Is this a joke?

Billium813

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Billium813 wrote: »

> Adds X% more Damage Done

How does this compare to a Mythic like Death Dealer's Fete? At max stacks, DDF provides +2640 to your primary resource. What does that translate into for damage output? I feel like these Mythics are somewhat comparable, no? I get there is the pen and crit damage too... DDF seems so antiquated and simple in comparison... but they seem simple enough designs to try to compare if you remove the LA/HA reduction or consider a player that never weaves anyway.

i believe its 1 weapon/spell dmg is equivalent to 10.5 max resource

roughly 251 weapon/spell dmg

for that i think the rough conversion is about 1% increase in dmg per 100 weapon/spell dmg, so you would be at roughly 2.5% dmg increase from DDF

you would need about 5x more stats from DDF to compare to 11% dmg increase

but with that one you would also have to factor in what your losing from the light attack weave too

Unless you never weaved LAs to begin with... meaning it would just be a flat out better Mythic. With LA weaving, it probably still is better and you don't have to weave...

Soarora

StaticWave wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

did you read the part where it says "but your light and heavy attacks deal 99% less damage."?
if you did, im confused why this is a problem?
besides the Necrom info eso hub is from an older build of the chapter and there'll be five weeks of testing before it goes live, im sure if any of it is really actually bad it'll get changed

It's going to be a MASSIVE problem in PvP where light attack weaving is not as consistent as PvE parses. Hit & Run builds and classes will benefit tremendously from this mythic. I would argue that the majority of players could in fact use 3 tanky sets and still have damage thanks to this mythic.

If the numbers aren't adjusted, we will see another broken meta. DKs could abuse this mythic and run a full regen build to maximize Corrosive uptime while still retaining the damage of a full offensive build. NBs can go full damage and hit over 30k Spectral Bows. I can go on but you get the point.

I don't see why it can't just be changed to be only against pve enemies, though I'm not sure what the purpose of the penetration is in pve.

James-Wayne

Soarora wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

did you read the part where it says "but your light and heavy attacks deal 99% less damage."?
if you did, im confused why this is a problem?
besides the Necrom info eso hub is from an older build of the chapter and there'll be five weeks of testing before it goes live, im sure if any of it is really actually bad it'll get changed

It's going to be a MASSIVE problem in PvP where light attack weaving is not as consistent as PvE parses. Hit & Run builds and classes will benefit tremendously from this mythic. I would argue that the majority of players could in fact use 3 tanky sets and still have damage thanks to this mythic.

If the numbers aren't adjusted, we will see another broken meta. DKs could abuse this mythic and run a full regen build to maximize Corrosive uptime while still retaining the damage of a full offensive build. NBs can go full damage and hit over 30k Spectral Bows. I can go on but you get the point.

I don't see why it can't just be changed to be only against pve enemies, though I'm not sure what the purpose of the penetration is in pve.

In PvE the pen is good for solo play or PUG dungeon play when groups are unoptimised.

For PvP I would just say half everything but happy to test it next week.

TechMaybeHic

Tensar wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

merpins wrote: »

Nerf it and it becomes useless in PVE. Just make it not work in PVP, boom done.

At this point; there's no history of them really doing that but whatever. Can't take anything in the game seriously anymore. Might as well just let the obvious ones go rather than reserve the ridiculous to the few that find the not so obvious

it should have a proc, so at least it wouldnt be working in no proc campagns

the stats are really too strong

I guess if they need to make a change for where 20 people play...

I tease. Point I am making is the game is just plain silly now. Bonus for not light attacking. Bonus to avoid needing to block. Bonus for not bar swapping. Massive pulls with no CC immunity. Full armor ignore. Just item after item that ignores not just rules; but entire mechanics of the game.

"Play how you want" has changed to "we have no vision for what our game combat actually is"

Zezin

Some people think that this will help those who have bad ping and trouble light attacking, well, sure! It will also benefit way more the people who actually have good tight rotation with very good timing on their skills.

ADarklore

mmtaniac wrote: »

Templar mythic fianlly i can spam jabs without light attacks.
JAB JAB JAB JAB JAB JAB.

Perhaps this is their way of rewarding Templars who left the game or stopped playing Templar due to U35! Because this IMO seems a genuine boon to Stamplars, especially 2H Stamplars.

TechMaybeHic

ADarklore wrote: »

mmtaniac wrote: »

Templar mythic fianlly i can spam jabs without light attacks.
JAB JAB JAB JAB JAB JAB.

Perhaps this is their way of rewarding Templars who left the game or stopped playing Templar due to U35! Because this IMO seems a genuine boon to Stamplars, especially 2H Stamplars.

Problem is burning light nerfed in frequency and damage. It's still not great to do as with the CD for adding stacks every half second by damage from light attack, you potentially miss landing a hit every half second to add to burning light

Zezin

ADarklore wrote: »

mmtaniac wrote: »

Templar mythic fianlly i can spam jabs without light attacks.
JAB JAB JAB JAB JAB JAB.

Perhaps this is their way of rewarding Templars who left the game or stopped playing Templar due to U35! Because this IMO seems a genuine boon to Stamplars, especially 2H Stamplars.

I honestly don't understand the logic of this being for templars lol, it's OP for every class, although classes WITHOUT crit and pen bonuses will benefit more I.E. sorcerer.

Zezin

Interestingly though the new class will benefit the least from it as it seems to have strong pen and crit damage passives.

chrisfeng

Mythic 4, here we come! Now that's "lifting the floor to the ceiling (not roof!)" I am talking about.

KlauthWarthog

Oh look, another mythic that turns the khajiit's signature racial passive into a joke.

RemoryAzure

the numbers are definitely out of bounds and need to be tuned down slightly, but this ring is the perfect thing to make builds that MUST exist but were never possible before, like using ranged skills with melee weapons.

also, it gets rid of bad game design which is weaving, and this is the most important thing. u may argue that it is some of the game core aspect but u are wrong (same goes for bar swapping and no cooldowns btw), because it can easily be done with macro, and im sure barely anyone doing it manually, it does not provide any gameplay-wise importance and it IS a purely mechanical thing that must be done with every skill u use, therefore its existence makes no sense, it exists "just because"

Tessitura

I really like the idea of this, but the crit damage does have me concerned. 28% is a looot and basically frees up a five piece and a mundus stone for crit builds which is kind of huge and potentially problematic. Be real nice on necro though. Might actually let them use their spammable which is stupid hard to weave.

Zezin

RemoryAzure wrote: »

the numbers are definitely out of bounds and need to be tuned down slightly, but this ring is the perfect thing to make builds that MUST exist but were never possible before, like using ranged skills with melee weapons.

also, it gets rid of bad game design which is weaving, and this is the most important thing. u may argue that it is some of the game core aspect but u are wrong (same goes for bar swapping and no cooldowns btw), because it can easily be done with macro, and im sure barely anyone doing it manually, it does not provide any gameplay-wise importance and it IS a purely mechanical thing that must be done with every skill u use, therefore its existence makes no sense, it exists "just because"

The fact you believe most people that weave are cheating worries me. As for wether or not this will get rid of weaving,it won't, it will get used by people that weave and to better effect than people who don't.

I'm repeating myself here but the way this seems to work it will only reduce the damage of the light attacks, weaving will still give you ulti, will still proc your enchants and sets, and knowing the way the games GCD works and casting skills with no delay will still make a huge difference.

Dr_Con

James-Wayne wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

did you read the part where it says "but your light and heavy attacks deal 99% less damage."?
if you did, im confused why this is a problem?
besides the Necrom info eso hub is from an older build of the chapter and there'll be five weeks of testing before it goes live, im sure if any of it is really actually bad it'll get changed

It's going to be a MASSIVE problem in PvP where light attack weaving is not as consistent as PvE parses. Hit & Run builds and classes will benefit tremendously from this mythic. I would argue that the majority of players could in fact use 3 tanky sets and still have damage thanks to this mythic.

If the numbers aren't adjusted, we will see another broken meta. DKs could abuse this mythic and run a full regen build to maximize Corrosive uptime while still retaining the damage of a full offensive build. NBs can go full damage and hit over 30k Spectral Bows. I can go on but you get the point.

I don't see why it can't just be changed to be only against pve enemies, though I'm not sure what the purpose of the penetration is in pve.

In PvE the pen is good for solo play or PUG dungeon play when groups are unoptimised.

For PvP I would just say half everything but happy to test it next week.

this. if someone isn't running alkosh, or crimson oath with tremorscale and infused crushing, usually in pug groups, it comes out to being exactly 7102 pen that still needs to be covered after major/minor breach are applied to reach the 18200 resist cap in certain PVE content.

Billium813

Soarora wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

did you read the part where it says "but your light and heavy attacks deal 99% less damage."?
if you did, im confused why this is a problem?
besides the Necrom info eso hub is from an older build of the chapter and there'll be five weeks of testing before it goes live, im sure if any of it is really actually bad it'll get changed

It's going to be a MASSIVE problem in PvP where light attack weaving is not as consistent as PvE parses. Hit & Run builds and classes will benefit tremendously from this mythic. I would argue that the majority of players could in fact use 3 tanky sets and still have damage thanks to this mythic.

If the numbers aren't adjusted, we will see another broken meta. DKs could abuse this mythic and run a full regen build to maximize Corrosive uptime while still retaining the damage of a full offensive build. NBs can go full damage and hit over 30k Spectral Bows. I can go on but you get the point.

I don't see why it can't just be changed to be only against pve enemies, though I'm not sure what the purpose of the penetration is in pve.

Resistance (~33k), Crit Damage (125%), Penetration (over pen)

These are usually really good stats to throw at players for one simple fact: they have hidden caps! Players can unknowingly hit these caps, making the mythic MUCH less valuable in organized, group content. That is one way that ZOS attempts to reign these sort of sets in.

However, Damage Done has no cap and seems to be there purely to represent the LA Weaving aspect of the top DPS chads who LA weave. I suspect they added the other stats to make the Mythic more interesting than simply: "Increase Damage Done by 11%, reduce LA/HA damage by 99%". That's kind of a boring Mythic and the intended design is rather obvious (a replacement for LA weaving). Add Pen and Damage to represent PUG groups, and suddenly you have a Mythic that is supposed to represent the gap between PUG -> skilled Group

Zezin

Billium813 wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

did you read the part where it says "but your light and heavy attacks deal 99% less damage."?
if you did, im confused why this is a problem?
besides the Necrom info eso hub is from an older build of the chapter and there'll be five weeks of testing before it goes live, im sure if any of it is really actually bad it'll get changed

It's going to be a MASSIVE problem in PvP where light attack weaving is not as consistent as PvE parses. Hit & Run builds and classes will benefit tremendously from this mythic. I would argue that the majority of players could in fact use 3 tanky sets and still have damage thanks to this mythic.

If the numbers aren't adjusted, we will see another broken meta. DKs could abuse this mythic and run a full regen build to maximize Corrosive uptime while still retaining the damage of a full offensive build. NBs can go full damage and hit over 30k Spectral Bows. I can go on but you get the point.

I don't see why it can't just be changed to be only against pve enemies, though I'm not sure what the purpose of the penetration is in pve.

Resistance (~33k), Crit Damage (125%), Penetration (over pen)

These are usually really good stats to throw at players for one simple fact: they have hidden caps! Players can unknowingly hit these caps, making the mythic MUCH less valuable in organized, group content. That is one way that ZOS attempts to reign these sort of sets in.

However, Damage Done has no cap and seems to be there purely to represent the LA Weaving aspect of the top DPS chads who LA weave. I suspect they added the other stats to make the Mythic more interesting than simply: "Increase Damage Done by 11%, reduce LA/HA damage by 99%". That's kind of a boring Mythic and the intended design is rather obvious (a replacement for LA weaving). Add Pen and Damage to represent PUG groups, and suddenly you have a Mythic that is supposed to represent the gap between PUG -> skilled Group

except that with those kinds of stats you can just plan group buffs around them and just have even more damage on the top end.

Billium813

Zezin wrote: »

Billium813 wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

did you read the part where it says "but your light and heavy attacks deal 99% less damage."?
if you did, im confused why this is a problem?
besides the Necrom info eso hub is from an older build of the chapter and there'll be five weeks of testing before it goes live, im sure if any of it is really actually bad it'll get changed

It's going to be a MASSIVE problem in PvP where light attack weaving is not as consistent as PvE parses. Hit & Run builds and classes will benefit tremendously from this mythic. I would argue that the majority of players could in fact use 3 tanky sets and still have damage thanks to this mythic.

If the numbers aren't adjusted, we will see another broken meta. DKs could abuse this mythic and run a full regen build to maximize Corrosive uptime while still retaining the damage of a full offensive build. NBs can go full damage and hit over 30k Spectral Bows. I can go on but you get the point.

I don't see why it can't just be changed to be only against pve enemies, though I'm not sure what the purpose of the penetration is in pve.

Resistance (~33k), Crit Damage (125%), Penetration (over pen)

These are usually really good stats to throw at players for one simple fact: they have hidden caps! Players can unknowingly hit these caps, making the mythic MUCH less valuable in organized, group content. That is one way that ZOS attempts to reign these sort of sets in.

However, Damage Done has no cap and seems to be there purely to represent the LA Weaving aspect of the top DPS chads who LA weave. I suspect they added the other stats to make the Mythic more interesting than simply: "Increase Damage Done by 11%, reduce LA/HA damage by 99%". That's kind of a boring Mythic and the intended design is rather obvious (a replacement for LA weaving). Add Pen and Damage to represent PUG groups, and suddenly you have a Mythic that is supposed to represent the gap between PUG -> skilled Group

except that with those kinds of stats you can just plan group buffs around them and just have even more damage on the top end.

Fair. It depends on HOW much a mythic like this will represent the top end. However, the alternative Mythics that players would want to wear will always be huge trade off as long as players are limited to wearing 1 Mythic at a time.

It's kinda the same old, same old thing that ZOS keeps tripping over. ZOS tries to make changes or sets to devalue the top end, but then the top end just finds a way to incorporate it themselves and the bar is raised even higher. Leading to walkbacks and nerfs that end up just devaluing the intended design in the first place. You see this all the time everytime ZOS tries to combat ball groups in PvP. They need to incorporate group size and PvP/PvE more in design I think.

Zezin

Billium813 wrote: »

Zezin wrote: »

Billium813 wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

did you read the part where it says "but your light and heavy attacks deal 99% less damage."?
if you did, im confused why this is a problem?
besides the Necrom info eso hub is from an older build of the chapter and there'll be five weeks of testing before it goes live, im sure if any of it is really actually bad it'll get changed

It's going to be a MASSIVE problem in PvP where light attack weaving is not as consistent as PvE parses. Hit & Run builds and classes will benefit tremendously from this mythic. I would argue that the majority of players could in fact use 3 tanky sets and still have damage thanks to this mythic.

If the numbers aren't adjusted, we will see another broken meta. DKs could abuse this mythic and run a full regen build to maximize Corrosive uptime while still retaining the damage of a full offensive build. NBs can go full damage and hit over 30k Spectral Bows. I can go on but you get the point.

I don't see why it can't just be changed to be only against pve enemies, though I'm not sure what the purpose of the penetration is in pve.

Resistance (~33k), Crit Damage (125%), Penetration (over pen)

These are usually really good stats to throw at players for one simple fact: they have hidden caps! Players can unknowingly hit these caps, making the mythic MUCH less valuable in organized, group content. That is one way that ZOS attempts to reign these sort of sets in.

However, Damage Done has no cap and seems to be there purely to represent the LA Weaving aspect of the top DPS chads who LA weave. I suspect they added the other stats to make the Mythic more interesting than simply: "Increase Damage Done by 11%, reduce LA/HA damage by 99%". That's kind of a boring Mythic and the intended design is rather obvious (a replacement for LA weaving). Add Pen and Damage to represent PUG groups, and suddenly you have a Mythic that is supposed to represent the gap between PUG -> skilled Group

except that with those kinds of stats you can just plan group buffs around them and just have even more damage on the top end.

Fair. It depends on HOW much a mythic like this will represent the top end. However, the alternative Mythics that players would want to wear will always be huge trade off as long as players are limited to wearing 1 Mythic at a time.

It's kinda the same old, same old thing that ZOS keeps tripping over. ZOS tries to make changes or sets to devalue the top end, but then the top end just finds a way to incorporate it themselves and the bar is raised even higher. Leading to walkbacks and nerfs that end up just devaluing the intended design in the first place. You see this all the time everytime ZOS tries to combat ball groups in PvP. They need to incorporate group size and PvP/PvE more in design I think.

Well with the arcanist coming out there's the ulti that gives weapon/spell damage, support could use that without issues instead of horn as major force won't be needed, similarly alkosh would not be needed either freeing up a dps to use a different set. For other mythic options kilt has many limitations to where it can be used and this doesn't(also this is stronger than kilt, same with sea-serpent(again this is stronger than it) and that only leaves Mora's which is almost the same damage increase as having a monster helm so I would not consider a competitor to this an thrasians which well... It's thrasians kinda meh.

Zezin

[snip]

Nope, macros are definitely against TOS and considered cheating, also I enjoy weaving as it's a good way to create a rhythm to my rotation, I understand people who don't but please don't go around tossing accusations that you don't know are true or not.

[edited to remove quote]

Billium813

[snip]

Addon != Macro

Macros perform actions FOR you. Addons provide you with information, but you are still required to process and act on that information yourself. It isn't about "how much advantage it provides" or "whether players could do it themselves anyway". Just because a player COULD do it themselves, doesn't mean it's allowed to be automated with macros and scripts. ZOS wants a real person pressing buttons, not a script. I learned this the hard way with Jagex and mining scripts in Runescape about 15 years ago...

ZOS does NOT support automated button pressing. That is 1 step away from botting...

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/1827438/#Comment_1827438

[edited to remove quote]

acastanza_ESO

[snip]

Macros are absolutely against the terms of service, they are cheating and people have been banned for it.
Do not use them, if you do you are cheating.
Addons are not cheating, ZOS develops and supports an API that gives specific functions that addon developers are allowed to use, occasionally addons do cross the line and when that happens ZOS restricts those functions in the API.

[edited to remove quote]

ZOS_Lunar

Hello!

We've removed some posts from this thread as they violated our rules on baiting and misinformation. We understand that everyone has their own opinions they want to express, but we also want the forums to be a constructive platform for ESO and its community. Please refer to our Code of Conduct for questions about allowed add-ons.

Thank you for your understanding, and please keep the Community Rules in mind when posting on the forums.

RemoryAzure

ZOS_Lunar wrote: »

Hello!

We've removed some posts from this thread as they violated our rules on baiting and misinformation. We understand that everyone has their own opinions they want to express, but we also want the forums to be a constructive platform for ESO and its community. Please refer to our Code of Conduct for questions about allowed add-ons.

Thank you for your understanding, and please keep the Community Rules in mind when posting on the forums.

please explain, u did not remove the posts of people who claim that macro's are prohibited, [snip]
the proof is given by the other guy above:

Billium813 wrote: »

ZOS does NOT support automated button pressing. That is 1 step away from botting...

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/1827438/#Comment_1827438

[edited to remove quote]

quoting official statement of ZoS team:

"software that permits You to use Services without human input are examples of methods not authorized by ZeniMax is prohibited". e.g. = AHK

[snip]

[edited for misinformation]

Billium813

RemoryAzure wrote: »

Billium813 wrote: »

ZOS does NOT support automated button pressing. That is 1 step away from botting...

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/1827438/#Comment_1827438

[edited to remove quote]

quoting official statement of ZoS team:

"software that permits You to use Services without human input are examples of methods not authorized by ZeniMax is prohibited". e.g. = AHK

[snip]

> "The use of gaming keyboards and mice are not prohibited". therefore razer synapse / corsair icue / etc macroses are allowed

100% incorrect. That's not what that means at all. Partially quoting does not validate your opinion. You have to read the entire sentence:

The use of gaming keyboards and mice are not prohibited, but the use of third-party software or other means of creating macros to automate in-game functions is a violation

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/1827438/#Comment_1827438

Of course the use of keyboards and mice is not prohibited, that's how we play the game! However, using "gaming keyboards and mice" does not include macro software that those peripherals include. That macro software IS the "third-party software" that "automates in-game functions" and is a violation.

RemoryAzure

Billium813 wrote: »

That macro software IS the "third-party software" that "automates in-game functions" and is a violation.

no, u are wrong here:
1. third-party software is something that works regardless of hardware, while, for example, razer synapse is NOT "third-party software", it is a device driver. there are many examples of games that detect AHK (third party botting software) as cheating tool, but device drivers work just fine
2. synapse weaving macro does NOT automate in-game functions, u are still here playing the game and pressing buttons. just doing it slightly more comfortable than the others, and i think it is totally fine coz weaving is the most absurd game design and simply bad ux. ive never ever played without weaving macro during my 2-year playtime, and if not macro, ive never even thought installing the game.

Tommy_The_Gun

Mythic 4 sound actually very dangerous because of PvP Ganking. Pen + % damage done + Crit damage done. NB with this mythic will be able to Incap + SA everything to death, no matter how tanky player is.... Unless they are DK with Corrosive that is.

It may be also very dangerous on other PvP builds (like DKs mentioned before). Also, just a thought - it does not seem to have a range / melee condition, so we might see Snipe builds again.

Zezin

RemoryAzure wrote: »

Billium813 wrote: »

That macro software IS the "third-party software" that "automates in-game functions" and is a violation.

no, u are wrong here:
1. third-party software is something that works regardless of hardware, while, for example, razer synapse is NOT "third-party software", it is a device driver. there are many examples of games that detect AHK (third party botting software) as cheating tool, but device drivers work just fine
2. synapse weaving macro does NOT automate in-game functions, u are still here playing the game and pressing buttons. just doing it slightly more comfortable than the others, and i think it is totally fine coz weaving is the most absurd game design and simply bad ux. ive never ever played without weaving macro during my 2-year playtime, and if not macro, ive never even thought installing the game.

Seems like there's at least one person in this thread using macros to me, anyway this it pointless and we're discussing mythics here.

Zezin

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Mythic 4 sound actually very dangerous because of PvP Ganking. Pen + % damage done + Crit damage done. NB with this mythic will be able to Incap + SA everything to death, no matter how tanky player is.... Unless they are DK with Corrosive that is.

It may be also very dangerous on other PvP builds (like DKs mentioned before). Also, just a thought - it does not seem to have a range / melee condition, so we might see Snipe builds again.

high burst classes will benefit the most as is the norm for stat focused sets but with those stats pretty much all classes will be using it.

colossalvoids

Macros were indeed mentioned in tos, it's forbidden in eso. Meanwhile no serious players runs them anyway, I'm sure there is an audience for such stuff but that's outside of most competitive activities on a higher level. People just playing the game as is, as shocking as it appears to be. Weaving isn't some crazy skill, I'm playing way more "piano" in poe currently accompanied with way more lmb per second than eso would ever require (just 1 per second), adding bashes with another mouse button.

The only use case for those I'm aware of is standardized testing on PTS by some players, but that's have nothing to do with actually running content on live.