What is YOUR fix for the fake tank/fake healer issue?

endgamesmug

Rowjoh wrote: »

endgamesmug wrote: »

Rowjoh wrote: »

I started on xbox in 2015 no im not new to eso, and there was great enthusiastic people and guilds there. Pc is a different environment and i have adapted, i have been on pc for around 2 years or more so have tried plenty of guilds. Dungeons interest me greatly especially vet dlc, there is alot of emphasis on trials on pc this does not interest me. I am not defeated i have adapted and created my own fun thankyou very much, it has reinvigorated my interest in soloing so there is not a downside here, despite the initial disappointment in the nature of guilds on pc.

You are contradicting yourself.

When I said that PC is awash with guilds you questioned that and replied: 'Certainly hasnt been my experience since coming from xbox but sounds like you've had a better experience in this wash of guilds you describe'.

but now you admit: ' I have been on pc for around 2 years or more so have tried plenty of guilds'.

You also infer that PC is different to xbox in negative way, and say that you have had to adapt and create your own fun, yet PC has always had and continues to have a bigger population with a more mature player demographic than xbox, and also has a very enthusiastic community with brilliant guilds.

You also said '...when i have found the odd guild either through finder or zonechat it turns out to be dead with no one chatting'.

However it's common knowledge that there are plenty of very active easy-to-find, easy-to-join guilds where players run vet and vet dlc dungeons on a regular basis - I've just checked the Guild Recruitment section (both PC servers) and they are awash with active guilds looking for players for every type of content.

It sounds like you have just blindly joined guilds expecting them to cater to what you're interested in doing without checking them out first.

So I repeat, if you do nothing else, look through the Guild Recruitment section of this forum, make a little short-list of which ones sound up your street and check with them that they do what you want to do and ask for an invite if you're happy.

[snip][/quote]

[/quote]

?

[edited to remove quote]

MidniteOwl1913

Agenericname wrote: »

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

Kusto wrote: »

It's all about them transmutes. I'm over 2k cp and don't care about xp. But I always need alot of transmutes because I do vet raiding and play all roles. And Zos keeps changing gear and combat every patch so I need to keep fake tanking random normals. If vets dropped double then I would run them instead.
But that would create another problem, way longer queues for normal because not enough tanks. People who complain about fakes think about that for a moment. Alot of posts here say that 9 out of 10 dungeons they got a fake tank. If most of those "tanks" wouldn't queue anymore then YOU would wait for hours.

Okay maybe I would wait, but I'd really like to know what having a real tank is like. I almost never see it.

Kusto wrote: »

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

Kusto wrote: »

It's all about them transmutes. I'm over 2k cp and don't care about xp. But I always need alot of transmutes because I do vet raiding and play all roles. And Zos keeps changing gear and combat every patch so I need to keep fake tanking random normals. If vets dropped double then I would run them instead.
But that would create another problem, way longer queues for normal because not enough tanks. People who complain about fakes think about that for a moment. Alot of posts here say that 9 out of 10 dungeons they got a fake tank. If most of those "tanks" wouldn't queue anymore then YOU would wait for hours.

Okay maybe I would wait, but I'd really like to know what having a real tank is like. I almost never see it.

Then do vet. I've been playing for years and only seen 2 fake tanks. There's so many fakes in normals because they simply don't need real one.

As someone who tanks the content a good bit, normals are pretty boring. The content doesnt need a real tank and it really about the last place a tank would go if they wanted to be engaged with the content. Exceptions for newer players/tanks of course.

Seriously, try vet.

I do try vet every once in a while (on my healer) and I'm struck by how much more smoothly things go. And the blessing of no speed running is amazing. But the learning curve is steep. Normal doesn't do jack to make you ready. I read the walkthrus and that helps, but there are just so many details that are wildly different... Or maybe it's just they are so much more impactful it feels completely different.

Still trying though.

MidniteOwl1913

The fakes are getting worse. Tonight out of 6 dungeons only one had a real healer and a real tank.

Two were so bad I just left. I usually just put up with it because it's not fair to the other two people, but I think I've just had it with the fakers. The ones where I did just stick out just weren't any fun. I'm just so sick of the "tank" (mostly tanks, healers sometimes) who runs and runs and runs ahead leaving the rest of the group. Often dragging a DPS-killing mob in their wake.

I still have no real idea other than removing the rewards on normal to stop it though. I wish I did.

Agenericname

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

Kusto wrote: »

It's all about them transmutes. I'm over 2k cp and don't care about xp. But I always need alot of transmutes because I do vet raiding and play all roles. And Zos keeps changing gear and combat every patch so I need to keep fake tanking random normals. If vets dropped double then I would run them instead.
But that would create another problem, way longer queues for normal because not enough tanks. People who complain about fakes think about that for a moment. Alot of posts here say that 9 out of 10 dungeons they got a fake tank. If most of those "tanks" wouldn't queue anymore then YOU would wait for hours.

Okay maybe I would wait, but I'd really like to know what having a real tank is like. I almost never see it.

Kusto wrote: »

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

Kusto wrote: »

It's all about them transmutes. I'm over 2k cp and don't care about xp. But I always need alot of transmutes because I do vet raiding and play all roles. And Zos keeps changing gear and combat every patch so I need to keep fake tanking random normals. If vets dropped double then I would run them instead.
But that would create another problem, way longer queues for normal because not enough tanks. People who complain about fakes think about that for a moment. Alot of posts here say that 9 out of 10 dungeons they got a fake tank. If most of those "tanks" wouldn't queue anymore then YOU would wait for hours.

Okay maybe I would wait, but I'd really like to know what having a real tank is like. I almost never see it.

Then do vet. I've been playing for years and only seen 2 fake tanks. There's so many fakes in normals because they simply don't need real one.

As someone who tanks the content a good bit, normals are pretty boring. The content doesnt need a real tank and it really about the last place a tank would go if they wanted to be engaged with the content. Exceptions for newer players/tanks of course.

Seriously, try vet.

I do try vet every once in a while (on my healer) and I'm struck by how much more smoothly things go. And the blessing of no speed running is amazing. But the learning curve is steep. Normal doesn't do jack to make you ready. I read the walkthrus and that helps, but there are just so many details that are wildly different... Or maybe it's just they are so much more impactful it feels completely different.

Still trying though.

Its certainly more punishing in a lot of cases. I think the sometimes staggering increase in difficulty is what puts a lot of people off about trying them.

What Ive found is that there are some expectations in vet, but mechanics, especially on more complex fights, arent always one of them and the people that run them tend to be a little more patient. Its not that hard to explain the mechanics of a fight to a player that has a decent grasp on the game/character.

Most really dont do much to prepare you. The jump in difficulty between non-HM and HM can also be pretty significant in some cases. I dont view it as a bad thing on its own, but I can see how people can be apprehensive about them. A little patience goes a long way. Being able to walk away politely does as well.

Good luck!

Sir_Gentleman777

As long as the fakes can actually do damage and don't run, or even worse...stand, stupidly around i don't care, especially not for RNDs. And if they would at least announce it before the run beginns so you know what to expect, it would be marvellous. I just hate if people rush senseless through dungeons with no regard for anybody and in Rambo Ninja Style, or if they don't do anything at all, except getting carried. I don't even mind carries that much, as long as the player is at least attempting to take part in the run. Even 10 DPS is better than 0 DPS. And all this rushing gets really annoying. It is like people trying to show how great they are by attempting to pull 100 ads and everybody dies because of this crap. This way the dungeons take much longer than they should. If you just keep moving and kill everything in front of you, you are in 99.9% of all cases faster, than these stupidly rushed runs

Iselin

I have zero trust that any fixes leveraging the group finder would ever work since that part of the game seems to be held together with spit and chewing gum.

And as long as most normal dungeons are trivially easy with a few DLC dungeon exceptions, and the rewards for gold, XP and transmute crystals are the same for the normal or vet daily, many who can solo those normal dungeons in their sleep will still queue for those normals because they're the quickest and if there's one thing that the jaded vets want out of the game is the fastest and easiest way to get whatever rewards they're after.

So... I see only one possible "fix" and that is to incentivize running the daily in vet mode hugely compared to normal and by that, I mean triple or quadruple the XP, gold and the transmute stones.

that wouldn't be a total and permanent fix but it would go a long way toward making normal dungeon runs, which is where almost all of the faking happens, much better.

Rowjoh

@endgamesmug
[/quote] [snip] /quote]

how so ? I'm only trying to help you.

You replied to my original comment appearing to dispute the fact that there are a large number of decent active guilds that regularly run all types of vet content.

Then when I respectfully and politely back up my comment and also give you helpful info on exactly how to easily find and select the best ones, you ignore it and continue to express disappointment, frustration and difficulty with joining guilds.

I'm merely giving you factual information that is contrary to your experience and perception and pointing you in the direction of the plethera of active decent guilds where players regularly run vet dungeons which is what you say you are most interested in doing.

[edited to remove quote]

endgamesmug

Rowjoh wrote: »

endgamesmug wrote: »

Rowjoh wrote: »

I started on xbox in 2015 no im not new to eso, and there was great enthusiastic people and guilds there. Pc is a different environment and i have adapted, i have been on pc for around 2 years or more so have tried plenty of guilds. Dungeons interest me greatly especially vet dlc, there is alot of emphasis on trials on pc this does not interest me. I am not defeated i have adapted and created my own fun thankyou very much, it has reinvigorated my interest in soloing so there is not a downside here, despite the initial disappointment in the nature of guilds on pc.

You are contradicting yourself.

When I said that PC is awash with guilds you questioned that and replied: 'Certainly hasnt been my experience since coming from xbox but sounds like you've had a better experience in this wash of guilds you describe'.

but now you admit: ' I have been on pc for around 2 years or more so have tried plenty of guilds'.

You also infer that PC is different to xbox in negative way, and say that you have had to adapt and create your own fun, yet PC has always had and continues to have a bigger population with a more mature player demographic than xbox, and also has a very enthusiastic community with brilliant guilds.

You also said '...when i have found the odd guild either through finder or zonechat it turns out to be dead with no one chatting'.

However it's common knowledge that there are plenty of very active easy-to-find, easy-to-join guilds where players run vet and vet dlc dungeons on a regular basis - I've just checked the Guild Recruitment section (both PC servers) and they are awash with active guilds looking for players for every type of content.

It sounds like you have just blindly joined guilds expecting them to cater to what you're interested in doing without checking them out first.

So I repeat, if you do nothing else, look through the Guild Recruitment section of this forum, make a little short-list of which ones sound up your street and check with them that they do what you want to do and ask for an invite if you're happy.

[snip][/quote]

[/quote]

?

Rowjoh wrote: »

@endgamesmug

[snip] /quote]

how so ? I'm only trying to help you.

You replied to my original comment appearing to dispute the fact that there are a large number of decent active guilds that regularly run all types of vet content.

Then when I respectfully and politely back up my comment and also give you helpful info on exactly how to easily find and select the best ones, you ignore it and continue to express disappointment, frustration and difficulty with joining guilds.

I'm merely giving you factual information that is contrary to your experience and perception and pointing you in the direction of the plethera of active decent guilds where players regularly run vet dungeons which is what you say you are most interested in doing.
[/quote]

[snip]
[edited for baiting & to remove quote]

MidniteOwl1913

Iselin wrote: »

So... I see only one possible "fix" and that is to incentivize running the daily in vet mode hugely compared to normal and by that, I mean triple or quadruple the XP, gold and the transmute stones.

that wouldn't be a total and permanent fix but it would go a long way toward making normal dungeon runs, which is where almost all of the faking happens, much better.

Yes. I think this is really the only practical fix. And I do hope ZOS does *something* about it. It's ruining all the fun of dungeons for me.

Androrix

For normal dungeons have no roles. They really are not necessary.

ForzaRammer

gddanielb16_ESO wrote: »

'm a regular player; 2700'ish CP; played since beta.

[snip] Having been sticker book hunting for the past month (and left with DLC's only), I'm seeing about half coming in as fake tanks. Ask nicely for a taunt and you'll more often than not get told off (and pretty much never get compliance). Typically you'll get a "get good" or this is "trivially easy, why are you complaining?". They do NOT represent the ESO community, by and large. Although there's the occasional CP100, most are high levels with high DPS skills. They do not appreciate that aggro for casters, like healers, is fine for a short while, but they can't sustain blocking or block-casting for long. The healer then can't keep newer players alive effectively. Of course there's no boss control, so the fight moves constantly. It can get miserable for the non-fake-tank players quite often.

For those experienced ESO players: imagine this is your "new player" introduction to groups. I can't emphasize this enough. Absurd drama & chaos, and clearly caused by folks more concerned about themselves and their own goals than other players. I'd be shocked if new players find any of this "fun".

A simple solution? @name reporting. 10 of those for different days; different players and/or dungeons = a month suspension ... or "two months no dungeons". There are indeed better recommendations I've read on how to manage this, but this is simple. Different days means no ganging up. This is the "this is how angry I am" solution.

I also firmly believe much could be done to help tanking in ESO.

I also think another simple (partial) solution is to prohibit anyone not using a shield in one slot AND a taunt from queueing as tank --- and staying that way to the end of the dungeon.

Something must be done for newer players to prevent them from suffering this situation. Please. For the good of the game.

[Edited for Baiting]

Good job on necro some 3 month old post

zaria

Androrix wrote: »

For normal dungeons have no roles. They really are not necessary.

Agree, now for harder normal DLC ones having roles help as they might be harder than easy vet dungeons.
Still remember that 50k tank getting one shot in March of sacrifices normal on the three mob boss, it was interesting.
For the RND guild runs I do you select role and specify if real, any magic build is also an healer with my setup.

For vet runs, you can do none role depending on team, was in an dlc clearing group, we did CoA 2 hm with 4 dd,
granted I was healer but no healing staff, just two templar heals.
I refused to use dressing room to shift to resto staff as tank did not shift to real tank.
It worked, it tend to not work in pugs but years since I puged.

Sidonius

They should make a system where you have an option to take your companions as your group (kinda like FFXIV)

NoticeMeArkay

If a fake heal or fake tank actively drain the fun out of the dungeon experience for the rest of the group, I state the facts and start a /votekick. If that doesn't help, I leave. As easy as it is, I don't spend tons of hours and mats to bring something useful to the table only to carry a leech through what was originally supposed to be a fun adventure and turns thanks to those into a frustrating waste of lifetime.

MidniteOwl1913

Androrix wrote: »

For normal dungeons have no roles. They really are not necessary.

Maybe, for experienced players, but base game normal is where people start. How will they learn the structure if there are no roles?

MidniteOwl1913

NoticeMeArkay wrote: »

If a fake heal or fake tank actively drain the fun out of the dungeon experience for the rest of the group, I state the facts and start a /votekick. If that doesn't help, I leave. As easy as it is, I don't spend tons of hours and mats to bring something useful to the table only to carry a leech through what was originally supposed to be a fun adventure and turns thanks to those into a frustrating waste of lifetime.

We did that with tonight's fake! It was great. We never got a replacement, but it didn't matter. The fake was never with the rest of us anyway. If everyone this it would help the problem a lot. But I was surprised, most times people just muddle along.