Storm Master proc window has been excessively narrowed down

ApoAlaia

If the aim was to remove the use of the set altogether then the new values are appropriate. It is highly unlikely that anyone will run this set with 50% uptime.

If the aim was to make it more challenging to reach 100% uptime then the the reduction is excessive.

Outside highly organised groups - which are unlikely to welcome a HA build - players just do not have the crit chance required to consistently land a 2.1s heavy attack crit every 3s window.

Expanding the window to 5s may still allow to retain some of the usefulness of the set, as it is right now is dead.

calitrumanb14_ESO

Really. Just leave the darned thing alone. I can only imagine the number of gold mats used overall to upgrade this set.

acastanza_ESO

I'll freely admit it needed a small nerf, it was by far the strongest option for a second heavy attack set in high end groups, but I agree, the new uptime is really bad. The nerf needs to be dialed back a bit.

BaalMelqartu

Well... I just finished putting most of my DPS in Storm Master. Now begins the process of getting them all back into Noble Duelist. It's annoying but it's what I have come to expect. Use up all trans crystals when sets are changed, spend forever replacing trans crystals, new sets nerfed, back to using up all trans crystals, etc. etc. Then there is the gold mats... *twitch*

acastanza_ESO

BaalMelqartu wrote: »

Well... I just finished putting most of my DPS in Storm Master. Now begins the process of getting them all back into Noble Duelist. It's annoying but it's what I have come to expect. Use up all trans crystals when sets are changed, spend forever replacing trans crystals, new sets nerfed, back to using up all trans crystals, etc. etc. Then there is the gold mats... *twitch*

That's why you never gold out anything except weapons except maybe at the very beginning of a patch.

bachpain

No, this is why you don't invest into ESO beyond 2022. They clearly have no clue where they want to go in their vision of the game and are willing to grind everyone into the ground in finding themselves. Every time a "non standard" playstyle gains traction and becomes FUN and effective to the point where there is sufficient reason to invest in it to have said fun, they decide it isn't good for the game and nerf it into oblivion.

They did it with shield stack builds, they did it with bash builds, now the HA builds. They clearly have no idea what they want from patch to patch. In one breath they vaunt the benefits and pat themselves on the back for giving us the tools to play the way we want, then when we do they pull the rug out from under us. FWIW I personally don't really give a care, I have already decided not to preorder this next chapter for the first time in forever for this very reason.

ESO is the only MMO/RPG in the world that I know of that literally does 180* changes in their combat functionality routinely. It is getting sickening, and I don't think the community is going to last a whole lot longer. How can anyone invest in a MMO that you can almost guarantee that what you are investing in today won't even work in a patch. It isn't about progression, there is no progression only chunks being replaced with other clunks that don't seem to fit with any reason.

I hope these drastic changes don't make it to live for the good of the game and community. A 10% empower buff is one thing that I wouldn't even argue about a whole lot, but gutting the Storm Master set as well--These new sets that want you to stand still--A mythic that erases light and heavy attacks altogether-- Have they even considered a direction that they want combat to take?

Billium813

• Storm Master:
  • This set’s bonus damage with Light and Heavy Attacks now only works against monsters.
  • Reduced the duration of the bonus to 8 seconds, down from 20 seconds.
  • Reduced the cooldown to 5 seconds, down from 10.

@ZOS why... WHY reduce the proc window from 10 seconds down to only 3 seconds!? All this does it nerf Storm Master for EVERY weapon OTHER THAN Lightning Staff which has NO issue procing this within 3 seconds thanks to all the channel hits. They must have only tested this on Lightning Staff, it's the only thing that makes sense.

I mean, the issue wasn't Storm Master anyway... so this hardly matters... but the solution they came up with so ... inaccurate too! They picked the wrong set, AND they made a change that is totally bizarre. Just remove Lightning Staff channel damage from procing HA sets or getting buffed from HA sets and your job is done. Just do that. Please.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/629658/comparing-heavy-attacks

FrancisCrawford

Billium813 wrote: »

• Storm Master:
  • This set’s bonus damage with Light and Heavy Attacks now only works against monsters.
  • Reduced the duration of the bonus to 8 seconds, down from 20 seconds.
  • Reduced the cooldown to 5 seconds, down from 10.

@ZOS why... WHY reduce the proc window from 10 seconds down to only 3 seconds!? All this does it nerf Storm Master for EVERY weapon OTHER THAN Lightning Staff which has NO issue procing this within 3 seconds thanks to all the channel hits. They must have only tested this on Lightning Staff, it's the only thing that makes sense.

I mean, the issue wasn't Storm Master anyway... so this hardly matters... but the solution they came up with so ... inaccurate too! They picked the wrong set, AND they made a change that is totally bizarre. Just remove Lightning Staff channel damage from procing HA sets or getting buffed from HA sets and your job is done. Just do that. Please.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/629658/comparing-heavy-attacks

Huh? The tooltip says you need to crit on a FULLY CHARGED heavy attack. So you should only be getting one try at the crit per heavy attack.

ssewallb14_ESO

I'm averaging around 85% uptime on an Oakensorc. I'm seeing similar numbers on the raid dummy to Infiltrator and Relequen. So tbh I'd rather run Infiltrator in a pen capped group as I'm getting the same damage and a nice 2k max stam for core mechanics.

But I know stuff is broken right now, so grain of salt I guess.

auz

Great change for pvp.

SirLeeMinion

bachpain wrote: »

No, this is why you don't invest into ESO beyond 2022. ...

Agreed.

bachpain wrote: »

ESO is the only MMO/RPG in the world that I know of that literally does 180* changes in their combat functionality routinely. ... Have they even considered a direction that they want combat to take?

At this point, you have to conclude that this IS the vision for combat. Perhaps something along the lines of, "see what a significant number of people are using, then nerf it." Stir in a bit of, "Temporarily buff some set or item to sell the chapter," and you have the complete recipe.

Runefang

BaalMelqartu wrote: »

Well... I just finished putting most of my DPS in Storm Master. Now begins the process of getting them all back into Noble Duelist. It's annoying but it's what I have come to expect. Use up all trans crystals when sets are changed, spend forever replacing trans crystals, new sets nerfed, back to using up all trans crystals, etc. etc. Then there is the gold mats... *twitch*

To be fair, any set that is so strong you want it on every character is guaranteed to be nerfed. Clearly something is wrong there. Its a risky prospect, you don't know how many patches you're going to get out of it.

katorga

Umm, not one of the heavy attack sets matter for pvp.

The fact that you can target an NPC and have nearby players receive full PVE-level splash damage from Tri-focus passive is where the damage comes from.

Is this a problem? Maybe in IC, but in Cyro, it is limited and situational. In BGs and duals, can't even happen.

Besides, a heavy attack build in pvp is around 150% weaker than a basic DK build. It is a bottom quartile build you run in a zerg when you want the rest of the players to carry you.

auz

katorga wrote: »

Umm, not one of the heavy attack sets matter for pvp.

The fact that you can target an NPC and have nearby players receive full PVE-level splash damage from Tri-focus passive is where the damage comes from.

Is this a problem? Maybe in IC, but in Cyro, it is limited and situational. In BGs and duals, can't even happen.

Besides, a heavy attack build in pvp is around 150% weaker than a basic DK build. It is a bottom quartile build you run in a zerg when you want the rest of the players to carry you.

Have you been in pvp lately? No disagreement on the people running HA builds, but they are everywhere. Usually behind the rest of the group.

ApoAlaia

ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »

I'm averaging around 85% uptime on an Oakensorc. I'm seeing similar numbers on the raid dummy to Infiltrator and Relequen. So tbh I'd rather run Infiltrator in a pen capped group as I'm getting the same damage and a nice 2k max stam for core mechanics.

But I know stuff is broken right now, so grain of salt I guess.

Didn't have a chance to test it myself but from what I gathered from the discord class and armour passives weren't working.

Just before I went to bed someone was saying that resetting the passives and applying them again fixed it for them.

Either way I can't see this set being viable for anything other than 'dummy humping' in its current state.

remosito

auz wrote: »

Have you been in pvp lately? No disagreement on the people running HA builds, but they are everywhere. Usually behind the rest of the group.

Doesn't mean anything...

People like me that suck in pvp gotta run something. Might as well run something that makes me suck a bit less. And which works well for pve soloing as well so I dont have to carry around yet another 12 pieces of gear...

what would be problematic is if those unskilled HA running people/groups suddenly own much better players/groups...

but that is not the case. We just suck less pathetically is all.

But maybe us sucking less pathetically is offensive enough to some people???

Sure seems that way with some of the HA haters out there... unless they do 2-3x the damage or can own at least 4 of us in pvp they demand nerfs...

Deter1UK

auz wrote: »

Have you been in pvp lately? No disagreement on the people running HA builds, but they are everywhere. Usually behind the rest of the group.

That's tactics, like in wargaming where you have skirmishers out front with archer support who can run back behind lines of heavy infantry/pikemen with cavalry support on the wings.

I'd love to see a proper choreographed battle in Cyro but that won't happen because no-one would want to do it unfortunately.

ixthUA

So what set to use instead? Storm Master requires all divines, crit mundus, crit weapon, just to proc once during 3 sec window.

ADarklore

Have none of you ever played an MMO before? There are constant changes, buffs and nerfs, continuously. Devs see what is overpowered, what is 'meta', and change it to keep the game "fresh" in THEIR opinion. They don't want to see people feel like they 'have to' run a certain set to be equal to others... and when they see it, they typically nerf it to get players to switch. So every time I hear people talking about 'must use' sets, I know they are headed for the nerf pile sooner or later.

Galeriano

Billium813 wrote: »

• Storm Master:
  • This set’s bonus damage with Light and Heavy Attacks now only works against monsters.
  • Reduced the duration of the bonus to 8 seconds, down from 20 seconds.
  • Reduced the cooldown to 5 seconds, down from 10.

@ZOS why... WHY reduce the proc window from 10 seconds down to only 3 seconds!? All this does it nerf Storm Master for EVERY weapon OTHER THAN Lightning Staff which has NO issue procing this within 3 seconds thanks to all the channel hits. They must have only tested this on Lightning Staff, it's the only thing that makes sense.

I mean, the issue wasn't Storm Master anyway... so this hardly matters... but the solution they came up with so ... inaccurate too! They picked the wrong set, AND they made a change that is totally bizarre. Just remove Lightning Staff channel damage from procing HA sets or getting buffed from HA sets and your job is done. Just do that. Please.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/629658/comparing-heavy-attacks

It works the same for every weapon type. Lightning staff can proc it only with final tick of heavy attack.

Syiccal

Undaunted Infiltrator / Undaunted Unweaver will be used going forward most likelly.
Or even something like Kinras

katorga

auz wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

Umm, not one of the heavy attack sets matter for pvp.

The fact that you can target an NPC and have nearby players receive full PVE-level splash damage from Tri-focus passive is where the damage comes from.

Is this a problem? Maybe in IC, but in Cyro, it is limited and situational. In BGs and duals, can't even happen.

Besides, a heavy attack build in pvp is around 150% weaker than a basic DK build. It is a bottom quartile build you run in a zerg when you want the rest of the players to carry you.

Have you been in pvp lately? No disagreement on the people running HA builds, but they are everywhere. Usually behind the rest of the group.

Read my last sentence..."It is a bottom quartile build you run in a zerg when you want the rest of the players to carry you."

TheDarkRuler

Storm Master is now only able to be kept up at about 80% of the time which renders the set unusable. If nerfing a set, at least keep it useable. Right now it is just a piece for the trash can.

Syiccal

Kinra might be useable replacement or UU or UI

kojou

The duration of 8 seconds was a head scratcher. It seems like they didn't want us to achieve 100% uptime. I'm surprised they didn't also introduce a trial set that was 3% better just so the heavy attack builds would have to farm it.

I think 10 seconds and 5 seconds respectively would keep it usable, but still accomplish the goal.

ApoAlaia

kojou wrote: »

The duration of 8 seconds was a head scratcher. It seems like they didn't want us to achieve 100% uptime. I'm surprised they didn't also introduce a trial set that was 3% better just so the heavy attack builds would have to farm it.

I think 10 seconds and 5 seconds respectively would keep it usable, but still accomplish the goal.

Given that there was no developer comment on this one I am hoping that they put the numbers out 'tentatively' and they are open to reviewing them.

BaalMelqartu

Runefang wrote: »

BaalMelqartu wrote: »

Well... I just finished putting most of my DPS in Storm Master. Now begins the process of getting them all back into Noble Duelist. It's annoying but it's what I have come to expect. Use up all trans crystals when sets are changed, spend forever replacing trans crystals, new sets nerfed, back to using up all trans crystals, etc. etc. Then there is the gold mats... *twitch*

To be fair, any set that is so strong you want it on every character is guaranteed to be nerfed. Clearly something is wrong there. Its a risky prospect, you don't know how many patches you're going to get out of it.

Seeing tons of characters in the same thing is not a guarantee for nerf other than that everything seems to get at least some sort of nerf eventually. IE: Pillar of Nirn, Relequen, etc. That being said, I did not say I am angry and demand they change things. I expressed an annoyance but also stated I'm used to this sort of thing. There are other options and I will try them. There are reasons I keep a minimum on hand of materials, transmutes, etc. I know that things get shaken up frequently.

ixthUA

Syiccal wrote: »

Undaunted Infiltrator / Undaunted Unweaver will be used going forward most likelly.
Or even something like Kinras

Undaunted Infiltrator looks better than un-nerfed Storm Master. I need to cast breach skill anyway.

Gendizer

I can still understand why you nerfed HA builds in PvP. But why are you doing it with PvE? What were players who just wanted to output decent DPS without using your buggy weaving mechanic?
Yes, this build is more convenient and simple, but in terms of damage, it cannot compete with the "normal" (at most, they were outputting around 100k DPS on HA, while regular top builds output around 120-130k DPS).
By nerfing the Storm Master set, you will deprive HA build enthusiasts of the ability to complete top-tier content, where high DPS is required. Rethink your decision before it's too late.

CameraBeardThePirate

The set's nerf only affects DPS by about 6% (likely less since PTS parses are missing Medium Armor Passives atm).



This is a PTS parse running Sergeants and Storm Master's that pulled 87k dps. The same build pulls 91k dps on Live. It will likely still be one of the best HA sets, but Noble Duelist's may overtake it in parses. However, because dps of the set only went down by a handful of percentage points, I see no reason to swap to Noble Duelist's if you already have a set of Storm Master's put together.

CameraBeardThePirate

TheDarkRuler wrote: »

Storm Master is now only able to be kept up at about 80% of the time which renders the set unusable. If nerfing a set, at least keep it useable. Right now it is just a piece for the trash can.

It's by no means unusable - it only nerfed overall DPS by about 6% (likely less as PTS parses are lower than they should be due to missing passives)