Turtle_Bot wrote: »
MetallicMonk wrote: »You can immediately identify the bad players by seeing who thinks sorcerer is good or has any class identity left.
Turtle_Bot wrote: »
TO be fair all nigh-uncounterable abilities like streak should not exist in pvp setting imo, your only option is to basically run immovable pots. I don't care about them streaking to antarctica but getting hit by an unblockable stun is counter to skill based combat. Its not completely unavoidable but you can understand the hate.
Sorcerer exists in broken dmg proc sets and they always make some broken set. IE: Azureblight, Unleashed, Plaguebreak, Savage werewolf, Draugrkin one of those sets. Ofc magsorc is bad but i dont think stamsorc is bad esp they had the best dmg (sometimes even more than total dmg of 3 people in his group)
This is a bit surreal to be reading in 2022.Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Defensively, shields are trash. They were borderline OP like 6 years ago, but currently they are terrible. The best mag sorcs arent even using them anymore.
Judas Helviaryn wrote: »Don't incorporate bugs into your builds, and you won't have [an] issue.
Dragonknights don't deal 10% more damage to enemies at full health. Templars don't have access to any sort of mobility or escape skills like streak. Many Nightblade builds lack self healing. Necromancers don't have damage shields. The Templar execute doesn't stick to targets. Etc, etc, etc.
Classes are a complete package, and should be judged as such.
It's fine to offer criticism or feedback like "I think Sorcs should have a more damaging execute." or "The proc chance of crystal frags feels too small" But you have to take in consideration all aspects of the skill and class. Range, target count, cost, conditions, damage type, passives that affect it, etc.
You're cherry picking examples without presenting an appropriate context.
Is it cherry pickiing to look at the complete set of abilities and coming to the conclusion that sorcs have no real advantage over all other classes - not in one single category of abilities? And don't answer with "the sum is greater than then parts". Hard to argue that, if all parts of other classes are better.
Klingenlied wrote: »Hard disagree.
#1: Balance is not measured in a single skill. The best for every patch likely is the top players performing with those classes in specific content. Thus, "tier lists" for solo, raiding, pvp and so on are a good indicator on overall performance. Not perfect, but generally much more accepted and way more detailed in explanation then a selection of screenshots and a obviously biased explanation with a biased title.
#2: Sorc needn't get more "powerful". Sorc needs more viable playstyles. Everyone got nerfed, that is right. But I deem sorc "relatively" well off in terms of maximum possible performance. I deem Sorc bad in regards to choice.
#3: Try to give some comprehensive information on how you would change what and in which way this would change the class and its overall performance. That is useful. That mind find many players agreeing with you.
Dragonknights don't deal 10% more damage to enemies at full health. Templars don't have access to any sort of mobility or escape skills like streak. Many Nightblade builds lack self healing. Necromancers don't have damage shields. The Templar execute doesn't stick to targets. Etc, etc, etc.
Classes are a complete package, and should be judged as such.
It's fine to offer criticism or feedback like "I think Sorcs should have a more damaging execute." or "The proc chance of crystal frags feels too small" But you have to take in consideration all aspects of the skill and class. Range, target count, cost, conditions, damage type, passives that affect it, etc.
You're cherry picking examples without presenting an appropriate context.
Is it cherry pickiing to look at the complete set of abilities and coming to the conclusion that sorcs have no real advantage over all other classes - not in one single category of abilities? And don't answer with "the sum is greater than then parts". Hard to argue that, if all parts of other classes are better.
There are advantages. Plenty of them.
Mages Wrath:
+ Is ranged.
+ Deals AoE damage.
+ Sticks to targets, no need to maintain line of sight.
+ Automatically applies damage to target when they reach the threshold, without requiring additional input.
- Only works on 20% or lower
- Doesn't scale
Crystal frags:
+ Is ranged
+ Deals very high damage for a ranged skill
+ Has a comparatively low cost, allowing the user to equip more damage/crit/survivability sets, enchants, and buffs, instead of recovery ones.
+ Heals you on hit (Blood Magic passive)
+ Grants Minor Prophecy
- Has a cast time when it doesn't proc
- Average to low performance when not using the proc
And you could write things like this for most other skills presented on the thread. Radiant oppression slows you down while playing an already slow as molasses class. Concealed weapon is melee range. Molten whip deals fire damage, which is the most common damage vulnerability in the game. Biting jabs is AoE.
All of these skills have pros and cons. And you have to look at both to really know if a skill is overpowered or underpowered. Just because they have clear negatives that are worse than other skills doesn't mean they're necessarily "weaker".
And you have to look at the rest of the kit. One element might be designed to be weaker because other elements are stronger.
too long, didn't read
skimmed the first few lines and all i heard was sorc mains crying that their class doesn't have the best survivability, mobility, and damage combo's in the game anymore like they had for a few years of being at the absolute top of the PvP tier list with nothing else coming close
still one of the best classes for endgame pve content too lol
Im not against some Sorcerer changes but youre cherry-picking heavily. Comparing the bad side of apples to good side of oranges and its not helping your case.
Mages is wrath is so bad. That's why every sorc uses it even when they are dual wielding or 2-handing. Seriously who comes up with this stuff? Sorc are absolutely blowing people up out there right now. They are right under Nightblade for damage and can just as easily engage or disengage from fights.
Templars are up there for damage too but that seems to be mostly due to a glitch right now. The other three classes? Might as well make em into a tank or healer as this point.
I liked your work turtle bot. 👍 comparing the abilities of sorcerer to those available outside of sorcerer to show side by side the consistent pattern of underwhelming, seemed pretty sensible to me.
Wouldn't expect better, just as good as.