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Some evidence-based data on how bad sorc is compared to other classes.
Turtle_Bot
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Let's dispel the myths and put an end to the sorc hate once and for all. Let's put real numerical values to the sorc class kit and how it compares to other abilities that are supposed to have the same or similar functions. Let's give the devs some real data they can put into their spreadsheets showing just how bad sorcerer is compared to other classes.
Before we start, all ability screenshots were taken with the exact same build equipped (magma + NMA + willpower), no CP's slotted and a bar layout consisting of 2 class abilities, 2 weapon abilities and 2 fighter's guild abilities. All weapon ability screenshots were also taken using only sorc class. This was to prevent as much variation in abilities and tooltips as possible and allow for true a comparison of abilities without skewing the results through specific buffs from CP or having a different weapon equipped.
First up, the execute.
Mages Wrath, a delayed execute that only starts to work at 20% or lower health, can be dodged, blocked and purged.
Whirling blades, starts much earlier at 50% health and scales up for a higher damage value than mages wrath. Cannot be dodged or purged, is AoE so can execute multiple enemies at once with 1 cast and has 0 delay, you hit the button and enemies take the damage.
Radiant Oppression, starts much earlier again at 50% health, deals at base 4.7k per tick for a total base damage at 50% health of equal to wrath, scales up to 5x the damage for a tooltip that nearly doubles wraths tool tip per second of channeling. Cannot be purged or dodged, can be interrupted, but still deals 1 initial tick of damage on cast.
Impale, ranged just like wrath, deals more damage up front and starts its scaled damage earlier at 25% health and scales for a higher value than wrath does as well at over 15k. cannot be dodged, or purged and is instant cast, no delay.
Killers blade, loses its range, but gains an additional 100% to its scaling, begins its scaling even earlier than impale at 50% and provides a nice burst heal on kill.
Bear is essentially a permanent DoT, that also has a chance to burst + stun as well as providing an execute that scales earlier at 25% and deals nearly 3 times the damage wrath does, granted it does take up both ultimate slots, but that is a lot in 1 skill, especially for a pet that can revive itself if it gets killed unlike the sorc pets.
Executioner, see Killer's blade, just without the heal
poison injection, nearly double the base up front damage, scales up to slightly below low health up front damage, but has a very strong DoT attached to it that also scales. no delay on the initial damage, much harder to dodge and doesn't rely on outside damage instances to trigger its execution range bonus damage.
Next up, spammable.
Crystal frags, has a cast time that can be interrupted, that hard locks the skill for up to 3 seconds if it is interrupted. can be easily dodged due to slow travel time and relies heavily on rng to obtain similar damage values to other spammables. Weapon deals significantly less damage and requires a LA to deal it's damage.
Whip, deals same base damage, with a guaranteed damage increase per cast as well as additional raw damage for a duration. Other morph also has scaling damage and heals. also instant cast
Concealed, slightly lower base damage, (same base damage once the 10% bonus is added in), also inflicts off balance and grants minor expedition for being slotted, surprise attack grants sundered (minor breach) as well as off balance and guaranteed crit with similar base damage to frags.
jabs, higher base damage, also deals AoE damage, and grants major sorcery and brutality as well as inflicting a snare on enemies. Sweeps heals instead of granting sorcery/brutaility.
Dark flare, slightly higher base tool tip, inflicts major defile and grants empower (from skill) and minor sorcery (from passives)
Cliff racer, instant cast, deals less base damage, but applies off balance, and up to 400 raw damage.
Scythe, deals significantly less damage, is AoE, and instant cast, but applies hemorrhaging (reduces enemies max health) as well as off balance and heals with increasing amount for each enemy hit.
Force pulse, slightly lower base damage, instant cast, if enemies are already inflicted with status effect, procs for damage equal to frags hard cast damage. Also has a chance to apply up to 3 status effects.
D swing, same cast time, deals approximately 25% more damage, applies off balance for associated CP damage increases or decent snare and potential stun or the other morph grants empower.
Rapid strikes, deals roughly 33% more base damage, blood thirst deals slightly less than dswing, but heals you.
Focussed aim, deals more base damage, also applies minor breach and has more range. Lethal arrow applies defile instead.
Power slam, deals slightly more base damage, interrupts enemies and also scales off resistances due to being bash damage. Reverb applies a stun.
Art burst deals similar damage, instantly cast and deals scaling damage as well as guaranteed crit the lower health you are. Blood for Blood increases in damage the lower health you are up to +75% extra damage.
Next up, Delayed burst.
Curse, can be purged and blocked has the longest timer out of any delayed burst skill and doesn't apply any additional effects. Prey forces the class into pet builds for pve and is useless in pvp where pets are mostly a liability.
blast bones, significantly higher base damage, which increases by up to 50% and is AoE, other morph applies major and potentially minor defile on targets.
Merc Resolve, a very long duration self-buff that allows for better combo timing, deals almost 100% additional base damage compared to curse, also grants up to 300 raw damage and has a potential heal attached. stamina morph still deals about 50% more damage than curse and also grants up to 300 raw damage for an even longer duration.
Deep fissure deals slightly less up front damage for significantly more back ended damage as well as being AoE and applying both major and minor breach as well as proccing faster than curse does as well. Sub assault deals less damage, but deals it twice as fast as curse does and is also an AoE.
PoTL, deals upfront damage instantly and deals up to 30% more damage than curse as well as applying minor breach and granting minor sorcery, purifying light heals instead of inflicting breach.
Burst heals.
Twilight and dark conversion, both have a cast time on the summon/heal, both abilities get locked for up to 3 seconds if interrupted and the pay off for this downside is a tool tip that is matched by most other classes or a flat heal that doesn't scale, but is still reduced by battle spirit.
meanwhile, dk gain up to 50% more healing when at low health, necros gain a lot of additional mitigation (up to 7-8k armor is not unheard of), nbs gain mending, wardens gain a DoT, stun, and inflict chilled (which also applies maim and brittle) and plar gains cost back if use on low health target and all of these other class heals don't have any cast time on them at all, can be used while block casting or dodge roll casting, scale off damage and cannot be interrupted.
Heals over Time.
Every other class has minimum 2 active abilities that grant passive healing over time, yet I had to go into the passives to find a second one for sorcerer. As for the heals themselves, crit surge requires you to deal critical damage to proc it for a similar heal to ritual (plar) and refreshing path (nb) which get their heals and other effects just by activating those abilities and blood magic requires you to actively cast (and land) a direct dark magic ability (frags) on a target to proc it, meanwhile every other class has a self-heal that they can cast whenever they need that provides passive healing over time, nb and warden even get their own versions of crit surge that only require light/heavy attacks not crit damage to proc those heals on top of the 2 regular HoT abilities they already have.
Utility/CC.
Streak, which grants the best mobility on completely flat open terrain but catches you short on even the tiniest of pebbles/twigs/steps that happen to be in your path. Also, due to being a gap closer, it rarely works in lag and also when trying to use it in enclosed spaces you will more often than not overshoot your target. It also puts you into a very awkward position of behind the enemy, but also facing away from them as well when you try to use it offensively so in the time it takes to turn around and land a combo, they have already broken free and are healing up to full again (especially for console/controller players who don't have the ability to flick the camera around like PC players have).
Negate, which is a great ability to counter a mage meta, but in pvp especially, stamina is king, and stamina completely ignores negate (so much for being an "ultimate ability").
Shields which require you to invest purely into max magicka which means the heal and damage values will go much much lower than shown here.
Rune prison, has a "short delay" of 3 seconds, meanwhile fossilize is instant that also deals damage even if it ends early and either also applies immobilsation or heals. It also goes through block and dodge.
DK's have fossilize, which as stated previously, is basically rune prison, but it actually does something, even if the enemy break free early as well as being instant cast and able to go through block and dodge roll, meaning that stun is all but guaranteed on anyone not immune.
dks also have talons which deal damage and reduce damage dealt as well as a 70% snare on ash cloud/cinder storm and chains to pull enemies out of position and leap which not only stuns but sends enemies flying which creates all sorts of desync issues in lag.
nbs have shade which works in close quarters as well as at different vertical heights (towers, walls etc), not only over horizontal gaps (which has become much worse now than it used to be due to how much damage and speed everyone has access to meaning that vertical LoS and invisibility is much stronger than horizontal LoS that can be easily gap closed) as well as invisibility, both of which work in lag much better than streak does. Not to mention access to major evasion (+20% AoE mitigation) as well as scaling cheaper dodge rolls that can become free
nb has multiple ways to hard CC through off balance medium weave, fear, incap and soul tether.
Necro lacks in CC, but provides a lot of buffs and debuffs as well as group resurrection
Templar has javlin (goes through block and has a fast travel time making it harder to dodge), as well as toppling charge. They also have a lot of snares, buffs, debuffs, synergies and cleanses to help out with group play and utility.
Warden now has snare removal as well as a hard CC in their burst heal as well as multiple ways to snare and immobilise enemies as well as access to self-purge with netch and many mitigation buffs such as protection, evasion, heroism and unique raw damage buffs.
Sorc as a class is in a very bad way at the moment, especially magsorc and especially for pvp. Last patch sorc was getting carried by savage werewolf (bugged set that got fixed in U35) and 1 single overtuned ability in crystal weapon (gutted in U35). Sorc as a class provides very little in the way of unique status effects, buffs and debuffs and the abilities are extremely outdated now. They have lost their uniqueness of being the fast-paced class with everyone gaining access to max movespeed with the swift trait and slottable CP as well as expedition being handed out freely to everyone through race against time. They no longer feel survivable with every other class having much better passive healing and mitigation options that combines with the speed increase everyone got access to. They also don't feel like they do damage outside of finding bugged or broken sets since their damage values are either similar or lower than other comparable abilities as well as not having additional effects included in their abilities like every other class has.
Sorc sometimes feels strong in places like BG's and large groups because in those modes, you often have other allies to make up for the lack of reliable CC, lack of passive healing, lack of effects/buffs/debuffs, which means your raw damage/healing abilities aren't as punished as they would otherwise be. The class also feels strong to players who aren't good at the game, but that is because they don't block, roll dodge, or heal, at which point, every class is going to be strong against those players, but when going up against a semi-competent player, the class more than struggles, it legitimately feels like it's a liability use the class against anyone who is half decent at the game.
There have been many suggestions over the years on ways to improve sorcerer, so I won't re-iterate on those. But here is some numerical data that can hopefully be used by the devs to see just how bad it has gotten for this once fun and engaging class.
The tool tip numbers are almost there on many abilities, but what makes sorcerer so hard to fix is that many of the issues with the abilities are not something that can be solved through numbers alone.
Issues such as:
Skills locking up if interrupted while casting and both burst heals being tied to this detrimental mechanic.
Pets taking up 2 bar slots while not providing the benefits of 2 skills.
Lack of passive healing in the class kit.
Passives being years out of date by now and falling behind even generic passives such as fighter's guild passives (2% increased damage per sorc class ability slotted compared to 3% increased damage per fighter's guild ability slotted and sorcs requiring 2 passives, capacitor and daedric protection, to get the same value that nb gets from 1 passive, refreshing shadows).
Severe lack of reliable utility outside of niche scenarios.
Please note: This post is not to say I want other classes nerfed, I don't want that at all. What I want is to see sorcerer be buffed (see reworked or fixed) to become equal to the other classes without relying on the pets for pve and straight up equal to the other classes for pvp. I also don't want the pets nerfed for those who do enjoy that playstyle but to buff the other playstyles (lightning/dark magic) that sorc used to have to match pets for pve and be viable with other classes in pvp.
Before we start, all ability screenshots were taken with the exact same build equipped (magma + NMA + willpower), no CP's slotted and a bar layout consisting of 2 class abilities, 2 weapon abilities and 2 fighter's guild abilities. All weapon ability screenshots were also taken using only sorc class. This was to prevent as much variation in abilities and tooltips as possible and allow for true a comparison of abilities without skewing the results through specific buffs from CP or having a different weapon equipped.
First up, the execute.
Mages Wrath, a delayed execute that only starts to work at 20% or lower health, can be dodged, blocked and purged.
Whirling blades, starts much earlier at 50% health and scales up for a higher damage value than mages wrath. Cannot be dodged or purged, is AoE so can execute multiple enemies at once with 1 cast and has 0 delay, you hit the button and enemies take the damage.
Radiant Oppression, starts much earlier again at 50% health, deals at base 4.7k per tick for a total base damage at 50% health of equal to wrath, scales up to 5x the damage for a tooltip that nearly doubles wraths tool tip per second of channeling. Cannot be purged or dodged, can be interrupted, but still deals 1 initial tick of damage on cast.
Impale, ranged just like wrath, deals more damage up front and starts its scaled damage earlier at 25% health and scales for a higher value than wrath does as well at over 15k. cannot be dodged, or purged and is instant cast, no delay.
Killers blade, loses its range, but gains an additional 100% to its scaling, begins its scaling even earlier than impale at 50% and provides a nice burst heal on kill.
Bear is essentially a permanent DoT, that also has a chance to burst + stun as well as providing an execute that scales earlier at 25% and deals nearly 3 times the damage wrath does, granted it does take up both ultimate slots, but that is a lot in 1 skill, especially for a pet that can revive itself if it gets killed unlike the sorc pets.
Executioner, see Killer's blade, just without the heal
poison injection, nearly double the base up front damage, scales up to slightly below low health up front damage, but has a very strong DoT attached to it that also scales. no delay on the initial damage, much harder to dodge and doesn't rely on outside damage instances to trigger its execution range bonus damage.
Next up, spammable.
Crystal frags, has a cast time that can be interrupted, that hard locks the skill for up to 3 seconds if it is interrupted. can be easily dodged due to slow travel time and relies heavily on rng to obtain similar damage values to other spammables. Weapon deals significantly less damage and requires a LA to deal it's damage.
Whip, deals same base damage, with a guaranteed damage increase per cast as well as additional raw damage for a duration. Other morph also has scaling damage and heals. also instant cast
Concealed, slightly lower base damage, (same base damage once the 10% bonus is added in), also inflicts off balance and grants minor expedition for being slotted, surprise attack grants sundered (minor breach) as well as off balance and guaranteed crit with similar base damage to frags.
jabs, higher base damage, also deals AoE damage, and grants major sorcery and brutality as well as inflicting a snare on enemies. Sweeps heals instead of granting sorcery/brutaility.
Dark flare, slightly higher base tool tip, inflicts major defile and grants empower (from skill) and minor sorcery (from passives)
Cliff racer, instant cast, deals less base damage, but applies off balance, and up to 400 raw damage.
Scythe, deals significantly less damage, is AoE, and instant cast, but applies hemorrhaging (reduces enemies max health) as well as off balance and heals with increasing amount for each enemy hit.
Force pulse, slightly lower base damage, instant cast, if enemies are already inflicted with status effect, procs for damage equal to frags hard cast damage. Also has a chance to apply up to 3 status effects.
D swing, same cast time, deals approximately 25% more damage, applies off balance for associated CP damage increases or decent snare and potential stun or the other morph grants empower.
Rapid strikes, deals roughly 33% more base damage, blood thirst deals slightly less than dswing, but heals you.
Focussed aim, deals more base damage, also applies minor breach and has more range. Lethal arrow applies defile instead.
Power slam, deals slightly more base damage, interrupts enemies and also scales off resistances due to being bash damage. Reverb applies a stun.
Art burst deals similar damage, instantly cast and deals scaling damage as well as guaranteed crit the lower health you are. Blood for Blood increases in damage the lower health you are up to +75% extra damage.
Next up, Delayed burst.
Curse, can be purged and blocked has the longest timer out of any delayed burst skill and doesn't apply any additional effects. Prey forces the class into pet builds for pve and is useless in pvp where pets are mostly a liability.
blast bones, significantly higher base damage, which increases by up to 50% and is AoE, other morph applies major and potentially minor defile on targets.
Merc Resolve, a very long duration self-buff that allows for better combo timing, deals almost 100% additional base damage compared to curse, also grants up to 300 raw damage and has a potential heal attached. stamina morph still deals about 50% more damage than curse and also grants up to 300 raw damage for an even longer duration.
Deep fissure deals slightly less up front damage for significantly more back ended damage as well as being AoE and applying both major and minor breach as well as proccing faster than curse does as well. Sub assault deals less damage, but deals it twice as fast as curse does and is also an AoE.
PoTL, deals upfront damage instantly and deals up to 30% more damage than curse as well as applying minor breach and granting minor sorcery, purifying light heals instead of inflicting breach.
Burst heals.
Twilight and dark conversion, both have a cast time on the summon/heal, both abilities get locked for up to 3 seconds if interrupted and the pay off for this downside is a tool tip that is matched by most other classes or a flat heal that doesn't scale, but is still reduced by battle spirit.
meanwhile, dk gain up to 50% more healing when at low health, necros gain a lot of additional mitigation (up to 7-8k armor is not unheard of), nbs gain mending, wardens gain a DoT, stun, and inflict chilled (which also applies maim and brittle) and plar gains cost back if use on low health target and all of these other class heals don't have any cast time on them at all, can be used while block casting or dodge roll casting, scale off damage and cannot be interrupted.
Heals over Time.
Every other class has minimum 2 active abilities that grant passive healing over time, yet I had to go into the passives to find a second one for sorcerer. As for the heals themselves, crit surge requires you to deal critical damage to proc it for a similar heal to ritual (plar) and refreshing path (nb) which get their heals and other effects just by activating those abilities and blood magic requires you to actively cast (and land) a direct dark magic ability (frags) on a target to proc it, meanwhile every other class has a self-heal that they can cast whenever they need that provides passive healing over time, nb and warden even get their own versions of crit surge that only require light/heavy attacks not crit damage to proc those heals on top of the 2 regular HoT abilities they already have.
Utility/CC.
Streak, which grants the best mobility on completely flat open terrain but catches you short on even the tiniest of pebbles/twigs/steps that happen to be in your path. Also, due to being a gap closer, it rarely works in lag and also when trying to use it in enclosed spaces you will more often than not overshoot your target. It also puts you into a very awkward position of behind the enemy, but also facing away from them as well when you try to use it offensively so in the time it takes to turn around and land a combo, they have already broken free and are healing up to full again (especially for console/controller players who don't have the ability to flick the camera around like PC players have).
Negate, which is a great ability to counter a mage meta, but in pvp especially, stamina is king, and stamina completely ignores negate (so much for being an "ultimate ability").
Shields which require you to invest purely into max magicka which means the heal and damage values will go much much lower than shown here.
Rune prison, has a "short delay" of 3 seconds, meanwhile fossilize is instant that also deals damage even if it ends early and either also applies immobilsation or heals. It also goes through block and dodge.
DK's have fossilize, which as stated previously, is basically rune prison, but it actually does something, even if the enemy break free early as well as being instant cast and able to go through block and dodge roll, meaning that stun is all but guaranteed on anyone not immune.
dks also have talons which deal damage and reduce damage dealt as well as a 70% snare on ash cloud/cinder storm and chains to pull enemies out of position and leap which not only stuns but sends enemies flying which creates all sorts of desync issues in lag.
nbs have shade which works in close quarters as well as at different vertical heights (towers, walls etc), not only over horizontal gaps (which has become much worse now than it used to be due to how much damage and speed everyone has access to meaning that vertical LoS and invisibility is much stronger than horizontal LoS that can be easily gap closed) as well as invisibility, both of which work in lag much better than streak does. Not to mention access to major evasion (+20% AoE mitigation) as well as scaling cheaper dodge rolls that can become free
nb has multiple ways to hard CC through off balance medium weave, fear, incap and soul tether.
Necro lacks in CC, but provides a lot of buffs and debuffs as well as group resurrection
Templar has javlin (goes through block and has a fast travel time making it harder to dodge), as well as toppling charge. They also have a lot of snares, buffs, debuffs, synergies and cleanses to help out with group play and utility.
Warden now has snare removal as well as a hard CC in their burst heal as well as multiple ways to snare and immobilise enemies as well as access to self-purge with netch and many mitigation buffs such as protection, evasion, heroism and unique raw damage buffs.
Sorc as a class is in a very bad way at the moment, especially magsorc and especially for pvp. Last patch sorc was getting carried by savage werewolf (bugged set that got fixed in U35) and 1 single overtuned ability in crystal weapon (gutted in U35). Sorc as a class provides very little in the way of unique status effects, buffs and debuffs and the abilities are extremely outdated now. They have lost their uniqueness of being the fast-paced class with everyone gaining access to max movespeed with the swift trait and slottable CP as well as expedition being handed out freely to everyone through race against time. They no longer feel survivable with every other class having much better passive healing and mitigation options that combines with the speed increase everyone got access to. They also don't feel like they do damage outside of finding bugged or broken sets since their damage values are either similar or lower than other comparable abilities as well as not having additional effects included in their abilities like every other class has.
Sorc sometimes feels strong in places like BG's and large groups because in those modes, you often have other allies to make up for the lack of reliable CC, lack of passive healing, lack of effects/buffs/debuffs, which means your raw damage/healing abilities aren't as punished as they would otherwise be. The class also feels strong to players who aren't good at the game, but that is because they don't block, roll dodge, or heal, at which point, every class is going to be strong against those players, but when going up against a semi-competent player, the class more than struggles, it legitimately feels like it's a liability use the class against anyone who is half decent at the game.
There have been many suggestions over the years on ways to improve sorcerer, so I won't re-iterate on those. But here is some numerical data that can hopefully be used by the devs to see just how bad it has gotten for this once fun and engaging class.
The tool tip numbers are almost there on many abilities, but what makes sorcerer so hard to fix is that many of the issues with the abilities are not something that can be solved through numbers alone.
Issues such as:
Skills locking up if interrupted while casting and both burst heals being tied to this detrimental mechanic.
Pets taking up 2 bar slots while not providing the benefits of 2 skills.
Lack of passive healing in the class kit.
Passives being years out of date by now and falling behind even generic passives such as fighter's guild passives (2% increased damage per sorc class ability slotted compared to 3% increased damage per fighter's guild ability slotted and sorcs requiring 2 passives, capacitor and daedric protection, to get the same value that nb gets from 1 passive, refreshing shadows).
Severe lack of reliable utility outside of niche scenarios.
Please note: This post is not to say I want other classes nerfed, I don't want that at all. What I want is to see sorcerer be buffed (see reworked or fixed) to become equal to the other classes without relying on the pets for pve and straight up equal to the other classes for pvp. I also don't want the pets nerfed for those who do enjoy that playstyle but to buff the other playstyles (lightning/dark magic) that sorc used to have to match pets for pve and be viable with other classes in pvp.
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Pelanora✭✭✭✭✭This is some great work, and zos should be treating it as a memo establishing a work programme. Get a lead named, get the fixes underway.11 -
Firstmep✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Small correction, radiant can be purged, I dont know where this myth that I cannot be started.2 -
Nexxperumbra✭✭✭Yet sorcs are, and have been the strongest damage class in the game for quite some time. Yes, they're abilities aren't instant, and can be dodged/interrupted, but they still are at the top. Hell, wardens lost their 12% passive, and that only worked by having abilities from that line slotted, sorcs get it from ANY class ability from ANY tree. Also have a 10% dmg passive from full health enemies? I believe this post is primarily pvp focused, but from a pve outlook, they're still pushing 130-140k DPS, which is bonkers compared to other classes after the u35 nerfs. Sorcs could use some QoL, but they're still incredibly strong. Hence the new oakensoul sorc meta. Frags/daedric pray/fury/double pet. Almost perma atro which also grants berserk to everyone in group. It'd be great if they'd separate PvP/PvE but people have been asking that for a looooooong time, and it's never going to happen. To be honest, I'm not going to be surprised if sorc catches more nerfs this Monday considering their pve output is just as much as u34 DPS. A magsorc can put out 30-40k more than a magden can right now. So they either buff wardens and go against their whole sweeping nerfs, or they chop sorcs down to size to better fit the narrative. I hope they go with the former, but I wish you all the best.Edited by Nexxperumbra on September 15, 2022 9:19AM1
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DizzyMac✭✭✭Nexxperumbra wrote: »Yet sorcs are, and have been the strongest damage class in the game for quite some time.
wait.. what?!?! ... sorc has been destroyed. DKs , NBs & wardens have far more damage and healing ceiling range than a sorc in current update (and over the last 2 years) possibly could13 -
FeedbackOnly✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Okay does anyone actually use ball of lighting? Let's compare that to dk skill to block projectiles?
It's not balanced
P.S sooo much scrollingEdited by FeedbackOnly on September 15, 2022 11:58AM4 -
FeedbackOnly✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Sorc has no healing passives. Unlike every other class
Sorc has no damage reduction ultimate that can compare in partly to any other class
Sorc cc is worst tank cc in game as it's radius is too small
Takes 2 bars to hold pets yet they can die in pvp.
Did you see the mines nerf? There's a cool down on mines9 -
Dr_Con✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭range
you ignored amplitude, which increases damage against full hp enemies by 10%, instead focusing on executes. combine amplitude with the twilight tormentor ability to do even more damage to high hp opponents and you quickly see how the role of a dps sorc can be dynamic depending on how you build/play.
you talk about the twilight matriarch's heal but not the clannfear's heal? lol
you neglect to talk about dark deal and mage's guild equillibrium, both of which when combined with the clannfear heal give a sorc tank sort of a limitless supply of resources not comparable to any other class that can tank. Low on stam on your sword and board? swap to your ice staff and cast dark deal. low on magicka while on your ice staff? swap to sword and board and use equillibrium. Yes you don't want to swap if you're taking channeled damage, but you'll always have a split second opportunity to swap and you'll always be able to tank without ever having to heavy attack.
why neglect talking about major brutality and sorcery on a spell that provides more damage and healing and is a pre-buff than the other option from the mage's guild that only grants it as an active effect on a dot?
don't forget the spammable aoe stun which has the other option that lets you get out nearly any encounter you want and absorbs projectiles.
negate bubble is better than you give it credit for in pvp as it can clear siege
sorry but i used to run a 60k sorc tank that could heal to full in 1 or 2 casts, my new sorc hangs around 40-46k hp has more resources can still heal to full in 1 cast if he really needs it, and can get his damage shields pretty high while still providing buffs to the group. Critical surge is not there for my tanks to heal over time- it used to when boundless storm procced every second, but now it's reserved for those sorcs who deal damage more rapidly.
you also conflate the argument by comparing class abilities to weapon abilities (which sorcs get access to as well, mind you) and neglect to show figures on destro staves, but fail to mention that sorcs get to be at a range when they cast their abilities. you then compare mage abilities to class abilities that have a cast time, and abilities where you have to be within 5 meters to do anything.
I can't take this topic too seriously and neither should the devs, there is no chart comparison just a bunch of pictures you pulled from the game and don't take into account morphed abilities, showcasing screenshots of abilities you haven't even bought or used, sorry.
as a person who practices evidenced based medicine, I wouldn't call this evidence based.
I really don't know what this topic is able to prove- it just seems like you want there to be some homogenization with the other classes and to take class distinction from sorc away.FeedbackOnly wrote: »Sorc has no healing passives. Unlike every other class
Sorc has no damage reduction ultimate that can compare in partly to any other class
Sorc cc is worst tank cc in game as it's radius is too small
Takes 2 bars to hold pets yet they can die in pvp.
Did you see the mines nerf? There's a cool down on mines
Sorcs can get damage protection from Undo like everyone else does. Furthermore, they have an active ability that mitigates damage blocked for a few seconds and just having a single pet out improves their hp by 8%.
They have CC that roots (with morphs that can either provide major vitality or damage), damages and roots (mines), and spammable aoe stun. The only thing a sorc needs is a magicka leash, and that's counter-intuitive to their design as they are a ranged class- DKs get that anyways so we are stuck with the fighter's guild one if we want the superior healing and resource management as tank.
They have ultimates that can clear the ground of AOEs and fully stun certain waves of npcs for its full duration
Everyone can die in PVP, literally a skill issue
mines nerf kinda sucked but anyone who depends on someone stepping on a mine 5 times is a bit optimistic. Might suck for those big boss fights or when you got into really tight spaces and could get people to step on most or all of them because of the tight spread, but still, the uses are limited (I would typically put mines on one postern and mage's guild ground stun on another postern when taking a keep, and nothing is preventing me from still doing this)Edited by Dr_Con on September 15, 2022 10:52AM7 -
LordRukia✭✭✭✭This is some strong class envy with a lot of cherry picking.. if sorc is so trash the play one of these godly overpowered classes instead. Also since when can impale not be dodged lol.Edited by LordRukia on September 15, 2022 10:20AM14
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Turtle_Bot✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Nexxperumbra wrote: »Yet sorcs are, and have been the strongest damage class in the game for quite some time. Yes, they're abilities aren't instant, and can be dodged/interrupted, but they still are at the top. Hell, wardens lost their 12% passive, and that only worked by having abilities from that line slotted, sorcs get it from ANY class ability from ANY tree. Also have a 10% dmg passive from full health enemies? I believe this post is primarily pvp focused, but from a pve outlook, they're still pushing 130-140k DPS, which is bonkers compared to other classes after the u35 nerfs. Sorcs could use some QoL, but they're still incredibly strong. Hence the new oakensoul sorc meta. Frags/daedric pray/fury/double pet. Almost perma atro which also grants berserk to everyone in group. It'd be great if they'd separate PvP/PvE but people have been asking that for a looooooong time, and it's never going to happen. To be honest, I'm not going to be surprised if sorc catches more nerfs this Monday considering their pve output is just as much as u34 DPS. A magsorc can put out 30-40k more than a magden can right now. So they either buff wardens and go against their whole sweeping nerfs, or they chop sorcs down to size to better fit the narrative. I hope they go with the former, but I wish you all the best.
It is indeed from primarily a pvp perspective, however it is still valid for wanting to play a no pet build in pve as well (which is much more popular than people think), it would be interesting to see the parse difference when building for no pets compared to building for pets.
As for warden passive, it seems they have noticed that and are buffing it on monday,
advanced species is being changed to giving bonus crit damage and piercing cold will become the new advanced species passive, buffing all damage, not just unique types.5 -
Dr_Con✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Turtle_Bot wrote: »
It's a spammable instant stun aoe that allows you to reposition and cc your opponent and hit them from the rear so they benefit from the backstabber CP. Combined with pressing Tab to lock onto a target with lightning fist, psijic ability, and a prepped shard, this can be a deadly combo. I think that's what he's on about.
streak has been nerfed many times though, it can't be used in BG when you have an objective item on you, it can't be used when you have the scroll, it can't be spammed without your entire mana pool being eaten up. I think the fact that sorcs are supposed to be a ranged class and this is more of an opener is what throws people off. A sorc who can reliably predict when someone's cc immunity is off cooldown can be really annoying. I however enjoy stunning entire ball groups as I see someone's siege circle form around them.1 -
ForumBully✭✭✭✭✭
✭Turtle_Bot wrote: »
It's a spammable instant stun aoe that allows you to reposition and cc your opponent and hit them from the rear so they benefit from the backstabber CP. Combined with pressing Tab to lock onto a target with lightning fist, psijic ability, and a prepped shard, this can be a deadly combo. I think that's what he's on about.
streak has been nerfed many times though, it can't be used in BG when you have an objective item on you, it can't be used when you have the scroll, it can't be spammed without your entire mana pool being eaten up. I think the fact that sorcs are supposed to be a ranged class and this is more of an opener is what throws people off. A sorc who can reliably predict when someone's cc immunity is off cooldown can be really annoying. I however enjoy stunning entire ball groups as I see someone's siege circle form around them.
Thanks to CC immunity, no stun is "spammable"4 -
FluffWit✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I'll just say the way we're expected to play the most iconic class in fantasy RPGs is just... weird and.... not particularly fun.5 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Didnt read every word, but you definitely got the broad strokes.
Sorc is outdated, it has been left in the dust by other classes.
In PVE, the bars are simply too cramped. Pets need reworked. Their spammable is garbage. I HATE crystal frags as a spammable, it might be my least favorite thing in all of ESO. Skills like jabs and flurry being .8 second channels make sense, you are doing damage the whole time. Frags being 8 seconds feels terrible and really messes with your ability to dynamically bar swap.
In PVP, offensively, their burst is hard countered by a single dodge roll. At a minimum make wrath undodgeable. I would make a proc'ed frag undodgable as well. Crystal Frags is an even bigger issue. Landing a hard cast frag on skilled player is near impossible. Rework that skill as well. Defensively, shields are trash. They were borderline OP like 6 years ago, but currently they are terrible. The best mag sorcs arent even using them anymore. This is the classes main defensive tool and they awful. At a minimum, They need to scale off of weapon/spell damage, and they need to be able to crit. Building for shields means you hit like a wet noodle. Building for heals on every other class, means you are also building for offense. While we are at it, sorc healing is trash. Pets take two bar slots and can be killed (with a channel to bring them back) for what BOL does in an instant. Crit surge is a joke in PVP.
This is coming from someone that has a Sorc GO and has done most Vet HM PVE content with one. I wont touch mine now.
#SORCSARETRASHEdited by Oreyn_Bearclaw on September 15, 2022 9:20PM12 -
Turtle_Bot✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭range
you ignored amplitude, which increases damage against full hp enemies by 10%, instead focusing on executes. combine amplitude with the twilight tormentor ability to do even more damage to high hp opponents and you quickly see how the role of a dps sorc can be dynamic depending on how you build/play.
you talk about the twilight matriarch's heal but not the clannfear's heal? lol
you neglect to talk about dark deal and mage's guild equillibrium, both of which when combined with the clannfear heal give a sorc tank sort of a limitless supply of resources not comparable to any other class that can tank. Low on stam on your sword and board? swap to your ice staff and cast dark deal. low on magicka while on your ice staff? swap to sword and board and use equillibrium. Yes you don't want to swap if you're taking channeled damage, but you'll always have a split second opportunity to swap and you'll always be able to tank without ever having to heavy attack.
why neglect talking about major brutality and sorcery on a spell that provides more damage and healing and is a pre-buff than the other option from the mage's guild that only grants it as an active effect on a dot?
don't forget the spammable aoe stun which has the other option that lets you get out nearly any encounter you want and absorbs projectiles.
negate bubble is better than you give it credit for in pvp as it can clear siege
sorry but i used to run a 60k sorc tank that could heal to full in 1 or 2 casts, my new sorc hangs around 40-46k hp has more resources can still heal to full in 1 cast if he really needs it, and can get his damage shields pretty high while still providing buffs to the group. Critical surge is not there for my tanks to heal over time- it used to when boundless storm procced every second, but now it's reserved for those sorcs who deal damage more rapidly.
you also conflate the argument by comparing class abilities to weapon abilities (which sorcs get access to as well, mind you) and neglect to show figures on destro staves, but fail to mention that sorcs get to be at a range when they cast their abilities. you then compare mage abilities to class abilities that have a cast time, and abilities where you have to be within 5 meters to do anything.
I can't take this topic too seriously and neither should the devs, there is no chart comparison just a bunch of pictures you pulled from the game and don't take into account morphed abilities, showcasing screenshots of abilities you haven't even bought or used, sorry.
as a person who practices evidenced based medicine, I wouldn't call this evidence based.
I really don't know what this topic is able to prove- it just seems like you want there to be some homogenization with the other classes and to take class distinction from sorc away.FeedbackOnly wrote: »Sorc has no healing passives. Unlike every other class
Sorc has no damage reduction ultimate that can compare in partly to any other class
Sorc cc is worst tank cc in game as it's radius is too small
Takes 2 bars to hold pets yet they can die in pvp.
Did you see the mines nerf? There's a cool down on mines
Sorcs can get damage protection from Undo like everyone else does. Furthermore, they have an active ability that mitigates damage blocked for a few seconds and just having a single pet out improves their hp by 8%.
They have CC that roots (with morphs that can either provide major vitality or damage), damages and roots (mines), and spammable aoe stun. The only thing a sorc needs is a magicka leash, and that's counter-intuitive to their design as they are a ranged class- DKs get that anyways so we are stuck with the fighter's guild one if we want the superior healing and resource management as tank.
They have ultimates that can clear the ground of AOEs and fully stun certain waves of npcs for its full duration
Everyone can die in PVP, literally a skill issue
mines nerf kinda sucked but anyone who depends on someone stepping on a mine 5 times is a bit optimistic. Might suck for those big boss fights or when you got into really tight spaces and could get people to step on most or all of them because of the tight spread, but still, the uses are limited (I would typically put mines on one postern and mage's guild ground stun on another postern when taking a keep, and nothing is preventing me from still doing this)
Range already has a nerf to its damage compared to melee, supposed to be 10%, but its closer to 25% from equivalent tool tips I posted, dizzy being about 13k frags being about 10k.
As I said in another reply, the post is more from non-pet and pvp perspectives, in those areas especially, sorc is so far behind every other class it's a literal joke now.
I didn't mention the clanfears heal because it was only 6.9k compared to every other burst heal being 10-13k.
I did mention dark deal, go back and re read my original post, I also mentioned how that skill and morphs as well as summoning the pet and casting frags get hard locked for up to 3 seconds if they are interrupted and that sorc is the only class with that punishing mechanic on their healing.
I neglected major brutality and sorcery part of crit surge when I mentioned that ability, because those are standard buffs that every class has access to in their kit, my mention of crit surge was related to being a heal over time, that only procs on dealing crit damage for an equivalent heal to many other HoT abilities that give those heals passively over the duration. It was also only mentioned there because it's the only "HoT" that sorcs have in their class kit.
Tell me you've never played sorc without telling me you've never played sorc. Streak is NOT spammable, it has a fatiguing mechanic which increases its cost significantly every time you cast it within 4 seconds of a previous cast, even building into max mag and sustain you only get 4-5 casts (max 6 if you're lucky) before you're completely out of mag. How is this a spammable when for example spear shards from plar deal more damage, give allies additional burst sustain and has no ramping cost attached to it, or stampede which is one of the best gap closer DoTs in the game with again, no ramping fatigue cost on it either.
negate clearing siege will need to be tested, but even then, that doesn't solve the issue that stamina, which is everywhere in pvp, just completely ignores it.
I compared class abilities to comparable weapon and other abilities because it shows that it's often better to just run the weapon abilities over the class abilities as they do so much more than just deal damage only. I also did show destro staves, force pulse was in the spammable section (in case you missed it). I also covered the fact that range is much less powerful now (especially in pvp) where everyone has free access to maximum movement speed, snare removal and gap closers allowing them to easily get on top of ranged enemies. I compared frags to instant cast abilities because sorc has no instant cast spammable to compare to other abilities with. weapon is not good, it has significantly lower damage than every other spammable in the game.
I'm sorry, but I cannot take your reply seriously anymore and neither should the devs, you have shown that you didn't even bother to read my entire post before commenting. You have also let your bias of running a pve sorc tank cloud your judgement on severe issues the class has in other areas.
I just hope I never have to rely on your medical services, it looks like you barely read the first paragraph before jumping to conclusions and applying your bias in your reply.
If you had read my entire post before jumping to conclusions, you would have understood a lot more of what I was raising and what I wanted for the class, I want options for sorcs for pve that is not just pets only and for the class to be on the same power level as the other classes when it comes to pvp.Edited by Turtle_Bot on September 16, 2022 5:43AM9 -
Turtle_Bot✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
And nefas showed dks and nbs hitting for 110k+ on the pts before the dummy got buffed to fix the visibly low dps values that were caused by U35. Those numbers would be equivalent to around 135k dps on the modern dummy). Parse videos like this also don't show any of the defensive weaknesses the class has, and it has many.12 -
Arunei✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Dude, calm down, it's a joke. "Nerf Sorc/Streak" is a meme and has been for years, literally none of the devs are going to look at that and go "oh yes we need to nerf that Skill immediately because some person on the forum said to!".Turtle_Bot wrote: »Character List [RP and PvE]:Stands-Against-Death: Argonian Magplar Healer - Crafter
Krisiel: Redguard Stamsorc DPS - Literally crazy Werewolf, no like legit insane. She nuts
Kiju Veran: Khajiit Stamblade DPS - Ex-Fighters Guild Suthay who likes to punch things, nicknamed Tinykat
Niralae Elsinal: Altmer Stamsorc DPS - Young Altmer with way too much Magicka
Sarah Lacroix: Breton Magsorc DPS - Fledgling Vampire who drinks too much water
Slondor: Nord Tankblade - TESified verson of Slenderman
Marius Vastino: Imperial <insert role here> - Sarah's apathetic sire who likes to monologue
Delthor Rellenar: Dunmer Magknight DPS - Sarah's ex who's a certified psychopath
Lirawyn Calatare: Altmer Magplar Healer - Traveling performer and bard who's 101% vanilla bean
Gondryn Beldeau: Breton Tankplar - Sarah's Mages Guild mentor and certified badass old person
Gwendolyn Jenelle: Breton Magplar Healer - Friendly healer with a coffee addiction
Soliril Larethian- Altmer Magblade DPS - Blind alchemist who uses animals to see and brews plagues in his spare time
Tevril Rallenar: Dunmer Stamcro DPS - Delthor's "special" younger brother who raises small animals as friends
Celeroth Calatare: Bosmer <insert role here> - Shapeshifting Bosmer with enough sass to fill Valenwood
PC - NA - EP - CP1000+
Avid RPer. Hit me up in-game @Ras_Lei if you're interested in getting together for some arr-pee shenanigans!5 -
Turtle_Bot✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭This is some strong class envy with a lot of cherry picking.. if sorc is so trash the play one of these godly overpowered classes instead. Also since when can impale not be dodged lol.
Nice bait, but here's the truth. For pvp and playing without pets, the class is uber trash now compared to before where you could at least make it work, even if only in niche builds/scenarios. Also, I am playing other classes now, I've benched my magsorc from ALL pvp and the only reason she gets used in pve is because my stamplar got gutted as well and I don't have builds on other classes for pve. I am playing magblade and stamden for pvp this patch.7 -
Turtle_Bot✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Dude, calm down, it's a joke. "Nerf Sorc/Streak" is a meme and has been for years, literally none of the devs are going to look at that and go "oh yes we need to nerf that Skill immediately because some person on the forum said to!".Turtle_Bot wrote: »
Sorry about that, but with how much actual hatred there is for sorc on these forums by players who aren't good at the game or just flat out refuse to play the class at all or even learn how to counter it, it's actually become hard to tell when someone is joking about the class or not.8 -
Turtle_Bot✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Turtle_Bot wrote: »Nexxperumbra wrote: »Yet sorcs are, and have been the strongest damage class in the game for quite some time. Yes, they're abilities aren't instant, and can be dodged/interrupted, but they still are at the top. Hell, wardens lost their 12% passive, and that only worked by having abilities from that line slotted, sorcs get it from ANY class ability from ANY tree. Also have a 10% dmg passive from full health enemies? I believe this post is primarily pvp focused, but from a pve outlook, they're still pushing 130-140k DPS, which is bonkers compared to other classes after the u35 nerfs. Sorcs could use some QoL, but they're still incredibly strong. Hence the new oakensoul sorc meta. Frags/daedric pray/fury/double pet. Almost perma atro which also grants berserk to everyone in group. It'd be great if they'd separate PvP/PvE but people have been asking that for a looooooong time, and it's never going to happen. To be honest, I'm not going to be surprised if sorc catches more nerfs this Monday considering their pve output is just as much as u34 DPS. A magsorc can put out 30-40k more than a magden can right now. So they either buff wardens and go against their whole sweeping nerfs, or they chop sorcs down to size to better fit the narrative. I hope they go with the former, but I wish you all the best.
It is indeed from primarily a pvp perspective, however it is still valid for wanting to play a no pet build in pve as well (which is much more popular than people think), it would be interesting to see the parse difference when building for no pets compared to building for pets.
As for warden passive, it seems they have noticed that and are buffing it on monday,
advanced species is being changed to giving bonus crit damage and piercing cold will become the new advanced species passive, buffing all damage, not just unique types.
update on this, it looks like its from the pts notes for U36, so not as soon as monday, but they are buffing warden dps passives significantly and soon2 -
Arunei✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Normally if people post just saying "nerf Sorc" or "nerf Streak" they're meme'ing, it's the ones who go beyond that to say "because so and so" that are the ones you want to have a serious discussion with.Turtle_Bot wrote: »
Dude, calm down, it's a joke. "Nerf Sorc/Streak" is a meme and has been for years, literally none of the devs are going to look at that and go "oh yes we need to nerf that Skill immediately because some person on the forum said to!".Turtle_Bot wrote: »
Sorry about that, but with how much actual hatred there is for sorc on these forums by players who aren't good at the game or just flat out refuse to play the class at all or even learn how to counter it, it's actually become hard to tell when someone is joking about the class or not.Character List [RP and PvE]:Stands-Against-Death: Argonian Magplar Healer - Crafter
Krisiel: Redguard Stamsorc DPS - Literally crazy Werewolf, no like legit insane. She nuts
Kiju Veran: Khajiit Stamblade DPS - Ex-Fighters Guild Suthay who likes to punch things, nicknamed Tinykat
Niralae Elsinal: Altmer Stamsorc DPS - Young Altmer with way too much Magicka
Sarah Lacroix: Breton Magsorc DPS - Fledgling Vampire who drinks too much water
Slondor: Nord Tankblade - TESified verson of Slenderman
Marius Vastino: Imperial <insert role here> - Sarah's apathetic sire who likes to monologue
Delthor Rellenar: Dunmer Magknight DPS - Sarah's ex who's a certified psychopath
Lirawyn Calatare: Altmer Magplar Healer - Traveling performer and bard who's 101% vanilla bean
Gondryn Beldeau: Breton Tankplar - Sarah's Mages Guild mentor and certified badass old person
Gwendolyn Jenelle: Breton Magplar Healer - Friendly healer with a coffee addiction
Soliril Larethian- Altmer Magblade DPS - Blind alchemist who uses animals to see and brews plagues in his spare time
Tevril Rallenar: Dunmer Stamcro DPS - Delthor's "special" younger brother who raises small animals as friends
Celeroth Calatare: Bosmer <insert role here> - Shapeshifting Bosmer with enough sass to fill Valenwood
PC - NA - EP - CP1000+
Avid RPer. Hit me up in-game @Ras_Lei if you're interested in getting together for some arr-pee shenanigans!6 -
Tannus15✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭The only thing that sucks about sorc right now is that bound armaments got over nerfed.
for a little while there you could choose between running bound armaments or frag proc, rng vs stack building.
then bound armaments took a heavy nerf and lost all desirability on a mag build so it's only frag proc, which also kills crystal weapon since you need the other morph. taking away the light attack damage bonus as well as nerfing the BA damage into the ground made it basically useless.3 -
Nexxperumbra✭✭✭Turtle_Bot wrote: »Turtle_Bot wrote: »Nexxperumbra wrote: »Yet sorcs are, and have been the strongest damage class in the game for quite some time. Yes, they're abilities aren't instant, and can be dodged/interrupted, but they still are at the top. Hell, wardens lost their 12% passive, and that only worked by having abilities from that line slotted, sorcs get it from ANY class ability from ANY tree. Also have a 10% dmg passive from full health enemies? I believe this post is primarily pvp focused, but from a pve outlook, they're still pushing 130-140k DPS, which is bonkers compared to other classes after the u35 nerfs. Sorcs could use some QoL, but they're still incredibly strong. Hence the new oakensoul sorc meta. Frags/daedric pray/fury/double pet. Almost perma atro which also grants berserk to everyone in group. It'd be great if they'd separate PvP/PvE but people have been asking that for a looooooong time, and it's never going to happen. To be honest, I'm not going to be surprised if sorc catches more nerfs this Monday considering their pve output is just as much as u34 DPS. A magsorc can put out 30-40k more than a magden can right now. So they either buff wardens and go against their whole sweeping nerfs, or they chop sorcs down to size to better fit the narrative. I hope they go with the former, but I wish you all the best.
It is indeed from primarily a pvp perspective, however it is still valid for wanting to play a no pet build in pve as well (which is much more popular than people think), it would be interesting to see the parse difference when building for no pets compared to building for pets.
As for warden passive, it seems they have noticed that and are buffing it on monday,
advanced species is being changed to giving bonus crit damage and piercing cold will become the new advanced species passive, buffing all damage, not just unique types.
update on this, it looks like its from the pts notes for U36, so not as soon as monday, but they are buffing warden dps passives significantly and soon
Actually, these changes are even worse. Changing it from penetration to crit damage doesn't do anything, as people are already over crit cap, and the other passive change is forcing wardens to run a frost staff to benefit from the damage boost. Frost is already the weakest option, and it also costs more to sustain. Unless you want to run a brittle den (only 1 is worth having in the group, and even barely, considering a tank with naazaray can upkeep Brittle). These changes suck, and they're extremely frustrating. #magdenmain2 -
Turtle_Bot✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Nexxperumbra wrote: »Turtle_Bot wrote: »Turtle_Bot wrote: »Nexxperumbra wrote: »Yet sorcs are, and have been the strongest damage class in the game for quite some time. Yes, they're abilities aren't instant, and can be dodged/interrupted, but they still are at the top. Hell, wardens lost their 12% passive, and that only worked by having abilities from that line slotted, sorcs get it from ANY class ability from ANY tree. Also have a 10% dmg passive from full health enemies? I believe this post is primarily pvp focused, but from a pve outlook, they're still pushing 130-140k DPS, which is bonkers compared to other classes after the u35 nerfs. Sorcs could use some QoL, but they're still incredibly strong. Hence the new oakensoul sorc meta. Frags/daedric pray/fury/double pet. Almost perma atro which also grants berserk to everyone in group. It'd be great if they'd separate PvP/PvE but people have been asking that for a looooooong time, and it's never going to happen. To be honest, I'm not going to be surprised if sorc catches more nerfs this Monday considering their pve output is just as much as u34 DPS. A magsorc can put out 30-40k more than a magden can right now. So they either buff wardens and go against their whole sweeping nerfs, or they chop sorcs down to size to better fit the narrative. I hope they go with the former, but I wish you all the best.
It is indeed from primarily a pvp perspective, however it is still valid for wanting to play a no pet build in pve as well (which is much more popular than people think), it would be interesting to see the parse difference when building for no pets compared to building for pets.
As for warden passive, it seems they have noticed that and are buffing it on monday,
advanced species is being changed to giving bonus crit damage and piercing cold will become the new advanced species passive, buffing all damage, not just unique types.
update on this, it looks like its from the pts notes for U36, so not as soon as monday, but they are buffing warden dps passives significantly and soon
Actually, these changes are even worse. Changing it from penetration to crit damage doesn't do anything, as people are already over crit cap, and the other passive change is forcing wardens to run a frost staff to benefit from the damage boost. Frost is already the weakest option, and it also costs more to sustain. Unless you want to run a brittle den (only 1 is worth having in the group, and even barely, considering a tank with naazaray can upkeep Brittle). These changes suck, and they're extremely frustrating. #magdenmain
I doubt the changes are that bad, having the additional crit damage allows you to build into more raw damage/sustain/crit chance while still keeping crit damage at/near the cap. As for the piercing cold passive, it still has a base buff that will work without the frost staff, it just gets more bonus damage if a frost staff is also equipped.
Quote: Piercing cold will be moving away from enhancing specific damage types, and will instead enhance overall damage that will further increase when using an ice staff.
so the passive will buff damage without an Ice staff equipped, but it will buff damage even more if an ice staff is also equipped.Edited by Turtle_Bot on September 16, 2022 5:43AM1 -
Tannus15✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Turtle_Bot wrote: »Nexxperumbra wrote: »Turtle_Bot wrote: »Turtle_Bot wrote: »Nexxperumbra wrote: »Yet sorcs are, and have been the strongest damage class in the game for quite some time. Yes, they're abilities aren't instant, and can be dodged/interrupted, but they still are at the top. Hell, wardens lost their 12% passive, and that only worked by having abilities from that line slotted, sorcs get it from ANY class ability from ANY tree. Also have a 10% dmg passive from full health enemies? I believe this post is primarily pvp focused, but from a pve outlook, they're still pushing 130-140k DPS, which is bonkers compared to other classes after the u35 nerfs. Sorcs could use some QoL, but they're still incredibly strong. Hence the new oakensoul sorc meta. Frags/daedric pray/fury/double pet. Almost perma atro which also grants berserk to everyone in group. It'd be great if they'd separate PvP/PvE but people have been asking that for a looooooong time, and it's never going to happen. To be honest, I'm not going to be surprised if sorc catches more nerfs this Monday considering their pve output is just as much as u34 DPS. A magsorc can put out 30-40k more than a magden can right now. So they either buff wardens and go against their whole sweeping nerfs, or they chop sorcs down to size to better fit the narrative. I hope they go with the former, but I wish you all the best.
It is indeed from primarily a pvp perspective, however it is still valid for wanting to play a no pet build in pve as well (which is much more popular than people think), it would be interesting to see the parse difference when building for no pets compared to building for pets.
As for warden passive, it seems they have noticed that and are buffing it on monday,
advanced species is being changed to giving bonus crit damage and piercing cold will become the new advanced species passive, buffing all damage, not just unique types.
update on this, it looks like its from the pts notes for U36, so not as soon as monday, but they are buffing warden dps passives significantly and soon
Actually, these changes are even worse. Changing it from penetration to crit damage doesn't do anything, as people are already over crit cap, and the other passive change is forcing wardens to run a frost staff to benefit from the damage boost. Frost is already the weakest option, and it also costs more to sustain. Unless you want to run a brittle den (only 1 is worth having in the group, and even barely, considering a tank with naazaray can upkeep Brittle). These changes suck, and they're extremely frustrating. #magdenmain
I doubt the changes are that bad, having the additional crit damage allows you to build into more raw damage/sustain/crit chance while still keeping crit damage at/near the cap. As for the piercing cold passive, it still has a base buff that will work without the frost staff, it just gets more bonus damage if a frost staff is also equipped.
Quote: Piercing cold will be moving away from enhancing specific damage types, and will instead enhance overall damage that will further increase when using an ice staff.
so the passive will buff damage without an Ice staff equipped, but it will buff damage even more if an ice staff is also equipped.
the one thing i've learned is that warden mains are never happy. even when things are good for them they still complain.6 -
MetallicMonk✭✭✭✭✭You can immediately identify the bad players by seeing who thinks sorcerer is good or has any class identity left.9
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rdk3DORk5LM