Thoughts of a Random Guy on Necrom Changes to HA / Heavy-Attack builds & on Arcanist

Daoin

you could lay down a myriad of aoes and have the same effect by just pressing a few keys while also being able to stay moving around and also having a bar free for anything could help the said group, theres nothing about this build that points it to being great and the only for the disabled over any other build and shouldnt be viewed that way i find the lightening staff a great weapon without oakensoul but in all honesty sometimes its getting a bit embasrassing to use it because of how its viewed now for even the little damage it does at the same time as building the small amount of majicka my dd uses ( i say a little but quite good over all.. i mean not with constant heavy attacks throughout a whole dungeon) i mean yeah if you were with a group of friends and were all on facetime through the dungeon at corner of screen without looking whats really going on on the main screen at all perfectly good to just HA so honestly not complaing about it

isadoraisacat

loveeso wrote: »

Recap of Anti-HA Rhetoric

After carefully perusing various forum posts, I have collated a summary of arguments put forth by players who employ LA DD builds as to why players who utilize Heavy Attack (HA) play style ought to be weakened. Here are the arguments:

1.
Argument: “HA is so OP that it is best in end-game content - for example look at vAS+2!” (Yes, they always use vAS+2 as an “example” )

Reality: The vAS+2 trial is an outlier (see below) so this argument is insincere but even in vAS+2 LA teams are performing better than HA teams. The best HA team took approximately 32% longer than the best LA team to complete the trial.

What the anti-HA players conveniently fail to mention is that HA teams are completely destroyed by LA teams in all the other trials (see the DPS tables below) which means that for the sake of honesty this anti-HA argument should be rewritten as follows: “While LA builds reign supreme in 91% of end-game content, in the remaining 9% HA builds perform only 32% worse. Nerf them even more!”


Figure 1: Top DPS tables in all the other (10!) trials. It's just the first page and it's followed by pages and pages completely dominated by LA DDs. Just go to the logs website and check it out yourself - you will see how much LA meta outclasses HA. The difference is so huge that it looks ridiculous But yeah, let's nerf HA


2.
Argument: “HA builds are much tankier than my LA build! Too tanky! It’s not fair! Nerf their DPS!”

Reality: I have already shown why this excuse to nerf HA builds does not make sense in this post ( https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7857529/#Comment_7857529 ) but I have some additional comments, please continue reading.

First of all, it is not true, as it’s not related to HA but to the Oakensoul ring. Not all HA builds use Oakensoul, and not all Oakensoul peeps use HA, some of them are LA players… and guess what, the nerf tested on the PTS targets HA players, not Oakensoul players.

Any LA can be made as tanky as an Oakensoul build. Here are simple examples how:

• Stop using parse food and get food which increases your health - you will lose a tiny bit of your DPS but you will have more health.
• Slap prismatic defence on your armour and get more health and magicka or stamina: you will lose just a few % of your super high LA DPS.
• In any group content you should already get Major Resolve from your Warden healer or tank so you get the same 6000 armour as Oakensoul players.
• Still salty about not having that 5% damage mitigation from Minor Aegis? You have more bar space than 1bar builds, slap Flare on your bar, you will get 10% damage mitigation (or you can swap one of your sets to a set that provides Minor Aegis… or do both and get 10% + 5% damage mitigation)..

The above will make you as tanky as any Oakensoul player. Yes, you will have lower DPS than on your glass-cannon LA build but, guess what, Oakensoul builds pay for their tankiness with their DPS. Good news, if you know how to play, your tanky two-bar LA build will still have higher DPS output than those pesky HA builds.

3.
Argument: “My LA build has problems with sustain and HA builds don’t have any problems with sustain! It’s not fair! Nerf their DPS!”

Reality: If you know what you are doing on a well-designed LA build in a well-composed group (we are talking about end-game content here, aren’t we), you should not have any problems with sustain (especially nowadays, when sustain is so much easier with hybrid builds). If you are still envious of those pesky HA players with their annoying sustain, here are some simple examples of what you can do to have better sustain:

• Stop using Increase Magical/Physical Harm on all your jewellery pieces and get regeneration or decrease cost glyphs - you will sustain without any problem and you will lose just a few percent of your DPS
• Use a heavy attack every now and then to get resources - you will lose a tiny bit of your DPS but it will still be higher than HA DPS (unless you haven’t got skilled yet). Can’t get Magicka with your greatsword and daggers? Well, it was your choice to equip Stamina weapons on both bars - equip a staff on your back bar.
• Modify your build even more, e.g. you can choose a different race, or change your weapons and skills and get better sustain at the cost of DPS (your DPS will still be higher than that of HA builds unless you don’t know what you are doing but in that case either “get good” or… switch to a heavy attack build)

***

As you can see from the above, the "arguments" most commonly employed by HA haters are either insincere or nonsensical. Moreover, the anti-HA rhetoric suffers from another, more significant flaw. The HA critics often fixate on just one HA build, the Oakensoul Sorcerer with a Lightning staff (and often, two pets), to argue for nerfing the whole HA play style. However, when questioned about the need to nerf all the other HA builds that use different classes, weapons, or lack Oakensoul, they either ignore the question or provide weak “justifications” such as "it's not a significant nerf." Such responses fail to address the central issue: why nerf HA builds at all? As has been demonstrated in this thread and in many, many other places, their DPS output is already much lower than that of the two-bar LA meta. This holds true even for Oakensoul lightning sorcerers with their two pets.

To address the elephant in the room, here is an example of a heavy-attack build that is not a sorcerer, does not utilize pets, and relies on weapons other than the lightning staff:


Figure 2: A non-sorcerer non-lightning equivalent to the one-button HA build and the one-skill LA build that we discussed earlier in this thread.

DPS on the trial dummy: 35k (i.e. only 25% of LA meta - but why stop here, let's nerf HA even more! )

As you can see, such HA builds have atrociously low DPS, yet the anti-HA camp calls for nerfs to all HA builds, including those that differ significantly from the Oakensoul lightning sorcerer with pets. This demand is entirely irrational. Instead, a rational approach would be to leave the lightning sorcerer builds (which are already weaker than the LA meta) as they are and bring all other HA builds up to their level.

thanks for continuing to go up to bat for HA. all we can do is provide data and let zos make a decision what is best and hope for the best.

isadoraisacat

Daoin wrote: »

are they finally doing away with the HA build ? i mean i like the sound of it but to keep seeing people rally around it for being great for 'disabled' people to be able to get into better content is wrong just all wrong ! take a closer look at the people who critisize someone build rather the build itself the damge it can be capable of, if someones getting a hard time due to thier build then and HA is the only way to overcome it, your hanging around all the wrong people.

they are great for the disabled. about 6 years ago my hand was crushed in a machine at work and i was imapled with 316 steel. I lost feeling in my entire hand but now its just in 3 fingers the rest of the feeling came back in other spots. i had a severed nerve. On top of this i have carpal tunnel from repetitive motion working on machines (lathe, punch press , circle shear etc) in a metal machine shop. Due to this weaving is very difficult to be consistent on either a controller or keyboard.
i will be getting surgery eventually but it doesnt always solve the issue.

HA attack play style has allowed me to be able to hit a viable dps where when i need to stop for a second or two due to pain and discomfort and somtimes i cant tell when i am pressing the button on the mouse.

this is a very elitist mindset to have, stop worrying about other people and focus on your build and how you can do better.

Daoin

i all the years i have played eso im not sure where weaving plays a role in this i have never practiced weaving never intend to never had a problem with content unless jumping in with no clue on what to do then was better to try with experienced players not improved dps also have a myriad of problems i wont share in public am hard core against elitism really mate if that is elitism then im not sure what your post is trying to achieve [snip]

[edited for baiting]

isadoraisacat

Daoin wrote: »

i all the years i have played eso im not sure where weaving plays a role in this i have never pracctived weaving never intend to never had a problem with content unless jumping in with no clue on what to do then was better to try with experienced players not improved dps also have a myriad of problems i wont share in public am hard core against elitism really mate if that is elitism then im not sure what your post is trying to achieve

weaving plays a vital role in end game dps. if you never practiced weaving likely you aren't in the end game and seem to be picking on heavy attack just to do it. both play styles are viable and have their merit. all you are doing is dividing the community more with these kind of comments. its not needed.

Daoin

not mine and if you mean end game as in 80k dummy parse how is that end game or please explain end game

isadoraisacat

loveeso wrote: »

I just found out from a kind stranger (thank you!) that our small forum thread has gained popularity on YouTube! It's exciting to see that our discussion has reached a wider audience and is sparking interest in the topic. Here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtyKqfiEoaA

If you are still interested in this discussion, don’t miss the latest update here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7867705/#Comment_7867705

i really dont think light or heavy attacks should be nerfed, i think people should learn to focus on themselves and stop worrying what other people do.

Daoin

how to not focus on group in when joining a random group for something ? you know the answer lies elswhere and not in each other right ? a simple solution being able to have an option to not group with certain classes or roles or even people youve met along the way would go a long way as it is now we leave a group changer to another charachter once and if its same role you'll get put right back where you just left likely giving the people an option to group or not group with the HA build is a better solution to any ive seen so far

isadoraisacat

Daoin wrote: »

how to not focus on group in when joining a random group for something ?

PUGS are random it is what is is not everyone is going to get along.
If you dont like that form a group, but random groups will always have some level of toxicity.
calling for nerfs and pushing hate on others play style certainly wont make this situation any better.

Daoin

i dont want to see HA nerfed i think its good, im just saying when sometimes joining a random and you see straight away in 'group' 3 other sorcs and your on your tank you know the path this things gone down then you leave join another group guess what ? more sorcs so you say i know i'll queue for a vet specific yep you got it a random group and one level 300 HA sorc,

jaws343

isadoraisacat wrote: »

loveeso wrote: »

I just found out from a kind stranger (thank you!) that our small forum thread has gained popularity on YouTube! It's exciting to see that our discussion has reached a wider audience and is sparking interest in the topic. Here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtyKqfiEoaA

If you are still interested in this discussion, don’t miss the latest update here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7867705/#Comment_7867705

i really dont think light or heavy attacks should be nerfed, i think people should learn to focus on themselves and stop worrying what other people do.

Firstly, if you watched the actual video, the title and the intro were tongue in cheek and the video was actually advocating for more heavy attack options.

Secondly, no. Game balance cannot be done by ignoring what others are doing. This is an MMO. The damage your build does, the damage my build does, and how those two builds interact with content, absolutely matter to one another and to the health of the game. This is NOT skyrim. By this game's very nature, what other people do is absolutely an important aspect of game balance.

isadoraisacat

jaws343 wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

loveeso wrote: »

I just found out from a kind stranger (thank you!) that our small forum thread has gained popularity on YouTube! It's exciting to see that our discussion has reached a wider audience and is sparking interest in the topic. Here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtyKqfiEoaA

If you are still interested in this discussion, don’t miss the latest update here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7867705/#Comment_7867705

i really dont think light or heavy attacks should be nerfed, i think people should learn to focus on themselves and stop worrying what other people do.

Firstly, if you watched the actual video, the title and the intro were tongue in cheek and the video was actually advocating for more heavy attack options.

Secondly, no. Game balance cannot be done by ignoring what others are doing. This is an MMO. The damage your build does, the damage my build does, and how those two builds interact with content, absolutely matter to one another and to the health of the game. This is NOT skyrim. By this game's very nature, what other people do is absolutely an important aspect of game balance.

Right, i understand what the video is saying but click bait titles like that only create more divide which is very clearly an issue in this game community atm.

wolfie1.0.

isadoraisacat wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

I wrote a big post above talking about the problems having the top end dps being extremely high (while nerfing the middle and low end).

From what I understand, the average dps in this game is roughly somewhere between 15-25k (before this nerf). This was hinted at with the introduction of companions, when the developers stated they did not want the companion dps to be higher than the average player’s.

So just think about what that means. The top dps, doing five to six times the average players dps.

Not twice or three times the average, but five to six times the average.

And in eso, where gear is kind of accessible, it means a lot of this difference falls upon the combat system itself.

Does that sound healthy for any game? If I was developing content for this game, I would not know where to begin.
How do I balance something “difficult”, twice the average dps? But the high end will destroy it.
80% of high end dps? Still too easy for them but how many people are going to see it anyway.

You have to create an accessible vet level, then a full throttle hard mode? Do we need to add layers in between now? That’s crazy.

I mean you don’t even need that because the majority of us playing these builds aren’t even doing the hard end game content.

The hardest for us is DLC dungeons on normal or vet non dlc. But after this nerf forget dlc dungeons I won’t be able to do those anymore at least not as a dps. So it’s just forcing me into changing my build up or making a new character and go as a healer.

If you aren't doing vet trials, and even if you are, the nerf won't stop you from being able to do them. Again, this is one of the smallest nerfs ZOS has ever put out (the nerf to empower) and changing gear sets is standard practice for every single player who does end game content (regarding the nerf to storm master). If you do anything less demanding than that content, it comes down to your mentality holding you back, not this nerf, dungeons depend a lot more on paying attention to things, and while high dps is needed from time to time, ultimates exist for a reason. Nothing is forcing you to play a healer, and if you want to participate in the highest tier of content, changing your build from patch to patch is the norm that everyone else deals with every patch, but for everything under that top tier of content, the damage loss won't kill you, this doom and gloom will.

There is no “doom and gloom” and I don’t want to be in the “highest tier” in already a very low dps player. I was hitting 15-18 k dps before using ha builds. Sucking wind. I have hand issues.

This build allows me to hit 30k and get though dlc dungeons I wasn’t able to before. The loss of dps has a major affect on the low end. Yes if your dps is 100k of course a small loss won’t matter. But when your dps is 27-30 k max of course any loss is going to set you back especially when you spent so much time upgrading gear for it a month later to be nerfed.

And once again there is no “doom and gloom” it’s being realistic. I can’t dps a normal build due to hand issues it’s not possible. This build is not something people want it’s clear the direction the combat is going and soon I will not be viable anymore with this build and people resent it. Why would I want to continue to play with others so resent how I play?

I’d rather switch roles and play the way I want (heavy attack ) solo … but with the dps loss it may not even be worth it solo.

I’ll definitely come back with results after it goes live I’ll make some records to show the loss. From tests I’ve seen it’s a massive hit to the low end.

Being realistic: If 100% of your damage comes form heavy attacks, and Empower is your only percentage buff to heavy attack damage, you are looking at a just under a 6% damage nerf. If you are wearing Oakensoul, using the weapons expert champion point node, those things dilute that nerf quite heavily, and if you use any abilities, like sorc pets or ground aoe's, and if you have enchantments doing damage on top of that, that 6% becomes even smaller. So, fact of the matter is, the empower nerf is barely on the table, if that nerf breaks your ability to do content, you have plenty of room to grow beyond what you were doing before.

Now Storm Master did get nerfed as well, but there are so many sets in the game to pick as alternatives, many from base zones, or are craftable, or are otherwise available from dungeons which means that, with the sticker book, you'll eventually get any piece you need no matter what. So let's spin the wheel over the hundreds of sets in ESO to find some alternatives that can work in most pieces of content aside from endgame trials.

You can use sets like Redmountain or Unfathomable Darkness, sets that drop form overland and just 'deal damage when you deal damage,' if you wanted to craft something you could use something like Torug's Pact, Oblivion's Foe, Red Eagle's Fury, New Moon Acolyte, Morkuldin, Coldharbour's Favorite, for just some sets that easily do damage or buff your damage output. Note that Red Eagle and New Moon Acolyte add bonus damage stats at the cost of making your skills cost more, but remember, heavy attack builds don't have sustain issues, you're heavy attacking all the time so the increased skill cost are nothing for those builds to deal with. Because, if you are at the 'low end,' you don't have as big of a need for raw damage, and there are so many more options open to you because of that, and if you are trying to push into higher end content, it is common for everyone there to have to swap gear between patches, and changing one base game dungeon set for another is very minor compared to what is normally required.

I’m wearing weapons expert I think it’s called
Which adds additional power to heavy attacks.
Sure I can swap gear but it will just get complained about once I switch and also nerfed. I’d rather just change roles and avoid all this non-sense all together at this point.

Even switching roles won't avoid it. Welcome to ESOs endgame. Zos changes combat every 3 to 6 months. It's been happening since the beginning and will likely continue. If you have a favorite endgame build, then anticipate changes...always anticipate changes. Especially if you want to clear harder content.

If your just playing easier content like most players do then you can honestly (and many do) ignore all of the changes made by zos to combat in the last 3 years.

It's only those that strive for harder content that really notice the difference.

isadoraisacat

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

I wrote a big post above talking about the problems having the top end dps being extremely high (while nerfing the middle and low end).

From what I understand, the average dps in this game is roughly somewhere between 15-25k (before this nerf). This was hinted at with the introduction of companions, when the developers stated they did not want the companion dps to be higher than the average player’s.

So just think about what that means. The top dps, doing five to six times the average players dps.

Not twice or three times the average, but five to six times the average.

And in eso, where gear is kind of accessible, it means a lot of this difference falls upon the combat system itself.

Does that sound healthy for any game? If I was developing content for this game, I would not know where to begin.
How do I balance something “difficult”, twice the average dps? But the high end will destroy it.
80% of high end dps? Still too easy for them but how many people are going to see it anyway.

You have to create an accessible vet level, then a full throttle hard mode? Do we need to add layers in between now? That’s crazy.

I mean you don’t even need that because the majority of us playing these builds aren’t even doing the hard end game content.

The hardest for us is DLC dungeons on normal or vet non dlc. But after this nerf forget dlc dungeons I won’t be able to do those anymore at least not as a dps. So it’s just forcing me into changing my build up or making a new character and go as a healer.

If you aren't doing vet trials, and even if you are, the nerf won't stop you from being able to do them. Again, this is one of the smallest nerfs ZOS has ever put out (the nerf to empower) and changing gear sets is standard practice for every single player who does end game content (regarding the nerf to storm master). If you do anything less demanding than that content, it comes down to your mentality holding you back, not this nerf, dungeons depend a lot more on paying attention to things, and while high dps is needed from time to time, ultimates exist for a reason. Nothing is forcing you to play a healer, and if you want to participate in the highest tier of content, changing your build from patch to patch is the norm that everyone else deals with every patch, but for everything under that top tier of content, the damage loss won't kill you, this doom and gloom will.

There is no “doom and gloom” and I don’t want to be in the “highest tier” in already a very low dps player. I was hitting 15-18 k dps before using ha builds. Sucking wind. I have hand issues.

This build allows me to hit 30k and get though dlc dungeons I wasn’t able to before. The loss of dps has a major affect on the low end. Yes if your dps is 100k of course a small loss won’t matter. But when your dps is 27-30 k max of course any loss is going to set you back especially when you spent so much time upgrading gear for it a month later to be nerfed.

And once again there is no “doom and gloom” it’s being realistic. I can’t dps a normal build due to hand issues it’s not possible. This build is not something people want it’s clear the direction the combat is going and soon I will not be viable anymore with this build and people resent it. Why would I want to continue to play with others so resent how I play?

I’d rather switch roles and play the way I want (heavy attack ) solo … but with the dps loss it may not even be worth it solo.

I’ll definitely come back with results after it goes live I’ll make some records to show the loss. From tests I’ve seen it’s a massive hit to the low end.

Being realistic: If 100% of your damage comes form heavy attacks, and Empower is your only percentage buff to heavy attack damage, you are looking at a just under a 6% damage nerf. If you are wearing Oakensoul, using the weapons expert champion point node, those things dilute that nerf quite heavily, and if you use any abilities, like sorc pets or ground aoe's, and if you have enchantments doing damage on top of that, that 6% becomes even smaller. So, fact of the matter is, the empower nerf is barely on the table, if that nerf breaks your ability to do content, you have plenty of room to grow beyond what you were doing before.

Now Storm Master did get nerfed as well, but there are so many sets in the game to pick as alternatives, many from base zones, or are craftable, or are otherwise available from dungeons which means that, with the sticker book, you'll eventually get any piece you need no matter what. So let's spin the wheel over the hundreds of sets in ESO to find some alternatives that can work in most pieces of content aside from endgame trials.

You can use sets like Redmountain or Unfathomable Darkness, sets that drop form overland and just 'deal damage when you deal damage,' if you wanted to craft something you could use something like Torug's Pact, Oblivion's Foe, Red Eagle's Fury, New Moon Acolyte, Morkuldin, Coldharbour's Favorite, for just some sets that easily do damage or buff your damage output. Note that Red Eagle and New Moon Acolyte add bonus damage stats at the cost of making your skills cost more, but remember, heavy attack builds don't have sustain issues, you're heavy attacking all the time so the increased skill cost are nothing for those builds to deal with. Because, if you are at the 'low end,' you don't have as big of a need for raw damage, and there are so many more options open to you because of that, and if you are trying to push into higher end content, it is common for everyone there to have to swap gear between patches, and changing one base game dungeon set for another is very minor compared to what is normally required.

I’m wearing weapons expert I think it’s called
Which adds additional power to heavy attacks.
Sure I can swap gear but it will just get complained about once I switch and also nerfed. I’d rather just change roles and avoid all this non-sense all together at this point.

Even switching roles won't avoid it. Welcome to ESOs endgame. Zos changes combat every 3 to 6 months. It's been happening since the beginning and will likely continue. If you have a favorite endgame build, then anticipate changes...always anticipate changes. Especially if you want to clear harder content.

If your just playing easier content like most players do then you can honestly (and many do) ignore all of the changes made by zos to combat in the last 3 years.

It's only those that strive for harder content that really notice the difference.

sure but i will never know unless i change roles.
its the technique and how its performed i may enjoy more and be able to work with easier.
ive only ever done dps so i will never know unless i try.

wolfie1.0.

isadoraisacat wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

I wrote a big post above talking about the problems having the top end dps being extremely high (while nerfing the middle and low end).

From what I understand, the average dps in this game is roughly somewhere between 15-25k (before this nerf). This was hinted at with the introduction of companions, when the developers stated they did not want the companion dps to be higher than the average player’s.

So just think about what that means. The top dps, doing five to six times the average players dps.

Not twice or three times the average, but five to six times the average.

And in eso, where gear is kind of accessible, it means a lot of this difference falls upon the combat system itself.

Does that sound healthy for any game? If I was developing content for this game, I would not know where to begin.
How do I balance something “difficult”, twice the average dps? But the high end will destroy it.
80% of high end dps? Still too easy for them but how many people are going to see it anyway.

You have to create an accessible vet level, then a full throttle hard mode? Do we need to add layers in between now? That’s crazy.

I mean you don’t even need that because the majority of us playing these builds aren’t even doing the hard end game content.

The hardest for us is DLC dungeons on normal or vet non dlc. But after this nerf forget dlc dungeons I won’t be able to do those anymore at least not as a dps. So it’s just forcing me into changing my build up or making a new character and go as a healer.

If you aren't doing vet trials, and even if you are, the nerf won't stop you from being able to do them. Again, this is one of the smallest nerfs ZOS has ever put out (the nerf to empower) and changing gear sets is standard practice for every single player who does end game content (regarding the nerf to storm master). If you do anything less demanding than that content, it comes down to your mentality holding you back, not this nerf, dungeons depend a lot more on paying attention to things, and while high dps is needed from time to time, ultimates exist for a reason. Nothing is forcing you to play a healer, and if you want to participate in the highest tier of content, changing your build from patch to patch is the norm that everyone else deals with every patch, but for everything under that top tier of content, the damage loss won't kill you, this doom and gloom will.

There is no “doom and gloom” and I don’t want to be in the “highest tier” in already a very low dps player. I was hitting 15-18 k dps before using ha builds. Sucking wind. I have hand issues.

This build allows me to hit 30k and get though dlc dungeons I wasn’t able to before. The loss of dps has a major affect on the low end. Yes if your dps is 100k of course a small loss won’t matter. But when your dps is 27-30 k max of course any loss is going to set you back especially when you spent so much time upgrading gear for it a month later to be nerfed.

And once again there is no “doom and gloom” it’s being realistic. I can’t dps a normal build due to hand issues it’s not possible. This build is not something people want it’s clear the direction the combat is going and soon I will not be viable anymore with this build and people resent it. Why would I want to continue to play with others so resent how I play?

I’d rather switch roles and play the way I want (heavy attack ) solo … but with the dps loss it may not even be worth it solo.

I’ll definitely come back with results after it goes live I’ll make some records to show the loss. From tests I’ve seen it’s a massive hit to the low end.

Being realistic: If 100% of your damage comes form heavy attacks, and Empower is your only percentage buff to heavy attack damage, you are looking at a just under a 6% damage nerf. If you are wearing Oakensoul, using the weapons expert champion point node, those things dilute that nerf quite heavily, and if you use any abilities, like sorc pets or ground aoe's, and if you have enchantments doing damage on top of that, that 6% becomes even smaller. So, fact of the matter is, the empower nerf is barely on the table, if that nerf breaks your ability to do content, you have plenty of room to grow beyond what you were doing before.

Now Storm Master did get nerfed as well, but there are so many sets in the game to pick as alternatives, many from base zones, or are craftable, or are otherwise available from dungeons which means that, with the sticker book, you'll eventually get any piece you need no matter what. So let's spin the wheel over the hundreds of sets in ESO to find some alternatives that can work in most pieces of content aside from endgame trials.

You can use sets like Redmountain or Unfathomable Darkness, sets that drop form overland and just 'deal damage when you deal damage,' if you wanted to craft something you could use something like Torug's Pact, Oblivion's Foe, Red Eagle's Fury, New Moon Acolyte, Morkuldin, Coldharbour's Favorite, for just some sets that easily do damage or buff your damage output. Note that Red Eagle and New Moon Acolyte add bonus damage stats at the cost of making your skills cost more, but remember, heavy attack builds don't have sustain issues, you're heavy attacking all the time so the increased skill cost are nothing for those builds to deal with. Because, if you are at the 'low end,' you don't have as big of a need for raw damage, and there are so many more options open to you because of that, and if you are trying to push into higher end content, it is common for everyone there to have to swap gear between patches, and changing one base game dungeon set for another is very minor compared to what is normally required.

I’m wearing weapons expert I think it’s called
Which adds additional power to heavy attacks.
Sure I can swap gear but it will just get complained about once I switch and also nerfed. I’d rather just change roles and avoid all this non-sense all together at this point.

Even switching roles won't avoid it. Welcome to ESOs endgame. Zos changes combat every 3 to 6 months. It's been happening since the beginning and will likely continue. If you have a favorite endgame build, then anticipate changes...always anticipate changes. Especially if you want to clear harder content.

If your just playing easier content like most players do then you can honestly (and many do) ignore all of the changes made by zos to combat in the last 3 years.

It's only those that strive for harder content that really notice the difference.

sure but i will never know unless i change roles.
its the technique and how its performed i may enjoy more and be able to work with easier.
ive only ever done dps so i will never know unless i try.

I suggest healing then, I find it relaxing sometimes compared to dps.

isadoraisacat

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

I wrote a big post above talking about the problems having the top end dps being extremely high (while nerfing the middle and low end).

From what I understand, the average dps in this game is roughly somewhere between 15-25k (before this nerf). This was hinted at with the introduction of companions, when the developers stated they did not want the companion dps to be higher than the average player’s.

So just think about what that means. The top dps, doing five to six times the average players dps.

Not twice or three times the average, but five to six times the average.

And in eso, where gear is kind of accessible, it means a lot of this difference falls upon the combat system itself.

Does that sound healthy for any game? If I was developing content for this game, I would not know where to begin.
How do I balance something “difficult”, twice the average dps? But the high end will destroy it.
80% of high end dps? Still too easy for them but how many people are going to see it anyway.

You have to create an accessible vet level, then a full throttle hard mode? Do we need to add layers in between now? That’s crazy.

I mean you don’t even need that because the majority of us playing these builds aren’t even doing the hard end game content.

The hardest for us is DLC dungeons on normal or vet non dlc. But after this nerf forget dlc dungeons I won’t be able to do those anymore at least not as a dps. So it’s just forcing me into changing my build up or making a new character and go as a healer.

If you aren't doing vet trials, and even if you are, the nerf won't stop you from being able to do them. Again, this is one of the smallest nerfs ZOS has ever put out (the nerf to empower) and changing gear sets is standard practice for every single player who does end game content (regarding the nerf to storm master). If you do anything less demanding than that content, it comes down to your mentality holding you back, not this nerf, dungeons depend a lot more on paying attention to things, and while high dps is needed from time to time, ultimates exist for a reason. Nothing is forcing you to play a healer, and if you want to participate in the highest tier of content, changing your build from patch to patch is the norm that everyone else deals with every patch, but for everything under that top tier of content, the damage loss won't kill you, this doom and gloom will.

There is no “doom and gloom” and I don’t want to be in the “highest tier” in already a very low dps player. I was hitting 15-18 k dps before using ha builds. Sucking wind. I have hand issues.

This build allows me to hit 30k and get though dlc dungeons I wasn’t able to before. The loss of dps has a major affect on the low end. Yes if your dps is 100k of course a small loss won’t matter. But when your dps is 27-30 k max of course any loss is going to set you back especially when you spent so much time upgrading gear for it a month later to be nerfed.

And once again there is no “doom and gloom” it’s being realistic. I can’t dps a normal build due to hand issues it’s not possible. This build is not something people want it’s clear the direction the combat is going and soon I will not be viable anymore with this build and people resent it. Why would I want to continue to play with others so resent how I play?

I’d rather switch roles and play the way I want (heavy attack ) solo … but with the dps loss it may not even be worth it solo.

I’ll definitely come back with results after it goes live I’ll make some records to show the loss. From tests I’ve seen it’s a massive hit to the low end.

Being realistic: If 100% of your damage comes form heavy attacks, and Empower is your only percentage buff to heavy attack damage, you are looking at a just under a 6% damage nerf. If you are wearing Oakensoul, using the weapons expert champion point node, those things dilute that nerf quite heavily, and if you use any abilities, like sorc pets or ground aoe's, and if you have enchantments doing damage on top of that, that 6% becomes even smaller. So, fact of the matter is, the empower nerf is barely on the table, if that nerf breaks your ability to do content, you have plenty of room to grow beyond what you were doing before.

Now Storm Master did get nerfed as well, but there are so many sets in the game to pick as alternatives, many from base zones, or are craftable, or are otherwise available from dungeons which means that, with the sticker book, you'll eventually get any piece you need no matter what. So let's spin the wheel over the hundreds of sets in ESO to find some alternatives that can work in most pieces of content aside from endgame trials.

You can use sets like Redmountain or Unfathomable Darkness, sets that drop form overland and just 'deal damage when you deal damage,' if you wanted to craft something you could use something like Torug's Pact, Oblivion's Foe, Red Eagle's Fury, New Moon Acolyte, Morkuldin, Coldharbour's Favorite, for just some sets that easily do damage or buff your damage output. Note that Red Eagle and New Moon Acolyte add bonus damage stats at the cost of making your skills cost more, but remember, heavy attack builds don't have sustain issues, you're heavy attacking all the time so the increased skill cost are nothing for those builds to deal with. Because, if you are at the 'low end,' you don't have as big of a need for raw damage, and there are so many more options open to you because of that, and if you are trying to push into higher end content, it is common for everyone there to have to swap gear between patches, and changing one base game dungeon set for another is very minor compared to what is normally required.

I’m wearing weapons expert I think it’s called
Which adds additional power to heavy attacks.
Sure I can swap gear but it will just get complained about once I switch and also nerfed. I’d rather just change roles and avoid all this non-sense all together at this point.

Even switching roles won't avoid it. Welcome to ESOs endgame. Zos changes combat every 3 to 6 months. It's been happening since the beginning and will likely continue. If you have a favorite endgame build, then anticipate changes...always anticipate changes. Especially if you want to clear harder content.

If your just playing easier content like most players do then you can honestly (and many do) ignore all of the changes made by zos to combat in the last 3 years.

It's only those that strive for harder content that really notice the difference.

sure but i will never know unless i change roles.
its the technique and how its performed i may enjoy more and be able to work with easier.
ive only ever done dps so i will never know unless i try.

I suggest healing then, I find it relaxing sometimes compared to dps.

Yeah I like the idea of being a healer and and support role. I think it looks cool. I’ve seen other healers play and I like how it looks. I think sometimes you just need to find what suits you better. I’m gonna give healer and try and see how I like it. Worst comes to worst I find the other role or tank suits me better. Only way to find out is try.

ACamaroGuy

Heavy attack bills already have their limits. Take Cloudrest for example. There's a bar swap. If you play the Oakensoul one bar...well, you can't run this trial. So much for the play how you want to play philosophy. Instead of nerfing the heavy attack build, which most people don't want in their trials for end game, up the power of the two bar builds.

vsrs_au

I haven't been playing much ESO lately. Instead, I've just been logging on to collect the daily reward, do crafting writs and daily endeavours, then I logout again, and continue playing my current alternative game (an offline one).

All these anti-HA and anti-Oakensoul threads have been killing my motivation to play, particularly after I mentioned online to a guildmaster of a guild I belong to that I got Oakensoul, and got a reply saying it's basically a braindead approach. I was tempted to leave that guild then and there, but decided to let myself cool down first, and haven't left it (yet).

Galeriano

loveeso wrote: »

Recap of Anti-HA Rhetoric

After carefully perusing various forum posts, I have collated a summary of arguments put forth by players who employ LA DD builds as to why players who utilize Heavy Attack (HA) play style ought to be weakened. Here are the arguments:

1.
Argument: “HA is so OP that it is best in end-game content - for example look at vAS+2!” (Yes, they always use vAS+2 as an “example” )

Reality: The vAS+2 trial is an outlier (see below) so this argument is insincere but even in vAS+2 LA teams are performing better than HA teams. The best HA team took approximately 32% longer than the best LA team to complete the trial.

What the anti-HA players conveniently fail to mention is that HA teams are completely destroyed by LA teams in all the other trials (see the DPS tables below) which means that for the sake of honesty this anti-HA argument should be rewritten as follows: “While LA builds reign supreme in 91% of end-game content, in the remaining 9% HA builds perform only 32% worse. Nerf them even more!”


Figure 1: Top DPS tables in all the other (10!) trials. It's just the first page and it's followed by pages and pages completely dominated by LA DDs. Just go to the logs website and check it out yourself - you will see how much LA meta outclasses HA. The difference is so huge that it looks ridiculous But yeah, let's nerf HA


2.
Argument: “HA builds are much tankier than my LA build! Too tanky! It’s not fair! Nerf their DPS!”

Reality: I have already shown why this excuse to nerf HA builds does not make sense in this post ( https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7857529/#Comment_7857529 ) but I have some additional comments, please continue reading.

First of all, it is not true, as it’s not related to HA but to the Oakensoul ring. Not all HA builds use Oakensoul, and not all Oakensoul peeps use HA, some of them are LA players… and guess what, the nerf tested on the PTS targets HA players, not Oakensoul players.

Having said that, any LA can easily be made as tanky as an Oakensoul build. Here are simple examples how:

• Stop using parse food and get food which increases your health - you will lose a tiny bit of your DPS but you will have more health.
• Slap prismatic defence on your armour and get more health and magicka or stamina: you will lose just a few % of your super high LA DPS.
• In any group content you should already get Major Resolve from your Warden healer or tank so you get the same 6000 armour as Oakensoul players.
• Still salty about not having that 5% damage mitigation from Minor Aegis? You have more bar space than 1bar builds, slap Flare on your bar, you will get 10% damage mitigation (or you can swap one of your sets to a set that provides Minor Aegis… or do both and get 10% + 5% damage mitigation)..

The above will make you as tanky as any Oakensoul player. Yes, you will have lower DPS than on your glass-cannon LA build but, guess what, Oakensoul builds pay for their tankiness with their DPS. Good news, if you know how to play, your tanky two-bar LA build will still have higher DPS output than those pesky HA builds.

3.
Argument: “My LA build has problems with sustain and HA builds don’t have any problems with sustain! It’s not fair! Nerf their DPS!”

Reality: If you know what you are doing on a well-designed LA build in a well-composed group (we are talking about end-game content here, aren’t we), you should not have any problems with sustain (especially nowadays, when sustain is so much easier with hybrid builds). If you are still envious of those pesky HA players with their annoying sustain, here are some simple examples of what you can do to have better sustain:

• Stop using Increase Magical/Physical Harm on all your jewellery pieces and get regeneration or decrease cost glyphs - you will sustain without any problem and you will lose just a few percent of your DPS
• Use a heavy attack every now and then to get resources - you will lose a tiny bit of your DPS but it will still be higher than HA DPS (unless you haven’t got skilled yet). Can’t get Magicka with your greatsword and daggers? Well, it was your choice to equip Stamina weapons on both bars - equip a staff on your back bar.
• Modify your build even more, e.g. you can choose a different race, or change your weapons and skills and get better sustain at the cost of DPS (your DPS will still be higher than that of HA builds unless you don’t know what you are doing but in that case either “get good” or… switch to a heavy attack build)

***

As you can see from the above, the "arguments" most commonly employed by HA haters are either insincere or nonsensical. Moreover, the anti-HA rhetoric suffers from another, more significant flaw. The HA critics often fixate on just one HA build, the Oakensoul Sorcerer with a Lightning staff (and often, two pets), to argue for nerfing the whole HA play style. However, when questioned about the need to nerf all the other HA builds that use different classes, weapons, or lack Oakensoul, they either ignore the question or provide weak “justifications” such as "it's not a significant nerf." Such responses fail to address the central issue: why nerf HA builds at all? As has been demonstrated in this thread and in many, many other places, their DPS output is already much lower than that of the two-bar LA meta. This holds true even for Oakensoul lightning sorcerers with their two pets.

To address the elephant in the room, here is an example of a heavy-attack build that is not a sorcerer, does not utilize pets, and relies on weapons other than the lightning staff:


Figure 2: A non-sorcerer non-lightning equivalent to the one-button HA build and the one-skill LA build that we discussed earlier in this thread.

DPS on the trial dummy: 35k (i.e. only 25% of LA meta - but why stop here, let's nerf HA even more! )

As you can see, such HA builds have atrociously low DPS, yet the anti-HA camp calls for nerfs to all HA builds, including those that differ significantly from the Oakensoul lightning sorcerer with pets. This demand is entirely irrational. Instead, a rational approach would be to leave the lightning sorcerer builds (which are already weaker than the LA meta) as they are and bring all other HA builds up to their level.

This post above contains lots of incorrect informations. So many in fact that I will just focus on the most important ones.

Argument 1 - First of all that initial paragraph contains phrase that is taken out of context and whole argumentation is later based around it. It suggest that people are claiming that HA setup is the best in end game content and the example of that is vAS HM. It's extremly twisted version of what was really said. People who are saying that HA setups are too strong are usually suggesting that it dominates in low and mid game and occasionaly in end game with vAS HM being the most visible example. Nobody is saying that one bar HA setup is the best DPS wise everywhere in end game.

I also really like how post creator decided to use percentage value instead of time value to describe time difference so it would sound more dramatic.

Argument 2 and 3 can be pretty much summarised as advising everyone who don't like HA setups to just drop DPS in multiple ways (which at the end will result with massive DPS drop) just to get similar single target DPS results as one bar HA setups are getting with similar sustain and defense. News flash these results still won't be reached.

I also must say that some advices are over the top for example saying people to just buy race change or to just have warden with them so they will have easy acces to resistance buff. The amount of things proposed to do just to meet the criteria set by one bar HA setups is ridicolous in itself.


Simple advice to post creator. Instead of linking multiple screenshots with many of them being out of context and giving multiple advices telling others what to do just show us a real setup in action. Provide us with a parses from a setup that will have high sustain, high defense, good single target plus AOE and will have simple static rotation. You are making lots of claims that it's possible and how to achieve it so why not just show this to everyone to finally prove Your point and silence everyone who is claiming that HA setups are too strong all things considered. Just prove us wrong.

I will even give You a baseline to Your testing. Here is my parse I did. 100k single target with 70% of it being AoE dmg. Simple static rotation, unlimited sustain as You can see in reg/s vs drain/s values, 27,5k resistances and 32,2k HP and additional 10% dmg reduction from minor aegis+protection.

Oh and the side note I was stamina oriented so while my magicka sustain was unlimited to use abilities I still had 34k stamina which in real content would allow me to utilise block, dodge and some stamina abilities without any issues. Now the scene is Yours. Please provide us with something similar that isn't one bar HA oakensoul setup. And by similar I mean around 100k single target with around 70k AoE at the same time , over 30k HP over 27k resistances, additional 10% dmg reduction, simple static rotation and unlimited sustain.

joergino

vsrs_au wrote: »

I haven't been playing much ESO lately. Instead, I've just been logging on to collect the daily reward, do crafting writs and daily endeavours, then I logout again, and continue playing my current alternative game (an offline one).

All these anti-HA and anti-Oakensoul threads have been killing my motivation to play,

Absolutely the same here. I only do my daily routine stuff these days because I finally realized that absolutely everything you have or might even enjoy using will be destroyed very soon by the "community" and all the nerf-cryers in it. I don't know why there are people who say that the ESO community is so great. There seem to be verbal battles to the death for the pettiest of reasons and envy seems to be the only constant that is available in abundance.
Thinking that I very briefly felt happy last year because I (wrongly, of course) thought I could some more of my characters actually playable.
Ah well, no point in talking about this anymore. Or anything else, for that matter. It is all shouted down by the elite folk.

isadoraisacat

vsrs_au wrote: »

I haven't been playing much ESO lately. Instead, I've just been logging on to collect the daily reward, do crafting writs and daily endeavours, then I logout again, and continue playing my current alternative game (an offline one).

All these anti-HA and anti-Oakensoul threads have been killing my motivation to play, particularly after I mentioned online to a guildmaster of a guild I belong to that I got Oakensoul, and got a reply saying it's basically a braindead approach. I was tempted to leave that guild then and there, but decided to let myself cool down first, and haven't left it (yet).

I commend you for your patience. I was recently accepted into a. Guild who is helping me become a healer they are very nice. Rather than me get upset I realize dps just isn’t for me even oakensoul stuff aside. It doesn’t suit my personality. Heavy attack builds are great for solo play tho which I do mostly so I’m going to still use it when I play solo.

But if you don’t feel comfortable after unkind words nothing wrong with leaving and finding another guild. It seems you need to hop around until you find the right one anyway.

isadoraisacat

joergino wrote: »

vsrs_au wrote: »

I haven't been playing much ESO lately. Instead, I've just been logging on to collect the daily reward, do crafting writs and daily endeavours, then I logout again, and continue playing my current alternative game (an offline one).

All these anti-HA and anti-Oakensoul threads have been killing my motivation to play,

Absolutely the same here. I only do my daily routine stuff these days because I finally realized that absolutely everything you have or might even enjoy using will be destroyed very soon by the "community" and all the nerf-cryers in it. I don't know why there are people who say that the ESO community is so great. There seem to be verbal battles to the death for the pettiest of reasons and envy seems to be the only constant that is available in abundance.
Thinking that I very briefly felt happy last year because I (wrongly, of course) thought I could some more of my characters actually playable.
Ah well, no point in talking about this anymore. Or anything else, for that matter. It is all shouted down by the elite folk.

At this point im going enjoy playing with those who are nice to me. But mostly im here for the lore / main stories. But I do agree with what you are saying. There is very little point in discussing it here for the reasons stated.

Kusto

ACamaroGuy wrote: »

Heavy attack bills already have their limits. Take Cloudrest for example. There's a bar swap. If you play the Oakensoul one bar...well, you can't run this trial. So much for the play how you want to play philosophy. Instead of nerfing the heavy attack build, which most people don't want in their trials for end game, up the power of the two bar builds.

Oakensoul works just fine there. In fact its ez mode because you have 1 less mechanic to worry about. Oaken players do not get the bar swap mechanic unless there are no other players alive to get it. But at that point it's a wipe anyways. When 2 bar player gets the mechanic and dies to it because they didn't bar swap, then and ONLY THEN it can get passed on to oaken player. And even then its not a big deal because you can just run to the other side of arena and the lightning won't reach group. And you can survive that easily because you're so tanky, just spam self heal.
I've been farming +1 with it and never gotten the mechanic. +1 feels like +0 for oaken users. Also I solo portals with it and pull top dps in pug or more casual groups. OakenHA is op af.

BlueRaven

Z

vsrs_au wrote: »

I haven't been playing much ESO lately. Instead, I've just been logging on to collect the daily reward, do crafting writs and daily endeavours, then I logout again, and continue playing my current alternative game (an offline one).

All these anti-HA and anti-Oakensoul threads have been killing my motivation to play, particularly after I mentioned online to a guildmaster of a guild I belong to that I got Oakensoul, and got a reply saying it's basically a braindead approach. I was tempted to leave that guild then and there, but decided to let myself cool down first, and haven't left it (yet).

I don’t want to derail the thread, but zos even took away world events from casual solo players. They turned into the grouped dungeon “thing” inexplicably.
So in Necrom it feels like there is even less to do.

This chapter feels very disappointing, but at least I can start catching up on some other games.

isadoraisacat

BlueRaven wrote: »

Z

vsrs_au wrote: »

I haven't been playing much ESO lately. Instead, I've just been logging on to collect the daily reward, do crafting writs and daily endeavours, then I logout again, and continue playing my current alternative game (an offline one).

All these anti-HA and anti-Oakensoul threads have been killing my motivation to play, particularly after I mentioned online to a guildmaster of a guild I belong to that I got Oakensoul, and got a reply saying it's basically a braindead approach. I was tempted to leave that guild then and there, but decided to let myself cool down first, and haven't left it (yet).

I don’t want to derail the thread, but zos even took away world events from casual solo players. They turned into the grouped dungeon “thing” inexplicably.
So in Necrom it feels like there is even less to do.

This chapter feels very disappointing, but at least I can start catching up on some other games.

Yeah from what I have seen I’m not very impressed with necrom.

Elsweyr And summerset to me were my favorites.
I’m prob bias because I like the Khajiit the best and love raz.

The world events are disappointing because even dolemens I can solo now with my companion.
Most world bosses I can solo.

The only real thing that impossible to solo really a dragons as a world event.

I guess I’ll just have to try to group up try out of few of these but yeah. Wish it was more solo friendly in the overland.

I also feel necrom (form what I saw ) looks the same as eso’s version vvardenfell which is a little disappointing.

vsrs_au

I don't understand the comments about the Necrom world events. Is it a group-only mechanic, or are they just too strong for most players to solo? What's the deal there? (or is there more info in the PTS sub-forum)

isadoraisacat

vsrs_au wrote: »

I don't understand the comments about the Necrom world events. Is it a group-only mechanic, or are they just too strong for most players to solo? What's the deal there? (or is there more info in the PTS sub-forum)

Yeah they appear to be world events that have too much going on to solo yourself that require multiple people to complete from what I have seen.

https://youtu.be/dRkYNGM0vv0

Eliran

I understand you have disability but it doesn't justify the fact that I have to work 10 times harder than you and we both get the same achievement for it.

Its not ZoS nor ESO, that's how gaming life is, same as I will never be at the pro league of CSGO/LoL even though I am not disabled.

Not everyone are born to be champions in every game/sport, we are all born different, you could say being tall/short is also disability in Basket Ball, does it justify lowering the Basket Height? no it does not.

HA Sorcs have caused enough damage already, not even talking just about the DPS but also about survivability, take vCA Trifecta for example, second boss drop > I stand on mine I die instantly > HA Sorc can soak 2 mines before they die = how is that fair?

HA sorc broke the game, now its time to fix it, enough playing easy mode.

Liguar

isadoraisacat wrote: »

Yeah they appear to be world events that have too much going on to solo yourself that require multiple people to complete from what I have seen.

About world events I haven't looked much into Necrom (imagine that I WAS really excited about it, and then not so much) so I can't compare the new stuff to other DLC world events (dragons, harrowstorms etc.) that pretty much require grouping to be done. I have solo'd a harrowstorm once on my petless sorc, but it was more to see if I could and not something I enjoy enough to repeat.

I do like harrowstorms with a few other people though. Dragons in N.E. were a pain to get done, not just because fewer people were there but also because most of them are miles away from a wayshrine. From Arttea's video (thanks for linking) it looks like some of the stuff is similar, but other things require actually grouping. From having to farm drops more in a smaller group, to the point where she points out that she enjoyed the challenge of the mechanics in a duo, which from an endgame player leads me to believe it's not going to be that straightforward for those of us that aren't.

If that's going to be the case then what about using similar mechanics to other MMOs where you get automatically grouped with other players in an area to team up and do a group event. Which is what we do anyway at dragons and harrowstorms, without being forced to literally group. I will still attempt it in a duo at some point, but again, I'm not super excited anymore.

The one thing that I am looking forward to is the endless dungeon designed for two, which can be a player solo, a player plus companion, or two players. But definitely not going to hurry out and get Necrom at this point, I'm going to wait and see what other people think of the two player dungeon system later in the year.

Tradewind

Eliran wrote: »

I understand you have disability but it doesn't justify the fact that I have to work 10 times harder than you and we both get the same achievement for it.

Always the same excuse. Always;
"But it doesn't justify the fact that I have to work 10 times harder than you, and we both get the same achievement for it."
It's not fair that HA players get that achievement by just playing the game, but if they buy it, it is. Funny.

If what you are saying was legitimate, you would be asking to end the ride service. However, no one is asking for that because no one cares about the achievements of others.
All the players who are asking for and approving the nerf are doing it only for their own profit and self pride.

After all, ESO is not just a virtual game, but rather, it involves real-life actions. Those who have money will always be treated better than those who don't.