A Tale of Abandoned DLCs

brtomkin

They should give 1 Seal of Endeavor as a reward for each completed daily quest. That would be an incentive for many players to spread out across the map and do more daily quests.

markulrich1966

on xbox NA, summerset is still fine, farmed 250 culanda laquer since last weekend.

Reason most likely is, that it is a guaranteed drop, unlike in zones like blackwood.
They also toned down the difficulty of the bosses meanwhile I think, at least they are easier then those in newer DLCs.

Both is rewarding and encouraging, so people prefer such zones.

High Isle has the same issue as blackwood, no guaranteed drops, high difficulty. Only reason it might be a little more popular is the beautiful setting.

dcam86b14_ESO

If I see that a zone is a little lonely I teleport to other people in my guilds in the same zone and always manage to find a shard that is full of people.

Billium813

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Billium813 wrote: »

Zuboko wrote: »

I've pondered about this for a while and while I would like to see them revisit old zones, I would rather see them fill out all of Tamriel before they go back to an old zone.

It's unfortunate. I remember hearing in the Mike Finnigan interview with ESOU how making changes to the base game is almost impossible. It's easier to design a completely new zone or dungeon or instanced thing, rather than go back and touch the house of cards that is the base zone or some older DLC zone/mechanic. It's why we will never see a new skill line and it's MUCH more likely that we will see a new class. It's all about compartmentalization and that is the folly of design. It's easier and safer to add onto a game, rather than make changes to improve or integrate into what exists! There is WAY less risk in development; less to rebalance, less to break and upset players over. It's easy, it's safe... and it's boring and creates parasitic design and mechanical paths that lead no where and become stale... they add content that doesn't necessarily improve the core gameplay loop but just bloats the game. They create the treadmill where all the new content is in the latest release and once you finish with the old stuff, there is no reason to go back. Nothing connects or integrates, it just exists... like a carnival ride that everyone has been on 100 times so no one stands in line anymore.

I'm thinking maybe you misunderstood what he was talking about, because they add new stuff to old zones all the time.

When Summerset came out, they added Jewelry crafting stations to just about all of the earlier zones.

When Murkmire came out, they added new daily quests (picked up and turned in in Stormhold) in several of the original base game zones.

When High Isle came out, they added Tribute tables and NPCs to just about every zone.

So they can definitely "touch the house of cards" to add new content to the old base game zones.

On the other hand, I imagine they can't go back and easily make extensive fundamental design changes to existing zones. But they can and do add new content that connects and integrates new zones with the old zones.

Summerset release date: May, 2018
Murkmire release date: October, 2018

These examples you give aren't exactly recent...

Not only that, but I don't think I would consider adding an NPC, a crafting station, and a standalone tent for ToT, all over a span of 4 years as "making changes to the base game zones".

FlopsyPrince

DP99 wrote: »

I've experiencing this as well on PCNA, trying to get the 30 WB dailies done in Blackwood, and it's extremely difficult now because there's just no one around anymore. I'm at about halfway through them, but it's going to take much longer to get them all now with it being such a dead zone since Firesong relapsed.

So, I'm mostly just resolved myself to do what everyone else does and just get everything thing done in Galen now while I can while everyone is there. I hate it, but, if that's what has to be done, then that's what has to be done.

That is the major flaw that no one really seems to be addressing. I have noted the same and then gotten one or more replies saying the poster solos those easily, something I definitely cannot do. I have even tried to jump into small groups doing Harrowstorms only to bail 15 minutes later when we have made no progress due to the self-healing.

This makes all that time spend on the content mostly useless. You either rush in and do it when it is new or you become a player god and solo it. You may get help at times, but you can't count on it.

Try fighting the monk and his disciples in Southern Elsweyr. They hit like a truck and it is hard even in a good group, unless you get someone that can nuke the boss down so quickly they don't get to act.

Is this good design, especially for the long term?

Kingsindarkness

ZoS is ridiculously stubborn about some things.

They will not change Delves, or Public Dungeons nor will they change Four Man dungeons because they are convinced you are going to bump into some and meet a "lifelong friend"

Never mind that 99% of people think other people are horrible.

But they won't change it...DLC dungeons could sit and rot...as long as there is a minute chance of a Lifelong Friend being made...

At the very least Delves should be brought back to instanced the way they were in Beta and DLC dungeons should have a story mode and an option to bring a friend and use your companions along with regular four-man mode.

You can make your Lifelong Friend back in town.





Note Lifelong Friend is a registered trademark of Zenimax Inc all rights reserved.

SeaGtGruff

Billium813 wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Billium813 wrote: »

Zuboko wrote: »

I've pondered about this for a while and while I would like to see them revisit old zones, I would rather see them fill out all of Tamriel before they go back to an old zone.

It's unfortunate. I remember hearing in the Mike Finnigan interview with ESOU how making changes to the base game is almost impossible. It's easier to design a completely new zone or dungeon or instanced thing, rather than go back and touch the house of cards that is the base zone or some older DLC zone/mechanic. It's why we will never see a new skill line and it's MUCH more likely that we will see a new class. It's all about compartmentalization and that is the folly of design. It's easier and safer to add onto a game, rather than make changes to improve or integrate into what exists! There is WAY less risk in development; less to rebalance, less to break and upset players over. It's easy, it's safe... and it's boring and creates parasitic design and mechanical paths that lead no where and become stale... they add content that doesn't necessarily improve the core gameplay loop but just bloats the game. They create the treadmill where all the new content is in the latest release and once you finish with the old stuff, there is no reason to go back. Nothing connects or integrates, it just exists... like a carnival ride that everyone has been on 100 times so no one stands in line anymore.

I'm thinking maybe you misunderstood what he was talking about, because they add new stuff to old zones all the time.

When Summerset came out, they added Jewelry crafting stations to just about all of the earlier zones.

When Murkmire came out, they added new daily quests (picked up and turned in in Stormhold) in several of the original base game zones.

When High Isle came out, they added Tribute tables and NPCs to just about every zone.

So they can definitely "touch the house of cards" to add new content to the old base game zones.

On the other hand, I imagine they can't go back and easily make extensive fundamental design changes to existing zones. But they can and do add new content that connects and integrates new zones with the old zones.

Summerset release date: May, 2018
Murkmire release date: October, 2018

These examples you give aren't exactly recent...

Not only that, but I don't think I would consider adding an NPC, a crafting station, and a standalone tent for ToT, all over a span of 4 years as "making changes to the base game zones".

Your post that I was commenting on gave the impression that-- according to Mike Finnigan-- they can't touch the house of cards because the results will be disastrously unpredictable, and because of that they can't update the base game zones or add content that integrates new zones and old zones together.

And if that impression is what you took away from whatever Mike Finnigan said, then I think perhaps you musunderstood what he meant, because they still do add add new quests and NPCs and interactable objects and so forth in the base game zones. Do they do it every quarter? Maybe not. But they do it.

If my impression of what you were saying in your post was incorrect, then I stand corrected.

FlopsyPrince

Kingsindarkness wrote: »

At the very least Delves should be brought back to instanced the way they were in Beta and DLC dungeons should have a story mode and an option to bring a friend and use your companions along with regular four-man mode.

You can do that now. Just group with your friend with each of you having companions out. Go to the dungeon entrance and enter. That will give you 2 players and 2 companions.

Billium813

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Billium813 wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Billium813 wrote: »

Zuboko wrote: »

I've pondered about this for a while and while I would like to see them revisit old zones, I would rather see them fill out all of Tamriel before they go back to an old zone.

It's unfortunate. I remember hearing in the Mike Finnigan interview with ESOU how making changes to the base game is almost impossible. It's easier to design a completely new zone or dungeon or instanced thing, rather than go back and touch the house of cards that is the base zone or some older DLC zone/mechanic. It's why we will never see a new skill line and it's MUCH more likely that we will see a new class. It's all about compartmentalization and that is the folly of design. It's easier and safer to add onto a game, rather than make changes to improve or integrate into what exists! There is WAY less risk in development; less to rebalance, less to break and upset players over. It's easy, it's safe... and it's boring and creates parasitic design and mechanical paths that lead no where and become stale... they add content that doesn't necessarily improve the core gameplay loop but just bloats the game. They create the treadmill where all the new content is in the latest release and once you finish with the old stuff, there is no reason to go back. Nothing connects or integrates, it just exists... like a carnival ride that everyone has been on 100 times so no one stands in line anymore.

I'm thinking maybe you misunderstood what he was talking about, because they add new stuff to old zones all the time.

When Summerset came out, they added Jewelry crafting stations to just about all of the earlier zones.

When Murkmire came out, they added new daily quests (picked up and turned in in Stormhold) in several of the original base game zones.

When High Isle came out, they added Tribute tables and NPCs to just about every zone.

So they can definitely "touch the house of cards" to add new content to the old base game zones.

On the other hand, I imagine they can't go back and easily make extensive fundamental design changes to existing zones. But they can and do add new content that connects and integrates new zones with the old zones.

Summerset release date: May, 2018
Murkmire release date: October, 2018

These examples you give aren't exactly recent...

Not only that, but I don't think I would consider adding an NPC, a crafting station, and a standalone tent for ToT, all over a span of 4 years as "making changes to the base game zones".

Your post that I was commenting on gave the impression that-- according to Mike Finnigan-- they can't touch the house of cards because the results will be disastrously unpredictable, and because of that they can't update the base game zones or add content that integrates new zones and old zones together.

And if that impression is what you took away from whatever Mike Finnigan said, then I think perhaps you musunderstood what he meant, because they still do add add new quests and NPCs and interactable objects and so forth in the base game zones. Do they do it every quarter? Maybe not. But they do it.

If my impression of what you were saying in your post was incorrect, then I stand corrected.

I was talking more about mechanical changes to the base game (I know I said "zone" once or twice). If that wasn't clear, that's my mistake. I know that they still add minor elements to base game "zone" for holidays and new DLC. I still stand by my comment that adding 1-2 NPCs, or a crafting station, to a base game "zone" doesn't exactly rise to the amount of integration I would like to see or the new things players want (like new skill lines).

I'll even also argue against my OP by pointing out there are some things they add to base game mechanically, like Antiquities leads and Prologue quests! However, I will also point out that these are very minor as well (it isn't that hard to add a drop to an existing WB or reuse a delve and just add 2 NPCs in a quest line).

I think players really want more development to build on existing assets in the game, to feedback into each other and grow the game rather than just bloat it with new features that are essentially dead ends (Like ToT, or Companions, or the justice system, or treasures, or the thieves/mages/fighters guild, or the Brotherhood, or Cyrodiil, or the player guild system)

Molydeus

me_ming wrote: »

Scaletho wrote: »

Yesterday I went to Blackwood. Took a WB daily and went to the boss' place. No one there. I decided not to call a group, but just wait and see how many players will be called to the place by taking the same daily.

After 4-5 hours, no one came.

Days before I went to Fargrave-The deadlands. Same stuff, WB daily. Waited around 3-4 hours, no one came. Basically the same with beautiful N. Elsweyr, S. Elsweyr, Vvaderfell... older regions? You kidding. Almost no one is there.

ESO is a game of forgotten DLCs. Little by little. Launch a DLC, sold it; players come; the stories go for a year or less; next year: another DLC, another region, other characters.

For many new players the solution is to follow the "zeitgeist": leave the old (and some amazing) stories, go to the new regions where most players are.

No "revisiting" stories. No come back to old DLCs or some beloved characters. Abandoned, empty, forgotten.

The sad irony is: if ZOS keep this method for too long, ESO will really vanished into oblivion.

you should go to Gold Coast. lol. It's almost a ghost town. Literally. Do they even still drop the Dark Brotherhood motif?

I always see people in Gold Coast. PC NA.

alternatelder

Molydeus wrote: »

me_ming wrote: »

Scaletho wrote: »

Yesterday I went to Blackwood. Took a WB daily and went to the boss' place. No one there. I decided not to call a group, but just wait and see how many players will be called to the place by taking the same daily.

After 4-5 hours, no one came.

Days before I went to Fargrave-The deadlands. Same stuff, WB daily. Waited around 3-4 hours, no one came. Basically the same with beautiful N. Elsweyr, S. Elsweyr, Vvaderfell... older regions? You kidding. Almost no one is there.

ESO is a game of forgotten DLCs. Little by little. Launch a DLC, sold it; players come; the stories go for a year or less; next year: another DLC, another region, other characters.

For many new players the solution is to follow the "zeitgeist": leave the old (and some amazing) stories, go to the new regions where most players are.

No "revisiting" stories. No come back to old DLCs or some beloved characters. Abandoned, empty, forgotten.

The sad irony is: if ZOS keep this method for too long, ESO will really vanished into oblivion.

you should go to Gold Coast. lol. It's almost a ghost town. Literally. Do they even still drop the Dark Brotherhood motif?

I always see people in Gold Coast. PC NA.

It's different on each platform and server. These dlc zones are devoid of anyone. I play on PC NA and PS5 NA . On PC, on a Wednesday during the day, to my surprise there were many people farming the dragons. You'd rarely see this on the weekend, or any day on console anymore.