - including detection potions.

Another idea that comes to mind is this: Imagine you are in Cyro in the middle of nowhere or you are approaching a keep, but you are still far away and out of nowhere you get detected. You back up 2 meters and you go back to stealth again. So you immediately know that "someone" out there is using detected potions. So it can work both ways. They will detected you, but they will not even know that as they will not even see you since you are still very far away (the game won't even render you for them). But you will know that enemy player is less that 100 meters away from you.

Sure, it affects NBs the most, but not only them. Vampires and any one who uses stealth potions won't be able to use it. On top of that crouch stealth will also be useless (any class can do those things). So we are talking about entire mechanics being wiped from the game.

Tested. It does have 100m range now.

When you use stealth you'll get opening eye but when you use cloak, vampire invisibility or potion you'll get no warning.

Wow... I am kinda speechless

OK, If someone is reading this, here is a short experiment you can do even on a live server. All you will need is to have Lethal Arrow (Snipe morph).
1. Find a bunch of mobs anywhere in overland (or at least one).
2. Move away to the point where Lethal Arrow will be out of range, then go back and stop as soon as Lethal Arrow lights up and will be in range again.
3. Now run towards the mob (without any speed buff and sprint) and count how many seconds it took.
4. Kill the mob so it would not snare you. Don't loot the mob so that it corpse will remain on the ground.
5. Multiple the amount of seconds you have counted by 2.8 .
6. Run in a straight line in any direction with constant speed for the duration of seconds.
7. The distance you are at from the dead mob is more or less 100 meters - the new detect potions radius.
Bonus: Can you even see the mob ? Is it even still rendered by the game engine ? Yeah...

I am pretty sure it is an oversight & something not intended lol

As I mentioned earlier I hope it is some leftover after fix to this:

Fixed an issue where sources of Invisibility from things such as Shadow Cloak or potions could still allow you to be detected by other players in some cases, such as when you were wearing too many pieces of Heavy Armor, or when player targets had increases to Stealth Detection.

Wait, they finally fixed the Bosmer racial passive detection? I missed that. I guess now it's no longer a bugged passive but a passive that "only" alerts enemies to your own position while in stealth lol.

Caribou77

Ive got detect pots on my wheel in pvp, but refrain from using them bc tri stat pots are generally far more useful.

As a few ppl on this thread have mentioned, the really skilled/dangerous nbs no longer have to rely on cloak.

The ones that do are more of a nuisance than a threat.

Naftal

Thecompton73 wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

Who cares if they can see you 100m away? Assuming they can in any case (LoS, graphics capability).

By the time you get close the 15 seconds will be up, they will be on a 30 second cool down, and you hit cloak..

Because EVERYONE can see you as long as that one person stays within 100m.

Only the person who has the buff can see you. It doesn't prevent people from sneaking or going invisible. It only reveals them to the person drinking the potion.

katanagirl1

If this is true I will remove that skill on my bar, I think it’s Revealing Flare or something, and use detect pots. My problem with them previously is that it is really hard to catch a skilled player with only a five meter radius, or whatever it was before. I can actually slot another skill for fighting, this is good news!

Mayrael

Caribou77 wrote: »

Ive got detect pots on my wheel in pvp, but refrain from using them bc tri stat pots are generally far more useful.

As a few ppl on this thread have mentioned, the really skilled/dangerous nbs no longer have to rely on cloak.

The ones that do are more of a nuisance than a threat.

Yeah, I rarely use cloak in combat myself, but nevertheless I do not think that such a range of these potions is appropriate, because in essence it excludes the use of cloak for defensive purposes. I myself use these potions to hunt other NBs and I think they are already extremely effective on live servers.

Janni

Just for reference, the sentry set has a range that is about 100 meters. But that set reveals targets for all allies to see. Afaik detection pots only work for the user, right?

I guess it could still be really strong for someone that has leaned into potion cooldown reduction.

Mayrael

Janni wrote: »

Just for reference, the sentry set has a range that is about 100 meters. But that set reveals targets for all allies to see. Afaik detection pots only work for the user, right?

I guess it could still be really strong for someone that has leaned into potion cooldown reduction.

There is a difference between a potion that can be quickly changed on the quickslot when needed and may also have additional effects, and a 5-piece set... Just saying.

Vulkunne

Janni wrote: »

Just for reference, the sentry set has a range that is about 100 meters. But that set reveals targets for all allies to see. Afaik detection pots only work for the user, right?

I guess it could still be really strong for someone that has leaned into potion cooldown reduction.

Oh ok. It seems really strong though. I guess we've lost invisibility now. *** hum another cool feature gone from the game.

AnduinTryggva

katanagirl1 wrote: »

If this is true I will remove that skill on my bar, I think it’s Revealing Flare or something, and use detect pots. My problem with them previously is that it is really hard to catch a skilled player with only a five meter radius, or whatever it was before. I can actually slot another skill for fighting, this is good news!

5m is really too little as this is already pretty well inside radius of some execution distance.
30m would be more appropriate.
100m is just killing the invisibily skill in pvp

kringled_1

On live detect potions give a 20m radius

Galeriano

FangOfTheTwoMoons wrote: »

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

If this were real I can guarantee people still wouldn't use detect pots lol

This 100%.


The fact no one uses detect pots already is silly.

Because they are uselesss against any nb who knows what to do. Avoiding dmg for 15 seconds on nb isn't really that hard and when someone is investing in detect pot instead of for example tristat pot he is sacrificing somethig often gets nothing in return.

FantasticFreddie

I'm baffled that there js no sort of official response to this one way or another.
@ZOS_Kevin or @ZOS_GinaBruno is this an intended change that was left out of the patch notes by accident or is this some sort of mistake?

SpacemanSpiff1

a stealth nerf to stealth? or a stealth buff to detection?

Galeriano

Fair change to be honest. Nightblades recived many defensive and offensive buffs lately to the point stealth playstyle have berely any risks. You can jump on someone with a gank attempt fail and just safely run away even if enemy used detect pot, then You can repeat gank attempt few seconds later. Longer range will make detect pot what it should be, a potion that allows to effectively deal with stealth playstyle players for a short duration.

Shepoffire

There should be a tell that someone has used a detect pot. Just like the current reveal skills

Meurto

Galeriano wrote: »

Fair change to be honest. Nightblades recived many defensive and offensive buffs lately to the point stealth playstyle have berely any risks. You can jump on someone with a gank attempt fail and just safely run away even if enemy used detect pot, then You can repeat gank attempt few seconds later. Longer range will make detect pot what it should be, a potion that allows to effectively deal with stealth playstyle players for a short duration.

I think you would have a fair point if detect pots (increased range imo is a bit excessive) were the only counter to stealth, but they are not. There are already a lot of tools to reveal and expose nightblades who are cloaked and in most cases once they are revealed they are dealt with quite easily. This isn't going to help you against these refreshing path magblades or the meta stamblade builds.

Personally I don't have any issue revealing nightblades today either through skills like magelight or the current version of detect pots. I guess what I am trying to say is I don't really see the reason for this change.

Amottica

Wow.

I think it’s a great idea to increase the range a little bit 100m is to much. That’s several times the range of any skill.

Galeriano

Meurto wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

Fair change to be honest. Nightblades recived many defensive and offensive buffs lately to the point stealth playstyle have berely any risks. You can jump on someone with a gank attempt fail and just safely run away even if enemy used detect pot, then You can repeat gank attempt few seconds later. Longer range will make detect pot what it should be, a potion that allows to effectively deal with stealth playstyle players for a short duration.

I think you would have a fair point if detect pots (increased range imo is a bit excessive) were the only counter to stealth, but they are not. There are already a lot of tools to reveal and expose nightblades who are cloaked and in most cases once they are revealed they are dealt with quite easily. This isn't going to help you against these refreshing path magblades or the meta stamblade builds.

Personally I don't have any issue revealing nightblades today either through skills like magelight or the current version of detect pots. I guess what I am trying to say is I don't really see the reason for this change.

I think You would have a fair point if nightnlade wouldn't be able to deal with all of mentioned by You counters. Many nightblades dies easily because player playing them rely too heavily on cloak thinking it's a win button and the moment that fails they lose their minds. These tools You've mentioned are more often than not a weak option. Good nightblades deal easily with cloak counters not to mention that every cloak counter needs to slotted/used mostly for that particular reason so in order to have a fighting chance against nightnlades people need to first gimp themselves against everyone else.

Personally I also dont have issues with revealing nightblades. The thing is these days nightblades have really easy ways to deal with the fact they were detected which isn't balanced considering how potent stealth playstyle is in ESO.

I agree though that 100 meters is not needed. Not that it would change much between 50 and 100 meters but atleast it wouldn't cause so much panic in many nightblade players. 20 meters is too low though considering that nb that is attacking someone can be shooting snipes from 40 meters away and start running the moment someone will turn in his direction making detect potions and any other source of detection useless. Even meele attacker can pretty easily increase the distance above 20 meters with tools like shadow image or simple kiting and sprinting. Detect potion should be a real 15 seconds of danger that cannot be countered with invisibility which it's supposed to counter.

Mayrael

Galeriano wrote: »

Meurto wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

Fair change to be honest. Nightblades recived many defensive and offensive buffs lately to the point stealth playstyle have berely any risks. You can jump on someone with a gank attempt fail and just safely run away even if enemy used detect pot, then You can repeat gank attempt few seconds later. Longer range will make detect pot what it should be, a potion that allows to effectively deal with stealth playstyle players for a short duration.

I think you would have a fair point if detect pots (increased range imo is a bit excessive) were the only counter to stealth, but they are not. There are already a lot of tools to reveal and expose nightblades who are cloaked and in most cases once they are revealed they are dealt with quite easily. This isn't going to help you against these refreshing path magblades or the meta stamblade builds.

Personally I don't have any issue revealing nightblades today either through skills like magelight or the current version of detect pots. I guess what I am trying to say is I don't really see the reason for this change.

I think You would have a fair point if nightnlade wouldn't be able to deal with all of mentioned by You counters. Many nightblades dies easily because player playing them rely too heavily on cloak thinking it's a win button and the moment that fails they lose their minds. These tools You've mentioned are more often than not a weak option. Good nightblades deal easily with cloak counters not to mention that every cloak counter needs to slotted/used mostly for that particular reason so in order to have a fighting chance against nightnlades people need to first gimp themselves against everyone else.

Personally I also dont have issues with revealing nightblades. The thing is these days nightblades have really easy ways to deal with the fact they were detected which isn't balanced considering how potent stealth playstyle is in ESO.

I agree though that 100 meters is not needed. Not that it would change much between 50 and 100 meters but atleast it wouldn't cause so much panic in many nightblade players. 20 meters is too low though considering that nb that is attacking someone can be shooting snipes from 40 meters away and start running the moment someone will turn in his direction making detect potions and any other source of detection useless. Even meele attacker can pretty easily increase the distance above 20 meters with tools like shadow image or simple kiting and sprinting. Detect potion should be a real 15 seconds of danger that cannot be countered with invisibility which it's supposed to counter.

Of course, there are counters to tactics that counter invisibility. Just as there are counters to shields, fast running, DoT, etc., and each of these mechanics also has a counter. The winner is the one who can better and faster recognize the opponent's tactics.

What you propose eliminates the possibility of countering detection and forces the use of other defensive techniques. It's like with the Shieldbreaker set when it dealt Oblivion Damage to targets that had a shield on them. There was no other counter to such a person than to stop using shields. That's why this set was completely changed.

Similarly, the situation with a range of 50-100m for detection potions you propose. Just use such a potion, and the only thing NB can do is stop using cloak. It's like having a button that turns off, for example, Sorc's Streak or any heal. It doesn't make sense. The counter to detection has always been distance. If you're sniped from 40m away, start running around the nearest terrain obstacle and change position. That's the counter because what you propose is a complete reversal of the situation where the player using detection potion uses an "I win button". Everything should be balanced.

Galeriano

Mayrael wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

Meurto wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

Fair change to be honest. Nightblades recived many defensive and offensive buffs lately to the point stealth playstyle have berely any risks. You can jump on someone with a gank attempt fail and just safely run away even if enemy used detect pot, then You can repeat gank attempt few seconds later. Longer range will make detect pot what it should be, a potion that allows to effectively deal with stealth playstyle players for a short duration.

I think you would have a fair point if detect pots (increased range imo is a bit excessive) were the only counter to stealth, but they are not. There are already a lot of tools to reveal and expose nightblades who are cloaked and in most cases once they are revealed they are dealt with quite easily. This isn't going to help you against these refreshing path magblades or the meta stamblade builds.

Personally I don't have any issue revealing nightblades today either through skills like magelight or the current version of detect pots. I guess what I am trying to say is I don't really see the reason for this change.

I think You would have a fair point if nightnlade wouldn't be able to deal with all of mentioned by You counters. Many nightblades dies easily because player playing them rely too heavily on cloak thinking it's a win button and the moment that fails they lose their minds. These tools You've mentioned are more often than not a weak option. Good nightblades deal easily with cloak counters not to mention that every cloak counter needs to slotted/used mostly for that particular reason so in order to have a fighting chance against nightnlades people need to first gimp themselves against everyone else.

Personally I also dont have issues with revealing nightblades. The thing is these days nightblades have really easy ways to deal with the fact they were detected which isn't balanced considering how potent stealth playstyle is in ESO.

I agree though that 100 meters is not needed. Not that it would change much between 50 and 100 meters but atleast it wouldn't cause so much panic in many nightblade players. 20 meters is too low though considering that nb that is attacking someone can be shooting snipes from 40 meters away and start running the moment someone will turn in his direction making detect potions and any other source of detection useless. Even meele attacker can pretty easily increase the distance above 20 meters with tools like shadow image or simple kiting and sprinting. Detect potion should be a real 15 seconds of danger that cannot be countered with invisibility which it's supposed to counter.

Of course, there are counters to tactics that counter invisibility. Just as there are counters to shields, fast running, DoT, etc., and each of these mechanics also has a counter. The winner is the one who can better and faster recognize the opponent's tactics.

What you propose eliminates the possibility of countering detection and forces the use of other defensive techniques. It's like with the Shieldbreaker set when it dealt Oblivion Damage to targets that had a shield on them. There was no other counter to such a person than to stop using shields. That's why this set was completely changed.

Similarly, the situation with a range of 50-100m for detection potions you propose. Just use such a potion, and the only thing NB can do is stop using cloak. It's like having a button that turns off, for example, Sorc's Streak or any heal. It doesn't make sense. The counter to detection has always been distance. If you're sniped from 40m away, start running around the nearest terrain obstacle and change position. That's the counter because what you propose is a complete reversal of the situation where the player using detection potion uses an "I win button". Everything should be balanced.

Thing is in most cases counters are built into abilities or things You would use anyway like running. Using detect potion is a specific counter to a specific things where You sacrifice usage of other more usefull potion to get specific outcome.

Yeah that's excatly the goal of detection potion. To eliminate effective stealth playstyle from opponent for a short duration of time. Fact that there is possiblity to still end up safely in stealth against someone who is using detect potion during detection duration basically contradicts existance of detect potion. Shieldbreaker was a completly different story. Proc condition was extremly easy to meet, spamming light attacks didn't cost You anything and set had no cooldown.

Nightblade should stop using cloak when enemy is using detection potion. What is the other reason to use potion? In the older days nightblades could argue that their defense is to weak for detect potion buffs but these days nightblades have enough defense to 1vX without cloak. Yes, counter to detection has always been distance and it's very easy to build that 20 meters distance on a nightblade while on top of that class recived more tools that allow to build that distance safely. If I use detect potion I want 15 seconds of guaranteed detection not 15 seconds of possibility to detect. Even if detection potion would have 1 kilometer distance it still wouldn't be "I win button" because of how many survivability tools nightblades have these days to survive for 15 seconds.

Xarc

lol

people cried about NB
and they won, AGAIN