Thoughts of a Random Guy on Necrom Changes to HA / Heavy-Attack builds & on Arcanist

isadoraisacat · May 2023

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

And yeah, if your cp isn't complete, the build isn't complete. CP adds a ton of power to heavies.

Right well I have my cp points maxed out for weapons expert and the the that does off balance both fully maxed. I’m sure there are other mini perks.

But even if that was the case I won’t be maxed out to max cp level any time soon. I don’t have 100s of hours to devote to grinding levels.

I don't think there's any way to use more than about 1800 CP at once, and probably well less than that.

Right I’m at I think 683 now ?
I’m using fully maxed out combat perks all for heavy attack build.

CP5 · May 2023

isadoraisacat wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

I wrote a big post above talking about the problems having the top end dps being extremely high (while nerfing the middle and low end).

From what I understand, the average dps in this game is roughly somewhere between 15-25k (before this nerf). This was hinted at with the introduction of companions, when the developers stated they did not want the companion dps to be higher than the average player’s.

So just think about what that means. The top dps, doing five to six times the average players dps.

Not twice or three times the average, but five to six times the average.

And in eso, where gear is kind of accessible, it means a lot of this difference falls upon the combat system itself.

Does that sound healthy for any game? If I was developing content for this game, I would not know where to begin.
How do I balance something “difficult”, twice the average dps? But the high end will destroy it.
80% of high end dps? Still too easy for them but how many people are going to see it anyway.

You have to create an accessible vet level, then a full throttle hard mode? Do we need to add layers in between now? That’s crazy.

I mean you don’t even need that because the majority of us playing these builds aren’t even doing the hard end game content.

The hardest for us is DLC dungeons on normal or vet non dlc. But after this nerf forget dlc dungeons I won’t be able to do those anymore at least not as a dps. So it’s just forcing me into changing my build up or making a new character and go as a healer.

If you aren't doing vet trials, and even if you are, the nerf won't stop you from being able to do them. Again, this is one of the smallest nerfs ZOS has ever put out (the nerf to empower) and changing gear sets is standard practice for every single player who does end game content (regarding the nerf to storm master). If you do anything less demanding than that content, it comes down to your mentality holding you back, not this nerf, dungeons depend a lot more on paying attention to things, and while high dps is needed from time to time, ultimates exist for a reason. Nothing is forcing you to play a healer, and if you want to participate in the highest tier of content, changing your build from patch to patch is the norm that everyone else deals with every patch, but for everything under that top tier of content, the damage loss won't kill you, this doom and gloom will.

There is no “doom and gloom” and I don’t want to be in the “highest tier” in already a very low dps player. I was hitting 15-18 k dps before using ha builds. Sucking wind. I have hand issues.

This build allows me to hit 30k and get though dlc dungeons I wasn’t able to before. The loss of dps has a major affect on the low end. Yes if your dps is 100k of course a small loss won’t matter. But when your dps is 27-30 k max of course any loss is going to set you back especially when you spent so much time upgrading gear for it a month later to be nerfed.

And once again there is no “doom and gloom” it’s being realistic. I can’t dps a normal build due to hand issues it’s not possible. This build is not something people want it’s clear the direction the combat is going and soon I will not be viable anymore with this build and people resent it. Why would I want to continue to play with others so resent how I play?

I’d rather switch roles and play the way I want (heavy attack ) solo … but with the dps loss it may not even be worth it solo.

I’ll definitely come back with results after it goes live I’ll make some records to show the loss. From tests I’ve seen it’s a massive hit to the low end.

Being realistic: If 100% of your damage comes form heavy attacks, and Empower is your only percentage buff to heavy attack damage, you are looking at a just under a 6% damage nerf. If you are wearing Oakensoul, using the weapons expert champion point node, those things dilute that nerf quite heavily, and if you use any abilities, like sorc pets or ground aoe's, and if you have enchantments doing damage on top of that, that 6% becomes even smaller. So, fact of the matter is, the empower nerf is barely on the table, if that nerf breaks your ability to do content, you have plenty of room to grow beyond what you were doing before.

Now Storm Master did get nerfed as well, but there are so many sets in the game to pick as alternatives, many from base zones, or are craftable, or are otherwise available from dungeons which means that, with the sticker book, you'll eventually get any piece you need no matter what. So let's spin the wheel over the hundreds of sets in ESO to find some alternatives that can work in most pieces of content aside from endgame trials.

You can use sets like Redmountain or Unfathomable Darkness, sets that drop form overland and just 'deal damage when you deal damage,' if you wanted to craft something you could use something like Torug's Pact, Oblivion's Foe, Red Eagle's Fury, New Moon Acolyte, Morkuldin, Coldharbour's Favorite, for just some sets that easily do damage or buff your damage output. Note that Red Eagle and New Moon Acolyte add bonus damage stats at the cost of making your skills cost more, but remember, heavy attack builds don't have sustain issues, you're heavy attacking all the time so the increased skill cost are nothing for those builds to deal with. Because, if you are at the 'low end,' you don't have as big of a need for raw damage, and there are so many more options open to you because of that, and if you are trying to push into higher end content, it is common for everyone there to have to swap gear between patches, and changing one base game dungeon set for another is very minor compared to what is normally required.

I’m wearing weapons expert I think it’s called
Which adds additional power to heavy attacks.
Sure I can swap gear but it will just get complained about once I switch and also nerfed. I’d rather just change roles and avoid all this non-sense all together at this point.

If you do high-end content this is the norm, ZOS frequently buffs and nerfs things so that the end game meta doesn't become stagnant, and the Oakensoul build commonly seen there is mostly just drowning out other builds because, why do X when Y is better/just as good, while also being easier and more survivable? If you want to do end game content, especially as a dps, this sort of balance pass is just part of the cycle, this ins't a single player game where balance isn't as much of a concern. And for anything below the highest end of content, your build will be fine, any upgrades your build needs to gear will greatly surpass the impact of the nerf.

isadoraisacat · May 2023

CP5 wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

I wrote a big post above talking about the problems having the top end dps being extremely high (while nerfing the middle and low end).

From what I understand, the average dps in this game is roughly somewhere between 15-25k (before this nerf). This was hinted at with the introduction of companions, when the developers stated they did not want the companion dps to be higher than the average player’s.

So just think about what that means. The top dps, doing five to six times the average players dps.

Not twice or three times the average, but five to six times the average.

And in eso, where gear is kind of accessible, it means a lot of this difference falls upon the combat system itself.

Does that sound healthy for any game? If I was developing content for this game, I would not know where to begin.
How do I balance something “difficult”, twice the average dps? But the high end will destroy it.
80% of high end dps? Still too easy for them but how many people are going to see it anyway.

You have to create an accessible vet level, then a full throttle hard mode? Do we need to add layers in between now? That’s crazy.

I mean you don’t even need that because the majority of us playing these builds aren’t even doing the hard end game content.

The hardest for us is DLC dungeons on normal or vet non dlc. But after this nerf forget dlc dungeons I won’t be able to do those anymore at least not as a dps. So it’s just forcing me into changing my build up or making a new character and go as a healer.

If you aren't doing vet trials, and even if you are, the nerf won't stop you from being able to do them. Again, this is one of the smallest nerfs ZOS has ever put out (the nerf to empower) and changing gear sets is standard practice for every single player who does end game content (regarding the nerf to storm master). If you do anything less demanding than that content, it comes down to your mentality holding you back, not this nerf, dungeons depend a lot more on paying attention to things, and while high dps is needed from time to time, ultimates exist for a reason. Nothing is forcing you to play a healer, and if you want to participate in the highest tier of content, changing your build from patch to patch is the norm that everyone else deals with every patch, but for everything under that top tier of content, the damage loss won't kill you, this doom and gloom will.

There is no “doom and gloom” and I don’t want to be in the “highest tier” in already a very low dps player. I was hitting 15-18 k dps before using ha builds. Sucking wind. I have hand issues.

This build allows me to hit 30k and get though dlc dungeons I wasn’t able to before. The loss of dps has a major affect on the low end. Yes if your dps is 100k of course a small loss won’t matter. But when your dps is 27-30 k max of course any loss is going to set you back especially when you spent so much time upgrading gear for it a month later to be nerfed.

And once again there is no “doom and gloom” it’s being realistic. I can’t dps a normal build due to hand issues it’s not possible. This build is not something people want it’s clear the direction the combat is going and soon I will not be viable anymore with this build and people resent it. Why would I want to continue to play with others so resent how I play?

I’d rather switch roles and play the way I want (heavy attack ) solo … but with the dps loss it may not even be worth it solo.

I’ll definitely come back with results after it goes live I’ll make some records to show the loss. From tests I’ve seen it’s a massive hit to the low end.

Being realistic: If 100% of your damage comes form heavy attacks, and Empower is your only percentage buff to heavy attack damage, you are looking at a just under a 6% damage nerf. If you are wearing Oakensoul, using the weapons expert champion point node, those things dilute that nerf quite heavily, and if you use any abilities, like sorc pets or ground aoe's, and if you have enchantments doing damage on top of that, that 6% becomes even smaller. So, fact of the matter is, the empower nerf is barely on the table, if that nerf breaks your ability to do content, you have plenty of room to grow beyond what you were doing before.

Now Storm Master did get nerfed as well, but there are so many sets in the game to pick as alternatives, many from base zones, or are craftable, or are otherwise available from dungeons which means that, with the sticker book, you'll eventually get any piece you need no matter what. So let's spin the wheel over the hundreds of sets in ESO to find some alternatives that can work in most pieces of content aside from endgame trials.

You can use sets like Redmountain or Unfathomable Darkness, sets that drop form overland and just 'deal damage when you deal damage,' if you wanted to craft something you could use something like Torug's Pact, Oblivion's Foe, Red Eagle's Fury, New Moon Acolyte, Morkuldin, Coldharbour's Favorite, for just some sets that easily do damage or buff your damage output. Note that Red Eagle and New Moon Acolyte add bonus damage stats at the cost of making your skills cost more, but remember, heavy attack builds don't have sustain issues, you're heavy attacking all the time so the increased skill cost are nothing for those builds to deal with. Because, if you are at the 'low end,' you don't have as big of a need for raw damage, and there are so many more options open to you because of that, and if you are trying to push into higher end content, it is common for everyone there to have to swap gear between patches, and changing one base game dungeon set for another is very minor compared to what is normally required.

I’m wearing weapons expert I think it’s called
Which adds additional power to heavy attacks.
Sure I can swap gear but it will just get complained about once I switch and also nerfed. I’d rather just change roles and avoid all this non-sense all together at this point.

If you do high-end content this is the norm, ZOS frequently buffs and nerfs things so that the end game meta doesn't become stagnant, and the Oakensoul build commonly seen there is mostly just drowning out other builds because, why do X when Y is better/just as good, while also being easier and more survivable? If you want to do end game content, especially as a dps, this sort of balance pass is just part of the cycle, this ins't a single player game where balance isn't as much of a concern. And for anything below the highest end of content, your build will be fine, any upgrades your build needs to gear will greatly surpass the impact of the nerf.

Well I don’t like “anything below high end” that’s basically saying the disabled who physically can’t do weaving at a consistent rate are unable to participate.
I don’t think that is a very positive thing.

And if other builds who were “high end” before switched to this build maybe that is something to be said about the “standard” maybe it’s just not fun for many people playing the finger waltz.

FrancisCrawford · May 2023

isadoraisacat wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

And yeah, if your cp isn't complete, the build isn't complete. CP adds a ton of power to heavies.

Right well I have my cp points maxed out for weapons expert and the the that does off balance both fully maxed. I’m sure there are other mini perks.

But even if that was the case I won’t be maxed out to max cp level any time soon. I don’t have 100s of hours to devote to grinding levels.

I don't think there's any way to use more than about 1800 CP at once, and probably well less than that.

Right I’m at I think 683 now ?
I’m using fully maxed out combat perks all for heavy attack build.

Other than Weapon Expert, CP usually contribute under 5% DPS each. Even Weapon Expert is under 10%.

BTW -- it you're that low on CP, you might want to make a cheap set of body pieces with the Training trait for whenever you do not-terribly-challenging content. In particular, wear it in public dungeons if you're still gathering their skill points, except maybe in the "group event" fight if you need your best set-up there.

FrancisCrawford · May 2023

isadoraisacat wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

peacenote wrote: »

I had a random thought about this topic the other day.

During the U35 update, many people were demonizing high DPS builds, saying the ceiling needed to be lowered, weaving needed to be removed, etc, etc, because damage was out of control, "unfair," the root of all the game's problems, etc.

I bet that some of those folks are now using the HA build that pumps out numbers, and is now being nerfed, and they don't like it.

That's some irony right there.

What if... EVERYONE stopped spreading negativity about people who can push out good damage, regardless of how they do it??!? Maybe we wouldn't see so many nerf bats if the community could just look at the high damage numbers and say "nice job."

The truth of the matter is, clears require a certain level of group DPS. The more people that can pull a fair amount over 100k, the more room there is for a few people that can't.

But this all started by people whining that it was unfair how much damage people who practiced their light attacks and knew the game really well could do. Has anyone learned their lesson?

To be clear, I am not in favor of the HA build nerf. But I also thought it was ridiculous that people thought the "ceiling" should be lowered by reducing damage from LA builds. The worst thing for accessibility is reducing the amount of damage people can do without adjusting the content. If you take away the drama about HA builds specifically, this is just ZOS doing this exact thing, again.

I actually was solo questing. I was not involved with roles or dps until this year when I decided I wanted to experience more stories locked behind group dungeons. So I wasn’t involved in these discussions. But I don’t believe in nerfs on either side of the fence.

The main issue with this nerf is it affects the lower end players who are using this for solo play and to join some group content they weren’t able to before.

I’m not here for “drama” I just want to enjoy the content I paid for and make my time put in grinding scrying / farming the leads / farming gear / leveling and Golding out gear still worth it.

From what I see HA build will be “ok”
For solo play but likely I won’t be able to solo a world boss anymore. But I will
Try to keep leveling cp points and hope I can push my dps back to 30k which is perfect for normal dungeons and world bosses. With the cmx data actually showing during a dungeon I’m hitting average 14-20 k dps when I’m actually fighting a boss, vs 3 mill
Parse dummy test and 59k trial dummy test.

It will be a massive nerf to my lower level. Which is why I’d rather just switch to healer for group content just sucks I need to spend hours farming and Golding out gear when I already just did that for this build prior to the nerf. And this won’t be the end of it people will still Complain and call for more nerfs on ha. I’d rather get ahead of it and just switch my role.

One mistake you made was golding out any gear except a weapon.

We’ll what I meant was making my gear all divines / purple/ gold glyphs / gold staff / monster helm etc

That's more reasonable.

Right still takes time to do all these things.
Especially getting all gear devines.

Divines gear is nice but not a must-have. Your Mundus stone probably adds under 5% to DPS. A piece of Divines gear adds less than 1/10 of that. Often, I've calculated that a single piece of Divines gear will add well under 0.2% to DPS.

isadoraisacat · May 2023

I actually had training traits on my gear for a while for that reason but I started changing them to divines. But I have other pieces that have training traits on them already.

I also use xp scrolls every time I play.
Which isn’t a lot with family and work. But when I do I took all the xp scrolls
I got I think I have 20 left and use them every time and every xp event. It’s just I only play for short Bursts due to time issues.

But yeah I mean my build is basically done save for one piece. Is that needs divines on it. All the combat perks are maxed out for the build. Of course other things will help but I really don’t think then build as that powerful in the hands of a casual player.

But it’s a great tool to solo world bosses and experience some lore content locked behind dlc dungeons.

FrancisCrawford · May 2023

isadoraisacat wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

I wrote a big post above talking about the problems having the top end dps being extremely high (while nerfing the middle and low end).

From what I understand, the average dps in this game is roughly somewhere between 15-25k (before this nerf). This was hinted at with the introduction of companions, when the developers stated they did not want the companion dps to be higher than the average player’s.

So just think about what that means. The top dps, doing five to six times the average players dps.

Not twice or three times the average, but five to six times the average.

And in eso, where gear is kind of accessible, it means a lot of this difference falls upon the combat system itself.

Does that sound healthy for any game? If I was developing content for this game, I would not know where to begin.
How do I balance something “difficult”, twice the average dps? But the high end will destroy it.
80% of high end dps? Still too easy for them but how many people are going to see it anyway.

You have to create an accessible vet level, then a full throttle hard mode? Do we need to add layers in between now? That’s crazy.

I mean you don’t even need that because the majority of us playing these builds aren’t even doing the hard end game content.

The hardest for us is DLC dungeons on normal or vet non dlc. But after this nerf forget dlc dungeons I won’t be able to do those anymore at least not as a dps. So it’s just forcing me into changing my build up or making a new character and go as a healer.

If you aren't doing vet trials, and even if you are, the nerf won't stop you from being able to do them. Again, this is one of the smallest nerfs ZOS has ever put out (the nerf to empower) and changing gear sets is standard practice for every single player who does end game content (regarding the nerf to storm master). If you do anything less demanding than that content, it comes down to your mentality holding you back, not this nerf, dungeons depend a lot more on paying attention to things, and while high dps is needed from time to time, ultimates exist for a reason. Nothing is forcing you to play a healer, and if you want to participate in the highest tier of content, changing your build from patch to patch is the norm that everyone else deals with every patch, but for everything under that top tier of content, the damage loss won't kill you, this doom and gloom will.

There is no “doom and gloom” and I don’t want to be in the “highest tier” in already a very low dps player. I was hitting 15-18 k dps before using ha builds. Sucking wind. I have hand issues.

This build allows me to hit 30k and get though dlc dungeons I wasn’t able to before. The loss of dps has a major affect on the low end. Yes if your dps is 100k of course a small loss won’t matter. But when your dps is 27-30 k max of course any loss is going to set you back especially when you spent so much time upgrading gear for it a month later to be nerfed.

And once again there is no “doom and gloom” it’s being realistic. I can’t dps a normal build due to hand issues it’s not possible. This build is not something people want it’s clear the direction the combat is going and soon I will not be viable anymore with this build and people resent it. Why would I want to continue to play with others so resent how I play?

I’d rather switch roles and play the way I want (heavy attack ) solo … but with the dps loss it may not even be worth it solo.

I’ll definitely come back with results after it goes live I’ll make some records to show the loss. From tests I’ve seen it’s a massive hit to the low end.

Being realistic: If 100% of your damage comes form heavy attacks, and Empower is your only percentage buff to heavy attack damage, you are looking at a just under a 6% damage nerf. If you are wearing Oakensoul, using the weapons expert champion point node, those things dilute that nerf quite heavily, and if you use any abilities, like sorc pets or ground aoe's, and if you have enchantments doing damage on top of that, that 6% becomes even smaller. So, fact of the matter is, the empower nerf is barely on the table, if that nerf breaks your ability to do content, you have plenty of room to grow beyond what you were doing before.

Now Storm Master did get nerfed as well, but there are so many sets in the game to pick as alternatives, many from base zones, or are craftable, or are otherwise available from dungeons which means that, with the sticker book, you'll eventually get any piece you need no matter what. So let's spin the wheel over the hundreds of sets in ESO to find some alternatives that can work in most pieces of content aside from endgame trials.

You can use sets like Redmountain or Unfathomable Darkness, sets that drop form overland and just 'deal damage when you deal damage,' if you wanted to craft something you could use something like Torug's Pact, Oblivion's Foe, Red Eagle's Fury, New Moon Acolyte, Morkuldin, Coldharbour's Favorite, for just some sets that easily do damage or buff your damage output. Note that Red Eagle and New Moon Acolyte add bonus damage stats at the cost of making your skills cost more, but remember, heavy attack builds don't have sustain issues, you're heavy attacking all the time so the increased skill cost are nothing for those builds to deal with. Because, if you are at the 'low end,' you don't have as big of a need for raw damage, and there are so many more options open to you because of that, and if you are trying to push into higher end content, it is common for everyone there to have to swap gear between patches, and changing one base game dungeon set for another is very minor compared to what is normally required.

I’m wearing weapons expert I think it’s called
Which adds additional power to heavy attacks.
Sure I can swap gear but it will just get complained about once I switch and also nerfed. I’d rather just change roles and avoid all this non-sense all together at this point.

If you're on the PC, there are many ways to swap gear around quickly.

That said -- I'm in your range of DPS, or a little higher. My current plan for when I PUG dungeons again is to heal, using a modified Oakensoul HA build, e.g. on a Templar running a burst heal, Extended Ritual, Blazing Shards, perhaps Power of the Light, and perhaps Wall of Elements (not sure which morph). Sets would be Sergeant's Mail and Spell Power Cure.

isadoraisacat · May 2023

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

peacenote wrote: »

I had a random thought about this topic the other day.

During the U35 update, many people were demonizing high DPS builds, saying the ceiling needed to be lowered, weaving needed to be removed, etc, etc, because damage was out of control, "unfair," the root of all the game's problems, etc.

I bet that some of those folks are now using the HA build that pumps out numbers, and is now being nerfed, and they don't like it.

That's some irony right there.

What if... EVERYONE stopped spreading negativity about people who can push out good damage, regardless of how they do it??!? Maybe we wouldn't see so many nerf bats if the community could just look at the high damage numbers and say "nice job."

The truth of the matter is, clears require a certain level of group DPS. The more people that can pull a fair amount over 100k, the more room there is for a few people that can't.

But this all started by people whining that it was unfair how much damage people who practiced their light attacks and knew the game really well could do. Has anyone learned their lesson?

To be clear, I am not in favor of the HA build nerf. But I also thought it was ridiculous that people thought the "ceiling" should be lowered by reducing damage from LA builds. The worst thing for accessibility is reducing the amount of damage people can do without adjusting the content. If you take away the drama about HA builds specifically, this is just ZOS doing this exact thing, again.

I actually was solo questing. I was not involved with roles or dps until this year when I decided I wanted to experience more stories locked behind group dungeons. So I wasn’t involved in these discussions. But I don’t believe in nerfs on either side of the fence.

The main issue with this nerf is it affects the lower end players who are using this for solo play and to join some group content they weren’t able to before.

I’m not here for “drama” I just want to enjoy the content I paid for and make my time put in grinding scrying / farming the leads / farming gear / leveling and Golding out gear still worth it.

From what I see HA build will be “ok”
For solo play but likely I won’t be able to solo a world boss anymore. But I will
Try to keep leveling cp points and hope I can push my dps back to 30k which is perfect for normal dungeons and world bosses. With the cmx data actually showing during a dungeon I’m hitting average 14-20 k dps when I’m actually fighting a boss, vs 3 mill
Parse dummy test and 59k trial dummy test.

It will be a massive nerf to my lower level. Which is why I’d rather just switch to healer for group content just sucks I need to spend hours farming and Golding out gear when I already just did that for this build prior to the nerf. And this won’t be the end of it people will still Complain and call for more nerfs on ha. I’d rather get ahead of it and just switch my role.

One mistake you made was golding out any gear except a weapon.

We’ll what I meant was making my gear all divines / purple/ gold glyphs / gold staff / monster helm etc

That's more reasonable.

Right still takes time to do all these things.
Especially getting all gear devines.

Divines gear is nice but not a must-have. Your Mundus stone probably adds under 5% to DPS. A piece of Divines gear adds less than 1/10 of that. Often, I've calculated that a single piece of Divines gear will add well under 0.2% to DPS.

Yeah adding precise to my staff did more to bring those numbers up than the gear traits.

But yeah I’m not mad or anything just upsetting because it was a great solo set up that I could run dlc dungeons with. Now I’m gonna have to just change uniforms as a healer for group stuff. So right now I’m trying to grind that out and learn about being a healer it’s honestly prob a better role for me in the long run anyway. And the ha build still will be better than prior for solo at least for a time.

isadoraisacat · May 2023

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

I wrote a big post above talking about the problems having the top end dps being extremely high (while nerfing the middle and low end).

From what I understand, the average dps in this game is roughly somewhere between 15-25k (before this nerf). This was hinted at with the introduction of companions, when the developers stated they did not want the companion dps to be higher than the average player’s.

So just think about what that means. The top dps, doing five to six times the average players dps.

Not twice or three times the average, but five to six times the average.

And in eso, where gear is kind of accessible, it means a lot of this difference falls upon the combat system itself.

Does that sound healthy for any game? If I was developing content for this game, I would not know where to begin.
How do I balance something “difficult”, twice the average dps? But the high end will destroy it.
80% of high end dps? Still too easy for them but how many people are going to see it anyway.

You have to create an accessible vet level, then a full throttle hard mode? Do we need to add layers in between now? That’s crazy.

I mean you don’t even need that because the majority of us playing these builds aren’t even doing the hard end game content.

The hardest for us is DLC dungeons on normal or vet non dlc. But after this nerf forget dlc dungeons I won’t be able to do those anymore at least not as a dps. So it’s just forcing me into changing my build up or making a new character and go as a healer.

If you aren't doing vet trials, and even if you are, the nerf won't stop you from being able to do them. Again, this is one of the smallest nerfs ZOS has ever put out (the nerf to empower) and changing gear sets is standard practice for every single player who does end game content (regarding the nerf to storm master). If you do anything less demanding than that content, it comes down to your mentality holding you back, not this nerf, dungeons depend a lot more on paying attention to things, and while high dps is needed from time to time, ultimates exist for a reason. Nothing is forcing you to play a healer, and if you want to participate in the highest tier of content, changing your build from patch to patch is the norm that everyone else deals with every patch, but for everything under that top tier of content, the damage loss won't kill you, this doom and gloom will.

There is no “doom and gloom” and I don’t want to be in the “highest tier” in already a very low dps player. I was hitting 15-18 k dps before using ha builds. Sucking wind. I have hand issues.

This build allows me to hit 30k and get though dlc dungeons I wasn’t able to before. The loss of dps has a major affect on the low end. Yes if your dps is 100k of course a small loss won’t matter. But when your dps is 27-30 k max of course any loss is going to set you back especially when you spent so much time upgrading gear for it a month later to be nerfed.

And once again there is no “doom and gloom” it’s being realistic. I can’t dps a normal build due to hand issues it’s not possible. This build is not something people want it’s clear the direction the combat is going and soon I will not be viable anymore with this build and people resent it. Why would I want to continue to play with others so resent how I play?

I’d rather switch roles and play the way I want (heavy attack ) solo … but with the dps loss it may not even be worth it solo.

I’ll definitely come back with results after it goes live I’ll make some records to show the loss. From tests I’ve seen it’s a massive hit to the low end.

Being realistic: If 100% of your damage comes form heavy attacks, and Empower is your only percentage buff to heavy attack damage, you are looking at a just under a 6% damage nerf. If you are wearing Oakensoul, using the weapons expert champion point node, those things dilute that nerf quite heavily, and if you use any abilities, like sorc pets or ground aoe's, and if you have enchantments doing damage on top of that, that 6% becomes even smaller. So, fact of the matter is, the empower nerf is barely on the table, if that nerf breaks your ability to do content, you have plenty of room to grow beyond what you were doing before.

Now Storm Master did get nerfed as well, but there are so many sets in the game to pick as alternatives, many from base zones, or are craftable, or are otherwise available from dungeons which means that, with the sticker book, you'll eventually get any piece you need no matter what. So let's spin the wheel over the hundreds of sets in ESO to find some alternatives that can work in most pieces of content aside from endgame trials.

You can use sets like Redmountain or Unfathomable Darkness, sets that drop form overland and just 'deal damage when you deal damage,' if you wanted to craft something you could use something like Torug's Pact, Oblivion's Foe, Red Eagle's Fury, New Moon Acolyte, Morkuldin, Coldharbour's Favorite, for just some sets that easily do damage or buff your damage output. Note that Red Eagle and New Moon Acolyte add bonus damage stats at the cost of making your skills cost more, but remember, heavy attack builds don't have sustain issues, you're heavy attacking all the time so the increased skill cost are nothing for those builds to deal with. Because, if you are at the 'low end,' you don't have as big of a need for raw damage, and there are so many more options open to you because of that, and if you are trying to push into higher end content, it is common for everyone there to have to swap gear between patches, and changing one base game dungeon set for another is very minor compared to what is normally required.

I’m wearing weapons expert I think it’s called
Which adds additional power to heavy attacks.
Sure I can swap gear but it will just get complained about once I switch and also nerfed. I’d rather just change roles and avoid all this non-sense all together at this point.

If you're on the PC, there are many ways to swap gear around quickly.

How do you do that other than armory crate ?

Edit : lol amory crate(no idea why I said crate at the end ) is a thing for asus I think it’s called armor station or armory? I know it lets you change between 2 set up’s or more (if you pay money ).

isadoraisacat · May 2023

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

I wrote a big post above talking about the problems having the top end dps being extremely high (while nerfing the middle and low end).

From what I understand, the average dps in this game is roughly somewhere between 15-25k (before this nerf). This was hinted at with the introduction of companions, when the developers stated they did not want the companion dps to be higher than the average player’s.

So just think about what that means. The top dps, doing five to six times the average players dps.

Not twice or three times the average, but five to six times the average.

And in eso, where gear is kind of accessible, it means a lot of this difference falls upon the combat system itself.

Does that sound healthy for any game? If I was developing content for this game, I would not know where to begin.
How do I balance something “difficult”, twice the average dps? But the high end will destroy it.
80% of high end dps? Still too easy for them but how many people are going to see it anyway.

You have to create an accessible vet level, then a full throttle hard mode? Do we need to add layers in between now? That’s crazy.

I mean you don’t even need that because the majority of us playing these builds aren’t even doing the hard end game content.

The hardest for us is DLC dungeons on normal or vet non dlc. But after this nerf forget dlc dungeons I won’t be able to do those anymore at least not as a dps. So it’s just forcing me into changing my build up or making a new character and go as a healer.

If you aren't doing vet trials, and even if you are, the nerf won't stop you from being able to do them. Again, this is one of the smallest nerfs ZOS has ever put out (the nerf to empower) and changing gear sets is standard practice for every single player who does end game content (regarding the nerf to storm master). If you do anything less demanding than that content, it comes down to your mentality holding you back, not this nerf, dungeons depend a lot more on paying attention to things, and while high dps is needed from time to time, ultimates exist for a reason. Nothing is forcing you to play a healer, and if you want to participate in the highest tier of content, changing your build from patch to patch is the norm that everyone else deals with every patch, but for everything under that top tier of content, the damage loss won't kill you, this doom and gloom will.

There is no “doom and gloom” and I don’t want to be in the “highest tier” in already a very low dps player. I was hitting 15-18 k dps before using ha builds. Sucking wind. I have hand issues.

This build allows me to hit 30k and get though dlc dungeons I wasn’t able to before. The loss of dps has a major affect on the low end. Yes if your dps is 100k of course a small loss won’t matter. But when your dps is 27-30 k max of course any loss is going to set you back especially when you spent so much time upgrading gear for it a month later to be nerfed.

And once again there is no “doom and gloom” it’s being realistic. I can’t dps a normal build due to hand issues it’s not possible. This build is not something people want it’s clear the direction the combat is going and soon I will not be viable anymore with this build and people resent it. Why would I want to continue to play with others so resent how I play?

I’d rather switch roles and play the way I want (heavy attack ) solo … but with the dps loss it may not even be worth it solo.

I’ll definitely come back with results after it goes live I’ll make some records to show the loss. From tests I’ve seen it’s a massive hit to the low end.

Being realistic: If 100% of your damage comes form heavy attacks, and Empower is your only percentage buff to heavy attack damage, you are looking at a just under a 6% damage nerf. If you are wearing Oakensoul, using the weapons expert champion point node, those things dilute that nerf quite heavily, and if you use any abilities, like sorc pets or ground aoe's, and if you have enchantments doing damage on top of that, that 6% becomes even smaller. So, fact of the matter is, the empower nerf is barely on the table, if that nerf breaks your ability to do content, you have plenty of room to grow beyond what you were doing before.

Now Storm Master did get nerfed as well, but there are so many sets in the game to pick as alternatives, many from base zones, or are craftable, or are otherwise available from dungeons which means that, with the sticker book, you'll eventually get any piece you need no matter what. So let's spin the wheel over the hundreds of sets in ESO to find some alternatives that can work in most pieces of content aside from endgame trials.

You can use sets like Redmountain or Unfathomable Darkness, sets that drop form overland and just 'deal damage when you deal damage,' if you wanted to craft something you could use something like Torug's Pact, Oblivion's Foe, Red Eagle's Fury, New Moon Acolyte, Morkuldin, Coldharbour's Favorite, for just some sets that easily do damage or buff your damage output. Note that Red Eagle and New Moon Acolyte add bonus damage stats at the cost of making your skills cost more, but remember, heavy attack builds don't have sustain issues, you're heavy attacking all the time so the increased skill cost are nothing for those builds to deal with. Because, if you are at the 'low end,' you don't have as big of a need for raw damage, and there are so many more options open to you because of that, and if you are trying to push into higher end content, it is common for everyone there to have to swap gear between patches, and changing one base game dungeon set for another is very minor compared to what is normally required.

I’m wearing weapons expert I think it’s called
Which adds additional power to heavy attacks.
Sure I can swap gear but it will just get complained about once I switch and also nerfed. I’d rather just change roles and avoid all this non-sense all together at this point.

If you're on the PC, there are many ways to swap gear around quickly.

That said -- I'm in your range of DPS, or a little higher. My current plan for when I PUG dungeons again is to heal, using a modified Oakensoul HA build, e.g. on a Templar running a burst heal, Extended Ritual, Blazing Shards, perhaps Power of the Light, and perhaps Wall of Elements (not sure which morph). Sets would be Sergeant's Mail and Spell Power Cure.

I currently farming spell power cure set atm.
I was gonna do a 2 bar set up tho so I can use lighting staff and restro staff

CP5 · May 2023

isadoraisacat wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

I wrote a big post above talking about the problems having the top end dps being extremely high (while nerfing the middle and low end).

From what I understand, the average dps in this game is roughly somewhere between 15-25k (before this nerf). This was hinted at with the introduction of companions, when the developers stated they did not want the companion dps to be higher than the average player’s.

So just think about what that means. The top dps, doing five to six times the average players dps.

Not twice or three times the average, but five to six times the average.

And in eso, where gear is kind of accessible, it means a lot of this difference falls upon the combat system itself.

Does that sound healthy for any game? If I was developing content for this game, I would not know where to begin.
How do I balance something “difficult”, twice the average dps? But the high end will destroy it.
80% of high end dps? Still too easy for them but how many people are going to see it anyway.

You have to create an accessible vet level, then a full throttle hard mode? Do we need to add layers in between now? That’s crazy.

I mean you don’t even need that because the majority of us playing these builds aren’t even doing the hard end game content.

The hardest for us is DLC dungeons on normal or vet non dlc. But after this nerf forget dlc dungeons I won’t be able to do those anymore at least not as a dps. So it’s just forcing me into changing my build up or making a new character and go as a healer.

If you aren't doing vet trials, and even if you are, the nerf won't stop you from being able to do them. Again, this is one of the smallest nerfs ZOS has ever put out (the nerf to empower) and changing gear sets is standard practice for every single player who does end game content (regarding the nerf to storm master). If you do anything less demanding than that content, it comes down to your mentality holding you back, not this nerf, dungeons depend a lot more on paying attention to things, and while high dps is needed from time to time, ultimates exist for a reason. Nothing is forcing you to play a healer, and if you want to participate in the highest tier of content, changing your build from patch to patch is the norm that everyone else deals with every patch, but for everything under that top tier of content, the damage loss won't kill you, this doom and gloom will.

There is no “doom and gloom” and I don’t want to be in the “highest tier” in already a very low dps player. I was hitting 15-18 k dps before using ha builds. Sucking wind. I have hand issues.

This build allows me to hit 30k and get though dlc dungeons I wasn’t able to before. The loss of dps has a major affect on the low end. Yes if your dps is 100k of course a small loss won’t matter. But when your dps is 27-30 k max of course any loss is going to set you back especially when you spent so much time upgrading gear for it a month later to be nerfed.

And once again there is no “doom and gloom” it’s being realistic. I can’t dps a normal build due to hand issues it’s not possible. This build is not something people want it’s clear the direction the combat is going and soon I will not be viable anymore with this build and people resent it. Why would I want to continue to play with others so resent how I play?

I’d rather switch roles and play the way I want (heavy attack ) solo … but with the dps loss it may not even be worth it solo.

I’ll definitely come back with results after it goes live I’ll make some records to show the loss. From tests I’ve seen it’s a massive hit to the low end.

Being realistic: If 100% of your damage comes form heavy attacks, and Empower is your only percentage buff to heavy attack damage, you are looking at a just under a 6% damage nerf. If you are wearing Oakensoul, using the weapons expert champion point node, those things dilute that nerf quite heavily, and if you use any abilities, like sorc pets or ground aoe's, and if you have enchantments doing damage on top of that, that 6% becomes even smaller. So, fact of the matter is, the empower nerf is barely on the table, if that nerf breaks your ability to do content, you have plenty of room to grow beyond what you were doing before.

Now Storm Master did get nerfed as well, but there are so many sets in the game to pick as alternatives, many from base zones, or are craftable, or are otherwise available from dungeons which means that, with the sticker book, you'll eventually get any piece you need no matter what. So let's spin the wheel over the hundreds of sets in ESO to find some alternatives that can work in most pieces of content aside from endgame trials.

You can use sets like Redmountain or Unfathomable Darkness, sets that drop form overland and just 'deal damage when you deal damage,' if you wanted to craft something you could use something like Torug's Pact, Oblivion's Foe, Red Eagle's Fury, New Moon Acolyte, Morkuldin, Coldharbour's Favorite, for just some sets that easily do damage or buff your damage output. Note that Red Eagle and New Moon Acolyte add bonus damage stats at the cost of making your skills cost more, but remember, heavy attack builds don't have sustain issues, you're heavy attacking all the time so the increased skill cost are nothing for those builds to deal with. Because, if you are at the 'low end,' you don't have as big of a need for raw damage, and there are so many more options open to you because of that, and if you are trying to push into higher end content, it is common for everyone there to have to swap gear between patches, and changing one base game dungeon set for another is very minor compared to what is normally required.

I’m wearing weapons expert I think it’s called
Which adds additional power to heavy attacks.
Sure I can swap gear but it will just get complained about once I switch and also nerfed. I’d rather just change roles and avoid all this non-sense all together at this point.

If you do high-end content this is the norm, ZOS frequently buffs and nerfs things so that the end game meta doesn't become stagnant, and the Oakensoul build commonly seen there is mostly just drowning out other builds because, why do X when Y is better/just as good, while also being easier and more survivable? If you want to do end game content, especially as a dps, this sort of balance pass is just part of the cycle, this ins't a single player game where balance isn't as much of a concern. And for anything below the highest end of content, your build will be fine, any upgrades your build needs to gear will greatly surpass the impact of the nerf.

Well I don’t like “anything below high end” that’s basically saying the disabled who physically can’t do weaving at a consistent rate are unable to participate.
I don’t think that is a very positive thing.

And if other builds who were “high end” before switched to this build maybe that is something to be said about the “standard” maybe it’s just not fun for many people playing the finger waltz.

When I say high end, I mean stuff like hard mode trials, hard mode dlc dungeons to a lesser extent, and challenge runs like trifectas, but even vet content is still under the large umbrella of "below high end." It isn't about you being singled and being told you can't participate in vet content, but if you want to push the hardest content in the game, you need to enter it with the mentality to adapt your build to get the most out of it, but outside of that very top tier of content, you don't need to be nickling and diming your build to squeeze everything out of it.

Normal content exists to be easy to access for people without a high demand for proficiency in the game or refined builds. Vet content requires some game knowledge and a well put together build, and hard mode content is for people looking to challenge themselves, you can participate in content, but the mentality that 'a nerf came my way now I can't participate' is what is keeping you back more than anything, and in game that mentality can be felt by others.

isadoraisacat · May 2023

CP5 wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

I wrote a big post above talking about the problems having the top end dps being extremely high (while nerfing the middle and low end).

From what I understand, the average dps in this game is roughly somewhere between 15-25k (before this nerf). This was hinted at with the introduction of companions, when the developers stated they did not want the companion dps to be higher than the average player’s.

So just think about what that means. The top dps, doing five to six times the average players dps.

Not twice or three times the average, but five to six times the average.

And in eso, where gear is kind of accessible, it means a lot of this difference falls upon the combat system itself.

Does that sound healthy for any game? If I was developing content for this game, I would not know where to begin.
How do I balance something “difficult”, twice the average dps? But the high end will destroy it.
80% of high end dps? Still too easy for them but how many people are going to see it anyway.

You have to create an accessible vet level, then a full throttle hard mode? Do we need to add layers in between now? That’s crazy.

I mean you don’t even need that because the majority of us playing these builds aren’t even doing the hard end game content.

The hardest for us is DLC dungeons on normal or vet non dlc. But after this nerf forget dlc dungeons I won’t be able to do those anymore at least not as a dps. So it’s just forcing me into changing my build up or making a new character and go as a healer.

If you aren't doing vet trials, and even if you are, the nerf won't stop you from being able to do them. Again, this is one of the smallest nerfs ZOS has ever put out (the nerf to empower) and changing gear sets is standard practice for every single player who does end game content (regarding the nerf to storm master). If you do anything less demanding than that content, it comes down to your mentality holding you back, not this nerf, dungeons depend a lot more on paying attention to things, and while high dps is needed from time to time, ultimates exist for a reason. Nothing is forcing you to play a healer, and if you want to participate in the highest tier of content, changing your build from patch to patch is the norm that everyone else deals with every patch, but for everything under that top tier of content, the damage loss won't kill you, this doom and gloom will.

There is no “doom and gloom” and I don’t want to be in the “highest tier” in already a very low dps player. I was hitting 15-18 k dps before using ha builds. Sucking wind. I have hand issues.

This build allows me to hit 30k and get though dlc dungeons I wasn’t able to before. The loss of dps has a major affect on the low end. Yes if your dps is 100k of course a small loss won’t matter. But when your dps is 27-30 k max of course any loss is going to set you back especially when you spent so much time upgrading gear for it a month later to be nerfed.

And once again there is no “doom and gloom” it’s being realistic. I can’t dps a normal build due to hand issues it’s not possible. This build is not something people want it’s clear the direction the combat is going and soon I will not be viable anymore with this build and people resent it. Why would I want to continue to play with others so resent how I play?

I’d rather switch roles and play the way I want (heavy attack ) solo … but with the dps loss it may not even be worth it solo.

I’ll definitely come back with results after it goes live I’ll make some records to show the loss. From tests I’ve seen it’s a massive hit to the low end.

Being realistic: If 100% of your damage comes form heavy attacks, and Empower is your only percentage buff to heavy attack damage, you are looking at a just under a 6% damage nerf. If you are wearing Oakensoul, using the weapons expert champion point node, those things dilute that nerf quite heavily, and if you use any abilities, like sorc pets or ground aoe's, and if you have enchantments doing damage on top of that, that 6% becomes even smaller. So, fact of the matter is, the empower nerf is barely on the table, if that nerf breaks your ability to do content, you have plenty of room to grow beyond what you were doing before.

Now Storm Master did get nerfed as well, but there are so many sets in the game to pick as alternatives, many from base zones, or are craftable, or are otherwise available from dungeons which means that, with the sticker book, you'll eventually get any piece you need no matter what. So let's spin the wheel over the hundreds of sets in ESO to find some alternatives that can work in most pieces of content aside from endgame trials.

You can use sets like Redmountain or Unfathomable Darkness, sets that drop form overland and just 'deal damage when you deal damage,' if you wanted to craft something you could use something like Torug's Pact, Oblivion's Foe, Red Eagle's Fury, New Moon Acolyte, Morkuldin, Coldharbour's Favorite, for just some sets that easily do damage or buff your damage output. Note that Red Eagle and New Moon Acolyte add bonus damage stats at the cost of making your skills cost more, but remember, heavy attack builds don't have sustain issues, you're heavy attacking all the time so the increased skill cost are nothing for those builds to deal with. Because, if you are at the 'low end,' you don't have as big of a need for raw damage, and there are so many more options open to you because of that, and if you are trying to push into higher end content, it is common for everyone there to have to swap gear between patches, and changing one base game dungeon set for another is very minor compared to what is normally required.

I’m wearing weapons expert I think it’s called
Which adds additional power to heavy attacks.
Sure I can swap gear but it will just get complained about once I switch and also nerfed. I’d rather just change roles and avoid all this non-sense all together at this point.

If you do high-end content this is the norm, ZOS frequently buffs and nerfs things so that the end game meta doesn't become stagnant, and the Oakensoul build commonly seen there is mostly just drowning out other builds because, why do X when Y is better/just as good, while also being easier and more survivable? If you want to do end game content, especially as a dps, this sort of balance pass is just part of the cycle, this ins't a single player game where balance isn't as much of a concern. And for anything below the highest end of content, your build will be fine, any upgrades your build needs to gear will greatly surpass the impact of the nerf.

Well I don’t like “anything below high end” that’s basically saying the disabled who physically can’t do weaving at a consistent rate are unable to participate.
I don’t think that is a very positive thing.

And if other builds who were “high end” before switched to this build maybe that is something to be said about the “standard” maybe it’s just not fun for many people playing the finger waltz.

When I say high end, I mean stuff like hard mode trials, hard mode dlc dungeons to a lesser extent, and challenge runs like trifectas, but even vet content is still under the large umbrella of "below high end." It isn't about you being singled and being told you can't participate in vet content, but if you want to push the hardest content in the game, you need to enter it with the mentality to adapt your build to get the most out of it, but outside of that very top tier of content, you don't need to be nickling and diming your build to squeeze everything out of it.

Normal content exists to be easy to access for people without a high demand for proficiency in the game or refined builds. Vet content requires some game knowledge and a well put together build, and hard mode content is for people looking to challenge themselves, you can participate in content, but the mentality that 'a nerf came my way now I can't participate' is what is keeping you back more than anything, and in game that mentality can be felt by others.

Well I am adapting in that I’m just going to change to be a healer and focus on that instead. And I think I have better chances as a healer.

What’s keeping me back is I can’t consistently weave. It’s not that I can’t do it. I can actually weave pretty good i practiced in front of a dummy for hours. The issue is I can’t keep doing it due to hand issue I can’t be consistent. Not to mention I really don’t like the combat style on top of it. So if the play style
That makes it more fun and not painful can’t enter these things the nerf is preventing me from entering this content, despite you saying. Hence why I need to swap roles and not be a dps anymore and problem solved.

And also if someone doesn’t like your play style and clearly doesn’t want it in the “high end” you are contradicting yourself saying i need to push my build farther but you are already saying it won’t be good for high end so which is it ?

Of course someone won’t be happy when a build that worked for them got pushed out. It’s clearly not wanted. So I won’t play it anymore with others. And do something else
Simple as that.

CP5 · May 2023

That solution works, sure, the game always needs more people to be healers, but again. The nerfs this pts patch are, a minor nerf to empower, and a nerf to a single set. The empower nerf is made smaller for every single percentage buff you get to heavy attacks, and for every source of 'non-heavy attack' damage you have, rendering it almost pointless, and storm master wasn't an all powerful build enabling set in the first place. There are alternatives, crafted sets, overland sets, ones that are easy to get in any trait just to try out, and you can try those and see how they are. If you aren't intent on dpsing for hard mode trials or challenge runs, your not going to lose everything with these changes, your play style is just as viable as it was before.

And, the nerf hasn't happened yet, it isn't preventing you from entering content yet, and even when the pts hits live, with whatever changes ZOS lands on, unless you built your house on storm master as a set, you're not going to notice much of a difference. You don't need to swap roles, you just need to understand that in the highest levels of play, adapting to balance passes is common, and everywhere else, these nerfs are small enough as not to matter all that much.

FrancisCrawford · May 2023

isadoraisacat wrote: »

I actually had training traits on my gear for a while for that reason but I started changing them to divines. But I have other pieces that have training traits on them already.

I also use xp scrolls every time I play.
Which isn’t a lot with family and work. But when I do I took all the xp scrolls
I got I think I have 20 left and use them every time and every xp event. It’s just I only play for short Bursts due to time issues.

But yeah I mean my build is basically done save for one piece. Is that needs divines on it. All the combat perks are maxed out for the build. Of course other things will help but I really don’t think then build as that powerful in the hands of a casual player.

But it’s a great tool to solo world bosses and experience some lore content locked behind dlc dungeons.

I very rarely change traits on gear these days. Usually I make new gear instead. For one thing, that almost always costs fewer transmute crystals.

isadoraisacat · May 2023

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

I actually had training traits on my gear for a while for that reason but I started changing them to divines. But I have other pieces that have training traits on them already.

I also use xp scrolls every time I play.
Which isn’t a lot with family and work. But when I do I took all the xp scrolls
I got I think I have 20 left and use them every time and every xp event. It’s just I only play for short Bursts due to time issues.

But yeah I mean my build is basically done save for one piece. Is that needs divines on it. All the combat perks are maxed out for the build. Of course other things will help but I really don’t think then build as that powerful in the hands of a casual player.

But it’s a great tool to solo world bosses and experience some lore content locked behind dlc dungeons.

I very rarely change traits on gear these days. Usually I make new gear instead. For one thing, that almost always costs fewer transmute crystals.

Yeah just wanted to try the set out at its best possible potential but from here on out going forward it won’t be something I rush to do again.

ZOS_Hadeostry · May 2023

Greetings,

As we've had to remove a few non-constructive comments due to baiting, please remember that while it’s all right to disagree or even debate with each other, provoking conflict, baiting, inciting, mocking, etc. is never acceptable in the official The Elder Scrolls Online community.

While we completely understand everyone has their own opinions, thoughts, feelings and even frustrations, we want the forums to be a civil and constructive platform for the game and its community as a whole.

FrancisCrawford · May 2023

isadoraisacat wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

I wrote a big post above talking about the problems having the top end dps being extremely high (while nerfing the middle and low end).

From what I understand, the average dps in this game is roughly somewhere between 15-25k (before this nerf). This was hinted at with the introduction of companions, when the developers stated they did not want the companion dps to be higher than the average player’s.

So just think about what that means. The top dps, doing five to six times the average players dps.

Not twice or three times the average, but five to six times the average.

And in eso, where gear is kind of accessible, it means a lot of this difference falls upon the combat system itself.

Does that sound healthy for any game? If I was developing content for this game, I would not know where to begin.
How do I balance something “difficult”, twice the average dps? But the high end will destroy it.
80% of high end dps? Still too easy for them but how many people are going to see it anyway.

You have to create an accessible vet level, then a full throttle hard mode? Do we need to add layers in between now? That’s crazy.

I mean you don’t even need that because the majority of us playing these builds aren’t even doing the hard end game content.

The hardest for us is DLC dungeons on normal or vet non dlc. But after this nerf forget dlc dungeons I won’t be able to do those anymore at least not as a dps. So it’s just forcing me into changing my build up or making a new character and go as a healer.

If you aren't doing vet trials, and even if you are, the nerf won't stop you from being able to do them. Again, this is one of the smallest nerfs ZOS has ever put out (the nerf to empower) and changing gear sets is standard practice for every single player who does end game content (regarding the nerf to storm master). If you do anything less demanding than that content, it comes down to your mentality holding you back, not this nerf, dungeons depend a lot more on paying attention to things, and while high dps is needed from time to time, ultimates exist for a reason. Nothing is forcing you to play a healer, and if you want to participate in the highest tier of content, changing your build from patch to patch is the norm that everyone else deals with every patch, but for everything under that top tier of content, the damage loss won't kill you, this doom and gloom will.

There is no “doom and gloom” and I don’t want to be in the “highest tier” in already a very low dps player. I was hitting 15-18 k dps before using ha builds. Sucking wind. I have hand issues.

This build allows me to hit 30k and get though dlc dungeons I wasn’t able to before. The loss of dps has a major affect on the low end. Yes if your dps is 100k of course a small loss won’t matter. But when your dps is 27-30 k max of course any loss is going to set you back especially when you spent so much time upgrading gear for it a month later to be nerfed.

And once again there is no “doom and gloom” it’s being realistic. I can’t dps a normal build due to hand issues it’s not possible. This build is not something people want it’s clear the direction the combat is going and soon I will not be viable anymore with this build and people resent it. Why would I want to continue to play with others so resent how I play?

I’d rather switch roles and play the way I want (heavy attack ) solo … but with the dps loss it may not even be worth it solo.

I’ll definitely come back with results after it goes live I’ll make some records to show the loss. From tests I’ve seen it’s a massive hit to the low end.

Being realistic: If 100% of your damage comes form heavy attacks, and Empower is your only percentage buff to heavy attack damage, you are looking at a just under a 6% damage nerf. If you are wearing Oakensoul, using the weapons expert champion point node, those things dilute that nerf quite heavily, and if you use any abilities, like sorc pets or ground aoe's, and if you have enchantments doing damage on top of that, that 6% becomes even smaller. So, fact of the matter is, the empower nerf is barely on the table, if that nerf breaks your ability to do content, you have plenty of room to grow beyond what you were doing before.

Now Storm Master did get nerfed as well, but there are so many sets in the game to pick as alternatives, many from base zones, or are craftable, or are otherwise available from dungeons which means that, with the sticker book, you'll eventually get any piece you need no matter what. So let's spin the wheel over the hundreds of sets in ESO to find some alternatives that can work in most pieces of content aside from endgame trials.

You can use sets like Redmountain or Unfathomable Darkness, sets that drop form overland and just 'deal damage when you deal damage,' if you wanted to craft something you could use something like Torug's Pact, Oblivion's Foe, Red Eagle's Fury, New Moon Acolyte, Morkuldin, Coldharbour's Favorite, for just some sets that easily do damage or buff your damage output. Note that Red Eagle and New Moon Acolyte add bonus damage stats at the cost of making your skills cost more, but remember, heavy attack builds don't have sustain issues, you're heavy attacking all the time so the increased skill cost are nothing for those builds to deal with. Because, if you are at the 'low end,' you don't have as big of a need for raw damage, and there are so many more options open to you because of that, and if you are trying to push into higher end content, it is common for everyone there to have to swap gear between patches, and changing one base game dungeon set for another is very minor compared to what is normally required.

I’m wearing weapons expert I think it’s called
Which adds additional power to heavy attacks.
Sure I can swap gear but it will just get complained about once I switch and also nerfed. I’d rather just change roles and avoid all this non-sense all together at this point.

If you're on the PC, there are many ways to swap gear around quickly.

How do you do that other than armory crate ?

Edit : lol amory crate(no idea why I said crate at the end ) is a thing for asus I think it’s called armor station or armory? I know it lets you change between 2 set up’s or more (if you pay money ).

There are add-ons with names like AlphaGear or Dressing Room.

Also, there are 2 ways to use the armory system -- the armory station that you hopefully got for free, or armory assistants that cost crowns.

isadoraisacat · May 2023

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

I wrote a big post above talking about the problems having the top end dps being extremely high (while nerfing the middle and low end).

From what I understand, the average dps in this game is roughly somewhere between 15-25k (before this nerf). This was hinted at with the introduction of companions, when the developers stated they did not want the companion dps to be higher than the average player’s.

So just think about what that means. The top dps, doing five to six times the average players dps.

Not twice or three times the average, but five to six times the average.

And in eso, where gear is kind of accessible, it means a lot of this difference falls upon the combat system itself.

Does that sound healthy for any game? If I was developing content for this game, I would not know where to begin.
How do I balance something “difficult”, twice the average dps? But the high end will destroy it.
80% of high end dps? Still too easy for them but how many people are going to see it anyway.

You have to create an accessible vet level, then a full throttle hard mode? Do we need to add layers in between now? That’s crazy.

I mean you don’t even need that because the majority of us playing these builds aren’t even doing the hard end game content.

The hardest for us is DLC dungeons on normal or vet non dlc. But after this nerf forget dlc dungeons I won’t be able to do those anymore at least not as a dps. So it’s just forcing me into changing my build up or making a new character and go as a healer.

If you aren't doing vet trials, and even if you are, the nerf won't stop you from being able to do them. Again, this is one of the smallest nerfs ZOS has ever put out (the nerf to empower) and changing gear sets is standard practice for every single player who does end game content (regarding the nerf to storm master). If you do anything less demanding than that content, it comes down to your mentality holding you back, not this nerf, dungeons depend a lot more on paying attention to things, and while high dps is needed from time to time, ultimates exist for a reason. Nothing is forcing you to play a healer, and if you want to participate in the highest tier of content, changing your build from patch to patch is the norm that everyone else deals with every patch, but for everything under that top tier of content, the damage loss won't kill you, this doom and gloom will.

There is no “doom and gloom” and I don’t want to be in the “highest tier” in already a very low dps player. I was hitting 15-18 k dps before using ha builds. Sucking wind. I have hand issues.

This build allows me to hit 30k and get though dlc dungeons I wasn’t able to before. The loss of dps has a major affect on the low end. Yes if your dps is 100k of course a small loss won’t matter. But when your dps is 27-30 k max of course any loss is going to set you back especially when you spent so much time upgrading gear for it a month later to be nerfed.

And once again there is no “doom and gloom” it’s being realistic. I can’t dps a normal build due to hand issues it’s not possible. This build is not something people want it’s clear the direction the combat is going and soon I will not be viable anymore with this build and people resent it. Why would I want to continue to play with others so resent how I play?

I’d rather switch roles and play the way I want (heavy attack ) solo … but with the dps loss it may not even be worth it solo.

I’ll definitely come back with results after it goes live I’ll make some records to show the loss. From tests I’ve seen it’s a massive hit to the low end.

Being realistic: If 100% of your damage comes form heavy attacks, and Empower is your only percentage buff to heavy attack damage, you are looking at a just under a 6% damage nerf. If you are wearing Oakensoul, using the weapons expert champion point node, those things dilute that nerf quite heavily, and if you use any abilities, like sorc pets or ground aoe's, and if you have enchantments doing damage on top of that, that 6% becomes even smaller. So, fact of the matter is, the empower nerf is barely on the table, if that nerf breaks your ability to do content, you have plenty of room to grow beyond what you were doing before.

Now Storm Master did get nerfed as well, but there are so many sets in the game to pick as alternatives, many from base zones, or are craftable, or are otherwise available from dungeons which means that, with the sticker book, you'll eventually get any piece you need no matter what. So let's spin the wheel over the hundreds of sets in ESO to find some alternatives that can work in most pieces of content aside from endgame trials.

You can use sets like Redmountain or Unfathomable Darkness, sets that drop form overland and just 'deal damage when you deal damage,' if you wanted to craft something you could use something like Torug's Pact, Oblivion's Foe, Red Eagle's Fury, New Moon Acolyte, Morkuldin, Coldharbour's Favorite, for just some sets that easily do damage or buff your damage output. Note that Red Eagle and New Moon Acolyte add bonus damage stats at the cost of making your skills cost more, but remember, heavy attack builds don't have sustain issues, you're heavy attacking all the time so the increased skill cost are nothing for those builds to deal with. Because, if you are at the 'low end,' you don't have as big of a need for raw damage, and there are so many more options open to you because of that, and if you are trying to push into higher end content, it is common for everyone there to have to swap gear between patches, and changing one base game dungeon set for another is very minor compared to what is normally required.

I’m wearing weapons expert I think it’s called
Which adds additional power to heavy attacks.
Sure I can swap gear but it will just get complained about once I switch and also nerfed. I’d rather just change roles and avoid all this non-sense all together at this point.

If you're on the PC, there are many ways to swap gear around quickly.

How do you do that other than armory crate ?

Edit : lol amory crate(no idea why I said crate at the end ) is a thing for asus I think it’s called armor station or armory? I know it lets you change between 2 set up’s or more (if you pay money ).

There are add-ons with names like AlphaGear or Dressing Room.

Also, there are 2 ways to use the armory system -- the armory station that you hopefully got for free, or armory assistants that cost crowns.

Ah ok yeah I got the armory station for free.
I didn’t know there was an assistant I’ll have to look into that … do you know how expensive that one is ?

As for the add ons how does that work? I just recently as of the last 4 days started messing with ad ons i found some really nice ones that make some quality of life changes.

MidniteOwl1913 · May 2023

Hapexamendios wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Hapexamendios wrote: »

As a middling level player, I don't feel there is any justification for the nerfs whatsoever ever. I am just to the point where I feel I'm making a good enough contribution to my groups to clear vet DLC dungeons. I'm not hitting anything spectacular that anyone should be concerned with. Leave it alone.

You'll still be doing almost the same damage. Empower going from 80% to 70% only nerfs Heavy Attacks by about 6% (you can look at the math in my post in the PTS section). Storm Master's nerf is inconsequential as you can swap to Noble Duelists and get comparable dps.

You don't seem to understand. There is no justification for the nerfs at all as far as I'm concerned. The percentages you list are irrelevant to me.

I could 't agree more. [snip]

[edited for baiting]

FrancisCrawford · May 2023

isadoraisacat wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

I wrote a big post above talking about the problems having the top end dps being extremely high (while nerfing the middle and low end).

From what I understand, the average dps in this game is roughly somewhere between 15-25k (before this nerf). This was hinted at with the introduction of companions, when the developers stated they did not want the companion dps to be higher than the average player’s.

So just think about what that means. The top dps, doing five to six times the average players dps.

Not twice or three times the average, but five to six times the average.

And in eso, where gear is kind of accessible, it means a lot of this difference falls upon the combat system itself.

Does that sound healthy for any game? If I was developing content for this game, I would not know where to begin.
How do I balance something “difficult”, twice the average dps? But the high end will destroy it.
80% of high end dps? Still too easy for them but how many people are going to see it anyway.

You have to create an accessible vet level, then a full throttle hard mode? Do we need to add layers in between now? That’s crazy.

I mean you don’t even need that because the majority of us playing these builds aren’t even doing the hard end game content.

The hardest for us is DLC dungeons on normal or vet non dlc. But after this nerf forget dlc dungeons I won’t be able to do those anymore at least not as a dps. So it’s just forcing me into changing my build up or making a new character and go as a healer.

If you aren't doing vet trials, and even if you are, the nerf won't stop you from being able to do them. Again, this is one of the smallest nerfs ZOS has ever put out (the nerf to empower) and changing gear sets is standard practice for every single player who does end game content (regarding the nerf to storm master). If you do anything less demanding than that content, it comes down to your mentality holding you back, not this nerf, dungeons depend a lot more on paying attention to things, and while high dps is needed from time to time, ultimates exist for a reason. Nothing is forcing you to play a healer, and if you want to participate in the highest tier of content, changing your build from patch to patch is the norm that everyone else deals with every patch, but for everything under that top tier of content, the damage loss won't kill you, this doom and gloom will.

There is no “doom and gloom” and I don’t want to be in the “highest tier” in already a very low dps player. I was hitting 15-18 k dps before using ha builds. Sucking wind. I have hand issues.

This build allows me to hit 30k and get though dlc dungeons I wasn’t able to before. The loss of dps has a major affect on the low end. Yes if your dps is 100k of course a small loss won’t matter. But when your dps is 27-30 k max of course any loss is going to set you back especially when you spent so much time upgrading gear for it a month later to be nerfed.

And once again there is no “doom and gloom” it’s being realistic. I can’t dps a normal build due to hand issues it’s not possible. This build is not something people want it’s clear the direction the combat is going and soon I will not be viable anymore with this build and people resent it. Why would I want to continue to play with others so resent how I play?

I’d rather switch roles and play the way I want (heavy attack ) solo … but with the dps loss it may not even be worth it solo.

I’ll definitely come back with results after it goes live I’ll make some records to show the loss. From tests I’ve seen it’s a massive hit to the low end.

Being realistic: If 100% of your damage comes form heavy attacks, and Empower is your only percentage buff to heavy attack damage, you are looking at a just under a 6% damage nerf. If you are wearing Oakensoul, using the weapons expert champion point node, those things dilute that nerf quite heavily, and if you use any abilities, like sorc pets or ground aoe's, and if you have enchantments doing damage on top of that, that 6% becomes even smaller. So, fact of the matter is, the empower nerf is barely on the table, if that nerf breaks your ability to do content, you have plenty of room to grow beyond what you were doing before.

Now Storm Master did get nerfed as well, but there are so many sets in the game to pick as alternatives, many from base zones, or are craftable, or are otherwise available from dungeons which means that, with the sticker book, you'll eventually get any piece you need no matter what. So let's spin the wheel over the hundreds of sets in ESO to find some alternatives that can work in most pieces of content aside from endgame trials.

You can use sets like Redmountain or Unfathomable Darkness, sets that drop form overland and just 'deal damage when you deal damage,' if you wanted to craft something you could use something like Torug's Pact, Oblivion's Foe, Red Eagle's Fury, New Moon Acolyte, Morkuldin, Coldharbour's Favorite, for just some sets that easily do damage or buff your damage output. Note that Red Eagle and New Moon Acolyte add bonus damage stats at the cost of making your skills cost more, but remember, heavy attack builds don't have sustain issues, you're heavy attacking all the time so the increased skill cost are nothing for those builds to deal with. Because, if you are at the 'low end,' you don't have as big of a need for raw damage, and there are so many more options open to you because of that, and if you are trying to push into higher end content, it is common for everyone there to have to swap gear between patches, and changing one base game dungeon set for another is very minor compared to what is normally required.

I’m wearing weapons expert I think it’s called
Which adds additional power to heavy attacks.
Sure I can swap gear but it will just get complained about once I switch and also nerfed. I’d rather just change roles and avoid all this non-sense all together at this point.

If you're on the PC, there are many ways to swap gear around quickly.

How do you do that other than armory crate ?

Edit : lol amory crate(no idea why I said crate at the end ) is a thing for asus I think it’s called armor station or armory? I know it lets you change between 2 set up’s or more (if you pay money ).

There are add-ons with names like AlphaGear or Dressing Room.

Also, there are 2 ways to use the armory system -- the armory station that you hopefully got for free, or armory assistants that cost crowns.

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

I wrote a big post above talking about the problems having the top end dps being extremely high (while nerfing the middle and low end).

From what I understand, the average dps in this game is roughly somewhere between 15-25k (before this nerf). This was hinted at with the introduction of companions, when the developers stated they did not want the companion dps to be higher than the average player’s.

So just think about what that means. The top dps, doing five to six times the average players dps.

Not twice or three times the average, but five to six times the average.

And in eso, where gear is kind of accessible, it means a lot of this difference falls upon the combat system itself.

Does that sound healthy for any game? If I was developing content for this game, I would not know where to begin.
How do I balance something “difficult”, twice the average dps? But the high end will destroy it.
80% of high end dps? Still too easy for them but how many people are going to see it anyway.

You have to create an accessible vet level, then a full throttle hard mode? Do we need to add layers in between now? That’s crazy.

I mean you don’t even need that because the majority of us playing these builds aren’t even doing the hard end game content.

The hardest for us is DLC dungeons on normal or vet non dlc. But after this nerf forget dlc dungeons I won’t be able to do those anymore at least not as a dps. So it’s just forcing me into changing my build up or making a new character and go as a healer.

If you aren't doing vet trials, and even if you are, the nerf won't stop you from being able to do them. Again, this is one of the smallest nerfs ZOS has ever put out (the nerf to empower) and changing gear sets is standard practice for every single player who does end game content (regarding the nerf to storm master). If you do anything less demanding than that content, it comes down to your mentality holding you back, not this nerf, dungeons depend a lot more on paying attention to things, and while high dps is needed from time to time, ultimates exist for a reason. Nothing is forcing you to play a healer, and if you want to participate in the highest tier of content, changing your build from patch to patch is the norm that everyone else deals with every patch, but for everything under that top tier of content, the damage loss won't kill you, this doom and gloom will.

There is no “doom and gloom” and I don’t want to be in the “highest tier” in already a very low dps player. I was hitting 15-18 k dps before using ha builds. Sucking wind. I have hand issues.

This build allows me to hit 30k and get though dlc dungeons I wasn’t able to before. The loss of dps has a major affect on the low end. Yes if your dps is 100k of course a small loss won’t matter. But when your dps is 27-30 k max of course any loss is going to set you back especially when you spent so much time upgrading gear for it a month later to be nerfed.

And once again there is no “doom and gloom” it’s being realistic. I can’t dps a normal build due to hand issues it’s not possible. This build is not something people want it’s clear the direction the combat is going and soon I will not be viable anymore with this build and people resent it. Why would I want to continue to play with others so resent how I play?

I’d rather switch roles and play the way I want (heavy attack ) solo … but with the dps loss it may not even be worth it solo.

I’ll definitely come back with results after it goes live I’ll make some records to show the loss. From tests I’ve seen it’s a massive hit to the low end.

Being realistic: If 100% of your damage comes form heavy attacks, and Empower is your only percentage buff to heavy attack damage, you are looking at a just under a 6% damage nerf. If you are wearing Oakensoul, using the weapons expert champion point node, those things dilute that nerf quite heavily, and if you use any abilities, like sorc pets or ground aoe's, and if you have enchantments doing damage on top of that, that 6% becomes even smaller. So, fact of the matter is, the empower nerf is barely on the table, if that nerf breaks your ability to do content, you have plenty of room to grow beyond what you were doing before.

Now Storm Master did get nerfed as well, but there are so many sets in the game to pick as alternatives, many from base zones, or are craftable, or are otherwise available from dungeons which means that, with the sticker book, you'll eventually get any piece you need no matter what. So let's spin the wheel over the hundreds of sets in ESO to find some alternatives that can work in most pieces of content aside from endgame trials.

You can use sets like Redmountain or Unfathomable Darkness, sets that drop form overland and just 'deal damage when you deal damage,' if you wanted to craft something you could use something like Torug's Pact, Oblivion's Foe, Red Eagle's Fury, New Moon Acolyte, Morkuldin, Coldharbour's Favorite, for just some sets that easily do damage or buff your damage output. Note that Red Eagle and New Moon Acolyte add bonus damage stats at the cost of making your skills cost more, but remember, heavy attack builds don't have sustain issues, you're heavy attacking all the time so the increased skill cost are nothing for those builds to deal with. Because, if you are at the 'low end,' you don't have as big of a need for raw damage, and there are so many more options open to you because of that, and if you are trying to push into higher end content, it is common for everyone there to have to swap gear between patches, and changing one base game dungeon set for another is very minor compared to what is normally required.

I’m wearing weapons expert I think it’s called
Which adds additional power to heavy attacks.
Sure I can swap gear but it will just get complained about once I switch and also nerfed. I’d rather just change roles and avoid all this non-sense all together at this point.

If you're on the PC, there are many ways to swap gear around quickly.

How do you do that other than armory crate ?

Edit : lol amory crate(no idea why I said crate at the end ) is a thing for asus I think it’s called armor station or armory? I know it lets you change between 2 set up’s or more (if you pay money ).

There are add-ons with names like AlphaGear or Dressing Room.

Also, there are 2 ways to use the armory system -- the armory station that you hopefully got for free, or armory assistants that cost crowns.

Ah ok yeah I got the armory station for free.
I didn’t know there was an assistant I’ll have to look into that … do you know how expensive that one is ?

As for the add ons how does that work? I just recently as of the last 4 days started messing with ad ons i found some really nice ones that make some quality of life changes.

The price of something in crowns can be found in the crown store.

For add-ons, check out:

The website https://www.esoui.com/addons.php to learn about add-on choices.
The website https://minion.mmoui.com/ to get the tool -- "Minion" -- most people use to manage add-ons.

One tip: Once you have downloaded add-ons you like, go to controls/keybindings to make it easier to launch the ones that indeed need active launching. I use my number keys 7-0 to launch Combat Metrics, AlphaGear (but Dressing Room seems to be updated more recently), WPamA (which does a lot of useful things if you have a bunch of alts), and the cross-character inventory checker I use.

isadoraisacat · May 2023

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

I wrote a big post above talking about the problems having the top end dps being extremely high (while nerfing the middle and low end).

From what I understand, the average dps in this game is roughly somewhere between 15-25k (before this nerf). This was hinted at with the introduction of companions, when the developers stated they did not want the companion dps to be higher than the average player’s.

So just think about what that means. The top dps, doing five to six times the average players dps.

Not twice or three times the average, but five to six times the average.

And in eso, where gear is kind of accessible, it means a lot of this difference falls upon the combat system itself.

Does that sound healthy for any game? If I was developing content for this game, I would not know where to begin.
How do I balance something “difficult”, twice the average dps? But the high end will destroy it.
80% of high end dps? Still too easy for them but how many people are going to see it anyway.

You have to create an accessible vet level, then a full throttle hard mode? Do we need to add layers in between now? That’s crazy.

I mean you don’t even need that because the majority of us playing these builds aren’t even doing the hard end game content.

The hardest for us is DLC dungeons on normal or vet non dlc. But after this nerf forget dlc dungeons I won’t be able to do those anymore at least not as a dps. So it’s just forcing me into changing my build up or making a new character and go as a healer.

If you aren't doing vet trials, and even if you are, the nerf won't stop you from being able to do them. Again, this is one of the smallest nerfs ZOS has ever put out (the nerf to empower) and changing gear sets is standard practice for every single player who does end game content (regarding the nerf to storm master). If you do anything less demanding than that content, it comes down to your mentality holding you back, not this nerf, dungeons depend a lot more on paying attention to things, and while high dps is needed from time to time, ultimates exist for a reason. Nothing is forcing you to play a healer, and if you want to participate in the highest tier of content, changing your build from patch to patch is the norm that everyone else deals with every patch, but for everything under that top tier of content, the damage loss won't kill you, this doom and gloom will.

There is no “doom and gloom” and I don’t want to be in the “highest tier” in already a very low dps player. I was hitting 15-18 k dps before using ha builds. Sucking wind. I have hand issues.

This build allows me to hit 30k and get though dlc dungeons I wasn’t able to before. The loss of dps has a major affect on the low end. Yes if your dps is 100k of course a small loss won’t matter. But when your dps is 27-30 k max of course any loss is going to set you back especially when you spent so much time upgrading gear for it a month later to be nerfed.

And once again there is no “doom and gloom” it’s being realistic. I can’t dps a normal build due to hand issues it’s not possible. This build is not something people want it’s clear the direction the combat is going and soon I will not be viable anymore with this build and people resent it. Why would I want to continue to play with others so resent how I play?

I’d rather switch roles and play the way I want (heavy attack ) solo … but with the dps loss it may not even be worth it solo.

I’ll definitely come back with results after it goes live I’ll make some records to show the loss. From tests I’ve seen it’s a massive hit to the low end.

Being realistic: If 100% of your damage comes form heavy attacks, and Empower is your only percentage buff to heavy attack damage, you are looking at a just under a 6% damage nerf. If you are wearing Oakensoul, using the weapons expert champion point node, those things dilute that nerf quite heavily, and if you use any abilities, like sorc pets or ground aoe's, and if you have enchantments doing damage on top of that, that 6% becomes even smaller. So, fact of the matter is, the empower nerf is barely on the table, if that nerf breaks your ability to do content, you have plenty of room to grow beyond what you were doing before.

Now Storm Master did get nerfed as well, but there are so many sets in the game to pick as alternatives, many from base zones, or are craftable, or are otherwise available from dungeons which means that, with the sticker book, you'll eventually get any piece you need no matter what. So let's spin the wheel over the hundreds of sets in ESO to find some alternatives that can work in most pieces of content aside from endgame trials.

You can use sets like Redmountain or Unfathomable Darkness, sets that drop form overland and just 'deal damage when you deal damage,' if you wanted to craft something you could use something like Torug's Pact, Oblivion's Foe, Red Eagle's Fury, New Moon Acolyte, Morkuldin, Coldharbour's Favorite, for just some sets that easily do damage or buff your damage output. Note that Red Eagle and New Moon Acolyte add bonus damage stats at the cost of making your skills cost more, but remember, heavy attack builds don't have sustain issues, you're heavy attacking all the time so the increased skill cost are nothing for those builds to deal with. Because, if you are at the 'low end,' you don't have as big of a need for raw damage, and there are so many more options open to you because of that, and if you are trying to push into higher end content, it is common for everyone there to have to swap gear between patches, and changing one base game dungeon set for another is very minor compared to what is normally required.

I’m wearing weapons expert I think it’s called
Which adds additional power to heavy attacks.
Sure I can swap gear but it will just get complained about once I switch and also nerfed. I’d rather just change roles and avoid all this non-sense all together at this point.

If you're on the PC, there are many ways to swap gear around quickly.

How do you do that other than armory crate ?

Edit : lol amory crate(no idea why I said crate at the end ) is a thing for asus I think it’s called armor station or armory? I know it lets you change between 2 set up’s or more (if you pay money ).

There are add-ons with names like AlphaGear or Dressing Room.

Also, there are 2 ways to use the armory system -- the armory station that you hopefully got for free, or armory assistants that cost crowns.

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

I wrote a big post above talking about the problems having the top end dps being extremely high (while nerfing the middle and low end).

From what I understand, the average dps in this game is roughly somewhere between 15-25k (before this nerf). This was hinted at with the introduction of companions, when the developers stated they did not want the companion dps to be higher than the average player’s.

So just think about what that means. The top dps, doing five to six times the average players dps.

Not twice or three times the average, but five to six times the average.

And in eso, where gear is kind of accessible, it means a lot of this difference falls upon the combat system itself.

Does that sound healthy for any game? If I was developing content for this game, I would not know where to begin.
How do I balance something “difficult”, twice the average dps? But the high end will destroy it.
80% of high end dps? Still too easy for them but how many people are going to see it anyway.

You have to create an accessible vet level, then a full throttle hard mode? Do we need to add layers in between now? That’s crazy.

I mean you don’t even need that because the majority of us playing these builds aren’t even doing the hard end game content.

The hardest for us is DLC dungeons on normal or vet non dlc. But after this nerf forget dlc dungeons I won’t be able to do those anymore at least not as a dps. So it’s just forcing me into changing my build up or making a new character and go as a healer.

If you aren't doing vet trials, and even if you are, the nerf won't stop you from being able to do them. Again, this is one of the smallest nerfs ZOS has ever put out (the nerf to empower) and changing gear sets is standard practice for every single player who does end game content (regarding the nerf to storm master). If you do anything less demanding than that content, it comes down to your mentality holding you back, not this nerf, dungeons depend a lot more on paying attention to things, and while high dps is needed from time to time, ultimates exist for a reason. Nothing is forcing you to play a healer, and if you want to participate in the highest tier of content, changing your build from patch to patch is the norm that everyone else deals with every patch, but for everything under that top tier of content, the damage loss won't kill you, this doom and gloom will.

There is no “doom and gloom” and I don’t want to be in the “highest tier” in already a very low dps player. I was hitting 15-18 k dps before using ha builds. Sucking wind. I have hand issues.

This build allows me to hit 30k and get though dlc dungeons I wasn’t able to before. The loss of dps has a major affect on the low end. Yes if your dps is 100k of course a small loss won’t matter. But when your dps is 27-30 k max of course any loss is going to set you back especially when you spent so much time upgrading gear for it a month later to be nerfed.

And once again there is no “doom and gloom” it’s being realistic. I can’t dps a normal build due to hand issues it’s not possible. This build is not something people want it’s clear the direction the combat is going and soon I will not be viable anymore with this build and people resent it. Why would I want to continue to play with others so resent how I play?

I’d rather switch roles and play the way I want (heavy attack ) solo … but with the dps loss it may not even be worth it solo.

I’ll definitely come back with results after it goes live I’ll make some records to show the loss. From tests I’ve seen it’s a massive hit to the low end.

Being realistic: If 100% of your damage comes form heavy attacks, and Empower is your only percentage buff to heavy attack damage, you are looking at a just under a 6% damage nerf. If you are wearing Oakensoul, using the weapons expert champion point node, those things dilute that nerf quite heavily, and if you use any abilities, like sorc pets or ground aoe's, and if you have enchantments doing damage on top of that, that 6% becomes even smaller. So, fact of the matter is, the empower nerf is barely on the table, if that nerf breaks your ability to do content, you have plenty of room to grow beyond what you were doing before.

Now Storm Master did get nerfed as well, but there are so many sets in the game to pick as alternatives, many from base zones, or are craftable, or are otherwise available from dungeons which means that, with the sticker book, you'll eventually get any piece you need no matter what. So let's spin the wheel over the hundreds of sets in ESO to find some alternatives that can work in most pieces of content aside from endgame trials.

You can use sets like Redmountain or Unfathomable Darkness, sets that drop form overland and just 'deal damage when you deal damage,' if you wanted to craft something you could use something like Torug's Pact, Oblivion's Foe, Red Eagle's Fury, New Moon Acolyte, Morkuldin, Coldharbour's Favorite, for just some sets that easily do damage or buff your damage output. Note that Red Eagle and New Moon Acolyte add bonus damage stats at the cost of making your skills cost more, but remember, heavy attack builds don't have sustain issues, you're heavy attacking all the time so the increased skill cost are nothing for those builds to deal with. Because, if you are at the 'low end,' you don't have as big of a need for raw damage, and there are so many more options open to you because of that, and if you are trying to push into higher end content, it is common for everyone there to have to swap gear between patches, and changing one base game dungeon set for another is very minor compared to what is normally required.

I’m wearing weapons expert I think it’s called
Which adds additional power to heavy attacks.
Sure I can swap gear but it will just get complained about once I switch and also nerfed. I’d rather just change roles and avoid all this non-sense all together at this point.

If you're on the PC, there are many ways to swap gear around quickly.

How do you do that other than armory crate ?

Edit : lol amory crate(no idea why I said crate at the end ) is a thing for asus I think it’s called armor station or armory? I know it lets you change between 2 set up’s or more (if you pay money ).

There are add-ons with names like AlphaGear or Dressing Room.

Also, there are 2 ways to use the armory system -- the armory station that you hopefully got for free, or armory assistants that cost crowns.

Ah ok yeah I got the armory station for free.
I didn’t know there was an assistant I’ll have to look into that … do you know how expensive that one is ?

As for the add ons how does that work? I just recently as of the last 4 days started messing with ad ons i found some really nice ones that make some quality of life changes.

The price of something in crowns can be found in the crown store.

For add-ons, check out:
The website https://www.esoui.com/addons.php to learn about add-on choices.

The website https://minion.mmoui.com/ to get the tool -- "Minion" -- most people use to manage add-ons.

One tip: Once you have downloaded add-ons you like, go to controls/keybindings to make it easier to launch the ones that indeed need active launching. I use my number keys 7-0 to launch Combat Metrics, AlphaGear (but Dressing Room seems to be updated more recently), WPamA (which does a lot of useful things if you have a bunch of alts), and the cross-character inventory checker I use.

Right I’m just asking how the add ons work. And if you happened to know the price of the assistant off hand (I assume you don’t as per your response ).

I’m just asking how the dressing room works and what exactly makes it different from the Armor station.. not how to install them.

vsrs_au · May 2023

The armory assistant (and the other assistants also, I think) cost 5,000 crowns. In other words, equivalent in real world currency to the cost of a new game!

isadoraisacat · May 2023

vsrs_au wrote: »

The armory assistant (and the other assistants also, I think) cost 5,000 crowns. In other words, equivalent in real world currency to the cost of a new game!

Gotcha I’ll pass than. Thank you for the answer.

FrancisCrawford · May 2023

isadoraisacat wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

I wrote a big post above talking about the problems having the top end dps being extremely high (while nerfing the middle and low end).

From what I understand, the average dps in this game is roughly somewhere between 15-25k (before this nerf). This was hinted at with the introduction of companions, when the developers stated they did not want the companion dps to be higher than the average player’s.

So just think about what that means. The top dps, doing five to six times the average players dps.

Not twice or three times the average, but five to six times the average.

And in eso, where gear is kind of accessible, it means a lot of this difference falls upon the combat system itself.

Does that sound healthy for any game? If I was developing content for this game, I would not know where to begin.
How do I balance something “difficult”, twice the average dps? But the high end will destroy it.
80% of high end dps? Still too easy for them but how many people are going to see it anyway.

You have to create an accessible vet level, then a full throttle hard mode? Do we need to add layers in between now? That’s crazy.

I mean you don’t even need that because the majority of us playing these builds aren’t even doing the hard end game content.

The hardest for us is DLC dungeons on normal or vet non dlc. But after this nerf forget dlc dungeons I won’t be able to do those anymore at least not as a dps. So it’s just forcing me into changing my build up or making a new character and go as a healer.

If you aren't doing vet trials, and even if you are, the nerf won't stop you from being able to do them. Again, this is one of the smallest nerfs ZOS has ever put out (the nerf to empower) and changing gear sets is standard practice for every single player who does end game content (regarding the nerf to storm master). If you do anything less demanding than that content, it comes down to your mentality holding you back, not this nerf, dungeons depend a lot more on paying attention to things, and while high dps is needed from time to time, ultimates exist for a reason. Nothing is forcing you to play a healer, and if you want to participate in the highest tier of content, changing your build from patch to patch is the norm that everyone else deals with every patch, but for everything under that top tier of content, the damage loss won't kill you, this doom and gloom will.

There is no “doom and gloom” and I don’t want to be in the “highest tier” in already a very low dps player. I was hitting 15-18 k dps before using ha builds. Sucking wind. I have hand issues.

This build allows me to hit 30k and get though dlc dungeons I wasn’t able to before. The loss of dps has a major affect on the low end. Yes if your dps is 100k of course a small loss won’t matter. But when your dps is 27-30 k max of course any loss is going to set you back especially when you spent so much time upgrading gear for it a month later to be nerfed.

And once again there is no “doom and gloom” it’s being realistic. I can’t dps a normal build due to hand issues it’s not possible. This build is not something people want it’s clear the direction the combat is going and soon I will not be viable anymore with this build and people resent it. Why would I want to continue to play with others so resent how I play?

I’d rather switch roles and play the way I want (heavy attack ) solo … but with the dps loss it may not even be worth it solo.

I’ll definitely come back with results after it goes live I’ll make some records to show the loss. From tests I’ve seen it’s a massive hit to the low end.

Being realistic: If 100% of your damage comes form heavy attacks, and Empower is your only percentage buff to heavy attack damage, you are looking at a just under a 6% damage nerf. If you are wearing Oakensoul, using the weapons expert champion point node, those things dilute that nerf quite heavily, and if you use any abilities, like sorc pets or ground aoe's, and if you have enchantments doing damage on top of that, that 6% becomes even smaller. So, fact of the matter is, the empower nerf is barely on the table, if that nerf breaks your ability to do content, you have plenty of room to grow beyond what you were doing before.

Now Storm Master did get nerfed as well, but there are so many sets in the game to pick as alternatives, many from base zones, or are craftable, or are otherwise available from dungeons which means that, with the sticker book, you'll eventually get any piece you need no matter what. So let's spin the wheel over the hundreds of sets in ESO to find some alternatives that can work in most pieces of content aside from endgame trials.

You can use sets like Redmountain or Unfathomable Darkness, sets that drop form overland and just 'deal damage when you deal damage,' if you wanted to craft something you could use something like Torug's Pact, Oblivion's Foe, Red Eagle's Fury, New Moon Acolyte, Morkuldin, Coldharbour's Favorite, for just some sets that easily do damage or buff your damage output. Note that Red Eagle and New Moon Acolyte add bonus damage stats at the cost of making your skills cost more, but remember, heavy attack builds don't have sustain issues, you're heavy attacking all the time so the increased skill cost are nothing for those builds to deal with. Because, if you are at the 'low end,' you don't have as big of a need for raw damage, and there are so many more options open to you because of that, and if you are trying to push into higher end content, it is common for everyone there to have to swap gear between patches, and changing one base game dungeon set for another is very minor compared to what is normally required.

I’m wearing weapons expert I think it’s called
Which adds additional power to heavy attacks.
Sure I can swap gear but it will just get complained about once I switch and also nerfed. I’d rather just change roles and avoid all this non-sense all together at this point.

If you're on the PC, there are many ways to swap gear around quickly.

How do you do that other than armory crate ?

Edit : lol amory crate(no idea why I said crate at the end ) is a thing for asus I think it’s called armor station or armory? I know it lets you change between 2 set up’s or more (if you pay money ).

There are add-ons with names like AlphaGear or Dressing Room.

Also, there are 2 ways to use the armory system -- the armory station that you hopefully got for free, or armory assistants that cost crowns.

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

I wrote a big post above talking about the problems having the top end dps being extremely high (while nerfing the middle and low end).

From what I understand, the average dps in this game is roughly somewhere between 15-25k (before this nerf). This was hinted at with the introduction of companions, when the developers stated they did not want the companion dps to be higher than the average player’s.

So just think about what that means. The top dps, doing five to six times the average players dps.

Not twice or three times the average, but five to six times the average.

And in eso, where gear is kind of accessible, it means a lot of this difference falls upon the combat system itself.

Does that sound healthy for any game? If I was developing content for this game, I would not know where to begin.
How do I balance something “difficult”, twice the average dps? But the high end will destroy it.
80% of high end dps? Still too easy for them but how many people are going to see it anyway.

You have to create an accessible vet level, then a full throttle hard mode? Do we need to add layers in between now? That’s crazy.

I mean you don’t even need that because the majority of us playing these builds aren’t even doing the hard end game content.

The hardest for us is DLC dungeons on normal or vet non dlc. But after this nerf forget dlc dungeons I won’t be able to do those anymore at least not as a dps. So it’s just forcing me into changing my build up or making a new character and go as a healer.

If you aren't doing vet trials, and even if you are, the nerf won't stop you from being able to do them. Again, this is one of the smallest nerfs ZOS has ever put out (the nerf to empower) and changing gear sets is standard practice for every single player who does end game content (regarding the nerf to storm master). If you do anything less demanding than that content, it comes down to your mentality holding you back, not this nerf, dungeons depend a lot more on paying attention to things, and while high dps is needed from time to time, ultimates exist for a reason. Nothing is forcing you to play a healer, and if you want to participate in the highest tier of content, changing your build from patch to patch is the norm that everyone else deals with every patch, but for everything under that top tier of content, the damage loss won't kill you, this doom and gloom will.

There is no “doom and gloom” and I don’t want to be in the “highest tier” in already a very low dps player. I was hitting 15-18 k dps before using ha builds. Sucking wind. I have hand issues.

This build allows me to hit 30k and get though dlc dungeons I wasn’t able to before. The loss of dps has a major affect on the low end. Yes if your dps is 100k of course a small loss won’t matter. But when your dps is 27-30 k max of course any loss is going to set you back especially when you spent so much time upgrading gear for it a month later to be nerfed.

And once again there is no “doom and gloom” it’s being realistic. I can’t dps a normal build due to hand issues it’s not possible. This build is not something people want it’s clear the direction the combat is going and soon I will not be viable anymore with this build and people resent it. Why would I want to continue to play with others so resent how I play?

I’d rather switch roles and play the way I want (heavy attack ) solo … but with the dps loss it may not even be worth it solo.

I’ll definitely come back with results after it goes live I’ll make some records to show the loss. From tests I’ve seen it’s a massive hit to the low end.

Being realistic: If 100% of your damage comes form heavy attacks, and Empower is your only percentage buff to heavy attack damage, you are looking at a just under a 6% damage nerf. If you are wearing Oakensoul, using the weapons expert champion point node, those things dilute that nerf quite heavily, and if you use any abilities, like sorc pets or ground aoe's, and if you have enchantments doing damage on top of that, that 6% becomes even smaller. So, fact of the matter is, the empower nerf is barely on the table, if that nerf breaks your ability to do content, you have plenty of room to grow beyond what you were doing before.

Now Storm Master did get nerfed as well, but there are so many sets in the game to pick as alternatives, many from base zones, or are craftable, or are otherwise available from dungeons which means that, with the sticker book, you'll eventually get any piece you need no matter what. So let's spin the wheel over the hundreds of sets in ESO to find some alternatives that can work in most pieces of content aside from endgame trials.

You can use sets like Redmountain or Unfathomable Darkness, sets that drop form overland and just 'deal damage when you deal damage,' if you wanted to craft something you could use something like Torug's Pact, Oblivion's Foe, Red Eagle's Fury, New Moon Acolyte, Morkuldin, Coldharbour's Favorite, for just some sets that easily do damage or buff your damage output. Note that Red Eagle and New Moon Acolyte add bonus damage stats at the cost of making your skills cost more, but remember, heavy attack builds don't have sustain issues, you're heavy attacking all the time so the increased skill cost are nothing for those builds to deal with. Because, if you are at the 'low end,' you don't have as big of a need for raw damage, and there are so many more options open to you because of that, and if you are trying to push into higher end content, it is common for everyone there to have to swap gear between patches, and changing one base game dungeon set for another is very minor compared to what is normally required.

I’m wearing weapons expert I think it’s called
Which adds additional power to heavy attacks.
Sure I can swap gear but it will just get complained about once I switch and also nerfed. I’d rather just change roles and avoid all this non-sense all together at this point.

If you're on the PC, there are many ways to swap gear around quickly.

How do you do that other than armory crate ?

Edit : lol amory crate(no idea why I said crate at the end ) is a thing for asus I think it’s called armor station or armory? I know it lets you change between 2 set up’s or more (if you pay money ).

There are add-ons with names like AlphaGear or Dressing Room.

Also, there are 2 ways to use the armory system -- the armory station that you hopefully got for free, or armory assistants that cost crowns.

Ah ok yeah I got the armory station for free.
I didn’t know there was an assistant I’ll have to look into that … do you know how expensive that one is ?

As for the add ons how does that work? I just recently as of the last 4 days started messing with ad ons i found some really nice ones that make some quality of life changes.

The price of something in crowns can be found in the crown store.

For add-ons, check out:
The website https://www.esoui.com/addons.php to learn about add-on choices.

The website https://minion.mmoui.com/ to get the tool -- "Minion" -- most people use to manage add-ons.

One tip: Once you have downloaded add-ons you like, go to controls/keybindings to make it easier to launch the ones that indeed need active launching. I use my number keys 7-0 to launch Combat Metrics, AlphaGear (but Dressing Room seems to be updated more recently), WPamA (which does a lot of useful things if you have a bunch of alts), and the cross-character inventory checker I use.

Right I’m just asking how the add ons work. And if you happened to know the price of the assistant off hand (I assume you don’t as per your response ).

I’m just asking how the dressing room works and what exactly makes it different from the Armor station.. not how to install them.

The dressing room class of add-ons lets you change gear whenever you want, as long as the new gear is in your inventory or you are talking to a banker (in a bank or in the form a banking assistant as the case may be). You can also change your active skills (but not the morphs). And you can do this anywhere you are -- dungeons, Cyrodiil, whatever. (Of course, you can't change any skills or gear during combat.)

So: Less powerful than the armory, but more portable. And you can have a vast number of different builds saved, if you choose.

As for how to install them -- Minion handles the downloading and updating of add-ons.

isadoraisacat · May 2023

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

I wrote a big post above talking about the problems having the top end dps being extremely high (while nerfing the middle and low end).

From what I understand, the average dps in this game is roughly somewhere between 15-25k (before this nerf). This was hinted at with the introduction of companions, when the developers stated they did not want the companion dps to be higher than the average player’s.

So just think about what that means. The top dps, doing five to six times the average players dps.

Not twice or three times the average, but five to six times the average.

And in eso, where gear is kind of accessible, it means a lot of this difference falls upon the combat system itself.

Does that sound healthy for any game? If I was developing content for this game, I would not know where to begin.
How do I balance something “difficult”, twice the average dps? But the high end will destroy it.
80% of high end dps? Still too easy for them but how many people are going to see it anyway.

You have to create an accessible vet level, then a full throttle hard mode? Do we need to add layers in between now? That’s crazy.

I mean you don’t even need that because the majority of us playing these builds aren’t even doing the hard end game content.

The hardest for us is DLC dungeons on normal or vet non dlc. But after this nerf forget dlc dungeons I won’t be able to do those anymore at least not as a dps. So it’s just forcing me into changing my build up or making a new character and go as a healer.

If you aren't doing vet trials, and even if you are, the nerf won't stop you from being able to do them. Again, this is one of the smallest nerfs ZOS has ever put out (the nerf to empower) and changing gear sets is standard practice for every single player who does end game content (regarding the nerf to storm master). If you do anything less demanding than that content, it comes down to your mentality holding you back, not this nerf, dungeons depend a lot more on paying attention to things, and while high dps is needed from time to time, ultimates exist for a reason. Nothing is forcing you to play a healer, and if you want to participate in the highest tier of content, changing your build from patch to patch is the norm that everyone else deals with every patch, but for everything under that top tier of content, the damage loss won't kill you, this doom and gloom will.

There is no “doom and gloom” and I don’t want to be in the “highest tier” in already a very low dps player. I was hitting 15-18 k dps before using ha builds. Sucking wind. I have hand issues.

This build allows me to hit 30k and get though dlc dungeons I wasn’t able to before. The loss of dps has a major affect on the low end. Yes if your dps is 100k of course a small loss won’t matter. But when your dps is 27-30 k max of course any loss is going to set you back especially when you spent so much time upgrading gear for it a month later to be nerfed.

And once again there is no “doom and gloom” it’s being realistic. I can’t dps a normal build due to hand issues it’s not possible. This build is not something people want it’s clear the direction the combat is going and soon I will not be viable anymore with this build and people resent it. Why would I want to continue to play with others so resent how I play?

I’d rather switch roles and play the way I want (heavy attack ) solo … but with the dps loss it may not even be worth it solo.

I’ll definitely come back with results after it goes live I’ll make some records to show the loss. From tests I’ve seen it’s a massive hit to the low end.

Being realistic: If 100% of your damage comes form heavy attacks, and Empower is your only percentage buff to heavy attack damage, you are looking at a just under a 6% damage nerf. If you are wearing Oakensoul, using the weapons expert champion point node, those things dilute that nerf quite heavily, and if you use any abilities, like sorc pets or ground aoe's, and if you have enchantments doing damage on top of that, that 6% becomes even smaller. So, fact of the matter is, the empower nerf is barely on the table, if that nerf breaks your ability to do content, you have plenty of room to grow beyond what you were doing before.

Now Storm Master did get nerfed as well, but there are so many sets in the game to pick as alternatives, many from base zones, or are craftable, or are otherwise available from dungeons which means that, with the sticker book, you'll eventually get any piece you need no matter what. So let's spin the wheel over the hundreds of sets in ESO to find some alternatives that can work in most pieces of content aside from endgame trials.

You can use sets like Redmountain or Unfathomable Darkness, sets that drop form overland and just 'deal damage when you deal damage,' if you wanted to craft something you could use something like Torug's Pact, Oblivion's Foe, Red Eagle's Fury, New Moon Acolyte, Morkuldin, Coldharbour's Favorite, for just some sets that easily do damage or buff your damage output. Note that Red Eagle and New Moon Acolyte add bonus damage stats at the cost of making your skills cost more, but remember, heavy attack builds don't have sustain issues, you're heavy attacking all the time so the increased skill cost are nothing for those builds to deal with. Because, if you are at the 'low end,' you don't have as big of a need for raw damage, and there are so many more options open to you because of that, and if you are trying to push into higher end content, it is common for everyone there to have to swap gear between patches, and changing one base game dungeon set for another is very minor compared to what is normally required.

I’m wearing weapons expert I think it’s called
Which adds additional power to heavy attacks.
Sure I can swap gear but it will just get complained about once I switch and also nerfed. I’d rather just change roles and avoid all this non-sense all together at this point.

If you're on the PC, there are many ways to swap gear around quickly.

How do you do that other than armory crate ?

Edit : lol amory crate(no idea why I said crate at the end ) is a thing for asus I think it’s called armor station or armory? I know it lets you change between 2 set up’s or more (if you pay money ).

There are add-ons with names like AlphaGear or Dressing Room.

Also, there are 2 ways to use the armory system -- the armory station that you hopefully got for free, or armory assistants that cost crowns.

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

I wrote a big post above talking about the problems having the top end dps being extremely high (while nerfing the middle and low end).

From what I understand, the average dps in this game is roughly somewhere between 15-25k (before this nerf). This was hinted at with the introduction of companions, when the developers stated they did not want the companion dps to be higher than the average player’s.

So just think about what that means. The top dps, doing five to six times the average players dps.

Not twice or three times the average, but five to six times the average.

And in eso, where gear is kind of accessible, it means a lot of this difference falls upon the combat system itself.

Does that sound healthy for any game? If I was developing content for this game, I would not know where to begin.
How do I balance something “difficult”, twice the average dps? But the high end will destroy it.
80% of high end dps? Still too easy for them but how many people are going to see it anyway.

You have to create an accessible vet level, then a full throttle hard mode? Do we need to add layers in between now? That’s crazy.

I mean you don’t even need that because the majority of us playing these builds aren’t even doing the hard end game content.

The hardest for us is DLC dungeons on normal or vet non dlc. But after this nerf forget dlc dungeons I won’t be able to do those anymore at least not as a dps. So it’s just forcing me into changing my build up or making a new character and go as a healer.

If you aren't doing vet trials, and even if you are, the nerf won't stop you from being able to do them. Again, this is one of the smallest nerfs ZOS has ever put out (the nerf to empower) and changing gear sets is standard practice for every single player who does end game content (regarding the nerf to storm master). If you do anything less demanding than that content, it comes down to your mentality holding you back, not this nerf, dungeons depend a lot more on paying attention to things, and while high dps is needed from time to time, ultimates exist for a reason. Nothing is forcing you to play a healer, and if you want to participate in the highest tier of content, changing your build from patch to patch is the norm that everyone else deals with every patch, but for everything under that top tier of content, the damage loss won't kill you, this doom and gloom will.

There is no “doom and gloom” and I don’t want to be in the “highest tier” in already a very low dps player. I was hitting 15-18 k dps before using ha builds. Sucking wind. I have hand issues.

This build allows me to hit 30k and get though dlc dungeons I wasn’t able to before. The loss of dps has a major affect on the low end. Yes if your dps is 100k of course a small loss won’t matter. But when your dps is 27-30 k max of course any loss is going to set you back especially when you spent so much time upgrading gear for it a month later to be nerfed.

And once again there is no “doom and gloom” it’s being realistic. I can’t dps a normal build due to hand issues it’s not possible. This build is not something people want it’s clear the direction the combat is going and soon I will not be viable anymore with this build and people resent it. Why would I want to continue to play with others so resent how I play?

I’d rather switch roles and play the way I want (heavy attack ) solo … but with the dps loss it may not even be worth it solo.

I’ll definitely come back with results after it goes live I’ll make some records to show the loss. From tests I’ve seen it’s a massive hit to the low end.

Being realistic: If 100% of your damage comes form heavy attacks, and Empower is your only percentage buff to heavy attack damage, you are looking at a just under a 6% damage nerf. If you are wearing Oakensoul, using the weapons expert champion point node, those things dilute that nerf quite heavily, and if you use any abilities, like sorc pets or ground aoe's, and if you have enchantments doing damage on top of that, that 6% becomes even smaller. So, fact of the matter is, the empower nerf is barely on the table, if that nerf breaks your ability to do content, you have plenty of room to grow beyond what you were doing before.

Now Storm Master did get nerfed as well, but there are so many sets in the game to pick as alternatives, many from base zones, or are craftable, or are otherwise available from dungeons which means that, with the sticker book, you'll eventually get any piece you need no matter what. So let's spin the wheel over the hundreds of sets in ESO to find some alternatives that can work in most pieces of content aside from endgame trials.

You can use sets like Redmountain or Unfathomable Darkness, sets that drop form overland and just 'deal damage when you deal damage,' if you wanted to craft something you could use something like Torug's Pact, Oblivion's Foe, Red Eagle's Fury, New Moon Acolyte, Morkuldin, Coldharbour's Favorite, for just some sets that easily do damage or buff your damage output. Note that Red Eagle and New Moon Acolyte add bonus damage stats at the cost of making your skills cost more, but remember, heavy attack builds don't have sustain issues, you're heavy attacking all the time so the increased skill cost are nothing for those builds to deal with. Because, if you are at the 'low end,' you don't have as big of a need for raw damage, and there are so many more options open to you because of that, and if you are trying to push into higher end content, it is common for everyone there to have to swap gear between patches, and changing one base game dungeon set for another is very minor compared to what is normally required.

I’m wearing weapons expert I think it’s called
Which adds additional power to heavy attacks.
Sure I can swap gear but it will just get complained about once I switch and also nerfed. I’d rather just change roles and avoid all this non-sense all together at this point.

If you're on the PC, there are many ways to swap gear around quickly.

How do you do that other than armory crate ?

Edit : lol amory crate(no idea why I said crate at the end ) is a thing for asus I think it’s called armor station or armory? I know it lets you change between 2 set up’s or more (if you pay money ).

There are add-ons with names like AlphaGear or Dressing Room.

Also, there are 2 ways to use the armory system -- the armory station that you hopefully got for free, or armory assistants that cost crowns.

Ah ok yeah I got the armory station for free.
I didn’t know there was an assistant I’ll have to look into that … do you know how expensive that one is ?

As for the add ons how does that work? I just recently as of the last 4 days started messing with ad ons i found some really nice ones that make some quality of life changes.

The price of something in crowns can be found in the crown store.

For add-ons, check out:
The website https://www.esoui.com/addons.php to learn about add-on choices.

The website https://minion.mmoui.com/ to get the tool -- "Minion" -- most people use to manage add-ons.

One tip: Once you have downloaded add-ons you like, go to controls/keybindings to make it easier to launch the ones that indeed need active launching. I use my number keys 7-0 to launch Combat Metrics, AlphaGear (but Dressing Room seems to be updated more recently), WPamA (which does a lot of useful things if you have a bunch of alts), and the cross-character inventory checker I use.

Right I’m just asking how the add ons work. And if you happened to know the price of the assistant off hand (I assume you don’t as per your response ).

I’m just asking how the dressing room works and what exactly makes it different from the Armor station.. not how to install them.

The dressing room class of add-ons lets you change gear whenever you want, as long as the new gear is in your inventory or you are talking to a banker (in a bank or in the form a banking assistant as the case may be). You can also change your active skills (but not the morphs). And you can do this anywhere you are -- dungeons, Cyrodiil, whatever. (Of course, you can't change any skills or gear during combat.)

So: Less powerful than the armory, but more portable. And you can have a vast number of different builds saved, if you choose.

As for how to install them -- Minion handles the downloading and updating of add-ons.

Gotcha I plan on 2 builds.
1. My current HA solo build
2. Healer build for group dungeons

Since I will
Be changing cp passives and champion bar stuff I prob would stick to the armor station and just change my set up prior to doing A Dungeon than change back when I’m done to do my solo questing usual stuff.

Unless this thing changes your cp stuff it wouldn’t be all that useful for what I’m planning to do.

isadoraisacat · May 2023

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

I wrote a big post above talking about the problems having the top end dps being extremely high (while nerfing the middle and low end).

From what I understand, the average dps in this game is roughly somewhere between 15-25k (before this nerf). This was hinted at with the introduction of companions, when the developers stated they did not want the companion dps to be higher than the average player’s.

So just think about what that means. The top dps, doing five to six times the average players dps.

Not twice or three times the average, but five to six times the average.

And in eso, where gear is kind of accessible, it means a lot of this difference falls upon the combat system itself.

Does that sound healthy for any game? If I was developing content for this game, I would not know where to begin.
How do I balance something “difficult”, twice the average dps? But the high end will destroy it.
80% of high end dps? Still too easy for them but how many people are going to see it anyway.

You have to create an accessible vet level, then a full throttle hard mode? Do we need to add layers in between now? That’s crazy.

I mean you don’t even need that because the majority of us playing these builds aren’t even doing the hard end game content.

The hardest for us is DLC dungeons on normal or vet non dlc. But after this nerf forget dlc dungeons I won’t be able to do those anymore at least not as a dps. So it’s just forcing me into changing my build up or making a new character and go as a healer.

If you aren't doing vet trials, and even if you are, the nerf won't stop you from being able to do them. Again, this is one of the smallest nerfs ZOS has ever put out (the nerf to empower) and changing gear sets is standard practice for every single player who does end game content (regarding the nerf to storm master). If you do anything less demanding than that content, it comes down to your mentality holding you back, not this nerf, dungeons depend a lot more on paying attention to things, and while high dps is needed from time to time, ultimates exist for a reason. Nothing is forcing you to play a healer, and if you want to participate in the highest tier of content, changing your build from patch to patch is the norm that everyone else deals with every patch, but for everything under that top tier of content, the damage loss won't kill you, this doom and gloom will.

There is no “doom and gloom” and I don’t want to be in the “highest tier” in already a very low dps player. I was hitting 15-18 k dps before using ha builds. Sucking wind. I have hand issues.

This build allows me to hit 30k and get though dlc dungeons I wasn’t able to before. The loss of dps has a major affect on the low end. Yes if your dps is 100k of course a small loss won’t matter. But when your dps is 27-30 k max of course any loss is going to set you back especially when you spent so much time upgrading gear for it a month later to be nerfed.

And once again there is no “doom and gloom” it’s being realistic. I can’t dps a normal build due to hand issues it’s not possible. This build is not something people want it’s clear the direction the combat is going and soon I will not be viable anymore with this build and people resent it. Why would I want to continue to play with others so resent how I play?

I’d rather switch roles and play the way I want (heavy attack ) solo … but with the dps loss it may not even be worth it solo.

I’ll definitely come back with results after it goes live I’ll make some records to show the loss. From tests I’ve seen it’s a massive hit to the low end.

Being realistic: If 100% of your damage comes form heavy attacks, and Empower is your only percentage buff to heavy attack damage, you are looking at a just under a 6% damage nerf. If you are wearing Oakensoul, using the weapons expert champion point node, those things dilute that nerf quite heavily, and if you use any abilities, like sorc pets or ground aoe's, and if you have enchantments doing damage on top of that, that 6% becomes even smaller. So, fact of the matter is, the empower nerf is barely on the table, if that nerf breaks your ability to do content, you have plenty of room to grow beyond what you were doing before.

Now Storm Master did get nerfed as well, but there are so many sets in the game to pick as alternatives, many from base zones, or are craftable, or are otherwise available from dungeons which means that, with the sticker book, you'll eventually get any piece you need no matter what. So let's spin the wheel over the hundreds of sets in ESO to find some alternatives that can work in most pieces of content aside from endgame trials.

You can use sets like Redmountain or Unfathomable Darkness, sets that drop form overland and just 'deal damage when you deal damage,' if you wanted to craft something you could use something like Torug's Pact, Oblivion's Foe, Red Eagle's Fury, New Moon Acolyte, Morkuldin, Coldharbour's Favorite, for just some sets that easily do damage or buff your damage output. Note that Red Eagle and New Moon Acolyte add bonus damage stats at the cost of making your skills cost more, but remember, heavy attack builds don't have sustain issues, you're heavy attacking all the time so the increased skill cost are nothing for those builds to deal with. Because, if you are at the 'low end,' you don't have as big of a need for raw damage, and there are so many more options open to you because of that, and if you are trying to push into higher end content, it is common for everyone there to have to swap gear between patches, and changing one base game dungeon set for another is very minor compared to what is normally required.

I’m wearing weapons expert I think it’s called
Which adds additional power to heavy attacks.
Sure I can swap gear but it will just get complained about once I switch and also nerfed. I’d rather just change roles and avoid all this non-sense all together at this point.

If you're on the PC, there are many ways to swap gear around quickly.

How do you do that other than armory crate ?

Edit : lol amory crate(no idea why I said crate at the end ) is a thing for asus I think it’s called armor station or armory? I know it lets you change between 2 set up’s or more (if you pay money ).

There are add-ons with names like AlphaGear or Dressing Room.

Also, there are 2 ways to use the armory system -- the armory station that you hopefully got for free, or armory assistants that cost crowns.

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

I wrote a big post above talking about the problems having the top end dps being extremely high (while nerfing the middle and low end).

From what I understand, the average dps in this game is roughly somewhere between 15-25k (before this nerf). This was hinted at with the introduction of companions, when the developers stated they did not want the companion dps to be higher than the average player’s.

So just think about what that means. The top dps, doing five to six times the average players dps.

Not twice or three times the average, but five to six times the average.

And in eso, where gear is kind of accessible, it means a lot of this difference falls upon the combat system itself.

Does that sound healthy for any game? If I was developing content for this game, I would not know where to begin.
How do I balance something “difficult”, twice the average dps? But the high end will destroy it.
80% of high end dps? Still too easy for them but how many people are going to see it anyway.

You have to create an accessible vet level, then a full throttle hard mode? Do we need to add layers in between now? That’s crazy.

I mean you don’t even need that because the majority of us playing these builds aren’t even doing the hard end game content.

The hardest for us is DLC dungeons on normal or vet non dlc. But after this nerf forget dlc dungeons I won’t be able to do those anymore at least not as a dps. So it’s just forcing me into changing my build up or making a new character and go as a healer.

If you aren't doing vet trials, and even if you are, the nerf won't stop you from being able to do them. Again, this is one of the smallest nerfs ZOS has ever put out (the nerf to empower) and changing gear sets is standard practice for every single player who does end game content (regarding the nerf to storm master). If you do anything less demanding than that content, it comes down to your mentality holding you back, not this nerf, dungeons depend a lot more on paying attention to things, and while high dps is needed from time to time, ultimates exist for a reason. Nothing is forcing you to play a healer, and if you want to participate in the highest tier of content, changing your build from patch to patch is the norm that everyone else deals with every patch, but for everything under that top tier of content, the damage loss won't kill you, this doom and gloom will.

There is no “doom and gloom” and I don’t want to be in the “highest tier” in already a very low dps player. I was hitting 15-18 k dps before using ha builds. Sucking wind. I have hand issues.

This build allows me to hit 30k and get though dlc dungeons I wasn’t able to before. The loss of dps has a major affect on the low end. Yes if your dps is 100k of course a small loss won’t matter. But when your dps is 27-30 k max of course any loss is going to set you back especially when you spent so much time upgrading gear for it a month later to be nerfed.

And once again there is no “doom and gloom” it’s being realistic. I can’t dps a normal build due to hand issues it’s not possible. This build is not something people want it’s clear the direction the combat is going and soon I will not be viable anymore with this build and people resent it. Why would I want to continue to play with others so resent how I play?

I’d rather switch roles and play the way I want (heavy attack ) solo … but with the dps loss it may not even be worth it solo.

I’ll definitely come back with results after it goes live I’ll make some records to show the loss. From tests I’ve seen it’s a massive hit to the low end.

Being realistic: If 100% of your damage comes form heavy attacks, and Empower is your only percentage buff to heavy attack damage, you are looking at a just under a 6% damage nerf. If you are wearing Oakensoul, using the weapons expert champion point node, those things dilute that nerf quite heavily, and if you use any abilities, like sorc pets or ground aoe's, and if you have enchantments doing damage on top of that, that 6% becomes even smaller. So, fact of the matter is, the empower nerf is barely on the table, if that nerf breaks your ability to do content, you have plenty of room to grow beyond what you were doing before.

Now Storm Master did get nerfed as well, but there are so many sets in the game to pick as alternatives, many from base zones, or are craftable, or are otherwise available from dungeons which means that, with the sticker book, you'll eventually get any piece you need no matter what. So let's spin the wheel over the hundreds of sets in ESO to find some alternatives that can work in most pieces of content aside from endgame trials.

You can use sets like Redmountain or Unfathomable Darkness, sets that drop form overland and just 'deal damage when you deal damage,' if you wanted to craft something you could use something like Torug's Pact, Oblivion's Foe, Red Eagle's Fury, New Moon Acolyte, Morkuldin, Coldharbour's Favorite, for just some sets that easily do damage or buff your damage output. Note that Red Eagle and New Moon Acolyte add bonus damage stats at the cost of making your skills cost more, but remember, heavy attack builds don't have sustain issues, you're heavy attacking all the time so the increased skill cost are nothing for those builds to deal with. Because, if you are at the 'low end,' you don't have as big of a need for raw damage, and there are so many more options open to you because of that, and if you are trying to push into higher end content, it is common for everyone there to have to swap gear between patches, and changing one base game dungeon set for another is very minor compared to what is normally required.

I’m wearing weapons expert I think it’s called
Which adds additional power to heavy attacks.
Sure I can swap gear but it will just get complained about once I switch and also nerfed. I’d rather just change roles and avoid all this non-sense all together at this point.

If you're on the PC, there are many ways to swap gear around quickly.

How do you do that other than armory crate ?

Edit : lol amory crate(no idea why I said crate at the end ) is a thing for asus I think it’s called armor station or armory? I know it lets you change between 2 set up’s or more (if you pay money ).

There are add-ons with names like AlphaGear or Dressing Room.

Also, there are 2 ways to use the armory system -- the armory station that you hopefully got for free, or armory assistants that cost crowns.

Ah ok yeah I got the armory station for free.
I didn’t know there was an assistant I’ll have to look into that … do you know how expensive that one is ?

As for the add ons how does that work? I just recently as of the last 4 days started messing with ad ons i found some really nice ones that make some quality of life changes.

The price of something in crowns can be found in the crown store.

For add-ons, check out:
The website https://www.esoui.com/addons.php to learn about add-on choices.

The website https://minion.mmoui.com/ to get the tool -- "Minion" -- most people use to manage add-ons.

One tip: Once you have downloaded add-ons you like, go to controls/keybindings to make it easier to launch the ones that indeed need active launching. I use my number keys 7-0 to launch Combat Metrics, AlphaGear (but Dressing Room seems to be updated more recently), WPamA (which does a lot of useful things if you have a bunch of alts), and the cross-character inventory checker I use.

Right I’m just asking how the add ons work. And if you happened to know the price of the assistant off hand (I assume you don’t as per your response ).

I’m just asking how the dressing room works and what exactly makes it different from the Armor station.. not how to install them.

The dressing room class of add-ons lets you change gear whenever you want, as long as the new gear is in your inventory or you are talking to a banker (in a bank or in the form a banking assistant as the case may be). You can also change your active skills (but not the morphs). And you can do this anywhere you are -- dungeons, Cyrodiil, whatever. (Of course, you can't change any skills or gear during combat.)

So: Less powerful than the armory, but more portable. And you can have a vast number of different builds saved, if you choose.

As for how to install them -- Minion handles the downloading and updating of add-ons.

I already stated prior I started using ad ons so no need to explain how to install them I got that covered already.

aaisoaho · May 2023

isadoraisacat wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

I wrote a big post above talking about the problems having the top end dps being extremely high (while nerfing the middle and low end).

From what I understand, the average dps in this game is roughly somewhere between 15-25k (before this nerf). This was hinted at with the introduction of companions, when the developers stated they did not want the companion dps to be higher than the average player’s.

So just think about what that means. The top dps, doing five to six times the average players dps.

Not twice or three times the average, but five to six times the average.

And in eso, where gear is kind of accessible, it means a lot of this difference falls upon the combat system itself.

Does that sound healthy for any game? If I was developing content for this game, I would not know where to begin.
How do I balance something “difficult”, twice the average dps? But the high end will destroy it.
80% of high end dps? Still too easy for them but how many people are going to see it anyway.

You have to create an accessible vet level, then a full throttle hard mode? Do we need to add layers in between now? That’s crazy.

I mean you don’t even need that because the majority of us playing these builds aren’t even doing the hard end game content.

The hardest for us is DLC dungeons on normal or vet non dlc. But after this nerf forget dlc dungeons I won’t be able to do those anymore at least not as a dps. So it’s just forcing me into changing my build up or making a new character and go as a healer.

If you aren't doing vet trials, and even if you are, the nerf won't stop you from being able to do them. Again, this is one of the smallest nerfs ZOS has ever put out (the nerf to empower) and changing gear sets is standard practice for every single player who does end game content (regarding the nerf to storm master). If you do anything less demanding than that content, it comes down to your mentality holding you back, not this nerf, dungeons depend a lot more on paying attention to things, and while high dps is needed from time to time, ultimates exist for a reason. Nothing is forcing you to play a healer, and if you want to participate in the highest tier of content, changing your build from patch to patch is the norm that everyone else deals with every patch, but for everything under that top tier of content, the damage loss won't kill you, this doom and gloom will.

There is no “doom and gloom” and I don’t want to be in the “highest tier” in already a very low dps player. I was hitting 15-18 k dps before using ha builds. Sucking wind. I have hand issues.

This build allows me to hit 30k and get though dlc dungeons I wasn’t able to before. The loss of dps has a major affect on the low end. Yes if your dps is 100k of course a small loss won’t matter. But when your dps is 27-30 k max of course any loss is going to set you back especially when you spent so much time upgrading gear for it a month later to be nerfed.

And once again there is no “doom and gloom” it’s being realistic. I can’t dps a normal build due to hand issues it’s not possible. This build is not something people want it’s clear the direction the combat is going and soon I will not be viable anymore with this build and people resent it. Why would I want to continue to play with others so resent how I play?

I’d rather switch roles and play the way I want (heavy attack ) solo … but with the dps loss it may not even be worth it solo.

I’ll definitely come back with results after it goes live I’ll make some records to show the loss. From tests I’ve seen it’s a massive hit to the low end.

Being realistic: If 100% of your damage comes form heavy attacks, and Empower is your only percentage buff to heavy attack damage, you are looking at a just under a 6% damage nerf. If you are wearing Oakensoul, using the weapons expert champion point node, those things dilute that nerf quite heavily, and if you use any abilities, like sorc pets or ground aoe's, and if you have enchantments doing damage on top of that, that 6% becomes even smaller. So, fact of the matter is, the empower nerf is barely on the table, if that nerf breaks your ability to do content, you have plenty of room to grow beyond what you were doing before.

Now Storm Master did get nerfed as well, but there are so many sets in the game to pick as alternatives, many from base zones, or are craftable, or are otherwise available from dungeons which means that, with the sticker book, you'll eventually get any piece you need no matter what. So let's spin the wheel over the hundreds of sets in ESO to find some alternatives that can work in most pieces of content aside from endgame trials.

You can use sets like Redmountain or Unfathomable Darkness, sets that drop form overland and just 'deal damage when you deal damage,' if you wanted to craft something you could use something like Torug's Pact, Oblivion's Foe, Red Eagle's Fury, New Moon Acolyte, Morkuldin, Coldharbour's Favorite, for just some sets that easily do damage or buff your damage output. Note that Red Eagle and New Moon Acolyte add bonus damage stats at the cost of making your skills cost more, but remember, heavy attack builds don't have sustain issues, you're heavy attacking all the time so the increased skill cost are nothing for those builds to deal with. Because, if you are at the 'low end,' you don't have as big of a need for raw damage, and there are so many more options open to you because of that, and if you are trying to push into higher end content, it is common for everyone there to have to swap gear between patches, and changing one base game dungeon set for another is very minor compared to what is normally required.

I’m wearing weapons expert I think it’s called
Which adds additional power to heavy attacks.
Sure I can swap gear but it will just get complained about once I switch and also nerfed. I’d rather just change roles and avoid all this non-sense all together at this point.

If you're on the PC, there are many ways to swap gear around quickly.

How do you do that other than armory crate ?

Edit : lol amory crate(no idea why I said crate at the end ) is a thing for asus I think it’s called armor station or armory? I know it lets you change between 2 set up’s or more (if you pay money ).

There are add-ons with names like AlphaGear or Dressing Room.

Also, there are 2 ways to use the armory system -- the armory station that you hopefully got for free, or armory assistants that cost crowns.

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

I wrote a big post above talking about the problems having the top end dps being extremely high (while nerfing the middle and low end).

From what I understand, the average dps in this game is roughly somewhere between 15-25k (before this nerf). This was hinted at with the introduction of companions, when the developers stated they did not want the companion dps to be higher than the average player’s.

So just think about what that means. The top dps, doing five to six times the average players dps.

Not twice or three times the average, but five to six times the average.

And in eso, where gear is kind of accessible, it means a lot of this difference falls upon the combat system itself.

Does that sound healthy for any game? If I was developing content for this game, I would not know where to begin.
How do I balance something “difficult”, twice the average dps? But the high end will destroy it.
80% of high end dps? Still too easy for them but how many people are going to see it anyway.

You have to create an accessible vet level, then a full throttle hard mode? Do we need to add layers in between now? That’s crazy.

I mean you don’t even need that because the majority of us playing these builds aren’t even doing the hard end game content.

The hardest for us is DLC dungeons on normal or vet non dlc. But after this nerf forget dlc dungeons I won’t be able to do those anymore at least not as a dps. So it’s just forcing me into changing my build up or making a new character and go as a healer.

If you aren't doing vet trials, and even if you are, the nerf won't stop you from being able to do them. Again, this is one of the smallest nerfs ZOS has ever put out (the nerf to empower) and changing gear sets is standard practice for every single player who does end game content (regarding the nerf to storm master). If you do anything less demanding than that content, it comes down to your mentality holding you back, not this nerf, dungeons depend a lot more on paying attention to things, and while high dps is needed from time to time, ultimates exist for a reason. Nothing is forcing you to play a healer, and if you want to participate in the highest tier of content, changing your build from patch to patch is the norm that everyone else deals with every patch, but for everything under that top tier of content, the damage loss won't kill you, this doom and gloom will.

There is no “doom and gloom” and I don’t want to be in the “highest tier” in already a very low dps player. I was hitting 15-18 k dps before using ha builds. Sucking wind. I have hand issues.

This build allows me to hit 30k and get though dlc dungeons I wasn’t able to before. The loss of dps has a major affect on the low end. Yes if your dps is 100k of course a small loss won’t matter. But when your dps is 27-30 k max of course any loss is going to set you back especially when you spent so much time upgrading gear for it a month later to be nerfed.

And once again there is no “doom and gloom” it’s being realistic. I can’t dps a normal build due to hand issues it’s not possible. This build is not something people want it’s clear the direction the combat is going and soon I will not be viable anymore with this build and people resent it. Why would I want to continue to play with others so resent how I play?

I’d rather switch roles and play the way I want (heavy attack ) solo … but with the dps loss it may not even be worth it solo.

I’ll definitely come back with results after it goes live I’ll make some records to show the loss. From tests I’ve seen it’s a massive hit to the low end.

Being realistic: If 100% of your damage comes form heavy attacks, and Empower is your only percentage buff to heavy attack damage, you are looking at a just under a 6% damage nerf. If you are wearing Oakensoul, using the weapons expert champion point node, those things dilute that nerf quite heavily, and if you use any abilities, like sorc pets or ground aoe's, and if you have enchantments doing damage on top of that, that 6% becomes even smaller. So, fact of the matter is, the empower nerf is barely on the table, if that nerf breaks your ability to do content, you have plenty of room to grow beyond what you were doing before.

Now Storm Master did get nerfed as well, but there are so many sets in the game to pick as alternatives, many from base zones, or are craftable, or are otherwise available from dungeons which means that, with the sticker book, you'll eventually get any piece you need no matter what. So let's spin the wheel over the hundreds of sets in ESO to find some alternatives that can work in most pieces of content aside from endgame trials.

You can use sets like Redmountain or Unfathomable Darkness, sets that drop form overland and just 'deal damage when you deal damage,' if you wanted to craft something you could use something like Torug's Pact, Oblivion's Foe, Red Eagle's Fury, New Moon Acolyte, Morkuldin, Coldharbour's Favorite, for just some sets that easily do damage or buff your damage output. Note that Red Eagle and New Moon Acolyte add bonus damage stats at the cost of making your skills cost more, but remember, heavy attack builds don't have sustain issues, you're heavy attacking all the time so the increased skill cost are nothing for those builds to deal with. Because, if you are at the 'low end,' you don't have as big of a need for raw damage, and there are so many more options open to you because of that, and if you are trying to push into higher end content, it is common for everyone there to have to swap gear between patches, and changing one base game dungeon set for another is very minor compared to what is normally required.

I’m wearing weapons expert I think it’s called
Which adds additional power to heavy attacks.
Sure I can swap gear but it will just get complained about once I switch and also nerfed. I’d rather just change roles and avoid all this non-sense all together at this point.

If you're on the PC, there are many ways to swap gear around quickly.

How do you do that other than armory crate ?

Edit : lol amory crate(no idea why I said crate at the end ) is a thing for asus I think it’s called armor station or armory? I know it lets you change between 2 set up’s or more (if you pay money ).

There are add-ons with names like AlphaGear or Dressing Room.

Also, there are 2 ways to use the armory system -- the armory station that you hopefully got for free, or armory assistants that cost crowns.

Ah ok yeah I got the armory station for free.
I didn’t know there was an assistant I’ll have to look into that … do you know how expensive that one is ?

As for the add ons how does that work? I just recently as of the last 4 days started messing with ad ons i found some really nice ones that make some quality of life changes.

The price of something in crowns can be found in the crown store.

For add-ons, check out:
The website https://www.esoui.com/addons.php to learn about add-on choices.

The website https://minion.mmoui.com/ to get the tool -- "Minion" -- most people use to manage add-ons.

One tip: Once you have downloaded add-ons you like, go to controls/keybindings to make it easier to launch the ones that indeed need active launching. I use my number keys 7-0 to launch Combat Metrics, AlphaGear (but Dressing Room seems to be updated more recently), WPamA (which does a lot of useful things if you have a bunch of alts), and the cross-character inventory checker I use.

Right I’m just asking how the add ons work. And if you happened to know the price of the assistant off hand (I assume you don’t as per your response ).

I’m just asking how the dressing room works and what exactly makes it different from the Armor station.. not how to install them.

The dressing room class of add-ons lets you change gear whenever you want, as long as the new gear is in your inventory or you are talking to a banker (in a bank or in the form a banking assistant as the case may be). You can also change your active skills (but not the morphs). And you can do this anywhere you are -- dungeons, Cyrodiil, whatever. (Of course, you can't change any skills or gear during combat.)

So: Less powerful than the armory, but more portable. And you can have a vast number of different builds saved, if you choose.

As for how to install them -- Minion handles the downloading and updating of add-ons.

Gotcha I plan on 2 builds.
1. My current HA solo build
2. Healer build for group dungeons

Since I will
Be changing cp passives and champion bar stuff I prob would stick to the armor station and just change my set up prior to doing A Dungeon than change back when I’m done to do my solo questing usual stuff.

Unless this thing changes your cp stuff it wouldn’t be all that useful for what I’m planning to do.

Wizard's Wardrobe can swap your active CP stars when swapping builds. It does require you to unlock all the CP stars your saved builds use, I do not think it can assign and reassign the points for you.

isadoraisacat · May 2023

aaisoaho wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

I wrote a big post above talking about the problems having the top end dps being extremely high (while nerfing the middle and low end).

From what I understand, the average dps in this game is roughly somewhere between 15-25k (before this nerf). This was hinted at with the introduction of companions, when the developers stated they did not want the companion dps to be higher than the average player’s.

So just think about what that means. The top dps, doing five to six times the average players dps.

Not twice or three times the average, but five to six times the average.

And in eso, where gear is kind of accessible, it means a lot of this difference falls upon the combat system itself.

Does that sound healthy for any game? If I was developing content for this game, I would not know where to begin.
How do I balance something “difficult”, twice the average dps? But the high end will destroy it.
80% of high end dps? Still too easy for them but how many people are going to see it anyway.

You have to create an accessible vet level, then a full throttle hard mode? Do we need to add layers in between now? That’s crazy.

I mean you don’t even need that because the majority of us playing these builds aren’t even doing the hard end game content.

The hardest for us is DLC dungeons on normal or vet non dlc. But after this nerf forget dlc dungeons I won’t be able to do those anymore at least not as a dps. So it’s just forcing me into changing my build up or making a new character and go as a healer.

If you aren't doing vet trials, and even if you are, the nerf won't stop you from being able to do them. Again, this is one of the smallest nerfs ZOS has ever put out (the nerf to empower) and changing gear sets is standard practice for every single player who does end game content (regarding the nerf to storm master). If you do anything less demanding than that content, it comes down to your mentality holding you back, not this nerf, dungeons depend a lot more on paying attention to things, and while high dps is needed from time to time, ultimates exist for a reason. Nothing is forcing you to play a healer, and if you want to participate in the highest tier of content, changing your build from patch to patch is the norm that everyone else deals with every patch, but for everything under that top tier of content, the damage loss won't kill you, this doom and gloom will.

There is no “doom and gloom” and I don’t want to be in the “highest tier” in already a very low dps player. I was hitting 15-18 k dps before using ha builds. Sucking wind. I have hand issues.

This build allows me to hit 30k and get though dlc dungeons I wasn’t able to before. The loss of dps has a major affect on the low end. Yes if your dps is 100k of course a small loss won’t matter. But when your dps is 27-30 k max of course any loss is going to set you back especially when you spent so much time upgrading gear for it a month later to be nerfed.

And once again there is no “doom and gloom” it’s being realistic. I can’t dps a normal build due to hand issues it’s not possible. This build is not something people want it’s clear the direction the combat is going and soon I will not be viable anymore with this build and people resent it. Why would I want to continue to play with others so resent how I play?

I’d rather switch roles and play the way I want (heavy attack ) solo … but with the dps loss it may not even be worth it solo.

I’ll definitely come back with results after it goes live I’ll make some records to show the loss. From tests I’ve seen it’s a massive hit to the low end.

Being realistic: If 100% of your damage comes form heavy attacks, and Empower is your only percentage buff to heavy attack damage, you are looking at a just under a 6% damage nerf. If you are wearing Oakensoul, using the weapons expert champion point node, those things dilute that nerf quite heavily, and if you use any abilities, like sorc pets or ground aoe's, and if you have enchantments doing damage on top of that, that 6% becomes even smaller. So, fact of the matter is, the empower nerf is barely on the table, if that nerf breaks your ability to do content, you have plenty of room to grow beyond what you were doing before.

Now Storm Master did get nerfed as well, but there are so many sets in the game to pick as alternatives, many from base zones, or are craftable, or are otherwise available from dungeons which means that, with the sticker book, you'll eventually get any piece you need no matter what. So let's spin the wheel over the hundreds of sets in ESO to find some alternatives that can work in most pieces of content aside from endgame trials.

You can use sets like Redmountain or Unfathomable Darkness, sets that drop form overland and just 'deal damage when you deal damage,' if you wanted to craft something you could use something like Torug's Pact, Oblivion's Foe, Red Eagle's Fury, New Moon Acolyte, Morkuldin, Coldharbour's Favorite, for just some sets that easily do damage or buff your damage output. Note that Red Eagle and New Moon Acolyte add bonus damage stats at the cost of making your skills cost more, but remember, heavy attack builds don't have sustain issues, you're heavy attacking all the time so the increased skill cost are nothing for those builds to deal with. Because, if you are at the 'low end,' you don't have as big of a need for raw damage, and there are so many more options open to you because of that, and if you are trying to push into higher end content, it is common for everyone there to have to swap gear between patches, and changing one base game dungeon set for another is very minor compared to what is normally required.

I’m wearing weapons expert I think it’s called
Which adds additional power to heavy attacks.
Sure I can swap gear but it will just get complained about once I switch and also nerfed. I’d rather just change roles and avoid all this non-sense all together at this point.

If you're on the PC, there are many ways to swap gear around quickly.

How do you do that other than armory crate ?

Edit : lol amory crate(no idea why I said crate at the end ) is a thing for asus I think it’s called armor station or armory? I know it lets you change between 2 set up’s or more (if you pay money ).

There are add-ons with names like AlphaGear or Dressing Room.

Also, there are 2 ways to use the armory system -- the armory station that you hopefully got for free, or armory assistants that cost crowns.

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

I wrote a big post above talking about the problems having the top end dps being extremely high (while nerfing the middle and low end).

From what I understand, the average dps in this game is roughly somewhere between 15-25k (before this nerf). This was hinted at with the introduction of companions, when the developers stated they did not want the companion dps to be higher than the average player’s.

So just think about what that means. The top dps, doing five to six times the average players dps.

Not twice or three times the average, but five to six times the average.

And in eso, where gear is kind of accessible, it means a lot of this difference falls upon the combat system itself.

Does that sound healthy for any game? If I was developing content for this game, I would not know where to begin.
How do I balance something “difficult”, twice the average dps? But the high end will destroy it.
80% of high end dps? Still too easy for them but how many people are going to see it anyway.

You have to create an accessible vet level, then a full throttle hard mode? Do we need to add layers in between now? That’s crazy.

I mean you don’t even need that because the majority of us playing these builds aren’t even doing the hard end game content.

The hardest for us is DLC dungeons on normal or vet non dlc. But after this nerf forget dlc dungeons I won’t be able to do those anymore at least not as a dps. So it’s just forcing me into changing my build up or making a new character and go as a healer.

If you aren't doing vet trials, and even if you are, the nerf won't stop you from being able to do them. Again, this is one of the smallest nerfs ZOS has ever put out (the nerf to empower) and changing gear sets is standard practice for every single player who does end game content (regarding the nerf to storm master). If you do anything less demanding than that content, it comes down to your mentality holding you back, not this nerf, dungeons depend a lot more on paying attention to things, and while high dps is needed from time to time, ultimates exist for a reason. Nothing is forcing you to play a healer, and if you want to participate in the highest tier of content, changing your build from patch to patch is the norm that everyone else deals with every patch, but for everything under that top tier of content, the damage loss won't kill you, this doom and gloom will.

There is no “doom and gloom” and I don’t want to be in the “highest tier” in already a very low dps player. I was hitting 15-18 k dps before using ha builds. Sucking wind. I have hand issues.

This build allows me to hit 30k and get though dlc dungeons I wasn’t able to before. The loss of dps has a major affect on the low end. Yes if your dps is 100k of course a small loss won’t matter. But when your dps is 27-30 k max of course any loss is going to set you back especially when you spent so much time upgrading gear for it a month later to be nerfed.

And once again there is no “doom and gloom” it’s being realistic. I can’t dps a normal build due to hand issues it’s not possible. This build is not something people want it’s clear the direction the combat is going and soon I will not be viable anymore with this build and people resent it. Why would I want to continue to play with others so resent how I play?

I’d rather switch roles and play the way I want (heavy attack ) solo … but with the dps loss it may not even be worth it solo.

I’ll definitely come back with results after it goes live I’ll make some records to show the loss. From tests I’ve seen it’s a massive hit to the low end.

Being realistic: If 100% of your damage comes form heavy attacks, and Empower is your only percentage buff to heavy attack damage, you are looking at a just under a 6% damage nerf. If you are wearing Oakensoul, using the weapons expert champion point node, those things dilute that nerf quite heavily, and if you use any abilities, like sorc pets or ground aoe's, and if you have enchantments doing damage on top of that, that 6% becomes even smaller. So, fact of the matter is, the empower nerf is barely on the table, if that nerf breaks your ability to do content, you have plenty of room to grow beyond what you were doing before.

Now Storm Master did get nerfed as well, but there are so many sets in the game to pick as alternatives, many from base zones, or are craftable, or are otherwise available from dungeons which means that, with the sticker book, you'll eventually get any piece you need no matter what. So let's spin the wheel over the hundreds of sets in ESO to find some alternatives that can work in most pieces of content aside from endgame trials.

You can use sets like Redmountain or Unfathomable Darkness, sets that drop form overland and just 'deal damage when you deal damage,' if you wanted to craft something you could use something like Torug's Pact, Oblivion's Foe, Red Eagle's Fury, New Moon Acolyte, Morkuldin, Coldharbour's Favorite, for just some sets that easily do damage or buff your damage output. Note that Red Eagle and New Moon Acolyte add bonus damage stats at the cost of making your skills cost more, but remember, heavy attack builds don't have sustain issues, you're heavy attacking all the time so the increased skill cost are nothing for those builds to deal with. Because, if you are at the 'low end,' you don't have as big of a need for raw damage, and there are so many more options open to you because of that, and if you are trying to push into higher end content, it is common for everyone there to have to swap gear between patches, and changing one base game dungeon set for another is very minor compared to what is normally required.

I’m wearing weapons expert I think it’s called
Which adds additional power to heavy attacks.
Sure I can swap gear but it will just get complained about once I switch and also nerfed. I’d rather just change roles and avoid all this non-sense all together at this point.

If you're on the PC, there are many ways to swap gear around quickly.

How do you do that other than armory crate ?

Edit : lol amory crate(no idea why I said crate at the end ) is a thing for asus I think it’s called armor station or armory? I know it lets you change between 2 set up’s or more (if you pay money ).

There are add-ons with names like AlphaGear or Dressing Room.

Also, there are 2 ways to use the armory system -- the armory station that you hopefully got for free, or armory assistants that cost crowns.

Ah ok yeah I got the armory station for free.
I didn’t know there was an assistant I’ll have to look into that … do you know how expensive that one is ?

As for the add ons how does that work? I just recently as of the last 4 days started messing with ad ons i found some really nice ones that make some quality of life changes.

The price of something in crowns can be found in the crown store.

For add-ons, check out:
The website https://www.esoui.com/addons.php to learn about add-on choices.

The website https://minion.mmoui.com/ to get the tool -- "Minion" -- most people use to manage add-ons.

One tip: Once you have downloaded add-ons you like, go to controls/keybindings to make it easier to launch the ones that indeed need active launching. I use my number keys 7-0 to launch Combat Metrics, AlphaGear (but Dressing Room seems to be updated more recently), WPamA (which does a lot of useful things if you have a bunch of alts), and the cross-character inventory checker I use.

Right I’m just asking how the add ons work. And if you happened to know the price of the assistant off hand (I assume you don’t as per your response ).

I’m just asking how the dressing room works and what exactly makes it different from the Armor station.. not how to install them.

The dressing room class of add-ons lets you change gear whenever you want, as long as the new gear is in your inventory or you are talking to a banker (in a bank or in the form a banking assistant as the case may be). You can also change your active skills (but not the morphs). And you can do this anywhere you are -- dungeons, Cyrodiil, whatever. (Of course, you can't change any skills or gear during combat.)

So: Less powerful than the armory, but more portable. And you can have a vast number of different builds saved, if you choose.

As for how to install them -- Minion handles the downloading and updating of add-ons.

Gotcha I plan on 2 builds.
1. My current HA solo build
2. Healer build for group dungeons

Since I will
Be changing cp passives and champion bar stuff I prob would stick to the armor station and just change my set up prior to doing A Dungeon than change back when I’m done to do my solo questing usual stuff.

Unless this thing changes your cp stuff it wouldn’t be all that useful for what I’m planning to do.

Wizard's Wardrobe can swap your active CP stars when swapping builds. It does require you to unlock all the CP stars your saved builds use, I do not think it can assign and reassign the points for you.

Thanks for the info. That’s a long way out for me. I definitely don’t have them all unlocked but the bar ones I use are maxed out. But I don’t have the whole constellations unlocked.

FrancisCrawford · May 2023

isadoraisacat wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

I wrote a big post above talking about the problems having the top end dps being extremely high (while nerfing the middle and low end).

From what I understand, the average dps in this game is roughly somewhere between 15-25k (before this nerf). This was hinted at with the introduction of companions, when the developers stated they did not want the companion dps to be higher than the average player’s.

So just think about what that means. The top dps, doing five to six times the average players dps.

Not twice or three times the average, but five to six times the average.

And in eso, where gear is kind of accessible, it means a lot of this difference falls upon the combat system itself.

Does that sound healthy for any game? If I was developing content for this game, I would not know where to begin.
How do I balance something “difficult”, twice the average dps? But the high end will destroy it.
80% of high end dps? Still too easy for them but how many people are going to see it anyway.

You have to create an accessible vet level, then a full throttle hard mode? Do we need to add layers in between now? That’s crazy.

I mean you don’t even need that because the majority of us playing these builds aren’t even doing the hard end game content.

The hardest for us is DLC dungeons on normal or vet non dlc. But after this nerf forget dlc dungeons I won’t be able to do those anymore at least not as a dps. So it’s just forcing me into changing my build up or making a new character and go as a healer.

If you aren't doing vet trials, and even if you are, the nerf won't stop you from being able to do them. Again, this is one of the smallest nerfs ZOS has ever put out (the nerf to empower) and changing gear sets is standard practice for every single player who does end game content (regarding the nerf to storm master). If you do anything less demanding than that content, it comes down to your mentality holding you back, not this nerf, dungeons depend a lot more on paying attention to things, and while high dps is needed from time to time, ultimates exist for a reason. Nothing is forcing you to play a healer, and if you want to participate in the highest tier of content, changing your build from patch to patch is the norm that everyone else deals with every patch, but for everything under that top tier of content, the damage loss won't kill you, this doom and gloom will.

There is no “doom and gloom” and I don’t want to be in the “highest tier” in already a very low dps player. I was hitting 15-18 k dps before using ha builds. Sucking wind. I have hand issues.

This build allows me to hit 30k and get though dlc dungeons I wasn’t able to before. The loss of dps has a major affect on the low end. Yes if your dps is 100k of course a small loss won’t matter. But when your dps is 27-30 k max of course any loss is going to set you back especially when you spent so much time upgrading gear for it a month later to be nerfed.

And once again there is no “doom and gloom” it’s being realistic. I can’t dps a normal build due to hand issues it’s not possible. This build is not something people want it’s clear the direction the combat is going and soon I will not be viable anymore with this build and people resent it. Why would I want to continue to play with others so resent how I play?

I’d rather switch roles and play the way I want (heavy attack ) solo … but with the dps loss it may not even be worth it solo.

I’ll definitely come back with results after it goes live I’ll make some records to show the loss. From tests I’ve seen it’s a massive hit to the low end.

Being realistic: If 100% of your damage comes form heavy attacks, and Empower is your only percentage buff to heavy attack damage, you are looking at a just under a 6% damage nerf. If you are wearing Oakensoul, using the weapons expert champion point node, those things dilute that nerf quite heavily, and if you use any abilities, like sorc pets or ground aoe's, and if you have enchantments doing damage on top of that, that 6% becomes even smaller. So, fact of the matter is, the empower nerf is barely on the table, if that nerf breaks your ability to do content, you have plenty of room to grow beyond what you were doing before.

Now Storm Master did get nerfed as well, but there are so many sets in the game to pick as alternatives, many from base zones, or are craftable, or are otherwise available from dungeons which means that, with the sticker book, you'll eventually get any piece you need no matter what. So let's spin the wheel over the hundreds of sets in ESO to find some alternatives that can work in most pieces of content aside from endgame trials.

You can use sets like Redmountain or Unfathomable Darkness, sets that drop form overland and just 'deal damage when you deal damage,' if you wanted to craft something you could use something like Torug's Pact, Oblivion's Foe, Red Eagle's Fury, New Moon Acolyte, Morkuldin, Coldharbour's Favorite, for just some sets that easily do damage or buff your damage output. Note that Red Eagle and New Moon Acolyte add bonus damage stats at the cost of making your skills cost more, but remember, heavy attack builds don't have sustain issues, you're heavy attacking all the time so the increased skill cost are nothing for those builds to deal with. Because, if you are at the 'low end,' you don't have as big of a need for raw damage, and there are so many more options open to you because of that, and if you are trying to push into higher end content, it is common for everyone there to have to swap gear between patches, and changing one base game dungeon set for another is very minor compared to what is normally required.

I’m wearing weapons expert I think it’s called
Which adds additional power to heavy attacks.
Sure I can swap gear but it will just get complained about once I switch and also nerfed. I’d rather just change roles and avoid all this non-sense all together at this point.

If you're on the PC, there are many ways to swap gear around quickly.

How do you do that other than armory crate ?

Edit : lol amory crate(no idea why I said crate at the end ) is a thing for asus I think it’s called armor station or armory? I know it lets you change between 2 set up’s or more (if you pay money ).

There are add-ons with names like AlphaGear or Dressing Room.

Also, there are 2 ways to use the armory system -- the armory station that you hopefully got for free, or armory assistants that cost crowns.

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

I wrote a big post above talking about the problems having the top end dps being extremely high (while nerfing the middle and low end).

From what I understand, the average dps in this game is roughly somewhere between 15-25k (before this nerf). This was hinted at with the introduction of companions, when the developers stated they did not want the companion dps to be higher than the average player’s.

So just think about what that means. The top dps, doing five to six times the average players dps.

Not twice or three times the average, but five to six times the average.

And in eso, where gear is kind of accessible, it means a lot of this difference falls upon the combat system itself.

Does that sound healthy for any game? If I was developing content for this game, I would not know where to begin.
How do I balance something “difficult”, twice the average dps? But the high end will destroy it.
80% of high end dps? Still too easy for them but how many people are going to see it anyway.

You have to create an accessible vet level, then a full throttle hard mode? Do we need to add layers in between now? That’s crazy.

I mean you don’t even need that because the majority of us playing these builds aren’t even doing the hard end game content.

The hardest for us is DLC dungeons on normal or vet non dlc. But after this nerf forget dlc dungeons I won’t be able to do those anymore at least not as a dps. So it’s just forcing me into changing my build up or making a new character and go as a healer.

If you aren't doing vet trials, and even if you are, the nerf won't stop you from being able to do them. Again, this is one of the smallest nerfs ZOS has ever put out (the nerf to empower) and changing gear sets is standard practice for every single player who does end game content (regarding the nerf to storm master). If you do anything less demanding than that content, it comes down to your mentality holding you back, not this nerf, dungeons depend a lot more on paying attention to things, and while high dps is needed from time to time, ultimates exist for a reason. Nothing is forcing you to play a healer, and if you want to participate in the highest tier of content, changing your build from patch to patch is the norm that everyone else deals with every patch, but for everything under that top tier of content, the damage loss won't kill you, this doom and gloom will.

There is no “doom and gloom” and I don’t want to be in the “highest tier” in already a very low dps player. I was hitting 15-18 k dps before using ha builds. Sucking wind. I have hand issues.

This build allows me to hit 30k and get though dlc dungeons I wasn’t able to before. The loss of dps has a major affect on the low end. Yes if your dps is 100k of course a small loss won’t matter. But when your dps is 27-30 k max of course any loss is going to set you back especially when you spent so much time upgrading gear for it a month later to be nerfed.

And once again there is no “doom and gloom” it’s being realistic. I can’t dps a normal build due to hand issues it’s not possible. This build is not something people want it’s clear the direction the combat is going and soon I will not be viable anymore with this build and people resent it. Why would I want to continue to play with others so resent how I play?

I’d rather switch roles and play the way I want (heavy attack ) solo … but with the dps loss it may not even be worth it solo.

I’ll definitely come back with results after it goes live I’ll make some records to show the loss. From tests I’ve seen it’s a massive hit to the low end.

Being realistic: If 100% of your damage comes form heavy attacks, and Empower is your only percentage buff to heavy attack damage, you are looking at a just under a 6% damage nerf. If you are wearing Oakensoul, using the weapons expert champion point node, those things dilute that nerf quite heavily, and if you use any abilities, like sorc pets or ground aoe's, and if you have enchantments doing damage on top of that, that 6% becomes even smaller. So, fact of the matter is, the empower nerf is barely on the table, if that nerf breaks your ability to do content, you have plenty of room to grow beyond what you were doing before.

Now Storm Master did get nerfed as well, but there are so many sets in the game to pick as alternatives, many from base zones, or are craftable, or are otherwise available from dungeons which means that, with the sticker book, you'll eventually get any piece you need no matter what. So let's spin the wheel over the hundreds of sets in ESO to find some alternatives that can work in most pieces of content aside from endgame trials.

You can use sets like Redmountain or Unfathomable Darkness, sets that drop form overland and just 'deal damage when you deal damage,' if you wanted to craft something you could use something like Torug's Pact, Oblivion's Foe, Red Eagle's Fury, New Moon Acolyte, Morkuldin, Coldharbour's Favorite, for just some sets that easily do damage or buff your damage output. Note that Red Eagle and New Moon Acolyte add bonus damage stats at the cost of making your skills cost more, but remember, heavy attack builds don't have sustain issues, you're heavy attacking all the time so the increased skill cost are nothing for those builds to deal with. Because, if you are at the 'low end,' you don't have as big of a need for raw damage, and there are so many more options open to you because of that, and if you are trying to push into higher end content, it is common for everyone there to have to swap gear between patches, and changing one base game dungeon set for another is very minor compared to what is normally required.

I’m wearing weapons expert I think it’s called
Which adds additional power to heavy attacks.
Sure I can swap gear but it will just get complained about once I switch and also nerfed. I’d rather just change roles and avoid all this non-sense all together at this point.

If you're on the PC, there are many ways to swap gear around quickly.

How do you do that other than armory crate ?

Edit : lol amory crate(no idea why I said crate at the end ) is a thing for asus I think it’s called armor station or armory? I know it lets you change between 2 set up’s or more (if you pay money ).

There are add-ons with names like AlphaGear or Dressing Room.

Also, there are 2 ways to use the armory system -- the armory station that you hopefully got for free, or armory assistants that cost crowns.

Ah ok yeah I got the armory station for free.
I didn’t know there was an assistant I’ll have to look into that … do you know how expensive that one is ?

As for the add ons how does that work? I just recently as of the last 4 days started messing with ad ons i found some really nice ones that make some quality of life changes.

The price of something in crowns can be found in the crown store.

For add-ons, check out:
The website https://www.esoui.com/addons.php to learn about add-on choices.

The website https://minion.mmoui.com/ to get the tool -- "Minion" -- most people use to manage add-ons.

One tip: Once you have downloaded add-ons you like, go to controls/keybindings to make it easier to launch the ones that indeed need active launching. I use my number keys 7-0 to launch Combat Metrics, AlphaGear (but Dressing Room seems to be updated more recently), WPamA (which does a lot of useful things if you have a bunch of alts), and the cross-character inventory checker I use.

Right I’m just asking how the add ons work. And if you happened to know the price of the assistant off hand (I assume you don’t as per your response ).

I’m just asking how the dressing room works and what exactly makes it different from the Armor station.. not how to install them.

The dressing room class of add-ons lets you change gear whenever you want, as long as the new gear is in your inventory or you are talking to a banker (in a bank or in the form a banking assistant as the case may be). You can also change your active skills (but not the morphs). And you can do this anywhere you are -- dungeons, Cyrodiil, whatever. (Of course, you can't change any skills or gear during combat.)

So: Less powerful than the armory, but more portable. And you can have a vast number of different builds saved, if you choose.

As for how to install them -- Minion handles the downloading and updating of add-ons.

I already stated prior I started using ad ons so no need to explain how to install them I got that covered already.

I'm sorry for wasting your time with an explanation. I'll try not to do it again.

Ragnarok0130 · May 2023

isadoraisacat wrote: »

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

peacenote wrote: »

I had a random thought about this topic the other day.

During the U35 update, many people were demonizing high DPS builds, saying the ceiling needed to be lowered, weaving needed to be removed, etc, etc, because damage was out of control, "unfair," the root of all the game's problems, etc.

I bet that some of those folks are now using the HA build that pumps out numbers, and is now being nerfed, and they don't like it.

That's some irony right there.

What if... EVERYONE stopped spreading negativity about people who can push out good damage, regardless of how they do it??!? Maybe we wouldn't see so many nerf bats if the community could just look at the high damage numbers and say "nice job."

The truth of the matter is, clears require a certain level of group DPS. The more people that can pull a fair amount over 100k, the more room there is for a few people that can't.

But this all started by people whining that it was unfair how much damage people who practiced their light attacks and knew the game really well could do. Has anyone learned their lesson?

To be clear, I am not in favor of the HA build nerf. But I also thought it was ridiculous that people thought the "ceiling" should be lowered by reducing damage from LA builds. The worst thing for accessibility is reducing the amount of damage people can do without adjusting the content. If you take away the drama about HA builds specifically, this is just ZOS doing this exact thing, again.

I've made many of the same points about those who cheered the nerfs to the end game in U35 suddenly not liking it when its applied to them once they're in the end game in another thread. The irony is that Oaknsorc/HA hasn't just become an alternative for players new to the end game to acclimate it's become the META in many scenarios of the end game even outside of vAS and we all know what happens to metas when ZoS notices...adjustments. I ran a PUG vRG on Friday and 100% of the DPS were HA Sorcs (I am an Oakensorc here testing someone's claim about being kicked from normal and veteran dungeons and trials - spoiler I've not been kicked once nor had even one negative interaction). The content seemed trivial compared to a normal comp run and I even got a new high score for vRG. It's apparent why ZoS is adjusting this type of build after running it for a week in group content.

edited for spelling

I’ll have to upload some game footage. I recorded a few games just gotta get them hosted. Playing with my heavy attack build. I played with a lot of different builds who weren’t HA. And that was me who said I was booted from the vet Dungeon with my heavy attack build and was called “terrible” and “awful” it actually happened to me, with this build clearly my dps sucks it’s max 30k and testing in cmx I actually hit maybe 14k towards a boss in a real game. This build only can perform as good as the player. Skilled players can do good with it but they still put perform these builds with 2 bar.

All this is doing is taking from the low end.

You can take 10 % from a millionaire and it’s nothing to them. You take 10 % from a man below the poverty line and they are beyond sucking wind.

That is not balance to me.

I didn't say it was you, it was the other guy making loads of new threads on the topic stating he was getting kicked for merely using the build in group content. That being said I also haven't had a single negative interaction running this build as you said you did and I'm running all sorts of groups from pre-made guild groups to outright random PUGs in both normal and veteran dungeons and trials which leads me to believe any negative interactions had were "one offs" or based on other factors outside of the build. I've been testing for a week straight too so I didn't queue for a only single dungeon and say I'm done. The fact that this was vRG is also notable as vAS is the meta trial for HA builds.

I'm a trial healer main and have never parsed once as a DPS before doing this HA build so I'm really in the same place as you and am not certainly one of those über 1337 DPS types and see there's a problem with performance vs effort that the devs called out in their patch notes. I don't want these builds removed from end game but they need to be balanced against other areas of the end game for it to remain healthy.