Magsorc is terrible for PvP (issues & suggestions for Update 36)

PhoenixGrey

AdamLAD wrote: »

"The problem is that none of us can figure out how to build and to play MagSorc competitively in PvP with current tool kits"

I Play mine just fine. I have adjusted and got numerous builds that do work. Granted its alot more difficult than previous updates. You simply cannot just burst down players anymore. Wearing them down is the only option, when it's supposed to be a burst class. Outdated. Obviously needs additional work.

It does not work.

There is no build in this game which makes mag sorc S tier or A tier or we would not be having this post

Players expect higher standards from the classes they play unlike some of us who are happy wearing players down.

Wearing down players is a dueling thing and it’s not possible in a 1vX outside pvp events where you are up against PVE players. Any top tier player will know this

It sounds like your server is still in mid year mayhem mode. Good for you

Overamera

AdamLAD wrote: »

"The problem is that none of us can figure out how to build and to play MagSorc competitively in PvP with current tool kits"

I Play mine just fine. I have adjusted and got numerous builds that do work. Granted its alot more difficult than previous updates. You simply cannot just burst down players anymore. Wearing them down is the only option, when it's supposed to be a burst class. Outdated. Obviously needs additional work.

Console and PC is very different. If you tried PC you would know how bad your builds/magsorc really are.

Aces-High-82

That's very true - no add-ons, no automated inputs tied to your current characters state or avoidance of incoming damage, no package traffic manipulation, no "eso Trainer". Only reason I stopped playing on console is the even more horrific performance (fps/delay).

AdamLAD

Xbox EU has the absolute lowest population for any server. We constantly fight the same people each day. There's no fresh new players entering PvP. I went on to XBOX NA and its absolutely littered with players who haven't got a clue. I was crushing good players and 1vXing at 300cp. PC is VASTLY more populated than Xbox NA, which means there's a higher number of players who are not good at all or fresh. It's actually such a luxury. Untill you physically try Xbox EU, you will not understand what I'm talking about. My builds will absolutely work on PC because there's more new people to kill. Simple as that.

PhoenixGrey

AdamLAD wrote: »

I was crushing good players and 1vXing at 300cp.

How exactly are you determining that the players you crushed were good ?

Overamera

AdamLAD wrote: »

Xbox EU has the absolute lowest population for any server. We constantly fight the same people each day. There's no fresh new players entering PvP. I went on to XBOX NA and its absolutely littered with players who haven't got a clue. I was crushing good players and 1vXing at 300cp. PC is VASTLY more populated than Xbox NA, which means there's a higher number of players who are not good at all or fresh. It's actually such a luxury. Untill you physically try Xbox EU, you will not understand what I'm talking about. My builds will absolutely work on PC because there's more new people to kill. Simple as that.

Come pc then. We can test your build on pts and you will see how differently pc meta is vs console

Didgerion

The solo play is going extinct in Cyrodiil right now (for all classes) which means that buffing sorc in the current state of the game will make zerg groups even more toxic (because you know half of them are sorcs and the other half are templars).

ZOS really needs to rework how range executes and ranged CC works in Cyrodiil before they buff sorcs and templars.

PhoenixGrey

Didgerion wrote: »

The solo play is going extinct in Cyrodiil right now (for all classes) which means that buffing sorc in the current state of the game will make zerg groups even more toxic (because you know half of them are sorcs and the other half are templars).

ZOS really needs to rework how range executes and ranged CC works in Cyrodiil before they buff sorcs and templars.

Of course, there is always a reason not to buff sorc and always a reason to buff nightblade.

Buff it or break it, idc. No reason to worry about buffs when you are the better player

SkaraMinoc

AdamLAD wrote: »

"The problem is that none of us can figure out how to build and to play MagSorc competitively in PvP with current tool kits"

I Play mine just fine. I have adjusted and got numerous builds that do work.

AdamLAD wrote: »

My builds will absolutely work on PC because there's more new people to kill. Simple as that.

Mag Sorcs, and to a lesser extent Stam Sorcs, have a very difficult time in high MMR BGs on PC NA. The only exception is Bash Sorc which is very niche and S-tier in some cases, especially 1v1.

A fully buffed Sorc doesn't have enough burst anymore and the defensive toolkit is severely lacking. Shields are paper thin and blocking eats stamina needed for Dark Conversion. Not to mention the Matriarch literally dies in 1 second and now you've wasted 2 slots, but it doesn't matter because you're about to die anyways.

Sorcs do okay in lower matchmaking but at the very top they aren't viable anymore. They need a serious re-work.

olsborg

Yup, magsorc has been left behind in the past where they once shined very bright, now they are weak and outdated compared to the other classes. Magsorcs shield and basicly shields in general was once one of the best ways to defend yourself, now it is easily the worst.
Most heals if not all heals will perform better then a shield and any shield will just melt away so fast now with how high the damage is.
Pets are lackluster imo, the main issues is how easily they die, how bad the AI is unless its a 1v1 and they still require 2 slots.
Streak is a shadow of its former self, its situational at best. Many ppl use gapclosers now wich is an easy counter to streak and everyone is alot faster now even without sprinting so streak is often just a waste of magicka. It can be still be nice skill if used correctly by someone very smart if they are in the right place at the right time.

Melzo

The post above that the sorcerer is weak due to the difference in the amount of mana against spell damage is not half true. All because of proc sets. In bg or cp campaigns, a sorcerer uses flat stats that are weaker due to proc sets. If you go to companies without an cp, then the situation will become clearer there, since there the mana of the sorcerer will be considered an s tier. A sorcerer's mana does not lose anything by switching to a non-cp company, but the rest of the classes lose proc sets. Because of this, their damage, resource recovery and defense suffer greatly.

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

AdamLAD wrote: »

"The problem is that none of us can figure out how to build and to play MagSorc competitively in PvP with current tool kits"

I Play mine just fine. I have adjusted and got numerous builds that do work.

AdamLAD wrote: »

My builds will absolutely work on PC because there's more new people to kill. Simple as that.

Mag Sorcs, and to a lesser extent Stam Sorcs, have a very difficult time in high MMR BGs on PC NA. The only exception is Bash Sorc which is very niche and S-tier in some cases, especially 1v1.

A fully buffed Sorc doesn't have enough burst anymore and the defensive toolkit is severely lacking. Shields are paper thin and blocking eats stamina needed for Dark Conversion. Not to mention the Matriarch literally dies in 1 second and now you've wasted 2 slots, but it doesn't matter because you're about to die anyways.

Sorcs do okay in lower matchmaking but at the very top they aren't viable anymore. They need a serious re-work.

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

AdamLAD wrote: »

"The problem is that none of us can figure out how to build and to play MagSorc competitively in PvP with current tool kits"

I Play mine just fine. I have adjusted and got numerous builds that do work.

AdamLAD wrote: »

My builds will absolutely work on PC because there's more new people to kill. Simple as that.

Mag Sorcs, and to a lesser extent Stam Sorcs, have a very difficult time in high MMR BGs on PC NA. The only exception is Bash Sorc which is very niche and S-tier in some cases, especially 1v1.

A fully buffed Sorc doesn't have enough burst anymore and the defensive toolkit is severely lacking. Shields are paper thin and blocking eats stamina needed for Dark Conversion. Not to mention the Matriarch literally dies in 1 second and now you've wasted 2 slots, but it doesn't matter because you're about to die anyways.

Sorcs do okay in lower matchmaking but at the very top they aren't viable anymore. They need a serious re-work.

Bash sorcerer? This is the first time I've heard of this and I've never seen it. Sorcerers are strong, and staminal sorcerers have the highest damage in 1v1 pvp, not counting the explosive combo nb. Stam sorcerer, even a disabled person will win. The simplest and most efficient class. With the right build, you can roll your face across the keyboard and still win.

Turtle_Bot

[snip]

Melzo wrote: »

The post above that the sorcerer is weak due to the difference in the amount of mana against spell damage is not half true. All because of proc sets. In bg or cp campaigns, a sorcerer uses flat stats that are weaker due to proc sets. If you go to companies without an cp, then the situation will become clearer there, since there the mana of the sorcerer will be considered an s tier. A sorcerer's mana does not lose anything by switching to a non-cp company, but the rest of the classes lose proc sets. Because of this, their damage, resource recovery and defense suffer greatly.

Others have provided mathematical proof that the scaling of magicka required to make sorcerer work defensively is much worse than scaling raw damage for damage and healing in the current game [snip]

Bash sorcerer? This is the first time I've heard of this and I've never seen it. Sorcerers are strong, and staminal sorcerers have the highest damage in 1v1 pvp, not counting the explosive combo nb. Stam sorcerer, even a disabled person will win. The simplest and most efficient class. With the right build, you can roll your face across the keyboard and still win.

[snip]

Sorcerers are NOT strong, they are the weakest class in the game at the moment and have been for multiple patches now. This is FACT. The ONLY reason stamina sorcerer was strong 2 patches ago in U34 was because of 1 single overtuned skill that got gutted in U35 and 1 set that was not working as intended which also got fixed in U35. The class outside of those 2 specific factors was non-existent in pvp all through U34 and onwards.

If you want to see a simple to play class, go watch a nb, a dk, or a warden. Those are the simple to play and strong classes in the current era of the game. Sorcerer requires minimum 5 times the number of inputs of any other class to achieve what other classes can do, both offensively and defensively.

[snip]
[edited for baiting]

Melzo

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

[snip]

Melzo wrote: »

The post above that the sorcerer is weak due to the difference in the amount of mana against spell damage is not half true. All because of proc sets. In bg or cp campaigns, a sorcerer uses flat stats that are weaker due to proc sets. If you go to companies without an cp, then the situation will become clearer there, since there the mana of the sorcerer will be considered an s tier. A sorcerer's mana does not lose anything by switching to a non-cp company, but the rest of the classes lose proc sets. Because of this, their damage, resource recovery and defense suffer greatly.

Others have provided mathematical proof that the scaling of magicka required to make sorcerer work defensively is much worse than scaling raw damage for damage and healing in the current game [snip]

Bash sorcerer? This is the first time I've heard of this and I've never seen it. Sorcerers are strong, and staminal sorcerers have the highest damage in 1v1 pvp, not counting the explosive combo nb. Stam sorcerer, even a disabled person will win. The simplest and most efficient class. With the right build, you can roll your face across the keyboard and still win.

[snip]

Sorcerers are NOT strong, they are the weakest class in the game at the moment and have been for multiple patches now. This is FACT. The ONLY reason stamina sorcerer was strong 2 patches ago in U34 was because of 1 single overtuned skill that got gutted in U35 and 1 set that was not working as intended which also got fixed in U35. The class outside of those 2 specific factors was non-existent in pvp all through U34 and onwards.

If you want to see a simple to play class, go watch a nb, a dk, or a warden. Those are the simple to play and strong classes in the current era of the game. Sorcerer requires minimum 5 times the number of inputs of any other class to achieve what other classes can do, both offensively and defensively.

[snip]
[edited for baiting]

I play bg every day against pretty strong players. And something did not notice that the sorceres were weak. Perhaps they are weak in your head. The sorcerer cannot, as before, kill with one combo, but you can also say about all classes. The only class that has huge damage is nb. Perhaps the only weak class is the necromancer nerfed in the last patch, the rest have the same situation. By the way, the warden is not the strongest class. They just put him back on line. Previously, he could only fight in close combat, but now he has normal healing and damage in ranged combat. The strongest class is nb with its inadequate damage, the weakest necromancer and the rest are in the middle. And it doesn't matter if they are stamina or magic classes.

The same can be said about the templar. Many will say that this class is weak, but when the next templar finishes with a score of 15-0. You involuntarily think about it, but did they really weaken it ???

The only thing to complain about is that summon pets do little damage. I'm watching a sorcerer here in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXvep0MfaZA&t=357s and his shield protects almost 11000. My necromancer critical heal is 10000-12000...11000 in pvp. Almost a third of life. I don't know about you, but that's quite a lot. And the damage is pretty good. You can replace the monster set with a pirate set that gives 10 percent protection and then your 11000 mana shield will be affected by an additional 15(5 Percent gives skill on the back panel) percent of the buffs. I have 25 health on a warden and 28 from a buff. Playing with six pieces of light armor and having 5000-6000 spell damage with the new mythic necklace. The only thing that does more damage is the spamming ability, otherwise I still lose in terms of damage. The ability spam deals 3000 to 4000 damage. On average, I gain 500 damage from the ability spam, but the other damage is weaker. By the way, in melee spam, the ability deals damage from 5000-6000 but you have to be too weak a sorcerer if you can't keep your distance from the warden slowed down by 40 percent.... Without the mythical item, the warden's damage is not so strong. But most importantly, you don't have to choose a staff type as a warden in the past or a necromancer.... Warden was given an ice staff and the necro with the staff is dead. Due to the poor balance of class and staff skills.

In general, do the same as in the video, only put on a pirate instead of a zaan and then no one will kill you. Well, only if you do not decide to face the NB face to face.

[snip]

[Edited for Baiting]

Melzo

The video shows a shield of 11000. This is scaling in the pvp zone. He was in the imperial city and is displaying the correct values there. Are you critiquing 18,000 thousand in the pvp zone ??? I would understand if you are a dk but a sorcerer?? Why do you need a mana shield if you restore two players for half a life. ??This is your argument for a weak sorcerer?? I restore from 6 to 12 thousand health to only one player. For yourself or an ally, and you two for 10000-18000. Maybe I didn't understand? And where is the weak sorcerer then ??

Aces-High-82

First off I can't even remember when I slotted a shield on magsorc. If you'd have red my comments I am absolutely against shields scaling from damage and liked them to become function like buffs. I am all for decoupling healing from damage and scale them of max resources while decrease damage scaling via max stats even further.
It's the ofensive toolkit that needs to be redone (and twilight hp pool).

Right now the best scaling stats are weap/spell dmg, HP and mag/Stam recovery. If you still can't figure out why your capabilities are such underwhelming you should consider to bother other ppl with unqualified posts.

Turtle_Bot

Melzo wrote: »

I play bg every day against pretty strong players. And something did not notice that the sorceres were weak. Perhaps they are weak in your head. The sorcerer cannot, as before, kill with one combo, but you can also say about all classes. The only class that has huge damage is nb. Perhaps the only weak class is the necromancer nerfed in the last patch, the rest have the same situation. By the way, the warden is not the strongest class. They just put him back on line. Previously, he could only fight in close combat, but now he has normal healing and damage in ranged combat. The strongest class is nb with its inadequate damage, the weakest necromancer and the rest are in the middle. And it doesn't matter if they are stamina or magic classes.

This is outright untrue. I play high MMR bgs and openworld pvp. The ONLY sorcerer I see (and I only see them rarely) are stamina (bow) sorcerers.
Warden is strong, nb is strong, dk is strong except against a mara's balm user, and necro is still very common with it's strong and unique playstyle that gives it a niche. Plar has fallen off except for only a select few who play the class no matter what.

The same can be said about the templar. Many will say that this class is weak, but when the next templar finishes with a score of 15-0. You involuntarily think about it, but did they really weaken it ???

I am yet to see a plar go 15-0 in a high MMR bg. I have seen one of the best plar players in the world go 11-2 on a good day with that class.

The only thing to complain about is that summon pets do little damage.

I'm sorry, but what??????

Pets are literally the strongest and highest damaging PVE sorcerer build right now, even for stamina builds. Pets are also useless in pvp due to being designed around 2017 combat standards and never being updated for 2022 ESO.

I'm watching a sorcerer here in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXvep0MfaZA&t=357s and his shield protects almost 11000. My necromancer critical heal is 10000-12000...11000 in pvp.

I just finished watching that exact video. You are very misleading with this comment. That shield was an 11k TOOLTIP on only ONE of his shields, the other had an 8k tooltip (which is roughly 3.5k actual shield value). If you want to know the actual value of those shields when cast, reduce that tooltip value by 60% to see the real shield value (roughly4-5k). Don't forget that your 11k crit heal also gives you approximately 6k resistances making you extremely tanky when you use it. Meanwhile, shields don't heal you, so using shields on low life, you still proc things like the bonus damage from execute abilities. Also, as explained before, stacking into max magicka is much worse for buffing damage than building into raw damage values or crit. Look at the previous posts to see the maths behind it, I'm not going that in depth here.

I also want to note, that the players he fought in the video were not the best players, far from it (a few weren't even trying to fight back or defend themselves). So I would hardly use that video as proof that sorcerer is a strong class.

And the damage is pretty good.

the damage only looked good because he performed the rotation on a random, non-champion add (which have like barely 9k resistances and 0 crit resistance). Every class can essentially 1 shot those enemies, especially if they land a crit.

You can replace the monster set with a pirate set that gives 10 percent protection and then your 11000 mana shield will be affected by an additional 15(5 Percent gives skill on the back panel) percent of the buffs.

Again, you have confused a tooltip value for an in combat value. that 15% on top of a 5k shield does nothing, especially since it won't be 15% due to mitigation being stacked multiplicatively instead of additively (that means it has diminishing returns). Also, Pirate skeleton gives you 10% mitigation via major protection. Not 15% as you claim.

https://eso-sets.com/set/pirate-skeleton

It also requires you to take damage "To your health". This means that it doesn't work if you have shields up since the shields take the damage, not your health and to proc the set, you must take damage with your shields down to get major protection which is only 10% and not 15% mitigation.

I have 25 health on a warden and 28 from a buff. Playing with six pieces of light armor and having 5000-6000 spell damage with the new mythic necklace.

The stats of your build that you explain here shows that you either haven't played this game since 2019, or are outright lying. 25k health is nowhere near enough health in the current meta where 30k+ (28k in no cp/bgs) before anything like the toughness buff, is the minimum value required to survive, let alone perform well.
Light armor also hasn't been anywhere near the meta (for both pve and pvp) for years now outside of a set like rallying cry which people only run the waist piece and all jewelry because light armor is that bad in pvp. It lacks damage and mitigation. The bonuses it grants are to capped stats such as crit chance and pen, unlike medium armor which grants scaling bonuses to the uncapped raw damage stat.

The only thing that does more damage is the spamming ability, otherwise I still lose in terms of damage. The ability spam deals 3000 to 4000 damage. On average, I gain 500 damage from the ability spam, but the other damage is weaker.

I can only assume you are using the warden bird as a spammable (based on your gain 500 damage). That ability is known to be weak. Go frost staff with masters ice staff and frost reach or frost clench. Frost reach not only hits harder thanks to the changes to the passives, it gains more damage for casting it (+600 for non perfected, +700 for perfected masters staff), it's cheaper (10% cost reduction), it also inflicts guaranteed chilled status (which is another instance of damage) and brittle on enemies making you deal even more damage. Frost clench (the other morph) also inflicts major maim on the enemy, reducing their damage done by 10%, which is a lot of mitigation.

By the way, in melee spam, the ability deals damage from 5000-6000 but you have to be too weak a sorcerer if you can't keep your distance from the warden slowed down by 40 percent....

You want to really comment something like this AGAIN on a post made by one of the most respected, well known, not to mention one of the BEST sorcerer players in the game that has explained how bad the sorcerer class (mag especially) has become.

Without the mythical item, the warden's damage is not so strong. But most importantly, you don't have to choose a staff type as a warden in the past or a necromancer.... Warden was given an ice staff and the necro with the staff is dead. Due to the poor balance of class and staff skills.

It seems from what you are saying, it is your builds on warden and necro that are not strong. Warden is one of the strongest classes in the game currently and necro is still very much as tanky as it ever was and always has its colossus bomb to wipe entire zergs in an instant.

I suggest looking up proper pvp builds for those classes, build them, try them out, learn their playstyle and how to play them.

In general, do the same as in the video, only put on a pirate instead of a zaan and then no one will kill you. Well, only if you do not decide to face the NB face to face.

I suggest you do the same for your necro/warden if they truly seem that weak to you.

[snip]

[snip]

[Removed response to removed content]

Turtle_Bot

Melzo wrote: »

The video shows a shield of 11000. This is scaling in the pvp zone. He was in the imperial city and is displaying the correct values there. Are you critiquing 18,000 thousand in the pvp zone ??? I would understand if you are a dk but a sorcerer?? Why do you need a mana shield if you restore two players for half a life. ??This is your argument for a weak sorcerer?? I restore from 6 to 12 thousand health to only one player. For yourself or an ally, and you two for 10000-18000. Maybe I didn't understand? And where is the weak sorcerer then ??

You do not understand pvp scaling at all. The TOOLTIP shown in the video you linked, does not take into account percentage reductions from effects such as battle spirit. That video does NOT show correct values, it shows the tooltips and not the actual casted values of the shields.

You also conveniently left out the fact that necro gains a 3-6k unique armor bonus (assuming you are using the correct morph) based on your healing values when they use their heal, which is a lot of mitigation to be given for free.

To give you an idea, that is a free minor or major resolve that stacks with those 2 buffs, just for casting their heal and that is with your healing values. Someone on a proper necro build easily grants 9k+ unique armor buff to their heal target, especially if they crit heal. I have seen 12k armor buff from that heal alone in the past. That is a 24k heal (not tooltip, actual heal after battle spirit) to achieve that bonus armor value.

Psiion

Greetings all,

After removing and editing some posts, we'd like to remind everyone to keep discussion respectful and within the Community Rules. Baiting, mocking, or inciting conflict with other users is never constructive.

Per the Rules:

Trolling or Baiting: The act of trolling is defined as something that is created for the intent to provoke conflict, shock others, or to elicit a strong negative or emotional reaction. It’s okay and very normal to disagree with others, and even to debate, but provoking conflict, baiting, inciting, mocking, etc. is never acceptable in the official The Elder Scrolls Online community. If you do not have something constructive or meaningful to add to a discussion, we strongly recommend you refrain from posting in that thread, and find another discussion to participate in instead. It is also not constructive or helpful to publicly call out others and accuse them of trolling, or call them a troll—please refrain from doing so. If you genuinely believe someone is trolling, please report the post or thread to the ESO Team, and leave it at that.

Please keep the rules in mind moving forward.

Melzo

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

I just finished watching that exact video. You are very misleading with this comment. That shield was an 11k TOOLTIP on only ONE of his shields, the other had an 8k tooltip (which is roughly 3.5k actual shield value). If you want to know the actual value of those shields when cast, reduce that tooltip value by 60% to see the real shield value (roughly4-5k). Don't forget that your 11k crit heal also gives you approximately 6k resistances making you extremely tanky when you use it. Meanwhile, shields don't heal you, so using shields on low life, you still proc things like the bonus damage from execute abilities. Also, as explained before, stacking into max magicka is much worse for buffing damage than building into raw damage values or crit. Look at the previous posts to see the maths behind it, I'm not going that in depth here.

Read to the end. I explained how the mana shield works. I hope the admins will correct me if I'm wrong. The correct answer is at the end of the comment.

I now go to my necromancer who has 26 thousand mana. This amount of mana is enough for a shield made from a branch of light armor to withstand 8 thousand damage. I use this shield in pve content. You say that this shield gives only 4 thousand in pvp content. This is quite logical if you, like me, have 26 thousand mana. But the player in the video has 44k on the back. He also has bonuses from champion points. That's +15 percent shield boost. With 44,000 mana and boenuses from champion points, this shield should well withstand over 16,000 damage.

I just can't understand how 44k mana can only give you 3.5k damage protection..Is this some kind of joke?

If you take into account the battle spirit at the last stage, then at 27800 hp the sorcerer's mana shield gives 9500 damage protection.
And the formula is this.
Max health * 60% * 1.15(cp ) /2(battle spirit)
At 27800 chi, the shield protects 9500
At 30000+, the shield protects 11000+

However, there is one problem. The strength of the shield does not depend on the maximum health. And it depends on mana. So the above formula is not correct. Whether it's 11k or 15k, it doesn't exceed 60 percent of your maximum health. That is, you can achieve the effect when you have that in pvp that in pve the shield will protect the same amount of damage if you have a huge amount of mana. if you have 200 thousand mana. You will have maximum shield in both pvp and pve. battle spirit the effect of mana on the shield and not its health.

I hope the developers will comment on the correct effect of battle spirit on the shield. It depends on the maximum health and decreases at the last stage. Or it depends on the maximum mana and battle spirit reduces the influence of this characteristic by two, which confirms that 28 thousand health and 44 thousand mana gives a shield of 11 thousand. And this shield does not exceed 60 percent of maximum health.



I don't understand the quote below. I am not a native speaker and what you wrote makes my head hurt. But what did I mean. Warden has a 5% damage bonus, and the mythic necklace gives another 10% bonus. The classic sorcerer deals spam damage with a 3000-3500 damage ability. I meant that I deal 500 more damage than a sorcerer. My damage scales from 3000-4000. Depending on the armor of the enemy. I did not take into account critical damage.

I can only assume you are using the warden bird as a spammable (based on your gain 500 damage). That ability is known to be weak. Go frost staff with masters ice staff and frost reach or frost clench. Frost reach not only hits harder thanks to the changes to the passives, it gains more damage for casting it (+600 for non perfected, +700 for perfected masters staff), it's cheaper (10% cost reduction), it also inflicts guaranteed chilled status (which is another instance of damage) and brittle on enemies making you deal even more damage. Frost clench (the other morph) also inflicts major maim on the enemy, reducing their damage done by 10%, which is a lot of mitigation.

All I wanted to convey is that the whole gameplay against players is the use of two skills with direct damage. And due to the nerf of periodic damage, the sorcerer benefits in damage per second due to direct damage. Especially if you are a stamina. Lack of finishing blows you lose dps on the enemy if he has stage 3 vampire. And killing the enemy is possible only through the use of ultimates. Unlike the same templar or sorcerer or nb. Stam Varden doesn't have this problem but also has significantly more damage which is what makes him so strong. As for my build, with the buff I have 28 thousand health. I play BG and this amount of health is enough for me. Due to the nerfs in recent patches of gank builds and high resistance to critical damage.

And I apologize for the necromatism, I misunderstood. I was just shocked by the value of 24 thousand heal and 12 thousand armor. By the way, the duration of the armor is 3 seconds, but the same time you weaken your health regeneration. That allows you to take a hit but harder to recover further. I don’t even know why you envy the necromancer ?? warden heals two without any negative effects and applies a dot heal. And the second morph of the necromancer weakens the healing does not give armor and requires a corpse. Well, what can I say? I envy.

Overamera

@Melzo Sorcerers are the weakest class when it comes to pvp healing/defence. Only a bow/stamsorc would be good in a 1v1 scenario or outnumbering someone. If you think magsorc and templar isnt in a bad spot rn then you must be playing another game. Templar has decent healing but cant kill anything anymore unless ur outnumbering someone and spamming radiant. Any good player can join a low mmr bg with any class and go 20-0. So dont base your opinion on on how good a class is out of a bg. There is much more to it.

PhoenixGrey

Melzo wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

[snip]

Melzo wrote: »

The post above that the sorcerer is weak due to the difference in the amount of mana against spell damage is not half true. All because of proc sets. In bg or cp campaigns, a sorcerer uses flat stats that are weaker due to proc sets. If you go to companies without an cp, then the situation will become clearer there, since there the mana of the sorcerer will be considered an s tier. A sorcerer's mana does not lose anything by switching to a non-cp company, but the rest of the classes lose proc sets. Because of this, their damage, resource recovery and defense suffer greatly.

Others have provided mathematical proof that the scaling of magicka required to make sorcerer work defensively is much worse than scaling raw damage for damage and healing in the current game [snip]

Bash sorcerer? This is the first time I've heard of this and I've never seen it. Sorcerers are strong, and staminal sorcerers have the highest damage in 1v1 pvp, not counting the explosive combo nb. Stam sorcerer, even a disabled person will win. The simplest and most efficient class. With the right build, you can roll your face across the keyboard and still win.

[snip]

Sorcerers are NOT strong, they are the weakest class in the game at the moment and have been for multiple patches now. This is FACT. The ONLY reason stamina sorcerer was strong 2 patches ago in U34 was because of 1 single overtuned skill that got gutted in U35 and 1 set that was not working as intended which also got fixed in U35. The class outside of those 2 specific factors was non-existent in pvp all through U34 and onwards.

If you want to see a simple to play class, go watch a nb, a dk, or a warden. Those are the simple to play and strong classes in the current era of the game. Sorcerer requires minimum 5 times the number of inputs of any other class to achieve what other classes can do, both offensively and defensively.

[snip]
[edited for baiting]

I play bg every day against pretty strong players. And something did not notice that the sorceres were weak. Perhaps they are weak in your head. The sorcerer cannot, as before, kill with one combo, but you can also say about all classes. The only class that has huge damage is nb. Perhaps the only weak class is the necromancer nerfed in the last patch, the rest have the same situation. By the way, the warden is not the strongest class. They just put him back on line. Previously, he could only fight in close combat, but now he has normal healing and damage in ranged combat. The strongest class is nb with its inadequate damage, the weakest necromancer and the rest are in the middle. And it doesn't matter if they are stamina or magic classes.

The same can be said about the templar. Many will say that this class is weak, but when the next templar finishes with a score of 15-0. You involuntarily think about it, but did they really weaken it ???

The only thing to complain about is that summon pets do little damage. I'm watching a sorcerer here in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXvep0MfaZA&t=357s and his shield protects almost 11000. My necromancer critical heal is 10000-12000...11000 in pvp. Almost a third of life. I don't know about you, but that's quite a lot. And the damage is pretty good. You can replace the monster set with a pirate set that gives 10 percent protection and then your 11000 mana shield will be affected by an additional 15(5 Percent gives skill on the back panel) percent of the buffs. I have 25 health on a warden and 28 from a buff. Playing with six pieces of light armor and having 5000-6000 spell damage with the new mythic necklace. The only thing that does more damage is the spamming ability, otherwise I still lose in terms of damage. The ability spam deals 3000 to 4000 damage. On average, I gain 500 damage from the ability spam, but the other damage is weaker. By the way, in melee spam, the ability deals damage from 5000-6000 but you have to be too weak a sorcerer if you can't keep your distance from the warden slowed down by 40 percent.... Without the mythical item, the warden's damage is not so strong. But most importantly, you don't have to choose a staff type as a warden in the past or a necromancer.... Warden was given an ice staff and the necro with the staff is dead. Due to the poor balance of class and staff skills.

In general, do the same as in the video, only put on a pirate instead of a zaan and then no one will kill you. Well, only if you do not decide to face the NB face to face.

[snip]

[Edited for Baiting]

You just said that you cannot even face a nb and you still think sorc is strong ?

Just fyi, you can take down top tier mag sorcs with a < lvl 50 nb by just rise and repeat of 2 skills. Nb has always been an s tier class but it doesn’t mean a day 1 noob like me picks it up and turns cyrodil upside down on an unlevelled toon. We can’t have any class better than nightblade and it’s an exclusively nerf free class by design and I get that. However, I would like other classes like mag sorc to be buffed to at least compete with nightblade.

I am not sure at this point how it is even a debate at this point that mag sorc has non existent defense in this game.
ZOS can easily fix it by adding a battle spirit exception on damage shields.

Oh wait…. Battle spirit exceptions are exclusively reserved for nightblade. We have to think about something else

Melzo

I don't even want to reply to the last two posts. I've been playing main pvp on bg for three years. Where already quite rarely come across weak players because of MMR. Mana shield without battle spirit? Push your idea further... I will also use a mana shield with my magic builds. yes everyone will use it. It doesn't matter if you're a sorcerer or not. There will be a funny situation when NB with his mana boost will run around with a mana shield... And he will have more protection than you....

PhoenixGrey

Melzo wrote: »

I don't even want to reply to the last two posts. I've been playing main pvp on bg for three years. Where already quite rarely come across weak players because of MMR. Mana shield without battle spirit? Push your idea further... I will also use a mana shield with my magic builds. yes everyone will use it. It doesn't matter if you're a sorcerer or not. There will be a funny situation when NB with his mana boost will run around with a mana shield... And he will have more protection than you....

That is exactly the point. Magic builds should have an option to use shields with their heals. Mag sorc shields will be stronger due to stacking.

kapachia

Wait. Mana? We have mana?

StaticWave

AdamLAD wrote: »

Xbox EU has the absolute lowest population for any server. We constantly fight the same people each day. There's no fresh new players entering PvP. I went on to XBOX NA and its absolutely littered with players who haven't got a clue. I was crushing good players and 1vXing at 300cp. PC is VASTLY more populated than Xbox NA, which means there's a higher number of players who are not good at all or fresh. It's actually such a luxury. Untill you physically try Xbox EU, you will not understand what I'm talking about. My builds will absolutely work on PC because there's more new people to kill. Simple as that.

I'm a decent stamsorc main on PC-NA and I can't recall the last time I've died to a MagSorc in a 1v2, much less 1v1. And this is coming from a stamsorc which is arguably one of the worst classes in the game lol.

You maybe able to kill bad zerglings on PC servers, but there are also plenty of good players who will give you a hard time. Also, PC builds are a lot more different than console builds because we have access to addons and various things. Trust me, once you go PC you will see the difference.

AdamLAD

StaticWave wrote: »

AdamLAD wrote: »

Xbox EU has the absolute lowest population for any server. We constantly fight the same people each day. There's no fresh new players entering PvP. I went on to XBOX NA and its absolutely littered with players who haven't got a clue. I was crushing good players and 1vXing at 300cp. PC is VASTLY more populated than Xbox NA, which means there's a higher number of players who are not good at all or fresh. It's actually such a luxury. Untill you physically try Xbox EU, you will not understand what I'm talking about. My builds will absolutely work on PC because there's more new people to kill. Simple as that.

I'm a decent stamsorc main on PC-NA and I can't recall the last time I've died to a MagSorc in a 1v2, much less 1v1. And this is coming from a stamsorc which is arguably one of the worst classes in the game lol.

You maybe able to kill bad zerglings on PC servers, but there are also plenty of good players who will give you a hard time. Also, PC builds are a lot more different than console builds because we have access to addons and various things. Trust me, once you go PC you will see the difference.

I've got friends who went onto pc NA and EU and said the opposite. Personally it may just come down to personal experience. The fact still remains though. You guys have a way higher population